Shusui vs. Enma: Which Graded Sword Is Roronoa Zoro Stronger With? HEATED DEBATE!

During episode 136, Lawrence tried to tell the rest of the cast that Zoro would've got to the Haki levels that he did reach with Shusui the same way he did with Enma. Everyone disagrees with that statement and it gets a little bit heated. What do you thin??
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[@supercadet111]

Enma is basically a training blade. Oden would cut kaido just as well with Shusui, but Zoro wouldn't, because he never output constant haki to that extent before. He didn't even contemplate it.

[@petergeramin7195]

If Zoro wanted to output more haki into Shusui he could.

[@Naldinho456]

​@@petergeramin7195 yh but zoro would never water hid haki on like 2 attacks

[@thereal1tak_363]

THANK YOU!!!!

[@TheBlackShinigami]

@@Naldinho456 The point is that Shisui had no room for improvement. Enma was meant to be with Zoro. Oden was the gatekeeper for the sword and didn’t aspire to the heights of Zoro. Zoro acquiring Enma means he can grow and Enma can become stronger with Zoro than with Enma

[@antoinewright1425]

@@TheBlackShinigami I believe shusui will end up being his strongest sword enma will be the sword he grows the most with

[@noonespecial1333]

How I think about it, is that swords have a personality like people. Enma has a personality comparable to Odin, It wants to have a strong wielder and it wants to fight strong people so it can become black or become more powerful. But Shusui who's personality is more like Reyuma, more reserved and calm wouldn't be as demanding on Zoro because was already black and already had a great wielder. And its possible that it Shusui didn't demand that much of Zoro is because their Haki signature is similar.

[@xamineseethru9913]

I like that. Well said, that actually makes sense.

[@pitoseavy4523]

Headcanon until proven

[@xdrago5602]

Shusui was canonically said to have a bad temper so its most definitely not reserved and calm. Shusui seems like a hothead. Fact of the matter is that Enma just is a stronger sword that demanded more out of Zoro. Enma demanded Zoro grow stronger if he wanted to wield it. The combination of Enma being a stronger blade and Enma forcing Zoro to be stronger is what made him cut Kaido, that's what the stories actually given us with no headcanon.

[@RimuruTempest-wl1ru]

@@xdrago5602 enma was never stated to be a stronger sword both are great grade blade but shusui is permanently forged black which makes it stronger than enma since we know black blades are the strongest blades in the series

[@noonespecial1333]

@@xdrago5602 I mean in comparison to Enma he is reserved. Any higher grade sword is going to demand something of its user. but Shusui wasnt demanding so much of Zoro that it was a problem. He just called it a problem child because he had never used a sword of that grade before. A regular sword that is a low grade anyone can use. But it takes someone with a large amount of Haki to use higher grade swords. I think that Zoro is the same strength when he fought Kaido with Enma then he was when he had Shusui but he just wouldnt have used as much Haki in his attack because it wasnt being forced out of him. He could still do it but it would be harder.

[@lozanozavalacesari.3473]

I get what Lawrence is saying, but he forgets Zoro's fight with King in that fight Zoro gets to the conclusion that instead of controlling/retaining his haki he needs to let it out and he realized that because of Enma. Shisui would not have asked zoro for that level of haki

[@tlungu962]

which is weird cause of all people i wouldn’t think Zoro needed to be told to go all out. we’ve seen him go all out in pre timeskip & he subconsciously used haki. I guess since Zoro never went all out in post timeskip he never had a chance to go all out w/his newly acquired haki. haki blooms in battle

[@Explanda1]

I see it like this. Haki was flowing throught zoro at a constant rate like a focet with a little bit of water presure and shusie was fine with this amount of presure. But enma loosened the valve causing more haki to flow out of zoro, enma was more demanding and increased the water presure.

[@lijahb.1326]

Enma taught Zoro the required Haki level to fight the big dogs

[@nicholaspatterson5969]

Agreed

[@nolans1675]

Enma and Shusui are the same grade, the great grade. Enma isn’t a black blade though so I think it has more potential since it can be upgraded still.

[@navysingh5454]

Great editing. Love this style a lot. Great work from the new editor. Keep it up.

[@heartofdawnlight]

the way i see it the reason Zoro's Haki was upgraded when he got Enma, is Because he had to overpower enma. its no different than Luffy upgrading his O-Haki mid fight with katakuri. Zoro dominating the soul of the Cursed blade Enma both pushed him to upgrade both his A-Haki & C-haki.... So could he have Cut kaido with Shusui? Yes! Could he have if he never picked up enma in the first place? probably not!

