Shuai Jiao VS Jujutsu (dangerous techniques edition) 摔跤 柔術

[@the.wandering.warrior]

Nice! There are also several Shuai Jiao techniques that involve striking into throws, and a few more that involve locking out joints as you throw.

[@Chadi]

Thanks for the help🙇🏻‍♂️

[@the.wandering.warrior]

@@Chadi no doubt, maybe I put them up some time, and /or we discuss them, perhaps there's insightful commonality and differences with the stuff in judo kata 😁👍

[@Chadi]

@@the.wandering.warrior sure

[@chrisprad8325]

@@the.wandering.warriorhave you posted some? I’ve only seen your long fist entries into clinches but no shuai jiao specific strikes into throws.

[@the.wandering.warrior]

@@chrisprad8325 I haven't yet but I'll circle around to it👍👍

[@josephisaacs4172]

Those throws look brutal, good self defense.

[@ivanalejandroortizsegura3455]

Shuai Jiao has influences from many ethnic groups in China such as the Han, Manchus and Mongolians. In fact, jacket wrestling has Manchu-Mongolian influences in the Beijing and Taijin styles while Han wrestling is the jacketless style called Shanxi. it exists during the song dynasty.

[@EvosBasics]

The reverse shoulder wheel, can also be found in Shuai Jiao. It belongs to the “piercing” type techniques that involve fireman carry position. You can also see Brock Lesnar do it as his F5 finisher. Nasty move

[@EvolveNowYoga]

These are some really scary throws!

[@Josh-rs6bj]

Streching your opponents elbow over the shoulder is quite commonly seen in medieval european wrestling as well. Rather than throwing or submitting the opponent they seemed to just snap the arm in half, as it was ment for serious combat rather than friendly sparring or competition, sometimes even turning into a shiho nage type of throw. These guys back then did not screw around. Shuai Jiao is a really interesting martial art!

[@cirlbertjr.2870]

I took a year and a half of shuai jiao back in the day. Though I've become a BJJ fan, I still find myself using the basics from fast wrestling. Wonderful stuff.

[@christophermorocco1709]

Love both styles. Cross training is the way to go for sure. Cause shuai jiao and jujitsu are similar in a way but have their differences. I enjoy training both cause you are adding more to artillery.

[@AztecUnshaven]

Important to note that there are multiple Shuaijiao styles as well (Baoding style, Inner Mongolian style, Sanshou Kuaijiao style, etc).

[@DrMathOfficial]

So how do the different styles differ?

[@The_Hardtimer]

@@DrMathOfficial Baoding style is native han chinese without any manchu influences, but inner mongolian styles are influenced by mongol wrestling. Sanshou Kuaijiao is basically Baoding style but more adapted to modern situations.

[@solagratia1600]

The first technique looks like a straight arm version of shihonage, as well hapkido has this too, great content thank-you

[@garyseven6543]

Got to love Daito Ryu for Maximum damage!

[@gingercore69]

Great video! my sanda insteuctor did shuai jiao too as part of his training 💜💜💜💜💜 The first one is called gyaku nage in bujinkan, but that same namesplies to s bunch of other techniques in the same cathegory, including one thst looks more like s reverse seoi nage, its treated as the same technique for some reason... A cool fact about shuai jiao, its technically older than shaolin kung fu... So, its freaking ancient!

[@bryanreyes7382]

Thank you for this video, Chadi. I have never heard of Shuai Jiao.

[@BacatauMania]

Man, I just love this theory videos you make. I wish more people would do this kind of work for their martial arts.

[@Wushutigercranekungfudragon]

Also shuai jiao differs in that we dont fight for grips. Throws are suppose to be fast. Shuai focuses on defending strikes more. Lastly for me the biggest difference to me is u are not supppse to fall to the ground with ur opponent

[@creightonfreeman8059]

On outer shoulder throw, although the entry locks the arm out, notice Daniel Weng only applies downward force at and above the elbow for the throw. This makes the throw safe in a training or sport situation, or at least eliminates the risk of a broken arm. The Judo guy appears to be cranking down on the wrist and forearm for the throw, which turns the elbow into a fulcrum and can hyper extend the elbow joint and tear the biceps tendon and annular ligaments/articular capsule. Also, Shuai Jiao/Mongolian Wrestling is much older than Judo. There are written records dating Shuai Jiao/Mongolian Wrestling back thousands of years. Since it came first, Judo could not have influenced it historically. There may have been flow of Wrestling information from China/Mongolia to Japan, given the two Mongolian invasions and the import of Chinese culture/writing to Japan during the Tang dynasty. Of course there may be a contemporary interchange of technique between Judo and Shuai Jiao practitioners.

