Should these pedals be banned?

➡️️Discord: / discord
➡️️Instagram: / randomcallsign
➡️️Twitter: / randomcallsign
➡️️Business email: [e-mail]
Support the channel by using the affiliate links ( I get a percentage of the sale):
➡️️Fanatec:
EU/UK: fanatec.com/eu...
US/CAN: fanateccom/us-en/?FAP+Banner&General+Links&a_aid=randomcallsign
AUS: fanatec.com/au...
JP: fanatec.com/ja...
➡️️GTOMEGA: bit.ly/36FUnDq 5% discount with code RANDOM
➡️️Race Anywhere: www.raceanywhe... (use code RC5 for 5% discount)
➡️️MOZA mozaracing.com...
➡️️HYMO www.tracktitan...

[@randomcallsign]

Regardless of the software, these pedals look exceptional and I would love to try them out. How about you?

[@chrisc3825]

Blocking them from a game is probably difficult as you can modify driver files to hide what you're running. I would think games will need to no longer provider ABS and TC data.

[@pxelprime]

I think there might be merits to something like this when it becomes a standard and is adopted by pedals at different price ranges. I guess at this point developers will have to choose if they allow it in their game or not. Either way, the pedals themselves look great

[@scottmeredith3359]

Nope. This product literally undermines the sporting integrity of the hobby their business success relies on. They know if they have a product that provides a significant advantage, people will overlook the ethics of it because they’ll feel they have to have it if their competitors do. Not sure why you feel people shouldn’t express that to this company, they are cashing in on simracing while simultaneously creating controversy and sporting issues. Not something a company who truly cares about sim racing would do… it’s a cash grab.

[@SupernovaeTech]

​​@@scottmeredith3359It is a good business decision as it brings the product to market with a unique feature. It's also quite an interesting feature implementation on a technical level. I don't think it's good for competitive racing but for offline racing I don't think it's bad to have as an option. You may not want to use the option but I'm sure some people would be interested in that even outside competitive racing.

[@bryangk42]

Sure the conspit hardware looks good but if we start using software to control our driving inputs, then what's left in sim racing? It'll just end up being a bunch of bots racing against each other while humans take the "glory". That sounds insane and completely uninteresting.

[@warlord13000]

Sounds like aim assist in fps games

[@FirssenSimracing]

It's not automatic tho... Any AI input here, user needs to set anything himself.

[@snippidippi]

But we all now esporters in sim racing is looking for cheats/glitches and shortcuts to be the fastest so what does this pedal software make any difference? 😂

[@Lukkaa35]

@@FirssenSimracing neither are cheats in FPS games, you still have to fine tune a lot of the settings and it requires a decent amount of knowledge to set them up and use them properly

[@FirssenSimracing]

@@Lukkaa35 literally noone would use any cheats if u need to adjust them... What would be the point of that? It's a kids tool, must be simple to use.

[@dawidmelnarowicz5751]

Similiar thing was in a trackmania not so long ago, where developer banned using one specific features of analog keyboards - you could map any given key to be pressed at specific percentage (similiar to max brake threshold like you explained) because it was giving MASSIVE competitve advantage. You can still use analog keyboard, but on normal 0-100% scale. You can't do custom percentage binding like this anymore.

[@randomcallsign]

is that the wooting thing like @podio_km4g532 was saying?

[@dawidmelnarowicz5751]

@@randomcallsign I think so. Not sure about Wooting thing (just Google that they're going analog keyboards), it was more about technology and method of achieving performance as a whole, not specific brand

[@hypnotiq]

Wirtual moment

[@warlord13000]

This seems to be a common trend in gaming in general.. aim assist in fps games getting stronger.. xims/chronus contronlling reacoil.. fighting games adding single button combos.. it was only a matter of time. Player retention seems to be the priority over integrity. I doubt anything will be done

[@hypnotiq]

the unfortunate truth tbh

[@ryanwellington7493]

Vote with your wallet, don't support these watered down games made for mass appeal.

