Should you SELL Firstborn Models Early? What I'm Doing with My Army

[@smugron1101]

We await all of our Firstborn brothers in the Eye of Terror for recruitment.

[@michaelmastriano7566]

Who will take in all these Rhinos

[@smugron1101]

@@michaelmastriano7566 Adopt a Rhino today, for the glory of the Dark Gods.

[@OverlordMagos]

@@michaelmastriano7566 Sisters of Battle and Sisters of Silence :) Maybe Arbites

[@arkslippyjunior7773]

Renegade raiders is a detachment for a reason

[@Bootaykicker]

Just in time for Primaris Chaos Space Marines to start replacing that range

[@myrddraalhalfmen9524]

I'll never sell them. They are my beloved marine models and units. They can always look good on shelf or be appropriate proxies

[@kaueleao9957]

They are firstborn, they never looked good the begin with

[@myrddraalhalfmen9524]

@@kaueleao9957 To each their own, I guess

[@TacticalMetalhead]

@@kaueleao9957 heresy. The firstborn style is what everyone knew and loved for decades

[@airraid1266]

​@@kaueleao9957if they never looked good marines fans never would have gotten into the hobby.

[@kaueleao9957]

@@airraid1266 Marine fans are marine fans because they are mentally disabled, not for any other reason

[@Mr_Bunk]

My biggest concern about this is the scope of imagination for the setting of your tabletop battles. I’ve often been told that the appeal of 40K’s long timeline is that you could set your battles at any tine between M32 and M42…but when firstborn are all replaced by Primaris, that won’t be possible for space marine players or their opponents any more. For them, it’s going to be either Heresy or M42. No Badab, no Vraks, no more replaying that homebrew war setting you spent years of games in the local club depicting with your now-obsolete ‘firstborn’.

[@Fortunes.Fool.]

Us playing with older models doesn't help their profit margins. It's easier to gouge the existing players by sunsetting our existing collections and expect us to buy more expensive models than to grow to game to meet new players.

[@alexknudsen2759]

@@Fortunes.Fool. The point is we never needed 'primaris' vs 'firstborn' They could have just made "Intercessors" and not said a word about the stupid rubicon crap.

[@Fortunes.Fool.]

@@alexknudsen2759 You’re correct, we didn’t need Primaris replacing our collections, GW wanted them to so it would drive sales.

[@spnked9516]

I think that this is one of the bigger, less talked about problems with modern 40k. Both the fans and GW itself have forgotten that 40k is a setting, not a story. It's context for a game to be played around and a place where stories can be set. As soon as you start making major changes to it - i.e. pushing the timeline forward, dividing the galaxy, etc et - you risk removing preexisting context and undermining the initial setting. Now, it's obvious why modern GW does this - they want to circumvent existing model ownership while also removing the prior framework so they can make and sell whatever they want. However, it's a little less clear why fans of the setting have been so willing to accept it's fundamental alteration.

[@alexknudsen2759]

@@spnked9516 1000000%

[@ArchmageOfAnarchy]

I've been quite adventurous with mine and turned them into Chaos Marines by adding extra spikes and skulls. Since the Imperium (GW) has forgotten them, they have turned to Chaos to rebel

[@alexanderpippington9277]

This is the only reasonable excuse to become a heretic

[@TheNecromanerXIII]

I really love the idea of firstborn marines looking at the Guiliman's return and seeing it as a betrayal of everything they fought for over the last 10 millennia.

[@bellportbattlebunker4682]

great way to stick it to the man!

[@Joshua-fu9yw]

that’s exactly what i’m doing. although i’m stuck with what to do with my land speeder

[@greg_mca]

​@@Joshua-fu9yw forgefiend? Discolord? Venomcrawler? Realistically given their size they'll need to be some kind of daemon engine, though nothing too big

[@knightsljx]

Why would I sell them? A plastic soldier is a plastic soldier. A vehicle is a vehicle. I'm not winning any tournaments here, so whatever Rhino = Impulsor Predator = Gladiator put them on some transparent bases = flying dreadnought = dreadnought just blutac it to the right sized base

[@yamgoth]

The Blood Angels flying, deep striking Land Raider in 5th ed.

[@-Benedict]

Even the base size doesn't matter in non-tournament play.

[@shotgun0261]

I'm just picturing Predator with half a packet of Bluetac slapped on to make it the correct look at a Gladiator... And it giving me a good chuckle at picturing how somebody would react to it.

[@jojimbo136]

My Templars have been with me since i was 10. There is a zero percent chance i will be getting rid of them. If the day comes where their rules go then they just get promoted to their primaris equivelent's rules.

[@rottenpotato9290]

You can say they are totally primaris but sadly they come form a planet with high gravity

[@winstonsmith8482]

The problem then arises because GW (most shops) don't allow proxies... if they even still let you play in store at all .. many tournaments don't allow proxies either. GW basically intentionally tried to $k - r3w us and force us to re-buy our entire armies over again. I will never give them a cent ever again.

[@jojimbo136]

@@winstonsmith8482 im blessed with a few FLGS that dont care in my city. The Local GW only offer 2h time slots on their tables, cant play 2k in that time anyway

[@jammer9300]

​@winstonsmith8482 don't play GW tournies. Many tournaments allow proxies my guy.

[@winstonsmith8482]

@@jammer9300 Some do, some don't. Most of the tournies in my area want WYSIWYG

[@DetroitTyler]

I think GW fucked up, instead of just updating the models to look like primaris scale they made a drastic lore direction and came up with primaris which means we should have both first born and primaris. They should have just said this is what space marines now look like on the tabletop. Instead they muddied the waters lorewise, and getting rid of firstborn would make zero sense unless magically every firstborn became primaris and survived that process.

[@Dram1984]

It’s just to sell more minis. GW is greedy and 40K players are kinda dumb.

[@TikkiEXX]

Dude it's been years. Nobody cares anymore

[@BleachCowboy2016]

Lore wise, you’d think that eventually all the first born would die out and primaris would be the only ones left.

