Should F1 Go Back to Watkins Glen?

[@GPLaps]

Being only a ~8 hour drive from the track, and it being an historic venue, I'd love to see it. However, I shudder to think of what the FIA would have to do to her to make it a grade 1 circuit...

[@GreenHornet553]

If the FIA massively disfigured Watkins Glen it would be a sin against Motor Racing

[@chrisk_nfl4120]

It's only a grade 2 circuit, so it's likely the pits change like Aidan recommended (alternatively just extend the current pit straight by a few meters. Or just change the put entry to be similar to Albert Park and on the slight chicane) and/or some safety feature upgrades (change some of the walls and that throw a gravel/tarmac run off on a grass run off). I know the dreaded "grade 1 upgrade" has scared fans into thinking the FIA would massacre a track for safety but they do like to keep the circuits relatively intact with minimal changes. The Glen doesn't need that much changing circuit layout wise, it's very similar to existing F1 circuits. Just a lot of the safety features need upgrading

[@cbrunnem6102]

Don't think it would need too much. The esses would be the one area where runoff would be an issue imo.

[@alexcarolan8825]

"Only an 8 hour drive" Dude I can do a lap or 2 of Ireland in hours lol

[@chrisk_nfl4120]

@@alexcarolan8825 That's the big issue. Most of the time Grade 2 layouts are even safer than some Grade 1s. The main way G2s become G1s is having the facilities in place. Hospitals/Emergency centres near by and adequate logistics. 8 hours from the most likely international airport is pretty extreme. Hence why COTA is being used

[@KaminoCloningOperations]

Okay; a lot to unpack here. Firstly, if F1 were to ever come back to the glen, they'd be using the bus stop chicane. Although a new pit facility would need to be built to support F1 returning, i don't think it would need to be relocated from the front stretch to the back stretch. The great thing about turn one is that its a massively wide corner with a giant runoff section, so starts there would be wild to say the least. But besides that, the only things needed would be to extend certain runoff areas (which they have ample space for), the removal of old Armco barriers and the addition of the modern TecPro barriers F1 currently uses. The great thing about Watkins Glen is that it not only has the historical context, but it has that old school circuit charm. Like the RedBull ring in Austria, its not a destination circuit, people actually go there with the plan to pitch a tent and stay for the weekend. Plus, Watkins Glen is a town that lives and breathes racing. If you've never been to the Glen Motor Inn or the Seneca Lodge, don't argue. Not to mention, it has great travel amenities nearby; Rochester International Airport, Buffalo Airport and a TON of small airports relatively close for all the private jets to taxi out of (Keuka, Binghampton, Elmira). It would be fantastic to have Watkins Glen back on the calendar representing the United States.

[@scottmiller1531]

One word: YES! The "Bus Stop" chicane was indeed added in the early 1990's, after accidents became a huge issue at the end of the straight. The most notable two were an IMSA GTP crash that mangled Tommy Kendall's feet and a NASCAR wreck that saw JD McDuffie lose his life.

[@RRaquello]

Geoff Bodine also got into a wicked crash there in an IROC crash.

[@waylandcool]

Those crashes were about 6 weeks apart in 1991. The Bus Stop was added before the 1992 season.

[@joshuak4372]

The chicane made the GTP cars faster as it brought them back in the power band lol. Davy Jones took the track record the next year

[@lightfeather9953]

@@joshuak4372 that doesn't make sense at all

[@joshuak4372]

@@lightfeather9953 by inserting the chicane they were entering turn 9 (10?) about 10mph faster then before. Davy Jones took the track record in 92. The year it was introduced.

[@TotoDG]

0:24. A- a Steamed Hams reference?! At this time of year, at this time of day, in this part of the internet, localised entirely within your video about F1’s case for returning to Watkins Glen?

[@markoarkaina8656]

Yes!

[@TotoDG]

@@markoarkaina8656. May I see it?

[@mrterp04]

@@TotoDG mmNO

[@AidanMillward]

"Seymour! The house is burning!" "No, mother- That's just another internet meme"

[@TotoDG]

@@AidanMillward. Well, Aidan, you are an odd fellow, but I must say: you make a good video.

[@ZIGAG1999]

i'd love to see f1 return to watkins glen, but i don't want the track to get butchered and become a boring tilkedrome because the track needed changes to suit f1.

[@samuelmcneill1120]

Another problem people seem to forget Watkins Glen is owned and operated by NASCAR. Not sure how welcoming they'd be to F1.

[@ZIGAG1999]

@@samuelmcneill1120 i'm pretty sure Watkins glen is independently owned. nascar, and imsa race there and indycar raced there until 2017 and haven't gone since for some reason.

[@soul-heart]

@@ZIGAG1999 Watkins Glen was owned by International Speedway Corp. till 2019 when NASCAR bought out ISC and merged. I would hope that NASCAR would still allow other major motorsports use the track, especially with how things are going with NASCAR and Indycar, but I can only assume that's why no major motorsport has used the track since NASCAR bought ISC.

