Blood on the Clocktower - Shut Up & Sit Down Review

[@dinobuckwell2999]

"requires 8-13 players" me dreaming about having that many friends:

[@benji-menji]

Don't worry, just having this game will being friends in like a magnet.

[@stuffandnonsense8528]

Yeah, 2 player is my usual maximum.

[@steelman774]

Maybe we can install a giant mirror on the side wall of the living room. 👥🤣

[@Drdollarsign]

To be clear, it’s actually 6-21 (including yourself)

[@chessthecat]

Or that much space. I'd have to rent a storage locker to host this game. Not that I would because it seems pretty standard. I did a spit take when he said it's his favorite game.

[@ameerr]

For those flaming SU&SD left and right for this review: Today Blood on the Clocktower became the #1 party game on BGG.

[@captaincrash9002]

because nerds really know how to party /s

[@borahbros1664]

I’m so happy my favorite game has gotten this judgement, I was reading through some of the old comments, and it just got under my skin how desperate they were to prove that this game is not good, despite not playing it themselves, and when told why their issues weren’t actually issues, they pushed back. This game is fantastic and I love the recognition it’s gettibg

[@troywinters8123]

And is well deserved, such an amazing game.

[@nathanevans4157]

This game is definitely too expensive for me to buy. However, one of my friends saved up and got it himself and brought it to our college board game club. I'll never forget this one game-- I got the Zombuul role, so basically, I was a demon that could "die" once in the game and still be alive. We were also playing a small group of people, 6 players and the storyteller, so we had the Toymaker rule in effect: once in the game, the Demon needed to pass on killing someone on an applicable night before they could win. On night 2, I decided to go for a wild play and kill myself. My plan was to pretend to be an annoyed good guy the rest of the game and throw everyone else completely off my trail. However, I was shocked when the next morning we were informed that no one had died. That's when one of the villagers told the group that she was the Sailor and she had made me drunk, and since no one died I was probably the Demon. I immediately went into crisis aversion mode and said that it was the demon probably just passing to fulfill Toymaker, and it was a coincidence. Thankfully, everyone else agreed with me. I decided to kill someone else turn 3, gave my minion his instructions on who to pretend to be (he looked a bit confused when I pulled him aside, but I explained and he got it), and one of the towns people came up to me and said he knew I was good because of his role. Didn't really make sense, but great! I killed the person I meant to on night 3, and things were going well. I was in the room by myself while everyone else had secret meetings outside, and the Storyteller asked me how I felt. I told him I felt great, and he looked happy. On the last night of the game, people were getting pretty suspicious of me, so I pinned it all on my town partner who "knew" I was good, and so we executed him and I jumped out of my chair in excitement. Evil had won! The Storyteller then told us that Good had won surprisingly, and he looked at me with a huge grin and said, "and that includes you too!" Apparently I was the Lunatic, which I'd never even considered, so I only thought I was the demon. The actual demon was the Pukka, his power was that he pointed out someone and then they died a night later. So on night 2, no one died not because the Sailor targeted me, but because Pukka had chosen someone else. That person was the same person I chose to die on turn 3, by pure coincidence we matched up! My minion had been confused because he knew who the actual demon was and it wasn't me! The Storyteller asked how I felt because he knew I was the lunatic and he was having a blast watching me play so confidently evil! The towns person who "knew" I was good and who I had gotten executed turned out to be the actual Pukka, so by executing him I'd won the game for good! My god, the room dissolved into hysterical fits of laughter as I stood there in complete shock. I'd managed to win the game perfectly-If I had been evil I would have won since enough townsfolk were dead, and since I was a town person I won since I'd executed the actual demon. This game can definitely produce some magical moments I'll never forget, even with small groups of people.

[@Moleoflands]

I was going to question ST making a demon drunk to sailor, but that is incredible

[@kirkwhite3399]

It truly looks incredible, but it's £152 with shipping... Holy moly

[@lkjkhfggd]

That's a really funny story, it definitely makes me want to try the game again. The one time I played it was more or less like playing a long version of One Night Ultimate Werewolf. Not a bad time, but nothing particularly memorable happened.

[@FrankEGee88]

This is one of the most amazing stories of this game I've ever heard. lol! Thanks for sharing!

[@artieschmidt3039]

damn, I got the chills at the end xDD amazing story!

[@llamaz6731]

reminder: there's a tabletop simulator mod of this game that you can play with random people, and it's an easy way of getting an experience of this game, and I loved it

[@lincolnr615]

I am extremely lucky. I have a regular board game group that consists of roughly 30 people. I introduced BotC to the group and many of them have fell in love with it. We have multiple sessions each week, with several members serving as host. Our last game had 17 players! I can’t say enough good things about this gem!

[@Merusdraconis]

I'm rewatching this video with my retail copy - I remember when this video came out, there was a lot of criticism about how it doesn't explain how it's different from other social deduction games, and now I'm finding that it's been in the video all along. There are a ton of thoughtful little rule tweaks that make it a collective puzzle rather than an exercise in paranoia and lying to your friends - which means a very complex game state for the Storyteller to keep track of, hence the felt-backed tokens.

[@3thanguy7]

having now gotten my copy of blood on the clocktower, i have to say that quinns' controversial opinion that this might be the best board game of all time is worryingly accurate. this game is so good

[@lkjkhfggd]

I finally also got to play it, and I really cannot see the justification for this level of praise for the game. It is a great game, for sure. But at the end of the day, it's basically a deluxe version of Werewolf, or a long version of One Night Ultimate Werewolf. I can really only see Blood on the Clocktower being a great time at a convention where you can get a high player count and have a nice, big space to play it at. At home, I would rather play multiple rounds of ONUW, or Spyfall, or Werewords, or some other hidden traitor game.

[@jjmj4971]

@@lkjkhfggd you've got a lot to say for a person who has only played it once.

[@lkjkhfggd]

@@jjmj4971 Lol it really wasn't a whole lot to say. Do you think 3-5-ish sentences is a lot? Do you think you have to play a game many times before you can have a valid opinion? I would happily play BotC again if I could, but that's part of the problem. It has a high minimum player count. Even if I owned the game I would never get groups that large together. I'd also probably have to be the storyteller, which is not my preference. It's a great game to play at conventions though!

[@jjmj4971]

@@lkjkhfggd no I've just seen your other comments where you're typing about how much you didn't find it that great. You don't need to wax lyrical about a game you have barely experienced the surface level of. Also; BoTC doesn't require a high player count, it needs 6 at least, that really isn't that high.

[@lkjkhfggd]

​@@jjmj4971I went and looked through the comments on here and only saw one other one from me, and I didn't say much there either. It wasn't even particularly negative of a comment. Playing the game a 2nd time is not going to radically change any of my thoughts on it. 1 play is enough to have a valid opinion on this game. A complex game may require a 2nd play if the first play was basically just learning the rules. Also, 6 is a lot of people, a lot of people to have play this game and have a meh time due to not enough players. General consensus is the game is best at 8-12, which is definitely a lot of people. I've got lots of other social deduction games that thrive at 6 players.

[@isaacthimbleby8926]

Would very much like to see a SU&SD play through of this (one day when social distancing is a thing of the past). It would help me understand what makes this game good.

[@Lezzyboy87]

Check out the NRB playthroughs, so good

[@brockshelves5288]

Quinns holding that huge "book" as the storyteller is madness and I love it.

[@Mister_Peppers]

Sounds like the moderator role is more of a DM than just telling people to close their eyes. As such the components seem designed to work with that concept of this player having to be mobile, stealthy, and have enough options to accommodate late players as well as impaired players. The laminated hand outs are designed to have wine spilled on them. The tokens are designed to stick to the narrators box while he moves about the room. Yes a cheaper version could easily be made, but it doesn't seem like the experience they want to make. If they decide not to make a discount version of the game with smaller cardstock handouts, a smaller slimmer box, and maybe some sort of cheaper moderator tool I'm sure some resourceful person or company will (assuming the game is as good as it seems).

[@dhirajpallin2572]

I agree the components are nice but it's still very overpriced. Consider that it would still be an expensive game if it were half the price. Laminated paper and felt don't cost that much!

[@SamA-gh3kq]

As a frequent Werewolf moderator I gotta say even just the description of the storyteller’s role was enough to set my heart on this game. I’m in no position to buy it now and am about to move but if I can get it and find a group in my new area I would be delighted to play this game

[@SamA-gh3kq]

an update for anyone scrolling through: I bought it the other day. Beautiful game. Running the first sessions with a very enthusiastic group with week.

[@corvidconsumer]

how did it go?@@SamA-gh3kq

[@BacchusGames]

@@SamA-gh3kqhow was it?

[@SamA-gh3kq]

@@BacchusGames it’s been amazing with my group; lots of great memories and now a quick suggestion for almost all cocktail nights we host

[@zachburns8214]

I’ve watched nearly every review and listened to every podcast. SU&SD has been incredibly harsh on expensive or overproduced games. Harsh…. But FAIR. It’s been far harsher than I care about but I always respected SU&SD because they clearly established their values and were consistent with them. SU&SD spent many written reviews and podcasts completely ragging on CMON for their overproduced games, reviews like Ex Libris and Time Stories where price was at the CENTRE of the issue on whether they recommended it, and constantly voicing displeasure with the trend of expensive Kickstarters and telling people they should be cautious when backing. They constantly tried to fight board games exclusionary aspects with price being one of the main issues. After watching games I like a lot get put down and not recommended for price, I still went “You know what, it’s still fair, and they’re consistent with their values”. But when a game THEY love gets the overproduced $100 Kickstarter price tag when there are social deduction alternatives for a fraction of the cost…. Instead of being as critical they were with other games, they went and tried to justify the cost. It feels odd when they balked at Miniatures increasing price but then praised “Real felt, and laminated sheets!”. I don’t like inconsistency in values. I will say this though. I was worried about the new SU&SD staff after watching The Estates live stream, they seemed a bit too shy. That’s been put to bed. Fantastic articulation and oration in this review. Was a pleasure to listen to.