[@ZHADOMArchon-hy5gs]

They really did throw 30 years of lore build up into the garbage and there's no coming back now

[@TechbotALPHA]

@@Dram1984 Which is stupid. Because upscaled Marines alone would still have sold like crack. And they'd have avoided all the anger and frustration, not to mention damaging the tabletop feel of the army (Flexibility and options? Not anymore...)

[@viju_diju]

keep the firstborn to play with them in other game systems 👍

[@klaykid117]

You can also add a little bit of hype to their bases and do little tricks to basically make them a bit bigger and then you basically have primaris sized

[@Dios.scary.Monsters]

Horus heresy ;)

[@Gridlinkdead]

one page rules ftw

[@bonkstrum9555]

​@Gridlinkdead a little rubbing alcohol; a tooth brush boom, good as new to serve the generic human empire. Opr ftw

[@guardsmen2945]

@@Gridlinkdead hell, I'm even printing marines for both 40k chapters and my own homebrew settings that use genetically enhanced super soldiers. OPR ftw

[@UBERbuck]

I'm actually slowly buying up firstborn models and such. I want to build a Badab War force of all firstborn marines just for kicks.

[@Kikoskia]

I for one will continue to add to my firstborn only space marine chapter. I was never a competative player and have no problem using legends rules. I'll also be quite happy to play older editions of the game if need be. They are as much a painting project and display piece as they are wargame miniatures that bring me great joy regardless.

[@DeathInTheSnow]

Short Primaris then. I'm not having GW tell me what to do with hundreds of pounds worth of miniatures that I've spent thousands of hours on, gaming, modelling and painting. Model/unit rotation shouldn't be a thing. This is like with video games where they cut the servers so a game can never be played again, even if it was single player. Absolute scum mentality.

[@nuke2099]

It seems GW turned 40k or Warhammer overall into a card game like MTG where sets rotate out of standard and go into modern (where you use all cards ever with their own ban list). The difference is many players don't want to play the Warhammer version of modern.

[@Jakedarkforce]

Preach it! Im keep 100% of my first born, I also have hundreds of hours of hobby love poured into them. They stay.

[@Fisthammet]

_I do what I want._ Proxy models; bigger bases, Heresy using chaos rules, older rules, and playing whatever actually sounds fun. _We play games for fun right?_

[@Mr_Bunk]

Not according to most folks on KZbin, Twitter, Reddit etc. Apparently you can’t be a fan these days if you’re not angry and spiteful literally all the time. I do not agree with this attitude. For the record, I’d love to play a fun, casual game with you.

[@peterwitczak3124]

You sound like a guy I wanna play a game of 40K with!

[@omnissiahGaspar]

One pages rules is a great game

[@lawyerd16]

Yep, we can do what we want with our own stuff. I realize the tournament scene is another story but that has no appeal to me.

[@william9557]

1000% this Pick an edition you and friends like, play that. Don't like the newer models? That's fine. 3d print and recasts are there for you. Like I literally got my hands on old school scout snipers because of recasts, and it's basically 1 to 1. Gw doesn't sell them so it can't hurt their profit margins.

[@chetmanley1885]

Just use those units in heresy, it's basically 7th edition without the jank. Most of the jank. You can always play older editions 40K as well, the rules dont cease to exist because it's not current.

[@Wanten-the-stormtrooper]

Exactly! That's what I'm going to do - well, that and port newer units back into an older edition where they make sense.

[@Miniscape-wh40k]

Massive agree with this

[@morgymomo8535]

What if I don't want to play heresy? I wanna play 40k.

[@PortocaliusMaximus]

​@@morgymomo8535 then wait for the guys at /fourk/ to finish porting all the new stuff back into 4th edition

[@Nemo-wk9tu]

Good luck trying to find people who want to play older editions.

[@angushunt204]

Proxy is the way to go here, especially if you dont play tournaments, I wouldnt even bother rebasing the models.

[@Dram1984]

Yeah I have Space Wolves going back to 2e and literally nobody has ever complained about them being old style bases and sizes. Heck my terminators are still on 25mm bases.

[@Jakedarkforce]

Yas, this.

[@TheNecromanerXIII]

If we are playing a casual game and you roll up with a predator and wanna call it a Gladiator, Im cool. I love seeing the old stuff come back to the tables every now and then. EDIT: I meant for later editions when they inevitably cull it from the faction. Same thing for Firstborn Assault Marines. If there are Legends rules, use 'em. Otherwise, proxy 'em.

[@nuke2099]

If were playing a casual game and I roll up with a Predator I'm playing it as a Predator. :P The rules for it aren't that difficult nor overpowered.

[@stotgunvsface5092]

It’s not like the predator is a bad unit either. It’s cheap at 130. The autocannon can chew up Gravis marines pretty nicely. And throwing lascannons on it gives a few decent shots of anti tank fire. Did some good work for me when I used it.

[@nuke2099]

@@stotgunvsface5092 Mine is a badly painted and put together full on Annihilator. :D If possible I would want to strip it down if I can remove the parts and then get replacement parts and new guns along with magnets. Basically restore the whole thing. Restoring older models like a motorcycle or car gets more appealing as time goes on.

[@stotgunvsface5092]

@@nuke2099 magnetized mine from the get go. Magnets are easy for the sponsons. Turret needed some metal to fill. Though I’m not too happy with how I did the turret…

[@nuke2099]

@@stotgunvsface5092 When I originally built it I was 14-15 in 2004 or something like that and never knew about magnetising. Never saw anyone else do it either.

[@Laivavihupaska]

>Sell the firstborn >Aqquire 3D printer >??? >Profit

[@Mr_Bunk]

>Sell firstborn >Acquire 3D printer >Spend literal months trying to get the f*cker to work >whatdoyoumeanineedsomuchothershit.png >Spend so much money you go into debt >Finally print your first successful test print >Print firstborn >Wait >Realise you could’ve just kept the firstborn you had in the first place >ohi’vewastedmylife.mp4

[@iantellam9970]

Or just proxy your existing models. The result is the same.

[@colonelturmeric558]

Avoiding competitive play seems to be the play. Its driving most of the problems with current 40k, so boycott it and leave the shitty toxic tournaments to fizzle out

[@ZHADOMArchon-hy5gs]

Totally agree. Tournaments feel so weird to me it's not a great fit for a competitive balanced game, this isn't chess this is PTSD DND meets a metal poster on shrooms

[@Mr_Bunk]

Bold statement to give to a competitive-focused channel.

