Dune Review - Dusting Off a Legend

[@mikepittman9686]

This sounds like it could be my favorite game ever... that no one else will ever want to play...

[@MasterGhostf]

id play...

[@theodorejackson7760]

I won't play it with you too! Looking forward to it. But that presentation sure was hilarious. (Very nearly) dragged across the floor in his obsessive desire to ride that worm? Guess that's one way to ride a giant worm (or a guy in a sleeping bag).

[@tigerpjm]

If you have a PC then Tabletop Simulator is the answer. There is a very lively scene and, better yet, it takes a lot of the fiddly busy work out of playing.

[@theodorejackson7760]

@@tigerpjm Sounds perfect for Dungeons and Dragons. Know where there is a video of people actually USING Tabletop Simulator?

[@tigerpjm]

@@theodorejackson7760 Ted you'll probably find that most of KZbin vids of most boardgames being played online are actually Tabletop Simulator.

[@MrGibbonici]

Having played Dune since the 1980s, one of the things I've learnt is that no matter how badly you've ballsed up, no matter how profoundly you've been owned, and no matter how much of your gameplan lies in tatters, there is always a chance you can pull it back. Dune's a game of patience, opportunity and underhand determination as much as anything else, and there's no better victory than the one you pull with your last few troops after the big dogs have chewed each others legs off during their own epic yet tragically failed struggles for victory. The slow blade penetrates the shield, as they say.

[@MrJibbajabbawocky]

I think the biggest lesson new players need to learn is to not try and put all your eggs in one basket and make one overwhelming attack early in the game. After two or three games (that will probably end pretty quickly) everyone gets what they need to do and the fun really begins. :)

[@ChocManus]

​@MrJibbajabbawocky great comment

[@Rosso4654]

@@MrJibbajabbawocky I've only ever played one game of Dune and it lasted for over six overs including learning the rules. Anyways maybe my favorite board game of all time, can't wait to play it again.

[@lovemiracle5446]

I can't say I'm sold on this game. I've sat through a 28 minute overview and not one mention of a mechanic around drinking your own piss. Seems like this is a very loose adaptation of the Dune setting.

[@raisinsun4328]

I'm late but there technically is something similar; when you kill a commander you obtain spice equal to their power, which is meant to represent you reclaiming water from their bodies. I now realize that rule is kinda morbid.

[@AAron-gr3jk]

@@raisinsun4328 just practical :)

[@8Scientist]

Dont forget poo juice!

[@z-beeblebrox]

@Korben Dallas Rules explanations for that mechanic would have been in the unreleased Jodorowsky expansion.

[@ihatethatyoutubedisplaysyo8106]

If you drink the piss the Fremen win

[@Redskies453]

When friendships are too strong to be destroyed with Risk, this is the game for you.

[@Madmuli]

I'm gonna remember this quote XD

[@WilliamSteinfield]

epic comment

[@IgnatzzMaus]

who would willingly play risk in a world full of games that are actually good

[@snuffeldjuret]

@@IgnatzzMaus I had so much fun playing with a group of friends who had never played risk before :).

[@IgnatzzMaus]

@@snuffeldjuret okay so i wasnt considering the element of pure sadism

[@84elmer]

If you want to play DUNE remember not to fear it since if you do, you already lost. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.

[@jackfriedman6527]

I thought the little death was something else ...

[@lyreparadox]

Face your fear!

[@christophercotton7149]

I will face my fear. I will allow it to pass over me and through me...

[@DemonMage]

@@christophercotton7149 - fear is a kind of booze?

[@DavidOdum]

Yet another quote where it could be plausibly argued that Star Wars ripped off Dune.

[@mikeem09]

This game is indeed vicious. We played this many times in the 80's. I remember an Atreides/Bene Gesserit alliance putting one unit into a region against an entire army of at least 15 units. The Atreides player knew the enemy faction had a lazgun, so they played a cheap hero and a shield, and the BG player used his ability and told the enemy player to play the lazgun. BOOM! Entire army wiped out. Classic.

[@ModernPlague]

Haha, awesome! That is so cool! Memorable & unique situations/stories like that are what make gaming great. Thanks for the anecdote, I feel tickled just hearing about it---especially since this is one of those games that looks amazing, and yet probably impossible for me to ever play.

[@yuirick]

The fact that there wasn't any strategy involved should make this moment less "classic" and more "fucking horrible game design".

[@matthewrawls1184]

@@yuirick Huh?

[@Maric18]

@@yuirick it is a strategy to combine your powers with an enemy though

[@samus2205]

Yuirick that is strategy you fool

[@jackstanton3609]

"How often do you play the board games that you already have?" I feel personally attacked.

[@commanderboreal1343]

I went from a “I WANT NO I NEED THAT GAME!!” straight to “well.... I .... it would be neat... i guess..but... hrrmmnhg”

[@the3nder1]

I know! It's like he looked into my life and waggled his finger at me.

[@AFriskyGamer]

I bought a good 8+ board games during Christmas sales. I made the mistake of playing Terraforming Mars before most of them. Now I pretty much just play Terraforming Mars. The unopened sure do look pretty though, stacked in their lovely large pile..

[@timd4524]

@@AFriskyGamer Give it a couple of years and you can resell for profit. Especially games that were put out thru kickstarter as they are not produced by the millions.

[@JoelChenFa]

Your friends secretly laughing at you for collecting board games that they refuse to play with you

[@mjlaufgr]

I agree about the Bene Gesserit. Winning using their ability is the single highest high I've ever experienced in a game.

[@Anvilarm07]

So powerful to ally with the BG. And so dangerous because they help you win on the turn they want you to win on.

