Should Massachusetts Change Its State Flag?

At a town hall earlier this week, Elizabeth Warren said the state of Mississippi should change its flag to get rid of the Confederate symbols that summon a painful racial past. No one asked her about the Massachusetts state flag, but as Arun Rath reports, it is also facing increased scrutiny.

[@nickallain]

How hard is to do research? The arm and sword signifies the philosophy that one would rather lose their right arm than live under tyranny. The combination of the arm/sword/native american with arrow pointed downward is a pictogram of the state's motto: "Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ("By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty").

[@TrippaMazing87]

Yes, finally someone understands

[@RyderTheGayRaptorUwU]

Massachusetts is actually named after a Native American tribe so what’s wrong with having a Native American on the flag

[@Kegel_Destroyer]

As a Massachusetts resident this is my first time hearing anything about this. It's just people needing something to be upset about. Nothing more than fake rage. They don't really care.

[@dennis3351]

@@RyderTheGayRaptorUwU exactly Ryder and if not they are all liars and just out to call everyone a racist and raise the blm flag or have a pot flag.

[@thegreypenguin5097]

it's a stupid flag. no good flag has WORDS. just use the tree ensign as the state flag!

[@killaben85]

Just remove the arm and add the tree or replace the flag with the Bunker Hill Flag which has significant history with the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Make a referendum during a governor election which people in the state want more then make the change.

[@RebelFNOS]

That could work instead of completely changing the flag like 'some' want to

[@EssexAggiegrad2011]

Or leave the flag

[@thegreypenguin5097]

why not just make it the existing maritime flag? white bg w green tree. seems easiest tm

[@thegreypenguin5097]

maybe combine the modern day NE flag w that one, blue ensign w white canton+green tree, no st georges cross, bigger tree. I think it would look better

[@dennis3351]

No keep the Indian. they want to honor indigenous peoples right. If they remove the ''indigenous person'' then they are all hypocrites. I'm ancestor of Wampanoags.

[@Jiji-the-cat5425]

I think it's due for a makeover. Not for political reasons. But because it follows the usual very boring state seal glued to a background that quite a few states do. I'd love to see something fresh and new.

[@yormosi-6251]

How about we take away the Native Americans gambling licenses that’s doing more harm to society than a flag

[@RebelFNOS]

I'll fight to keep the flag of my state flying especially since I know the symbolism behind the design choices

[@yormosi-6251]

Mr. Grimm If voters switch sword to pine tree that seems reasonable but it’s a slippery slope

[@josephl9988]

Watching stuff like this makes me happy to live in Nevada and just have some stars and plants for my flag

[@chrismoderate3495]

*A star and a sagebrush I believe Sagebrush. It's kinda bad and not really distinct. Nobody knows what it is really. Nevada is mainly a big desert, so I think we ought to add more colors and make it more distinct and not forgotten with the other blue back grounded flags.

[@cj_m2477]

I’d suggest putting the minuteman on the flag, with his plow and flintlock. Important history of who we are.

[@TrippaMazing87]

Not a bad idea

[@RebelFNOS]

Not a bad idea but then there's a chance that some group of 'woke' people are gonna also call that racist

[@TrippaMazing87]

@@RebelFNOS omg people still comment on this lol

[@TrippaMazing87]

@@RebelFNOS but yes true

[@RebelFNOS]

@@TrippaMazing87 eh people still comment on things from years ago surprisingly enough

[@apotato6876]

Massachusetts:oh look confederate flag resemblance! Change it Mississippi: *literally has confederate flag on it* I like my flag

[@TrippaMazing87]

Oof this didn't age well

[@RyderTheGayRaptorUwU]

No it’s fine

[@Joachim_adrian]

And it looks like a surrender flag

[@Luis-xr6ec]

The Commonwealth’s flag depicts a Native American. I believe we owe it to them to preserve the flag. After all it would be here where native Americans welcomed the Europeans in 1620. To change the flag is to dismiss their image on something as important as the state’s flag. Will we next be discussing changing names like Quinsigamond Lake, Chicopee, or Quabbin reservoir?

[@dennis3351]

Luis if they dare remove the Native American then we clearly see they lied and do not honor the Native Americans as they claim and only wanted an excuse.

[@lelandgrover9036]

I love the state flag of Massachusetts my home state it holds a lot of sentimental value to me if it is to be changed it should be put to a vote by the people of the state.

[@TrippaMazing87]

Ikr, I live in Massachusetts as well, If it truly was bad it would have been changed a while back.