[@darko-man8549]

GW know competitive is how to sel models, so they go that way

[@tinkertoiler744]

Agree, gw are hiding their aggressive pricing and predatory marketing behind competitive play. Keeping the game fresh should equate to invalidating anyones collection. I sold my ba first of the advent of primaris. I did not expect gw go drag out the replacement of first born this long. Stupid lore around a business decision to protect market share and increase sells is just ridiculous but many have brought into it.

[@greg_mca]

​@@Mr_Bunk this channel isn't really competitive-focused, it's just game and news focused and uses tourney data because that's what's available to judge how the game is going. There are plenty of channels out there that are way more sweaty about competitive than Auspex is

[@loupdeguerre]

let's be honest, for anyone who started collecting space marine years before the primaris ever came out, the phasing out is very painfull, and might as well sell them just to recoup some of the loss. For other, the closer you get from the primaris the lesser the impact and you might not even feel the pain much if you didn't start collecting until the primaris came out. I have something around 3000 thousands points of space marines that are becoming fast obsolet around... I'm on the fence about selling them for two reasons: A/ I have a lot of memories with them, even if they aren't that well painted, and B/ I don't really play anymore, I simply collect and paint and as such I'm not that impacted by the primaris models becoming THE space marine models.

[@nuke2099]

The thing is those closer to Primaris will be in the same state 5-8-10 years from now. You know GW will create some other bull and replace Primaris eventually.

[@michaelkeha]

Mate they have already legended some primaris units they are going full rotation

[@smugron1101]

Join us in the Eye of Terror, brother.

[@OniGanon]

You could repaint them into renegade marines using CSM rules minus any daemonic units. The 'Red Corsair' and 'Iron Hand' themed detachments in the new codex look pretty tasty.

[@rankcolour8780]

Not for me. I'm the definition of started collecting back in the day with rogue trader. I'm on my ....4th refresh of 1st born already and have full armies of them that aren't really fit for use anymore. them going and being replaced with something new is just another spin of the cycle. I have more points of obsolete metal marines from 1st and second than most people have in current, modern 1st born plastic.

[@Madj3llyfish]

I'm using them to play One Page Rules. I'm moving to that system as my main, and have Warhammer 40k as my side game. I realise that they will be "cancelling" more and more older models faster, and consider "older" models quicker and quicker... because money, you know

[@LordCrate-du8zm]

They WILL cancel older models more, yes, but I doubt they will start rapidly deciding "Brand New Unit™" is now Legends because money. That doesn't even make sense logistically. Why cancel "Brand New Unit™" and spend money creating more in an Ouroboros situation when you can get rid of/update the old ass sculpts that don't really appeal to your target demographic anymore? Tac Marines and such are from a time where gatekeepers and hardcore nerds ruled 40k. Sure, there are good people too, but I theorize the rapid elimination of Firstborn is to drive away the older, toxic fans who hate change. Granted, it's not necessarily a _good_ plan (and thus I really doubt whether this is actually the case), but it's one of many outcomes and certainly a possibility. Another, far more likely possible reason is because they're running out of space in their factories and they're clearing them out because... well... they're older, worse sculpts that only take up space that COULD be used by "Brand New Unit™" which looks infinitely better and is probably gonna sell more.

[@Madj3llyfish]

@@LordCrate-du8zm I love primaris marines but I don't see why getting rid of the old models. And recent moves have showed us that they don't actually care about the community (moving beastmen to old world only, eliminating most warcry warbands which by the way are not old at all, half of the stormcast eternals...). This is not just a product we buy. This is an expensive product we spent an awful amount of time on, assembling, painting... I'm a massive advocate of gatekeeping (I even made a video about it) but there should always be a middle ground. Some people are toxic by nature but most people just dismiss each other as either wokeish or bigots without communicating. I don't think wanting to keep your old marines makes you a bigot, and I consider that if someone makes a sweeping statement about that is just a real shame, because we could get along so much better if we just looked at the hobby as a whole, instead of catering to what GW needs to pull off to satisfy shareholders. And I think you are totally right about the factory aspects, but nothing stops GW saying "you can bring these old models as proxies even though we will not produce them anymore" rather than telling the customer not to even dare to bring them to an official tournament.

[@LordCrate-du8zm]

@@Madj3llyfish Exactly why I said the second one was more of a conspiracy theory than anything. But both the Warcry warbands and Oldcast Eternals fell under either the "this doesn't sell well" (which I am quite sure drove the Warcry purge) or the "we're making updates to these". Regardless, I see your point. Also, providing rules for models no longer made seems kinda like a dick move to new players. "Do you have 'SPECIFIC MODEL'?" "You stopped making 'SPECIFIC MODEL' 3 years ago." "WELL TOO BAD IT'S META NOW!" They also officially endorsed proxies of older SM models as newer ones, Assault Squads as their Primaris equivalents and Vanguard Vets, bikes as outriders, etc.

[@ChrisKCook]

​@LordCrate-du8zm the Only toxic playersxarecthe Wokehammer freaks trying to drive everyone else out of tge hobby...

[@tythus654]

I eagerly await people selling their firstborn Blood Angels. I *really* want to start a firstborn Blood Angels collection, and getting them in bulk would drive the cost down significantly

[@zeronix_yt7929]

Hey wanna buy mine?

[@cousinzeke4888]

I'll be watching for Black Templars.

[@MalefaxTheBlack]

Selling like 5K (as of 8th edition) points. They need work, but they’re tabletop standard for most, and do have basing. Even a number of customized characters LOL.

[@nahuelleandroarroyo]

I ve seen people selling primed BA firstborn, they seemed to be rather popular

[@s2korpionic]

Option 1 for me. Re-basing and height increase is easy, and I wouldn't mind free-handing on the mini itself what I'm playing it as. So far I haven't had any issues with people playing against proxies, nor I towards others.

