Should you play with the Rockstro hold?

I take a look at this debate around the Rockstro hold. I explain what it is, what the differences in these schools of playing are and try my best to explain some of the strengths and weaknesses of both sides. This is a difficult topic and I am not an authority on Rockstro but I encourage healthy and kind discussion below :)
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[@joemagnets9940]

The way you present this lesson on the many different ways to hold, balance and stabilize the flute and the fact that everyone has different physical characteristics as to the structure and size of the hands and fingers. That the 'correct' way to play the flute is really what is comfortable and less painful for that particular musician. You demonstrated what those positions are and now it's up to the musician to try the different methods of holding the flute and decide which position is best FOR THEM. I'd say, mission accomplished.

[@pearlflute1]

You are such a genuine, generous, and unpretentious teacher. Wonderful! Thanks for posting these videos.

[@subwaytheo]

I recently purchased a Solexa Thumbport II and I found I was able to hit the lower C#, C, B with less effort. I must mention that I have been playing flute since 1979, but as I work in mechanical trades, my wrists and finger joints have been damaged over the years. The use of the Thumbport helped with my right-hand wrist movement without the pain. This leads into your topic today. Using the Thumbport resembles the Rockstro hold. I just wanted to put this out to anyone who might have joint issues that might be restricting their playing.

[@petrsetek3874]

P.S.(Czech flutist) Even Theobald Böhm had this problem. He knew that his 1847 model flute was too heavy on the side toward the player due to the long rods and screws and therefore he used a contrivance popularly called a "crutch". The crutch, a big T shaped screw turned upside down, was attached to the flute from underneath an "sat" in the indentation between the left thumb and point finger. If I am right about this, Böhm carried the flute in his left hand. Therefore he could recommend the alignment of the head joint - center of embouchure hole, center of keys on the middle joint. If a player had thinner lips and needed to turn the embouchure hole more inside, the whole instrument could be turned inside with or without change of the alignment. No balancing was necessary. But the flutists did not like the crutch because it hampered the movement of the thumb, BUT they FORGOT to turn the head joint in. When I was young I played a flute with the crutch made by Hans Rainer, and can confirm this. Without the crutch, I believe, the Rockstro alignment would be more comfortable. In my opinion - outer edge of the embouchure hole - centers of keys on the body. Concerning the right thumb: there is no ideal position. I personally move it a little not to get pain in it after a long playing. It depends what type of thumb you have. If you have a thumb like Phillipe Bernold, "u" shaped, then you can hold the flute underneath or on the side. I, with my pointed thumb, cannot hold the flute on the tip.

[@YLIU]

Love your open-minded way about flute teaching, my holding position is now more like Rockstro hold. Would like to add my personal experience, hope can help others to decide the optimal way to hold flute. The key factors for me to use more Rockstro hold: In-Line G flute, Mid-length fingers. -For both hands: *Try to keep nice natural C gripping curves landing on the flute -For left hand: R *Release some tension on my ring/pink fingers -For right hand: *keep the stability: my right thumb is not totally horizontally behind the tube, but a bit lower(with a silicone patch on the flute), then this can generate vertical force to support the weight and horizontal force to stabilize the flute(with lip/left index finger) In contrast, I feel that with long fingers and offset-G flute, the ergonomic holding position would be more conventional type.

[@wonderfuldayday]

I'm very thankful to you for giving me good help!

[@karlahyatt2584]

Excellent video! Thank you for covering this topic.

[@carjamash]

Fascinating! I didn't know I used the Rockstro hold! Lol awesome vid as always Tats xxx

[@sdm4186]

Thank you very much for making this video. It is very informational. After mentioning about this hold last time, I start to pay more attention how other people hold their flutes, as well as how my body feels when I move from key to key. I think educationally it is a good journey.

[@Verschlungen]

Beginner here (80-year-old ex-French horn player), so I have nothing substantive to add beyond the enthusiastic remarks of others. But I did want to comment separately on the WAY you present this material -- it is exemplary! Quite aside from the fascinating Rockstro specifics, this video is a delight to watch at a higher level, just for the perfect way that you organize the ideas and present them.

[@TheFlutePractice]

Thank you and welcome!!! It’s so wonderful to win you over to the flute side 😉 although I also LOVE the French horn. I’m so glad you are enjoying the material!