[@eagle162]

No, first off a martial arti didn't have to be older to have an influence, the two Mongol invasions they have less of a impact than people think and did not impact Japanese martial arts, Tang Dynasty influences is honestly overblown perfectly, majority of Japanese martial arts do not s even have Roots or origin from what is now China, writing was also introduced before tang. However What is now recognized as SJ is actually younger than people claim. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIjEeWVnrZ6iatE kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKS0i2mbl7OGfbs Here are some videos. You may also look at this person on zhihu 武术技击百年 - 知乎.

[@fighting.words.ma.library]

I've seen a rule in old Catch manuals banning the "palm up flying mare" (shoulder throw), which I guess indicates the move wasn't that uncommon in combat sports around the end of the 1800's, where it had to be deliberately removed from competition.

[@shadowfighter6445]

Shuai Jiao is definitely one of the coolest martial arts out there, it would be neat to try out to experience the training 😄. Thank you for sharing ☺️.

[@Chadi]

🙇🏻‍♂️

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

I sure love Shao Jiao, and i have practiced Japanese Jujutsu. I would say that both arts are awesome. I think that Jujutsu has more dangerous techniques, i'm not sure. But it certainly would if we were counting the weapon attacks and not only the throws haha

[@niledunn4641]

This is an interesting video, the seoi nage done in shuai jiao is definitely better for self defence then the judo one as you don't leave your back exposed, It was also good of the judoka to show the precursor to the one that judo now uses. Overall a very informative video and once again thank you for bringing this to light

[@7woundsfist]

Like a trip down memory lane. I remember learning a lot of these techniques. The outside shoulder throw was a follow up to a punch counter.

[@rebelape4257]

what art?

[@7woundsfist]

@@rebelape4257 my school taught xingyi with elements of bagua taiji and judo.

[@rebelape4257]

@@7woundsfist im researching pre-sports throws. Throws used by warriors to maim and kill. Do you know the names of this throw in the native language?

[@7woundsfist]

@@rebelape4257 afraid not. My teacher's teacher didn't speak much English and my teacher didn't speak Taiwanese. It why I love Chadi's channel is because I'm learning more about the techniques I've been doing for years.

[@junheceta268]

I'm one of those old tiners you reference in this video, haha. Tgese days my focus is indeed on self defense as I am too old now to compete. I don'tcomment often but I am a hugefan of your channel. The breadth and depth, along with the excellence of your research is amazing. Thank you ever so much. A personal request: could you perhapsput together a longer video focusing on the "illegal"/dangerous throws of Judo for self defense/combat? I kniw you have sevetal separate videos thay deal with different techniques of that type, but it would be a great help if you could put them togethet in one video compendium for reference purposes. Just athought.

[@retroghidora6767]

For any interested in the history Chadi hints at in the beginning, the channel "mu shin martial culture" has a 2 part video series on how modern sport shuia jiao is probably derived primarily from Mongolian wrestling. Interesting stuff!

[@adrianarroyo937]

I believe it's supposed to have a 3 part, but hasn't been released yet

[@conarykao]

There's different styles of Shuai Jiao, only one is influenced by Mongolian wrestling.

[@Wushutigercranekungfudragon]

Nice analysis I wouldnt say primarly though.the only correlation i can see is the jacket relation but that would be it.

[@eagle162]

@@Wushutigercranekungfudragon just wait for part 3 or watch these two again more closely. Kao, that is not accurate.

[@bigchief70]

From a wrestling standpoint I learned a lot of additional options from the russian tie

[@budocity]

Como siempre ... Un excelente trabajo técnico e histórico de las Artes Marciales ... Gracias por su magnífico trabajo 👍♥️👍

[@twinsunpredator7998]

The first technique is pure savage Imagine doing it in a intense scramble stand up

[@fredazcarate4818]

I have but word to describe your video. Awesome!

[@Chadi]

🙏🏻🙇🏻‍♂️ thank you

[@RandAlthor939]

Wow! Good to watch reminds me of being a much younger guy . Every single one of these throws we explored and practiced in tomiki aikido. Some are absolutely brutal!

[@beauarthur2617]

Your content is quite comprehensive, definitely subscribed

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@beskeptic]

Never heard about this Shuai Jiao, thank you Chadi! On that fist technique, the objective is to land uke on their head while breaking the elbow on the throw.