[@DetroitTyler]

For casual games it should fly 100%, but for tourney's it'd be a no go. I like when people run classic type units. Tactical squads have been a part of the game since I was a kid, super fun to add a medium and heavy weapon of choice and add a lil customization to the serg. Intercessors and shit are boring same loadout for pretty much all battle line shit these days including the sergeants for the most part. Glad they did a points drop down to 140 for them.

[@Jplays23]

I went a slightly different route, and turned all the old firstborn tanks and stuff into looted Ork bits. You can get multiple buggies from just one marine tank and it's really fun to convert them. Marine bodies I've been adding parts where possible to primaris characters, mostly helmets and shoulder pads

[@Dtv8564]

If they do remove all firstborns, I'll just play them with CSM rules.

[@myrddraalhalfmen9524]

Fun idea for an army, really. You can mix and spread chaos marines miniatures among several squads to show dynamic of your dudes turning to chaos one by one

[@TheSilverDragon1]

You know that in lore, fabulous bile has the stuff needed to make primaris chaos marines, right? Don't expect your chaos legionnaires to stay around for much longer.

[@LordCrate-du8zm]

Plus, there's a possible lore reason too! Maybe they're resentful of their Primaris brethren and think they are being unceremoniously driven to extinction and will be forgotten forever, thus they turn to Chaos to strike back!

[@timunderbakke8756]

@@TheSilverDragon1it’ll take a lot longer though with how slow GW is to add chaos kits. They have easily an extra decade of support in CSM

[@TheSilverDragon1]

@timunderbakke8756 you say that, but there is only the jump pack guys, legionaries, chosen/havoks (easily made into one kit) and possessed to be replaced. The terminators are fine for now I guess and the bikes are on borrowed time as it is. Three kits and that is most of the chaos space marine units replaced.

[@geordieglobetrotter7090]

I sold my entire lot as soon as the new sisters line came along. Never going back because the entire space marine line is a GW trap where everything you buy is already on a countdown to legends

[@johnnoble6989]

The one thing this doesn't address is people that want to hold onto models for nostalgia, collection, or progress reasons. It's videos like this that make people think that GW just comes into your house and takes your models when they update something. Your models are yours. Display them, keep them, play them with older editions or count them as newer things. They don't have to be sold as soon as they're 'obsolete'.

[@BobRobert8888]

it'll be a real shame if space wolves lose their unique unit style in favour of standard primaris units

[@Dram1984]

Yeah, I’ve been playing Space Wolves on and off since 2e.

[@cousinzeke4888]

If?

[@Lorderite0]

I had a similar conversation over on twitch about this, it seems that GW aren't going to retire the "hallmark space marine vehicles" (i.e. land raider, rhino, and drop pod) but this begs the question about having to re-work all of the new primaris tanks but if they do get rid of those vehicles they are basically confirming the death of "firstborn" and removing some classic units that are essential to space marine gameplay, tactics, and iconography. I have henceforth dubbed this the "Rhino Dilemma," not that I'm totally against at least getting newer (maybe larger) variations of classic vehicles but I think it would be funny for everyone to have rhinos except the faction that originally used rhinos.

[@spudjiii]

For me, while i'm happy to use units "as similar", I have a massive issue with the new vehicles. I simply don't like the grav-tanks feel. They just don't feel right. and thats fine them being in the range but if it means I can't use predators etc then that really sucks I won't be selling my marines. i like my collection, and I'm gonna keep them even if I can't use them. Some of them I can use in HH games I guess. But if marines lose land tanks I don't know if I'll be able to play them as an army, honestly. Which'd be sad for me

[@kempo79]

At this point a smart thing to do would be introducing new type of infantry - some kind of veteran unit made of firstborn marines that you could equip as tactical, assault or devastator squad - and releasing new kit for them. Mark VII is too iconic to be simply phased out.

[@KrisToCool]

I refuse to buy/build primaris. GW will lose my business for good.

[@xInfiniteGaMeRsX]

Petition to bring back Firstborn and give the boring primaris the can

[@commissarlegion1413]

I'll be looking for more firstborn models when i find them on 3rd party sites. I'll also look for older codices to play older editions or just have them for the simple joy of having squat marines

[@MalefaxTheBlack]

Anything in particular? I’m selling a crapton to help pay off some medical bills that I can’t afford to pay.

[@commissarlegion1413]

@@MalefaxTheBlack probably going to be looking for bikes both regular and scout, as well as any land speeders.

[@temirbek2004]

I prefer old loyalist marines)

[@JL-jy4zo]

okay, commrade

[@rynerlute1305]

So yes everyone please sell , as my goal it do a diorama of the whole dark angels chapter on parade , I need good priced listings

[@uwesca6263]

That sounds great and expensive!

[@Smilomaniac]

Keep them for One Page Rules. OPR lists Space Marines and Primaris Marines as two separate factions (though I think you can mix to some degree). In fact I highly recommend ditching 10th for OPR, since you can use most new releases with that system. Not only do you have an ACTUAL points system, but there's more mix and matching of gear. The game is far simpler and quicker at the cost of depth. The question is, however, how much fun do you have with either, but the great thing is that it's so simple and intuitive to play that you won't have to invest much time to try it.

[@dakotawharton]

OPR is also usually half the model count for games making it way cheaper even for people who don't 3d print

[@altulbluo404]

Problem with one page rules is it being too simple

[@Smilomaniac]

@@altulbluo404 There are more problems than that, others being that there are no named characters (can't get ghaz or primarchs), it's an alternating activations game, you won't get 'official' unit translations right away and the fact that it's a very balanced game, which takes a lot of the excitement out of the cyclical living game structure that 40k has. "Too" simple however? Nah, the game is more impactful and has a different, quicker, flow. It's great for what it is.

[@volcano3493]

You keep your vintage marines and don´t buy the overpriced new junk. Done!

[@sjhhej]

Nothing to stop you using proper marines as 'primaris'.

[@nuke2099]

@@sjhhej There is when other people won't allow that which varies from store to store. There's people who won't play or care about Legend units period regardless if they're proxied or not.

[@BoldAndSpicy]

@@nuke2099 If they wont play against proxied legended unit then your dodging a bullet because theyre the type of people that arent fun to play with

[@nuke2099]

@@BoldAndSpicy Oh I agree.

[@Mr_Bunk]

@@nuke2099 Who? AllI ever hear about is people who hate Primaris.