[@Verschlungen]

@@TheFlutePractice Re "the flute side," ha-ha: Flute entrance in 5th Brandenburg; start of third movement of Mozart Flute Quartet K285; Hindemith's Mathis Der Maler, Finale, where low quiet flute has a 'conversation' (on low D--F--A--) with the entire screaming orchestra; first four notes of Webern Six Pieces Opus 6 = the quiet unassuming dawn of XX century music itself -- These are a few examples that occur to me, offhand, from the list of THE most magical moments in all of western music. You chose the right instrument!

[@Fmajor7]

I prefer the rockstro hold all day. For me, I can move so fast and play richer. 😻

[@TheFlutePractice]

Flute Fluting yes! It definitely seems to just work for some which is great. Keep on fluting!

[@Rubded]

You are a fantastic teacher!

[@komxlk2601]

I wish I could subscribe twice I love all of your videos please don’t stop!

[@snowleopard2257]

Thank you so much for this video. I think it’s changed the relationship with my flute for the rest of my life. I’m self-taught and have fairly small hands. As I’ve gotten into trickier pieces I’ve felt like I’ve been hitting a wall with a lot of difficulty in right hand fingerings. It’s going to take a bit of work with muscle adjustment but I can already see how much easier it is for my right hand. I don’t know if you read comments on old videos but in case you do, thanks a LOT!

[@chechereskin2662]

Thanks for this. It is the best explanation I have seen so far of the Rockstro hold. I am looking for ways to hold the flute that might be easier with arthritis and a "rockstro-type" hold was suggested.

[@ronaldeng3454]

Thanks for the balanced description. I'm still a beginner, and feel most comfortable in between the two holds. For now, I'm trying to stay away from too much flute pressure on my lower lip, which impacts my embrouchure. Maybe I will change later. This is probably more critical for young students who might be challenged by supporting the flute and reaching the keys comfortably. At least I know now that there isn't only one way to hold the flute. Enjoying your channel. Thanks again.

[@kwamerobinson5789]

This has helped me a lot. I am a professional musician, Baritone Sax is my principle instrument and Bass Clarinet is my double. However Flute was my first instrument. With the stay-at-home order I have had time to re-acquaint myself with my flute. I was having a helluva time holding it, especially C & open C# , the Rockstro hold solved that instantly! I studied it and it made so much sense. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU and my right pinky thanks you!

[@AndieArbeit]

i think that she mentions in this or maybe another video the factor of the weight of the rods and mechanisms of the bohem flute, so in terms of balance is very clever to turn the body out a bit and put the finger a bit high instead of below holding the flute, Trying it the flute doesn't roll when playing C and C# but when I had classes teachers were reluctnat to turn the "head In", most tend to encourage us even to use it aligned out in cosideration of the index key.. I kind of remember that students from an older teacher had this kind of allignment withe the head turned inwards and the body out, and had a very stable hold. Maybe I should experiment a bit more with that aspect. In any case the most intuitive thing to do is to hold in any possible way the flute, but Rockstro is kind of more eficient and logic also...

[@LouisFrayser]

Thanks! Something new :-)

[@lisalovelylpa]

I have always used the left knuckle as a pivot point. Started this when playing bamboo flutes. I have found that crushing my lower lip with the flute to hamper me from playing all the octaves , my lower lip needs to move as I play the notes. I think it’s a minor difference really , more an adjustment rather then a new way to hold the flute. Thanks for the video ! Winks Lisa

[@amidala3927]

I've never heard of this hold before but, playing around a bit, it does feel nice to me. I'm always pulling my right thumb back to free up my right pinky and this helps me do it but still feel stable. Please do the follow-up on the headjoint position soon.

[@houtblazer]

I just got a new flute with a open hole inline g. I never heard of this hold. But when you showed it I felt like I am moving toward it. My hand position has changed since I used to play outline g. I now need more support against my chin to prevent the flute from dropping of my chin when playing a C.

[@sandrodiestro9665]

I learn a lot of u ... ur so good

[@chrislee3263]

I don’t use the whole Rockstro system, but I have tried putting my right thumb behind the tube, I’ve found that it helps balance the flute when I’m playing in the 3rd register

[@chrisischauer56]

In my opinion the „baby finger“ should be free of any flute supporting. Having to press down 3 or 4 keys is enough work and adding the job of weight-supporting the flute doesn’t make that easier.