[@StyxTBuferd]

Yeah, especially since the components in this game really don't need to be so flashy. Why 3 sets of roles plus extra? Just go with one and leave the others as deluxe/expansions. Why a felt lined book? Just use a board and erasable markers. They don't need to be flashy in a CMON game either, maybe you could argue there is a bit of extra purpose here (easier to handle or organize for the Storyteller) beyond just looking cool, but I feel like SUSD are raving about it so much more just because it's social deduction and they've always loved social deduction the most. This feels like a package that could have been distilled into $30 or $40- I'd even take it at $50. But $80 plus shipping? That's pretty ridiculous.

[@Fezman42]

It is worth noting there are resources for a free print and play version.

[@dylanmcla]

@@Fezman42 Well then 80 dollars really feels insane.

[@edosanTV]

Yeah, I love SU&SD reviews, but I was annoyed at his “if you care about the hobby” comment about the price. Yeah, I care about the hobby but I know enough about games to not want to drop triple digits on the very best iteration of a genre I don’t care for. I’m happy that he’s excited about this but let’s also acknowledge this game is definitely not for everybody.

[@blahn361]

Yes I feel incredibly uncomfortable regarding their approach to the price section too. When Quinns started mentioning the price was $79, I genuinely thought he would lay into it for being pricey and overproduced. Compare this to their Twilight Imperium 4th Edition review. That's a game that has tons of stuff, which could be called "if anything cheap" by the same logic he justified the price of the game in this video. In the Twilight Imperium review he dug into the price, talked about how it was, and offered the alternative of buying the 3rd edition to get mostly the same experience at a lower cost. I'm sure Blood on the Clocktower is good, but it would have been nice to see a similar point made when discussing the price. With little effort, you could play a game of mafia at home that is 80% the experience you get with this game for no cost whatsoever. I'm not a huge mafia fan, but other commenters who are seem to be saying that with a little more effort, you could include enough house rules to get an experience that's 95% what you get with this game. It's just disappointing to see their normal apprehension on pricey games like this go out the window. Whether or not it was mindful and intentional, it's hard to say. But they said themselves this video came from a place of them wanting this game to get funded, and that absolutely influenced it's production.

[@SaMadden99]

This was art. Jokes, ambience, excellent camera, script and overall passion for the game. Wow. Great work

[@colinrivas3750]

I remember when this video came out. I said out loud $125 for werewolf? The SUSD boys have officially sold out. Fast forward three years later, I can't imagine my life without this game in it. The SUSD crew nailed this out of the park. I should never have questioned their integrity. They were right and I was wrong. Love this game.

[@beruga]

The game looks really interesting but I have a few reservations: 1) The game is highly dependent on your group and especially the story teller. I feel like if some/most players are inexperienced it will not go well. 2) Dying early still seems like a big problem. Yes, you get ONE more vote, but you lose your power and basically get taken out of the game. If this happens early on, you're basically sitting around for 2 hours watching your friends play a game. This is the reason that I don't play Mafia/Werewolf and I don't see that it's been solved here. 3) A high player count (8+) ensures that this game will not hit the table enough for most people. That's especially a problem with point 1 because it's the type of game that requires multiple plays to really understand the depth of the roles. 4) I have to mention the price. $95+ for a game like this is extremely steep. I think they should have included a cheaper base version with fewer bells and whistles so that more people could afford it. Overall, while it looks like a lot of fun for the right group, I just cannot see this working for the majority of people, myself included.

[@StyxTBuferd]

Agreed. I think Quinns is really excited to share this game with us because of how particularly unique the Storyteller is, and he's somewhat right to- a GM in a deduction game is new and clever and certainly never been done before, but to insinuate that a game like this deserves to exist because of how unique and even amazing to play one part of the game is and that criticizing it means you "don't love the hobby" is silly. Great ideas don't live and die with individual games. I highly doubt BoTC is the last game we will ever see with this mechanic just because it is the first. What I mean to say is that I feel what BoTC does can probably be distilled. Each of those individual scenarios could have been the base game on its own merit, and the rest could have been expansions. The variability you get here feels like a deluxe edition for a base game that costs maybe $30. The felt book is ridiculous and not at all necessary- an erasable marker and board would've done just fine. Even the player count- I don't see why you couldn't have that Storyteller role in a deduction game that plays best with 5 or 4 or even 3 other people and have it work well. I think if we wait around a few years someone will make a deduction game in the same vein (maybe even the same designers will do it) that is more elegant, more distilled, and much more approachable than this beast that will, at least for most of us, only ever be played at conventions.

[@cloyphishs1049]

Hey! I’ve been playing this game for a while and am an experienced storyteller from Sydney: to answer: 1) A more experienced storyteller definitely enhances the game, and of course you’re required to know the rules and how the characters work. It’s very in depth but we all start somewhere. I’ve seen many inexperienced storytellers run equally as exciting games. It’s very accessible 2) nope. There are good characters who’s sole purpose is to die to get info - and it’s incredibly satisfying when it happens. Because dying has been associated with negative gameplay experience in usual social deduction games, it’s hard to conceptualise that it’s not here. Most players will die in every game. The two most powerful things in this game is your voice and your vote - use them correctly and win for your team. The level of satisfaction is equal, if not higher, when you die and still win for your team. This is what sets it apart. 3) yes you need a high player count. 4) I understand why people don’t want to back this at the purchase price when the general view of social deduction games are werewolf and mafia. When you play this, you’ll be able to make a much more sound decision on its value :)

[@StyxTBuferd]

@@cloyphishs1049 "There are good characters who’s sole purpose is to die to get info" That doesn't necessarily address the problem if you're not one of those characters, and I'd assume from watching the video that those characters are not the norm. Someone will die early through basically no fault of their own, and unless they got lucky in drawing that kind of role, the game may still end up being a negative experience for them, no? I'm not saying that dying in this game MUST be terrible by the way, I'm sure it handles it better than Mafia or Werewolf. My point is simply that if you're running this game with a certain group, it's likely that that group is already okay with dying in Mafia and Werewolf- I feel that volunteer bias is being slightly ignored here.

[@cloyphishs1049]

I understand. As I said, it’s hard to conceptualise if the social deduction benchmark is mafia and werewolf. Yes, there are characters who would rather not die, which adds to the necessity for the good team to pull of bluffs for the demon to not kill them or for them not to be executed. There are so many ways this can be played. As I said, most people will die in a game, but this is a game of teamwork. Whereas werewolf’s consequence of dying is “you don’t get to play anymore”, clocktower’s consequence is “I feel safe to share my info”, or “I can be seemingly more trusted”.

[@cloyphishs1049]

And yes it can be viewed as a negative experience to die early, and many who initially have that experience do so because they initially link the connotations of dying with those of werewolf, but by the time the game ends, they end up jumping up and celebrating their team’s win, they have already realised that their death did not negatively impact their experience, and potentially even enhanced it

[@Le_Codex]

As someone who has now delved _deep_ into BotC, seeing Quinns dance while everyone has their eyes closed to pad out the end of the night is the most relatable thing I've seen

[@malrex0mari]

Aaah, having a big group of friends over. Good times...

[@CaravelClerihew]

I like SU&SD’s reviews a lot, but they do have a tendency to overhype things. So, when I hear a grand statement like what was said In 0:35, I see it more as hyperbole... and weirdly end up liking a game less.

[@MirkoCano]

In the past SU&SD have really liked games but not recommended them due to their high price (e,g, Container among others). I'm not sure yet if this will get played often enough to justify that price (if only it was the 78 dollars,..the shipping adds a lot). You could get One night Ultimate Werewolf and Two rooms and a boom, and you will still have money left to get the Resistance and Secret Hitler. I really need to think about getting this one.

[@mella4376]

Yeah the shipping is insane for most of Europe and ROW

[@mella4376]

Mark the UK got off easy, EU is 35 to 45

[@mella4376]

And yeah splitting the cost can solve any problem, but the shipping is still mind bogglingly high

[@korenn9381]

@@marks6928 but if you split the cost of 3 games that's also very affordable. Still leaves the question if this game is worth 3 other games in the same genre?

[@paulrumohr]

It's an excellent point that for the same money you can get a variety of amazing social deduction games

[@RichGwilliam]

Hm, I think not the game for me - I'm not a massive fan of Werewolf - and to be frank the video's a weird tonal shift for SUSD. I get that you wanted to get the kickstarter funded, and I've got every faith in the your integrity, honestly. I'm just mentioning this so that I've voiced that it sort of feels less like the usual SUSD gushing over a game you love (and loving it enough to recognize its faults) and slightly more like an infomercial. All the same, if you believe in the game that much I'm sure it's great for some people, and I hope it's funded, and if this type of video is the future... well, it's your creative space, your choice. Just flagging my opinion.

[@marcosfernandesdesousajuni9576]

Seems fun but also super expensive for what we get, plus that huge box makes for pretty insane shipping costs as well, for a game that you need a pretty big group of people to play...

[@posadistpossum]

It is an insanely fun game, I got to play it recently and it is hands down in my top five favorite boardgames, and definitely my favorite deception based game. It's definitely expensive but if you can afford it, it's tons of fun

[@eamonnoflaherty2]

Aye all true. I guess for me I just know I'll get my money's worth- lots and lots of time spent playing it. I'm not aware of the calculations used to arrive at the price but I know the team somewhat, and an ethic of getting it played as much as possible would definitely have been in play so I can't imagine the high price is caused by greed.