[@aidanfedorochko3728]

Part of me is convinced the firstborn will come back in 5-10 years as GW in HH redid the armor marks there. I think it will happen here.

[@tjthehobopainter9173]

if not going for a tournament, just proxy the old version for the new thing. I personally don't like the new marine grav tanks and much rather use the older tracked ones. As for sizes not matching, either a higher build base or give opponent a fair treatment when it comes to LOS.

[@Dram1984]

I still can’t believe everyone let GW get away with just axing an entire line going back to the 80’s. You can bet your bottom dollar this will be normal going forward. “Oh it’s a new edition, you need to replace half your army”

[@LordCrate-du8zm]

... You just answered your own question. "I still can’t believe everyone let GW get away with just axing an entire line going back to the 80’s." BECAUSE IT'S FROM THE FUCKING 80'S! _Everyone_ complains about wanting new sculpts and replacing old things that really don't look good, yet when it happens people complain more! Pick a fucking side!

[@Dram1984]

@@LordCrate-du8zm what are you talking about? GW has released new sculpts for space marines just about every year since the Rogue Trader days and nobody ever complained. What they never did before was say, “oh these sculpts are different units and all your old stuff is useless trash now”

[@LordCrate-du8zm]

@@Dram1984 To be fair, they were making Horus Heresy its own game system at the time (and even now), and they've been _extremely open_ about cutting ties between game systems, with the exception of Chaos.

[@rankcolour8780]

None of these minis are from the 80s. Space Marines from the 80s were retired long LONG ago. They were all metal. Most of the 1st born aren't even from the 90s either, any that are are a small handful of vehicles. Almost the entire 1st born range is 2000s onwards. The 1st born now don't resemble the ones from back then either. This has happened multiple times in the past and will happen again in the future. Most of you aren't old enough to remember.

[@Dram1984]

@@rankcolour8780 I’m well aware. I said the LINE was from the 80’s. About half my space marines are from the late 90’s when I started. Until “primaris” they were perfectly acceptable to play with in all events, GW and non. Now they are in the Legends ghetto.

[@joeofdoom]

I'll never get rid of mine.

[@mikehammer4018]

My Firstborn are going nowhere. They're not just little army dudes, they're solidified memories. The Furibundus dreadnought - literally the very first 40K model I'd ever painted, with an unholy mix of enamel and acrylic. The old-style Razorback with the twin linked plasma on either side of the lascannon - the profits of my first months mowing lawns for the neighbor we thought was scary and mean. (turned out the old man had seen a rattlesnake lurking in his bushes the day before and the animal control officer hadn't been by yet when he ran us kids on our bikes off) The second whirlwind - purchased and painted based on the advice of a naval officer who pointed out that you always need an installed spare. My devestators with heavy bolters - my son used to love yelling "dakka dakka" whenever they fired. And of course, my (very crudely) converted Captain with a jump-pack - my daughter made up an impromptu cheer when it charged a hive tyrant during an in-store game, to the amusement of my opponent and everyone else in the store... and the solemn procession when he was laid to rest after getting utterly slaughtered. (as one does when charging a hive tyrant in 5th) I may not be playing them in current era games of 40k, but that's okay. Between Old-hammer and One Page Rules, the little dudes are still relevant to me. More so, to be honest, than the company that manufactured them.

[@NeumaghAnon]

I have a deep attachment to my marines too, their story and all. I turned them to chaos to keep playing and avoid primaris and sometimes I regret it. It’s like they’ve been robbed of their past glories.

[@armondphilmon]

One Page Rules is my answer.

[@TheM01e]

“All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.” ~Khandalf, White Scars Chapter

[@maxawsometheguy2870]

Honestly you can run them as a red corsair csm force

[@neoisolationist8790]

One option is simply to play an older version of the game. 30K is also a good option. Seems to be getting better as they bring in new armies.

[@nuke2099]

Until they phase out 30k.

[@colinbielat8558]

​@@nuke209930k is not getting phased out any time soon, they made a huge investment in 30k with all the new plastic molds.

[@TheSilverDragon1]

If GW is done with firstborn, then I am done with warhammer.

[@sadlyanuxtakustan8950]

Give one page rules a try, its miniature agnostic so you can still use your firstborn.

[@wastedaga1n]

My homies have switched over to OnePageRules.

[@TheSilverDragon1]

@@sadlyanuxtakustan8950 i am glad more and more people are moving to OPR now a days.

[@Dram1984]

@@sadlyanuxtakustan8950 and it’s a better game than 40K to boot!

[@miroruniverse5622]

Option 2 and now i print the news units i like. No more money to GW from me.

[@tedathalan]

My goal is to have an entire chapter eventually, so I’m keeping my firstborn marines to that end, and use new Primaris to fill in the gaps

[@rynerlute1305]

Amen brother bought a dudes white scars army recently. It is now my dark angels 2nd company.

[@warsmithgalvinc4151]

All my first born are painted as Alpha legion, maybe their still loyal to the emperor, maybe their just pretending to be, as their armour has post heresy markings, maybe their armour came direct from terra, maybe they killed the previous owners and re-painted it, all I do know is I am Alpharius, maybe

[@geenobe9941]

Play 30k or proxy/kitbash them into primaris. So long as the base size is the same I doubt people will care if your tactical marine uses intercessor rules.

[@MalefaxTheBlack]

For anyone who makes their own terrain, here’s a potential idea to keep them on the board even if they’re entirely squatted… Convert them into terrain pieces. Wrecked vehicles, statuary, Terracotta Army, etc.

[@MrElementronHimself]

Im keeping them for the novelty, I suppose. I still love their designs no matter the rules

[@spoonsrattling]

To qoute eliphas "perhaps it's time you embrace a new Deity." Jokes aside it's the end of an era, crazy to think that this may be the last edition of loyalist rhinos. But I guess everything has it's last day in an army

[@friendlyspacedragon7250]

I'm keeping my old marines. They're painted to the "my first army" standard before youtube was there to help and might even qualify for an ebay rescue on a slow day. But they're still a nice reminder of the hobby journey to this point.

