Should You Get a Full Body Scan?

[@MedlifeCrisis]

Get the best deal in streaming ($30 for a year of Nebula) here: go.nebula.tv/medlifecrisis (the lifetime membership is no longer available) Lifetime memberships are cool, because if you scan your body three times a day, cleanse your colon, hire an in-house chiropractor, consume 111 supplements every morning, bathe in essential oils, align your chakras, and sleep in a hyperbaric hypothermic hypoxic hypochondriac chamber, you might live forever. And then you'll have the last laugh! As you become the sole surviving human on Earth, forced to watch re-runs of Nebula shows from long dead creators, crippled by an addiction to MRIs and #sliving, but comfortable in the knowledge you got more than anyone else for your 300 bucks!

[@pezvonpez]

thank you for the nebule

[@fredashay]

You're a Libertarian, Doctor! Cool! :-)

[@KerryHallPhD]

Nebula for life!!1!

[@Competitive_Antagonist]

But we can't afford these life-saving scams!

[@baumkuchen6543]

Since, you used references from Scrubs, you deserve my internet points Sir!

[@MoltenMouseMetal]

As a welder, I'd be worried to get any kind of magnetic imaging done. The last thing I need is a chip of steel migrating through my eyeball.

[@BongShlong]

Thank you for the new deep fear. I was getting too comfortable anyways

[@Badger3]

That’s a really interesting point! Has that ever happened before?

[@carpevinum8645]

​@Badger3 prior to mri's they ask about things like that

[@MedlifeCrisis]

Please wear a visor at work! But yes, I’ve fished quite a few bits of metal out of metalworkers’ eyes when I did emergency medicine 😬 (actually a very satisfying procedure!) Most metal in the body is safe in an MRI but in the eyeball is a big no no.

[@phitsf5475]

Any metal in your eyes big enough to be affected by an MRI, you wouldn't live with it comfortably without noticing. For 6 months I did have a steel splinter under my skin in a finger, side of middle finger. It was 10mm long with a 0.6mm diameter, I was very impressed when i finally removed it. It presented as a painless light coloured bump, slowly growing in size over the months. Eventually a black spot became visible on the bump. I took a sharp blade to start poking at it, i felt a metal scrape and knew exactly what it was.

[@TheLilalaunebar]

I'm a doctor from Germany. I once had a morbidity conference about a patient who had a private insurance in Germany (which means that doctors get paid better when they are making test and invasive or none invasive diagnostics). So her cardiologist made a angiography of her coronary arteries without her having any symptoms of heart disease. Some weeks later she got an ischemia of her lower intestines and had an emergency operation. Shortly after that she went into kidney failure. After extensive diagnostics it was found that she had multiple cholesterol Cristal embolies due to a ruptured arterial plaque by the catheter from the angiography. Rohin is 100% correct, don't do tests or diagnostics that are not indicated!

[@DevinBaillie]

Yes, this is another important factor that isn't covered enough. NO medical tests are risk free. Even MRI, despite not using ionizing radiation, carries risk. There's a chance you have some metal in you that you're not aware of, the chance that someone brings something into the room that they shouldn't, equipment malfunction or operator error that results in injury or death.

[@araylaurence6220]

this is a rare case scenerio but a good one to follow, a practical main take away is private industry motives in the medical field and what you should look out for

[@JamesJansson]

I recently had a CT angiogram with what I believe is a newer (but not super new) machine that is more sensitive. It doesn't require catheterisation, just a cannula. If they had even more expensive healthcare, this wouldn't have happened.

[@TheLilalaunebar]

@@JamesJansson it depends on the part of your body and type of arteries you want to look at. The example I talked about was about 10 years ago. In this time a CT angiography of the heart wasn't precise enough. The other difference is that you get a live image of your blood flow with an angiography which can be especially important for certain questions or if you plan to do an intervention. The point was that in her case no diagnostic was necessary at all. I hope that the CT in your case had an indication. Ionising radiation, especially in young patients, is nothing you want to be exposed to unnecessarily.

[@JamesJansson]

@@TheLilalaunebar I was only there because my cardiologist thought it was a good idea, given family history and highish heart rate. I have 50% stenosis in the D1 of the LAD. At 38. So it kinda was worth it to know that I should get that checked again.

[@Fluff-gl6yr]

As someone with pretty crippling health anxiety, it’s honestly very reassuring to hear a doctor talk quite candidly about the limitations of even the best medical care. A big part of my anxiety often revolves around thinking that there’s some test out there that I should be undergoing that could save my life, but knowing that this is generally not the case seems to humanise medicine in my eyes in some way. At the end of the day we’re all just ambling about trying to come to terms with our own mortality.

[@sophyyy7]

one million percent agree

[@baddie1shoe]

It saddens me to see these influencers schilling their predatory products to those who are most vulnerable to buying into it.

[@motionlessbacon5989]

Underrated comment. 100%

[@georgehornsby2075]

Based on Rohin's rate of beard growth about 12-18 hours have passed. Hard working guy to get straight off the plane and immediately start recording a video!

[@paulhaynes8045]

He actually got home weeks ago, he just forgot to shave yesterday...

[@Damin-Danger-Ledford]

😂

[@kitefan1]

Must be one of those annoying people who can actually sleep on planes.

[@imightbebiased9311]

You got faved, which means it must be correct!

[@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721]

But, in his video on the placebo effect, he demonstrated his ability to grow a full beard in just an hour. So he must have shaved before recording that part of the video.

[@sisterthesister4870]

What's frustrating is that there actually IS something these scanning companies could be immensely helpful for: decreasing waiting lists for people for whom it's actually indicated to get a certain scan.

[@tinakerr8163]

Worse still where do the staff who perform these scans come from, it is not like these money making companies provide full medical training, yes they are enticing staff from the NHS making the doctor and nurse shortage worse.

[@garak55]

Agree in theory but you might run into the problem of induced demand where more people are directed towards medical imaging as it gets more available.

[@LiveFreeOrDieDH]

But then these clinics would need to deal with insurance beurocracy. And it would cut into their *real* business, which is early diagnosis of things which maybe, someday, could possibly become dangerous.

[@jljljl1820]

but wheres the money in that

[@hedgehog3180]

@@garak55 Induced demand is only a thing in cases where the demand is directly affected by the cost (time, money or other) of the thing. In the case of medical scans that is not the case because doctors order scans based on risk assessments not how cheap it is to do a scan. Also the cost of greatest concern when it comes to medical tests is not really the monetary cost but the potential risks for the patient as outlined in this video and those don't decrease with availability of scans. Like induced demand is a thing for energy or transport, but it isn't a thing for say houses or electric kettles because you only ever need one of those. No one sees how cheap an electric kettle is at the store and goes "oh well why not" in the same way that you will use more electricity if electricity prices are low or you will use a form of transport more if it is faster.

[@leshommesdupilly]

As a med student, I would love to order a whole body scan with "fever" or "abdominal pain" as comment without getting yelled at by the radiologist lmao

[@MedlifeCrisis]

Abdominal pain? Woah steady on there Shakespeare. “Pain?” is more than enough for those darkness dwelling trolls

[@IkaikaArnado]

Haha, my thought was just to go to ER and say you stubbed your toe, and the ER doc will probably order full body scans with contrast anyway.

[@phillipsperling3037]

Life hack: just tell the to come see the patient if they are so sure they need "clinical assessments" or "have you even seen the patient yourself" or what not. A little threat of sunlight clearly help

[@mar4707]

As someone who receives these testing requests I hope you know you would be added to the memorable pile... And then chased down because others have done it before and were serious

[@sopyleecrypt6899]

The diagnosis of my son’s six-centimetre neuroma via an MRI scan was fairly clear-cut. The thing was massive. Even a layperson could see something present on the images that very much should not be there. Since the removal of the neuroma, my son has had a monitoring scan every 12 months. Each of these (four so far) has been very slightly different to the one before, requiring several specialists to analyse in detail. Every scan is hugely anxiety-inducing. They are necessary, in my son’s case, but if he didn’t really need it, I absolutely wouldn’t put him through it.

[@recycleonwednesdays]

Wishing your son the best possible outcomes.