[@marcosfernandesdesousajuni9576]

@@eamonnoflaherty2 I'm guessing the box and it's lining are probably the reason for the crazy price.

[@eamonnoflaherty2]

@@marcosfernandesdesousajuni9576 It would be part of it for sure. From my perspective that speaks of staying true to the vision. I'm glad it's worked out so far.

[@amethystwolf24572]

@@eamonnoflaherty2 If the game could be significantly cheaper (and I have a hard time believing it couldn't be!), then wouldn't be better for it to be? Its not like the components add anything to the game itself...in fact, they could probably cut the cost of the game in half by selling the tokens, with an app for the Storyteller, instead of the box. They could even lock the app behind a game purchase using promo codes or something. Also, I think the number of groups who can regularly field 10+ players for an hour and a half long game is going to be pretty rare.

[@AndrewRichesson]

TBH, I'd rather buy Gloomhaven for that kind of price. And I don't think Blood on the Clocktower is even close to being worth $95 in components + box. Thanks for the review though!

[@IoFoxdale]

I'd imagine the felt backed counters and box are the main driving force of the price.

[@MjrLeegInfidel]

I backed Tainted Grail after days ..weeks of grueling grumbling and research...a 1000 of hours game play for 115.. this not so much.

[@EngMadison]

I backed Age of Steam for $82 shipping included, comes with 10 maps and mini poker chips. That's been the most money I've dropped on a single game to date. I have no reservations about that...I wouldn't pay more than $60 for this.

[@funkoxen]

id actually like a review of dirty grail. i'm on the fence between late backing that or getting gloomhaven.

[@juliespellmore9240]

Have you played it I as you all this simple question? You buy a game not just for components but for the experience and every single person that like social deduction I know love the heck out of this game come on! Play then review the price again!!!

[@totallynotabot151]

In order to play this I would need about 8 people who like to lie in social games; are those included in the giant box? No? Back to board games it is.

[@littlenikke]

As part of a gaming group that struggles to find games big enough for us all to play (6-8 regulars, plus the occasional partner) this has me really exited!

[@stupetify]

Seems cool, but I can't accept a polished version of werewolf as the best game ever especially for like $80 even if the bits are nice. The aspect that no one knows what's going on doesn't make the game better, it makes it random. For the same price, I could have two top selling games like Great Western Trail or Innis and frankly, this game would have to be mindboggling in both innovation and content to justify its cost especially when there are much cheaper implementations of the same concept.

[@justducky834]

Totally understand the sticker shock. I’m part of the BotC team (full disclosure) and I can assure you that this takes Werewolf and turns it on its head. Because every character matters it gives great bluffs for evil as well as reasons good characters might not want to share who they are. With Werewolf it’s almost dull to me to be good because it’s just generic good. I have been playing and running games since 2014. And I assure you we tried everything we could think of to lower costs but at the end of the day this is what works best with the game. Some elements would limit the shelf life of the game (ala Velcro) or make drawing character tokens more likely to falter (magnets that would stick to each other). The three editions in the initial box is not to make it more expensive (the box would be the same size regardless and we’d rather give you things than empty space). We can’t control shipping or VAT.

[@albertjones3867]

justducky834 But what does BotC do to deserve that high price point? I have played dozens of versions of Werewolf and many of them have quite similar rules to BotC (except the gm, that appears to be unique to me).You say that every character matters as if that was some kind of revalation, but I have played at least two variants where that is also the case. Now normally I wouldn't care but what makes me a bit annoyed by this is that BotC is asking for over 100 bucks (if you include shipping) for a game that has been free for ages and does not seem to make any meaningful changes that haven't already been done before.

[@juliespellmore9240]

Yes imo price point is nowhere near where it should be for the experience you get out of it! Not one game the same not one experience not relived over and over again!!!!!

[@amethystwolf24572]

@@justducky834 So let me ask why, instead of tokens that are crowded with words, you didn't use cards (which are easy to shuffle, easier to read and cheaper)? And why, instead of this oversized box with felt (and felt is amazingly cheap, btw), you couldn't have developed a simply app or used tried and true methods such as pen & paper or dry erase? Everyone keeps saying this is the only way it worked, but no one seems to be able to say why. You can't ask the public to just trust you (a brand new untested company) that your game is worth the money you say it is, when it seems clearly not!

[@austin6606]

How about $0 for the same game without needing to have a big box with you? lycanthropic.org

[@pendellobass2977]

Is this a paid preview? I hope it is not. SUSD is one of my favourite reviewers however if going paid previews or reviews or creating anticipation for Kickstarters because of a vested interest, it really will put their integrity into question for future reviews. Hopefully not.

[@classicsubmarineguy5477]

It doesn't help that every comment thread is full of play -testers trying to persuade people to buy the game/ justify the ridiculous price/ hype it further

[@stevenightfall6634]

This is what I thought too. I was waiting for it to be mentioned at some point.

[@StyxTBuferd]

@@classicsubmarineguy5477 Yeah, especially since they aren't particularly good at directly addressing people's concerns. No one has definitively answered why magnets or markers wouldn't work instead of felt. They all say something along the lines of it not working as well, which is probably true, but is it really THAT much worse that it's worth it to mass produce a risky, never before tried component as a first time designer and publisher, particularly one that only affects one person in the game? It feels more like the designers are being self-indulgent here to not compromise their "vision", which is a shame because it's just going to make this game that much less accessible for people to experience. It's such an obvious criticism and yet Quinns is saying I hate the hobby because I want more people to be able to try this game. Those tradeoffs are worth looking at, and to not only not address them but to vilify anyone who does address them is just pretentious.

[@amethystwolf24572]

@@StyxTBuferd Or why felt is so expensive all of a sudden? Economies of scale mean felt is more expensive when I buy it retail, so why can I easily obtain this much felt for far less than $1 but they have to pump the price of a $20-40 game to $80 plus huge shipping costs?!

[@classicsubmarineguy5477]

yeah, i think i read a comment saying that magnets wouldnt work as they would stick together in the bag, so i guess polarity works differently in australia, as well as felt being pound for pound more valuable than gold. I backed mythic battles (which SUSD did not review, for reasons of cost and availability, and just seemed to dismiss in preview, which is fine as they made their kickstarter policy clear) and for the same cost got two huge boxes full of some of the best miniatures i have ever even seen, a great game and a tonne of cardboard. Im guessing this game is not being manufactured in China, like most other kickstarters or something, but it just doesnt seem right.

[@CampervanCookout]

I was fully onboard and keen until the price, a game requiring that many players will sadly only get played rarely so I’m struggling to justify it. Edit:Just checked it’s $30 shipping too and probably tax on top.

[@alfgwahigain5544]

Yeah, I love the idea of this but can't imagine getting a regular group to play it.

[@sados0t]

It would have been an insta-buy solely based on how excited you guys were. The KS page cooled me down to basically a cold 'no' with the $45 shipment cost to Central EU. I could have a perfectly good big box game and a copy of Resistance: Avalon just for this amount, not to mention the horrendous game price itself. It's a shame that no-one designed this game to be reasonably priced. I would have loved to have it.

[@amethystwolf24572]

Esp since it could be recreated with ease at home!

[@thel33tpenguinftw40]

@@amethystwolf24572 yah, then recreate it. The rules are all online, my friend made it at home for like 15 bucks

[@georgedemirev]

This is the first review on this channel that feels like a promotional video... and honestly, I'm not sold at all. This is basically mafia with extra roles. And it's not like there aren't mafia variants where every player gets a role with a night action, or with rule modifiers that give the storyteller more discretion. They mention several times that it is totally not like mafia, but fail to convincingly explain why. Overall I don't see how buying this game is justified, considering its competition is a playing cards deck + internet connection to dig up the extra roles.

[@cloyphishs1049]

I have been playing this game and storytelling for just over a year now. I think it’s totally understandable to think that this is like mafia or werewolf because that’s the overall view of social deduction games. It is in fact not, and it’s actually quite hard to understand it without playing it: Some key points: 1. Everyone has an important unique role 2. There is no player elimination 3. Players have the opportunity enter after a game starts and leave before the game ends 4. The dynamic storyteller role means that there’s a lot of scope for influence, and it’s not robotic at all requiring real time decisions which will impact the course of the game 5. The replayability is very high, with no two games ever the same and lots of strategy involved. It is 100% true that the experience doesn’t end at the end of the game - you just keep talking about how things could have played out another way, or talk about strategies and what happened in the game, and even reference past games where something incredible happened with the same characters. While it does seem like a promotional video, it seems so because it’s so hard to conceptualise when thinking inside the realm of werewolf, mafia or Avalon. It is very different, but it’s the sort of thing which needs to be played to fully understand it , and I think the guys here did their best to explain the experience without going into the nitty gritty

[@brancewilliams7272]

@@cloyphishs1049 It screems promotional video! And everyone that has ever played this game in the past apparently was informed about this videos existence. They're all collectively acknowledging the opposing views and attempting to explain why it so much better than Mafia/Werewolf. I'll stick to the version that my extended family (20+) loves to play when we're all together.... Mafia I can't wait until SUSD include Mafia in the video series of card games that don't suck!

[@posadistpossum]

@@brancewilliams7272 "Everyone who has played this game insists it's so much better than Werewolf and keeps going on about how much fun it is! Probably a conspiracy"

[@StyxTBuferd]

That's the impression I got as well, especially from the "you wont criticize this game if you love the hobby" line, as if this game will be the only one to ever exist with a Storyteller mechanism/role. It's literally a sales pitch- "this is your only chance, so BUY NOW". They failed to explain why the felt box needs to be a felt box instead of a marker and board, why the game shown couldn't just be a deluxe version, why the game is truly different from Mafia/Werewolf enough to convince the majority of us who really despise those games to ever play something this similar to them. Really it wasn't a review at all, and in fact had they done a more nuanced critique of the price, of the overindulgence of the box and its variety (who needs variety if you don't like the game after 1 play?) then I would've been more inclined to at least throw a buck or two in to see it succeed, but I cannot justify purchasing a game I will maybe play once a year if I'm lucky for $100, especially one that I think I might hate.

