Should I Mix Into A Limiter?

[@dirkbrouns5293]

I mix with a limiter on, instead of into the limiter, to make sure my dynamics are under control WITHOUT the limiter. Sounds upside down, but here is my point: I do not want the limiting of the track to change the sounds of my mix. Hence, I make sure that I take care of the dynamic range within the entire mix. I do want to monitor the mix within the dynamic range it will be released at - let's say for -10LUFS. To achieve that range, I do not want to rely on a peak limiter to do more than 2-3dB of limiting. For sure I do not want to deliver a mix where the master engineer needs to start reducing dynamic range with 5dB or even more - that changes the mix levels in my experience. So in a way I agree with your point: when I take off the limiter, the sound does not change. Actually what I do: I use the PA Tue Peak limiter and drive into the threshold to get max 3dB of limiting. BTW I also like the sound of this plugin and use the XL function as part of my sound. When I send the final mix out to mastering, I just reduce the gain back to zero and all is fine.

[@DeepProductionsRadio]

makes alot of sense, jaycen joshua says the reason he mixes into is a limiter is so he can make it loud without being stuffy or distorted. Both ideas make sense.

[@johnjhonny646]

Legendary engineer manny maroquin refuses to turn off the limiter and sends it to the mastering studio with no headroom. He doesn't let the mastering engineer do a lot of work. I think a lot of mastering engineers have to figure out how to get good sound out of mixes that don't have headroom. It's a trend and a new way

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

I totally disagree with this. It's not a trend at all. What you are missing is Manny is a skilled engineer who is using a Limiter in a very different way to 99.9% of producers who are slapping a limiter over the mix to limit dynamics. This is not a good idea for producers to do as in the mastering stage, a lot of work is required of the master engineer. Manny doesn't require much of a mastering engineer because he is a skilled engineer himself. 99.9% of producers are not skilled in the art of mixing. So thinking that you are going to achieve the same mix because you just slap a limiter over the mix is nieve.

[@johnjhonny646]

@@AudioAnimalsStudio I'm not talking about people with bad mixes. It's a well-known fact in the industry that manny sends mixes with 1-2db less headroom to the mastering engineer. Some engineers have larvry in their studios and are already doing the mastering stage and will try to keep the client approved final mix as best they can. Because the customer also doesn't want the sound to change much in the mastering. I'm just saying that not all engineers turn the limiter off like you said.

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

@john jhonny yes but you aren't listening to what I replied to you. Not all engineers or producers can achieve a mix like Manny. There is a good reason why he can get away with leaving a limiter on because he understands mixing better than most and can use a limiter correctly. 99.9% of others do not. This results in everything I am talking about here playing a massive part in 99.9999999% of the producers and engineers mixes.

[@johnjhonny646]

@@AudioAnimalsStudio ok i understand. don't get me wrong

[@jzilla_grudgegang]

@@johnjhonny646 a lot of people use the double limiter trick. He mixes into the limiter instead of slapping a limiter on at the end with incorrect mixes and leveling

[@Ravegirl1]

Thanks for this 😊

[@sergiolima368]

Great video.

[@AlexAlcyone]

Definitely agree. To get more loudness in the overall mix without losing any dynamic range, one trick is to bounce out the mix, then put the stereo file into something like Peak (old school app I still use) to find the loudest point in the track (using the "find peak" function). Then go back into your DAW and literally find that transient (it's usually on one or maybe two mix channels/instruments), zoom all the way in to sample level, cut that wave cycle out using 'snap to zero crossing' and turn the volume down on that transient peak by 1 or 2 dB. If you do this edit correctly you absolutely will not be able to hear what you did. Quite often in an un-limited track there are a handful of peaks that are maybe up to 2 or 3 db higher than the rest. Fix those peaks and you can bump the master fader up without getting a clip on your final bounce. And no dynamic range lost.