[@LeeBerache]

Oh my gosh, I agree with SOOOOO much of what you have to say, here! I am also a "middle of the road' person when it comes to playing the flute, piano, really........life. Two things that I had a problem with with the Rockstro method were 1. the thumb positioning at the back of the flute, and 2. rolling the flute forward (or the head joint back as it were) and aligning the head joint to a place where I could get the best sound. I also found that my hand had more tension holding the instrument with my thumb so far up on the back of the flute. Part of it might be because I was always fearful of the thumb slipping off the back of the flute, and hitting the mechanism (i.e. the bars). Anyway, like you, I've gone back and forth MANY times with head joint alignment, and have decided the best placement FOR ME, is for the head joint to be slightly rolled in from center of the keys. I have a very thick, heavy lower lip, so if I roll the head joint in too far, the intonation goes out the window!! My low notes sound FABULOUS, but the other registers sound muffled and "covered", and the third octave is dreadfully flat!! If I align the head joint to line up with the center of the keys, then, when I hold the flute in the Rockstro hold, my third octaves sounds glorious, the mid register is free and open, and my lower register is non existent, because I also have an embarrassingly thin upper lip! OY!! So, after years of fighting this battle, both by myself and with my teacher, I have come to the conclusion that spitting the difference is best. Slightly off center gives me the glorious high register, the beautiful mid register, and that beefy low register that everybody loves! In my humble opinion, you are SPOT ON! No need to argue about any of these things. If it works for you, great!! If it doesn't, find something that does work for you, and enjoy the success of finding it! I hope this all makes sense, I'm writing this at 2:21 am!! LOL!!!!!

[@lindabakker3743]

I didn't know about Rockstro... but it do find that turnig the head joint in improves my hand position and relieves tension.

[@supersenshi101]

I actually have been doing that since I purchased my Miyazawa with a Brogger mechanism. The extra bar for the mechanism was actually making it very difficult for me to hold the flute without it rolling inward.

[@witneyskye5556]

Thank you for this very thought-provoking video. It has definitely given me something to think about. Right now I am in the process of changing my embouchure. I am also thinking about re-aligning my hand position. Really, every aspect right now feels foreign to me. All this, after not playing for 25 years. Finding my comfort zone/position/posture is definitely a work in progress. I will get there.

[@TheFlutePractice]

This is a challenging time but an exciting one! Small changes can have a huge impact on your playing! Very exciting 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@witneyskye5556]

I agree with the somewhere in between. It is the most comfortable for me. Every one's in between will be a little different than the next flutists. I changed my hand position and embouchure in the past few months. Playing was a challenge at first. I never give up on any thing in life and this challenge was definitely worth the time I spent finding a better way.

[@LouisBertrandTech]

I guess I have an in-between hold. I like the idea of rolling out the flute body because it puts the heavy mechanical parts on top, where they balance so that the flute doesn't tend to roll either way. Once the flute is balanced, there's less of a tendency to apply force to steady it, and you can play a bit more relaxed. I also noticed when you were demonstrating the Rockstro that your right wrist was straight. That's what I notice with myself, and my fingers naturally curl to just above the keys.

[@Jessica-Jasmine-Green]

His logic is exactly what I discovered when playing around with holding the flute, but my teacher said it was wrong. I like his logic. It makes sense.

[@willcassell9688]

Can you do a video talking about the best music universities/colleges/conservatoriums in the world plz

[@carolinafluteman6598]

That Rockstro is interesting!

[@kimberlyforbragd3729]

How would you characterize the difference in sound between the Rockstro grip and the Conventional or other grip?

[@1whocalms]

Who knew I was a Rockstro! Anyone who plays my flute says I have the head joint turned way in, but it is definitely a result of my turning the keys way out the the thumb on the back. Now I have a name for it.

