Should you capture video with ATI 600 or MiniDV camcorder?

Should you transfer your home movie tapes from a Hi8 camcorder using the ATI TV Wonder 600 capture card or the Sony MiniDV camcorder as a capture device? We compare the visual quality of three methods:
1. Hi8 camcorder --- ATI TV Wonder 600 (aka ATI 600)
2. Hi8 camcorder -- MiniDV camcorder in passthrough mode -- PC firewire card
3. Hi8 camcorder -- MiniDV camcorder record to tape -- transfer to PC firewire card
00:00 - Intro
01:19 - MiniDV passthrough vs. MiniDV tape
03:22 - MiniDV passthrough vs. ATI 600
04:09 - My preference and conclusion
The people who advocate the capture device method recommend specific devices like the ATI 600 we’re testing. They also argue that MiniDV method compresses color (4:1:1) and makes the videos look more drab.
But the people who advocate the MiniDV method say the video looks pretty much the same, so what’s the big deal? And it's much easier to find a MiniDV camcorder and it costs less money than these old ATI devices.
#ATI600 #minidv #Hi8 #digitization #comparison

[@TheWretchedWorld]

I used the passthrough method with my high end svhs player and was very satisfied with the reuslts

[@xprcloud]

Good choice for ATI,

[@videoextrication4138]

Regarding the overexposed brights in the DV capture, you can probably recover them with a Levels adjustment in YCbCr ("YUV"). If the Y=250, for example, your RGB frame capture will show that as pure white because everything above 235 gets clipped by the 16-235 -> 0-255 expansion. Let me know if that makes any sense. I can probably link something on VideoHelp.

[@videocaptureguide]

Following another comment from @TechTVusa, I put the DV video in Premiere and was able to adjust the brightness and the overexposed area regained detail. I thought it was lost, but it wasn't.

[@Capturing-Memories]

Using a DV tape is just a wasteful step, Once the analog signal is converted to digital and then encoded into DV it is no longer important if you stream it directly over firewire or store it on tape then stream it over firewire, it's already digital.

[@EhrgeizGod]

Would you ever make a video going through your workflow?

[@Capturing-Memories]

@@EhrgeizGod There is nothing to go through, it's straightforward and described in each video.

[@TechTVusa]

When you do the comparison at about 4 minutes the ATI device is more pixelated. Look at the baby's eye. Having said that which video clip looks better in Premiere Pro or Resolve? Your frame grab method might not tell the whole story.

[@TechTVusa]

The passthrough method is better since it saves time as opposed to having better image quality. Imagine if you did VHS transfers for a living. As far as the DV file looking brighter than the ATI any video editing software can make the two look identical. Did you capture the DV-25 video files using Premiere Pro and drop the native the DV-25 video in to a 60 FPS sequence? Premiere Pro will interpolate not deinterlace the fields into frames. If you did not export at 60 FPS then you are not getting the best image possible from premiere pro. Test it out for yourself. On a side note you stated you like being able to adjust the brightness during capture. If a client gives you 10 VHS tapes why sit there and make simple brightness adjustments on the fly? That is a big waste of time considering you might have to do some minor color correction and audio enhancements using the NLE of your choice. I say take a shower or cook dinner while you capture the VHS tape instead of doing minor changes to the brightness for each scene during capture. Do you kind of see my point? Having said that we should do a video chat.

[@videocaptureguide]

I think I created timeline at 29.97fps. But it would have affected both videos. Re the brightest/contrast, I wouldn’t change it for each scene. Rather I play about 1 minute of tape to ensure that the proc amp settings are keeping the brightness and contrast in the legal range. Then I rewind and do the capture. Once whites are blown out and lose detail (like in the bib) it is lost forever and can’t be brought back in software. It is critical to the enjoyment of home movies? Probably not. And I accept your point that if you have dozens of these to capture, you need to take into account ease-of-workflow. For those with a smaller number of transfers and for whom this is a fun hobby where they can geek out in trying to get the best capture, the brightness issue might be more relevant.