[@davidmccain4126]

I diagree with this in a way you won’t understand hear me out listen either if Zoro would have gotten enma or not his haki would have still been upgraded. He would have had advanced conquers haki regardless. It just makes sense story wise and plot wise

[@Silver-Sage-T]

@@davidmccain4126 I feel like that goes against everything we learned about Zoro's dilemma with wielding Enma. His haki might've been upgraded but not at that point, Enma was basically like you can do this and if you can't I'm gonna kill you, and it was at that point Zoro found out he had it in him because he had to.

[@davidmccain4126]

@@Silver-Sage-T so do you believe in your mind that with our enma that Zoro won’t be as good or relevant to the story ? Or to put in better words to be able to scar kaido like he did ? Because if he truly unlocked acoc before that I feel as if the sword dosent matter.

[@TrueReverse74]

​@@davidmccain4126Yes he would have, but it's about timing and how fast he'll get it, Shisui is just a chill but strong sword that works with zoro. Enma is a sword that forces Zoro to evolve. Zoro would have gotten conqueror's over the 2 year timeskip if he had enma instead of shusui. Because enma only accepts wielders of a certain level.

[@heartofdawnlight]

@@davidmccain4126 so i understand what you mean & its that narritively Zoro should get adv C haki... narritively that does work extremely well for Wano... thing is Enma is his literal only path to get there in such a short timeframe. Zoro has had 0 training whatsoever with his C haki, ever since we first saw it back in Enis lobby. he cant control it. it just happens sometimes when hes at his final limit... But if we look at every time Luffy's C haki got stronger it was when battling against another conquerer... first it was training with rayleigh, but nothing for fishman or punk hazard (BC there were no conquerers)... next was Chinjao, then Doffy then Kat.. All 3 conquerers... Ryou training is kinda haki training that he got from a non-conquerer. but its also just a technique of aplication more than just strengthening it.. Enma is that journey for zoro its just really short. BC its not a bunch of drawn out battles. Enma in a way is a conquerer, in that it conquers the body of anybody who grabs his hilt. the sword has a spirit & soul... Zoro conquered that soul He forced a blade that consumed all before him but oden himself into submission. Theres a significance to Zoro calling himself the king of hell & i dont think it has anything to do with his strongest ability being ashura. its because he conquered a demon. Narratively you could just give him these as freebies. or even give him a little eye of the tiger training montage, but lets not act like it would retain the meaning that it has. BC it just wouldnt. Without his experience with Enma he wouldnt be the King of hell... Hel i dunno if he'd be the king of anything

[@pebalii6184]

LOVE the new effects/ funny Gifs/ memes made about the debate keeps me involved and interested in the conversation continue what your doing

[@shadowolf2292]

Love the Editing in these longer videos keep up the great work

[@kakarotkills7]

the New Editor is 🔥 Especially LOVE the visuals on the side & sounds & jokes💯

[@aerosassain]

why thank you

[@055blackman]

Enma and Shisui are the same grade blades, which is Great Grade blades. I also noticed that there’s a significant difference in terms of destructive power between supreme & great grade blades. Look at Yoru, Ace, Murakumogiri.

[@leodalyon8854]

Right but ones a black blade the other isnt. Emma not being a black Blade but still in the same category as Shisui is crazy. Meaning when it becomes a black blade there’ll be no argument.

[@crazygamer-mr6nr]

@@leodalyon8854 Not necessarily, and isn’t close to being one? I thought they said in the story that it was close to being a black blade.

[@Hunter_Brandon]

Enma was Zoros training arc in Wano, since there were no samurai on or above his level left after 20 years of Kaido. Boss Hyogoro might’ve been able to teach him like Luffy, but Enma just expedited the process.

[@salem150]

“Lawrence you’re just wrong” is the most common phrase I’ve hearing a lot lately

[@CountryTortoise]

2:07 both of Oden's swords are the same level and made by the same person if I'm not mistaken, so it makes sense that Oden put 2 slashes on Kaido

[@JudasGoats]

Enma was training wheels for zoro at the time but if you run it back he’s doing the same thing to kaido with any sword

[@0goingmerry0]

Fire editing 🔥🔥🔥 new guy's already cooking

[@aerosassain]

appreciate it! 😎

[@kakarotkills7]

@@aerosassain🔥🔥

[@Naldinho456]

​@@aerosassain your vids are fire too

[@imr.madness]

Yo good vid yall ❤❤

[@sibusisogumede94]

Zoro wasn't training to raise his haki to the extremes with Enma he was training to tame it from acting up. The reason why Enma didn't act up when he was fighting Kaido is because zoro was doing exactly what the sword wanted which was pouring out everything he had. He realized later that taming Enma was the wrong idea, he always had the haki or will to do it. This is all thanks to the swords PERSONALITY not it's power, all cursed blades have a personality.