[@DakotaPT]

i've seen something like this before, with nadeo on trackmania, regarding action keys, allowing players to set input % while using the action keys, giving them advantage in specific situations, like bobsleigh, where 37% of steering gives you more speed while going for an WR per example... After a "scandal" with Wirtual and a WR, they (nadeo) sent a warning out there as they would be looking and analysing from that date, the World Records, for those kind of inputs, and the possible use of action keys (it was used via keyboard Software).... and this functionality in the conspit software is even more hardcore than the action key assuming from what i just saw... so iracing should be really aware of this... otherwise it is gonna be software vs software instead of player vs player in the future...

[@Lukkaa35]

if a computer does a thing for you, it's cheating doesn't matter if you do it with the gear you have or an app

[@RonVelRonnie]

It matters because how will you ban someone using something they purchased? ;) You can then say that someone using a Simucube 2 base gets illegal advantage over Logitech G25 user because he feels more.

[@Lukkaa35]

@@RonVelRonnie No, the launch control thing is literally software doing a thing for you, you get perfect launched with little to no input, you still have to handle a simucube wheel and do the driving bit, it’s not literally doing a thing for you

[@pxelprime]

@@RonVelRonnieVery good point. Gotta figure out where to draw the line. A DD wheel with load cell pedals is going to be a huge advantage over a non force-feedback wheel set...

[@RonVelRonnie]

@@Lukkaa35 Sure, then again we can get away from that take and use Simucube Active Pedals which are using software to translate inputs from the game to give you information regarding grip. It is showing you when you are about to lock up or lose grip in traction zone. Not having those pedals is giving you disadvantage. Then again you will say: But they are not preventing you from not getting into ABS or TC, you still need to manage it yourself, but then you still have a tangible advantage over people with passive pedals. :) It's really not as simple. If it was a bot that does things for you in corners like automatically changing your brake bias on the fly to get maximum braking potential, I would agree because on a track with 20 corners after 50 laps you have 1000 times when that bot has helped you. Whereas this software just helps you one time... on the start where you can be stopped, hit by someone else who has a worse start than you in front of you.

[@RonVelRonnie]

@@pxelprime Interesting times we live in, eh? ;)

[@oppos727]

I love how in-depth and comprehensive your take on this subject is! Very good points across the board

[@erikgonzalez2486]

That’s why for me personally I don’t care about winning, I try to imitate real driving and improve, I know there’s cheaters out there and if you’re a cheater your never a real winner regardless of 1st place lol

[@carlosdiegues4404]

You can do all of this without any pro pedals software... Vjoy macros and stuff. Brake limiting in iracing in brasil at least since 2016. Tc off repeat in macro in old iracing. The worst is live telemetry output... So you can toggle tc and abs. Alot of stuff going on. Until you have a full trust chain from certified hardware and a clean windows image provided by some organization, you can forget about fair racing. Enjoy the moments you get and dont think too much about it. Pastel de nata!

[@longnamedude3947]

Nice to see someone with an actual understanding of how common this is actually commenting on the matter. This isn't new to gaming or Sim Racing, and, You can easily control this if so required for professional and competition events by taking full control of the software & hardware stack as the competition provider. It's exactly what's starting to happen in professional events for other games like Dota 2, League of Legends, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive (and now CS2), etc. They provide you with branded hardware, you don't get to use your own hardware or software, no USB Sticks or anything else that has the potential to manipulate your computer/console or it's inputs.

[@DunnoTmind]

I think I see this pretty much like the Williams F1 Team inserting the active suspension back in the days. I dont know what gonna happen from here but it triggers me a bit simply because when I upgrade my gear in some future for a V2 pedals in this case, maybe on that time will be kinda hard being competitive if this goes on. But forgeting about the big competitions I think on the normal days most of the sim drivers will not purchase something like this or at least use this type of features. Maybe with some system of controll of hacks softwares and stuff being ready to read this type of software and at least make harder for the most of consumers use this.

[@gabornemeth522]

To get rid of software like this you would have to get rid of openly available car telemetry/shared memory access in the sims, possibly even virtual input devices. I don't think that's a good idea.

[@flipcoin6301]

It automates the clutch bite point to a macro key. It does not take into account wheel slip(traction), so it’s Not a true Launch Control.

