"Should Christians in debt tithe?"

"ConTXT" Q&A session at Good Shepherd in Charlotte, NC (www.gsumc.org)
For more resources and videos, check out jmsmith.org

[@winks478]

Tithing has made a huge difference in our families life, we don't dare not tithe. This act of giving is God honoring.

[@jehovahuponyou]

+Tina Hast GOOD ON YOU TINA!

[@markdaniello4922]

dare not tithe,like something is going to be with held by not tithing.there's that your under a curse line which has scared so many into giving to these false teachers,because they say you're robbing God.and the curse was that the rains would be with held.Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the law.Don't listen to this give to get and the bull that you won't have health and success if you don't tithe.Our Lord does not operate this way.Very carnal thinking.People if God, beware

[@winks478]

ok

[@kirkbrown2147]

Why not call it offering. The problem today esp with tithes is that it makes the giver feel like they have done enough or feel like you're in right standing with God. I'm not against giving we should give generously to God's word but God doesn't expect us to empty our piggy banks. You got blessed not because you gave tithes but because God is faithful. We can't earn God's blessings because of the tithes we give.

[@rainycat2300]

Tina, you are still under the law. "The modern practice of church tithing is not supported by the teachings of scripture. Church tithing began in the late nineteenth century when a Wesleyan Church in Cincinnati hosted multiple fund-raising events to erase its enormous debt. Fledgling on the brink of bankruptcy and devoid of options, a layman came up with the idea of, “storehouse tithing.” It was an instant success and soon the news spread like wildfire throughout Christendom and the practice of storehouse tithing caught on. At the time, it seemed the answer to the debts and financial woes of churches whose church members gave indiscriminately." www.bibleanswerstand.org/QA_tithe.htm

[@kirkbrown2147]

All this talk about tithes or not to tithes, at the end of the day don't be stingy giving back when you can. The church still need our financial support. Give from your heart no matter how little you can give.

[@UceScooter]

That's what people fail to consider and especially if they say they are living in God then they should see this and it be no problem. When we look at churches now especially megachurches like Joel osteen church, they always preach about tithe and prosperity and if people tithe and give this or that they will do well. But do we see those people having it well? Do they have a fraction of what those preachers have? I'm not saying you shouldn't give to God in some form or money but regularly giving your money when you're in need yourself cause debt or low income or definitely physical and health issues that may take services at the hospital and doctor and we know how much that will cost. It's a mixed bag here that I think alot of people get misunderstood and misinterpreted. I believe that you should tithe but I think it's more important that your relationship with God and your joy in giving is more accurate cause maybe if you tithe and you dont do it in joy and your relationship with God is not strong then maybe tithing is void anyway because remember to those who want to bring up only old testament scripture is that God did NOT accept all tithe so we should be more concerned about our relationship with God and repentance and being changed from sin more. Tithing is not because of the pastor telling you or just cause the church its supposed to be about faithfulness to serving and trusting God but I guess it depends on if people really have a relationship with God to know that convanant and commitment.

[@rainycat2300]

This is truth, but this is also true: "The modern practice of church tithing is not supported by the teachings of scripture. Church tithing began in the late nineteenth century when a Wesleyan Church in Cincinnati hosted multiple fund-raising events to erase its enormous debt. Fledgling on the brink of bankruptcy and devoid of options, a layman came up with the idea of, “storehouse tithing.” It was an instant success and soon the news spread like wildfire throughout Christendom and the practice of storehouse tithing caught on. At the time, it seemed the answer to the debts and financial woes of churches whose church members gave indiscriminately." www.bibleanswerstand.org/QA_tithe.htm

[@tiredofchurchs7407]

good video. good thing you are more educated that hagee, jakes, and all the folks on TBN combined. you are sincere.

[@mamapleaseloveme777]

Thank you Eric for your response so glad that you were able to listen to the video we must continue to expose these greedy preachers and warn the innocent victims

[@AJTramberg]

I agree with this, I also don't think this is an excuse to go get into more debt. I struggled with this. I came to understand that (for me) I needed to be out of debt in order to be able to give with a cheerful heart rather than with anxiety, and to be obedient to "owe no man anything". I also came to understand that if I wasn't going to do sacrificial giving for a season, I better be doing some sacrificial paying off of debt. This means giving up things in order to pay that debt off as fast as I can. How much more can we glorify God and be a light when we can help those around us through giving? I struggled giving while watching church offerings going to construct elaborate stage props, video/production wizardry, and never-ending building projects. I think there needs to be a balance. Many churches seem to be growing for the sake of growing. They spend millions packaging the gospel in a worldly wrapper that is palatable to people that wouldn't go to church otherwise....get them to say the sinner's prayer, but never disciple them to truly repent, fill them with the hyper grace message, collect their tithes, build another campus....rinse, repeat.

[@boogerbuckstex]

Read what the tithing law says, not what preachers tell you. Deut. chapter 14 makes it clear only farmers and ranchers were supposed to tithe, and only off of agricultural produce. Greedy preachers deliberately use fear of sinning against the Holy spirit to pry cash out of Christians! As Peter said, may their money be damned with them!"

[@manderbos]

Actually, when the Israelite's tithed they did not have to tithe the best or most perfect animals. Perfect animals were only for sacrifice. Read Duet. 14 and you will see that after they brought in the grain, animals, oil, wine, fruits etc. God told them to eat it. Eat the tithe in the spirit of celebration with the Levites. On the third year they were to give 1/10 to the Levites, widow, fatherless and poor.THIS was the storehouse. In the N.T Paul says to give as each man settles in his heart.