[@amethystwolf24572]

@@posadistpossum Except none of them are able to articulate it! Maybe, just maybe, vaguely insisting that it is so different and so special and so amazing without being able to really explain why isn't very helpful.

[@AaronDew]

I like the game itself, but I hate the art, the graphic design, the giant player box, and the big player sheets with the tiny text. While it feels like they spent a lot of time developing the game itself, they didn’t do near enough evolving the components that make up a game. At least not to justify a $100 Kickstarter.

[@eamonnoflaherty2]

Hopefully the new version will address that. It's never been an issue for me personally, as so much of the game is interacting with others.

[@benji-menji]

@@eamonnoflaherty2 Oh your problems will be addressed. Just look through their updates on their kickstarter.

[@corrado4679]

Am I the only one a little uncomfortable with SUSD doing a full review of a game not only not yet available in retail, but currently on Kickstarter? Did Quinn say that they playtested the game?

[@shutupandsitdown]

We talked a bit about our decision to do this in donor newsletter #33, if you donate to us! In short, we made an exception to our policy of not reviewing Kickstarter games because we felt that we'd found something truly special with this game, and wanted to ensure the crowdfunding didn't fail because we felt the hobby would be poorer for it.

[@corrado4679]

@@shutupandsitdown Sorry, I just realized that for reasons I don't know I stopped reading the newsletter #33 at Matt thoughts of Tramways... Thank you for the reply. I understand your point. Yet, I retain some doubts "promoting" what it seems to be the first Kickstarter of a new gaming company, with some unique production challenges relating to the one-of-a-kind Grimoire.

[@amethystwolf24572]

@@corrado4679 That also seems to be unbelievably overpriced. I'm sorry, but felt really isn't that expensive, and adhering it to the box is as simple as applying the right glue. I get that things change as the scale of production increases, but the fact is we live in the computer age. It seems like an app would make for a much better aid than this box does, and would likely reduce the price of the game to a more standard $40ish dollars, if not less. My guess is the company was afraid people wouldn't buy a game with nothing but some tokens and player aids. But I think the people willing to pay this much for so little will be even less.

[@mikeprice6419]

@@amethystwolf24572 I'd much prefer to have this game for $79 than the latest mini-tastic thing from CMON. To each his own.

[@Marscow]

@@shutupandsitdown Don't you think it's a bit strange to outwardly say you did this video in part to sell the Kickstarter? That isn't really your job as a reviewer and it's part of the reason this video is leaving some people feeling icky. It's great if you love the game, but I'm not sure we want you to sell it to us. We want an honest review that lets us come to our own conclusion.

[@nathanglover8938]

I see a few people in the comments questioning the claim that you can play after you’re dead. As someone who has played a fair bit of this game, you absolutely can meaningfully play all the way through, alive or dead. In fact, sometimes you gain more credibility from dying in a certain way (eg if you die at night early on, you must be good, because the demon wouldn’t target one of their minions! Unless.... you are actually evil, and the demon just wants us to think you’re good!?) I can’t stand werewolf because of the “die and you’re out” mechanic, but I can categorically say that’s not the case in this game. I’ve always been invested in the games I’ve played, right up to the final outcome, and I’ve always been dying to find out what’s actually happened and what’s been a lie.

[@johna6108]

A very entertaining review/infomercial ("if you love this hobby..." remind anyone of a sales pitch), but despite trying to go out of your way to talk about how different it is from other social games and the problems it entails, I am still far from convinced of: - People can't just yell over the top of people. The fact you have a custom card to discourage this with new players means that it has definitely been a problem. - Being eliminated early is any fun. The fact that you get one more vote and also getting a random card may mitigate this means that it is still a problem if you don't get these cards. - The price tag. Considering how much you put down other games for the price vs experience, this is the very essence of overproduced for what it is. - The role of storyteller is any fun. It is just a catch-up mechanic which, while good, hardly makes sitting out the game fun. I think with the right group and commitment (and someone willing to get experienced being a storyteller) combined with the right conditions (role combination, elimination order, etc.) it may be amazing. Otherwise it just looks like a moderated Ultimate Werewolf.

[@amethystwolf24572]

So, I agree that this game looks horribly overpriced for what it is, etc. But I'm not sure you are understanding the Storyteller role from your comment. It isn't a catch-up mechanic exclusively - there seems to be a lot more to it than that.

[@johna6108]

​@@amethystwolf24572 There is more to it and it may be a simplification but allot of the rules and managing seem to revolve around this goal.

[@StyxTBuferd]

Another issue I have with the storyteller role here is that it makes wins less satisfying and losses more frustrating. Hard to know how much of an affect you had on the outcome if all you did was act exactly how the storyteller thought you would, like an actor in a play. If all he did was engineer the ending for you, then how can you take pride in a win? And similarly how can you handle a loss as a learning experience if you were engineered to lose? It just seems like a really terrible experience unless you're the storyteller. Quinns has even addressed this in one of his side videos about what makes new board games great- one of them being player agency and knowing when it's "your fault". BoTC seems to break that entirely.

[@LiliumPetal]

I agree with the price problem. It seems more like you're buying an "idea" or concept for a game rather than the actual components. And some of the component choices are just poorly thought out in creating an affordable experience. Like felt.

[@ShockedLogic]

Im hoping there might be, or at some point be, a digital edition of this. Especially with the ongoing pandemic. But getting a bunch of discord friends together over a call and playing this sounds absolutely fantastic.

[@benji-menji]

Check update #40 on their kickstarter page.

[@smallmailman3992]

if you dont know already, town of salem can act as a great supplement.

[@MrPolecat]

Paul looks and sounds really different now, but I'm glad he's back!

[@Shot007]

I knew from day one I could never get this: just don't have that many people to play on a consistent basis to justify a Social deduction game with 90+ roles. It certainly appears to be a great evolution of werewolf/mafia. I also don't think it's fair to say that people should NOT make the argument that it is overpriced - if you "care" about this hobby. And its not just 79 bucks, as a KS you also have to include the Shipping cost. Here in Canada it is $99 USD - the equivalent of $130 Canadian (that's Gloomhaven territory). Also the theme seems quite overplayed. But great review and I am glad you guys enjoyed it thoroughly (and that Quinns has a new favourite game), I ALWAYS look forward to your reviews on Friday.

[@AwfulPlayerVids]

I think this is a case of a really good version of a very niche genre that Quinn's happens to love. Two rooms and a boom is one of his favorite games as I recall. The average person doesn't game with 8+ people because so few games support that amount. Also, social deduction is not a genre that everyone enjoys. I realize there was never a guarantee of objective criticism, but this seems to be a hype piece for a personal favorite. So this is a overblown expensive version of an activity for large groups of people that have to all like the genre. Definitely not something every gamer needs in their collection. But hey, maybe now it will make its stretch goals, right?

[@Bodyknock]

Awful Player To be fair, even though not everybody has access to a large group and not everybody is into social deduction games, this game does appear to be an excellent game in that large group social deduction genre. In particular the idea that the moderator is actually an active participant versus an impartial referee is terrific. It allows for things like a character who is the Drunk who firmly believes they are something else the entire game but in fact is just being told nonsense by the moderator to mess with them. Personally I don’t get to play with large groups very often, but I did order this game based on the rules, roles and videos I’ve seen on it. To me it’s a game that even if I don’t play it very often it still gives me enjoyment simply perusing it and having it to show to friends. Obviously if I can play it more frequently that I expect that’s even better, but as a really interesting piece to add to my game library it looks to be solidly in the camp of a no brainer for me.

[@AwfulPlayerVids]

It seems to be a fine version of what it is. It looks like they took all the best ideas from other games of this kind and put them together in a meaningful and thought out package. However, it is still niche in that it needs a large group of people who want to play a social deduction game. It's sort of like spending a lot of money on top of the line snow skiing gear if you live a thousand miles from the nearest ski slope. Maybe you have a use for it, maybe you will make a few ski trips. You might also almost never use it. The cost is high in the realm of social deduction games, but $100 could be pocket change to some people, so that may not be an issue. You could get Two Rooms and a Boom, Ultimate Werewolf (or one night), and Resistance for less than the price of this one title. Maybe this one trumps all those for you, I'm just putting it in perspective. I wasn't doubting the quality of the game, just saying they might have been letting their own bias color the recommendation. Sure they presented a few caveats to the recommendation, but then quickly went back to saying it's not that much for what you get and it's a one of kind experience you shouldn't miss. In the grand scheme of things, I think we can look past one review that they broke their own "rules" for and had a bit of fanboyism in it. Let's just not act like this is par for the course.

[@StyxTBuferd]

"I also don't think it's fair to say that people should NOT make the argument that it is overpriced - if you "care" about this hobby." 1000 times this. This bothered me so much more than anything in any SUSD review I've ever watched. If a game idea is good, it will thrive even if the game it originates in doesn't- it's not right to tell people that this is their one and only chance at a unique experience when it may not even be an experience they want, especially if that experience can be distilled down later on into cheaper or smaller games.

[@OMGLX]

@@StyxTBuferd I don't think that was the intended message. How I understood it was that if you are a staunch supporter of the hobby, you will likely find the contents of the box have a value greater then the cost associated, because you are perhaps more likely to appreciate all that it contains and is attempting to do. NOT that the argument that it is overpriced is invalid, but that he believes it overcomes that detraction. I mean, it's PART OF the section that moments before says expressly "wow, this costs a lot compared to other games of its type". Not to invalidate your own criticism, but all the SUSD reviews I've seen over the years have been nothing short of VERY accepting and vocal of potential issues regarding accessibility, cost, quality, inclusion, and so on. I truly don't think Quinns is saying if you don't appreciate BotCT, you're not a real fan of board games.