[@jorgejuantorresquiroga5441]

I have only played a couple of games (well, one and a half), but it does seem that the BG prediction is to be used as a deterrent. Sure it can be very difficult to pull it off, but being too keen to help a player win might mess with their heads and potentially influence them to play way slower in hopes that the prediction will sort of "pass"

[@acerumble]

Additional comment - This NEEDS a "We Play" in the vein of your most excellent Twilight Imperium stream. Matt in the diary room sharing his Harkonnen plotting would be pure gold

[@kpishnery]

Ace Rumble that would be amazing.

[@Sammathnar]

Oh, that would be so great.

[@lyreparadox]

+

[@cklester]

If SUSD doesn't make this happen, I will sue for negligence and malfeasance and malpractice and EVERYTHING!

[@matthewpaterson7701]

Needless to say, Matt must remain in costume throughout

[@kikamac684]

"Just wait for the new Dune movie coming out in 2020" Me in 2020: *laughs in quarantine*

[@UndeadBug]

And then the Dune trailer drops 0.o

[@dominikk3643]

@@UndeadBug And it's fire.

[@changsiah2]

@@dominikk3643 look fowerad to the movie

[@changsiah2]

quarantine is over

[@italianstallion7272]

Now it’s delayed

[@TheShadesOfBlack]

I've never been happier than when I saw Matt reprising his role as a worm

[@shutupandsitdown]

What do you mean "role"

[@udenost]

I laughed out loud and woke up both my sleeping kids. It was worth it.

[@davidcoblentz4624]

I died!!!

[@Cergorach]

For some reason any scene in any Dune movie involving 'riding the worm' have now been despoiled! FOREVER! ;-)

[@jessecunningham9924]

This was my first thought! I had just watched the Silk Worm review, too. Great job guys!

[@akareject]

Once a year, KZbin's algorithm actually presents a video I would enjoy. This is that video. Fantastic work and an instant subscription! Now if you'll excuse me, I have a massive back catalog to binge watch.

[@Markus-uh7rr]

Ooh you're in for a treat!

[@malcolmdonohoe9388]

Exactly my experience

[@matthewtamez5069]

Three months later, I hope you’re still enjoying. These guys are my favorite reviewers. Something about the way they do it adds a whole heaping of fun on the review process. Personally I think it’s because after all these years, viewers can still see the passion these people hold for the hobby, unlike others who just kind of say their piece and move on. They get excited over these games as they review it.

[@ananousous]

That's a nice head you have on your shoulders

[@spaceman9599]

My thoughts exactly

[@RustalWolf]

Matt's gentle yell as he hopelessly tries to escape Quinns is completely hilarious.

[@theodorejackson7760]

And the look on Matt's face as if to say, "Hi! Whatcha doin? Can we be friends? Oh no, he's trying to ride me! Wiggle away! Wiggle away! Why do they ALWAYS try to ride me?! It's not so much the riding that I hate. It's those damn giant hooks. They're bad for my pores!" Or... something like that. The gom-ja-goof and the just look that way moments were priceless too.

[@plektosgaming]

The basic mode is the original game's *normal* mode. As the designers intended it. The optional rules largely clutter the play-balance. It absolutely has to be played like this as each faction needs to balance the others properly. Other factions he didn't mention, all hilariously broken: The Fremen are the cockroaches of the game - nearly unkillable (half damage from the storm) and breed like them as well(no shipping costs, which means lots more spice to bring back units - Hardest solo win in the game, but EVERYONE wants to ally with them. They pretty much permanently own one victory location. They are always where the Spice is as well, siphoning it off like little vacuum cleaners - who then ride away into the desert like ghosts. The Bene Gesserit can run on no spice(charity - an actual function in the game!)/down to zero and suddenly overthrow an entire faction by turn 5 or 6. Every turn they are asked if they will remain neutral. And do so, effectively counting as zero units on the board until they aren't. They also can force you in combat to not play or play a certain card through their "voice" ability. All of their leaders are also at maximum strength in combat. And their predict the winner ability. If that member is part of a faction, that also counts. The Guild drops people on planet for half cost and are the only faction that can move them BACK(for free). Since combat in Dune is Pyrrhic in nature, getting out of Dodge with 8 troops and leaving the other two factions to die off is hugely powerful at times. If nobody has won by the end of the last turn, they de-facto win, Bebe Gesserit prediction or not. They also can choose to take their turn out of sequence on any round since they control the ships. Yes, they simply decide when to go, often last, and laugh as you try to pin them down. The game is a lot like Twilight Imperium in scale and complexity, so it will take 3-4 games to play at full effectiveness. BUT... When you do get to that point, it's absolutely epic. Better than Cosmic Encounter, better than any Euro-Game, better than Diplomacy, and honestly about tied with Twilight Imperium in the hands of players who know how to play it properly. Of the classic Avalon Hill games, this is without a doubt their single best one they ever made. For $40, it's worth it a dozen times over. Imperium Rex is just as good for only a little more money, but TI themed.

[@DreadedReinhard1]

Joseph Oberlander when you said that it has to be played like this, were you referring to the basic mode? can you pick and choose some of the advanced rules or do you have to accept all of them to play "advanced"?

[@plektosgaming]

@@DreadedReinhard1 The problem with the "advanced" rules is that it clutters the balance. Battlestar Galactica is similar. The expansion added content, but it became a cluttered mess. The optional rules in the original game SHOULD be used, but the advanced options are iffy. Basically remove pages 10-19: www.sorvan.com/games/dune/Rules/DuneRules.pdf In fact, pretty much ignore the new game's rules entirely and just play based on pages 1-9 of the original rules as they are more compact.