[@Undeadsheperd]

I wonder if the owners will gets put into the sword through their usage overtime. Might be a special effect from swords that are passed down.

[@mahirsharma7789]

question - it's kind a out of Topic Do u think Shanks Coc Haki is stronger than Current Rayleigh

[@nornor7845]

I think what this conversation is missing is this: If Zoro had Shisui and Enma at this moment (post enma training), which blade is stronger with zoro's current strength?

[@userrburnerr]

Literally the whole purpose of Zoro getting Shusui was so he could finally have a sword that couldn’t break. And then during timeskip he learned armament. Also Enma and Shusui are the same grade, but if Zoro blackens Enma, it would be Supreme. The only reason Shusui is a Great Grade Blade is because it’s black. Or else it would be a grade below Enma.

[@xSoriya]

I like the new editor

[@kakarotkills7]

FACT ! I like the pictures they’re putting up now💯

[@aerosassain]

why thank you good sir… or madam… sir or madam

[@abdourahamanediallo6159]

Although one punch man and black Capone bring huge big points, I would go with Morpheus on this one since it’s all linked to haki ( ex : Zoro could NOT survive Emma at thriller bark) But damn it’s a good debate tbh 😅 I think we need more understanding on blade in relation to haki , like black blade or just the relation between the haki and blades

[@OtakuTalkOD]

All I will say that's the one that loves Zoro and has him as his top three favorite characters. I remember during wano and rooftop fight running to my group chat to complain about the fact that Enma feels like a magic sword, and that Kaido being cut felt more like a feat for the sword/oden and not Zoro. And I was also mad that it invalidated in a way my argument about Sanji and his raid suit and later upgrade being different than Zoro and his swords

[@saurabhsingh6227]

Also, swords are the point of focus here, because Zoro himself said that the sword will kill him if it keeps draining haki like it was….so the sword is responsible, and it did to zoro which nothing else did which he wielded in past

[@SleightlyPersonal]

Enma as a conduit is the right answer for me. Yes, Zoro put his all into that attack, but raw power poorly focused can have a lesser effect. Mastering Enma meant that Zoro had to learn how to control and focus his haki output. And he only learned that while fighting Enma’s demands and Kaido simultaneously.

[@louismw4513]

When you talking and then you realize you’re on the wrong side of the argument😂😂

[@razorrrsixx]

I acc agree w him Zoro said I’m going to put everything into this attack which was very dif than what happened in zoro vs king, in that fight enma was demanding a certain level of haki but for kaido it really never did🤷🏾‍♂️

[@Richard-re7pb]

Also, Zoro's last fights before this were pica way back in dressrosa... Hard to talk about feats when his last fights were before things started ramping up. There's nothing to specifically say he could or couldn't cut kaido prior to enma

[@jacenwade]

I thought the whole reason was enma was drawing haki out, because it WANTED conquers haki, and when Zoro unleashed his 9 sword style it drawed it out without Zoro knowing. With shishu, it was a different deal, because 1. Zoro had never faced an opponent of Kaidos caliber yet, so he never had an instance of potentially drawing out his conquerors yet 2. Shishu was already a black blade and didn’t require anything to put you whole power into it. Basically enma drew out a power that Zoro didn’t even know he had. I also just think by making a blade “black” it just increases its status in the blade community while also making it nearly indestructible. Idk if it necessarily makes the sword just super super powerful.

[@micahjo13]

I think Lawrence is trying to say is, could he be able to cut Kaido with Shisui now that he’s learned to draw out more haki from Enma?

[@akosamorah7633]

In both oden and zoro it seems like Enma fast track learning by force adv armament and adv. conquer and apply it to their other swords

[@nathanwelling8948]

Every time Zoro used Enma it made his haki grow to where he became more accustomedto using it, I understand what he's saying, but the point is Zoro wouldn't have had the haki needed to cut Kaido if he had stuck with Shisui. Their both of the same tier, but Shisui has already achieved the ambition of it's original wielder, Oden had another ambition that he couldn't achieve after his journey ended.

[@MstarSmith]

I always interpreted it the following way. Imagine a sword being a door for a house. The swordsman skill and potential being the key to it. Within that house you find great but equal power. While Shusui's door is closed Enma has a tiny crack open already. So I believed for Enma to show and also make it easier for Zoro to understand what can be achieved and also how. Ultimately, to help him grow enter that house with any sword going forward.