[@chadiushobby]

I feel like this is only Quintin's favorite game because he is, and I think he's even admitted to this, an Alpha gamer. Being the storyteller for this fulfills that Alpha Gamer itch.

[@jeremyspear5064]

You might be right, and he maybe should have disclosed that in the video. Maybe in a devoted segment describing the unique experience of being the storyteller, and the fun and joy he got from controlling the flow of the game? He could have compared it to other games he's run in the past, for example. Missed opportunity.

[@blade6321]

I understand the message you're putting across but..."Alpha gamer" is such a cringeworthy term!

[@funkoxen]

if that is the case then what is wrong with playing dungeons and dragons?

[@amethystwolf24572]

@@funkoxen D&D is a much bigger investment upfront, in terms of time and brain power...

[@EclecticMystic]

But if this is his "favorite board game" and it's something bordering on an RPG, maybe it's time Quinns bites the bullet and plays some D&D.

[@olanordmann548]

The first video from you guys i have watched! A beautiful combination of information, personal experiences and humor! Love it, keep it up!

[@RayKaladis]

I liked the video before it reached 21:00 where the "talk over new players" bit was. I wish i could like the video a second time just from that. XD

[@Truffles222]

Is this a review or advertisement? I'm a massive fan of what the guys do at SUSD but not sure about this...

[@wedgeex]

I believe from what they've said here and in other media that they just really enjoy the game.

[@nocturnalfirebreather7863]

In the top 136 game he mentions he doesnt like the game. I was thinking if this is an April fools thing or something

[@dylanfowler70]

@@nocturnalfirebreather7863 He was being sarcastic in the 136 game video.

[@brygreen1527]

They just enjoy the game, try out a thrown together version you make and try it out and then tell me you aren’t super excited then

[@TheMrVengeance]

@@brygreen1527 - ..Look at what you just said. You can basically throw this game together for free, the rules for Werewolf/Mafia are all over the place. So are roles and events and house rules. This game really isn't any different. Meanwhile this game cost $100. And instead of addressing that, like they do with so many other expensive Kickstarter games, they praise this as "best game ever".

[@francescotamburini5790]

There have never been words uttered by this channel more true than “you could make many arguments against buying this game, but if you love this hobby you are not going to care about them”. I own a copy of this game and every session is such a treat.

[@leeprice133]

I love this hobby and loathe this game. It was a stupid statement that felt out of character at the time this video was released and hasn't got less so with time.

[@francescotamburini5790]

@@leeprice133nobody forces you to play it.

[@from02hero100]

I don't really get it. Most of these ideas were used in The Werewolves of Miller's Hollow: The Pact. They even have day time powers and special events. Maybe the story teller has an easier job component-wise in this one but other than that I fail to see the novelty this brings...

[@Ludician]

I adore social deduction/deception games... but my plays of Blood on the Clocktower left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Between the noise created by an overwhelming number of roles all trying to speak their conflicting truths at once, the utter unreliability of most role's information, and the high chance that information is being actively tampered with or destroyed by some player abilities or even the Moderator, it felt like there was no opportunity for any meaningful deduction to be had in this social deduction game. Rather, each round just felt like riding a cascade of chaos where no logical foundations could be built.

[@StyxTBuferd]

This is the kind of impression I got watching the review and reading what people had to say about it (even positively). It looks so chaotic and so intimidating in scale that people like me who do not actively seek out social deduction games with big groups- people who are more introverted or calculated in their approach- may just not have anything here to sink their teeth into and may actively despise the game for being just too much to be asked to throw themselves into. My whole group is similar in that respect, and we enjoy the lighter social deduction games a lot, ones where you can really be clever and even perfectly solve the puzzle on occasion, but BoTC definitely looks like the kind of game for alpha gamers and extroverts who can dive headfirst into and just ride the chaos. I don't know, I'd still love to try this game at least once, but I'm definitely not backing it.

[@paulrumohr]

This really looks way too busy and overproduced.

[@mikaela4912]

I'm really sorry to had a bad experience and felt that there was no deduction. I've had many MANY games where I've been the one to personally piece it together and many many others where I've seen it come together. You truly can put it together, I do understand at the start it is very overwhelming though

[@eamonnoflaherty2]

I remember being pretty overwhelmed yeah, and it is complex and chaotic at times, but it's not utter chaos. Sorry to hear you didn't have a fun time Andor :(

[@mrmaybe79]

Any social deduction game like Werewolf or The Villagers can get out of hand if the moderator doesnt keep the flow going. Gamers can get into and endless conversation of theories if a moderator let's them go on and on. Sounds like that's what you experienced.

[@marquisofmanatee]

✨😃🌙 If you talk over new players, you may die in the night 🌙😃✨

[@JorWat25]

The longer time goes on, the funnier it gets that this "best game ever" still isn't out.

[@deathgodfire]

True, supposedly the pre-orders will be sent out by April 2022 Rn I'm having great fun playing it digitally while i wait lol

[@kooliooolio]

you can play it online though

[@randomjunk1977]

I remember this review and thinking the game looked fun, but not worth buying for me because I would almost never have the 8+ needed for game. Also $100+ seemed WAY too expensive for something that from a component standpoint shouldn't differ drastically from One Night Ultimate Werewolf. I did get to play it once at a convention where someone had a print and play copy and did quite enjoy it. Then I found out like a year ago that the Kickstarter still hadn't fulfilled. At that point it was like 2 years on. That is WILD for something that's so basic from a component standpoint.

[@aarcade6676]

@@randomjunk1977 I don't think you've seen the game... It's a pretty huge hefty box with a lot in it. And the felt tokens have been complex to produce.

[@aarcade6676]

@@randomjunk1977 (source: I live in Sydney and I go to fortnightly games hosted by the actual designers. It's incredibly fun, I'll never want to play werewolf again once my copy arrives.)

[@denzelpanther240]

so its STILL Just Werewolf with some of the Internets favourite Houserules you can get for free in hundreds of places

[@cloyphishs1049]

Have u played it?

[@NylePudding]

With the addition of the storyteller it seems like almost an entirely different game.

[@alanmak1985]

I almost throught it was an April fools joke

[@aenorist2431]

The storyteller is a houserule and basically integral part of a good game of werewolf. Amazing that this is news to anyone.

[@Antaiseito]

Well if it's that easy, then take your favorite houserules and start a kickstarter yourself?

[@Wishram321]

I'm having a hard time seeing how this is different than WW in any meaty way. When my friends and I play WW we are all given a power and given a townsperson/werewolf identity, and it seems like that's what this adds.

[@erfanashkan5925]

The gohst mechanics maybe? I don't get it too.

[@pauldavis2108]

Having played this it's the miss-information that makes this amazing. You can never be certain of anything. You or someone you trust might know something but it'll turn out you were poisoned that night or drunk the entire game. Another mechanic not covered in this reveiw was outsiders - a handfull of roles that you know there is only one of (varies based on player number) you'll catch people in lies because two different people secretly told you they were an outsider but then there is another role that adds 2 additional outsiders to the game so you're just never quite certain. Yes it's like warewolf but the roles are just so much better thought out. No one is ever just a plain vanilager.

[@nathanglover8938]

Having played this, I can confirm it’s massively different to werewolf. The fact that you can contribute the whole way through is huge. And the uncertainty provided by the storyteller makes things so hilarious and unpredictable. In lockdown I’ve been playing a ton on discord, and after a game I normally log back on over the following few days, as we’ll often be discussing the game way after it’s over.

[@TheBerlyDad]

Two years later and still haven’t received my copy…

[@dhruboisgood]

Have you received your copy?

[@TheBerlyDad]

@@dhruboisgood yeah I finally received it late last year.

[@stuboydcrosbie]

Never seen even close to this amount of dislikes on another SUSD video.. a really strange one I must admit, heavy on the infomercial vibes

[@Virolaxion]

What? All their positive videos are in this style. Highly produced with set ups and pay offs. They like making a little narrative from it, it's great.

[@dhirajpallin2572]

I have no doubt Quinns loves this game or that it's his favourite game. But he's irrationally apologist when talking about the price of the game. Although I'm surprised that would cause a significant number of thumbs downs.

[@kyur3813]

16:35: This moment of Quinns silently dancing in the middle of a blindfolded group of people while knowingly first looking directly into the camera and then around the group of unaware people is one of the best scenes SU&SD has ever put to film. :)

[@dexdres5419]

I like the new intern. Her delivery seems a bit too formal in comparison to everyone else. I'm sure that will change in time tho. Or it could be just her accent is making me think that because I'm American.

[@FritesAndAle]

It's because you're an American. She's not too formal.

[@KitSixty322]

You...have seen early reviews with Paul and Quinns?

[@drewu3881]

I have to say that her enthusiasm is viral. I'm notoriously bad at deception games ("We know you're the cylon. Just stop it.") but her delight in the idea of community and game as epic and building relationships with people she just met is enough to get me to want to try this game, even though it's outside my skillset. If the evil masterminds at SUSD HQ are deciding her fate, this mysterious villager votes to keep her.

[@dexdres5419]

@@marks6928 I agree that she is good

[@dexdres5419]

@@KitSixty322 That is fair, I do like her.

[@downtimegaming5655]

Always have to remember that especially with social deduction games the group you are playing with can be as important as the game. I don't doubt that SUSD had an incredible time, but they also have the ability to conjour 10+ willing friends who are funny and get along. My main group is 2 or 4/5 so instantly anything with a player count like this is out for us but I can see why they would like it so much with the way they were able to play it

[@diamondsky3787]

you can still play with 5 people as minimum but you would need to be REALLY good players for that.