[@josephcourtright8071]

@@plektosgaming Actually the advanced mode has better balance.

[@tiagodarkpeasant]

@@DreadedReinhard1 sometihing that could be fun is applying the extra rules for people who are doing bad, like a handcap

[@eligra]

Late to the party, but the link Joseph Oberlander posted has little to do with the rulebook that come with the GF9 release. In this release the "advanced game" only adds another spice blow and makes battle cost spice if you want the troops to be full strenght, and the "advanced" faction powers. The advanced rules in the linked PDF definitely looks like lenghty and messy additions to an already big and heavy game (by modern standards) and I'm glad they are not part of the GF9 release. Also I think it was a mistake to make some faction powers part of the advanced game to be honest, that is were it gets confusing for people. So in short, play GF9's advanced mode but skip the battle spice cost thing.

[@calvinthegreat69]

Played this a bunch of times over the years with an ancient copy that was looking worse for wear after being bought off Ebay. Didn't matter it was falling apart, we had some of the most memorable experiences playing. The well defined when you can make break alliances is such a good mechanic. It helps a player who just got crushed from instantly losing and stops a player ahead from steam rolling. I've seen the Bene Gesserit win by prediction. I've seen Harkonen hit all 4 traitors. I've seen the Emperor and Spicers Guild team up to have all the money. I've seen somebody buy 3 useless cards in a row. I've personally been ruined by family atomics twice. It's messy and fun and brutal and when nobody had troops because they were all dead and you can only bring back 3 per turn, it was more politicking than fighting for quite a long time. I live it.

[@konstantinstepanov5461]

haha when 2 players who are in the lead either over extend in a fight with one another or get nuked... and then have their entire day ruined :D

[@oz_jones]

"I have seen attack ships on the shoulder of Orion" etc.

[@ingerasulffs]

@@oz_jones Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion

[@MichaelBoehnlein]

Walk without rhythm and you won’t attract the worm, Quinns.

[@jakubfabisiak9810]

If you walk without rythm, you'll never learn.

[@Vagabond820]

I was not disappointed by this comment string.

[@iain_nakada]

Just remember to pack your Weapon of Choice.

[@JohnFlower-NZ]

George Michaels knew how to walk without rhythm.

[@AndrewRichesson]

Once you revealed that a laze gun combined with a shield nukes all the units in the battle, I knew I had to buy this.

[@BobBob-pz1sd]

Paradoxical that a protective device can produce such a dangerous explosion, wouldn't you agree?

[@nymalous3428]

@@BobBob-pz1sd It was probably the biggest problem I had with Dune. How did anyone in it know if their target was about to activate a shield or not? Or what if the lazgun accidentally grazes a nearby friendly shield? It just seemed too risky to ever use either of them.

[@iankniel]

@@nymalous3428 I think this is done on purpose. I haven't (yet) read the novel or played the game, but it seems like a brilliant allegory for real-life nuclear deterrence.

[@nymalous3428]

@@iankniel Except that it wouldn't actually work. The very best personal defense you could possibly have, as a safety minded person, would be these special shields... except for the fact that a relative common and effective personal weapon turns them into weapons of mass destruction. If anything, all someone would have to do to set up an intentional occurrence of this is place a shield somewhere near the desired blast site and then shoot it with the lazgun from a long, long way off. And that's just barring the accidental occurrence! At least with nuclear weapons, there's a bunch of procedures that need to take place and they are difficult to make and store. It just seems like society would have to outlaw both shields and lazguns in order to survive, otherwise a mugger robbing the wrong person could decimate a city.

[@TheR971]

@@nymalous3428 It says a lot about how faithful this game is that I am not sure whether you are critiquing the logic of the shields in the book or as gameplay elements.

[@THESP-rz3hg]

27:45 So much water a man might submerge his body in it! Such luxury

[@blackjacktrial]

What sietch has that much water to spare?

[@warpartyattheoutpost4987]

On Arrakis your scrub your ass with sand.

[@jamesmontney865]

@@warpartyattheoutpost4987 Quiet! The Duke!

[@nymalous3428]

Some would see it as corrupt decadence and a disregard for the down-trodden. I half expected to see him toweling off and dropping the soggy towels in the street for the commoners to squeeze for a drink.

[@theodorejackson7760]

We have waited eons collecting water drop by drop and we will wait until we finally have enough... for Quinn to actually take a bath. Quinn REALLY needs one. He's been peeing and pooping in that damn stillsuit for a frickin decade now. I keep telling him that you can't clean the damn thing with a cup or two of water poured down your backside. Nor even a full immersion bath. You have to actually take it OFF to clean it. Yea, I know. Who'd want to take it off after ten years of use. And BTW, that much water is worth about ten million loogies! "Waste not, want not", I always say. Wha? DAMN! It's raining outside. Nevermind. Darn that Bene Gesserit weather-witch! She said only "hot with a chance of worm-sign".

[@GregOlotka]

Just had to add that the lighting in this video is exquisite. Small details like that are appreciated.

[@dynomite8561]

A sheer legend indeed. Amazing game and still playing to this day in 2022! When you find 4-6 brave souls, the experience is like no other. 100% player interaction. The teach is actually easier for those familiar with the Dune story because all the cool Dune rules happened in the books. For my group we hit the ground running; instant treachery, shady deals, epic battles and plenty of hardships BUT, the hardships only made us want to play it again and again. And the complete uniqueness between the factions makes it feel like a whole new experience each time you play. You get 6 "new" game experiences in one box and every game is never the same.