[@Fan_of_the_hobby]

As long as they keep the first born “havocs” in shop, I’m happy, I plan on picking some up for a friend of mine for Christmas

[@davijoe2002]

I feel like the Terminator release and scouts release and maybe outriders shows that they could have just upscaled existing units without touching the rules too much and they would have made tons of money without messing the community about so much.

[@swegmann2345]

Wrong channel to be saying this on, but they're models. A lot of scale models don't have an associated game with them, people just paint them for fun and love of the craft. Most 40k fans would probably have a lot more fun if they started treating their models with the same amount of respect, rather than churning out poor paint jobs to meet a tournament standard for a mid game. Love your models. Make art.

[@myrddraalhalfmen9524]

You speak truth

[@timunderbakke8756]

Some of us love the art, even if we aren’t the best at it. Mine are way better than the “haha I got my 3 color minimum” guys, but they’re nothing compared to the true masters of paint I see online. I still have my thousand sons contemptors, even if I can’t technically bring them anymore.

[@andrewberkin5505]

At our club (in Victoria, Australia) gaming club and others in the same state are running 40K 3rd Ed Tournaments. With an emphasis on using first borns. One in June about an hour from me and one in Oct hosted by my local club. Most of us use non marine armies in 10th Ed events. Primaris don't really grab most of us lore wise. Also we host WFB 6th Ed events [Age of Sigmar just didn't appeal to us] which we use with Old World with bigger movement trays

[@leesickler3249]

That area have any job postings for a seasoned forklift operator/warehouse worker? Clean record and willing to relocate...gaming scene here is all very sweaty tournament and tourney prep

[@gabba-hey]

My Space Wolves were part of my childhood, and I'll never get rid of them. The phasing out did start right after I got back into the hobby after a hiatus, which sucked, but Ive kind of let go and look at my remaining minis as a collectors project. I know a few people who occasionally play old editions for the fun of it, so my SW will always be welcome on those tables as they are, and I hope everyone who wants to hold onto their SM armies can find people like that

[@DanChania73Rus]

I played warhammer since i was 15 years old. I had started collecting blood angels back in those days. Since when i assembeled hundreds of minis, done untold number o conversions and so on. It has been almost 10 years. I have witnessed a lot since when: cancellation of warhammer FB, which i loved, drastic and radical change of editions from 7th to 8th, change in GW itself an so many more things. Warhammer was always something so important and precious to me, that i felt every change in a most profaund way. I am a lore guy, always was. And first what i saw was how dumbed down lore has become over the years. The lack of ideas, of compelling stories with some flashes of good books or codex entries. It became so very simple, while still trying to look complex from outside. Primaris marines, votan, Erda from horus heresy series and so many more things. But it all became dumbed down even from the modelling perspective. New models have great sculpts. But that is the only way you'll ever build them for they are all now monopose. And don't start saying "you can repose them and shit", most of the prople who said this never reposed any of their minis or their armies lookd like something strait out of garbage can. If you create variety inspite of models and because of the options those models provide you, then it is bullshit. So what now? For people like me, there is just not that much place in our hobby anymore. My army got phased out, the aspects of the hobby i loved now are fewer and fewer. And so i changed trajectory. I've started playing heresy and Old world. Yes, they are not warhammer 40k, but you do what you do with cards dealt to you. I enjoy those games immensly and see how people who are newer in the hobby discover them and are never the same afterwards. It was a long rant. Just wanted to share something guys. Peace

[@The7guys]

I think it's ridiculous to worry about them "going away," so to speak. James Workshop isn't going to barge into your house, slap you across the face, and steal your Rhinos. I play Deathwatch, so I can't even take most of the firstborn options in regular play when using my own detachment. I have dozens and dozens of Deathwatch Veterans, all of which are potentially on the chopping block. But you know what? With all the time and effort I've put into these models, all the money I spent on sourcing bits and paint materials, I love them as much as any meta unit currently out there. It's a sentimental thing that I don't think many people understand with their own models. Rules are temporary, but paint is eternal.

[@mrfeicco]

I just... consolidated my flamer guys into their own squad, the melta gun guys into their own squad, and the plasma gun guys into their own squad. Bam Infernus, eradicators, hellblasters. Does the job for my local group. I dont play in tournaments or go to official events.

[@greg_mca]

I had enough missile launchers from old devastators kits that I was able to just put them on some leftover bodies and call them Desolators. Cost me not even a fiver to go from bits to new fancy unit. It seems every 2nd hand devastator unit you find online is swimming in plasma cannons as well, so there'll never be a shortage of hellblasters

[@AxelsAndGears]

NO, don't be hasty. Esp if you still like them. They're rare models you put heart and soul into. If you're really concerned about playing with others, maybe you could find some peeps willing to play older editions to accommodate.

[@PelinalDidNothingWrong]

I'm tempted to turn my unbuilt and unpainted Firstborn Marines into a homebrew renegade chapter

[@WCBriton]

I love firstborn. Primaris are kinda lame. The amateur writer's "I did the thing you know, but it's bigger-er and better-er!" No thank you.

[@Kroeghe]

I only got into 40k right before the 10th edition and it's still amazing to me that GW chose to do the scale change for marines in such a weird way. It's especially weird that they actually made it a thing in the lore, and in the rules, like "what models can ride in that transport". And that they made those as separate units too. Why not just, like, make new models? "See those Assault Marines*? These are new sculpts. They're slightly larger because we decided the old ones looked a bit dopey. They're the same in the rules and you can use whichever you want, old or new, or mix them if you want. Also: great sale on the old models! You don't like the new ones? Grab the old ones before our stock is gone!". *(I don't know unit names in SM. I assume there has to be some Assault Marines)

[@fybso3057]

11th edition 2 years away?? Ewwww thats so soon wtf

[@cousinzeke4888]

Gotta keep the whales on the treadmill.

[@ericmumper6821]

It blows my mind that they would do away with STC vehicles. Like, is the Imperium just throwing away the STCs? The Adeptus Mechanicus can’t be okay with that.