[@c.augustin]

I guess there were health issues prior to the MRI scan?

[@aluminiumknight4038]

Was it an acoustic neuroma?

[@sporkbot]

I hope your son has as complete a recovery as possible.

[@sopyleecrypt6899]

@@c.augustin not really until a few weeks before diagnosis. He’d probably had it all his life. It was slow-growing, and benign, so his brain was able to compensate for a long time.

[@DanielBrotherston]

Mark Cuban's follow up question about why radiologists oppose such scans when they're lucrative for the radiologists is revealing in another way...a certain group of people cannot comprehend any motives beyond greed. They cannot conceive of a person being motivated by interest, altruism, anything else. There's a few labels which probably apply to this group of people, but I'll leave those as an exercise for the reader.

[@franki1990]

Greedy just sounds bland. I tend to call them straight psychopaths

[@nydydn]

The way I call them is shortsighted. I am greedy as fuck and everyone should be, but most of not everyone should understand that more collaboration means better outcomes for everybody. So yeah, I absolutely want to double my quality of life as soon as possible, but the scientifically proven fastest way to get there is if we all work together so that we all double our quality of life. I'm not a radiologist, but if I'd be one, I wouldn't want people to waste their money on pointless scans that are also risking their health because even if I get that money, that's still wasted money and wasted life that could have and most likely would have instead be used on something that I could have benefitted from. What good is more money to me, if everyone gives it to me instead of them making stuff I'd actually want to buy? If the world would be a zero sum game, the way shortsighted people like Cuban think it is, then we'd still kill each other for the best fruits of a tree. Instead, we built stuff that flies us anywhere in the ducking world in a matter of hours. Such shortsighted people are quite literally just slowing down the progress of human kind. No offense to actually medically shortsighted people.

[@me-myself-i787]

​@@nydydnOn the other hand, whilst not selling pointless stuff will increase the total output of the population, it will also mean you personally will get a much lower share of the output. So you personally will probably benefit from selling pointless stuff.

[@tomfeng5645]

@@me-myself-i787 Well, the most personal benefit for a psychopath would be to be hypocritical and riff on everyone selling pointless stuff while also selling pointless stuff If one then has enough clout on riffing on others, then potentially the risk of selling overtly pointless stuff outweighs the benefit So even then, the societal attitude you would want means going all-in on grifting is short-sighted.

[@orchdork775]

​@@nydydn Yea, while I'm not sure I would agree that everyone should be selfish, I would agree that everyone should be self centered when they need to be. I think it's important that people make sure their own needs are met before putting energy and resources into helping others. And by needs, I mean the things necessary for you to meet a baseline level of well being and mental health. It's not this all or nothing thing where you have to be living your perfect life before you think of others, it's just that you make sure that you are mentally and physically okay before focusing effort and energy on others. If you are not mentally healthy and are struggling, then it's important to take a break from thinking of other people's needs and focus just on meeting your own (in whatever way is possible). It's just about figuring out how much you can afford to focus on others before you no longer have enough energy or resources left to take care of yourself. It's like if you are running low on gas and you see someone stranded on the side of the road, you wouldn't drive across town to get them home, because then you will either run out of gas on the way to their house, getting you both stranded, or run our on the way to your house, getting you stranded. Then, if someone else who was low on gas tried to give you and the other person a ride home, all 3 of you could end up getting stranded. Anyways, I definitely agree with you on people like Mark Cuban being short sighted for prioritizing immediate monetary profit over long term increased quality of life. It's like these people will lower the quality of life in the U.S., contribute significantly to the climate crisis, destroy the economy, and so much more in order to make more money. I guess when you are that rich none of those things matter, because you won't be personally affected by them, or at least not for a long time. I don't think they even care about their happiness or wellbeing. I think they are just addicted to gaining and hoarding wealth. This is an issue with the U.S. in general, though. Time and time again a large portion of the population rejects any projects that would improve the economy, our infrastructure, education, jobs, culture, science and/or anything that adds value to our country long term, because it would cost money at the beginning. Even when it is practically a guarantee that in 20-30 years we would all benefit, people still reject it. You would think this country has never heard the word "investment" before. Apparently things are too bad right now to afford to spend money to address the issues that are making things bad in the first place. Anyways, if you actually read all this, then thanks! I ended up on a bit of a rant there at the end haha.

[@Betleyman_7]

I used to work in a histology laboratory, one day we received an open lung biopsy on a man in his thirties. He had had a "routine" chest x-ray which revealed a suspicious lesion. It was apparently so unusual it was decided to remove it. On laboratory examination the nodule was determined to be not cancer but a foreign body of possibly plant origin, the pathologists were perplexed. When the patient received the results he was relieved to not have cancer and eventually remembered an incident as a child when he was tossing peanuts into the air and catching them in his mouth, one had "gone down the wrong way" but after a brief coughing fit he recovered and never gave it a second thought until........

[@nope19568]

😂😂😂😂 medical professionals really do see it all, never would've guessed peanut lung was the answer 😂

[@Kenzingo]

I’m guessing his manner of death wasn’t the lung debris?

[@kleyyer]

That reminds me of a case I saw from the US, the difference was that it was a pea instead of a peanut, and it grew inside his lung. Later it was removed through surgery. Kind of crazy to think that could happen.

[@shannons9963]

@@kleyyer a man also unbeknownst to him inhaled a seed, from a pine tree. He had some breathing issues and went to the drs. They sent him off for imaging and to everyone’s complete shock, the man had a tree growing in his lungs. It was able to be removed and he made a full recovery, but I cannot imagine how incredibly shocking and utterly amazing that find must have been!

[@Leo-fw1xr]

Thank you for debunking dangerous trends and providing some of the best medical content on KZbin over the years!

[@MedlifeCrisis]

Thank you! That’s very generous 🙏

[@StoutProper]

Top man

[@mignonhagemeijer3726]

​@@MedlifeCrisisI especially found this one of the most interesting videos till date! But there might be a personal bias to this. This September I've started my PhD in STS (sociology of technology and science) research, on something very much related to this. It's about using a digital self monitoring app which uses AI to assess the 'risk' for Cardiovascular Disease. Also with the idea that it would lead to early detection & help encourage people to take preventative actions. My research however focuses on the societal and ethical implications of this. Like what does it do to peoples everyday experiences of sickness and health. How do different stakeholders (end-users, cardiologists, tech-developers etc) view this kind of technology and their potential benefits or drawbacks. Many things mentioned in this video are also part of my own questions and concerns.

[@harrietxo2310]

@@mignonhagemeijer3726my gp app includes such but covering the risk of more ailments than just heart disease

[@MechMK1]

I think the "Don't get tested if you aren't going to change management" is life advice that translates very well to other parts in life.

[@cassieoz1702]

That was a basic premise when I did my medical training 45 years ago

[@celiacresswell6909]

Applies to marriage😂

[@prapanthebachelorette6803]

@@celiacresswell6909lol 😂

[@keef920]

“Don’t ask a question you don’t want to know the answer to.”

[@pedrosmith221]

Some years ago, I thought I was feeling my heart rate in my abdomen excessively, so I visited my GP (my father died of an aneurysm). She was fairly new and ordered an ultrasound. That's when they discovered an "unusual extra vein" that shouldn't have been there. I spent three months in worry until I finally saw the cardiologist. Without ordering any new scans, the cardiologist told me, 'Okay, so you have a Double Inferior Vena Cava, that's not a significant issue. I haven't tested myself, but I probably have something unusual too.'

[@caitie226]

honestly super cool! I love finding out stuff like that about my body but you’ve really got to be prepared to keep it in perspective because it can really weigh in your mind otherwise. often best not to know body fun facts if no change in management!

[@elvis4868]

I also have a fairly strong heartbeat in the left side of my abdomen and it can be fairly annoying when I'm trying to sleep

[@KonekoNaru]

Can you see your heartbeat in your abdomen (left side) as well? It always kinda freaked me out that I can see it down there just like you can see it on the neck (the pulsating) pretty clearly. I’m quite thin though, so that might play into it. Interesting either way!