[@DensetsuVII]

Just wanted to say that as a film person, I love the orange fill light you got going on here (presumably Matt) - spicy work for a spicy game about which I knew almost nothing! Really worming your way into our hearts with this one.

[@borreholic]

"Lubricated Oligarchs" is my new go-to team name for any occasion till the end of time.

[@TabularConferta]

This is a pretty much a perfect review. I played Dune once with a boat load of friends. It went on for ages but god I still remember it and it was fun. The level of plotting, scheming and machinations were amazing. Near everyone almost always felt all powerful and at the same time useless. Off table trades to forgo expenses for later boons and dealings were everywhere. Heck even the threat of a fight is a real reason to pull back, rather than risking it. That said the reason I haven't snapped it up immediately is that it is so much harder for me to find the people and time, so I end up asking, if I think I'll play it and sadly for me the answer is currently, no.

[@theodorejackson7760]

Sounds like the fun me and my friends used to have with Dungeons and Dragons.

[@jafftiti1476]

Me: See Dune in shop, take it mindlessly because I am a Dune fanboy. Me after seeing the video: Now, how I am gonna find people to play with me...

[@faucetrememberly2399]

I LEGITIMATELY HOWLED WITH LAUGHTER OUT LOUD WHEN MATT ROSE UP AS A SANDWORM. OH MY GOODNESS

[@robertpeyton9535]

The look on his face was priceless.

[@millerh4500]

"Put your right hand in the Dune box" "What do you feel?" "ADVANCED MODE COMPONENTS!"

[@roblloyd2262]

“Usul, we have mattsign the likes of which even God has never seen.”

[@TheDungeonDive]

Just to clear something up. Every page of Dune is magnificent. One of the finest novels ever written.

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

Gotta agree, Frank Herbert's death was a tragedy, made especially bitter by the way the Saga was left and the quality of the writers who finished it up. I have gone through Dune so much that I can recite good chunks of it near verbatim and I still keep coming back and enjoying it, possibly because I keep finding new nuances and ideas to think on and "new" bits of advice relevant to my life.

[@TheDungeonDive]

@@theapexsurvivor9538 Also, in today's sociopolitical climate, it's more relevant than ever.

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

@@TheDungeonDive indeed, the "liberals" in our governments are coming out of their closets, people beg for laws over the judgement of balanced minds, the "Fremen" have been loosed upon each other and the West, and there are those who wish to produce Arafel, the machine which can emulate not only a human mind, but the mind of the predator. I recommend finding or founding a sketch and disappearing from the internet in the next year or two, the further off the grid you're prepared to go the better. I'm no prophet of bad times, I'm just cautious of some paths that may lay ahead. May your water be plentiful and your footsteps be upon solid ground.

[@lettuceprime4922]

@@theapexsurvivor9538 - Jesus. This man reads Dune but drinks fascist propaganda instead of thinking for himself.

[@tfitz36]

oh good, I'm halfway through the first book and enjoying it but he got me worried it was gonna drop off in quality.

[@blaflargasnogger7045]

“oHhHhH that’s gone RIGHT to the gentlemen vegetables” -Quinns, 2019

[@Clowreader]

Honesty, I thought that would have been mentioned sooner with the goof-jabbar...

[@daem0nfaust]

I learned a new term today.

[@Floorhocking]

“Either a warning or an instruction manual, depending on your temperament” might be the funniest phrase I’ve come across today (and my day has involved reading the phrase “a form of constructive necrophilia”).

[@tamijo-]

Ah yes. Yet another game I am desperate to buy but have absolutely no way of feasibly playing. 🙃

[@dawafflesupreme]

You should look at Tabletop simulator. Buy the game IRL to support the creators, then play online with fellow enthusiasts who most likely already know the rules. Tons of nice people to play with, and it will run on anything.

[@cyclemadness]

I have 15 games, new ones, good ones. I have played maybe 4 of them.

[@1183newman]

Play it on Tabletop simulator :D

[@robertchmielecki2580]

Western consummerism loves you all ;)

[@jcb3393]

That was "Republic of Rome" for me. Finally got it, sat on my shelf for 3 or 4 years, unplayed, and finally sold it.

[@brokenwave6125]

House rules are always a thing with board games. If you want some of the elements from Advanced but not all of them...you do it. As you said...you paid for it.

[@citylifechurchlivestreamin7160]

2 consecutive videos with worm-Matt? The pear is pleased

[@links-gut-versifftergrunme1809]

18:23 I saw the 2021 movie just yesterday and it's hilarious how close you came to the original with the whole depiction (even using the right hand and all).

[@somebodysomewhere5571]

The movie is awesome

[@Nozoki]

This guy is the Alton Brown of explaining board games.

[@austinfullerofficial]

Good Eats is coming back and it’s exciting.

[@kane2742]

Alton Brown combined with Stephen Merchant.

[@coreymayo8321]

You nailed it.

[@GirishManjunathMusic]

Ok so I'm back here after having actually read 6 out of 8 Dune novels, and boy does the board game make so much more sense when you know how the world is structured. Also you guys made me read over 4000 pages of 53 year old science fiction fantasy, and buy the fancy new reprint of the original, so I hope you're happy. The Bene Gesserit are not only cooler than the Jedi, they are arguably more influential. Until Leo boi wrecks house with their machinations anyway.

[@madman19931612]

question: does it get better or worse? I own several of the books (bough cheaply at a second hand fair) but i REALLY struggled with the second book. The first one was difficult but cool, but this second book is just so abstract that I have difficulty wrapping my head around it all, let alone enjoy it. So should I continue, or just pick up a different sci fi book?