[@chesterjade7630]

Thank you Tithes is not for Christians in the New Testament. In many churches the members, some of them need help with food, clothing and other things. Besides paying the light bills and the Pastor of a church what are they doing with the money? Back in the day the church was the house of a Christian. People brought things they had need of.

[@SacredSocietyAP]

Exactly!! Tithing is crop and animal sacrifice. In fact, you had to live in Israel, own land, and be a farmer to pay a tithe. Jesus himself was not allowed to pay a tithe.

[@Nameless44420]

Oh this was so good.. This just answered my qiestion, not about tithing because I tithe as a sacrifice unto God. This helped me understand giving to certain ppl in my life that I feel I've beem enabling. I thought i was to give when this person always asks like the scriptures tell us to but what I didn't take notice of was that I should teach this particular person in my life to fish instead of giving them the fish all the time. Thank You Lord for revelation here. Amen

[@PatriciaBurns]

When a Jew faithfully tithes the LORD will open the windows of heaven pouring out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive it. (Mal.3:10, Prov.3:9-10) It is a requirement for Jews to tithe; the church of God (1 Cor.10:32) is the “cheerful giver” as the giver has purposed in his own heart. (2 Cor.9:7-8, Prov.22:9)

[@SweetSoundOfStrings]

Awesome!

[@fabfab5450]

When I had a job, I tithed and gave generous offerings. We had purchased a house, my daughter started college, and we had other bills. Then, I lost my job due to no fault of my own.....my contract was breached. We are now living on one income and it's difficult for us to tithe because groceries, gasoline, and money for college is expensive. I paid my tithes, but still ended up in this situation.

[@cocojr310]

please try to study tithing so that you will know the truth. Tithing was only command for the people of Israel and it was only supposed to come out of the land of Israel.and tithing was always food not money! And you were supposed to eat it only in the temple in Israel. And this is also connected to Jesus he is our tithe now he is the bread that came down from heaven! This is why the disciple never talk about tithing! And also when you tied you become very proud and you look down on those that do not tied. This is why tithing is not for us Christians today. And another reason is that there is no temple in Jerusalem. If you want to find out more all you have to do is ask a Jew you are going to see the reaction in disbelief and laughter

[@ImAChristianFirst]

+Shanta Webb I agree with Johnny. Notice the wording in the Bible. It never says money. It speaks of the production of land. Deuteronomy 13- “You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year." The problem with money is trade isn't always balanced. Some years you get a lot of money for something and in others you don't get near as much. However, your expenses are still the same. Should you give more or less in those situations? The reality is directly responsible for the fruit of the land. He causes the crops to grow. He enables the animals to become fruitful and multiply. He was asking his people to tithe out of that which he has already provided. He wasn't asking them to tithe from the income of their jobs. Money wasn't even used when the tithe was proposed.

[@shns3ma]

Johnny Rosa I totally agree with you. I am so glad that I picked up the word of God and started studying on tithing and also my mom really shed light on that subject. We were always taught wrong and the majority of pastors know that people are going to believe every word that comes out of their mouth. My mom and I live in a predominantly Jewish area and she had a conversation with a Jew and he told her the same thing, that they do not tithe. When she told him that people were tithing in this day, he also laughed in disbelief.

[@daniellebennett7109]

These men are great. I thank you

[@sewregi2850]

Tithing was to support the High Priest. After Jesus died he became our High Priest. Hebrews 7:12 "For when the priesthood is changed, the Law must be changed as well". Jesus never asked for tithing but to love one another as ourselves and love God above all. Give willingly if you can but we are not under "obligation" of the Mosaic Law.

[@lyndapeoples8127]

The church has responsibilities that they have to pay for. Where do you think the pastor's salary comes from and other Church staff? What about the expenses of the church?

[@samueloforikwakye6928]

@@lyndapeoples8127 offerings my dear, offerings and not tithes.

[@MrRVasquez7265]

The apostle Paul writes, let each man give according to his own income, without coercion and with a cheerful heart. Nowhere in the New Testament is tithing commanded. We must help the poor and the needy in the church/community when we can. Our own household is our first ministry... It's sad that so many preachers use old testament tithing laws to corrupt God's church with the health & wealth prosperity message.

[@mauricewilsondaddybob1307]

Could it be because we do not follow Paul's teaching on 2nd Timothy 2:15 When did the Lord change the tithing method from foods to a money system?

[@nomatusi7514]

Tithe was a 7 cycles cycle. the 7th year people did not tithe because they let the land stay idle. 3rd and 6th year they had a festival tithe. Present day tithe is a scam.......kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWPXeIB_oteGjbc

[@michaelmerck7576]

It still hasn't happened

[@bradtaylor1093]

Shouldn't ever be in debt. Put 10% to 25% away first to pay for giving and tithing. Put 25% away for investments. Put 25% away for daily living and 25% for house debt or house savings. Smarter to invest an extra 25% for a few years then just buy a house honestly I think that's what God prefers. But I am buying a house soon with only 20% saved up... But, I'm buying a house with cheaper mortgage payment then rent payment. So I am very blessed. God would not of opened such a door had it not been for my 10 to 25% tithing and giving I feel. Very blessed. And if u don't have a full time job that offers the salary u are worth, then don't get off your knees, till God has met your needs. God bless.