[@samuelmcneill1120]

@@ZIGAG1999 IMSA is owned and operated by NASCAR. I’ve been to Watkins Glen and had the vendors talk to me about the tracks management since NASCAR took over.

[@JSRacing61]

@@samuelmcneill1120 exactly this Heck, the track doesn't even have a event page up for the 2022 6 Hour yet.

[@JrMcChkn]

Am I the only one who loves the bus stop? When you get it right, it flows so well into the next turn. provides a passing opportunity as well.

[@nickb2049]

I've always liked it

[@jtdavis62]

The technical problems with the track aside, the main problem with F1 going back to Watkins Glen is the area's lack of facilities and access roads. Unlike Austin, where last month's race saw record crowds of 140,000, this part of New York lacks major airports and highways. To get there, you have to take a maze of 2-lane roads through rural countryside. Even a modest crowd would cause massive traffic and crowd problems for the area. And the relative remoteness of the circuit and the lack of adequate hotel accommodations in the area would discourage casual fans from attending. Hospital services are also lacking should a driver need a modern trauma center. The cost of upgrading both the circuit and the area would be huge and certainly prohibitive. It's far easier and cheaper to make a street circuit in Miami or New Jersey and call it a race. Yes, Nascar still races there, but we're talking about much smaller crowds and team resources, so I can't see a fair comparison between the two here.

[@zacharyford7844]

The NASCAR cup race gets 100,000 on the Sunday race and they make all the roads three lanes and usually one way. Once you get to the road leaving it’s very quick to get out

[@mets137781]

Yeah you wouldn't think it, but it's actually better setup than you might think. Wife and I went there for a wine festival in 2018 and we were surprised how well thought out things were. Again it hosts NASCAR and draws 100k plus so they have an understanding of how to make large crowds and the there's a fare number of nice resort type facilities not too far away. I think the updates for modern spaces on the track would be more problematic than getting the people here.

[@MostlyAutomotive48]

Like the previous commenters noted, it's not too bad. I'm also a former resident too, so I'm super familiar with the area. Believe it or not, the nearest airport is only about 20 minutes away, and is one of the longest runways in upstate NY (ELM), which is where all the NASCAR members usually land. It's actually comparable in nature to Spa. Both are somewhat isolated, not near a major city, or major highway. But a plethora of local services, businesses, and neighboring small / medium sized towns and cities easily support massive crowds

[@tjp72675]

we get 100K to 120K every year for NASCAR, we can handle an F1 crowd,. There are lots of roads leading out from the Glen. They have traffic control leaving down to a science...

[@calebgarland2756]

Maybe instead of hotels Camping World can send a whole lot of campers

[@jackfoster3652]

Yes. In my mind it's the closest thing the USA has to a Silverstone or Monza. A road course steeped in history showing off a beautiful section of the respective country

[@joelwillstein9906]

I live on Long Island, a good 6 hours from the track but way back in the 1960's i made the F1 race a few times. Naturally, I'd love to have both Indy Car and F1 race at the Glen once again, but the track owners have balked at all the safety changes that need to be made to bring the track up to F1 Standards. I believe that it's currently classed as a #3 track so that it doesn't qualify for either F1 or Indy Car.

[@johnedwards230]

Indycar did race there in 2017 I think, so I don't think its as far off as some think. You have to look at it compared to say a street circuit and is it worse than one of those? I think you'd need to move the tunnel in the esses to get a run off area there and generally just improve run offs in 3 or 4 areas and it would be ok.

[@fajar13k]

It is classified as FIA Grade 2 track, don't know how much investment needs and changes to be made for a Grade 1.

[@cco53587]

NASCAR does own it so they have the resources, but they also have about 20 or so other tracks to deal with, so it's their call, really.

[@RRaquello]

@@cco53587 NASCAR also saw, pretty close up, the whole fiasco of F1 Indianapolis experience. I don't know if they'd have any interests in putting a billion dollars into a track to get a race that will disappear after five years.

[@Ropponmatsu2]

“GARAK menswear” - Someone’s got a sense of humour.

[@JohnSmithShields]

Just a simple tailor.

[@rdfox76]

Plain. Simple.

[@CrunchyMotorsport]

A track that is steeped in history such as Watkins Glen needs to be on the F1 calandar but needs to keep its soul

[@mjh2431]

A good compliment to this video would be to search for the Tony Stewart/Lewis Hamilton ride swap if you want more. Unfortunately, the weather that day wasn't too cooperative, but a fun experience nonetheless.