[@BigBawMcGraw]

Dave Cam did a follow-up video where he manually dumped the clutch and was faster than using the 'cheat'. I agree it is a bit of a cheat because it will give a consistent result, but it's not necessarily the fastest way to start.

[@telmo_a]

I agree: if it offers something that isn’t available in real life, it’s not quite ok. Launch control would be ok only if coded in the sim for cars that have it for real. These types of aids can also be made very hard to detect, by building a bit of randomness into the algorithms. So, in the end, the best prevention is to promote a good sim racing culture - which is what this video does.

[@OutLanderUSN]

Launch control is a thing in real life. There is an argument to be made that it should only be allowed in the cars where it exists in the real thing.

[@heikoscheuermann]

It is a BIG thing in real life. There are even roadcars that have it and not just a few.

[@heikoscheuermann]

@@OutLanderUSN I guess i could live with that as long as it is in the sim itself the same way some cars have abs and some don't have abs.

[@Vindisify]

I'm pretty sure this can be done in software alone so you don't need the pedals. As I see it it's cheating and should not be allowed. But as you said, it's hard to police. One way would be to look at the inputs and check if it looks human or not, but this might give us some false positives which ofc is bad.

[@colinhughessimracing2757]

This is very worrying, anything that take control away from the driver I'm against. However like you said how could you police it you can't unfortunately they are out there in the wild so it's already to late 😢

[@lFrontal]

In his 2nd video about the pedals he did manage to be a fair bit quicker than the launch control feature using a manual clutch pedal with his foot so it might not be that big of a problem

[@Starmast3rmusic]

True, but who's saying that they can't improve the software to be better? Who's also to say that the software assist isn't already better than anybody but the pros? I feel like it's a slippery slope.

[@lFrontal]

@@Starmast3rmusic Absolutely, I can see this turning into people selling their best settings for this launch macro kinda like people sell scripts and cheats online. Definitely has the potential to be bad for the hobby if more companies start doing stuff like this. But right now I don’t think anyone is buying a set of pedals specifically because it has a launch macro

[@del7896]

Him doing that test is a bit dishonest and, I feel, trying to calm the "outrage" a little bit. You can configure the clutch release, so if you manage to get the perfect launch with your left foot, you can just replicate that in the software and get the perfect launch every time. Or you can adjust the release by 1 % and see if that's 0.003 s faster, something you can't really do with your foot (but can do with a dual clutch system). Well, it doesn't seem to allow configuring a manual curve, but close (and, crucially, consistent) enough for it to be valuable to everyone chasing victory through any means necessary.

[@AidanMillward]

The ini file thing is something everyone can do. So I don’t consider that off limits.

[@colinhughessimracing2757]

It's the age old question of just because you can dosnt mean you should 🤷🏻

[@longnamedude3947]

What if I want to hold an event where anything is allowed no matter how big an advantage it gives you just so I can see what assistive techniques are the best between me & my friends? In professional events the event holder can control everything, but for any other situation it should be the user that gets to decide.

[@tech-eddy]

4:33 a wheel for 199 with an Qr for 199 ... whaaaat... crazy. (not your fault) my Wheel 1400 with QR under 40€... but works absolute fine

[@LeoDavidson]

So is this the same as setting clutch bite point on a formula/gt3 style rim, or is it doing more? Given SimHub and CrewChief both know when the race has started, I could see a company using telemetry data to let you hold the throttle before the start of the race and launch exactly when it begins. That'd definitely be a cheat. But if it's just letting you do stuff on pedals that you can already do on some rims then I think it's kinda meh to use it in terms of authenticity but also levels the field against people who are already using it via other methods. Perhaps it should be allowed for amateurs but less so for more serious races, similar to other driving aids.

