Should Residents Unionize? | Loma Linda Lawsuit Explained

It’s no secret that residency is difficult; however, many people (especially those outside of medicine) often don’t realize just how difficult it is. With issues such as low pay, overwork, and burnout being common, many residents have begun unionizing in an attempt to change things for the better. While many hospitals have attempted to stop these efforts, one program, in particular, has taken things to another level. Let’s talk about the situation and what it means for residents and medical education as a whole!
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Introduction
00:54 - Why Unionize?
03:47 - Loma Linda vs Resident Unions
06:13 - Why Was This Situation Problematic?
LINKS FROM VIDEO:
The Podcast by KevinMD: kevinmd.com/podcast
The Unionization of Doctors in Residency: • The Unionization of Do...
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#doctorvlog #medstudent #residency
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Disclaimer: Content of this video is my opinion and does not constitute medical advice. The content and associated links provide general information for general educational purposes only. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. Kevin Jubbal, M.D. will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of information contained in this video including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness or death. May include affiliate links to Amazon. As an Amazon Associate, I may earn a commission on qualifying purchases made through them (at no extra cost to you).

[@kevinjubbalmd]

What is the #1 pain point you would to improve at your residency program? 🥼📝 Let me know below!

[@erinnorwood6124]

Rest (flexible/shorter schedule), mental health and disability accommodations are things that will help me choose my med school

[@kaylakinker7823]

Salary. All of our lives would be better if we had a living wage.

[@captainsavem]

glad to see someone giving the residents a voice. its sad a lot of residents dont understand their worth. many hospital systems would collapse if residents were to strike or stop working suddenly. but with such a high financial, time, and personal cost, residents are trapped to completion of residency to repay huge debts.

[@kvandenburg]

I'm a current MS1 at Loma Linda and can't yet share the perspective of residents or students in their clinical years. Still, I know of classmates who are already planning to move to a different regional campus during their 3rd and 4th years at LLU because they are concerned about how the hospital might address this residency controversy moving forward. I appreciate you for bringing light to the issue and explaining how it sets precedence for future cases!

[@captainsavem]

isnt loma linda the hospital where 2 anesthesiology residents and 1 psychiatry resident committed suicide?

[@davidlakhter]

great content! 2:09 that's insane how average GME payment was upwards of 150k per resident - that would be a HUGE win if residency salaries were increased to 6-figures. At a minimum that would help alleviate the burden of insane medical school debt as a factor in residency burnout. At a more base-level, that would encourage more students to get into the field because you're actually respected for your time and that can help in lifestyle during that period while your peers may be earning 6-figures easily in other healthcare careers, etc

[@keisha2778]

We had another resident take their life at our facility. There should be union for the baby docs. These kids should not be burnt out to the point that they take their life after working soooo hard to graduate Med school to be a doc.

[@arnold8047]

I went to an Loma Linda parents visit w/ my friend’s parents. During the speech, everyone started talking and word started spreading that on that day a medical student and a resident committed suicide and the staff was trying to save face. I believe this was back in 2017. Long hours and stressful situations with “self awareness modules” and little to no pay is utterly disgusting.

[@babymarxist2287]

Thank you for making a video on unionizing. As the number of unionizing efforts increase in the US across many industries, it is important for people to understand what unions are and why they form. This is 100% a class issue. There is the capitalist class -- a minority of people at the top who profit off of the value generated by laborers -- and the working class -- a majority of people who have no choice but to sell their labor power in exchange for a wage in order to survive. The capitalists of the hospital is fundamentally operating in accordance with their own class interest, which is why they will go to the lengths of suing the NLRB to prevent a union from forming in the hospital. Unions are favorable to the working class because they are then able to collectively withhold their labor and stop the capitalists' ability to make profits by coordinating strikes to demand for better working conditions, higher salaries, and other systemic changes. Because capitalists are only interested in maximizing profits, workers must be the ones to force capitalists to make positive changes that are not profitable.

[@learningwithlanden]

Wow! I thought that, because most residents’ paychecks are federally funded, they would never unionize. However, I didn’t think about hospital changes (e.g., work hour reductions) that could benefit residents. Thanks for explaining the topic well 👍

[@captainsavem]

residents are paid near minimum wage levels and underpaid compared to most PA and NP midlevels. they also work double the hours, usually get the more challenging cases. hospital systems rely on medicare/medicaid funded residency programs for extremely cheap labor. hospitals are basically businesses. residents have no choice but to grind through because its their only hope of becoming attendings. its actually really sad because most residents are plagued by student debt that could range from 0 to $1MM+.

[@learningwithlanden]

@@captainsavem Well said for a majority of residents - residents are genuinely servants to healthcare.

[@TuneRx]

I'm so glad to hear the lawsuit against the NLRB got denied. I'm a family physician who graduated from residency last year and definitely agree that residents unionizing is a step in the right direction. Sadly, I think many programs would continue to mistreat residents even more if laws weren't enforced. The reality remains that many hospitals view residents as cheap labor from which they can make profit.

[@shelleyseokim]

i didn't know you went to loma linda!! i go there as a current med student! thanks for the video :)

[@kaylakinker7823]

I bet if you added up the number of hours per week I am actually logged into and active on epic, those hours alone would be greater than 80/week and they don't even include the hours I'm at the bedside and running around between units.

[@survivalofthebitches971]

If residents actually would be treated fairly, some heads would make less money thats the reason

[@Jimbojambo6523]

Isn't the amount hospitals get per resident from ACGME funding based heavily on the percentage of Medicare patients they see? So if the total percentage of Medicare patients they see is only 40%, hospitals are only getting 40% of that possible 115k.