[@jzilla_grudgegang]

I make trap music for rap artist and I mix into a limiter everytime but I barely adjust the threshold to where it affects the sound and dynamics just enough because boosting and cutting while mixing can destroy your sound when you slap a limiter at the end and now you can’t figure out what the problem is cause your eq on individual elements is everywhere. But I have good samples and sound selection the last thing I wanna do is all this dumb processing for a limiter to just destroy the mix and there’s no coming back from this

[@nelsonmoloi3767]

Lot of since thank you so much

[@DeepProductionsRadio]

probably mixing both ideas together is best, slap the limiter on half way through.

[@jzilla_grudgegang]

You can mix into a limiter just don’t try mixing into a limiter with it set blasting at mastering levels. Adjust the threshold to where it slightly starts engaging then you’ll have an idea what elements need more processing. It’s getting things right the first time instead of going back and forth, you’ll get nowhere when you gotta go back and forth like most do when slapping a limiter at the end and wonder why their mixes are destroying the mastered sound because you over processed everything and made terrible eq choices that sounded good while mixing but you master is awful. Hence why it’s good to send unmastered wav/mp3 and mastered wav/mp3 including stems.

[@NuclearDeathWalk]

Myself and many of the top mixers do in fact have a limiter we mix into on the master bus. Two that come to mine are multi-Grammy winning mixers Serban and John Hanes. As a mix engineer, my job is to take what the label or artist sends me as their production mix, which is loud, and make it better which means I am mixing into about 5 things on my masterbus to get to that level. The label approves the mix and off it goes to a mastering engineer for final prep before delivery. I work with a few mastering engineers that have no issues with my mix hitting anywhere between -12lufs to -7. Last year I mixed roughly 65 songs, and out of those at least 10 had my mix used rather than what the Mastering guy did--they changed the mix too much.

[@davidallanmusic]

Warren Buffet is famous for saying never ask a barber if you need a haircut. I think this analogy applies here also.

[@nine27]

I hear you on limiting but dolby atmos isn’t great for the industry it’s just gatekeeping bas that doesn’t even make sense for ever genre. For film sure and certain genres sure. But anything that is raw and minimalistic in nature makes zero sense. But then again the industry doesn’t make sense and thats why it’s dying 😂

[@aleksamrkela831]

Everything you said is absolutely true. Using a limiter on the mixbus is only detrimental - it dulls out transients and causes unpleasant distortion when pushed even to 2-3 dB of gain reduction, especially noticeable on the low end. Still, I'm pretty sure I've heard all the justifications (i.e. excuses) for it from other people: 1. "I'm clipping my 2bus" (If one uses a limiter not to clip, they don't know how to mix) 2. "I'm trying to control errant transients on material that isn't supposed to stick out" (Then apply it TO THAT TRACK! Not the whole mix!) 3. "It's an artistic choice" (Most limiters are meant to be as transparent as possible, except a handful - like the Sonnox Oxford Limiter - that have a SPECIFIC sound/color. Using transparent processing for artistic purposes makes very little sense) 4. "X famous engineer does it" (I don't care. It's still objectively bad. Some people get great results IN SPITE of mistakes like this, not because of them) 5. "My client will reject my mix because it's not as loud as the reference" (Why should this happen? It's much worse when the client sends the mastering engineer a mix that's squashed with a limiter (because they have an ear for it), and then trying to explain to the client that you're not supposed to do that. It's easier to reassure the client that the master's going to be a lot louder without getting into technical details)

[@klogg1987]

I'm sorry but your advice is very one-way street. Mixing into a limiter has a certain feel to it. It's not wrong mixing heavy into limiter.

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

You ask any mastering engineer if mastering a track that is mixed heavily into a limiter yields a good result after mastering. Every engineer will say no bypass the limiter for a far better result. A highly limited mix has a seriously negative impact on the outcome of the master.

[@nofood1]

You can mix into a limiter but just to get the feel of how things might sound when mastered, then you remove it..

[@AudioAnimalsStudio]

@nofood1 yes, just don't reply on it to hold your mix together. Because when you do remove it your mix will fall apart.

[@pauldiaz4273]

@@nofood1i agree! I firmly believe if you can do it then do it if it sounds good. Why pay to go to a drive through car wash when you can wash your car for free?

[@SimonCarpenter69]

stupid - says a friend ^^