[@bradvincent2586]

brad taylor you actually sound like you know what you’re talking about experientially. I live in CA where the minimum for a mortgage payment is 2500 per month. According to you (and Dave Ramsey!) I shouldn’t get that house until I make at least 10k a month. Even then, after taxes, tithing, housing, and investing, I would have $1,000 to live on. Even though I’d be making $10k. I’m majoring in engineering but I won’t be anywhere near that much for a long time. So do I really just pray until God gives me more money? I don’t have clarity in my heart about this.

[@mathetees]

Tithing is a lie constructed by men and was never commanded by Jesus or any of the apostles, fact. Tithing was never money in the OT. We are to give, but never ordered to tithe, the tithe is a lie of those who serve mammon. Those who do not work but should not eat..hmmm, this is ironic to point that out.. what would Paul say to the Pastor who calls what he is doing work, in the office a few hours a day, a few hours preaching, a few phone calls, and living large off the sheep...yet Paul tells us he had a vocation other than preaching and was not a burden...

[@janieluna5017]

Tithing is practiced in churches, however, the Feasts which are also in the Old Testament are NOT observed?

[@achiepalaago]

That is a very wrong question. Christians don't have to tithe period, talk about Christians in debt.

[@njabuloncube1538]

Exactly

[@nancylakot8139]

Here you speak. Mmmm.....just tell that satan to get behind u

[@mizlovesdee]

If tithing belongs to the church pastor, then He should step down from being a leader and play the role of the levite which is to whom the tithes belong to. And which role is cleaning up, set up and take down of the temple, guard the temple, etc etc....

[@sweetsugar1014]

Yes, sister. There's a combination. You have greedy preachers, then you also have ignorant legalistic preachers, scared preachers (scared that if they don't continue to SCARE the people by preaching the 'TITHE OR DIE' gospel, then they won't be able to pay for their church building and be embarrassed! Then some know the truth but are scared to change what they've been preaching scared the people will sue them for their tithe money back. Please preachers, God will work it out- tell the truth.

[@july4thmaybe]

I was like this speaker on the perspective of tithing. As a teen years ago I read that same passage where Jesus commended tithing and I took it as a directive to tithe, but that was MY perspective. Everyone who reads this passage will not necessarily receive that same idea. But in recent years I have become persuaded that the message of tithing is not a command to the church, even though I remain a faithful tither to this day.

[@kirkbrown2147]

Death GrahamChaser Jesus commended the priest for tithing because they were still under the old law. There tithe wasn't money even though they had money.

[@michaelmerck7576]

Jesus was talking to Jewish people who were under the law

[@persevere344]

Amen

[@silverhorder1969]

Tithing was only commanded in the ot by farmers and ranchers. It was however commanded in jer ch 10 not to bring a christmas tree into your house. I know the bible doesn't refer to it as a Christmas tree. However it is where the pagen practice started from. It is traditions of men taught as commandments of God. And in that day they will say to me, Lord have we not worked many miracles and cast out deamons in your name? And the Lord will say depart from me you workers of LAWLESSNESS!

[@DS-uo5ie]

Bring your fruits and vegetables to the altar!

[@grubeci]

Giving to a mega church does seem wasteful....judas' as your heart and spirit..directs.

[@mycharmedunicorn8715]

What bothers me is the tithe money grab scared me away from church as a young Mother because I didn’t have 10% to pay the church. So, I quit taking my children to church 😢. That is so sad churches chase away young people with children who need God desperately.

[@nomatusi7514]

Present day tithe is a scam that was started by Roman Catholic Church in 777 AD. It is a false doctrine. Look for a Church that does not demand tithe. Please watch Kevin Ewing or KZbin or this pastor. You will be set free from slavery of tithe. The explain very clearly what tithe is.......kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWPXeIB_oteGjbc

[@ryanriego2473]

In the same boat... thinking of leaving church... not because of tithing itself but the guilt they make you feel when you don’t tithe consistently.

[@alaskanmom2659]

If your church demands a tithe then I’d find another church. I’d also look to your finances and see what you could cut to give to your local church! I was a single mom of 3 making $7.50 an hour and I wouldn’t just give 10% I’d give more and the Lord Blessed me so much! My gas would last longer, my bills would be lower, etc. I found it a true blessing to give way more then I thought I could. I had a small mortgage payment, utility bills, insurance, etc while raising 3 kids on that tiny income and man, God was faithful to take care of us! I also volunteered at my church a lot while giving. It’ll change your life if you do it with a cheerful heart wanting to give.

[@paul3441]

Please show me the verses that say we must give sacrifficially because I don't find them in the N.T. God desires mercy and obedience, not sacrifice.

[@katherinewilliams1875]

Tithing was never money. It was crops and herds. It was under the law. It was only for Israel in the land of Israel. Christians are to give as they purpose in their hearts. We should not be tithing. We can’t tithe biblically. It’s impossible.