[@longnamedude3947]

The question here is this; Should the user be allowed to control what driver aids they have access to in a competitive race? And I feel that the answer to that question is simple: No. The decision for what driver aids you should be allowed access to in COMPETITION racing should be controlled by the people hosting the event and nobody else. If you are recreating an event or class race and in real life your particular car was equipped with Traction Control & Launch Control but not ABS, but your opponents car has ABS but a less effective (slower) Launch Control & no Traction Control, then as long as neither car is breaking the historic accuracy of the PROFESSIONAL COMPETITION EVENT then I see no problems with these assists being allowed. In all other NON-COMPETITION situations it should be entirely up to the user to decide if they want to have ANY of these software-based driver assist I've technologies, it should ALWAYS be the USER who decides WHAT THEY WANT, and not the game developer! Not everyone does competition or professional racing, a lot of people just drive and race for the fun of it, and for those people (like myself) it should be us/me that controls what assistance I can enable and disable in races. You could easily detect if someone was cheating just by tracking their inputs via telemetry, that's not at all difficult to do. But this tracking of these features is only something that should be relevant in PROFESSIONAL or OFFICIAL COMPETITION EVENTS where it is CRITICAL that everyone is placed on an even playing field, either by being all in the same car with the same assistance available or by being in different cars with realistic assist I've features only available to the cars which would have had it. Again all of this could easily be controlled SERVER-SIDE ONLY! in a professional or competition event with NO NEED for invasive Anti-Cheat solutions which go snooping around my computer like a foreign spy working for the military or secret police. This situation is being made out to be a bigger problem than it really is, solutions to stop this from being an issue in competition and professional events already exist.

[@podio_km4g532]

This is 100% gonna become a wooting like situation

[@hddbc5787]

always trippy seeing someone you know in a random comments section

[@podio_km4g532]

@@hddbc5787 yeah

[@neblolthecarnerd]

Id say if it isn't a realism style assist it should be banned if it isn't publicly available for every player and trackable like in game assists. I don't agree with this system but im fine with force feedback pedals, the clutches on more expensive rims, etc. Even though realistically ill be at a disadvantage for those existing because im just on a g29.

[@EmoDKTsuchiya]

Just hurry up and replace us with AI already 😂

[@randomcallsign]

i for one welcome our silcone based overlords

[@lewisgordon1490]

In this case, yes this would be a clear "cheat" IMO. Racing is full of racers and teams looking for tricks to make them faster. It is largely why the rules keep changing, but the desire to find every advantage possible w/in the rules is an essential part of the sport IMO. But when a device gives such a huge advantage that others have no chance of replicating something similar, kills the competition, or becomes too much pay-to-win, it needs to be adjusted IMO by changing the rules. Where I have the biggest problem is pay-to-win & where there is no comparable use IRL. One time that really stands out for me is when F1 banned automatically adjusting suspension. I remember part of their reasoning was if there was a technical failure or miscommunication between the driver & the pits the car could have drastically different handling when entering a corner (I think I remember at least one case where that caused a crash).

[@scottmeredith3359]

Hell no. That’s just a cheat mode. iRacing should ban their software in the anti-cheat. If sim racing hardware goes this way it will be an equipment arms race where you’ll never be competitive without thousands spent on hardware that removes the driver skill. And that company SHOULD take some heat for it, they know consumers will buy their product specifically for that competitive advantage, however much they make it sound like an “unlockable skill”. Automatic launch control should only be available in cars that actually have that in real life, and accessible through the simulator software for everyone. Just look what a huge cheat this would be in the 992 cup car.

[@tver]

Now everyone can be Toad in Mario Kart.

[@AtomicAndi]

The race is won BEFORE Turn 1!

[@mrmidnight32]

Might as well all be racing Tesla auto drive systems if we keep going.

[@goobytron2888]

AimBot for sim racing. Theoretically you could set up the steering wheel and pedals to drive for you and you wouldn’t even have to be there anymore.

[@old-simracing-rookie]

I have conspit cpp lite with simhub version of software and THIS simhub version doesnt support launch control… that means there is a version of software that can be used without launch control :)

[@manfredlafs8472]

Youre saying dual Clutch is emulating something in realife, Launch controll so to?

[@Eskoxo]

Those who cheat will always find a way to do so but this is not something you could realistically ban im sure there is plenty of software that does similar thing in pretty much any game not just racing just look at something like xim using mouse and keyboard on consoles in fps games.

[@SticksAandstonesBozo]

Mind boggling they even thought this was a good idea to make.

