Siege of Dragonspear review: RPG with an activist agenda? masterpiece of gaming? a bit of both?

Welcome to our Siege of Dragonspear Review. Siege of Dragonspear is the 2016 expansion to the 2012 enhanced edition of Baldur's Gate, a Dungeons & Dragons classic released in 1998.
As part of our Road to Baldur's Gate III series, we took on the challenge to play and review Siege of Dragons spear and herein lie our thoughts.
This is a computer RPG review, it's not meant to comment on the D&D ruleset or on how well Siege of Dragonspear or Baldur's Gate implemented it in its mechanics. This review is for non RPG specialized gamers who maybe hyped about Baldur's Gate III because of the trailers and footage of BG3 they've seen and who have, maybe, played Larian Studio's Divinity Original Sin II.
There are many games you could play in preparation for Baldur's Gate III: Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate Siege of Dragonspear, Baldur's Gate II Shadows of Amn, Icewind Dale, Icewind Dale Heart of Winter, Icewind Dare II, Neverwinter Nights 2, NWN 2 Mask of the Betrayer, NWN Storm of Zehir. If you only have time for one or two of these... should Siege of Dragonspear be one of them?Hopefully our review will help you decide. You'll find that we take on a few contentious issues in this review so I will also drop a few other links to other reviews and videos, as well as link to our review on Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition.

[@majorgear1021]

SoD is a hard pass. I’ll never support people who prioritize “the message” over making a good game.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Heard "the message" with the Critical Drinker's voice XD.

[@mightymickey88gaming74]

Another great video! Two things: 1: The inclusion of the hooded man being I felt was fine as he insinuated Caelar bears divine blood as well. He is testing both characters to see which bears more power for his future endeavors which makes the transition to bg2 make sense. Where as bg1’s plot was rather small in scale and shrouded in secrecy, siege of dragonspear was your character stepping into the lime light and going on a truly epic quest which grabs the hooded man’s attention. 2: the main problem with the plot is the Crusade. They repeatedly state the crusade commits atrocities but why... because it’s a crusade? I couldn’t help but feel like the authors wanted to make some comparison to real life crusades which are inaccurate because siege occurs within the crusaders homeland not a foreign country. Caelar’s main force would presumably be composed of fanatics willing to risk life and limb for their trapped countrymen. They would be committing atrocities against their kinsman and families. You could say well it’s her mercenaries but why would she ever employ or be able to employ mercenaries? Hers is a self described suicide mission to save souls while her opposition is an army (baldurs gate, water deep, etc) literally composed of established mercenary companies with questionable morales... and seeking soldiers. You would think mercs would side with them exclusively...

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Thanks for the comment. Yes, those are interesting issues with the lore itself, rather than the architecture of the story, but yes... it does add "whatthefuckedness" to the deal.

[@CT_Phipps]

The Crusade is forcibly conscripting people, stealing supplies, and employs a huge number of mercenaries. It's all to have enough of a force to attack Hell.

[@OneManStartup]

I personally played this game without "SJW" awareness and I don't remember that I even noticed this. The world is fantasy, so I don't care if woman in fantasy are strong. Still, I remembered graphics and fun epic battles. That was more important in this game right after playing BG2

[@ethosterros9430]

It's cuz u didnt have this crap shoved in your face that u dont notice it. It's very annoying to see the tropes happening from start to finish. Good gameplay, insufferable writing. Even better they write corwin as prototypical single mom npc who blindly serves the state. And ofc her baby daddy is supposedly a criminal but based on their conversation he wanted to be involved with the daughter but she didnt want him because he refused to be subject to the government blindly like her. The way she straight up turns on you after seeing all the good you do and your character because muh city is criminal. And ofc she only sides with you in the end if you pull on her emotions like some playboy which explains how shes a bitter single mom to begin with. Lawful stupid is right. Caesars narcissism to the very end resembles every empowered SJW with a chip on their shoulder. They claim moral superiority but really they just wanna get back at some ghost in their past, taking their pain out on other people. Its tempting to let her turn blackguard so that her uncle has to die to close the gate. like the thought that she completes her objective in the end while you get branded a criminal is so fucking trashy. Hes an innocent ofc but fuck man. This is why you dont pay for the bad decisions of other people the person in turn learns nothing.

[@mrsamtheman80]

Are you familiar with the same character in BG1? The only similarity here is the name; otherwise, they completely changed Safana’s personality. Not saying I liked her personality before, but they would have been far better off just giving this companion a different name altogether.