[@RebelFNOS]

I moved from Massachusetts but it's still my home state but I don't see the problem with our flag or how it's "racist" when it was our state that had a huge hand in making peace with natives (that mostly died from disease that would've eventually made it to them either way) and fought the hardest against slavery under that flag so why's it a problem now huh

[@Kegel_Destroyer]

I too live in Massachusetts. It's so far left that anything remotely close to a state vote on issues like this will pass. Massachusetts is lost. Crazy how this wonderful place called America all started with events here but all turned to garbage. So sad.

[@dennis3351]

@@RebelFNOS Its a handful of people who conjured up troublemaking because its the new thing to name call everyone racist. they are born followers not real leaders.

[@Train115]

​@@Kegel_Destroyer what if I said "your state is so far right, it's lost" go bugger off.

[@ethandew1768]

The sword is a peace sign, im confused

[@ethandew1768]

The sword is facing back to represent peace the only argument to make is that its lazy because its also our seal

[@Polskie573]

@@ethandew1768 its our coat its a seal when you add all the bullcrap circle around it

[@AudreyC379]

Like the vast majority of state flags, Massachusetts is overdue for a makeover. Get. It. Done.

[@Polskie573]

why ill tell you the meaning rn the sheild is there because well its our coat, the star says hey look im a state, the native is there because you know Plymouth colony thanksgiving, and you know Massachusetts is named after them, the arrow is down to represent peace, the latin underneath basically says we seek peace by the sword but only under liberty we can do that, hence the sword as for the arm its there because it represents that someone would rather loose their right arm then live under tyranny as for its location ITS A COAT OF ARMS WHERE ELSE ARE WE GONNA PUT IT

[@calebweldon8102]

The flag should be changed, it’s a bit ugly. Let’s make a flag that we can put on mugs and shirts, and be a symbol for the state. It’s fine if the sword is on the seal. I doubt anyone is actually attached to the flag. Most people who don’t want it to change just don’t like changing things.

[@mrbrainbob5320]

Agree make it much more recognizable, my state NY should also do that too. I was thinking of a blue white orange tri color for the NY flag. State seals on a flag look ugly.

[@dennis3351]

well your so wrong. read all the comments the flag is beautiful and we are attached it to. you sound as though your support a blm flag instead or just have your flag with the script your all racist.

[@TheMrPeteChannel]

Soilders from Massachusetts died trying to free the slaves during the Civil War flying similar flags. Most had that sword.

[@Polskie573]

not true buster i see symbols of respect on that flag not the face value look it has

[@pauladambarral5039]

How about just removing the arm with the sword and display it only for the native American in there

[@dennis3351]

Paul you and I know that's the common sense solution so we can assume they will not go for the common solution and honor the native as they pretend to claim . Some people have to stand up to these people and if we have no say then this state isn't democratic.

[@Polskie573]

no leave it

[@markrichards6863]

It's pretty ugly. How about a field of blue, for the ocean, under a field of green, for the forest and mountains, with a sprig of Mayflower across the middle.

[@DavidBustamanteda-bu-sa]

Put thirteen Wampanoag symbolic equivalents of a peace symbol on top of the shield and a Wampanoag-style bow and arrow beneath the shield. The thirteen Wampanoag symbols on top of the shield would respect to the the Wampanoag tribesmen, fit the Native American theme/vibe of the Massachusetts State Flag and it would represent the thirteen founder colonies of the US at the same time. The Bow and arrow below the shield would have the meaning of "We want nonstop and eternal peace, but we will recur to arms if necessary." (Just like it appears on the Federal coat of arms/seal, with the bald eagle facing towards the laurel plant held by its right claw while holding a bunch of arrows on its other claw) besides showing respect for Wampanoag tribesmen, again. Good luck on the state flag issue and I, an out-of-state American, says hi to you people of Massachusetts!

[@johntodd2357]

Get rid of Warren instead

[@TheMrPeteChannel]

You don't have to change a dang thing.

[@Polskie573]

FINALLY

[@markperez8177]

maybe we can replace the sword with the Cross of St. George despite Massachusetts being in New England

[@Polskie573]

then why is it there that ruins its symbolism

[@nunosantos485]

I think it’s beautiful just the way it is

[@markrichards6863]

It's a seal on a bed sheet.

[@markrichards6863]

It looks like a surrender flag with some blue schmoots in the middle.