[@AztecUnshaven]

Shuaijiao's roots are very old. Dates back even further than Shaolin Temple.

[@hayatonin6443]

Hi Chadi, love what you do! Great video on the similarities between Shuai Jiao and Judo. Please do one on Judo’s Sasae / Hizaguruma and Shuai Jiao’s versions. Keep up the great work!

[@Janisurai]

Love your content as always, and I think it could be even easier viewing with chapters too, but grateful for all that you do already! Osu

[@Chadi]

🙇🏻‍♂️

[@blakmajk3512]

39! Excellent content!! 👍🏼👍🏼

[@kokovas]

the classic ways as it was used for military purpose, i guess it involved more of qin na and koppo jutsu techniques. more locking, breaking bones, then throw enemies.

[@samuelebincoletto637]

Next time could you do a video about Ju Jitsu Fighting System? In my opinion it's a good way to keep Ju Jitsu alive through modern sport (although i would prefer it was more similar to Shuai Jiao, including in it's competitions) and i wish it was more well known.

[@dhinastyabdullah2692]

The thing is, why don't they allow punches to the head?

[@samuelebincoletto637]

@@dhinastyabdullah2692 I didn't know about this, this is one of the few things i missed about this.

[@stefanschleps8758]

Thank you Chadi! I very much appreciate these comparisons. These are the ones that open our eyes that the different ways of limb manipulation are subtle, but the resulting effects are anything but. Please continue with such comparisons, both for those not wishing to injure their partner, and for those who need to protect themselves from their opponents. Wising you all the best. Laoshr 60 Ching Yi Kung Fu Association

[@Chadi]

Thank you very much

[@rafaelcarrera9436]

It is interesting that the oldest (Shuai Jiao/Chiao or Bohk) and the newest (Sanda/modern SanShou) are the most practical and useful of all Chinese martial arts. No other Chinese systems have ever remained as a dominant means of practical combat for someone to take time to practice for high threat self defense, law enforcement or military combat. Wing Chun can be argued due to it's popularity but has consistently shown to be flawed when pressure tested against better systems. Choy Li Fut and Hung Gar the only other "traditional" styles that have kept a decent reputation as a usable means of fighting, but yet still never produced any world class representatives in combat sport, or recognition within police or military sectors as something comparable to systems like Kali, combat Sambo, or actual IDF Krav Maga. No disrespect intended towards traditional kung fu practitioners, just my observations of over many years of interest and involvement in martial arts. On a side note, southern dragon/lung ying has very interesting circular attacks that lead directly into various grappling applications similar to some found in jujitsu (e.g. outside-in hammer fist to face leading to undertook of arm with rear arm, and a frame using lead forearm.) Sorry for the rant. Another terrific video Chadi.

[@christopherspohn8071]

You know it's interesting how before judo - jujitsu is said to have been the larger more developed martial including throws take downs and hand held weapons with different approaches to newaza. Today judo is larger more developed and contains more martial skills practical to fighting. Just very weird! I guess all things follow a curve like that.

[@davisbarr9112]

Giatu kakaguruma is like a reverse wheel throw in judo or wrestling it's like a reverse fireman's carry ... only its getting in around the back instead of in between the legs. 1 Does it work as well ... it seems harder. 2 What I like about it though is it is in a striking context. A good grappler still might not be vulnerable to it during a strike. But it provides an option besides four directions throw in aikido if you are using an arm bar to disarm someone and their arm rotates alone that line for some unknown reason without landing a throw.

[@davisbarr9112]

That's the aikido throw I'm talking about. I'm not sure it would work any better than a reverse kataguruma in judo.

[@davisbarr9112]

It might depend on what you're looking at when you change levels. But as someone that uses some aikido some judo and some wrestling some of everything it's nice to think there's a low level 4 directions throw. Don't get me wrong though 4 directions IMHO if you're in position isn't bad it's a medium success decent throw ... but a lot can go wrong you have to be good at preventing that. So again ... low line option is good. Hold onto the arm it has the weapon. But on that logic ... What's wrong with the Korean seoinage? Reverse arm throw? Just a different set up ... I like the concept. I could set up a four directions then go for dome kinda guruma. Gotta remember they are armed!

[@davisbarr9112]

You can't let go of the arm or they will kill you.

[@davisbarr9112]

But 4 directions isn't a throw I'd go for initially how about you? I would gofor ikkyo, if that didn't work some kind of bent arm ikkyo. If that doesn't work ... then the energy is going to go into 4 directions almost certainly if not an arm drag or clinch.