[@GirishManjunathMusic]

@@madman19931612 the first three are great, the second three are mediocre, and the last two you might as well skip.

[@GirishManjunathMusic]

@@madman19931612 I'd recommend you just pick up an Asimov or a Clarke Sci Fi instead, if you're finding the second book too much already, they only get more convoluted. I personally recommend I, Robot (either the sbort story series or the Will Smith movie lol both are great) and 2001: A Space Odyssey.

[@madman19931612]

@@GirishManjunathMusic a thanks for the helpfull advise! Shame its not my style, but what can you do *shrugs*

[@GirishManjunathMusic]

@@madman19931612 yea I've found with Dune people either love it or can't tolerate it. There's vey little gray zone.

[@Tivizzz]

THE WORM. THE WORM IS BACK.

[@Sand_Bard]

if you walk without rhythm you won't attract the worm

[@Tivizzz]

Drew G But if you walk without rhythm, you'll never learn.

[@chaunceygardener2415]

How tf did they get that worm in the box?

[@devinbaird2470]

YES!

[@legionofyuri]

Just played for the first time today after buying the game to commemorate the new movie. Everyone absolutely loved it and was blown away by how deep it was.

[@richardfluck7491]

Frankly, one of the best game review videos I have ever watched. Played the Avalon Hill version with my brothers and sisters back in the day.

[@lukearnold8984]

Bought this game following seeing it at a shop and conducting my research here. We had the absolute best time and I cant stop thinking about it. Totally worth the initial learning curve. Thanks!

[@salemite]

Fear is the mind killer, and I fear the wrath of all the Star Wars nerds who get mad when I tell them slow knife duels are more interesting than light sabers.

[@joanmoriarity8738]

@korrok The slow kindjal pierces the shield. (Personal body shields in Dune prevent anything that's moving quickly from passing through, so you have to defend quickly and attack slowly in a duel.)

[@darthcole4668]

I wonder if the humming of a lightsaber would be enough to attract a Sandworm.

[@scockery]

The duel in Empire Strikes Back was interesting. It's when the prequels came around and there was all that jumping and stuff.

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

@OriginalTharios while I agree for the most part, lightsabers are slightly attractive to each other (though strong impacts cause them to repel instead), so a lot of those big swinging movements are to stop the blades clinging to one another. It would actually make sense for a more Dune-like approach to duals, with fast, arcing blows being (deadly) feints, and perfectly timed stabs being the attack sinister (harder to block a stab, but leaves you wide open if parried), with force pushes and kicks being used both as counters, and when your lightsaber can't strike an opening. Only extremely skilled Jedi and sith would leap at an opponent, as they'd need to use the force to redirect them or end up skewered worse than Jamis. In large force user vs soldier type conflicts, Jedi would probably just dance in place deflecting blaster bolts back at the shooters, or simply carve a path with graceful cutting movements, quickly and efficiently killing with minimal carnage, practically making an art of death (if they kill at all); while Sith would either become a bloody maelstrom leaving everyone around them mortally wounded and incapacitated, but alive and suffering, or use quick lunges, scything their blade(s) through as many foes as possible, carving a path of bloody murder to their destination. Either way, any movement of the blade is only to bring it into contact with the target, or change the direction of an attack, never to add force to a cut (except against armoured objects such as blast doors and certain droids).

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

The Empire Strikes Back dual between Vader and Luke was on par with the way I visualise the Jamis fight, and the follow up in RotJ wasn't too bad either, maybe equal to Gurney vs Paul on Caladan, but yeah, the Fremen knife fighting would make any _good_ Dune movie a blockbuster hit (though I still reckon it needs an anime adaptation (24-52eps+12-24ep Messiah OVA), maybe Studio Bones for animation and Production IG for design), and the mind games would make it interesting on repeat viewings (I mean, the audiobook is still interesting after my 30th listen, though I'm still struggling to get into God Emperor on the 5th time through it). Just a shame that no one actually wants to make a Dune movie, just a movie bearing the name and the most basic elements of the plot (most characters, the rough setting, as little of the nuances, worldviews, and messages of the book as possible, a few bare bones fight scenes).

[@martialdoctor3482]

Playing as Atreides, I used my ability and found that my opponent, Harkonnen was going all in with a shield to protect him in order to definitely win our engagement (he also had a larger force). So, I used a weak leader with the lasgun... the sacrifice was worth it :D

[@MBlacklaw]

I have _GOT_ to get a t-shirt with the lasgun card formula on it!

[@eldritchsquirrel3138]

People say the film is bad but just hearing the soundtrack gives me shivers. There's an order of consumption that will make you love it, I think it's film-book-film

[@jernfuglen]

The first Dune game also had a great sound track. Ecolove is one of my favorite pieces of music.

[@NefariousKoel]

I was a bit confused when I first watched the '80s Dune movie as a kid, and wasn't terribly enthused. But I decided to watch it again, years later, and I'm damn glad I did. Every subsequent viewing was more enjoyable. I can't say that about many films at all. Despite it's issues, I generally enjoyed it's strangeness and I always seem to notice little things I hadn't before. Of course, I read the book somewhere in the middle of those viewings and it further helped the noticing. Multiple views really helped me figure out what all was going on in the film, and I often see that as a major complaint from those who've only seen it once or twice but never read the novel. I also thought the old SciFi Dune cable series was pretty good despite the limited budget. They did a better job of explaining the universe & such. Obviously due to having far more run-time to use in doing so.

[@tiagodarkpeasant]

@@NefariousKoel it could be a good movie, but the story just skips some times which is disappointing, it would be great as a GOT series

[@craniifer]

Great soundtrack, but I laughed like a madman at that Navigator shitting a laser.