[@scottfriske9186]

This reminds me of when i got a flight physical to become a pilot. they did a 7 lead EKG and came back with me having an abnormal heart rhythm. They said i'd need to see a cardiologist and get a waiver blah blah blah. Meanwhile I run 3-5 miles and was otherwise perfectly healthy. Cardiologist looked at it, called the flight surgeon a hypochondriac, and signed my waiver.

[@MedlifeCrisis]

Haha very similar to mine! My heart rate was too low so the doc said he’d need to refer me to a cardiologist (who was my boss at the time) so he just made walk up and down a few times and repeat the ECG 😆

[@hedgehog3180]

I guess tbf a flight surgeon probably is supposed to be a bit overly cautious considering what's at stake, everything involved in aviation is like that including the technical side.

[@tomfeng5645]

@@hedgehog3180 looks like the system worked here - flight surgeon deferred to a specialist who would know how to evaluate the risk better.

[@noambbyp]

Similar thing happened to me when I got the physical to be an air traffic controller. My GP took one look at the test and was like, so your heart rate isn't entirely regular, that's true for approximately 100% of the population. It is worth pointing out that is these contexts while medically speaking the tests are unnecessary. They are important for other reasons, especially for pilots who subject their bodies to abnormal stresses, and who are responsible for lives of others and can't be replaced at a moments notice if they collapse .

[@Cheepchipsable]

Sounds like the flight surgeon was just covering himself against even the most remote adverse outcome. That's what happens when lawyers get involved.

[@carpevinum8645]

I've had weird presentations and less than common diagnoses for my age. Bounced around specialists and soooo many tests. Grateful to my GP for taking the time to talk to me about the process, to have a discussion with me about test options, pros and cons and why he wanted some and didn't want others. Really hard as the patient sometimes, especially after some less than empathetic and respectful doctors previously, to sometimes accept that continuing to search for exact answers that may or may not exist isn't going to be beneficial and that going forward with best practice which won't change regardless while limiting risks. But I understand. Really grateful to have had someone with the the time and ability to help me understand through the process.

[@estherstreet4582]

It really sucks that medicine *does* have issues with patients not feeling like they're being listened to, and those issues are something that quack doctors can wedge themselves into and try and help. As someone who's also been waiting years for an "uncommon" diagnosis the messaging of "doctors just aren't listening to you, we can help" is something I can relate to and understand why some people are drawn to this stuff.

[@fyang1429]

Fun fact, MRI is the same as a method that is used in chemistry to determine molecular structures - nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR). Back in the day, they had to stop calling it "nuclear" for medical purposes because it may scare people. Of course, the word just refers to that some magnet is used to cause some atomic nuclei, most often (and in medical MRI only) 1H, to spin a tiny bit, without any ionizing radiation that could damage the cells.

[@hedgehog3180]

I should be educated enough to have a less childish image of this but now I can't stop thinking of a little hydrogen nuclei being given a fun little spin and going "wheee".

[@ohmightyzeus6135]

@@hedgehog3180 That's entirely reasonable.

[@Finn-rj7hz]

I just learned this a few weeks ago in my gen chem class, i never knew that befor but it’s so interesting !!

[@DjDolHaus86]

I perform a full body scan every morning. I check that everything is more or less where I left it and then get on with my day

[@rejamrejam]

As someone with occasionally-debilitating medical anxiety i feel like these things are so predatory. So much irrational medical anxiety is the fear of something lurking in your body you dont know about. This really feels like a way to prey on mentally ill people.

[@eevee2411]

Yeah I feel that and I really hate it. In general so many companies feel predatory in that they take advantage of people's fears and shitty life. It sucks, because rarely do they actually want to help. They just want to take your money no matter what it does to their costumer. Ugh

[@merdufer]

When medicine is not for profit, the metric for success is how many lives we are saving. When medicine is for profit, the metric for success is profit, and saving lives is just a marketing pitch.

[@sheerluckholmes7720]

Elementary dear Watson....🤫 ...🎯

[@jasperfk]

I had cancer last year and had 3 PET scans. Each PET scan is equal to about 25mSv, which about a decade of background radiation in the UK. I have had 30 years’ worth of background radiation in one year. At the start of this year they were worried about a relapse but were extremely reticent to give me another PET scan. With each new scan, your chance of developing secondary cancer in the future increases by 0.16% (or so I remember reading) which adds up to a not statistical insignificant risk after a few scans. Thankfully, it wasn’t a relapse, and I haven’t had any further scans!

[@braindecay9477]

For adults, a PET gives on average a Dose of 8 mSv That's still 100-1000x more than a simple X-ray, but considerably less than you claim. Special case or why is that number so high?

[@braindecay9477]

2/ oh, maybe it was a PET-CT scan, the combination maybe might explain the high dose

[@connor1586]

For reference, the annual limit for a radiation worker is 20 mSv equivalent to the eyes (Or 100 mSv over 5 years) so you definitely got blasted

[@domagojkosmina648]

You should not consider radiation dose for follow up after cancer, unless you are young. Secondary cancers from medical radiation are rare and come up usually 20 years after the radiation happen. Unfortunately most cancer patients won't live that long.

[@jasperfk]

@@braindecay9477 it was a PET-CT!

[@grassfolk]

Congratulations on the promotion chief - we appreciate anything we get from you

[@aliabdaal]

Mate this is a banger video. I was legit thinking of getting an MRI scan but this has totally put me off it 😂

[@MedlifeCrisis]

Ha! Happy to save you some money. Go spend it on something more fun!

[@Malkovith2]

imagine how much fast food you can buy for this money

[@rohitsen2046]

Bit out of context but help to resist my curiosity,😅 Did you record this video in Kolkata or Bangalore???😅, Dada tumi sottie khub osadharon video banao👌🏻

[@harveersingh9970]

Bro you're a doctor as well - how do you not know better?

[@Laura-mu9ky]

@aliabdaal you say that but in a recent video you published you were hyping up DEXA scans? How is it different? kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnOofHp4gaZ1bpI

[@gingercat]

From what i understand, our bodies are kind of always producing little cancerous tumors all over, but we put a stop to them on our own while they're still tiny. It's just every so often we're not able to and that becomes a worrying cancer. I find that strangely comforting. All these little abnormalities are actually very normal.

[@ShadowFalcon]

Yeah, Kurzgesagt actually has a pretty good video on it, and apparently there's a hypothesis that we're just unlucky regarding life scale 😅 So, small animals, who have short lives, apparently don't have enough cells, and have lives too short for cancer to even develop, and large animals with long lives, have enough cells or slow enough metabolism for any cancer that may develop to get it's own cancer and die before the animal dies. And we're apparently in the size/life time, where cancer might become a problem 😅

[@patrikvajgel240]

​@@ShadowFalconit might also be that we live more than twice as long as in pre-historic times, meaning that our natural ability to fight cancer is more than good enough for our species to survive to reproduce, and our unique vulnerability to cancer might be due to our unnaturally long lifespan

[@ShadowFalcon]

@@patrikvajgel240 That could be a likely hypothesis too.

[@junkbucket50]

I once had a brain scan done as part of a psychology study at university. I got the files afterwards and it's pretty cool having a 3D image of my brain but I got paid £20 for that. Paying thousands of dollars for what is really a totally pointless scan is ridiculous

[@TheAnimystro]

I appreciate that you might have just glossed over this to save time in the vid, but for people who might not know's benefit, I have a slight correction on re-running tests - this only decreases the rate of false positives if the false positives are assumed to be independent, i.e. if something other than pure chance caused the false positive, running the test again will still cause a false positive. The co-variance of subsequent tests is almost never 0 (independent) and so re-running the tests isn't a simple catch all solution!

[@NitFlickwick]

They usually solve that by running different, more invasive tests. The second test has more specificity, but it comes at a higher cost, where that cost could be time, patient risk, financial cost, etc.

[@lottievixen]

he has covered this before i believe, maybe why he missed it

[@TehAwesomer]

I thought exactly the same thing when he mentioned re-running tests. Thanks for taking the time to comment coherently about it. 👍

[@J_CtheEngineer]

As an engineer, I’ve begun to believe that simple solutions and catch-alls are more likely than not to be crap, and that goes for more than just the medical industry. The famous response “it depends” really does come up a lot.