[@madalex31]

Four years ago I watched this video and it never left my mind. Having to setup a halloween themed board game night for a large group I immediately thought of it. As if by fate, a shipping of copies just landed in Europe and I managed to get my hands on one. I can't wait to try it out!

[@kyraxx]

How did it go?

[@hewieedacat6375]

I am sure many people will disagree, but I miss the old susd days of raw, informal, rebellious , wacky and funny yet incredible helpful and interesting reviews. SUSD has definitely evolved over the years and change can be good, but the super polished production that is now regular, and the more formal, journalistic, scripted vibe is much less preferred for me. Feels more geek and sundry and less susd. I much preferred the two dudes with a camera discussing their favourite hobby and messing about and poking fun at themes thing they had going.

[@JohnBack]

Totally agree. In fact, this video seems almost commercial. They used to absolutely stomp on lack of value for money, and I question whether this game is even a board game tbh.

[@showmicr]

Very interesting set of opinions in this reply-set. I feel the old SUSD charm came from the awkward bits, the incredible and often unpredictable writing which added a lot of humor. Nowadays some of their jokes really fall flat for me and that surprises me since I used to watch their videos as much for humor as for the games themselves. I have read Paul was in charge of writing and his absence might have a lot to do with it. However this is just speculating. I respect SUSD and hope we see more of them, preferably as funny as the olden days.

[@hesy8049]

I´m calling BS on the statement that the components are absolutely needed for gameplay. If you want to know if the game is playable with less deluxe stuff, just wait for the release and ask someone who paid 100€ (incl shipping) if he will bring this huuuuge box with a lot of felt components to your smoky campfire. My best guess, he will find a way and turn up with a deck of cards, some printouts and a pen.

[@yayforjoel]

Yea, the components seem like a huge waste of money, space, and time. I played Werewolf (calling it "Mafia") for years with a few custom rules, a deck of playing cards, and no cost. 10-20 custom printed cards, a few sleeves, and a whiteboard would easily replicate this game. The components don't really add anything to the game that I can see. The candles did more for the atmosphere than the components did.

[@CoasterMagicX2]

Here's my take from moderating many werewolf games. This would be a very hard task without these tokens. Imagine getting a game that is great... but nobody could moderate. That KILLS the game, so they went over board with the components just to make it so that you could 100% moderate. if you are experienced you could probably play without the whole felt and such, and with a piece of paper/ pen like you said, but you need practice with the expensive things to do that.

[@juliano1768]

@@yayforjoel We've been getting a few comments from people who have never played it along the lines of "I can't see how is it different to Werewolf. Therefore, none of the components are necessary." but if you look at the comments of people who have played it, they mostly say "It is quite different to (basic) Werewolf, and the Story Teller needs help running it, which the tokens and grimoire provide."

[@juliano1768]

@Hesy, that's is a weird demand. There are a lot of board games that I love that I would never take to a campfire. Can we agree it isn't a game for playing around a campfire game, and move on?

[@testnameone806]

Having played it, you need the components, not all for a single game as there are four different character sits, but you would need the majority. Not only do they help keep track of the game state, they also allow for the Story Teller o issue instructions silently, some of the components are prompt cards to show to a player.

[@Eddytor]

I mean the game seems fun and pretty good, but I don't really get why you guys are praising it so much. Its seems like yet another werewolf variant, maybe better than most other but still nothing not seen before.. Also the price. 80$ for a game that have no board, figurines etc ? Its definitely not cheap, especially when most werewolf variant cost less than 20$. To be honest, at first i thought Kylie was part of the tea that made the game and was thinking that you were being every generous because of that.

[@cloyphishs1049]

You actually don’t realised how flawed and unplayable werewolf is until you play Blood on the Clocktower. This is not a variant, it’s next level social deduction where everyone is involved 100% of the time

[@Eddytor]

Cloyphish S okay. That’s good to hear. Personally i don’t really like werewolf, i prefer other more different games like Avalon, so I do realize how « unplayable » it is. I just did not see how this one fixed the werewolf genre. If i get a chance i’ll definitely give it a try, but i dont wanna spent $80 in it at the moment.

[@Eddytor]

Mark Sosbe Damn mandella effect !

[@cloyphishs1049]

Mark Sosbe my apologies - I should justify what I mean by “unplayable”. Personally, I really enjoyed werewolf. After playing this, I can’t enjoy werewolf at all.

[@albertjones3867]

@@cloyphishs1049 Not gonna lie, you sound like you have been paid off. Warewolf is a pretty solid game and if you have issues with the basic rules then you can find dozens of rules variants (most of which are free including my favorite: secret hitler). BotC adds very little to werewolf that has not been done before, and for over $100 (if you include shipping) I must admit it I fail to believe that it is worth it.

[@EngMadison]

I don't think this is a good review at all. What makes SUSD such a great resource is their ability to dive into a game giving pros and cons, describing the experience, and offering some advice as to why you may or may not like the game. This was a sales pitch. I'm glad they liked the game so much, but they did not give this the same attention they give every other game. I don't want to be told I cant question a games price, or that i must buy this game because 'you may never see another game like this again.' Please don't threaten me. The last time they told me i wasn't allowed to question a games rules was in Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective...I ended up hating that game for its inaccuracies (which they specifically told me "you cant get mad at"...yes i can). This game certainly has it's limitations i'm sure....I wish they would have explored that more. Otherwise i guess that's just it for boardgames, we found the perfect one...

[@beep8771]

Rather should have gone for human punishment. Rounds are quicker and more versatile, doesn't need a GM, dying isn't a problem due to short games and reviving mechanics and it's motherf***ing SciFi. Edit: and it's way cheaper, even in deluxe edition. Artwork is really beautiful, too.

[@TheAush22]

As an individual that really dislikes social deduction games because I’m terrible at lying and get VERY anxious doing so, I’m still interested at least in the moderator role. Kind of wish they would have addressed my ilk, but that may be hard when the entire SUSD team likes social deduction games!

[@billlynch3704]

SUSD has strong feelings and they're not afraid to put them out there. I fully believe they LOVE this game. That said, the price seems ABSURD to me. I played this once at a convention and it was a really cool experience. The roles do make you feel unique and force you into interactions and trusting people. I'd love to try it again, and maybe will at some point, but there's no way I can justify spending that much on a big group game that won't be hitting the table super often.

[@dhirajpallin2572]

Totally agree, it's about $130 to $140 USD. That's utterly ridiculous. I was scratching my head when Quinns was comparing it to Gloomhaven, because honestly it's just some circular tokens, some laminated reference sheets and a felt lined cardboard box. Compared with Gloomhaven's 1000s? of components. Most games with this few components would be like $40. Either the designers didn't shop around enough for cheap manufacturers or they're just plain profiteering.

[@sockinvaders]

​@dhirajpallin2572 I would guess the reason is because its not like a game for 2-4 players that could find its way on to a shelf in every home. A game requiring this many people is going to be very niche. At the same time though, for people that want it, it'll be worth every penny. If a group of 14 paid just 10 bucks each, it's paid for. Or a one time fee of 5 bucks and over time it'll be covered. Honestly the game is so good, it doesn't even seem that expensive any more. Even though at first it seemed quite shocking.

[@MozilloGames]

I've had my eye on Blood on the Clocktower since you mentioned it in a podcast and I desperately want to get it, but I feel like I only have like... 5 friends I see regularly, and I live with 3 of them! All of these interesting deduction games (and this one is truly thigh rubbingly good) always get me excited for board games, and also friends I don't have.

[@eamonnoflaherty2]

I mean you can play with 5- it'll give you a fine introduction to it. My hope for Backers will be they'll experience what w have in Sydney, and the games appeal will bring people in and inspire them to stay. It did for me :)

[@dexdouglas]

So glad I finally got to play this. All my friends and I enjoyed the heck out of it! Thanks for the video so many years ago. It got me to back it and I’m so happy I did.

[@pedro15305]

You should do a livestream playthrough of this game!

[@bartk7870]

pedro15305 Let’s do this !!!

[@crocosnz3322]

Not sure how that'd work as all the constant conversations and side-bars for this type of game.

[@pedro15305]

@@crocosnz3322 Yeah, it would be hard to work out. I posted this comment before finishing the video, lol. I would like to see it, but I understand that it is probably not possible.

[@mister_scott]

Agreed that I would love to see a play through, though it would be complex. But then again, you live streamed TI and had a separate solo cam room. Perhaps a designated room for sidebars with devoted cam setup might make that work. Since you’d edit such a video, pauses in gameplay as the Storyteller meets privately etc. would be eliminated for viewers at least. Perhaps a minimum sized player group would aid production of a play through too? I hope SUSD could work this out. Great game review, in any case, and you’ve got me looking into the KS. I enjoyed Imptern Kylie’s addition, too.

[@TheMunchkin9]

I could almost see this work how they do reality tv shows (I hate those shows but this might be the right format). So you film as much random footage as possible and then you add interview sections in the middle to try and capture what someone was thinking at that particular moment.

[@BruceRose]

Lol, it's still in production.

[@benji-menji]

True, but have you seen the previews of the final designs?

[@BruceRose]

@@benji-menji yes. But I'm convinced that we will still be talking about how cool it's gonna be one year from now.

[@benji-menji]

@@BruceRose ._.

[@Esprix]

New tentative release date is May 2022. Maybe. Don't hold your breath.

[@macayne]

Reminds me of the board game version of Town of Salem... without the risk of Data Breaches. Love it.

