I feel an important difference is that mangonels have friendly fire, scorpions don't. That's why you can have scorpions on auto-pilot, but shouldn't do that for mangonels.
@why_wait2 жыл бұрын
I came to the comments to say this
@Goldenblade142 жыл бұрын
I love Hera of the Law!
@sergi_o23452 жыл бұрын
Hera of the law official
@EraySaltik2 жыл бұрын
I think “friendly fire” is an important concept, it should be added to video as a negative point to mangonel and as a positive point to scorpion
@hansoskar19112 жыл бұрын
two thing that went a bit under: - Mangonels do friendly fire which why you dont really wanna surround with (usually) knights and fire into the pack with a Mango. Scorps are better in Infantry fiestas for the same reason. - Mangonel answer Scorprions bc they kill Scrops and Mangos in 1 hit. so if your opponent has a Workshop as well its really hard going for scorpions. bc the answer to both is the Mangonel anyway.
@timii0722 жыл бұрын
You forgot to mention a con of the mangonel : bad players can easily damage their own units
@undefined63412 жыл бұрын
I wish Hera and AoE2 devs could work out a way to literally include this video into the tutorial. I think this would be so helpful for people who are totally new to siege
@FacundoTupac2 жыл бұрын
But can a mangonel or either a scorpion launch a 300kg projectile over a distance of 90m? I don't think so.
@thehorsehunter2 жыл бұрын
treb gang treb gang
@yuuya59852 жыл бұрын
11
@nostalji752 жыл бұрын
I think you got your numbers mixed: Should be a "A 30 kg prejectile over a distance of 300 meter." Are you thinking of fantasy trebuchets like in LotR Minas Tirith?
@vekeuimonen112 жыл бұрын
@@nostalji75 You could go for much more than 30kg. At least 100kg as the "Warwolf" was reported to be able to hurl rocks weighing up to 135kg. The range varies hugely and 300 meters seems to be pushing it a little bit, especially when talking about accurate range.
@nostalji752 жыл бұрын
@@vekeuimonen11 You could go for heavier projectile than 30 kg, but 300 kg is to much. It is simply not practical. Afaik projectiles between 10 - 150 kg were used. Sure does the maximum range vary, but 300 m has been confirmed by several sources. You don't want to build your treb 90 m from the enemey away. Always protect your trebs!!
@yusufsaid2 жыл бұрын
Mix both of them so your mangonel kills your scorpions.
@martinmarzano15232 жыл бұрын
There's a tangent subject regarding to scorpions specifically: Role in certain civ army composition. A Scorpion can be a vital half of your army, or be the 'middle man' of your army comp. I play a lot of Celts and halbs with siege onagers is pretty much a staple strategy, SOs flatten archers and halbs poke down cavalry, but if the game allows you can also throw a few heavy scorpions as some sort of 'contingency' plan. Imagine all your SOs die and your halbs are facing massed arbalests, while not as good as SOs, heavy scorps can still keep archers in check, whereas you'd forced to retreat without your back up plan unit and without SO's. Now imagine all your halbs died and you're facing a group of hussars charging your SO's, while not as good as pointy bois, heavy scorps can actually kill hussars and actually be able to defend themselves and your SO's, whereas without scorps it would have been a wipe. A middle man scorpion makes your army much harder to kill. And the other role is simple, being one half your army, the most notorious example of this is Khmer using Heavy Scorpions and Battle elephants to complement eachother. Funny enough in that army comp, Ballista Elephants would be the 'middle man'.
@satyakisil97112 жыл бұрын
There is one important scenario where using mangonels defensively is well worth its value - which is to counter enemy mangonels.
@judedanteregidor88312 жыл бұрын
i first saw ur channel as uploading memes, meme play, meme commentary lol very helpful! u convey ur thoughts in a way in a very digestible and engaging way. gj!