[@Cheepchipsable]

Simple solutions usually work in the majority of cases. Problem with this fad is it is designed to find abnormalities and pass them off as problems, or better yet catastrophes in the making. Taking things out of context or selective data is a great way to do this.

[@tanchella]

Pharmaceutical and medical advertising in the US is disastrous and negatively affects the rest of the world (just think of Ozempic debacle). Kardashyan takes money for advertisement, gets that scan for free and treats it like any other commercial sponsoring without giving a second thought how it might affect lives of people that follow her.

[@Cheepchipsable]

As the Chief says, she probably knows no better, and there is a logic in testing for everything. It's not a simple thing to understand for most people, (the statistics I mean).

[@shiniri3064]

I work in Medical Machine Learning, so I am right at the centre of the tech bro bubble (Jokes aside, most of my collegues are entirely nice and reasonable people, but no doubt those types appear more frequently in my social circles.), and I have heard a couple of times ideas like "We should build a 24/7 full body monitor which tries to infer illness from the parameters it monitors!" Every time I hear things like this I'm tempted to bash my head against my desk. It depresses me a lot, because this could lead to a lot of research money being sunk into insane and dumb things, because people who decide who gets grants are vulnerable to flashy buzzwordyness. No doubt, I think my field *can* do good things, especially if we focus our efforts on projects that make the daily life of doctors easier. (Documentation for exampel!) I escaped the fate of falling into the fallacy of overdiagnosis partly thanks to your videos. I'm also a professional anxiety-haver, with some diagnoses under my belt which lead me to worry about my own health all the time. (I know, perfect job in light of this) But your videos often bring me back to reality, and lead me to approach my testing habits and doctor's visits with a bit more insight into how diagnosis works, and allows me to make a better cost-benefit analysis. For those two effects you have on me I wanted to sincerily thank you. Our modern, anxious and tech obsessed times could use more of your type!

[@bloatify]

this was my attitude after computer science at university Until i entered medicine lol 😂

[@hannes7695]

ML = Statistics ”We should use statistics to find disease!” Yes, this is what the doctors are already doing. It’s called science.

[@shiniri3064]

@@hannes7695 Well yes, automated, quick statistics, with engineering and computer science thrown in. Again, ML definitely has potential advantages which go beyond what doctors can achieve on their own, but humility and the right goals are needed.

[@Biga101011]

I think that using statistics and computers for identifying the likelihood of various issues and which tests to run for following up of those would be very useful. He rightfully addresses the fact that the patients risk factors and other patient information changes the likelihood of something being a false positive or a false negative. However I find that physicians tend to lump that all into clinical assessments and not actually crunch the numbers. A computer is impartial and by extent I think could give more accurate recommendations, or at least more unbiased.

[@darkaction123]

This is handsdown one of the best medical videos on KZbin, a doctor who isn't trying to sell us something, only for the sake of furthering medical common sense for everyone, i for one, am a strong believer in preventive medicine and avoiding near useless information about my health. I appreciate this so much Thanks Dr

[@iankrasnow5383]

He's selling us subscriptions to Nebula, but as long as there's no medical conflict of interest, then that's absolutely fine and dandy.

[@minnowx7099]

@@iankrasnow5383Nebula is a subscription based platform where videos are published - he creates his own videos for the platform so he is really just promoting another platform he is in eg Nebula instead of Instagram or etc. perfectly fine.

[@celiacresswell6909]

Well, he is selling the idea that the medical profession is full of health experts. Still one of my fave KZbinrs

[@ussamam1]

Few points: 1) I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks of that Scrubs episode anytime full body scans are mentioned. 2) Dari minimus made me laugh way more than it reasonably should have 3) Thank you so much for making videos like this. As an FY2 I often feel myself almost cornered into practicing defensive medicine. The time this changed was during my geriatrics rotation a new consultant on our department simply asked "but how will that scan change anything in this person's management?" with regards to ordering tests to monitor the progress of an AAA (patient was 87). Sometimes it's the simple questions are the that teach you the most.

[@stevebaker3183]

SAME! As soon as I saw "full body scans" I thought of Cox and Kelso fighting about the "moral ambiguity" of full body scans.

[@johnh3611]

I don't hear anybody bringing up the countless cases of people discovering health problems too late, or negligent doctors and inadequacies in the medical field forcing people to take a more proactive approach. People waste their money all the time. If they feel the need then let 'em check their organs, arteries, look for lumps, whatever. An MRI is not a magical hypochondria beam.

[@mhdm]

On one hand, you have people without symptoms getting full body scans. On the other hand, you have people that self medicate/treat and avoid (expensive) doctors until they literally have no other choice. Just for the doctor to order one test that takes weeks to schedule/get results or worse to prescribe ibuprofen or paracetamol and send them away.

[@ekesa07632]

A couple months ago I went back to my home country and was asked by my general practitioner to have an x-ray of my lungs because I haven’t had a health check up in a while. I was horrified to find out that the x-ray as well as the preceding CT scan showed a 1.5 cm Circle in my lung. Of course, my father and I rushed to a pulmonology Institute in my city, and I was shaking and crying because even if I understood that whatever I have - even if serious - was detected early on, it was still unpleasant. Ukrainian doctors - been blunt and forward but well intentioned, flat out told me it’s too early to tell, and told me to check in with a doctor in three months. They told me not to panic but that they couldn’t tell much from just one CT scan and needed to see if this stuff would grow or disappear or whatever. Fast forward to last week, I go to a doctor this time in Germany, who chuckled at my story and told me it was likely a harmless lump or a scar from some pulmonological illness I carried during childhood but that showed no symptoms. Did some tests - lungs were fine, and I’m scheduled for next CT check in two weeks to see if there are any changes. Hopefully it’s nothing as was assumed by doctors so far! Considering I’m a massive hypochondriac and I witnessed three of my grandparents die either from Alzheimer’s or cancer , this was a massive lesson on learning how to control myself, and not jump to conclusions, and be rational about my own health, staying loyal to the yearly checkups and not panicking unnecessarily. So thank you for the video, because as a hypochondriac, and a person who basically grew up on the Internet, you often times become overwhelmed with the amount of bad turns that your health could take at any point. I wasn’t aware that we could even have random lumps like these in our lungs - after all, I was going to the gym regularly and started to much healthier diet months prior, so I thought that if it was cancer, I would notice some symptoms.

[@JohnDlugosz]

Hypochondriacs are the healthiest people -- think about _that_ ! Early diagnosis doesn't really help anything, he showed, but combine that with more frequent tests and the answer may change. The effect is probably due to not ignoring symptoms or not putting off seeing a doctor when something real appears.

[@kleyyer]

@@JohnDlugosz Hypochondriacs die 5 years earlier than other people. So... no.

[@ave_rie]

I understand why scanning for the sake of it is unnecessary. It’s really just a hassle and not a great use of everyone’s resources. On the other hand, I feel like I have to wait for my thyroid to absolutely die before doctors take my hypothyroid symptoms seriously. Like, it’s either too early to prevent VS too late to cure. 🙃

[@MicroBlogganism]

This is why instead of getting a yearly scan, I just grow a new body every few years and transfers my soul into it! How is that for longevity Bryan?!

[@jimbobur]

3:39 I half choked on a swig of tea at this. Turns out this video is far more hazardous to my heath than anything you might spot being MRId for an hour.

[@ER_GUY]

A little off topic but a medical story: I was working in the local ER (A&E) and the hospitals CT scanner was being upgraded, and was out of use. So in the meantime the company brought a portable CT scanner to the hospital, it was a CT suite build in a semi truck trailer. Well I guess when driving our nice Canadian roads, the CT portable scanner needs to be calibrated (or something) once done, they had a volunteer have a "free scan" just to make sure it was working properly. Anyway, the volunteer, a CT technologist had a free head CT (no contrast) and ...they found a slow growing brain tumor (don't know what type). These tumors often grow unnoticed and only when they start causing problems are they found and are usually inoperable, and slowly cause a client / patient to die of this type of tumor. BUT BECAUSE he had his free CT, they found the tumor while it was very small, and he was able to have it removed, thus saving his life!!!