[@eamonnoflaherty2]

Yeah it is in a lot of ways; that's actually how I found my way to BOTC. I was playing a quite early version of Salem and really liked it, and got into the genre. I was looking for a Battlestar Gallactica game and happily a group in my local area had this wonderful game brewing :)

[@macayne]

@@eamonnoflaherty2 Yeah, I'm excited to try it out. I always felt like Salem would do real well as a board game. And this seems to fix the werewolf issue of being a narrator.

[@yayforjoel]

That was my first thought as well, of course we've been using a good portion of these variants to Werewolf (we call it "Mafia") for years. I don't see the components really adding anything to the game. Although I might try it with candles next time...

[@scamandrian1]

I'm a huge, huge fan of your channel, but this time, sorry guys, I had to give a thumb down :( You broke so many your rules that are important to me - and by doing this, you broke my heart: - No kickstarter reviews (for good reasons) - price tag should be important! I remember reviews where you turned down good games for being expensive. This one is incredibly costly: 80$ for a Mafia/werewolf clone? Do you know that Mafia is basically free? - Any review should be balanced - there must have been at least one player who didn't like it as much as Quin did. Where was his/her voice? - Common guys: player count is ridiculous! "Sweet spot is 8-13 players"? How often do you think I am going to play that? - Social deduction games aren't for anyone/any group. Why didn't you say anything about that, like what it is to play it with a bunch of introverts...? The complete "review" felt like an ad. Also, I felt insulted by the comment "If you really care about the hobby... [then the price should be fine to you]". I love the hobby, but I still have to pay for rent and food.

[@cloyphishs1049]

To be fair, it does seem like 3,340 backers think differently. I guess it’s not for everyone

[@cthulwho8197]

3,769 people backed One Night Ultimate Alien 4,839 people backed One Night Ultimate Vampire 9,248 people backed The Worlds Best Travel Pants with 15 Features! 😁

[@sanemalk9957]

You didn't add the full context in regards to player count. "Sweet spot is about 8-13 players. So if you can't assemble a group of that size, then this isn't the game for you." That's a pretty straight forward answer to your question on how often you think you will play this game, isn't it?

[@scamandrian1]

@@cloyphishs1049 To be more clear: I'm not commenting on the quality of the game, I'm complaining about the quality of the review that I believe to be poor judged by SUSD's standards.

[@cloyphishs1049]

scamandrian1 maybe they enjoyed the game so much that objectivity comes across as subjectivity.

[@sordcooper2]

this entire review has only stated one mechanical difference that makes this game different from werewolf or mafia. It sounds like this game is just meat-space Town of Salem with rule 0 for the storyteller, and a bunch of props.

[@denzelpanther240]

its Just Werewolf with some Houserules you find all Over the web. Same is ToS

[@davidiswhat]

Yea, I thought there would be more comments about Town of Salem

[@thel33tpenguinftw40]

This is probably the most fun board game I've ever played He's not lying when he says it's worth it, it is "werewolf with some house rules" but all those house rules interact with eachother super well and it comes together perfectly.

[@brianhill3707]

I have played werewolf, I have played BotC. There is a massive difference. While playing werewolf, most of the town are villagers with no power. That makes it extremely frustrating to watch as everyone is picked off around you and all you can do is wait your turn. BotC has unique roles for each player, and a unique role for the storyteller. I have played TOS as well, and while it is closer to BotC than werewolf, there is no storyteller, different (although good in their own way) roles, and when you die you reveal your role. I understand it doesn’t seem worth the price, but that doesn’t devalue the quality of the game

[@FatedHandJonathon]

@@brianhill3707 if the majority of your players in a game of Mafia are vanilla villagers, you're doing it wrong. That's how the game was originally conceived back in the 80s, but it's moved on since then. The people decrying the lack of novelty are right. So far, I've seen a total of three roles I haven't actually played with before (and I suspect that says more about my experience than the game), the ghost rules, and the rules for private conversations (which are actually fairly common in online play, but it is admittedly unusual to see it in a face-to-face game). Those are some neat innovations, but they aren't $95 worth of neat.

[@Yetike]

As of now it is still in pre-production with no end in sight... a used werewolf I got was great fun for 10 euros.

[@Osborne4Life]

Even if this wasn't just some unique variant of Werewolf (because let's be honest, it is) $95+ for that little amount of components is a bit iffy.

[@eamonnoflaherty2]

I'm not sure- a difference by degree but at some point it just becomes a very significant difference. I feel good about getting a copy because of the thought involved in making what is a great game, and the hours and hours I know I will enjoy of it. I do think making an educated purchase is best, so hopefully a Grimoire will make it's way near to you, and you'll hear the inevitable call for more players :) Presumably with the success of the Kickstarter thus far the fulfillment section will go smoothly and you'll get a chance to try it before considering a retail version.

[@denzelpanther240]

everything mentioned in the Video i have seen in Werewolf games years ago . people are modifying the Game and adding roles all the time

[@Virolaxion]

They did a five minute explanation as to why it isn't just as variant of werewolf. It seems most of the comment section will need to play it before they're convinced otherwise!

[@TheMrVengeance]

@@Virolaxion - The thing is, that explanation *didn't* explain how it's different than werewolf. This game is Werewolf: The Pact with a couple of the most common/popular house rules. "The Pact" is the set of base Werewolf with it's three expansions that add roles and events and such; and it's $40. Explain the $60 difference between that game and how 'different' BotC is?

[@brianhill3707]

TheMrVengeance I took the time to research Werewolf: the pact and I will note the key differences: 1. In The Pact, roles are revealed after death 2. The Pact has a very standard role list. It is very similar to typical werewolf’s, while BotC has a very unique role list. There are also some villagers that literally have no power. 3. BotC has the poisoned/drunk feature, meaning roles can have their abilities misfire. 4. BotC has minions that assist the demon with special abilities. 5. The storyteller in BotC isn’t just a robotic moderator, he gets to make interesting role combinations. 6. You can talk and vote once past death in BotC 7. BotC gives the demon a unique power, while the powers of the werewolves in The Pact are basic. I implore you to look up the role “Vortox” in BotC and tell me with a straight face that they are the same game. Despite the fact that I only named 7 differences, those differences are incredibly important in making BotC the best social deduction game that has ever been, in my opinion. I think one major problem with people looking at BotC is that they see the price and blow their expectations out of proportion. I will be the first one to tell you that it is completely overpriced, but that doesn’t mean the game is just some knockoff. I play it on the unofficial discord for free, which solves the problem of th unreasonable price and the problem with getting enough people together to play.

[@zenpvnk]

Looks cool, but yeah, stupid overpriced, even before whatever shipping will be on that huge box. Will wait for retail with hopefully a Codenames sized box and price.

[@dhirajpallin2572]

The retail version is way more expensive

[@JohnGottschalk]

I don't buy it, just sounds like a werewolf hack that might work reasonably well

[@diamondpenny]

The new intern is really good, seems like a natural.

[@The_Real_Shakespeare]

are we not going to talk about the dude mastering the blade in the background?

[@guseckstein3559]

More importantly the dog mastering the treat next to him

[@PTPerdix]

He's practicing the ancient martial art of colonial Britons: Chai Tea

[@ashesanddiamonds2692]

In Brighton it is normal to see a guy in a manbun practising slo-motion kendo accompanied by a Siberian husky down the park. Its just that kind of place, like San Francisco.

[@alfgwahigain5544]

Ha! I was thinking the same thing. Even if I had a giant sword (sighs wistfully) I'm far too self conscious to think to myself "You know, I need to take this down to the park and work on my moves".

[@GacMan47]

Having playing Werewolf for years, I am genuinely done with games like Werewolf. People take the game way too seriously and it sucks. It shows the true nature of people and I just can't do that anymore. These games are also very bad for people with high anxiety. There was a game were people made someone cry. That's when I knew when I was done with these games.

[@costlyblood1927]

Check out The TTRPG Safety Toolkit! It's a great resource for people with anxiety who play TTRPGs to make sure no-one gets too intense during a game, and give people a way to opt out if they start getting stressed. The tools don't censor games, just give people more control over the stressful situations sometimes provoked by games.

[@chrisgesell8752]

Hello Quinns, We are going to try this game with a group that contains "Non Gamers". I mentioned Quinn's loves this game to a friend. She told me to invite you, not realizing you are my 'celebrity friend' and I only almost touched your shirt at SHUX. She thought if i asked nicely you might come?? Just asking as she insisted I asked. We are going to try it online, so we dont have to buy you an airline ticket.

[@chrisgesell8752]

We are playing again. I told my friend you sent your regards. I didnt want to crush her gentle spirit with disappointment.

[@lauraferran4360]

Off topic from the game (which looks great but I can't justify buying right now) - I'm so so so pleased to see a female presence on SUSD. And kudos to you for giving Kylie a starring part in this review - what a way to do an internship! Looking forward to more

[@fbibarbie]

Why?

[@SirErnestBob]

I care more that she did a great job, over the fact that she was a female or male.

[@joelface]

@@SirErnestBob Maybe you don't care, and that's okay, but for women who are into board gaming, don't you think it would be a good feeling to see better representation in the game review space? It's undeniable that men and women experience the world differently, because the world treats men and women differently. It's a different experience, and while there are many other variables at play, it makes sense that people would seek out the opinions of people who have some shared experiences. Personally, I think we ALL benefit from having better representation of race, gender, etc. in all sides of table top games (creation, reviewing, playing). So, I too, am very excited about Kylie's starring point in the review, both because she's a woman AND because she did a great job. :P

[@thealpacawhisperer7569]

Who did Quinn sell his soul to for this flat AND enough time for boardgame reviews?

[@drbasseri]

Viewers

[@amethystwolf24572]

...pretty certain this is how he makes a living...

[@gregs_on_tracks]

He's actually selling your soul.