[@donaldfedosiuk1638]

I was at the USGP in '62 (as an infant-in-arms, of course) , where I not only saw Jim Clark win his third grand prix, but saw his Lotus type 25 up close and personal as it was towed slowly on a small trailer behind a Ford station wagon along the jam-packed main street of the town. Made maybe another half-dozen or so GPs there over the next near-two decades, surviving six-odd hour drives out the NY State Thruway (and back again by 7AM Monday morning) , unseasonable early October upstate NY freezes and the infamous Bog, where the custom was to burn a car at midnight each year, the flames lighting the night sky like Atlanta being put to the torch -- the story goes the authorities stepped in after a tour bus got torched. Watched Clark win one of his last races there in '67 (I think that was the year he did it on three wheels and without a functioning clutch); saw James Hunt give Lord Hesketh his only F1 win; and Jody Schecter in an early appearance on a third McClaren; Mario in an Alfa Romeo; the Count deBeaufort in his ancient Porsche; and sadly was there when Francoise Cevert was killed. The Glen was not only a staple of the F1 calendar, it's arguably the birthplace of US road racing (images of Phil Hill and his Alfa 8C2900B MM coupe dance on my corneas, and no I wasn't around for THAT lol) No doubt a lot of money and effort needed to bring the venue up to speed (so to speak), but the Glen is arguably a "legacy" track fully as much as Monaco or Spa.

[@LightsOutLow]

awesome memories, although from my own petered memory, i think Hunt got the only Hesketh win at Zandvoort in the Netherlands?

[@donaldfedosiuk1638]

@@LightsOutLow Absolutely right! Just checked and your memory is a lap or so ahead of mine, at least. Ronnie Peterson won that year -- I remember it was a very close race with James coming up several places in the field in the closing laps to finally take second. As Poirot used to say to Captain Hastings: "Zee leetle grey cells, hein, 'Astings?"

[@dorklyasmr6017]

I love driving Watkins glen on my sim rig. It’s too bad it will never host an F1 race again; way too much money needed for safety upgrades, coupled with the fact that Austin is creating expectations of a quarter million gate admissions over a weekend in a town that simply doesn’t even remotely have the capacity to handle crowds that size, means it just can’t happen. Awesome track though

[@05gaming41]

My personal favourite car to drive around Watkins glen is the Lotus 98t

[@RRaquello]

Watkins Glen used to handle massive crowds back in the day. I believe in the 70's, it had the largest draw of any Formula One race. Well over 100,000 for the race itself. Don't know what the total weekend draw was. Also, I wouldn't count on any quarter million fan gate as a permanent feature of the Texas race.I've seen so many promising starts for F1 races in the US that end up being abortions.

[@cgstever91]

@@RRaquello 3-400,000 for nascar at the glen

[@nicocrinkleburg]

I think this is a fair analysis. I love the track, but for today’s F1 cars (along with the FIA having to possibly “nerf” the track a little), I’d say no. Money obviously talks too. I’d honestly just love to see more makes/series race here, just not F1 (or until the new car rules prove it could be possible). Note: I live internationally from the US so I dont get much exposure to racing at Watkins Glen outside of NASCAR and INDYCAR

[@davedarling4316]

When I drove WG in real life ("aggressive parade laps"), the corners had concrete sections around the apexes. Apparently put in there for the NASCAR boys, who were tearing up the normal pavement without it. It also offered extra grip in those areas, which apparently allowed the car I was driving to be at WOT through rather more of them than you would think. (Lightweight and relatively low-powered car.) Suggestions for more US tracks to check: - Sears Point (now called Sonoma Raceway, formerly Infineon, but ALWAYS SEARS POINT TO ME!) - Thunder Hill I drove the first half back when, and had a ball. Haven't been there since they added the rest of the track, but I bet it's still quite fun. That's where they hold the "NASA 25 Hours".

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

Sears Point is a great track.

[@KaminoCloningOperations]

They did a full circuit repave back in 2016. FIA grade 2 circuit now.

[@davedarling4316]

Thanks, I did not know that!

[@mols89]

I live 90 minutes from the Glen, I love this track and area of the country. I think this track is close to making it F1-able. The biggest concern is the runoff areas, and changing them could greatly affect the visual feel of the facility.

[@captainsouth4460]

Yet they race Monaco with 0 run offs LOL

[@3Dsjk]

I live in the area, and if you get nice weather in October it’s absolutely beautiful here. When the leaves start to change colors it looks like fireworks going off everywhere. And as you said, it looks rural, but there are a lot of wineries, and a lot of very, very expensive homes around many of the Finger Lakes. It’s not the party/festival destination F1 wants, but it would certainly do well with corporate sponsors executives. I love that the track hasn’t been neutered with runoff in every corner. There’s some where you need it to make things safer for a wide variety of cars, but not so much that it rewards sloppy driving. The last Indycar race here was cold and damp, and the race director said screw it, no track limits; if you can drive on it, you can use it. They could have done a more elegant job with the bus stop chicane, but the hard braking does provide a good contact point for stock cars, which is a nice change of pace from the driver spinning out.

[@johnmick9457]

The most fun I ever had at a race track was at Watkins Glen when the F-1 race was there. The races were great and the parties even better.