[@Delveintohobby]

I'm still thinking of the game with 8th and 9th edition rules in mind, so I'll be fine

[@alvarobarandiaran8848]

I think these are all viable options but I would add one more that GW should've considered from the outset, codex primaris and codex (firstborn) space marines, that way neither would step on each other's toes and they could've kept selling both ranges without any real problems surfacing about which transport you can or can't use and so on. As I read someone say a while ago, it would basically become two options, Astartes on easy mode for primaris and their straightforward monobuild approach, and veteran mode for firstborn given their complexity with wargear and such. If they did that then maybe things like the decimation of the dark angels that we've witnessed recently wouldn't have happened at all. Furthermore, auspex, maybe consider doing some sort of charity auction for your models within the channel? I'm sure you have a big enough following that maybe one of your tanks or a land speeder from your custom chapter would find a new home while doing something good for the community that way, food for thought at least. Keep up the quality work, auspex, cheers! P.s. please share your thoughts on OPR sometime, I'd love to hear your thoughts after playing a couple of games especially since the Venn diagram of firstborn players and migration to OPR is one of a pretty significant overlap I'm sure

[@streetmark98]

the lack of pushback of forcing firstborn to obsolesce instead of scale upgrades/similiar unit styling is directly why GW felt safe squatted extremely new AOS units and entire warbands etc

[@brotherhoodz97]

They will remain on my table, for by the fang, they will never die

[@paulyg405]

I heard a rumour that a classic edition of 40k (similar to Old World) was in the pipeline. I wouldn't have given that a 2nd thought before Old World, but now when you think about it, most of the old ranges have been superseded, so there's almost a full range of old kits out there that you could hinge a game around. and it would allow GW to make money from re-issuing stuff like the old 3rd ed metal Hive Tyrant. It might also attract people who want a dedicated 'casual' game and don't want to keep up with modern 40k. Only problem I can see with this is that the old marine kits, although they're cool, are so badly scaled. I wouldn't be surprised if they did a firstborn kill team as a way to update the tactical squad, or if Heresy does a scouring setting where the old FB range gets a bit of an update. Either way I don't think we've seen the last of the old dudes.

[@davey_lad_3978]

I just got into the hobby and I chose Grey Knights which apart from Crowe is exclusively first born size miniatures. Took the decision to true-scale my army from the start so I didn’t need to worry about a whole range refresh etc. Currently at about 1000 points and have my first game Thursday which I’m really excited for. It’s taking a lot longer and costs more but I know it’s going to be worth it in the long run and I’m actually really enjoying the process as my models feel more like mine as I’ve been able to do with them as I want.

[@NecroGoblin-yl2fx]

we got a lot of lovely models from the HH range, wish they had rules for 40k. as a player who playes both SM and CSM i am happy that i can use the HH and old models to convert CSM models, just made a Chaos Vindicator from the HH Vindicator, and plan on making Raptors from the HH jump boys

[@saintmayhem9873]

I look forward to all the first born terrain kitbashing.

[@cannedsnow4511]

Congratulations on your new chaos/renegade/30k army

[@404NoNameAvailable]

I have a display with all my 2. Edition and forge world vehicles. For all my tanks based on the "newer" rino chassis I have a printable hover upgrade to move them to impulsors and gladiators if the need arises. For most of my infantry I already planned out as which primaris they could be used. Also I have implemented following police for new models: - GW plastic will only be brought if I'm fine with having them as a display piece only - anything I only "need" for gameing purposes will be printed or converted/proxied from stuff I already have

[@MalleusSolum]

One thing I think is worth considering is the fact that chaos marines use a bunch of the rhino chassis vehicles. That makes it kind of unlikely they're going away unless GW give equivalent replacements to CSM too. The chaos kits are basically just the loyalist kits with different decorations on the sprues. It's no skin off their back to keep the loyalist versions in production for as long as the chaos kits are still supported.

[@JerichoPaulhus]

I'll be honest, i just bought a Baal Predator and while it would suck for it to be sent to Legends (something i fully expect to happen along with Tycho, Brother Corbulo, and Gabriel Seth when the Blood Angels codex drops) i think I'll still keep mine as part of my ever expanding collection, even if i cant use it on the tabletop as the hobbying aspect is arguably more enjoyable to me then the tabletop game itself.

[@AJ-oj1xy]

The nicest thing I’ve been able to do is proxy them. My bolter and heavy bolter tac squad marines became sternguard vets. Fitting to make them veterans after being around so long. They do pop off and give me great points every now and then. They also make great intercessors when you need that OC

[@TacticalMetalhead]

I will not be rebuying my Space Marine army. I don't have the time, care, or money for it. When firstborn are gone, I probably won't be playing Space Marines anymore

[@altulbluo404]

most of the old marines can be used as primaris one to one ,no one will be have problem with you using marine with chainsword as marine with chainsword or marine with bolter as marine with bolter

[@Wanten-the-stormtrooper]

I'm gonna keep them to play older editions of 40k with 'em, where the Cashmaris can't go. The lore's better in those ones, anyway.

[@tame_stranger9713]

This is a very interesting video for me. The absolute worst part of WH to me is the edition cycle constantly threatening to change the balance of the game and now to flatly disallow whole armies of units, characters, etc. The edition roll from 3rd to 4th pushed me out of the hobby when I was a kid, and after coming back to it 20 years later, the roll from 9th to 10th made me disengage from modern rules and I'm now collecting for display, modelling/painting at my own pace, and playing old editions or miniature-agnostic rules formats and really enjoying myself. I primarily shop on Ebay these days and buy out of print stuff all the time. I'm working on a firstborn Imperial Fists army as my first Space Marine force and recently picked up a classic dreadnought and Land Speeder Storm. All that said, here are some thoughts: - I can't imagine selling my painted models, and in that spirit I urge you not to. That said, if Auspex sold his Blood Angels, I legitimately think they could go for hundreds of dollars (US) a piece as they're essentially artifacts. Whoever owns that Rhino has an absolute piece of history on their shelf. - As someone who buys lots of out of print sculpts, they routinely go for way above their original price. It helps if they're unpainted or well-painted and it really helps if they're in original packaging, but there you are. I am slowly collecting a vintage Steel Legion army and I CAN NOT find a trooper with plasma for less than $30 (again, US) in any condition. It stings when the original price tag is still on the blister pack and what was $10 is now going for $45. - The fullness of time is vast in 40K. I painted some gretchin in the late 90s as a kid and assumed I would never play with them ever when I stopped hobbying. In 2021, I pulled them off the shelf to use them in my first ever game of KillTeam. Don't give up hope on your classic models.