[@carpedekem]

Thank you so much for this video! I've been playing flute (on and off) for over 50 years (in the US) and had never heard of the Rockstro hold. I was skeptical and thought, well, isn't this pretty much the same as using a thumbport? I also couldn't hear much of the difference you were hearing in your sound (computer speakers). But I just took off my thumbport (actually a Cobra) and tried this position and it really makes a difference in both sound and stability of the instrument. My flute hadn't actually felt unstable, but when I switched to Rockstro and tried C sharp to D, I could feel that it was more stable. Anyway, I plan to try it for a while before deciding. Have to see if it produces tension over the course of a full practice session. But I may be a convert! Who knew there might be a better way to hold the flute? Actually, I need to add that I'm playing alto flute and that I'm using a Cobra C-AW flute support for left hand. I had also been using a Cobra RTC-AW, which is like a thumbport, but big enough for Alto flute. I took that off to try the Rockstro hold. Without the Cobra C-AW left hand support, the Rockstro isn't stable for me on alto flute. But with it, it's really stable and well worth exploring. I'm finding that my right pinky finger is much freer to do it's magic moving around those low notes and that's what you really want to be good at with alto flute. Otherwise, might as well play C flute. Anyway, thanks again!

[@TheFlutePractice]

I love your careful but exploratory approach to this! I think it is so wise to play with it but also be sensible and see what impact it has on your playing. It took me years of this type of work to find something I am truly happy with and gives me the best results! Enjoy the exploring 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@siswain4393]

As a saxophone player, self teaching the flute, I find after watching your video I seem to be naturally leaning towards the Rockstro method....who knew !.....what are your thoughts on playing the flute vertically using the head joint and thumb rests developed by an Amsterdam company, would be a more natural playing position for me personally (like a sax). Expensive addition for my student flute though...

[@AndieArbeit]

Ok... I am trying it... Most teachers always encouraged me to use in some sense that kind of position, however they never tell you to turn your headjoint "in", but in a standar alignment with the first key, or even more out... However it makes hard or almost impossible to me to obtain a decent sound... However turning the head in, and thinking of balancing the weight of all the mechanisms of the flute in a intermediate angle where the flute doesn't tend to roll inward or outward makes really the rockstro a comfortable position and frees my fingers in all registers... I will give it a try. In the past years when i Tried to hold the flute just using three points of contact, versatile embouchure for all registers and dinamics was almost impossible, and the "rolling in" of the flute was a issue, so i discarded the option, but in the path compromissing the freedom of fingering with a more "normal" holding... Thanks for sharing your researchs on this topic 🎉

[@TheFlutePractice]

Thank you for sharing! I am so glad you found the trick. Keep exploring and refining 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@AndieArbeit]

​@@TheFlutePractice this thing about rockstro holding and allignment is really interesting, There is a treaty or document in digital that a man could read or something to get the original source of information, and for sure keep exploring and spreading this type of holding ?

[@AndieArbeit]

A little update after a year with this experiment, the new position of the right thumb finger, like a bit perpendicular to the other fingers feel so natural for my right wrist after finding the right pressure and balance for both hands that I can no longer hold the flute like I used to 😅 also the left hand fingers have less presure holding the flute and are more free... More experimenting will be needed

[@Frederer59]

IMHO, and being an older player, the attention to balancing of the flute should focus on the head and right shoulder. The worst is to have the head in R side flexion and contralateral rotation. It compresses the cervical spine which triggers nasty problems with R peri-scapular muscles. (Deal with it. Anatomy matters and makes communication easier in the end). Head should be as neutral as possible. If the flute and its keys are horizontal to the floor then the R shoulder acromioclavicular joint is at risk to compression and can lead to supraspinatus tendonitis and more. Low notes can fail because of uncovering of back of low D key due to R wrist flexion.(because of horizontal keys). Basically, flute should not be parallel with the floor, meaning R hand should be significantly lower than L and front of keys approximately 30-45 degrees above horizontal. Serious nerve impingement can result otherwise. Only young people can hold the flute horizontally. Pain will come eventually. The flute fits to the good posture of the player. A lesson with an Alexander Technique informed flutist is worth the fee.

[@leslielevan2947]

Hi Tatiana, just to mention that the word ‘treatise’ is pronounced treatiss

[@qwaqwa1960]

I think many Boehm flutes had a support doodad that rested between thumb & index finger. Wonder why that died out.

[@scottm9707]

Rockstro, I thought you meant like Jethro Tull. My bad

[@Pepe_pita]

its funny that the headjoint I use in the position but I grip the flute with the thumb below

[@houtblazer]

I just got a new flute with a open hole inline g. I never heard of this hold. But when you showed it I felt like I am moving toward it. My hand position has changed since I used to play outline g. I now need more support against my chin to prevent the flute from dropping of my chin when playing a C.