[@alboss52]

Blue and a white star

[@aubreygraham5821]

Way to basic

[@Aidenthegobbleygourd]

Yes

[@PostalWorker14]

How about a pilgrim

[@visasum6496]

1:35

[@visasum6496]

1:30

[@visasum6496]

1:39

[@visasum6496]

1:45

[@adriancamacho4766]

I say the flag needs a change not for the sake of being pc, but because the flag is awful and boring.

[@dennis3351]

Adrian hows this. you know nothing.

[@adriancamacho4766]

@@dennis3351 I politely decline your offer.

[@codiepereira636]

Please don't change the flag of my state

[@ummohammed8225]

What state

[@linhtrinh38]

@@ummohammed8225 Massachussets

[@markrichards6863]

Change is scary for you, but I'm sure you can adjust.

[@animatedfox5076]

I say fucking no!

[@dennis3351]

we have to scream in thier face fucking no

[@pav3359]

As a Massachusetts resident, I think the flag should be changed. HOWEVER, not due to racism. While I can see the argument, its just unconvincing. But from a design perspective, it's a S.O.B. and doesn't look very good. The flag must be changed! However, when it comes to the heraldry depicted on the flag, keep it, perhaps replacing the arm with sword with a phrygian cap, a symbol of liberty. As far as the flag goes, perhaps change it to the pre-1970s flag, with six stars forming a circle around the crest representing Massachusetts' ratification of the Constitution. Boom, fixed.

[@pixiedenehy8713]

Read the comment from Nick Allain and then see if you still want to change it. There are a lot of flags that are ugly that's no reason to change them. But when you find out what the symbolism of the flag really stands for it's another story.

[@loreplatas2448]

Stop it!

[@dennis3351]

keep the native or else they lied and never was to honor native peoples. the native flag looks perfect. if the sword is the issue all along for these extremist, then just remove the sword. boom fixed.

[@peteg475]

@@pixiedenehy8713 "There are a lot of flags that are ugly that's no reason to change them." That's an excellent reason to change them. Almost all the iconic state flags have simple, strong designs that the citizenry takes actual pride in. Texas, Arizona, Colorado, Maryland. "Stick the State seal on a flat color" has always been lazy in every state that has one, and citizens feel no real connection to it. You can keep the State Seal the way it is, just don't put it on a flag.

[@Polskie573]

i agree it needs more color so yeah

[@carlsullivan6494]

Damn bro. Now we gotta change this AND Faniul Hall. Well, we already learned we can't rely on the mayor to do this. Maybe Gov Baker will step in and do what's right.

[@Polskie573]

i wish he could but now we have hailey who can't do a thing

[@richarddepaulo8842]