[@ClassicKidSan]

Lawrence is correct The scabbards were able to cut kaido. So no enma zoro would still cut kaido.

[@dwightsmith1123]

It took 4 of them all together to cut Kaido on the scar he already had from Oden, that's not the same as solo cutting through Kaidos scales and scarring him. Just like Fighting Grows Haki, Zoro was Fighting Against Enma Which Grew His Haki. Shusui wouldn't have the same.impact and he wouldn't have cut Kaido

[@ClassicKidSan]

@@dwightsmith1123 thats where you are wrong. Zoro’s asgura already used conquerors haki. A full power everything on one shot zoro would cut kaido without enma.

[@Ericsolonon0114]

People tryna downplay Zoro for gettin a strong sword that forced him to get better meanwhile Luffy got a whole godfruit 😂😂😂

[@ronlewis1554]

You should stop trying to compare Zoro to Luffy he will fall short every time. It's really the difference in haki mastery that places Luffy far ahead of Zoro.

[@Ericsolonon0114]

@@ronlewis1554 Has nothing to do with power I’m speaking about the story and how they revived their power ups.

[@Naldinho456]

​@@ronlewis1554 my question is with haki alone will luffy be a yonko not including his crew

[@ronlewis1554]

@@Naldinho456 I don't want to seem like a hater but no

[@Naldinho456]

@@ronlewis1554 that's what I said

[@jayrivera82]

@1:18 perfect meme to describe law

[@lordaragon901]

Rather than power, Enma being so demanding was a crutch that allowed Zoro to train his control over his haki, meaning that rather than Zoro simply not being able to pull that much haki out of him, he actually could but with too little control. Personally without Enma his conqueror’s haki as well as his control over his haki wouldn’t be at its current level, but now that it’s reached the current level Enma performs worse than Shusui would’ve. The point of him getting Enma is to have a permanent handicap until he eventually fights Mihawk. It’s for long term growth, but when the time comes that he puts Enma aside and needs to fight at his peak in the moment without accounting for future growth, then something like Shusui would perform better simply for not having a drawback. Basically, it performs worse specifically to make him stronger in the future, while Shusui would’ve been a weapon used when he’s already at his peak, which is exactly why I think Enma makes sense not only because of growth, but because Zoro might not need Shusui when the time comes anyway since the Wado Ichimonji, his no.1 sword, the one that’s been with him all this time, and the one he recieved from Kuina whom he made a promise with to reach the top, could end up becoming a black blade in the future, thus replacing Shusui and FURTHER justifying the trade off for Enma.

[@anthonyparmer9249]

Sounds to me like Enma was only incentive to get stronger and didn’t actually make Zoro stronger. He had to train to master it but it was his training that let him cut kaido not the swords powers specifically

[@praxeditz07]

Well what I think is that shusui is completel blacked blade so it's true power can be only unlocked by like character Shimotsuki Ryuma and Mihawk. Then on the other hand Enma is at the level of becoming the blacked blade so it's basically unleashed the power in zoros body which was locked in that's why it's drained zoro's haki and stamina and after Enma evolved into total blacked blade then zoro can use some kind of special power with it it's my thoughts 💭 so take it lightly 😂❤❤

[@austynkozak4073]

Arnt Enma and Shusui Both 21 Owazamono? The same Tier of blade? that means at the moment theyre equal, but Enma can be turned into a Black Blade making its potential higher.

[@Richard-re7pb]

I don't think he had enma long enough to elevate his haki like they were talking about in the intro

[@dwightsmith1123]

Why not, Luffy Learned Ryou in the same amount of time. The entire point of Enma was to Force his Haki to Grow. If Zoro had the same level of Haki prior to wano then he should've taken out Pica with 0 effort from ground level just like he cut the horn from ground level.

[@ahuntpropertysince1988]

Shusui was like the grandpa as Emma was more the dad playing you 1on1 only one going to block you every shoot and make you get better.

[@LuckyWunder]

I never expected to see Larry and Seb agree on something that I also agree with. The max potential that he put into dead mans game would not have had the same capacity for damage if Enma had not forced him to new heights in terms of haki output. Shisui has a strong spot in my heart but it simply was a blade replacement after losing Yubashiri at Enie's Lobby. Enma was a sword that demands strength from its wielder to the degree that NO ONE ELSE COULD SURVIVE HOLDING IT. It demanded to be conquered.