[@adammiller011]

I was at the Six Hours at the Glen this year (IMSA Race) and I got to meet Kevin Magnussen and get his autograph. The racing and atmosphere was absolutely amazing. It has ruined all future races I'll ever attend because it was just that damn good.

[@bro_hornet]

I was there too! The racing at The Glen is the best I’ve seen.

[@Enderdragon91]

I was also there! A shame a lot of the events on Saturday were packed with cautions. Even so, the open paddock and the wonderful views on trackade for a wonderful experience!

[@minibus9]

awesome video, hard to see how F1 could return without haveing to make changes that would ruin the track which is a shame as it would be amazing to have Watkins Glen back

[@KosmicHRTRacingTeam]

Cool that you are coving some of the US tracks. There really are 5-6 good tracks that F1 could easily go to in the US. Ya, try Road Atlanta next. That’s another great one!!

[@pFoz]

Great video! I saw Lewis at the Glen in 2011 and the one thing you don't get from KZbin is how the sound echoes through the trees. It's almost spiritual. There would need to be runoff spots in turns 4 and 9 to say the least. But there are plenty of natural overtaking spots little will need to be done. And there would be generations who'd enjoy a great show!

[@dougrich6110]

I live 2 hours away and would love to see an F1 race here! Great video

[@davidfabish-wood5278]

I think it could be a great Grade 1 track without sanitising it too much - Interlagos has managed it. Changes needed: - Turn 1 runoff extended, more tyres at end of runoff - Wider bridge at Esses to allow for grass shoulders all along the first sector, concrete walls and SAFER barriers along stretch from Turns 2-4 - Optional chicane before the Outer Loop for passing at end of DRS zone, configured like the new chicane at Pukekohe Park so that cross-cross passes can happen as well - More runoff at first left of the Boot, pull in the Toe corner for more runoff - Make the flat-out left-hander into a longer corner, which pulls a new last corner towards the Boot and lengthens the pit straight, allowing for more pits and better passes into Turn 1.

[@tonywilson4713]

I think your pretty much right on all those points. The question for each one is how do you avoid (as others have) turning the place into another Tilkerdome where the racing as a boring as watching bat crap decay. The end of the back straight is the critical one as it would be the end of the only DRS zone. You might put another on the front straight but its fairly short and probably not that useful.

[@davidfabish-wood5278]

@@tonywilson4713 yeah absolutely. With my idea to push the last corner back towards the Boot, about 100 metres, you would have enough for a second DRS zone on the straight as it becomes about 750-800 metres long. But yeah, the key is to do just enough without ruining the challenge and the claustrophobic feeling in the fast bits.

[@tonywilson4713]

@@davidfabish-wood5278 There's anther odd problem with the layout and that other than the first 4 corners its a lot of constant radius corners with just straights between. There's not a lot of making the car handle changes of direction. Years ago I had a boss who owned a 2 car open wheeler team in Australia and the mechanics used to talk a lot about getting cars to rapidly change direction. Like at the Glenn how the S's roll the car from one side to the other and then back again. Getting a car to load one way then the other then back again and maintain grip isn't as straight forward as it sounds. All those constant radius corners in the back half mean the car only has to be good at being loaded up rather than being loaded then unloaded and then reloaded. My boss who had raced once tried to explain to me the brilliance of that first chicane at Adelaide. Its years ago but the basics where that it loaded unloaded and reloaded the suspension in a way that made it very difficult to get right and very easy to get wrong and wreck a lap time. Plus he said the moved it about a meter each year and that screwed up what everybody thought they knew from the previous year. If they put some form of high speed flip-flop just after the big turn 4 loop near the point where the track splits off to the boot. It would be a very rapid left-right after a long heavy loaded right then and finally into a almost off camber left. Plus if there was a well designed (emphasis on well designed) sequence before the end of the back straight then that right hander (turn 4) becomes a place where they are accelerating up through the gears like Curva Grande at Monza. Then that whole middle section changes flavor for an F1 but leaves the character of the track unchanged. If that was done with your suggestion for the final corner then this could be a great F1 track WITHOUT wrecking the character of the track. However it is Formula 1 and fans don't matter.

[@arslangungil2923]

The bus stop is great! Love to see F1 race here again! I live 4 hours away, been here to watch NASCAR, got seats by the final corner. AWESOME facility.

[@StreetLugeNetwork]

The other great thing about Watkins Glen for the teams and fans was it was only a 5 hour drive from Mosport for the Canadian Grand Prix. Both these tracks started hosting their respective grand prix in the exact same year too in 1961 so both tracks kinda grew up together in a way.

[@SlikLizrd]

I have attended both the US GP at the Watkins Glen course AND the Canadian Grand Prix at Mosport Park. Both of those tracks were excellent facilities for the racing and crowds of those days. The "good old days" are NEVER coming back -- because the population has DOUBLED in the meantime.

[@samuelmcneill1120]

Watkins Glen is the only race track I've been to and it was one of the best experiences of my life. Hoping to go back for NASCAR or IMSA in 22.