[@MustaffaCuppa]

@blueskunk12 Sorry my friend, I think I misunderstood your earlier comment. I am just so fed up with folks being misled by the heretical teaching of tithing money. :-)

[@FISTINHAND]

God commanded in the old testament that only edible things be given for the tithe. God also specifically commanded in the old testament that money was not to be given for the tithe. The Bible now tells us we as Christians are to give FREE WILL OFFERINGS according to what we are able to give and with a willing heart to give as followers of Jesus. To preach giving money for the tithe now is preaching to disobey God's own commandments from the Bible old testament, and is in fact still placing us under the old laws and denying that Jesus fulfilled the laws for us and telling us we are not under the Grace of Christ it seems, and also seems to be preaching that the laws did not change because of Jesus and that Jesus did not fulfill the law and that God did not annul the law. But it is written in Hebrews Chapter 7 of the Bible that these things happened. The Bible tells us that if we try to practice any of the old laws then we must do them all and that because we are unable to do them all that then you shall remain under the old curses and you shall not be under the Grace of Jesus, do you understand this or not ? Further, if these tithing preaching ministers tell us we must still give a tithe to obey the law of giving why then do they not preach all of the laws of giving that God commanded such as giving money each year according to your age and gender, and all the rest, etc., they do not preach those laws of giving at all ! They do not preach the whole Bible, just pick and choose, also why do they not preach Hebrews Chapter 7 ? If they want to follow the old laws then why do they not have a stone alter in church and wear all white clothing and cut the throats of animals in church and wipe the blood on the alter and wipe the blood on their white clothing, and cut the fat from the animals and burn it in church for an incense for God as the Bible describes how things were done, why not if they want to follow the old ways ? It seems to me they are telling you to disobey the Bible and God by giving money for the tithe ! Give money as FREE WILL OFFERINGS to support your church you go to naturally, but any money you give is not a tithe according to the Bible and God's commandments ! I have even heard a Rabbi say that giving money for the tithe was never done, that this is something some Christians ministers have made up.

[@Sensiblehuman]

When the Israelites left Egypt they were unorganized and without a government (gov't) - a perfect setup for total anarchy. Moses, under the auspices of God, established a system of governance (albeit a theocracy). Gov't(s) appoint state officials (Levitical priesthood) and hire workers from its citizenry (Levite tribe). A taxation system (tithing) supports this gov't. Tithing also pays for a gov't-run welfare system which provides for widows, orphans, and strangers. Is today's Church a Gov't?

[@lokawidu]

The 12 Apostles never donated TITHES to the Temple of God which still stood in Jerusalem until 70 years AD -during this time TITHES r still paid to the temple of God. Why ? because they were not spreading the Old Covenant but the good news of GOSPEL if they paid tithes to the Temple it means they dig the old grave of the Covenant where the lamb offering is not acceptable to God anymore n that also means they deny the Resurrection of Jesus Christ as the Lamb of God..

[@IvanTraylor]

Here is something practical for those who want a fresh view on giving to the church. Churches can't survive with people throwing a few dollars in the offering plate. In my view, if you don't want to give a substantial, set amount, then you need to be going to a house church - and there is nothing wrong with that. As far as tithing goes, there is a little known fact that some pastors don't want brought up and it is this, most of the respected translations before 1900 translated Luke 18:12 as "I give tithes of all I POSSESS", not "I give tithes of all I EARN." There is a subtle but important difference here for people struggling with their finances. When someone struggling financially tithes off actual possessions (described in the powerpoint and calculated in the spreadsheet below), their tithed contribution is often anywhere from a fifth to a quarter of what the 'income' tithe expects. For those who just want to teach 'spirit led, sacrificial giving', I don't know how practical that is for churches that are trying to consistently pay their bills. This is an important mission for me because many Christians are dutifully paying their tithes and not being able to pay off their debts or saving for the future and they need to know that - if they insist on tithing - that the possession tithe is a completely scriptural way to calculate what to give. Another reason this is important to me is that it undercuts those preachers who are greedy and are taking advantage of either soaking the poor in their congregation or so shaming them with the "robbing God" teaching that they leave the church. It is widely known that many pastors will do this purposefully to get rid of the freeloaders in their congregation. What we need are pastors who, for all of our sakes - and especially the kingdom's, focus more on us being good stewards of what God has given us and less on how much of our income they can rake into 'their' kingdom. For goodness sakes, why would a pastor who is wedded to the 'income' tithe but who claims to support family, ever suggest that women stay home to educate their children under God's authority, when it could cripple his church financially? Have you read the statistics on young adults maintaining their faith when home schooled vs institution schooled? Maybe you should. Please see the files below. Even if you don't believe in tithing, perhaps you can help those who do to be able to better care for their families and pay their bills while still satisfying God's commands. Short Presentation on Possession Tithe docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Sk-M8R35-_nI38v9U-zwqCiR3QzelwefRSeKQtxHVdI/edit?usp=docslist_api Spreadsheet to Calculate Possession Tithe docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/108NS5YwKclTH4DqS2t2qZarqZhK91QASU0Kb7FQbsNQ/edit?usp=docslist_api For an Article explaining the Importance of Possession Tithing: docs.google.com/document/d/1XMR4OOM4s3KcjsN-H3aoO0Jd8VwGo4cLq4A8--CLbic/edit?usp=sharing

[@markdaniello4922]

Christians are not commanded to tithe

[@IvanTraylor]

+Mark Daniello, they don't have to Mark, but many feel compelled to contribute because they feel that it helps support God's ministers, his work, and those in need. I truly believe that.