[@huwaidy9941]

I want to know what Oda sensei will say about this badly 😅😅😅 and i want to believe what was just said

[@al-amingashash3905]

I don’t think you guys got his point, when Zoro used dead mans game, even without Enma would have been the same because he had used the form before which was later explained to be conquerors haki just because Zoro didn’t know doesn’t mean it was because of the sword.

[@HeavyDumbbells]

Oden never drove enma to the fullest. No advanced conquerors haki and no blackened. Zoro did ach coating and blacken the blade. Oden can never fill zoros shoes cos he died in a weak way. Man spent his time dancing instead of getting stronger

[@raider_reaper_4194]

Enma > shusui for now...

[@abdelhafedhbuhaibehalmurad1319]

Well it's seems we are not gonna see shusui anytime soon.

[@hushsilence8932]

Zoro received enma 3 days before the raid Chapter 955 page 8. There's no possible way this man skipped through YC3 to YC1+ in two days. This man didn't even make that progress with Mihawk training him for 2 years. He would've cut Kaido with Shusui as well. Probably not to the same extent though.

[@JanizMakudomaru]

Enma is a sword that wants to get to the next step but needed to find a worthy wielder in order to do it. Zoro with Shusui got him stronger, but its journey to blake blade was over and its rest had to be at Wano so didn't it never asked Zoro to push himself to be the wielder ot needed him to be.

[@Coolgamer..]

For me I think Enma gave the direction and push that Zoro needed. But it was still Zoro's haki and hard work that ultimately scar Kaido not Enma.

[@adamheath4599]

You guys are confusing did not with can not. When Zoro cut kaido with conquerors haki, that was not the first time Zoro used conquerors haki. Maybe he doesn’t consistently use that much haki in his attacks, but if he’s powering up one of his most strongest attacks, he would definitely use all of the haki he can.

[@Rosko_de_Soul]

The Wado Ichimonji encompasses his entire essence , it’s the only sword he can be his best self

[@joeygamer4]

I think if you just used the word training and saying Zoro was not at that level of power, the point would've got through quicker.

[@tinasheshoko6307]

Im with lawrence on this one, Enma demanding Zoro max output was revealed later during his fight with King. When i saw him cut Kaido i didnt think of enma or any of his blades but of Zoro haki

[@jimnewbie]

Has anyone talked about Mihawk's' reaction to seeing shusui?

[@law2248]

Simple way to end this argument, why did Kaido have 1cut when Zoro hit him with 3swords? It was enma not zoro

[@pitoseavy4523]

Enma im sorry but how is this close if not for it being a black blade ? one was able to cut kaido etc....while the other can't especially not like Enma like if Kuma was hit by enma that shoulder is being cut at least the metal is being damaged

[@Naldinho456]

​@@user-qv9ch7df4l true words spoken perfectly

[@Billy_Herrington1969]

Enma is for those that are not as proficient with haki, Shisui would be better for those that already have that level of haki control

[@epicarno6943]

Crazy how everyone is almost right

[@fooseym7631]

I believe wat he saying got some type of truth wen zoro cut kaido kaido stated so you have conquers too

[@RobertsonIsland]

Enma and Shusui are the same grade atm, if Zoro turns Enma into a black blade that would progress it to the highest level of legendary blade

[@jefferycalvert3586]

Enma forced Zoro to exert more haki than he was used to. Enma in a sense trained zoro not only in tapoing into his conquerer's but how to use

[@JLKaizen]

Enma was the reason. The sword forced him to utilize haki like a conqueror. That’s why Zoro had to fight against it when his arm shrank

[@RiskbreakerKiku]

Both katana have different purpose. Enma’s end goal to be a black blade to find a user who can satisfy Enma’s lust for Haki. Even Zoro is afraid when he used the sword but eventually give in to Enma which help him cutting Kaido and defeating King For Shusui’s end goal (we got no idea its purpose), the katana already attained its purpose during Ryuma’s lifetime. Definitely, both swords can draw out Conqueror’s Haki from Zoro, its just so happen that when Zoro got the Enma he realized the latter will help him be stronger

[@KT-wl8lj]

In my honest opinion..Shusui being given to him by Ryuma was like a right of passage and a taste of a Great Grade Blade. Enma seems like a training blade to train his Conquerers versus his Armament. With that being said I believe if Zoro did somehow leave Enma considering oden is put to rest and pick back up Shusui wielding it with Conquerers truly making Zoro a Ryuma in the flesh.