[@sneezedoc1]

⭐⭐⭐

[@avip9]

who else read onionize

[@grantsajdak8176]

This was quite one sided. There are negatives for residents and the community as well. E.g. as a surgery resident, cutting hours will potentially undercut the amount of surgeries we perform and either extend our residency length or worsen our competence.

[@kevinjubbalmd]

Interesting counterpoint, but I would disagree with this specific example.

[@grantsajdak8176]

@@kevinjubbalmdI also understand the sentiments of the residents, but to strike here, the resident to attending ration generally is 6:1 in the services I’ve been on. A strike would literally be killing people. I don’t know where the balance is, but unions are scary in the context of medicine for the community of San Bernardino being served.

[@ricahighers5491]

Unionized residents have never cut or interfered with program specific needs for training. There are tons of surgery residents who are unionized who are quite protective of their training needs/requirements per acgme. However, what union surgical residents have advocated for are fair compensation, safety concerns, and other things like employer provided equipment.

[@peterkleve3529]

I'm not a religious person, certainly wouldnt advertise religious beliefs in public, but - referencing 5:10 - what part of Jesus' teachings exactly spoke against collective bargaining? The man was practically a socialist, and good on him in that regard

[@adegun10]

Just curious as to what scriptures you would cite to support this claim?

[@danielh1830]

And they still killed him. A socialist? Get real.

[@rogerseheult1312]

For those interested. The stance taken by Loma Linda against labor unions is not one made capriciously or even recently. The founder of the institution over 100 years ago wrote much against unionization and the effects it would have on the mission of the institution (originally named The College of Medical Evangelists). This video obviously has its bias but if you are interested in understanding why those who might attend this university (even as students or residents) might actually oppose unionization you might look up the writings of Ellen G. White on unionization. That’s not to say that she today would not be in favor of better working conditions, but her ideal would be for this to happen with prayer and understanding on both sides and in the spirit of Christ. I would post the link to what she says but I think that would exclude my comment. You can Google it if necessary.

[@nenefry8502]

You didn't cover the down sides of unionization. Huge union fees up front. When you start they take initiation dues. Then each pay check hundred dollars. The residents might get work rules such as guaranteed 30 minute meal each shift and another 15 minute break but the medical students doing rotations do not get. They might be looking for the resident and they are in the union rule meal time. See the potential problems with unionized and non unionized trying to work together ?

[@kevinjubbalmd]

I should have covered more of the downsides, fair point

[@ricahighers5491]

The “fees” youre referring to are union dues and they go directly to support the union in negotiating contracts, enforcing contracts, paying for legal fees fir arbitration and support for representation and organizing. They are taken out of each paycheck (they do not come out upfront) and they are a VERY SMALL percentage (usually 1-2%). Without dues you dont have the staff and infrastructure to have a strong union period. There are no downsides to forming a union- if you dont like having a voice in your workplace or having a say over your working conditions then I suppose that might be a downside for you. Without a union residents are forced to work ungodly and insane working conditions with very little pay or respect. The only thing that could even be remotely considered a “downside” is your employer choosing to make it difficult for you to unionize (which is your right to do!) because it will change the power dynamics in a workplace- before a union they simply dictate what you have to do. With a union they must negotiate. Its that simple.

[@alfredodelcastillomorales3070]

Are u training ur neck? It looks buffer 👍

[@marving8907]

You doctors have soft hands. I’ve been working 20 hr shifts as a coal miner for the past 35 years and never complained about “working conditions”

[@dry.colton]

Maybe your lack of complaining is why you're doing the same thing 35 years later.

[@appollo1826]

@@dry.colton I think he like or love his job. Most of this is just complaining but hey who am Im to judge. You get the six figure pay and then what? In next 10 to 20 years do the next generation complain for more while you call them lazy. Seem like a cycle of entitlement. Also, I keep hearing about this paying your tuition when I see new doctors with new cars, and new condos or home with a family. Maybe if you stop spending so much so early, the tuition will no problem. You shouldn't have that debt after 10 plus years but most do.

[@jem3122]

You’re literally comparing generations. Obviously they have their own struggles and issues and they should stand up for themselves for what is right! Not saying anything and just dealing with shit is soft

[@marving8907]

@@dry.colton bruh the comment was a joke lmao. Have u not seen the u got soft hands brother.

[@dry.colton]

@@marving8907 no lol

[@danielh1830]

I get that you are advocating for your position and ideology, but you did a very poor job of articulating the argument for or against LLUH. The document you cite at the 5-min mark is cherry-picked by you and doesn't complete the full position of LLUH. The National Labor Board proposes to be an "independent federal agency," but its clear that it's bias toward unions dismisses any semblance of objectivity. Given the merits argued by LLUH in greater detail is evident that any benefits the residents hope to obtained from this vote, will be tied up in federal courts for years. Moreover, your references to "loop holes" is disingenuous, as the three-prong test cited in the document you selectively chose from, makes it clear that LLUH falls under the strict criteria of what is a religious institution - therefore, your argument that LLUH's success will result in multiple hospitals following suit is baseless. You make a lot of invalid inferences and conclusions that are simply based on, "because I said so." Will you disclose that less that 50% of residents actually voted? If you want any level of credibility you would do well in giving a more comprehensive view of this and other cases. Otherwise, you're just another KZbinr trying to generate money on simple-minded premises.