♦️It is a gorgeous flag with absolutely nothing wrong with it, It is used every where across state on many things. Costly change over - change all police badges with state seal on them etc… all seals of all cities and towns etc.. - costs a lot - gain nothing- new flag will be a great take down - note alla cross history civil war etc- flag is in all old movies and shows - ♦️It is a gorgeous flag with absolutely nothing wrong with it, It is used every where across state on many things. Costly change over - change all police badges with state seal on them etc… all seals of all cities and towns etc.. - costs a lot - gain nothing- new flag will be a great take down - note alla cross history civil war etc- flag is in all old movies and shows - if changed dumb new generations of people that never took history class in school will not know the flag the state had etc,,, - Leave it alone -> ♦️The sword is not that of Myles Standish.♦️ The sword represents peace. ♦️It is used world wide on flags all across teh globe. Translated, the motto is, “By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.” Above the shield is an arm holding a sword with the blade up - a reminder of the liberty that was won through the American Revolution. n a white field is a blue shield emblazoned with the image of a Native American, Massachussets. He holds a bow in one hand and an arrow in the other. The arrow is pointing downward representing peace. The white star represents Massachusetts as one of the original thirteen states. = The Indian appears in gold on a blue shield together with a silver star indicative of statehood. The arm and sword in the crest, together with the Latin motto on the surrounding ribbon-“Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem” (“By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty”)-refer to lines written in the 17th century by the English politician Algernon Sidney. The coat of arms on a white field was used as regimental colors by many Massachusetts troops prior to 1908. "With a sword, she seeks quiet peace under liberty." ♦️Although the looser English translation more commonly used is, "By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty." Above the shield is the state military crest: a bent arm holding a broad sword aloft. ♦️The sword has its blade up, to remind that it was through the American Revolution that independence was won, and that the State is at peace and not at war. - position of the blade being up means “ Peace” unlike downward blade - sword is ay sword it doesn’t mean nor have to be Myles Standish Sword - also Myles Standish had many swords not one - and the sword and its flag related meaning was used all over the globe on seals and fags to mean the same thing - common practice of the times. ♦️♦️Remember♦️♦️there was a time in colony days that we had spoons and ate with sword tips ; forks did not exist they were last to come - none on Mayflower, None in country or world until many years later. Unfortunately so many young people have such small history class time they spend the entire school time frame else where and never get to learn anything else. Best Wishes ! if changed dumb new generations of people that never took history class in school will not know the flag the state had etc,,, - Leave it alone -> ♦️The sword is not that of Myles Standish.♦️ The sword represents peace. ♦️It is used world wide on flags all across teh globe. Translated, the motto is, “By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.” Above the shield is an arm holding a sword with the blade up - a reminder of the liberty that was won through the American Revolution. n a white field is a blue shield emblazoned with the image of a Native American, Massachussets. He holds a bow in one hand and an arrow in the other. The arrow is pointing downward representing peace. The white star represents Massachusetts as one of the original thirteen states. = The Indian appears in gold on a blue shield together with a silver star indicative of statehood. The arm and sword in the crest, together with the Latin motto on the surrounding ribbon-“Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem” (“By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty”)-refer to lines written in the 17th century by the English politician Algernon Sidney. The coat of arms on a white field was used as regimental colors by many Massachusetts troops prior to 1908. "With a sword, she seeks quiet peace under liberty." ♦️Although the looser English translation more commonly used is, "By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty." Above the shield is the state military crest: a bent arm holding a broad sword aloft. ♦️The sword has its blade up, to remind that it was through the American Revolution that independence was won, and that the State is at peace and not at war. - position of the blade being up means “ Peace” unlike downward blade - sword is ay sword it doesn’t mean nor have to be Myles Standish Sword - also Myles Standish had many swords not one - and the sword and its flag related meaning was used all over the globe on seals and fags to mean the same thing - common practice of the times. ♦️♦️Remember♦️♦️there was a time in colony days that we had spoons and ate with sword tips ; forks did not exist they were last to come - none on Mayflower, None in country or world until many years later. Unfortunately so many young people have such small history class time they spend the entire school time frame else where and never get to learn anything else. Best Wishes !

[@RebelFNOS]

No it's not just that it's also that they've stopped teaching about it in school for more 'woke' liberal bullshit I'm 16 I come from Massachusetts so when I saw them calling the flag I call my own "racist" I did research into the meanings of it and when I read about the meanings of each part on the flag i realized it's just more of those liberals that wanna change history to there own views of it

[@dennis3351]

@@RebelFNOS your intelligent at 16 now 18 Teh Grimm Rebel. you got it correct.

[@cynikals]

The state flag is pretty ugly I’d change it to something people would be proud to fly.

[@dennis3351]

like your profile disaster?

[@randommemesweekly4417]

oh great, now my home state's flag is offensive? STOP BEING OFFENDED BY EVERYTHING!

[@markrichards6863]

I agree with your point, but the flag is not attractive. So open up a design competition and see what people come up with.

[@Polskie573]

fr

[@markrichards6863]

I don't find it offensive. I just think it's poorly designed, like a white surrender flag with a tacky state seal in the middle. There really isn't and design to it, a real dud.

[@N8Harris99]

Just make the flag the patriots logo

[@kylerk576]

Yesss 🤩

[@TheMrPeteChannel]

God no.

[@dixie_cody0195]

Bro people are so freakin soft bro I’ve never seen this flag cut someone’s head off nor have I ever seen Mississippi’s flag call someone a racist slur. What happened to “ITS JUST A PIECE OF FABRIC”

[@Massguy86]

Symbols matter. I mean, the bald eagle is just a symbol, right?

[@dixie_cody0195]

@@Massguy86 bruh what does a bald eagle have to do with this

[@k.c.9397]

@@Massguy86 the bald eagle is a subspecies of the original avian, dumbass

[@Polskie573]

i agree plus it was THE BATTLE FLAG IT DOESN'T MEAN A DAMN THING

[@dennis3351]

just say Northampton with Lindsay Sabadosa says enough. Northampton region is the furthest progressive hole other than San Francisco in the world. A ''few '' minority of no life instigators need a real life. The values Sabadosa of this state are in the Native on the flag. If you support natives then its the Native. if the sword keeps you up all nights with insomnia fretting just erase the sword. otherwise Sabadosa you lie about honoring the native. You may say a symbol representing the values of a Northampton is the cannabis flag.