[@CataclysmicDoge]

Enma is way more potent in terms of abilities and also possesses far higher potential. When Ryuma blackened Shusui, its rank went up to a Great Grade Blade. Enma was already a Great Grade Blade. Once Zoro permanently blackens the weapon, it will be a Supreme Grade. Furthermore, unlike Shusui, Enma can also draw a lot more Haki into itself.

[@Romanj28]

Enma is considered to be way stronger than Shisui. He nearly died trying to use it a few times and he had to put more Haki into the sword to control it

[@dimension40gaming]

shusui is a higher grade than enma simply due to the fact that it’s a black blade. enma is a lower grade but has the ability to take haki from the user and throw it out. which is why zoro needed to upgrade his haki. cutting kaido was mostly zoros effort but enma’s ability helped on the ranged slash by outputting more haki than necessary ( likely it would have cut kaido where as the same attack with shusui would have simply smacked him. with the only real difference being in haki output)

[@LegenHarryThing4076]

I think it's just that Shusui is superior than enma because it's already on it's upgraded state, enma needs that kind of grade to cut something... What I mean is, Shusui is already maxed weapon so every fight that Zoro went into besides having expertise helped him a lot to the point that he's just fighting opponent with ease And now that enma is on play, Zoro is not used to drawing extra juices of Haki that it made he's fight a bit longer and more difficult It's like you are used to play on controllers and then you tried to use a fight stick, that simple Sword skill is not affected

[@akosamorah7633]

Wouldn’t Emna technically be have more potential or at base strong cause they are both same grade but shushi is a black blade

[@tokenman12]

Emma is a higher grade sword at the end of the day. Ppl forget that shusui already turned black. Before it was a black blade I doubt it was anything special like enma is. The day enma turns black, is the day it becomes the highest highest grade sword in existence.

[@crowofjudgement4718]

Enma is basically the measuring stick needed to stand a chance against kaido. Zoro could do his regular training, but he was still not known of his. Look at luffy he advanced all his haki types and in the end still would've lost against kaido if it weren't for the devil fruit awakening

[@cfcratz6283]

I agree with Lawrence oda was confusing with the cutting kaido. I think Lawrence has a point the conquerors haki is more of a point than the blade.

[@mossibites2758]

the answer here is the will of the blade vs the will of the user. Shisui is an older blade whos true master was one of the greatest and reached the pinnacle of swordsmanship and because of that and the fact that his ghost basically handed him to zoro it acts according to his will. This means that shisui is one of the best swords in terms of grade in the series but at the same time it means that its stopped evolving. On the other hand you have enma a relatively new sword that has not reached the peak of its ability whos will drives it to push its wielder to the brink of death so that it could evolve and even in most cases would kill them if they didnt have a stronger will than it to control it. This is the defining case for the sword and zoro. Zoro is a worthy master for the sword and his willpower is strong enough to control enma and at the same time enma constantly pushes zoro to output more and more of his power to keep it under control evolving his haki and the sword to the peak of its strength. Ultimately this means that they push each other to grow but that does not necessarily mean that zoro would not grow without enma. Enma needs zoro not the other way around. That's why simply put could zoro have output the same strength with shisui as with enma the answer is yes but would he be able to reach greater heights with enma or shisui and i think the answer is enma due basely on its will.

[@user-rd4kf8si8d]

I believe its just a training moment for zoro he's obviously had that haki inside him he just needed enma to tap into it earlier because we dont wanna see our boy get lost trying to learn conqueors coating 😂

[@TrueTalk_podcast]

both are true, I can see zoro going to haki training with shisui and reaching such levels. but story line wants to make emna significant as well for zoro's development as a character

[@dwightsmith1123]

How, How would he suddenly Train To those levels without Enma. The Point Of Enma was to make Zoro train to use high level Haki. Just like Fighting Grows Haki Zoro was Fighting Against Enma Making His Haki Grow. Shusui Wasn't doing that and no one at wano except hyogori can train him in Haki and that wouldn't have been possible.

[@Naldinho456]

Yall gotta put some respect on GOATBEARD his weapon is the only ons that isn't a sword and its a Supreme geade blade my theory is that they changed the term from Supreme grade swords to Supreme grade blade because of him

[@Shwo0pty]

zoro is in a constant battle with enma sense she drains his haki, so in that instance with everything on the line in his eyes he just broke through his limit he would've done the same with shusui, enma doesn't give him power is drains it from my understanding, he had too learn haki control when wielding her which means his ap went up just on the fact of controlling is haki so in turn yes he would be able to do the same with shusi sense its his haki at the end of the day

[@sirstripmercer]

I got the feeling that when Zoro slashed Kaido, Kaido was thinking of Oden. My interpretation was that slash came through his defences because Kaido faltered when reminded of Oden.