[@Malachi_Marx]

The short version + the bus stop is one of my most exciting races on the NASCAR Calendar.

[@nickhanlon9331]

My friend from New Jersey became an F1 fan because of Watkins Glen and the party atmosphere.

[@thorstenwanoth6774]

Nice one Aidan. I remember Watkins from GT Legends days played on Altbierbude servers years ago. Cars were a lot slower then with the GTC class. Cool driving. Watkins is a great track.

[@charlesklass4209]

The bus stop chicane was added in 1993. At the 1991 "Budweiser at the Glen", which was the name of the Fall NASCAR race at the time, J.D. McDuffie, who had been driving in NASCAR as a part time owner-driver since 1966, was killed when his suspension failed and he lost all braking on the straightaway. His car plowed into the retaining wall down the hill, hitting so hard, it bounced off and flipped over on its roof. In addition, the "Boot" was added in the late 1970s if i'm not mistaken.

[@y_fam_goeglyd]

When you compare this to the street circuits, it's safer IMHO. Think of how close the walls are in them yet given enough opportunities, the drivers still hit 200+ mph (322+ kph). The pits in Monaco aren't fit for purpose, so those at the Glen should be just fine. I'd _absolutely_ watch this over Miami (I mean, come on! Why street circuits in the US!?)🤦🏻‍♀️

[@dylanzrim3635]

As mentioned in previous videos, legacy tracks get special treatment if they can’t physically fix the track. So Monaco gets to do whatever. The tracks like Baku are there because $$$ i for one like racing Baku, because it’s like the designer wanted adelaide back on the calendar.

[@DevinEMILE]

@@dylanzrim3635 There is no way they will move the pits either, Bus Stop is there for safety in Nascar, Two huge accidents in the 90s made them add it

[@jim874]

@@DevinEMILE Those cars were death traps compared to what they race today.

[@dylanzrim3635]

@@jim874 very true. But the radillion like turn 3 is a death trap for F1. They can’t take that risk

[@DevinEMILE]

@@jim874 Still see shit like brake fade at pocono hate to see it at 160 into a corner with no other option then go straight

[@ThomasPoulin]

As a new englander, I would love to see a race there

[@rponiarski]

I was there in "The Bog" back in the early 70's. Lots of fun and the racing wasn't bad either!

[@nickwonttell8584]

I would love to see F1 race here, one of my favourite tracks.

[@chadhaverlock1649]

Do more videos like this!! Nice job sir.

[@aaronaaronsen3360]

I first drove this track on Forza Motorsport and instantly loved it. The section after the Tilkesque first corner is my favourite and I don't dislike the bus stop chicane. Weirdly I prefer the short track, bit the long version is still good. The racing would be nice with the 2022 cars, provided they fix the dirty air problem sufficiently

[@northman77]

I would like it. I am unable to drive with the halo without vr! Well done. Keep it up.

[@TheSnaveeelPlaysGames]

Without watching I say yes, absolutely. I did my first proper laps there today in Iracing and what an incredible track it is! I’m assuming it’ll need upgrading to FIA standards but it really is a fantastic circuit.

[@TheBigDawgSL]

The bus stop was added in 1991 I believe because of the passing of JD Mcduffie and the injury to Tommy Kendall.

[@shig.bitz.3205]

Agree with you on American tracks. Watkins Glen and Sonoma are some of my favourites.

[@kcspeed9980]

I’ve driven the track, and it’s awesome!!! But definitely a challenge for a driver. There’s very little margin for error, at the track event I was at 4 cars ended up in the blue wall. I was happy my daily (wrx) went home in one piece

[@wonkybomb1865]

I live about 20 minutes from Limerock Park and can say we desperately need a bigger series and or event in the northeast United States. There are so many large cities compressed into this region of the country and it’s a wealth of untapped potential.

[@wolfsruhm]

Ahhh it's nice to see the iconic Option 13 livery for once ^^

[@raginOKCTHUNDER]

Fun fact: The last time an F1 car was on Watkins Glen was back in 2011 when Lewis Hamilton ride swapped with then NASCAR driver Tony Stewart.

[@MostlyAutomotive48]

Indeed, at least as far as modern F1 cars go. Watkins Glen still hosts classic GP races where owners of old 60s - 80s F1 cars get to race again around the track every year.

[@nickplenzick2602]

Saw GPs there from 72 thru 1980. Raced Formula Fords there in the 80s and Porsches thru the 90s into the early 2000s. Its a fantastic track and F1 should make it possible to go back there. Once of the best tracks for spectator viewing. Run off might need to be increased in a few areas and the ARMCO would need to be replaced with safer barriers in the esses. Love to see it happen.

[@10WBlood]

Since all the tracks are in the South or the West it would be nice to have one race within a days drive of me every now and then.