[@IvanTraylor]

It is fine to try to push freewill giving - but you are NEVER going to get through to people who sit in their congregations week after week while their pastors read what God says about not bringing the tithe into the storehouse. The way to financially rescue many believers who lack wealth is to teach the very Biblical concept of the POSSESSION tithe. It is going to be a very affordable way to give for folks who are struggling. Anywhere from a 1/4 to a 1/5 of the income tithe. The end effect of teaching people not to tithe at all is people giving next to nothing to their churches. Is that what you really want? To teach people to be freeloaders? Again, want to avoid tithing? - be a member of a house church. But if you are going to enjoy a beautiful church, awesome worship, and passionate preaching, you should be willing to contribute something significant to the church's finances - more than just a couple of dollars here and there. Look, I can't stand the curse teaching preachers either. I think the truth is that many of those who preach INCOME tithing hard don't want the poor in their congregations so they are going to force the poor to give way beyond their means, and when they can't, chase them out the door by telling them they are robbing from God. I'm telling you - possession tithing would put an end to this business because the poor can actually afford to pay it and they are actually tithing. Check it Out! Short Presentation on Possession Tithe docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Sk-M8R35-_nI38v9U-zwqCiR3QzelwefRSeKQtxHVdI/edit?usp=docslist_api Spreadsheet to Calculate Possession Tithe docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/108NS5YwKclTH4DqS2t2qZarqZhK91QASU0Kb7FQbsNQ/edit?usp=docslist_api For an Article explaining the Importance of Possession Tithing: docs.google.com/document/d/1XMR4OOM4s3KcjsN-H3aoO0Jd8VwGo4cLq4A8--CLbic/edit

[@grubeci]

not under the law..above the love

[@lokawidu]

give till it hurts ??? what do u mean ?

[@guillermoquintero2292]

I am on SSI, and my wife is too, so should we give one tenth of our income or is that only for workers?

[@npzwane9331]

Please don't tithe at all. If you tithe you have subjected yourself to the old Testament and you must obey all the Old Testament Laws (Galatians 5:3); and after that you are cut off from Christ (Galatians 5: 4). Don't bring to nothing the sufferings of Christ. He suffered a lot to redeem us from the Law (of Moses)

[@nomatusi7514]

12 reasons you should not tithe.........kzbin.info/www/bejne/haXJZHejaraLY6c

[@michaelmerck7576]

No one is obligated to tithe money to a church

[@lokawidu]

yes sure, if u ask how wud it be to fall from 3 stories building surely u never know how. which verse of Bible tell us to give tithes till it hurts ?

[@RoseSharon7777]

Give what you want cheerfully. Tithing is a lie for NT believers. The church has never provided for those amongst us who are hurt because the money goes into their slimey pockets.

[@rainycat2300]

Very little, if any, goes to the poor in most of these churches. "The modern practice of church tithing is not supported by the teachings of scripture. Church tithing began in the late nineteenth century when a Wesleyan Church in Cincinnati hosted multiple fund-raising events to erase its enormous debt. Fledgling on the brink of bankruptcy and devoid of options, a layman came up with the idea of, “storehouse tithing.” It was an instant success and soon the news spread like wildfire throughout Christendom and the practice of storehouse tithing caught on. At the time, it seemed the answer to the debts and financial woes of churches whose church members gave indiscriminately." www.bibleanswerstand.org/QA_tithe.htm

[@lyndapeoples8127]

K Day..you have a nasty attitude and what you said is not true. You're not in all churches and you don't know what you're talking about. Don't lie.

[@lyndapeoples8127]

@@rainycat2300 ... I don't think that's when Church tithing began but you are wrong when you talk about very few churches give to the poor. I'm glad that our church is not one of those churches that you are talking about about. You need to be more knowledgeable about these things.

[@rainycat2300]

Lynda, first you say I'm wrong when I say very few churches give to the poor; then you say you're glad your church is not one of the churches I'm talking about. Those two statements contradict each other. Am I wrong about that too??? Think about it, dear. However; it's not what I said to begin with. Have a blessed weekend!!

[@rainycat2300]

@@lyndapeoples8127, please read what I actually said. It's not what you said I said. Read it again carefully. I said, "Very little, if any, goes to the poor in most of these churches."

[@sweetsugar1014]

Preachers have made the blood sacrifice of JESUS of non effect when they preach that if members DON'T tithe they won't be healed, saved, blessed, happy, or even go to heaven. Where does SALVATION come in then? Most preachers do teach that if you're in DEBT- STILL give tithes. One preacher said he wouldn't pray for you in ICU (hospital) if you're not a tither. WOW!!! THIS is EVIL! Wake up Christians! God don't need you bound, depressed, suicidal, miserable- as long as He's getting your tithe.

[@allensagalla1579]

Yes, I recently had a discussion with a preacher who thought that I was not saved because I didn't tithe, sad :-(

[@Marksnotebook]

NO one does not have to tithe. Its good but remember the widow's might? And remember the meaning behind what she gave? Its what is within the heart that counts and giving means many things.

[@kirkbrown2147]

Marksnotebook The widow's mite is not a good example. It wasn't tithe she was paying she gave an offering. She most likely gave from lack of knowledge. She was exempt from giving because of her poverty.

[@michaelmerck7576]

The meaning of the widows mite was the church should not force widows to give all they have and die

[@brothacarllovesjesus]

Type A or B. When Jesus Christ told the Pharisees and Scribes, “Ye pay tithe…these ought ye to have done,” Was Jesus Christ, the Pharisees and Scribes in, A. The Law B. Grace

[@LukeReed627]

OK, he won't tell you so I'll tell you - I don't think you should give your money away to other wealthy people (church ministers don't tend to be poor :-) ) period - but giving your money away whilst in debt is INSANE...

[@beedip84]

corin.9 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. Could you please explain this text for me? What is paul speaking about here?