[@heartofdawnlight]

Kaido's defenses arent like Big moms.... Kaido Is just mega durable. Maybe its his draconic scales, maybe its his natural hide or whatever he had for skin beforehand as an oni. You dont turn off Kaido's defense. otherwise he wouldve died a long time ago during one of his suicidal spells or when the world gov caught him the what 40 times they did?

[@Syllights]

Anything to discredit zoro huh

[@parmar__12]

Lol so big mom had flashbacks too

[@claytonhill782]

Enma and shusui have the same rank. The question is was shuisui ranked that high prior to being made a black blade by ryumma.

[@CloudyDaze]

All I'm hearing is Zoro NEEDED that sword because he couldn't pull it out without it and that don't sit right with me. We got Luffy being the chosen one conversation going on but Zoro needing to rely on another person's effort to get him to the top feels... nasty. And I'm a certified Zoro hater. But to think he couldn't have done it without enma feels weak.

[@redmaxxs]

5:50 Zorro didn't know he had conquerors. He couldn't even control the sword fully at the point it literally pulls everything out of its owner. That's why when he went full power so easily when he gave the sword everything to make that last attack on Kaido, the sword wanted that. It was helping him.

[@milzhere]

He didn't go full power easily, and it didn't help him, it was literally killing him and the only way to live was to max his haki. It's not a free powerup, if he didn't already have the neccesary haki he would've died, that's why kinemon told him not to take it.

[@redmaxxs]

@@milzhere @milzhere I'm talking about when he was fighting Kaido and Big Mom and he was given the sword everything to make that attack that landed on Kaido. It's easy to give everything you have when something's trying to take all you have that's why it was easier. I'll edit it so it can be more crystal.

[@milzhere]

​@@redmaxxs I get what you're saying but I don't think "easier" is the right word. It's like saying luffy fighting katakuri for 12 hours straight made it "easy" to unlock future sight. No, the point is that it's made EXTRA difficult, because pressure makes diamonds and all that. Enma set up the conditions for zoro to use conq, but because it was so difficult to control he had to max his haki, otherwise he dies.

[@redmaxxs]

@@milzhere I'm talking about when he put all his energy into the attack it was easier for him to do that because the sword was already trying to take it. I'm not talking about anything else just that part.

[@milzhere]

@@redmaxxs I understand exactly what you're saying, doesn't seem you understand what I'm saying and how it applies to what you're saying. All good.

[@TheKingmario14]

Is it possible. Yes. Zoro could have done damage if he full sends a attack im sure a scratch or flesh wound would hit kaido. Would it be as powerful or likely, no. Enma is enma due to raw damage alone. So susui may not win in damage but im not gonna sit here and think zoro couldnt damage kaido with susui. If he got his haki right, he could still damage him

[@parmar__12]

Shushui wasn't asking? Did shusui also had someone like kaido to ask for such haki?? What a bs

[@DmanXIIX]

Zoro grew after using Enma. So having never used Enma, he might not be there yet. Now, at his current level, he could cut Kaido with Shusui.

[@Therealblxckmale]

Lawrence is right on this one lol.

[@Breezey_Dubz]

Emma pulled a Goggins on zoro 😂 shisui was only a force multiplier for his haki which never really pushed him like Emma did, sure Emma is force multiplier too, but required MUCH more haki to even use as such. It's like for an example: game logic here, but if shisui was a lvl10 sword and zoro was lvl10 right? Then Enma was a lvl 15 sword that zoro had to level up and be on that level to use it

[@iindigoprotagonist2068]

Bro doesn’t Emma have odens halo embedded a bit ? I just watched that episode for the first time 😂 cmon ya gotta get it right even the samurai had the essence of oden hence how they were able to cut kaido at one point or it may just be kinemon

[@iindigoprotagonist2068]

Haki^^

[@aevnmanoftru5508]

Enma did fr pull the coc out of zoro... I still remember the test and coc is all about imposing will... That sword is deff on a different level

[@ericrobins5188]

This is not a fair debate cuz it's two on one. BUT Enma wanted the smoke. The higher grade sword will come into play later in the story. It was Enma time to cut!