[@jimbryant2157]

Watkins Glen is my favorite track to drive in PC racing games older games like Race 07 and R Factor), so I would LOVE to see F1 return there.

[@TheShrike616]

Wow, this is one speedy track.

[@sterny7341]

The flow of this track is so good that even nascar is satisfying to watch on a hot lap here

[@connorbingel7134]

Nascar at Watkins Glen is amazing. I’d love to see the track get more series

[@johnstudent6968]

Yes, this track is a much better option than the parking lot race in Miami, and it can have good racing especially with some risky dive bombs possible into some of the 90 degree turns and bus stop chicane.

[@Philth_E]

The finger lakes are beautiful.

[@prongATO]

I am a fairly new F1 fan, I started watching again in 2019 and absolutely fell in love with the sport. I watched with my dad when I was a kid (the races we could actually watch, living in the U.S.) circa 1980s. I think after college and being an engineer that aspect I of the sport really interests me, beyond the driving. I would love to see even more races in the U.S. but wish the tickets weren’t damned expensive! ($800 USD for the cheapest single day ticket in Austin). After warning this video I hope they return to Watkins Glen; I really enjoy what I think are the “ classic” tracks. Spa, Monza, etc. i can’t stand Sochi and other tracks like it.

[@rdfox76]

Took the proper NASCAR line through turn one there on the hot lap! (NASCAR's attitude towards "extending track limits" is that if it's paved and it's on the *outside* of the corner, you can use it, so everyone jumps the outside curb on the exit there...) The "long right-hander" that you mention just after the chicane is often called the "Carousel" today, but was traditionally known as the Loop. There was a series of bad crashes there in 1989-91 that culminated in JD McDuffie's fatal crash during the 1991 NASCAR Winston Cup race, all related to brake failure heading into the Loop. The Inner Loop chicane was added before the 1992 season specifically to address the safety concerns there, and all series use it; the original straight track is retained as an escape road. (There is a track rule that states that if you go straight through instead of taking the Inner Loop, you must bring your car to a complete stop before rejoining the track, or face a stop-and-go penalty.) Trivia: The circuit was completely reprofiled after the 1970 season, with only the section from the Esses to the Loop being reused. The new design seen here was specifically designed for Formula One cars, being the first race track ever designed by computer, with a target lap time of 2:30:00 in 1971. The "short course" that NASCAR uses today actually was originally created for the 1971 Six Hours of the Glen, because construction on the Boot was not yet complete and removal of the section of the "chute" from the Loop to where the Boot rejoined had not yet begun; the Short Course was considered somewhat inferior for sports cars, but the decision was made to retain it as an option anyway. Personally, I think Lewis Hamilton would agree with me that there's no changes that need to be made to the Glen to make it a great place for modern F1 cars... even if FIA would disagree.

[@papajetta]

I couldn't even begin to imagine the traffic that would build up for the USGP at the Glen during modern times.... i remember it being a few hours away from any major highway.

[@KaminoCloningOperations]

Simply untrue. The New York State Thruway runs right through Horseheads which is 10 miles down the road from Watkins Glen.

[@thedon-e6514]

I am super late to this party! As an Aussie I am honour bound to suggest you run a modern F1 car around Mount Panorama, however what I really want to see is Philip Island! Would turn 1 be flat out or a braking zone for turn 2? Would they get airborne over Lukey Heights? It’s such a great track and the bikes put on such a good show, I reckon the F1 cars there would be awesome! Oh, and thanks for the great videos 😄

[@jonlamontagne]

I love Limerock not for F1 but the IMSA and GT3 cars are fun to watch there!

[@stephenbritton9297]

Haha, love the DS9 reference. Like RA and most of the US FIA Grade 2 tracks, the effort to upgrade the safety (walls, run offs, kerbs, etc) would be cost prohibitive. That said, RA has made some significant upgrades the past few winters, with more to come this winter!

[@tjp72675]

great video, only thing is every series that races at Watkins uses the Bus stop, if F1 came back, they would have to use it, too. Ever since JD McDuffie died at Watkins in 1991, they built the boot and have used it there ever since. I wish NASCAR raced the boot there...their cars are good enough now that they can handle the boot. I live 20 miles from the track, I have been to so many races there, I lost track. NASCAR, Indy, ISMA, Trans Am, IROC, I love this track...

[@4looming]

The two things I'd say would need to be improved would be widening the section at the top of the essess, especially where the bridge is. It needs more shoulder in that section and it has a for a long time. Look up the Nissan team crash at that location for an example why. There's simply not enough space to avoid accidents and most accidents end up pinging off both sides because of how narrow it is. The second, if you wanted to eliminate the bus stop, would be to bank the turn after it, forcing cars to make a sweeping right into the boot, and not give the option to runoff straight. The way it's setup now is banked, yes, but still gives the option for runoff area. If you want to eliminate the bus stop you have to slow the cars down going into that corner. That's why the bus stop was added in the first place. Drivers would come off the straight and go head first into the wall. The track would also need some facility upgrades but other than that it's pretty close to perfect. They've made some great strides and advancements in the past few years. My favourite track of all time.