@ardadinkci88982 жыл бұрын
Nice video hera! But there is one thing that i was expecting you to mention lets say we are in a situation that we have to defend in most cases opponent will push with mangonels but can scorpion match against mangonels on defence if we apply the general rule ''use scorpions for defence'' ? its really hard to dodge mangonel attack with scorpion and they get destroyed by 1 shot while mangonels can be repaired by a villager. Please correct me if i am mistaken. Thanks for useful videos
@HeraAgeofEmpires22 жыл бұрын
Yeah scorps die hard to mangonels, shoulda mentioned that as a pro to mango
@pbsoccer22 жыл бұрын
Knights and scorpions are a really good pairing. Then add a mangonel to attack buildings once you have 2-4 scorpions.
@CragHack2 жыл бұрын
No, in that scenario rather just add Rams!
@jonathanbrowning42 жыл бұрын
Top rate content, great stuff. How about another macro tip guide just for the hell of it? I know you've already done like 5 of them but its the easiest and biggest thing to improve.
@Fikuw2 жыл бұрын
Something I do like about mangos and I didn't saw it mentioned befores is that yes your oponent might avoid the fight, and that can be priceless to get a better defense eco sometimes. Thanks for the video. :)
@dreddie12802 жыл бұрын
“Who tf is attacking me?” My own Mangonel smh
@FatalSkeptic2 жыл бұрын
This is a great vid. Have had several players come with scoprions in mid castle to attack me and I struggle against those. Will start adding these in my game play. gl hf!
@SchlomoGoldbergstein2 жыл бұрын
@9:18 - photobombing horse
@TBPetitP Жыл бұрын
Amazing insight. I would have added at the conclusion something that you mentioned during the scorpions cons and is that if you're defending agains a group of mixed xbows and skirms is better to go mangonel because its melee damage will do more against a mixed composition, while if there are only xbows the pierce damage from the scorpion doesn't become a weakness.
@PiperZuko2 жыл бұрын
Nice one thanks Hera.
@HeraAgeofEmpires22 жыл бұрын
Np bro
@TrungLeNOLA2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Hera! Learned a few things from this.
@jimmyjim24282 жыл бұрын
Buff Burmese!
@lonewolforigin Жыл бұрын
Love the mixing them strat, it usually works for me. My experience being a Britons + Black Forest player. I started using Mango + Scorpions to shred skirms and rams at my walls (Castle Age), leaving the way clear for my big blob of xbows to clear anything else. Defensive games can turn offensive easily.
@chronographer2 жыл бұрын
Mangonel needs good micro, scorp needs less micro. Therefore I always go scorpion :(
@doguhanaktas12622 жыл бұрын
Also against battering ram always use mangonel, since scorpion is only causing pierce damage.
@salvatore96532 жыл бұрын
I have seen scorpions being used when knights get in a line to fight other pack of knights. It may be a very niche situation but it balances out any disadvantages if the scorpion is ignored by the opponent.
@injest1928 Жыл бұрын
I also factor in my APM when deciding between the two. If i go mangonel i know I won't be able to micro my eco or other units as effectively. Sometimes i just add in one or 2 mangonels to a composition. even if i have them on no attack stance it will force my opponent to be much more wary of large engagements.
@LDM5412 жыл бұрын
Mangonel does melee damage?? That one I didn't know Great video!
@Okinagui2 жыл бұрын
Awsome video! I’ll def try combining both!!!
@AndrewKeeleymegaak32 жыл бұрын
I would have added something about how mangonels are better against other siege units due to their melee damage.
@noahpowers15972 жыл бұрын
You forgot to mention that scorpion shots don't damage your own units but mangonels do. Really enjoying your videos hera :-)
@lightfallonthehead3842 Жыл бұрын
it takes one misstep for the entire stack of scorpions to just collapse under the sheer unrelenting force of the tyranical onager and my heart can take not one more of such loss
@DigitalDiscDreamer2 жыл бұрын
I find that knights with scorpions is great because each compliments each other’s weakness. The knights can fight against mangonels and enemy cavalry whereas the scorpions can fight against poles with ease. Plus they can help with xbows that a picking off your knights.
@thomas16442 жыл бұрын
You forgot to mention that the ram is always the correct choice.
@agustinfranco08 ай бұрын
i think its also important that a mangonel on its own can do pretty big damage, but a single scorpion probably not.