[@davisbarr9112]

I guess I like it ... the aikido throw you've featured it a few times. It would be nice to hear if it's a good working street choice. I feel like being able to pull someone into four directions throw in aikido if an ikkyo fails makes sense ... And changing levels as well as having that low line makes sense.

[@SantaPorter420]

Do you have any videos of Bartitsu?

[@titusthetitan5505]

Great vid, thanks !

[@DeanNatheos-eq3hl]

I believe that the Chinese style is the grandfather of judo excellent video and have a good day 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊.

[@davidturner7001]

Thnx!!!

[@denismorgan9742]

I take that there is many takes on shuia joai as there is jitsui but can learn from each other and are probably related as there is too many simularities to be ignored. Not saying one stole or borrowed from the other or even that stealing and borrowing moves is wrong. Use what works for the situation.

[@eagle162]

They have different Origins and are more different than similar however a interest was taken in late qing and early Republican era. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIjEeWVnrZ6iatE You can look up is person on zhihu,武术技击百年 - 知乎 a translator would give you the gist of the reading material there.

[@chamber-hr8oo]

5:49 - Ancient F5

[@jtilton5]

H Chadi, I think Nishio Sensei's version of UDE KIME NAGE is more similar to the Shuai Jiao version than standard Aikikai style. Here is a clip of his version. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rnzZaYuiZ82Mebc

[@c2lhu]

This is called gyaku seoi nage

[@c2lhu]

Here is Kiyoshi Tamura teaching it kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZ65qX6VpNZ_kKM

[@bryuchiha1617]

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@James77721]

Hapkido shoulder throw... There are some details missing though. Overall, the Hapkido version is more effective IMO kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqilnHyobbupp6M

[@ironmikehallowween]

True. I see Hapkido gets a lot of grief from today’s more accepted arts, but Hapkido has virtually all of the techniques illustrated as effective in many “combat sport” martial arts, only they are far more damaging.

[@ricardomobile8479]

Which one is that style you've said Bokh!?

[@okami433]

Does anyone have this book in pdf?

[@3Pillers]

👍

[@conarykao]

How does Shuai Jiao have Judo influences if it predates Judo?

[@eagle162]

to make a long story short it doesn't predated it, it's a much more Modern Art. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIjEeWVnrZ6iatE kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKS0i2mbl7OGfbs Here is some videos. 武术技击百年 - 知乎 here you can read about the history regarding some Arts on zhihu by this person.

[@conarykao]

@@eagle162 It actually does predate it. Judo is a descendant of Shuai Jiao. All Japanese martial arts were descended from Chinese ones.

[@eagle162]

@@conarykao no, take a look at that stuff already.

[@eagle162]

@@conarykao to elaborate even further majority of Japanese martial arts do not roots or even influence from what is now China. even having that exit only existed there.

[@conarykao]

@@eagle162 lmfao that's the dumbest thing I ever heard. Almost everything in Japan was influenced by Chinese culture in some way. Especially their martial arts. Karate is a descendant of southern gung fu. Judo is a descendant of Jujitsu, which is descended from Shuai Jiao and Chin Na techniques. Chinese culture is way older than Japanese culture, hence Japan was able to take most of Chinese culture and turn it into their own thing.

[@alchemistjeff]

Any evidence of Judo influence in Shuaijiao? Bold claim!

[@eagle162]

Here you can check this video out. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIjEeWVnrZ6iatE You can also look up this person on zhihu 武术技击百年 - 知乎.

[@alchemistjeff]

@@eagle162 I've seen the video. However, he was wrong about the history of wrestling in China. When he said little was mentioned about wrestling, the fact is that wrestling was constantly mentioned throughout Chinese history.

[@eagle162]

@@alchemistjeff that's not what he said and not what he's talking about.

[@WayneManifesto]

I don't think Shuai Jiao is a "real martial art" yes every country in the world was grappling, take mongolia and bokh for instance but Shuai is a modern copy cat. I've been hard pressed to find any actual evidence it existed before 1910. The term might because all words have meaning and can pop up in history before their use and meaning changes. I can't find any depictions of it until it mysteriously appears in the 1900s. It's almost as if it's a response to Judo from China and a claim that they were doing similar first. Seriously try to find it's existence before Judo. You'll find grappling in China but not this.

[@eagle162]

Here these videos may be of interest to you. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIjEeWVnrZ6iatE kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKS0i2mbl7OGfbs

[@teeng6940]

Becareful of opinionated people in the comments section.They want to spread their beliefs as facts. “Everyone is an expert”