[@winghong3]

Damn, that intro when you walked in with the "stillsuit clothing" had me laughing in tears XD

[@cantrip7]

Speaking of games that aren't "really" 2 or 3 player: would you consider revamping the "games for two" category on the site so it doesn't include games you don't recommend for two?

[@taylorleyhew9093]

The nerve induction goof box was fantastic! I love Rex and I love the first four books of Dune, so I'm going to have to go in on this one.

[@charles3840]

My group has played it recently. I was impressed by how cinematic the whole experience was.

[@commanderboreal1343]

17:58 There’s a card called “La, La, La” that is completely worthless... I’m soled!!

[@theodorejackson7760]

And was the donkey card actually the 'Like a wild ass into the desert' card? Otherwise I have no idea that card's inspiration/origin.

[@megaman133]

Except to the Bene Gesserit ;)

[@declanashmore]

​@@theodorejackson7760 Nope, just a desert donkey. The "La, La, La" card is actually interesting. "La" is a Fremen word for an extreme "no", like a total denial of something. If someone you loved died, "No, no, no!" would be a very apt (albeit useless) response.

[@landocalrissian8758]

Teaching this game took a while. We forgot rules and suffered because of it. We made poor moves and lost entire armies. But if you dig into the rulebook and begin to understand this game, it is amazing. Easily my favorite. Can't wait to keep playing, especially after seeing the new film

[@jfridy]

In my college gaming group, this was one of the true classics, beloved be almost everyone. I slowly replaced every part with nicer components, counters, money, cards, and even the board. A true classic.

[@adelahogarth2761]

I've never seen a more apt display of 'nope' than Matt's face.

[@talltalesandothershenaniga8358]

We only play this a couple of times a year - its an all day event with good food and alcohol - so much laughter and so many stories - each game is 8 - 10 hours long. So 20 hours of game a year is probably more than a lot of my other games get in a year even though they are 90-120 minutes long. Therefore I think you definitely get your moneys worth

[@CosmicEncounter]

Tall Tales and Other Shenanigans :)

[@GallorKaal]

Me: "I watched this video a few time already... should I rewatch it?" Quintin: Smiles Me: "Imma rewatch it"

[@colenedrow]

I introduced this game to my friends and my brothers friends a couple years ago after watching this review and buying the game for myself. We literally call our group the DUNIES now because we are obsessed with the board game and Denis V's movies. Seeing Part Two in IMAX was epic with 22 of us! 🤯#longlivethefighters #thespicemustflow And yes. The Bene Gesserit are absolutely way cooler than Jedi.

[@JennerNuwen32]

Great review! The production quality is fantastic... great lighting and props/costumes. Very thoughtful analysis, too. Hope you do a playthrough video of this!

[@TheLadyFl3x]

Ok, Shut Up & Sit Down has always been fun and funny, but straight up I have never laughed outloud at a KZbin video like I did when Matt showed up in a sleeping napsack as the worm. SU&SD, I love you so much.

[@kylemorin3945]

I 100% agree about needing a consistent play group for this game. I had a group of very good friends to play this with, and after 3 or so sessions the games became so much better that we simply couldn't stop playing. The best thing about this game is that the more familiar everyone is with it, the more depth you discover to it and the more fun you can have.

[@Sand_Bard]

The visual gags in this one nearly broke me, and confused my roommate when he walked in and saw Quinns in his stillsuit.

[@theodorejackson7760]

Quinn's continuing obsession with riding that worm was f..king hilarious.

[@richgarc84]

“The gentleman vegetables” is a phrase I’m going to start using 😂

[@CosmicUtube]

Radishes?

[@JustinLillich]

This video absolutely made me a fan of this game. It's incredibly complex and keeps you coming back for more even if you've never ecked out a victory. This also just happened to be the first SU&SD video I ever watched and now love the channel. I'm what would be considered an easy mark...

[@JShankle8221]

Just played for the first time this evening. It took 5 hours with 6 players ending in round 6. (Side note: I wouldn't play this game with less than 6 players) Thank you for the review; it was a perfect explanation of how the game would play out (anything can happen at anytime). There were multiple rounds that we thought the game would end, but it kept going... Can't wait to play again! P.S. Fremen and Spacing Guild is a great Alliance!

[@Choose2Connect]

When that guy in the scuba gear started wrestling with the guy in the sleeping bag, I liked the video. Jk... great review! Thank you.

[@davidkral6775]

that first 20 seconds of intro were PERFECT. i paused to like as soon as you came onscreen

[@davidkral6775]

AND THEN THE WORM five minutes and thirteen seconds later

[@thesupermikey]

The production of this video is out of this world.

[@gasmonkey1000]

I offer my water to you Quill! *Offers water* Edit: HBO made a Dune miniseries. It's... Better than the 1984 movie. They got the Baron about right, aside from still *flying*.

[@davidcoblentz4624]

I can't stop laughing at the worm gag from silk!!!!! I'm still laughing as I write this!!

[@Jethro-goro]

I recall the second time I played the game, I held one of the top two cities (the one closer to the shield wall) and another player held the other. A third player promptly nuked the shield wall while the storm was approaching (thus making those two cities not safe from the sandstorm). I, going next, played something that let me move the sandstorm, and swept it right over my city and parked it on theirs. We both lost our forces, but I got to immediately move back in, while they had to wait until the sandstorm moved (I occupied that city too).

[@BeerMatt96]

It looked like Goof Generator 2.0 was going to give Matt a happy ending...