[@healingpalmsca]

Amazing story! Yeah you never know when a scan like this can actually save someone’s life. It’s not a one size fits all. A dear 32 year old friend of mine just passed away from stomach cancer, because doctors refused to test her and just gave her pain pills.

[@scottrobinson4611]

As someone who had a slightly hypochondriac couple of years regarding my heart (as a ~20yo man), I was genuinely curious about the idea of getting some sort of scan of my heart and surrounding arteries. I did eventually get past it, and started just doing normal things to take better control of my cardiovascular health. It helped to have a good understanding of Medical physics and the various types and doses of radiation induced by the various scans. This is a really thoughtful explanation of the drawbacks and baggage that come with the seemingly flawless idea of getting a scan to catch 'invisible' ailments.

[@pammclaughlin8210]

Thank you for this….,as a breast cancer patient scanxiety is real! I would never get a full body MRI “just because “, I now no longer need extra scans, mammograms etc but when I was getting them every 3 months, it was terrifying! Now my scanxiety is back to once a year with just a mammogram and ultrasound (on the non reconstructed side)

[@Hanuman0813]

Just a side note. In Czech republic we are also eligible for preventive colonoscopy from age 50 and in 10 year period after that.

[@ethereel6268]

As I understand it, the fundamental reason why more data can be bad, is because we don't know how to handle the data. Typically we only image people with symptoms, so if we see a finding in a healthy person, there is no scientifically validated process for what to do next, nor do we as individuals have any way to calibrate how worried we should be as a (potential) patient. However, when it comes to externally accessible parts of our body, we are encouraged to be vigilant of moles, lumps, etc. and go to the doctor, because we're all accustomed to the idea that most findings are completely harmless, but it's worth keeping an eye out for if anything changes, or if the finding meets certain highly worrying criteria. Is it not the case that (ignoring the cost effectiveness, lack of equipment, and general hassle of it for a moment) if everyone had a full body scan every X years, we'd get used to the idea that the odd minor finding is normal and learn not be anxious about it? Moreover, when in the future we inevitably do develop some symptom and get imaged, we'd be able to cross-reference the incidentalomas from previous scans and have a pretty good idea that they probably don't need to be further investigated because they've been there for 15 years without any changes. That is, incidentalomas would become a bit like a mole you've always had. Obviously when it comes to anything where the test itself has significant risks such as CT scans, you can't apply that same reasoning, and the claims that these tech wellness companies make aren't supported by any evidence. However, imagine you do have a limitless amount of money (like Kim K) and, say, rather enjoy the weird feeling of peripheral nerve stimulation from the MRI scan, and are psychologically balanced enough to ignore most non-suspicious findings on the results (perhaps unlike Kim K) - wouldn't it be possible that a full body MRI could actually, in that rare scenario, be slightly beneficial? For what it's worth, I've had a doctor suggest tests on several occasions when I *did* have symptoms, but when I asked whether the outcome of that test affect my care, they said no, and admitted that there's no real point to having the test. I only say this to illustrate that I'm not someone who has unnecessary tests - even if they're free on the NHS and suggested by a doctor! However, I don't entirely buy into the reasoning that imaging on healthy people is useless, provided we can learn to respond to any findings appropriately.

[@V0IDM0TH]

When I was a child my mom ultrasounded me at her job (was general ultrasound, now specifically maternal fetal medicine) just because I wanted to see my organs. It was neat! If there was a service where I could get a full set of x-rays of my whole skeleton to scale just for fun, that'd be cool. I don't care about medical imaging for medical reasons unless it's determined necessary by someone who knows better, but I sure want a scale map of all my bones or pictures of my guts just for fun. I want to know my skeleton in great detail. I mainly care about the bones.

[@zachjones6944]

All ionizing radiation (at any dose) is harmful en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_no-threshold_model#Controversy.

[@8pelagic610]

I woke up this morning and sneezed about five times in succession. Looking for a way to stop the sneeze bout, I followed the medical information pathway describing terrifying mechanisms of nerve relay pathways, obscure areas of my brain, various muscle contractions, relaxations, closures, dangerous levels of airflow, mucus pathways and now have arrived at a feeling of gratitude for just being alive. For now.

[@primarytrainer1]

I have cancer and I had a prenuvo scan that was gifted to me by a friend of a friend. Say what you want, but in my personal experience, the prenuvo scan found a lesion that my doctors at City of Hope hadn't found yet. It works. It isn't for everyone, but it helped me.

[@monicarobbins447]

Newcomer to the channel here: your content is fantastic. The biggest benefit for us, I think, is medical context. We can google our way to any scientific paper in existence, but your specialized knowledge connects the dots for us. THANK YOU!

[@omnipotenttit3240]

One point I would like to raise is that, because medical systems are overburdened in most countries, all medical providers do have an ulterior motive that isn’t directly tied to their salaries, and that is working together at every level to reduce the amount of strain put on their country’s healthcare system as a whole. That means hospital administration have a strong need to justify the lowest possible referral rate, and I think that can lead to harmful bias, and dismissal even of those who are symptomatic. In the Netherlands, for example, it’s a running joke that it is very hard to receive treatment for anything even when someone is actively suffering. The Dutch healthcare system has some very effective methods for filtering traffic away from hospitals, but many believe this is not in the best interests of the patients. Many people are sent away untested and untreated in the name of taking pressure away from a struggling medical system (one which is still miles better than most anywhere else in the world) and the research into just how many times someone with a serious health problem is turned away before being treated or even dying is sorely lacking. This isn’t me justifying full body scans at all - I agree with what you’re saying for the most part - just pointing out that radiologists trying to discourage a bigger influx of patients does not rule out bias of another kind, and I worry sometimes about the effect this pressure-reducing need of healthcare systems has on research.

[@hedgehog3180]

We could of course address this by restoring proper funding to our healthcare systems instead of just constantly cutting budgets, but that would get in the way of lowering taxes for the wealthy.

[@kateatschool]

The thing vets can't resist doing to themselves is ultrasounds - I have scanned my bump (baby looked cute) and random sore joints (I recognise I don't really have the skill to know what I'm looking at...still made me feel better though...)

[@memofromessex]

I got a health DNA check and it turned out I had the Hereditary Haemochrotosis (aka Celtic Curse 🇮🇪 ) - a genuinely life-threatening genetic disorder when the body absorbs too much iron. It can virtually symptomless, or the symptoms wildly different to different people and difficult to diagnose. For years I had felt fatigued, felt like my blood sugar was low, I slept poorly, I had difficulties moderating my body temperature - my iron levels were x10 as they should be. Because of this, my brother also got checked and got diagnosed with HH, so it saved two lives.

[@HardstylePete]

" For years I had felt fatigued, felt like my blood sugar was low, I slept poorly, I had difficulties moderating my body temperature - my iron levels were x10 as they should be." You describe the symptoms. Thus getting additional testing to find out the root cause makes medical sense.

[@travisporco]

I had a voluntary whole body scan at my own expense, at a private site in California, in summer 2021 and they found a stage 3 renal cell carcinoma. If I hadn't done that I would have been seriously hosed.

[@connorgoosen2468]

This tickled my stats brain and weighed my tenancy to obsess over health! Thanks for being a breath of fresh air in these conversations doc!

[@wiesorix]

I took a class in uni recently about the physics and engineering about different imaging techniques, including MRI. Half of that chapter was just filled with different kinds of artifacts, imperfections and ways the scans can go wrong. So it became very clear to me: an MRI is an imperfect device. It will miss things that are there, but show things that aren't. So even if your body is completely normal, the image will show little things that could sent you down the diagnostics/treatment cascade. Or, if you do have the early signs of serious disease, it can easily be missed amongst all the mistakes in the image. Bottom line: all these scans are imperfect (same is true for CT, ultrasound, PET,...) so unless you got a serious sign of disease, you're just trying to find patterns in noise. So don't get that scan unless you got good reason to do so.

[@Sumanitu]

I realize now the real significance of the psychology of wanting these full body scans. My Dad had an incidentaloma at 78 when he had a routine X-ray to look at his pacemaker. Unfortunately he was in the very small minority and it was asymptomatic stage 4 lung cancer

[@dilliondantin]

I'm 28, and have had loud, crackly knees since I was like 10. A few years back, I was a secretary in a hospital, and asked a doctor whose opinion I had come to value quite a lot about my knees. "Do they hurt?" No. "Have they ever hurt?" No.. "Then don't worry about it." Best medical advice I've ever gotten. Catch me making beats with my knees.