[@WeAreChecking]

I personally don't care too terribly much about this. I got into sim-racing to become a better driver. The only person getting "cheated" here is the person choosing to use this feature. Are people that concerned with winning over all else. Maybe if we wanted to there might be a way to have a separate "assist" toggle if this is detected, to essentially flag runs that use this. But honestly, I'd rather see development effort in sims going into other, more important things like physics and content. Sure it may mean that you lose a few more races but surely I'm not alone in that I prefer good battles and seeing my own personal lap times improve more than simply winning a race. Fighting against software is a battle that you'll always lose, especially if it's coming from the hardware side of things like these pedals are. Either way, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

[@FirssenSimracing]

But u still need to adjust anything from bite point to release times so I don't see any deal here... Esecially if u don't win races on first lap...

[@rogerwennstrom6677]

Watched the video but I still don't have a clue about how this software actually *works*. Does it read input from the game and then somehow apply that info back to the pedal input? Then it clearly is cheating. Is it more like a hard-coded "macro" that releases the clutch in a computer-controlled fashion in the same way every time? Then it might not be as clear cut.

[@thiagoods021]

It's the second scenario. Dave Cam explained in his full review, but maybe RC didn't watch it.

[@bostonDK]

I bought these for the hardware , they have allot to offer for the price, very similar to simagic p1000 . I tried them and they feel really good, I am not interested at all in the launch control.

[@JMak02]

You know sim racing getting pretty serious when companies are adding option 13 to their software for products

[@kesh_r]

Hardware shouldn’t be doing by such things. It’s becoming pay to win at this point

[@ryanwellington7493]

Anything that takes skill away from the user should be banned when it comes to competition imo.

[@RobinHood-yk8og]

"Everybody says 'if you use our stuff you're gonna be faster'... but in this case..." No. It's still just hype. It doesnt give 'perfect' acceleration. It offers a very consistent and configurable clutch release time. There is no automatic throttle modulation. There is no 'curve' to the clutch release. There is no traction control. If you get the settings wrong, you get a bad start. If you practice manual launching, you will get better acceleration. Dave Cam did a follow up video where this was confirmed. With practice, his manual launches were 2/10ths faster than CONSPIT. On top of all that.... everything this software does can be done, just as imperfectly, with other keymapping tools... vJoy, Gremlin, AHK et al. And on top of that.. iRacing, along with most other games/sims, already have throttle & braking assistance in the options menu.

[@jc74435]

Ultimate "Pay to Win"

[@DouglasThompson]

I don't even like traction control so I don't like this at all.

[@OutLanderUSN]

Nah. Launch control is a real thing that exists, and it does the same thing: it allows you to launch consistently from a standing start. There is an argument to be made that it should only be allowed to be used if it's in the real life equivalent, but outright banned? Nah.

[@jesterapp]

Cheating? My bike has launch control in real life and it's all software based. Kids on the block never accuse me of cheating. They just go damn and swear they'll buy a European bike next...

[@nunopinheiro75]

They will sell like hot cakes

[@ghhoward]

Auto Launch is possible in real cars as well.

[@mattmattmatt131313]

True... but this only matters if you care about competitive multiplayer... ... which you shouldn't... ... Good bye.

[@SrBiggus]

i would consider it cheating tbh

[@seattime4075]

So what about abs and TC. Is that cheating?

[@randomcallsign]

If a piece of hardware adds it without it being possible to be used in the game, sure

[@JallyTee]

100% a cheat, I'm worried that all this focus on devices to get an unfair advantage will push this hobby out of the interest of new players looking for a challenge. This will kill sim racing very quickly

[@Shoniforce]

No, this and moza's auto blip is bad imo. no reason to have it.

[@danut05]

Yes!

[@jeanvaljean3045]

Cheat 100%. It kills the spirit of what is supposed to be a sim and I'm not even sim racing yet but those are my 2 cents.

[@wayneheaney6271]

If you gona get that may aswell race a tesla 😂

[@Gr00t]

It's 100% cheating plain and simple.

[@manuelbatterman4232]

Not realistic so not good

[@GeorgeFoulerRacing]

Cheat

[@liamhaswell4040]

But if a european company devised this software, such as your beloved Fanatec or Asetek, you'd be the first to suck them off, exalting this next step in simracing technology.