[@mossj52]

I grew up 30 minutes from the Glen. I w driven track days on it. Such an underrated track, and area for a GP weekend. Huge beautiful wine country surrounding it for mils and miles. It would be amazing to see the F1 circus return. It think its a shame F1 ever left.

[@jasonmoyer]

The 60's layout didn't have the boot, and they added a chicane before the esses shortly after the boot was added. It would be really cool to see them there now, but I don't see it happening without the esses chicane or the current bus stop.

[@americanpride9733]

One of the most underrated tracks ever

[@RichardRenes]

Love the DS9 nod :)

[@highlightshadow]

Watkins Glen is one of the tracks i could always drive and thoroughly enjoy in Forza Motorsport7.... i know it's just a more arcadey game than a sim but there's something about this layout that feels really rewarding for getting things right ... i must have clocked hundreds of laps in things like GT3/GT2 level cars in that game. I would be happy to see it on the calendar Rewards patience in some areas and rewards bravery in others but has good speed and precious few frustrating corners

[@robertsacks7995]

As someone whose family is well-rooted in the Finger Lakes, I have to say while I would love F1 to return to Watkins Glen..... ... the changes needed to be made to make the track FIA Grade 1 would be far too drastic and would remove the character of the track. Runoff would have to be added in nearly every portion of the race track, the paddock facilities would be completely redesigned which would probably remove much of the camping space in the infield which gives the track its character, and the surrounding towns, while used to the tourism industry, are woefully unequipped to handle the circus which is a Grand Prix. The atmosphere at the track is one where you are close to the action, able to walk right up and sit behind the open-air paddock, walk through the garages freely, and be able to enjoy being a part of a race day in a way that you can't necessarily do at a Grade 1 circuit. F1 coming to The Glen would potentially destroy this atmosphere permanently while not guaranteeing that the race would stay to cover the costs of the renovations.

[@DnBBHox]

Chiming in from Ithaca here, with all kinds of ties to hector and the 414 wine trail... I couldn't agree more. I absolutely love the track and love F1, but I don't see how it'd be possible. For me, it isn't even the runoffs (though widening the sides of the esses as they've somewhat done with Raidillon would be a HUGE change), it's the overall WIDTH of the track- Image a Q1 setting during Aidan's laps. I just don't see where the other 19 cars would go to get out of the way.

[@MasonS60]

You mentioning the finger lakes, all I can think of is Fred Armisen and Kristen Wiig on SNL in a recurring bit, The Lawrence Welk Show.

[@andre_star7776]

I think the only change would be some run-offs. The paddock and the pits could in theory be rebuilt. With a expense, obviously

[@chrisguardiano6143]

If Watkins Glen was added back onto the F1 calendar, the short course (the one NASCAR uses) should be used because you could have a longer race as a result because a lap time on the short course is only 1:10 in a stock car and I would assume it would be under a minute in a modern F1 car. Other than that the facilities need to be updated to meet FIA standards, especially the pits/paddock area. Also a regional airport close to the track needs to be built so that the teams don't have to fly into NYC or Buffalo and drive an additional two hours to the track or have the race right after the Canadian GP.

[@shaggy7327]

Would love to see F1 at Road America, Road Atlanta, Sebring, or Watkins Glen.

[@MrSliim280]

absolutely it should be on the schedule

[@charlesdrews4700]

"Garak Menswear. Plain. Simple." **chef's kiss**

[@connormccollough5315]

You should do Road Atlanta. It is a great track with lots of elevation changes.

[@chrisdagati4597]

I lived an hour away as a kid in owego..now I live on the gulf coast of alabama...if they came back I would make the trip every year

[@CrunchyMotorsport]

"In New York you'll hear Steamed Hams but it is something of a Utica expression." Great Simpsons reference but we need a Ralph reference

[@AidanMillward]

Any time I do iracing is “I’m in danger!”

[@MulettoMotorsports]

God I love that track. Every single time I use Rfactor with an old mod is the BT-44 in Watkins Glen. Glen and Kyalami, they need to be back.

[@UrMomsChauffer]

We had/still have our fair share of good tracks. It's a damn shame some of them are no longer around, open, used, or in certain series.

[@qbertq1]

I think the "bus stop" chicane was installed after some pretty bad (and at least one fatal) accidents during NASCAR and IMSA races in the early 1990s.

[@mr.doctorprofessor9953]

One of the best tracks in the US and in the world!

[@soisaidtogod4248]

Maybe the states, not even close on the world stage.

[@saintuk70]

what a track indeed!

[@simoneburini4036]

The Bus Stop was added at the end of 1991, after Tommy Kendall's terrible crash (IMSA) and JD McDuffie's fatal crash (NASCAR)

[@ImInLoveWithBulla]

Current F1 cars are such prima donnas. Not only do they need to be put on life support essentially just to be started, but they even need circuits tailor made specifically for them otherwise they just can’t race competitively.