@reto68592 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed the video, But I think you were missing the fact, that mangonels Are good vs scorpions, so if the enemy is going for siege as well, you are forced into your own mangonels in most cases and you actually Dont really have a choice. I Love your new chnnel content and always wanted videos like that in the AOE2 scene.
@milochan909 ай бұрын
Great video!
@alejandrolievano55732 жыл бұрын
These type of videos are great!!
@markusdegenhardt8678 Жыл бұрын
It should be added that scorpions are micro unintensive meanwhile mangonels are micro intensive. Mangonels are also the only anti siege siege unit. Only a mangonel can safe you if your enemys rams are knocking on your gate.
@davidtaylor47172 жыл бұрын
Thanks hervivalist!
@j.p.6912 жыл бұрын
Thx for the advice 🙏
@manishjape31962 жыл бұрын
You forgot to mention about "friendly fire" problem of mangonels
@davidmedicine121 Жыл бұрын
I'm very bad when using Mangonel/Onager, so I prefer using Scorpion/Heavy Scorpion. I always using Scorpion with support of any specific unit.
@DoMeASolid2 жыл бұрын
Hera, I just thought of something revolutionary! You could use pikes to defend your siege from cavalry!
@pbsoccer22 жыл бұрын
Ok, but what about the 800lb Hera ram in the room?
@forsakenquery2 жыл бұрын
Rams are best on defence. Simple.
@rubenmaessen4724 Жыл бұрын
I often use scorpions to defend my knights from pikes because they don't do friendly fire. It is very unrealistic seeing a battle between knights and pikes decided by incoming projectiles that hurt multiple pikes but fly through horses without touching them but I use it to my advantage.
@timii0722 жыл бұрын
Scorpions need a buff, don't they?
@JohnSmithEx2 жыл бұрын
Yep, they were recently nerfed by removing the mango-delete trick!
@HeraAgeofEmpires22 жыл бұрын
Imo no but alot of people think yes
@lacagoat5442 жыл бұрын
No they are a good unit, if used correctly
@olorinistar99037 ай бұрын
Now I just need to stop slaughtering my own units with my mangonels
@ar1sm702 жыл бұрын
And when should we make a Ram Hera..? That's what the public wants to know :P Hera_Ram 111
@Jompa102 жыл бұрын
This is so useful thanks!! When going archers and being chased by knights mangos, should we hit and run the knights or try hit and running the mangos? Does the answer change if going britons with their +1 range only (no unique tech)
@mbvglider2 жыл бұрын
If you're being chased by knights and mangos, you should retreat as fast as you can and try to focus fire on the knights whenever possible. Archers should be way faster than mangos, so you shouldn't try to engage them. If they're at your base, then honestly, retreat and defend your TC, try to pick off units if you can, and hold out until you can build better defensive options, or try to see if you can attack their base. You might die anyway; there's a whole list of pros who've died to the Hoang rush. But if they're able to afford knights and mangos, that's incredibly expensive on every resource. Either they're so far ahead economically that you're screwed no matter what, or they've idled their TC and have terrible eco back home. Just try to see if you can hold out for a bit. If you have a Crossbow-based composition, your eco should be pretty strong back home since those are much cheaper than Knights + Mangonels.
@arcomegis9999 Жыл бұрын
If they add the knockback ability to the Scorpion, I think they will be used more often.
@rubywest51662 жыл бұрын
Hera really just went "Why not both?"
@kremepye36132 жыл бұрын
I always just flatten my own army when i try to micro mangonels
@_jamessimmons2 жыл бұрын
Why not both.. that made alot of sense at the end. I think I'll give the 1 to 2 ratio a go.
@Ashadowtotheworld2 жыл бұрын
Hmmm can't believe you didn't mention that mangonels damage friendly units and Scorpions dont. That to me really changes their application. You can have a backline of scorptions providing fire support while you go in with melee units and not worry about losing your own units. But if you do that with the Mangonel you're just as likely to kill all your own units.
@TrungLeNOLA Жыл бұрын
Hera, how do you counter someone that spams scorpions, halberdiers & trebs? I was playing as Lithuanians vs celts and couldnt find a counter to this. Please help!!!