[@Snowdog856]

where does it say in the new testament about sacrificial giving. it says give from the heart not where it hurts. if giving where it hurts is in the new testament please show me and i will stand corrected. far as i understand it Jesus says we are to give from the heart a love offering with a happy heart giving where it hurts does not create a happy heart and 10% or tithe no longer is the law so if you think you are tithing you are not. the word tithe means 10 not 9 not 11 but 10. stop preaching tithe is no longer thats true but then turn around with a guilt trip and say we still give till it hurts thats not biblical. Yes I am a Christian and yes I read the Bible.

[@augustinaalves7009]

Dave Conn amen

[@cynthiameans]

The tithe and the offering are two different things. God has told us to Tithe and make offerings. The tenth or tithe is mentioned many times in the bible. This is a simple answer and doesn't need a long drawn out answer. People don't want to tithe b/c they don't want part with the 10%.

[@humbleservant3891]

let me ask you this...if tithing was given to us in the law of moses...why did Abraham give tithes before the Law? (Genesis 14:20)

[@michaelmerck7576]

Not even relevant

[@humbleservant3891]

@@michaelmerck7576 how so?

[@J_a_s_o_n]

Tithing doesn't stop because of any factors. May the Lord give you understanding.

[@michaelmerck7576]

Tithing money never started

[@lokawidu]

to b a christian doesnt entitled u to any richess that u hv to b rich - not at all during the Apostles time St Peter has assigned some people to take care of the poor believers so they may receive donation. HalleluYah

[@josephdezordi]

Well said MustaffaCuppa & Eric , this is deceptive miss use of scripture, and imposition of a new legalism.

[@r13680]

What can you say about those testimonies of people who claim that they were taken by Jesus to heaven and hell, and Jesus showed to them Christians burning in hell for not tithing?

[@allensagalla1579]

It's hard to prove.

[@lengynorwood9830]

Tithing is perpetual you never stop. Giving is what you purpose in your heart or what the Holy Spirit led giving tells you to do. Just because Yeshua/Jesus had not resurrected does not mean Tithing stopped Matthew 23:23 Luke 11:42 key word is Ought to do.

[@michaelmerck7576]

Tithing money never began

[@michaelmerck7576]

Key word us who Jesus was talking to

[@janicelloyd3215]

Tithe if you are able.

[@lokawidu]

if you live during the early church of the 12 Apostles where the Temple of God still stood in Jerusalem, u shall understand why the Apostles never impose tithes to fellow believers because If the Apostles impose tithes to the believers then the Levit priests n the whole Israelites in jerusalem shall stone them to death as that wasn't their right to do so n they shall be punished by the Jewish Law.

[@janiesherwood2482]

No

[@beedip84]

you are correct my friend, widow received tithes and it was in fact folks who grew crops and raised livestock that were required to tithe. In our day the same rule applies. The church take care of the poor and the widows and it only people who receive and income from their work/businesses are required to tithe. Question, Why did Jesus commended the Jewish leaders tithing, and added they did well by tithing but neglected the weightier part or the law like love and mercy?

[@mamapleaseloveme777]

I totally agree with ericjaynelson on this whole subject it's a shame these preachers use the scriptures regarding false tithes God does meet our needs through Unity n the Spirit I have a relative who is obsessed with any prosperity preacher she sends thousands of dollars 2 their ministries waiting for God 2 return millions 2 her she profess 2 B a Christian yet she is more dangerous than a rattlesnake at least with a rattler it will warn before striking see my youtube THE GOSPEL MONEY GREED CALL

[@breakfastbuddy63]

who said anything about sacrificial giving , that is a loophole , read 2 cor 9:7

[@beedip84]

I am getting some sense out of what your are saying, but paul here is saying just as you have read in the OT that those who minister about holy things (priests in OT) live of the things of the temple? Even so Go ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel... meaning we no longer carry out temple rituals but we preach the gospel so we to should live of the gospel, as those OT priests used to. so No more" Levities" in the temple but preachers preaching the Gospel.

[@kirkbrown2147]

Ronnie wilson if everyone gives 10% in today's world the pastors would be rich lol. Seriously in these times it's different than in Paul's time. In Paul's time they didn't have mega churches they worshipped in homes mostly. Now the churches want to be bigger and bigger. I don't mind supporting the pastor's ministry but I have a problem with churches making big fancy buildings when they could use that money and do outreach.

[@beedip84]

you are welcome to tithe in food for the ministers if you want. And how is the sacrificial system tied into tithing? Tithing was there way before there ever was a Jewish nation. Abraham was the first man in the bible to tithe. So how is that relevant to tie in with making burnt sacrifices again? But if you want to give what you want it's up to you. you can bring a donkey to the well but you can't make it drink, and i mean "Donkey" in ever sense of the word.

[@kirkbrown2147]

Ronnie wilson Abraham tithes once but he have alot of sacrifices

[@adeliag5303]

I think it is a priviledge to help those that genuinely deserve it, not those who are freeloading. That's not what Jesus is saying. Let your generosity extend for the needs of others. NOT THE LUXURY of the pastors

[@wellingtonsingh1501]

In today’s churches Preachers be came Capitalists because of of Tithing is this what Jesus died for,People read your Bible and don’t listen to these prosperity preachers The Lord is concern about how you live your life in Christ Jesus with honesty and integrity not about your tithes it’s important to give only in offerings tithing was for the jews not for Gentiles.