[@zyrus917]

I think that swords, all swords, are "haki hungry", and a black blade is a fully sated blade. Enma, and others alike, want to be used, and therefore make weak willed people to serialkillers. I believe thats what shiryus deal is. His sword made him so bloodhungry, simply to draw his haki out as much as possible, and his role as Impel downs guard slowly turned into one of "free haki meals". Enma is a very hungry blade, and realized Zorro is like a foodtruck. Im not sure tho if black blades simply want to be sated, like a meter that needs to get full, or it the whole sticks is something like "i permanently infuse you with my haki to stop you for stealing it". Almost like when you by an extra set of fries for your GF so she doesnt steal yours from the plate. But this may also mean that as soon as someone does that, they are weaker without THAT black sword. This would also be cool, because if blades have a will like its heavily implied, then haki, the will based powersystem is almost like giving it a soul. This would also tie nicely with klabautermann, but with ships its not haki thats asked for, but love.

[@ehabl8816]

Wasn't the effect of Shusui is doubling any attack?? I believe that's a lot stronger then Enma.

[@piecegxd2262]

Its pointless to keep talking to those two when theyve made up their minds that hes wrong, they just dont get his point. Might as well just end the convo there.

[@HiiMarkell]

Off topic…what if usopp gets a boost in egghead from punk…what if red haired anc red army vs 5 elders and blackbeard pulls up and takes dragons fruit…then we will get dragon feats with shanks…then garp would get included somehow because he eventually fights blackbeard pirates so he would have a hatred for blackbeard as the 5 elders lose so wold government is weak now dragon is out the game then shanks and luffy will have to fight blackbeard as garp might get training with luffy like hyogoro…garp might tell luffy more about dragon…blackbeard doesn’t rock with roger pirates…whitebeard pirates…shanks pirates…and kills luffys dad gaining his power…sabo might get beat by kuzan…garp sabo dragon and shanks would influence luffy to fight blackbeard…blackbeard could be endgame with maxed mobility in his bag…shanks and luffys wins against blackbeard but shanks dies to fatal wound from blackbeard…cross guild pullup late fight and the navy shows up to the aftermath of luffy winning and leaving…and it looks like cross guild deafeats shanks and blackbeard…cross guild might recruit survivors of blackbeard pirates and the navy might believe cross guild is allied with strawhats/scared them off/or navy didn’t see the strawhats leave…buggy gets number one yonko or closer to pirate king in the news papers…what if lol

[@HiiMarkell]

Then it would be akainu and the navy vs luffy and buggy…shanks is dead so mihawk is the last strongest swordsman…that gives zoro chance to fight mihawk..i think they will fight closer towards where laugh tale is or the one piece…and the strawhats will win somehow against buggy and crossguild…buggy will probably laugh before he gets beat and will say luffy will never see the one piece…then strawhats leave and when luffy gets sick from being too close to the one piece they will get seperated or something like usopp getting lost on a island and he doesn’t have a devil fruit and usopp will be the one to discover the one piece but he tries to find the straw hats and can’t…by the time he gets to them i think chopper would find something wrong with luffy and see that all the of his fights have accumulated and they never realize how bad he was because it didnt really show until he got sick from the one piece and he becomes like roger being sick so he decides to be executed akainu and koby…endgame

[@HiiMarkell]

One piece could end on that…luffy and roger execution or garp could try to save luffy with rayleigh boa prolly kid law and strawhat fleet then they save luffy…akainu kills garp…Rayleigh would be the marco of this situation…and luffy would now fight back due to garp being dead…then gear 5 pops out and luffy wins and the world is watching and luffy decides the world with his last words…as he’s the joy boy of this era…pirate king…navy defeated…elders defeated…final valley could be luffy vs imu if blackbeard shanks akainu crossguild garp dragon elders..would all be covered from that point

[@user-xh5pb9yd1j]

if haki can cut then kaido would've gotten 3 scars. enma took more haki than user gives it and enma took coc from zoro even zoro didn;t know that he had coc but enma took both arnament and cocs coated and cut kaido. without coc no one can cut kaido, zoro already fought and tried to cut but it just hurt kaido slightly but kaido didn't got any scar or even drop blood.

[@Syllights]

Enma is temporary downgrade that has much higher potential in the long run The point is oda didn't care enough about Zoro as a character to give him a fight that makes his haki bloom so he gave him enma as a haki training tool

[@amitshinde2000]

I think that shushi was way too strong for wano zoro to ever wield it or shushi to ask zoro to put more haki because if he did zoro would have just died, and i do believe that shushi wouldn’t want some brute just swinging a sword i think it’s about skill and technique it is a black blade it could just cut through kaido without needing to use haki but a skilled swordsman like ryuma which was the one who wielded and made it black, that’s what makes it special the ability to cut nothing with a skilled swordsman and its intent to cut something without killing it just as he did with that green haired snow woman