[@powernade]

right in the Gentlemen Vegetables

[@GregOlotka]

You should have mentioned the Quick-Start Guide. It's an easier way to get new players up to speed.

[@Chozo_hybrid]

This is a selling point for me ☺

[@GregOlotka]

@@Chozo_hybrid You can download the pdf from GF9. www.gf9games.com/dune/124

[@silverbane8065]

Have you tried the trading card game version? I have some of them, the fremen and bene Gesserit base packs for base game and I think I grabbed the fremen and spacing guild packs for the expansion. But I never had anyone willing to try playing. Didn't know they reprinted the game.

[@ECComicsFL]

One of the things I quite liked about the expansion they put out for this, other than the all new factions 30 years after the games inception, is that the back cover of the manual for that expansion includes a VERY handy guide to what Karama cards will do in odd situations. A very useful thing.

[@peterstedman6140]

For games like this, I always print out community-made player aids for my group. It's an event game, not a quick pocket game, so why confine myself to the base games shortcomings?

[@ormhaxan]

I agree that this game (or Rex) 100% isn't for everyone. I've had a game where multiple players almost quit out of anger and frustration. I've heard many complaints about the sloggish pace. Yet, I have also fond memories of Rex. I am interested in acquiring this reprint into my own collection. I just hope I'll find again the right people to play it with.

[@razorboy251]

First half of the first book......? I feel like we can't be friends anymore Quinns. :( Oh look, it's Sandworm Matt! OK, all is forgiven!

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

Yeah, it's at the very least passable through to Chapterhouse, though I would say that even that is somewhere in my top 30 books (it's not in my top 15 with the first because of how open ended it was and because it makes me sad about Frank's death whenever I finish it).

[@DrWhom]

It is a problem with all Frank Herbert novels. He sets up the political intrigue brilliantly, but is not very interested in warfare, which is dealt with perfunctorily, often invoking some kind of deus (or really: malifica) ex machina. He was quite aware of this, often teaming up with another writer to help balance things out (but then all gets resolved by magical kelp, not much of an improvement).

[@matthewboobier5030]

I thought that at first but then realised he flipped to where his book mark. He could only recommend half of the book because that's as far as he had read at that point.

[@larslaufer301]

Could you make a comparsion video between the reprint of Dune and Rex

[@tamidorwindtaenzer1377]

That I would love to see!!!!

[@felixhaggblom7562]

The Bene Gesserit ARE cooler than the Jedi

[@anotherone5235]

6:24 Quinns is one of those people completely incabable of winking? I didn't think I'd ever see one... :D

[@Jon0sterman]

I'm with Quinn and wink perfectly well ty v much, just happen to use both eyes :]

[@anotherone5235]

@@Jon0sterman The infamous doublewink :O

[@Voltgloss]

Makes sense. Remember the Gugong review? He had to ask Matt what winking was.

[@LJW1912]

Personally, my friend group plays with most of the advanced rules, but scraps the spice combat rules. We keep the flow to a single spice card instead of two, and go from there

[@MarkHancheroff]

Great Review. I played Dune while in College with a full table of players multiple times a week for a few years (88-90). Just an amazing game. The advanced rules are the original Rules, but I also still have the Two expansion sets Spice Harvest, and The Duel. They actually made the game really unbalanced. much better as the original.

[@RolandTemplar]

Harvester is not that bad, but duel is so clunk

[@josephpropati5690]

One of THE best game reviews I've ever experienced. Incredible job, subcribed.

[@ForgottenMovieGems]

Literally 5 seconds in.... "Where the feck is that like-button!?"

[@ChrisWood]

Really appreciate the Toto needle-drop at the beginning.

[@mafiacat88]

DAMNIT QUINNS. We've been over this before-YOU CAN'T JUST KEEP SELLING ME ON THESE GAMES-I need to SAVE some money.

[@crgrier]

To answer your questions about Karama Cards: You cancel the Emporer's wealth power by bidding for a treachery card for free. The Bene Gesserit prediction victory is NOT somethng the Karama card can prevent. In the original there was a player aid pad with all the cards explained on it. Here is the section about Karama cards. Karama Cards- When played can do any one of the following: A. Prevent other players from using some of their advantages once as explained below. 1. prevents the Atreides from seeing the future, once; or (optional rule) prevents the Atreides from using Kwisatz Haderach once. 2. prevents the Harkonnen from taking a second free treachery card, once; or (optional rule) prevents Harkonnen from capturing a leader once. 3. prevents the Bene Gesserit from accompanying one shipment; using the 'voice' once; or (optional rule) using worthless card as a Karama card once. 4. prevents the Fremen from controlling a worm once (their tokens in the territory are destroyed and taken to the tanks); or (optional rule) from counting Fedaykin bonus in one battle. 5. enables a player to bid for and buy one treachery card without paying for it or (optional rule) prevents the Emperor from counting Sardaukar bonus in one battle. 6. enables a player to land tokens from off-planet reserves at the Guild cost (half rate). The payment goes to the spice bank and not to the Guild. This takes the place of that player's normal shipment for that round. Or (optional rule) prevents the GUild from taking his move when he wants. He must make his move in his proper turn in the movement sequence. B. (Optional Rule) Allows players to use a special power suited to their character once. 1. Harkonnen - You may use a Karama card to take without looking any number of cards, up to the entire hand of any one player of your choice. For each card you take you must give him one of your cards in return. 2. Atreides - You may use a Karama card to look at any one player's entire battle plan. 3. Guild - You may use a Karama card to stop one off-planet shipment of any one player. 4. Bene Gesserit - You may use any 'worthless' card as a Karama card. 5. Fremen - You may use Karama card to cause a worm to appear in any territory that you wish. The worm is not drawn from the spice deck. A worm cannot devour tokens if not in a desert territory. 6. Emperor - You may use a Karma card to revive up to three tokens or one leader for free.