[@TechTVusa]

@@videocaptureguide Did you capture from the DV camcorder using Premiere Pro or third party software? If you captured using Premiere Pro you will have better image quality if you drop the DV-25 clips in a 60 FPS timeline and render at 60 fps VS 30 fps. It will be less pixelated. Simply test it out for yourself and make a follow up video. You mentioned keeping the brightness and contrast in the legal range? You don't have to worry about that for VHS transfers. Having said that it does not make sense to adjust the brightness levels for the first minute of the VHS tape considering some scenes might be over exposed and some scenes might be under exposed. You will still have to make corrections in the NLE of your choice. Keep in mind the original video clip may have been over exposed by 1 full stop making the DV camcorder identical to the original. That would make the DV camcorder method superior. For the record I can make both video clips look identical using FCXP, Premiere Pro Resolve etc. You can bring back details of blown out images using Resolve, Premiere Pro, FCPX etc. I will end by saying at least you are testing things out for yourself instead of simply accepting bad information.

[@videocaptureguide]

@TechTVusa I use WinDV to capture from my Sony TRV-17 camcorder on a StarTech firewire card. My understanding is that the capture software doesn't make a difference as the data coming off the camcorder via firewire is already encoded. Are you saying that MiniDV capture with Premiere makes a better AVI (DV) file? Regarding the brightness and contrast, I am keeping it in the legal range avoids losing detail. I think the sample video demonstrates that clearly. In my experience, provided I pick a representative scene, the histogram levels in VirtualDub 1.9.11 show that the levels stay inside the lines. Perhaps this scene was too bright for my MiniDV camcorder passthrough to handle and it lost detail. I am willing to accept that on a less challenging scene, the MiniDV camcorder passthrough would not have so obviously lost detail in the bright whites. Regarding using editing software to fix the levels, I agree that is a good idea. But once the detail is lost because the white is blown out, it is lost. At least, that's what I assumed. I will go back to my timeline and see if I can adjust the contrast and brightness on the Video8-DV-captured footage and see if I can bring the details back. "Keep in mind the original video clip may have been over exposed by 1 full stop making the DV camcorder identical to the original." I don't understand your point. If I was able to see the detail on the white bib on the ATI600/VDub method, then doesn't that suggest it *wasn't* blown out in the original? Again, this is something I will confirm when I play the tape again in my Hi8 camcorder. I'll look at the LCD screen or maybe output to my CRT television to see how it looks. By the way, I am not opposed to using a MiniDV camcorder. In fact, in a future video I want to compare workflows to show that the MiniDV workflow can make unnecessary an expensive SVHS player with Line TBC and/or the ES-10/15 with its Line TBC features. The MiniDV camcorder has Line TBC and makes bad VHS tapes with flagging look rock solid. I will do my best to transfer MiniDV again to get it as perfect as I can with your method so we can have an even better side-by-side comparison so people can decide which workflow to use, which takes into account cost, easy-of-use, audio-video sync, visual quality, and post-capture enhancements. The latest Premiere Pro doesn't capture DV anymore. What version do you recommend?

[@videocaptureguide]

@@TechTVusa Can you confirm the exact steps you use to get a progressive file. Is this the way you do it: 1. New Sequence 2. 1440x1080 3. Drop DV file into sequence 4. Effects Control - scale to 233 to fit Do you then: Right clip the video clip and select Field Options - None? Right click Field Interpolation and click Sampling, Blending, or Flow? Then on Export screen: - Export as Progressive at 59.94? - And what do you select for Time Interpolation?

[@TechTVusa]

@@videocaptureguide 1440 X 1080? Drop the DV-25 clips into a 1920 X 1080p (60 frames per second) sequences and scale as you like. Right click? Field options? Once again you are making an easy job harder than it has to be with bad results in the process. Simply drop the DV-25 video clips into the 1080P (60 frames per second) sequence and render out at 60 frames per second. Premiere Pro will interpolate the 60 interlaced fields into 60 frames automatically. You should probably render to h.264 at18 megabits per second. We can do a video chat if you would like.