[@michaelmerck7576]

Tithing money is not a thing

[@josephgilbert8978]

Debt or no debt it does not change Gods word...simply always tithe!

[@npzwane9331]

The topic on tithes is long settled: no tithing under grace. Even yourself brother can not point to any single verse or practice after the death and resurrection of Christ that point towards tithing. I challenge you on this: Abraham tithed once in his lifetime. The tithe was not from his income but from spoils of war. Jacob never paid any tithes. He only made a promise to pay a tenth to God if God made him successful in his journey. Therefore there was a condition to paying meaning that there was no requirement or expectation on Jacob to pay the 10 percent. The requirement is only found in Leviticus. The book of Malachi which is used to rob Christians is a book of the Old Testament. Even then God was not talking to the entire tribe of Israel. He was just speaking to the Priests who were robbing Him of the tithes which were bought by the people. The Commandment "Bring all the tithes to the storehouse" is clearly directed to the Priests who were robbing God! Without making this conversation long tell me to provide scripture on any point I have made and I will gladly do so. The first point I may like to prove is why I say that the Commandment was directed to Priests not to the whole nation of Israel.

[@josephgilbert8978]

@@npzwane9331 No challenge my distinguished friend...you win...but I'm still tithing. Touché! 😀

[@npzwane9331]

@@josephgilbert8978 Hooray. The truth has won! But in all honesty brother It's my first time I hear someone refusing to be given verses that will make him to know Christ more. It's my first time to see someone professing Christ refusing to defend what he believes when the bible orders us to be ready to defend what we believe in humility. In fact Paul made sure that, apart from preaching the Gospel, he engaged those who preached a different gospel from his and proving to them why they are wrong. But I am little bit suspicious that you know the truth and the verses and that you are in fact a tithe collector and you are afraid all the lies on tithes will lay bare for all the plundered sheep to see if you ever try to discuss this topic. And you will be out of pocket 😂😂. But since this conversation is on the public domain I feel indebted to everyone reading this to validate my assertions with scripture. And I will be brief. To you brother there in no need to read the following text because it is not intended for you but to those who want to seek the truth. Over and above what I have said on tithes, in Malachi Chapter 1 God is speaking to the whole nation of Israel (Malachi 1:1) including the Priests (Malachi 1:6 ( the last sentence)) Malachi Chapter 2 and 3 is clearly a commandment directed to Priests (read Malachi 2:1). God here has finished talking to the Nation of Israel. Again God's Commandment in Chapter 3:10 is "Bring all the tithes into the storehouse". The question is 'to whom is this commandment directed'? Now it was the duty of the Levites to bring the tithes into the storehouse. (Nehemiah 10:38). God will never in Malachi tell all the nation of Israel to bring the tithes into the storehouse when it was not their duty to do so. Clearly therefore the Lord was talking to the Levites/Priests. It boggles one's mind therefore as to why we are now told to obey a commandment which was and may not be directed to us. The conclusion is that God never accused us of robbing Him or commanded us to bring tithes into the storehouse since every commandment in Chapter two and three of Malachi is directed to the Priests and Levites. Yes we know that God accused the Priests and Levites of robbing him because they were collecting the tithes and appropriating everything and not remitting to the storehouse the 10 percent of the tithes, known as the heave offering or the tithe of the tithes, into the storehouse so that there was food in God's house (read Numbers 18:26). So that widows, the orphans and the poor may eat. On the tithes in general I may add that tithes consist of those things which God created, mainly agricultural products. These are the things which belong to God hence it is said tithes are the Lord's. Tithes were and are still not money. God never created or made money. Neither does He own money making machines. Money is made by man and belongs to the man who makes that particular money. This is the man whose picture appears on the money. The picture is of the person who made it or under whose instruction it was made. These people (whose picture appears on the money) collect taxes in the form of money. Remember that Jesus after asking whose picture was on that coin, after He was told that it was Caesar's, He said render to caesar that which belongs to Caesar and to God that which belongs to God. In other words He said 'give Caesar the money which he made and owns and God that which He made and owns. " Take note that money was never allowed as tithes although money was present at the time of the Old Testament. In Deuteronomy 14: 24-27 God commands that where the Temple was so far away that it was not easily possible to arrive with the tithes whilst still fresh the people may exchange their tithes for money. Even then that money was not allowed as tithes. It was used to throw a big party where the Levites were invited. There is no verse which says now money may be given as tithes. What you do now is giving God that which belongs to Caesar! And of course He does not accept it. Moreover the Commandment that people must pay tithes is part of the Law of Moses which went away when the Old Testament gave way to the gospel of grace. I hope that you are properly guided although I left out too much information hoping that you will seek clarity and the relevant verses where I left them out. Peace brother

[@josephgilbert8978]

@@npzwane9331 Dude...I am living my Christian life according to the Bible...If you are bothered by how I choose to live my life, that's your problem and counseling could help you hopefully. I don't want to entertain your futile empty argument over a disagreement...live your life...live and let live. Yes this is a public chat...you could write a book about your grande knowledge against the tithing belief and make money off it and stop "Challenging" people to contests...Jesus won and is First in everything...refusing your challenge was wise.

[@michaelmerck7576]

God never told anyone to tithe their wages

[@DeDe-ts7yw]

Christians should not tithe at all. That was a command for those in Israel producing agricultural products. Christians should only give as purposed in their hearts and not of necessity.