[@Wolfvonhinslik]

So heres my question. If I already own Rex, should I get Dune?

[@toomanybarts]

After seeing from 21’11” it made me think I should just get Rex!

[@Sweetestsadist]

Only if you're a fan of the license or if you're willing to waste money in a sad attempt to seek gamer clout.

[@GreyRockStudio]

No.

[@acerumble]

If you or anyone you intend to play with is a fan of the books, absolutely. If not, then no as Rex is an absolutely serviceable substitute of the game mechanic

[@oerthling]

Yes.

[@LordRunolfrUlfsson]

I had Dune back in the 80's. It didn't get much play in high school, but when I got to college? Oh, we played the HELL out of Dune in college.

[@MichaelTruly]

Oh my god the goof section just had me absolutely rolling.

[@kaibe5241]

Dune 2 was one of my all-time favourite PC games for YEARS. Dying for a new version.

[@papasnejk87]

Dune 2 (Genesis/Mega Drive version is far better than a PC original actually), then you have dune 2000 and of course!! Emperor Battle for Dune. Strongly recommend to play all of them!!!

[@Lagzlot]

On the subject of Dune adaptations, you could also look into the "Frank Herbert's Dune" tv miniseries, the most book-accurate Dune version as of this comment.

[@jakubfabisiak9810]

10:10 that's a great thing to put in the advertisement: it starts with a blind auction, where only one player actually knows what everyone is bidding on, using currency that has different value for different players, and all the proceeds go to another player.

[@Flukulele]

Quinns, Worm, this is a truly remarkable review. A very, very, VERY shiny diamond in a field full of ....................SU&SD's other very, very shiny diamonds. On that note I'd consider keeping your diamonds inside if I were you. Neighbourhood watch isn't what it used to be. I really don't think that people appreciate just how hard it is to write a decent review about ANYTHING. But when that 'thing' is a 40 year old, cult sci-fi literature themed, already semi-legendary, definitely 'not-for-everyone-even-mega-fans-of-the-source-material', ultra heavy-weight strategy board game sort of thing, OH MY GOODNESS how would you even begin to approach this? And yet the result is not just 'a decent review' but an exceptionally well thought out, immaculately produced and deceptively thorough evaluation, which not only succeeds at being subjective, objective and massively entertaining but appears to achieve all of those things effortlessly. (I'm sure that definitely is not the case) I am (and i'm sure many others are) in awe and I just wanted to doff my cap in appreciation of you and your considerable skill.

[@22bloodshot222]

this review aged like fine wine

[@Veggieman87]

I still feel bad for the original Goof Generator. It was a good machine that just wanted to retire peacefully. Matt destroying it was the biggest heel turn in board gaming history, I say.

[@Friariello91]

0:40 Jodorowsy's Dune documentary is fundamental for knowing how Star Wars and Alien franchises started in the late 70's (and why not, the incal and metabarons comic saga, which I highly recommend to everyone loves crazy sci-fy).

[@carrickrichards2457]

I still have the original game and agree it is SO GOOD it needed little updating but remastery of the components is great! I disagree on complexity: I found it easy to learn, hard to master! The low-chance asymetric play balance is elegant and intriguing. Thank you for updating.

[@Dracobyte]

What changes would you implement?

[@styfen]

18:29 Let us never forget the time that Quinns reached between Matt's legs and found a joke.

[@chinwhat]

I really enjoyed the lighting in this episode!

[@MythosGandaar]

That cut to the hot tea was PERFECT, you guys are geniuses

[@matthewpalfreyman6083]

Quin'tin Smi'th has ridden Shy Matt-Uld. Actually that sounds weird. Great review guys!

[@ep103103]

My friend group played a few times, but we couldn't get over how difficult house atreides is. Atreides may be able to effectively mine spice, and that absolutely helps, but its hardly fool proof just due to the size of the map. All the other powers have passive income, which means that House Atreides will fall behind and lose if it doesn't manage to stay ahead in actively selling information to gain spice. But, at least in the games we played, the other houses don't _need_ this information. Sure, it can turn battles at a critical moment, but its always considered to be a value add as opposed to a necessity. This meant, in all of our games that each turn House Atreides was taking notes on who has what cards throughout the game, and then constantly trying to talk to the other players into deals for information. If a deal went through, Atreides might gain, 1, 2, 5 spice. Meanwhile other players were raking in multiples of that passively each turn. More importantly though, this whole process takes copious amounts of time. We didn't want to speed up Atreides, because if he couldn't sell, his house was extremely weakened. And how can you ask a player to not play in their best interest in the game? But it meant he was working easily 4 or 5 times as hard as any other player, just to stay competitive in the game, while slowing the game down to boot. Then you add in all the rule complexities and exceptions to every rule, and the game really gets bogged down. I understand, thoroughly, how a group of people who have fully memorized this game and played it enough times to speak its language natively can thoroughly enjoy it. And we did have some crazy events happen (though every single one of those events was marred by someone realizing "Wait, actually, the rule says X, you can't do that"). All in all, I think the complexity of this game gives it a breadth and scope that almost all other games (besides Twilight Imperium) lack, and the narrative setting is amazing, but my god, the tedium of House Atreides really kills it for me, and I wouldn't attempt this game again unless playing with a group of people who have already committed to memorizing the rule book (and all its constant exceptions and unintuitive quirks) before we start.