@thelastfruitcake2 жыл бұрын
Is it worth making scorpions for offense as Khmer? Or is mixing the two still the best option?
@Iwillhealyou122 жыл бұрын
I have an issue knowing when to upgrade them. Any thoughts?
@Tocaraca2 жыл бұрын
Not sure why you didn't mention that mangonels beat scorpions which is really important when fighting with offensive siege vs defensive siege and vice versa
@imsmeagol911 Жыл бұрын
Por que no los dos?
@shadowsun40552 жыл бұрын
For some reason I always lose the mangonel battle... For that reason I just don't make them lol...
@bishopspitfire43992 жыл бұрын
If you opponent spreads out with their archers while you attack with scorpions shouldn't the side be vulnerable then?
@Oakenlix2 жыл бұрын
Mangonels are great because you can destroy your ally's monastery to steal their relics
@dervakommtvonhinten5175 ай бұрын
rule of thumb is "no matter what you do, NEVER EVER use scorpions"
@Jocw27 Жыл бұрын
a mangonnel you're welcome
@terryliu90152 жыл бұрын
first!
@timii0722 жыл бұрын
You say a good composition is knight + mangonel. Which civilisation would you recommend to me for this combination ? I know no civ who has bonus at both
@unimportantcommenter43562 жыл бұрын
Slavs. Better farmers help in knight production, and they get cheaper siege.
@satyakisil97112 жыл бұрын
Slavs, Khmer, etc. should do fine. Portuguese has a bonus for both.
@drakZes2 жыл бұрын
It makes no sense that the scorpion does pierce damage. Doesnt matter how much armor youi have on if a massive bolt with high speed goes through you, you gona die. It makes sense that it should do less damage against buildings, but not against skirmishers. That is just dumb.
@doguhanaktas12622 жыл бұрын
Which one is better against Cavalry archer ? Scorpion or skirmisher ?
@satyakisil97112 жыл бұрын
Skirmisher.
@ingoseiler2 жыл бұрын
If you struggle with food (early castle) Scorpion. Once you have food eco it's always better to preserve gold
@magdakos46902 жыл бұрын
I never make mangonels because I just end up killing my own units :(.
@Jompa102 жыл бұрын
Why are scorpions good if you have archers vs archers skrims in defense? Aren't they bad against skirms?
@unimportantcommenter43562 жыл бұрын
Also, Scorps deal significant damage to the Skirms, even if the Skirms have 4+2 pierce armor. Since Skirms have low HP, and Scorps deal quite a lot of damage (the same damage as a Knight with Iron Casting), the Skirms can only withstand 6 scorp shots before going down, and this number decreases with each collateral hit. I'd say that Scorps counter skirms.
@bameno66412 жыл бұрын
will there be an AI that can dogde them all ??
@jiri_hradec2 жыл бұрын
Ayo hera where de old intro at mate?
@HeraAgeofEmpires22 жыл бұрын
Not needed
@riddlesdice68352 жыл бұрын
why dont u instead go fc and make 2 scorpions a ram and a mangonel and stop making vills and make 3 knights :)
@braveheart43882 жыл бұрын
Change your thumbnail and background for such learning videos to separate it from your gameplay videos.
@felipenachmanowicz93932 жыл бұрын
You kinda forgot to mention how scorpions are very weak vs magonels. Actually, scorpions are very weak vs all other siege.
@jayjaynator29112 жыл бұрын
I love spamming Scorpions with Teutons
@AndreLuiz-by3lg2 жыл бұрын
Plz try to talk slower, somethimes get hard to understand the lenguage and the information 😅
@dervakommtvonhinten5175 ай бұрын
lol, you are talking bs dude. you say best is mixing the two... yet ive never seen you use both, usually you go for manganels. and you also say scorpions are better on defense... no. manganels get beaten by manganels way better, so usually when someone is pushing in with a manganel and army, the defending pro also makes a manganel to kill it. not to mention rams. you cant really kill rams with scorpions. you can however kill them with a manganel
@user-ty8ku6zu7j2 жыл бұрын
mangonels ignore armor instead of melee damage i think