[@alfgwahigain5544]

I want to live there.

[@coreymorse1347]

Very infomercial vibe.

[@charliecleveland9053]

I'm doing the same as y'all! Just got my copy after *years* and am ready to bring it to our team retreat next week. Yep, the developers of Subnautica will all be playing this and killing each other, even though we're supes non-violent. I absolutely cannot wait to try this masterpiece.

[@nikaatresta3317]

"Because I'm as pompous as a human tuba..." I don't think I've ever laughed harder at a review

[@sasy707]

MY COPY FINALLY ARRIVED AFTER 3 YEARS I CAN'T WAIT TO PLAY

[@evanberge3476]

I couldn't see a single mention of Two Rooms and a Boom anywhere in the comments and was surprised it didn't get a shout out in this video- maybe it's just because my old board game club adores that game and plays it constantly but I feel like it solves a lot of the genre problems of "Mafia-likes" while this one tries to just update the genre. 2R1B just takes out player elimination, and gives players tools to establish trust (and also without having to give away too much if you're worried about spies or eavesdroppers!) At a fraction of the price (when in stock at least) and carbon footprint I think it needs mention in any conversation about "Werefia-likes." THAT SAID, the idea of a subjective moderator that has the blessing to bend rules is VERY interesting and I hope more games will tinker with the ideas of more... Flexible rule interpretations. EDIT: I guess bending the rules isn't necessarily you're actually supposed to do as a Storyteller, and also to be fair I have seen some references to my darling 2R1B, and it's SUSD's job to review new games, not just promote old ones they've already promoted.

[@evanberge3476]

@@davidmay6609 In the words of Jeff Goldblum: "there it is." That one is on me.

[@seraphonica]

Really glad to see you focusing on the host here - with all the talk and not much elucidation, I was wondering how much of the success I've heard tell was due to a good game and how much was due to a solidly trained corps of hosts - should be interesting to see if they can teach anyone to host to this level.

[@davidstefano2709]

Hi Sera, as someone who is part of the storytelling corps of play testers, I can tell you that Storytelling can be taught to basically anyone. I learned by watching over the shoulder of a more experienced person maybe twice, then having them watch over my shoulder once, and then I was off. One of the great things about this game is its complexity - and what that does is it lets the Storyteller make mistakes as they're learning that don't ruin the experience for everyone else. So is it one or the other? It's probably both, to some extent. But I'm definitely in the "good game" camp.

[@capuchinosofia4771]

@@davidstefano2709 hello David, do you have any tips for the host/storyteller?

[@CreepsBme]

When i bought this game i thought i get to play it the 1 time for my birthday. But no within 2 month i had played 20+ games across several nights. Every single person ive played could not get enough

[@michaelwilliams8387]

The inclusion of additional Yorkshireness on SU&SD is much appreciated. 10/10 more Kylie

[@JoeRobson]

I was having trouble placing Kylie’s accent! I’ve never heard “vote” and “folk” pronounced “vert” and “ferk”. Not West Yorkshire then, where do you think?

[@michaelkaram467]

Been playing the game almost nightly over discord and it has been awesome biggest group we have had was 6 so the games should not go on for long and the first few games were like that not lasting more than 15 minutes but now each game of 5-6 lasts at least an hour and a half and the game is one of the best ive played and I always enjoy being a character or even the storyteller

[@joelface]

14:49 -- I see Dice Throne there! I'm SO crossing my fingers that you guys will review this game as it's probably my FAVOURITE GAME OF ALL TIME! (S1+S2 as they're really the same game in my mind)

[@anthonyhalloway428]

I just got my retail copy and, having run through everything myself, feel nothing but excitement at finally getting people together to play it. All of the little tweaks and touches to the rules make this feel much more like a *game* than Werewolf, which I already thoroughly love, where bluffing and misinformation play a much larger role. So happy to finally have it in my hands. It definitely feels worth the wait.

[@hazelstockwell5907]

Cool video, I like how you set the mood with he candles! Thumbs up to mohawk guy serving us Chester Bennington in the Papercut video

[@OGianmarcO]

that is my concern...the 8-13 players to enjoy the game. Unfortunately I can rarely assemble a group larger than 6...considering the price, I might need to skip this for the moment...

[@alfgwahigain5544]

I'm envious of the fact that Quinn has a group that large to commit to this game regularly. That would be magical.

[@crashstarr6531]

My copy finally came this week, I'm back trying to remember what rhe heck I bought 3 years ago

[@francescotamburini5790]

I think Quinn hit it in the head when he compared the game to Gloomhaven. That was also too big, very expensive and not friendly to beginner players, but it was one of the best games ever. And now there’s a cheaper version on the market.

[@benji-menji]

The not friendly to new players part I will say is not too hard to address in Blood on the Clocktower. The Travelers & Fabled have a bunch of tools that can be used to make the game more accessible as well as the game being easy to explain as you go along. Rules like demon roll info can just be excluded from explaining by only telling the demon during night when they learn the information.

[@testnameone806]

So I just played Blood on the Clocktower twice tonight, (In Melbourne) given how many people are expressing opinions without having played it, I thought I would share my experience (I have no connection with the creators nor kickstarter), here are my first impressions: I have played a fair bit of Resistance / Avalon before, but not Werewolf. I got to inspect the prototype game for half an hour before playing (the cafes owner just handing it over to me when I said I was here to play it and I had arrived early) after resisting the temptation of putting it straight on ebay, I dived into the boxes contents: 1: There is a lot of contents, It's a base game and three expansions worth in one hit. 2:The Price Given the large amount contained in the box, the $79 kickstarted price didn't feel extortionate, but neither a "Mechs vs. Minions" level bargain. Depending where you live its bulk means the postage may well be off-putting. This was of course a prototype, final version may vary. Ultimately thought the value is in how much fun it provides, not loot. 3: The Felt. It simply works, the friction keeps the pieces in place allowing the Storyteller to swan around the players gracefully, book held aloft. like some possessed preacher. The story telly has to move around the group and the Grimoire is the toolbox that allows them to communicate effectively with the selected players in silence. Since the players have too initially draw pieces from a bag, magnets might cause them to stick together, so I think felt is a good choice, plus you need to feel the fuzzy side in order to ensure you draw your token face down. This token is then returned to the Story Teller where its felty friction is used to mark your role in the Grimoire. The Game Experience: The video sums it up far better than me so I will be brief: The gameplay design is impressively elegant, and evil. It's a riot, always involved, people playing coy for variety of reasons, no certainty, heated accusations and rebuttals, rampant paranoia, the storyteller to nudge it along, or balance the play is a great addition to improve the experience. The fact that dying is not the end keeps you involved, and the ability for players to drop in or out is genius. Was impressed by the 'clock face' voting mechanic', and the opportunity it provides to fool the less observant upon how you voted, the design is full of these wonderful nuanced little elements, the amount of extensive play testing shines through in its overall polish, nothing felt incomplete or clunky. Love, love loved it, especially being the Demon, brings out the inner serial killer. Negatives: I did feel there are a few issues worth mentioning: It needs a large group to play, we had 11, this was possibly a little too large as it meant the night phases could take quite some time and the temptation too peek might be too much for some players to resist. Initially the game appears intimidating, despite being summarised to one page of A4 there are still a lot of roles and nuances that really need to be understood, and then the drunk, poison, false positives, and what counts as the first night etc... New players may well feel lost and put off if not familiar with social deduction games, certainly not an 'opener'. That said it is chaotic fun to pick it up as you go and the Story Teller does provide valuable help. If you the Sherlock Holmes type who likes to logically solve a problem, this game might frustrate you, there is a lot of false, or potentially false information, that doesn't permit much real certainty. On the other hand this does produce delicious dilemmas where you are trying to work out the odds of each persons passionate version of the truth. I suspect the quality of your experience will depend somewhat upon the quality of your story teller, they have a lot of control over the initial puzzle and some on the balance of play, and the story teller has a daunting manual to digest before playing. So games with novice Story Tellers may lead to disappointing first impressions. My Verdict Half way through the first game it clicked for me, I was sold, and have now backed the kickstarter, For the sheer entertainment it provided it represented great value compared to many other games I have bought. I understand the scepticism, I was too thats why I sought it out to actually play, , but as more people get to experience the game, it will cement its position as a very entertaining social deduction game. Despite the somewhat unsettling and gushing infomercial tone of SUSD video, for me the hype is justified, I look forward to playing again hopefully next week.

[@K1llerL0mbaX]

Watched this video like 5 times now. I've never played nor will I ever likely play but it looks so good and I love this video.

[@the_legend_of_Melo]

Don't worry, you are not the only one. None of their backers are likely to ever play this game either :D They keep delaying and by the look of it, the game was more done when the kickstarter started, than it is now. This is really frustrating.

[@benji-menji]

@@the_legend_of_Melo We are actually on the final stretch. Pre-production is coming to a close and the game is being brought to everyone later this year. If you look at the new designs in their updates the difference is massive. Edit 10 months later: Now it's coming. Nothing can stop it now. :)

[@BRNRDNCK]

@@benji-menji In retrospect this was false and the time is once again extended

[@benji-menji]

@@BRNRDNCK Yah, but I'm still excited. I can belive they need the time.

[@Harry_Ballsagna]

took a few years but I finally got my copy today!

[@paulrumohr]

Favorite game based on one of social deduction's tiredest, oldest, set of rules and mechanics?

[@jdk997]

Better than Twilight Imperium IV? Really?

[@Gnarrkhaz]

Well, that's not that hard now, is it? XP

[@kieranclarke6161]

By far yes

[@MrBizteck]

11:50 Excellent sword play dear boy....Excellent.

[@theautisticguitarist7560]

People keep buying these party games like isn't easier to just actually kill your friend irl smdh