[@lokawidu]

what kinda lie r u trying to say i dont mind if people give donation to church but they should not b requested to tithe, St Paul made money as tentmaker with aquila n priscilla `n never pay tithe, repent u or u'll b judged by the Law of Torah.

[@lyndapeoples8127]

Nobody else will be honest enough to speak about it so I'm going to do it. The reason a lot of people don't want to tithe is because they're stingy and they don't want to give and not only do they not tithe but they are also very stingy in giving!

[@ChannelOfChampions1977]

Tithe so your pastor can buy a bigger house

[@evelynsierra2004]

Malachi 3:8

[@lankwon5378]

To be blessed beyond your wildest dreams for tithing, you must tithe AND believe God's promises to bless you tremendously for tithing. God will keep his word. Believe...tremendous blessings. Send donations to Lan Kwon, 2106 Cobble Creek Dr., Houston, Texas 77073 and make checks out to Lan Kwon. Send monthly donations.

[@siennaclover8054]

Notice that these two didn't give not one scripture. They didn't stay on the subject. Beware of anyone who doesn't back up what they say with scripture.

[@beedip84]

You do good by saying We are Stewards, meaning we don't own what we have or gain but rather manage it for someone. That is the dictionary's definition. And if you are managing for someone i think it's common sense to know that you have to present they a percentage to them. The lord is so generous he gives us 90% and requires only 10% of what he has entrusted us with. Its in the new testament. heb 7:5-9. are we so stingy that we now have a problem RETURNING the Lord's tithes? Study!

[@AGirlNamedVan]

Lol wolves

[@lharmon7778]

You can not afford Not to tithe

[@beedip84]

my friend i hate this topic for one particular reason, it show the true character of so called Christians. Again and again the same arguments about tithing, when in fact it just shows how stingy and greedy we are. don't you know those who preach the gospel must live off the gospel? even so God has ordained. Paul said. To you what does that mean? And please let us discuss and not argue, because i don't argue bible. God's people should be civil.

[@michaelmerck7576]

Just because people don't want to pay the man-made money tithe doesn't mean they are against being a generous giver

[@ShoutItFromTheHousetops]

Wow...the man on right has a nervous tic. A sign that he’s uncomfortable with this subject because he knows he’s leading Gods ppl into a false doctrine.

[@jamesmichael7]

This is by far my favorite negative comment I've ever received. Such discernment! Haha

[@joennjala1666]

Tithing is why so many Christians are in debt!

[@borisndum1849]

I am à Pastor and Missionary in a foreign country, I and my wife give to God 40% of our income for over 15 years and we are not in dents.

[@joennjala1666]

@@borisndum1849 If tithing fails just one person I would question it, it has failed many if you cant afford to do something you are stupid to do it, the church will not help you financially but only care about there finances, I am not required to tithe which was only to be given to a Levite priest so ever Pastor qualifies now? I am still trying to recover from all the lies of sowing seeds and tithing, just stating my facts!

[@cynthiameans]

@@joennjala1666 it sounds as if you have a lot of bitterness in your heart. You're not giving to the Church you're returning the Tithe back to God. Everything you have belongs to God. Your whole being belongs to God. Christians are instructed to Tithe and give Offerings. Tithing is an act of obedience-God has told us to but he's not going to force us. Blessing or Cursing, it's your choice.

[@joennjala1666]

@@cynthiameans You sound like you haven't read all of Malachi and still drinking the kool aid! What I am, is wide awake to the pimping for dollars that go on in these Churches Sunday thru Saturday!

[@kabelosefakwe1540]

Not tithing is the root to debts

[@RoseSharon7777]

Sacrificial generosity IS NOT a NT requirement. Liars! If that were true, then preachers would living in huts like their flock!

[@michaelmerck7576]

You must have never heard of being a generous giver

[@nigelbutlerr7294]

If you are in debt THE CHURCH SHOULD BE GIVING YOU MONEY TO HELP YOU TO BECOME FREE Jesus Christ fulfilled the law for Christians, and nobody should either preach the tithe or do it.

[@shns3ma]

Joe Nemesis you are so right. I totally agree. There are people who will tithe first before they pay their rent/mortgage, they will tithe knowing that their lights are about to be cut off and their kids will go hungry first. That is pure foolishness. But when they fall on hard times and go to the pastor or the board for help, all they will receive is a prayer and denied any financial assistance, but yet and still the pastor is living in a big mansion, driving the best, wearing the best and has all the money he desires. People better wise up, read the Bible , study tithing for themselves and pay their bills because if a member gets evicted, who will help them?

[@nigelbutlerr7294]

Nashela Hargrave yes is it not sad that all Christian parents are educating their kids, with "if a church ever demands ten per cent of your salary , get out of that church and never go back". The TITHING HERESY HAS DRIVEN MILLIONS out of church. these pastors are thieves

[@shns3ma]

You are so right about that. I know a lady was telling me how she joined a church and everytime she looked up, they were begging, begging, begging for money. It seemed as though the more money folks put in, the more they wanted and during services, the church would take up around 6 offerings. Some of these churches will bankrupt you if you allow them to. The church I use to belong to, I highly hold respect for that pastor because he does not believe in taking multiple offerings, and taking advantage of his members. They only take up 1 offering and that church has been paid for since the early 1950s. Those members are very well taken care of, and if you are in need, you are helped tremendously and they reach out to the poor. You don't find too many churches like that. The pastor looks out for all the members and knows each and everyone. He takes people home who do not have a ride and if you are in need of any food or money, he will make sure you have it.