[@BOABModels]

Garak Menswear. Suit you, sir!

[@vladimirzimonja8103]

Absolutely yes. Great circuit.

[@cjsawinski]

How bout Road America!!! Would love that as well!

[@AidanMillward]

I said in the video I’d already done Road America…

[@cjsawinski]

Ya I wasn’t asking for you to do a vid…. Just expressing how much I’d love F1 to race their

[@Donnelly1972]

Having attended many events at The Glen I've wondered too how bringing F1 back would work. Personally, I'd love to see the Grand Prix go to a golf model and rotate between COTA, The Glen, Road America, and 1-2 others. But at The Glen, it would take a new pit building, a LOT of luxury boxes, and better infrastructure (Roads, a big heliport, etc). Were talking tens of millions that NASCAR or Schuyler County won't spend.

[@dylanzrim3635]

Maybe F2-3 could do an American tour

[@wackyd9863]

Aside from the need to build a new F1 paddock on the long stretch there, and then the need for some actual pit stretch seating on that stretch, they desperately need to figure out how to get people in and out of that place at a better rate. I was at a few nascar races there in the late 90's when nascar was actually selling out every event all year long and Gordon was winning them all. It took us something like 6 hours to get out of the parking lot, and nothing has changed since those days, as far as new or wider roads or more infrastructure. It is a beautiful track and in some nascar circles is referred to the Talladega of road courses. Would love to see an F1 race there!

[@coreyhayward2122]

Some updates to the infrastructure and facilities and I think the track is more than suitable for F1. Maybe some barriers moved back to accommodate faster cars but currently it doesn’t seem any more dangerous than Melbourne or Canada

[@Speedworx]

I loved Indycar coming here, shame that doesn't happen anymore.

[@pendremacherald6758]

I would say yes. But I don’t want to see my favorite race track butchered by the FIA safety regulations. I think F1 and Indycar should race on the long circuit. But, the short circuit is perfect for NASCAR. I would say that Xfinity should also race on the short circuit, but maybe trucks on the long circuit. I would even love to see V8 Supercars run here. Watkins glen has the carousel, the bus stop, the downhill turn 1, the esses, the final pair of corners. Its just perfect. The best parts of Brands Hatch, Hungary, and its own flair. Side note: The Bus Stop Chicane was added in 1992 after the tragic death of NASCAR Legend JD McDuffie. Honestly, I could go on for hours about how much I love this place, but, if you want to see why. Watch the finishes to the NASCAR cup races from 2011,2012,2013,2014,2018, and 2019.

[@jim874]

I always thought the short circuit was for the less talented driver.

[@pendremacherald6758]

Jim Barrie I don’t really think that matters. I think it has to do with whether which circuit improves the racing of its series. For NASCAR, its much better to make turn 10 such a passing opportunity. Indycars don’t need it to be that way right there.

[@soderquist1245]

Imsa also races there on the long track

[@jim874]

@@soderquist1245 You're right. Finding out that even the more junior formulas use the long track. I guess NASCAR must think that the long track is above their driver's skill set.

[@ProxiProtogen]

@@jim874 *proceeds to race at Sonoma and COTA*

[@kaiying74]

Another track that I think I'd rather F1 didn't "improve". I agree with your opinion on them having to move the pits.

[@shitposts3375]

If the FIA really wants to add 2 races to the Formula 1 Calendar in the US, the fact that they're not even publicly considering Watkins Glen or even IMS is insane. Those two tracks are huge in the cultural history of motorsport. Absolutely should be destinations and proving grounds for the world championship.

[@foxholiday4308]

This is my home track 25 minutes away baby bring F1 back !, eve though the track would need more runoff’s

[@uuutooob9]

Last time I drove The Glen there were not enough local motels/hotels/B&Bs to host Formula One. And that's a good thing.

[@doublejump6578]

Ben around Watkins in a cup car F40 , my property was right at turn 5 , I had 200 acres next door , I ha a motocross track there

[@artmchugh5644]

I have done hundreds of laps on this track in my 944 turbo !!! My laps were slower, but they were REAL !!!! 😀😀😀😀😀😂😂😂🚗🚗🚗🍺🍺

[@Lcngopher]

5:03 this is not its original 60s configuration. The boot didnt exist so they used the short course straight after the carousel. The second to last corner was actually more sweepy. Then there was a right and a left kink just before current turn one which was actually the last corner. What is now the last two corners as well as the boot didnt exist until 1971

[@TheTotallyRealXiJinping]

Not-So-Fun fact; The bus stop chicane was added after J.D. Mcduffies fatal nascar accident in that corner

[@michaelkruse6536]

One track I’d love to see if f1 would handle is Sears point (Sonoma Raceway). I saw the 2016 Mercedes go around there and I drove it on project cars but I think it would be cool to have f1 or at least a junior series there.