[@tomhesemann3680]

I have the same thing in my ankles. My friends joke that I could never sneak up on anyone.

[@agent__berry]

I am just barely breaching the content of this video right now, but the captain disillusion mention was surprising and instantly made me subscribe!! I love the Captain sm

[@dsvilko]

This was very well explained indeed. Reminds me of a time, 5 years ago, when I brought my very sick cat to a vet and after a lot of tests got a vary bad news - late stage FIP with life expectancy of a few weeks at most. We immediately asked for a second opinion. More tests were done and again the result was almost without any doubt, FIP. Typical FIP symptoms. Typical FIP blood results. Well, when I got home I did a bit of reading up on the incidence and especially incidence for a cat of that age and living in those kinds of conditions and the incidence turned out to be so extremely low that even with very close to 100% reliable test results, the overall true positive probability was still far, far below 50%. Turns out, Bayesian statistics was right and two experienced vets were wrong. Luckily, we were not given any treatment options by the vets, but if we had been, we could have increased the chance of a bad outcome through a needless and possibly very expensive procedure. Goes to show what can happen when even trained doctors (well, vets) do not properly take "a priori" probability into account.

[@TRYtoHELPyou]

Thanks for the overview and information in all you are doing here. The humor is good too. Man, i feel this video is going to be much more effective than the others.. thanks again.

[@damiensegers3555]

As a PGY-1 Neurology resident, ubiquitous imaging reminds me of all the non-specific white matter lesions in young patients who get a brain MRI for vague symptoms like headache and fatigue, and are then subjected to a harmful work-up for demyelinating disease...

[@riley22105]

I'm a brand new viewer of this channel but I'm enjoying it! I love the balance between your humor and genuine educated responses.

[@alanthefisher]

The lottery comparison is very accurate for alot of medical related things. Great video as always

[@deepakrajendra8019]

Great video! I hate the commercialization of medical therapies increasing day by day. I think the primary thing I'd like to see is for the ban of endorsements of these services by actors and the such. Seeing ads on TV about ayurvedic ramblings here in India is bad enough! I can't imagine what exposure to these kinds of promotions might do to someone living would do to them, especially without any medical background. These companies do prey on the insecurities of the general public; maybe enough for me to consider them to be evil. Not sure if a complete ban is warranted but I would love to see a ban on celebrities or influencers being able to promote services like these...

[@lunacouer]

I would love to see this happen. Here in the US, pharmaceutical companies are allowed to advertise on TV, and oh boy do they take advantage of it. Just on Hulu, I see 3-4 medication commercials per episode of TV. If you watch enough of them, you'll be convinced you need a slew of new medications. All of them end with "So ask your doctor about _____", so our poor doctors know every time a new one is launched, from the sheer number of people suddenly asking about it. So here, companies like Prenuvo are just taking advantage of what's already legal. They're just being smart about it by using influencers for the targeted advertising (cheaper than TV commercials). It would be nice if the only people they could advertise to are health professionals - with a lot of limits there too.

[@hedgehog3180]

Just in general things that are like almost definitely scams, celeb endorsements of crypto also lost people collective millions and bankrupted many people.

[@amicaaranearum]

Kim Kardashian has no business promoting medical services.

[@jarnMod]

My dad was got a scan once, after he fell unconscious and ram his nose into a table. It was lack of sleep back then. The cause was sleep apnia. But in checking, they do everything including multiple scans that detect 75% obstruction in his artery. That one going down the long way on the heart. You know which one. The doc suggest not to do anything because he has no symptom. Dad was worried. It's more than 10 years now and that obstruction is still there, chilling. I guess it's a right decision to just chill out and let live at this point.

[@grahvis]

I have an artery with a partial blockage. An attempt to place a stent failed due to the bends in the artery, so it was treated with medication. That was over 20 years ago.

[@AnnikaOBrien]

I was told I “probably have long Covid” by three different doctors until my neurologist decided to order a full MRI with contrast including pituitary gland. I had a brain tumor, not long Covid. It’s probably not a good idea for most but I had bacterial meningitis in 2009 and later developed epilepsy (why I get MRI’s every 6 months) and every doctor insisted it was “probably Swine flu”. In my experience doctors are more likely to just let your symptoms build up until you’re rushed to the hospital less than 48 hours from death than order tests. I live in America and have excellent health insurance, no idea why doctors seem so quick to dismiss symptoms.

[@jplayzow]

Because they are being rushed to make decisions for the sake of the corporate bottom line. Also women seem to be far in a way more likely to be written off as not knowing what the hell they're talking about when it comes to just about any issue.

[@kataseiko]

My mom had breast cancer (they said it was stage 4) and she had it treated. Mastectomy, then one full body MRI (with a cheaper option than this "prenuvo" ripoff) and the five mets that they found were treated with chemo and radiation. In 2014, she was declared "cancer free".

[@tamriales]

Congratulations to your mom! Breast cancer can be very scary, especially stage 4. I'm very glad she came out of it okay (and didn't have to pay $2500 for an MRI). Best of luck to you and her

[@Abigail-hu5wf]

Full-body scans for metastases in a patient with known advanced cancer are very different to full-body scans in people with no known disease nor reason to suspect disease, though.

[@JamesJansson]

I'm 38, got a CT angiogram recently (at cardiologist's advice) healthy weight, no other health issues except family history. I had a 50% stenosis in the D1 of the LAD! Anyway, the result is do nothing except improve diet and exercise, maybe start statins soon and check back in 5 years.

[@eypandabear7483]

Not an expert but I assume in your case, the “family history” was what increased your prior probability enough to warrant the test.

[@JamesJansson]

@@eypandabear7483 technically it wasn't enough on its own. After everything was cleared the doctor believed I dislocated a rib, which gave me a lot of chest pain (even breathing hurt). While I was in pain, my heart rate was high. My doctor wasn't satisfied with my heart rate, so I went to the cardiologist. So it was a combo of factors, which independently wouldn't have got me the CT. Family history is not enough to get the CT on its own under Medicare in Australia. But since I was experiencing chest pain and heart rate and my father had a heart attack in his forties, it was justified.

[@andreac5152]

Not a cardiologist here but not prescribing immediate statin after finding a 50% coronary stenosis looks malpractice to me. Anyway you will be put under medications eventually, so the test will probably make a difference.

[@katbairwell]

My husband has long believed that, if the resources were available, at the age of majority each person should have the choice to undergo a series of test/scans/etc, not as a fishing expedition, but to take a full baseline of that individual, at that point in their life. The idea being that should any symptoms occur later, there is a suite of data from before the symptoms began, against which any diagnostic tests can be compared. This idea is somewhat informed by his Dad having a rare "orphan" disease, and his wife (and in-laws) having a rare genetic condition that causes a host of abnormalities during foetal development, and having been disabled in early twenties by CFS/ME. I don't know whether is would be all that helpful for diagnosis later on, but as there is never going to be the necessary investment into the NHS to make it remotely possible, it's rather a moot point. So...not a lot of reasons to add this comment, really. Oh, well I've typed it now.

[@MissMeganBeckett]

I think something similar to what you described would be useful for veterinary medicine too, getting a baseline blood test so that you know if something changes later based on actual results rather than on averages.

[@AshleyYelsha]

I totally agree with him!!!!