[@AlunDowdeswell]

my main concern is grav tanks look MUCH worse than tracked tanks, but HH is stealing all the tracked tanks, genuinely makes me not want to collect the vehicles

[@samlivera4915]

Just sold my whole collection. Thankyou for the advice 🙏

[@Nik1718]

I recently started a Blood Angels army and I've pre-emptively scaled my Death Company up to Primaris with some third party jump packs and hammers. Hoping that's future proofed them.

[@patrickconneely8051]

Can take my Firstborn from my cold dead hands. GW has been doing wonders at pushing me towards older editions, other game systems etc.

[@winstonsmith8482]

I salute you sir. I am with you.

[@reddragon4482]

Will only be a matter of time until people invent a kickass game system with only older units. All this primaris stuff is cancer, it's lost the soul and spirit the setting originally had when everything is super futuristic with hover tanks and sleek space marine tanks lol. The infantry with better proportions is great but they have changed everything just to get you to buy everything again.

[@TheIronRyan]

If (more likely when) the first born vehicles get phased out I do wonder what they will do with chaos. If chaos only get the older kits, could it dissuade new players as it could be interpreted as GW neglecting that faction 🤔 I know the narrative needs to move forward but I've never been a fan of the primaris hover tank design.Devastators should just be upscaled and replace the desolation squad imo 🙃

[@tacotruck4x444]

I AGREE 100000%

[@nuke2099]

Chaos Marines already got updated models for the new sizes. And you can still use your older Chaos Marines alongside them and the stats are updated to be the Chaos version of Primaris. You also have other races like both Eldar where much of the line is 20+ years old and hasn't been updated so you can still use much of it.

[@81DaddyMac]

Space Marines, being a signifigant percentage of GW's profit margine, make the Primaris update and firstborne mothballing a thinly veiled money grab by GW. Considering how abusive GW is with their pricing, customer service and rules manipulation, I am done chasing the meta. I will keep, use and enjoy my firstborn collection. I spent 20yrs. searching out and collecting all of the rare, oop models I have gathered for my collection. And, finally, to have a massive and complete firstborne army. For all of those thousands of dollars to get shelved due to the whims of GW really disgusts me. It's like having you character stats reset on your favorite game, overnight. All that time and money and effort lost to the warp...I'm done with GW. I'll write my own rules.

[@pedrogonzalez5340]

I’ve been using my firstborn as chaos Renegades since Primaris took the spotlight. The list below comes out to 1985 points on the nose so I just fill the empty points with an enhancement. Especially with the removal of units and changes to squad sizes it just makes the most sense. Long time 7th edition player so I run a Chaos Warband Formation with a Fist of the Gods Detachment in 10th edition. Anybody that played 7th will see that I still use the Basic Battle Demi Company Structure in my Chaos Warband as my Warband has not fallen to chaos, they’ve just cast off the shackles of the Imperium as Renegades. What that looks like: Chaos Warband Detachment Chaos Lord in Terminator armor (Captain) Legionaries x10 (Tactical Squad) Legionaries x5 (Combat Squaded Tactical Squad) Legionaries x5 (Combat Squaded Tactical Squad) Raptors x5(Assault Squad) Havocs x5 (Devastator Squad) Helbrute (Venerable Dreadnought) Chaos Terminators x10 (Terminators) Chaos Rhino x1 (Rhino) Fist of the Gods Detachment: Warpsmith (Techmarine) Chaos Land Raider (Land Raider) Chaos Predator Destructor (Predator Destructor) Chaos Predator Destructor (Predator Destructor) Chaos Predator Destructor (Predator Destructor)

[@joegroves2517]

I agree hanging onto them is the best. They'll likely never be as collectible as the early edition stuff but I expect a lot of people will be looking for them for nostalgia in a decade or two. But also just because they're your army you built.

[@Dreamcleaver]

Will Chaos Marines ever get update Predator Tanks and Landraiders if 1st born stuff gets phased out? Or can you just use the 30k stuff as base?

[@timunderbakke8756]

I imagine they’ll eventually get a kit refresh at some point, unless GW decides they don’t get them anymore

[@MalefaxTheBlack]

Current GW trend seems to be getting rid of models not adding, so I doubt it.

[@Beinirham]

What will they do with the big rhino outside of Warhammer World? Is a big hover tank in the budget?

[@timebomb45]

Honestly I mostly play OPR and older editions, but since my army of firstborns is mostly infantry with the updated base sizes I plan on proxying those if I ever play 10th or 11th.

[@reddragon4482]

That's exactly it, you can do whatever you want. Tons of people including this channel call warhammer "the hobby" , including GW themselves. They aren't "the hobby" they are a very successful brand in a massive pool of a real hobby (wargaming). Why limit yourself to what a brand allows you lol, all they do is stifle creativity. This video is a joke.

[@catcadev]

To be honest, I think that Devastator Squads and Tactical Squads are soon to come. Most Firstborn units will likely get Primarised now, like Sternguard did (so you can use your old ones) and like the assault squad (so you can use your old ones).

[@professionaldork237]

I sold off about 3k points of Firstborn Salamaders at the start of 10th right after i got back into theb hobby and commissioned a bunch more Firstborn stuff. I took a big loss on it but it got me a good down paymebt on a new Black Templars commission

[@timothylyons5686]

Just rewind the timeline to 999, M 40, use the rules from third through to sixth. If you're not playing tournsments or chasing the meta just roll some dice snd have fun. Its what we do.

[@mlpsh6995]

I started a Firstborn Imperial Fists army in August last year. It's now at 19,000 points, more than 340 models and still not done. I regret nothing.

[@chrisdalton8221]

I bought an ironclad dreadnought just before they got removed. Im definitely gonna keep playing it as long as the venerable dreadnought is still there. The storm bolter is an easy proxy for an assault cannon and the chainfist is just a "dreadnought combat weapon". Heavy flamer still works too. The shoulder missiles are now just for show.