[@katbairwell]

@@MissMeganBeckett Yes!! Oh my gosh, you are so right. Our pups are both over 10 now, and they have routine blood tests as part of their annual review. Our practice also do registration bloods, for exactly that reason! I can't believe I haven't twigged it was exactly the same idea, well I can believe it -not the sharpest pencil in the drawer! The routine checks caught the first indications of our old cat's kidney failure, and were vital in guiding our vet on when to start our old pup on medication for her pre-existing heart murmur. We were able to give them both a better quality of life for longer, and our old pup was the marvel of the practice, every time she was in the vet would check her heart and lung sounds, shake his head and say "I don't know how she does it". I know, it was down to exceptional veterinary professionals, who gave her a good 5 extra years of being a right little scoundrel! Thank you, for making the connection for me, animal people are the best people

[@MissMeganBeckett]

@@katbairwell the reason I thought of it is because our cat had to get dental work and they did the pre surgery blood test to see if he was healthy enough for surgery but they didn’t have any previous blood test to compare it to, so we had to delay the surgery, find someone to go pick up the cat. The vet had us do something for a few days to reduce risk, then we had to have mom take time off work and rent another car to get the cat to the vet, the blood work hadn’t changed so they said it was probably that he was just that way naturally and it wouldn’t be an additional risk for the surgery, so then he had the dental cleaning and extractions. It would’ve saved a lot of time money and worrying if we had a healthy baseline for his blood tests, but our vet never did blood work, and I think she still doesn’t do blood tests. My dog is getting neutered soon so I hope that nothing similar happens when they do his pre-op risk assessment blood test.

[@kikiTHEalien]

Most people don't know what their normal blood pressure and body temperature are. I can only imagine what measures the system would need to implement to make everyone do any number of compulsory tests just to have a base line to compare at a later stage 🤯

[@RenotSemaj]

Great advice, thank you. I was diagnosed with Non Hodgkin's Lymphoma, nearly ten years ago. All My scans came after the initial diagnosis. They were used to find the extent of the disease and to assess the effect of the treatment. Used in the way that you suggest makes them invaluable. Hail to the chief from Latitude: -43° 31' 59.99" S Longitude: 172° 37' 59.99" E

[@sheldon97sheldon]

What a great video. Back in 2016 at age 19, I had what is (hopefully) my lifetimes only near death experience before peacefully dying of natural causes in my sleep. My appendix burst and my family thought I just had 'man flu' so left me to rest in bed. After 5 days, they eventually acknowledged I was in an exceptionally bad state as I couldn't stand up, was struggling talk and was struggling to stay awake. The doctor said my system was shutting down and if I'd gone to bed again that night, I'd have likely slipped into a coma and never woken up. I was in hospital for 6 weeks after surgery. Before this incident, my family had always been dismissive of symptoms, saying things will be fine and 'man up'. But after the incident, we did almost a full 180, worrying about even the slightest of things. I wouldn't say we became hypochondriacs, but we were definitely borderline. We've mostly snapped out of it now, but still take things much more seriously than before. Your video is perfect for me, as I got really swept into the whole self diagnosis stuff at the time, as did my family, and we would pester doctors almost weekly about stuff. You've taught me that although you shouldn't ignore your symptoms when they arrive, you also need to be realistic that the chances of something actually being wrong with you is relatively low, and you need to balance fearing 'what if' with the chances of something actually being wrong. I'll be sure to continue to take symptoms seriously if anything else arises, but also not overly worry about them and understand that things happen in life, because even with all the testing in the world, it doesn't guarantee survival. Thank you.

[@sdgc8667]

Do you mean your appendix burst after 5 days of bedrest? You can't survive for days with a burst organ flooding your insides with literal human waste, your immune system would destroy your own body in short order

[@michaelboucher1023]

Man, I wish I could have you as my personal doctor. Also thanks for making sure your video is captioned. As a deaf viewer I appreciate it.

[@DomyTheMad420]

9:40 i was & still (kinda?) am against full body scans BUT your arguements (for ME) guide me to another conclusion "so what you're saying is i should get a nice full body scan done every say 5 years, so i/my doctors can know what's new & what's blobs are normal for me? and y'kno, tell who-ever's checking those scans to not flip out, these are just baselines to be used if/when i actually get worrying symptoms."

[@CrossfitSW]

I thought the exact same thing! I understand his point, but I do tests to have a baseline for when something DOES go wrong there is a baseline to determine something is abnormal. This is the result of having doctors be massively dismissive over major issues. One of which required surgery twice.

[@gowreeshp9338]

Thanks

[@jesuistahmid]

i find rohin to be the best youtube/ influencer-doctor. he always provides excellent evidence based and pragmatic advise. keep up the good work mate!

[@TheZoan007]

Your type of humor is just my jam. Thank you for this

[@sieltte]

Thank you yet again for addressing these issues so concisely, clearly, and with a sprinkling of humour

[@mar4707]

Big agree. As someone who works in Respiratory diagnostic testing the people who have private care (which really only allows them to be seen quicker) are people who dont need to be seen quicker OR people with severe chronic conditions who happen to have a bit of extra money/a good job. Performing tests on patients who feel well will not persuade them to make the lifestyle changes they should. I see it all the time at work. I test people who through testing seeing their breathing decline (before/at the start of developing symptoms) because of smoking but they don't want to give up. It wouldn't make a difference.

[@bandana_girl6507]

I've technically got a few health risks that could benefit from full-body MRIs for diagnosis and tracking of progression, but I also know that with most of them, tracking my symptoms is more than enough. Really, the only routine testing that I need to undergo is regular eye exams because that's a way that the issue can present that I might not be able to notice on my own and would then trigger being even more vigilant (I've got an undifferentiated connective tissue disorder, which could present as a vascular issue but will most likely present first as a drastic change in my vision prescription). I've even got chronic pain which is completely incidental in most cases and only gets brought up in most cases if it's changed (and could indicate something else is wrong) or if it's starting to interfere in my life in a different way to normal

[@khakala97]

As a young MD from Finland, you are my biggest role model. A big fan! Love everything you do.

[@recycleonwednesdays]

My doctors are always trying to get more imaging and I am always trying to get out of it. It's expensive, uncomfortable, time consuming, and rarely changes anything. I can't imagine signing up for recreational scans!

[@francesbernard2445]

Recreational or instead only waiting in line to have done a government program scan while not wanting to end up becoming only remains in a more lighter to carry above them a shallow grave where there is a whole lot of things being recycled there at the time. My advice to you is try not to work way too hard in the recyling business. Because once us human beings get past a certain age then the government often says that no matter how terriblly sick we are or were while waiting feeling at the time now there is no longer any need for one.

[@jooleebilly]

I had an incidentaloma when I got a CT scan looking for kidney stones. They found 2 bony growths on 2 of my vertebrae. Since it *could have* been bad, I got a contrast MRI 3 days later (on a Sunday). I'd asked my friend about it (a neurologist) beforehand, and she was the one who said that incidental findings were usually nothing to worry about. I had been involved in a car crash decades before that, and did have hairline fractures on two of my vertebrae that I'd forgotten about. The doctor called me that night to tell me it was scar tissue. So yeah, it was nothing.

[@LauraMolina-LaDiabla]

I had all the symptoms of diverticulitis during my last physical and had to go for my 1st CT scan. Analysis of the test show my gastrointestinal system was fine and without abnormalities but I also found out that everything was OK for all my internal organs as well. 😊

[@trevormatthews7981]

My wife had a MRI scan of her head. She had volunteered to be a medical student practice person. When the result came back she was told there was some kind of void in her brain on the image. Now, how should I put this diplomatically. I said….that explains a lot. Anyway she did a second MRI but the void or shadow was gone.

[@mandralyne]

I have a Dr who runs routine EKG on everyone who comes in. I went in for liver testing. I've had 5 years of annual echoes despite being asymptomatic because of a result of that EKG.

[@spookygreg]

In rheumatology where I work now, we’ve found a lot of incidental stuff, but also a surprising amount of thyroid cancer.

[@spookygreg]

Even if it’s a low suspicion, we have to recommend f/u because patients do sue if they feel they’re not getting the care the need (even if that care isn’t recommended or required)

[@AndreyZnamenskiy]

I think there is a benefit to do these full body scans and full blood tests when you are young and healthy to know your "normals", so you can track the changes during you life. Sudden changes could be more representative and helpful

[@-lyvenx3648]

who knows how you could've been promoted to be dept lead when you're absolutely smashing it... congrats? Thank you for your effort on these videos!

[@shax3400]

Probably just under 4 weeks apart. Another great video.

[@MedlifeCrisis]

Ooh close but you’ve overestimated a bit

[@cosmoreverb3943]

​@@MedlifeCrisisThat's a good beard for under 4 weeks

[@missknight9]

I get yearly MRIs as part of a high risk genetic cancer screening. Two years ago we found a mass in my breast but as it does not appear cancerous I’ve decided not to remove/treat it yet. Instead I’ll be monitoring it’s growth. I’ve seen how fast undetected cancer has killed women in my family so I’m very grateful for this, but my life doesn’t revolve around those test results exactly because of those reasons you listed. This is such an important message!

[@VoIcanoman]

My mother had an abdominal+pelvic CT scan once, almost 10 years ago (I believe it was ordered for gynecological reasons), and an "incidentaloma" of sorts was found on her kidney, and reported as an incidental finding by the radiologist. Follow-up imaging using ultrasound and further CT scans confirmed that it was not a benign cyst (it had no fluid inside, being instead solid), and it was slowly growing (at a rate of about 2-3 mm per year - it is now almost 3 cm long in its largest dimension). We still aren't sure what it is, but the nephrologist in charge of her case has agreed with the rad's "diagnosis of exclusion" that it is some form of renal cell carcinoma (kidney cancer), although such a disease is multifaceted and poorly-understood, so based on present knowledge (and the slow rate of growth) they estimate that it is likely a less serious form of the disease (but cannot determine what it is without a biopsy or excision, from whence they could get a pathology report on the lesion). So she is in the unenviable position of having to either a) do nothing, and wait for it to become a problem, or b) consent to a procedure (that comes with its own risks) to either sample it (biopsy), remove it entirely (laparoscopic surgery), remove it and the whole kidney (radical nephrectomy) or biopsy then destroy it with radio waves (percutaneous radiofrequency ablation). However, in all likelihood, had the incidental finding not been made, she would have lived a normal life and died of something else at an average age (she's 71 now and has type 2 diabetes, so she may live another decade or slightly more, but in that time this kidney tumor [?] is quite unlikely to cause her any issues), never even knowing about this weird issue with her body. More importantly, the stress of having to make what could be a life-or-death decision (as the tumor could metastasize, though the doctors deem it unlikely; or perhaps one of the procedures on offer could have serious complications should she consent to it) is probably more harmful overall than the actual (presumed-to-be) cancerous mass on her kidney (remember - diagnosis of exclusion involves uncertainty...they don't even know if this is cancer or not). So I completely understand what Rohin is saying here. In the real world, more information isn't always going to lead to better outcomes. And whatever the doctor's opinion, they aren't the one making the decision, the one whose life is going to be affected by whatever happens from there. So they aren't going to give you a "you should do this," and rightly so. "Should" implies a lack of uncertainty, and uncertainty is always going to be an issue in medicine.

[@le13579]

Well said.

[@champagneprincess4]

Facts. what’s the point of finding a kinda sorta something when it could never impact your life in the slightest. The stress and worrying about it would probably impact when you die more than the thing itself

[@101realtor]

Logically makes sense but the hoops my dad had to jump through for nearly a year when he had a persistent cough. Doctor was so sure nothing was serious that he got mad at us when we went to an outside service for a “pinched nerve”. Reluctantly gave us an MRI after that. Turns out that cough was from lung cancer that had moved to his spine and multiple other bones. Passed 6 months later. A high index of suspicion is great and all but depending on the insurance/hospital profits, other motives and egos can take over and make that a very gray area.

[@notmyname327]

Great video as usual. When I was younger I really wanted some kind of scan or lab test that could just "tell me anything and everything that's wrong" health wise. Now I know better but tbh it's a bit difficult to tell what's normal and what's a symptom of something bigger I should get checked out. Your point about what the advice would be really got to me though: if the outcome of a test is for a doctor to tell me I need to eat well, exercise and get better sleep then I didn't really need that test. Hail to the chief! Congrats on the new role.

[@hedgehog3180]

That's also one thing I struggle with, like I have no idea if things I deal with on a daily basis are actually something a doctor should look at or just normal everyday because I honestly have like no idea what is normal. Like no one has ever told me explicitly what it is like to be "normal", and I know I can't just rely on the fact that I am used to it because I also have Autism, ADHD and PTSD and I got used to all of those and didn't even suspect there was a problem until I heard about it online and asked a doctor about it. And like there are a lot of things I just sorta deal with that I definitely find uncomfortable and would rather be without and they probably do impact me negatively. I wish anatomy was like a subject at school so someone could explicitly tell me when exactly I need to worry enough to see a doctor and when it's just everyday stuff.

[@Serenity_yt]

​​​​@@hedgehog3180 Just bringing it up with a doctor is definitly always an option in the end they are the ones with training to decide what needs checking out and whats normal. Rohin is talking about tests here specifically, talking with your Doctor about concerns you have is definitly never wrong especially if you it causes you discomfort. As an aside as someone with a smidgen of medical training (and likely some chronic joint thing I can never be bothered to go to a doctor for) I also find it much easier to figure out a patients problem than my own thats why you shouldnt diagnose yourself and instead bring up the laundry list with another professional who can give a relatively unbiased opinion. I might find it relatively easy to navigate which level of care I should seek out (Am I dieing, really uncomfortable or can I just sleep it of) but thats about all the benefit my Paramedic training gives me.

[@itsjustchloethatsit]

Having been through significant health issues in my short life, every scan is so terrifying that I now refer to these occurrences as scanxiety. Although I'm grateful for the technology we have, sometimes I wish I didn't have to go through it so regularly, or I could get my results as soon as I come out of the scanner

[@mattsains]

I think it would be nice if it were possible to have a more closed feedback loop for making actually good efforts on your health. Like it would be great if I could say “I worked hard to eat well and exercise and now my heart looks incredible on scans”. Instead it’s like “I worked so hard to eat good food and exercise and it was exhausting, hopefully I’m healthier now but who knows if I’m even doing the right thing”.

[@charlot-temisery]

the only time I ever got screened for something asymptomatically was for the genetic marker for high cholesterol, and it was purely due to my mother dying in her early 40's from a sudden massive heart attack, and my GP stating that knowing early to change my diet in my 20's is probably better in that one case.

[@Mustachioed_Mollusk]

How many iron supplements do I have to take for an MRI to rip me to shreds from the inside out?

[@marklewus5468]

I am a USA T1 diabetic with no known cardiac issues, age 65. In 2021 my doctor ordered a CT coronary calcium scan. The calcium results were normal but the radiologist noted a “1 cm ground glass opacity” on my lung. I spent two months wondering if I had lung cancer and was subjected to another CAT scan that determined I was fine. 20 rem of ionizing radiation and $10,000 paid by my insurer for nothing. Never again!

[@AdamMc192]

*Love this content* Rohin. People assume that screening isn’t based often on probability. They don’t understand specificity and sensitivity. People like Kim and Bryan Johnson are not adding to science and likely (on the whole) leading to worse outcomes for those who follow suit.

[@eypandabear7483]

To be fair, conditional probabilities and Bayesian statistics are very unintuitive, even for people who understand the maths.

[@bertze]

The first thing that came to mind to me was exactly what you said in that 5yo video of false positives. That's sing that you're doing a good job, keep shining on!

[@SmileyEmoji42]

Unfortunately, I seem to remember reading that, a scarily large proportion of actual doctors do not understand the Bayesian probability calculations shown here; so it's wildly optimistic to expect the general public to do any better.

[@krismicinski]

By far some of the only substantive material on KZbin. Great job

[@fakecupcake123]

My dad did this in China and did a whole Chinese traditional med based off those scans. And he was so pumped about it, I told him to pump his breaks and be critical of everything. A few years later he said it was basically useless and went back to western medicine. The sure answers that these predatory medical approaches give are so disgusting.

[@michaelmjack3336]

Great video! We have an acronym for this in radiology: VOMIT = Victim Of Medical Imaging Technology! A major issue in radiology are incidentalomas. For example, when we do trauma scans we look at the entire body and inevitably pick up an incidental finding. I'm not even going to talk about the incidental findings on FDG PET! Personally, I would not advocate whole body imaging.

[@takismaratzas9937]

From the other hand the UK has the most deaths from undiagnosed cancer cases in Europe due to GPs and specialists trying to avoid to send you for scan (budget limitations i believe...thanks to conversion of NHS to private). It doesn't matter if NHS is free...what it matter is what quality of service you get.