[@zacharybosch3633]

what bothered me about siege of dragonspear is that it felt like they were trying to make a whole huge standalone game, instead of an expansion to bridge the gap between two games. going to hell at the end of siege was escalating the stakes too far too quick, and felt like it cheapened the moment when you go to hell in bg2. originally, getting dragged to hell with irenicus in bg2 felt like a huge deal when it happened...... but then with the new context of siege and having already been to hell, it's just a bit like oh ok, back in hell again, already been here.... i found this with the enhanced edition companion quests in bg2 as well, they were so overblown and escalated way too much, they felt completely at odds with the original bg2 content. like going to heaven or whatever it was in dorn's quest?! nah tbh i wish siege had just been a standalone game in the same universe. as an attempt to bridge the gap between bg1 and bg2, it just doesn't work at all, but on its own i think it'd be really fun

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

On the other hand, in BG 2 you go to your own pocket in hell. A realm created By You. That is a bigger thing than just going to hell.

[@nibblesnarfer]

I heard that Beamdog wanted to make a game based on Infinity Engine, but the only way they could get a go-ahead was tied to baldur's gate-hence why SoD exist.

[@longjohnbaldry7360]

When the expansion first came out, I waited to play it due to all the focusing on "SJW" stuff and the very confrontational and tone deaf comments from the writer. As someone who played the original series many times, hearing her say she thought pre-existing characters needed a makeover, and that she always makes her characters diverse, etc, made me leery in buying the game (that and the fairly large price point). I eventually bought it on discount and played through it a few times to see if it was as bad as all the negative hype. Well, all the focus on the "trans" character I feel was overblown since you didn't even have to hear about it unless you asked her for further details (at least in the version I had). SPOILERS: That being said, the focus on identity, sexuality and gender was pronounced enough that at some points I said aloud "OK, I get it, Glint is gay." "OK, I get it, Corwin is a strong single mother that is BI." "OK, I get it, Dorn well sleep with pretty much everybody." It wasn't so much that I'm against any of these things being portrayed in games, its that the writer was so incompetent in incorporating them it was almost as if her writing method started with bullet points of some kind of social aspect she wanted to show, and the actual character development was an afterthought (if even thought about at all). Like, Corwyn wanted to start a relationship with me almost immediately after meeting her, and then she stressed something along the lines of "I can't just dive in, not after my last relationship... with a WOMAN!" Once again, nothing wrong with this, but it was such blatantly poor writing that I keep thinking SHOW... DON'T TELL! I agree with you 100% that Caelar was a terribly conceived "antagonist/anti-hero/I don't know?" The big end reveal of her motives fell extremely flat and made zero sense to me. And the little blurb cinematic at the end tying BG1 and 2 together was such a rushed little tie-in, where as I felt it should have been a major focus of the expansion. Anyways, I enjoyed hearing your views on the first game and the expansion and am enjoying your videos.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Wow! That is ALL spot on, mate. That's exactly it. I 100% percent agree with you. I didn't want to make the review to beat too heavily on the game for being an SJW manifesto. I think others have already nailed that hammer long enough. I think the game does have some redeeming qualities but... yes... the writers who picked up the torch disregarded completely the franchise's core audience and were all hell bent on making it "theirs". Bad way to go.

[@longjohnbaldry7360]

@@YeOldEntertainment That's my biggest complaint with games (and a lot of other media) today. Games are supposed to be an escape, not a focus on social and political arguments of the day. Its ok to put these things in very small doses, but the way of the modern game writer seems to be "how many talking points, political views, or social issues can I put in to be diverse, representative, and inclusive, in the most superficial way possible??" The sad part is, the people who will complain about a game will complain regardless and if you give them everything they want, they'll just move on to another popular franchise that needs "fixing." I first noticed this trend of poor writing in Dragon Age: Inquisition. I mean, if you want an example of a SJW creation that ISN'T taking from already established characters/story/lore then look at Marvel's THE NEW NEW WARRIORS. I feel like if you're basing your content off of these things you have no real content at all. To fix Dragonspear they should have focused on Irenicus and his interests in you, and the plot should have transitioned into you being the hero and enjoying it for a bit after saving Baldur's Gate. There should have been no romances with the new characters... the game is far too short and linear. Besides, you could have already started one with Neera, which is completely ignored in this expansion. Instead of Caelar, there could have been an actual villain who had been watching the events and once Sarevok was out of the picture they swoop in when everyone has their guard down. Skie as a major character was ridiculous since you could have completely missed in if you ignored Eldoth in the Cloakwood. Instead, maybe some hints that Imoen is more than she seems, or maybe some quests creating background to Gorion's past. I AGREE WITH YOU! They should have worked with the story from BG1 and 2, instead of trying to make it their own. There is so much to work with. They really dropped the ball.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

This is a trend that is spreading across the board in entertainment. Unfortunately, it is not only happening in entertainment, I'm afraid. I wholeheartedly agree with you, and I have found myself doing some hard digging to see if the game is an SJW manifesto or not before I buy. I have bought at least three games that I wouldn't have bought otherwise if I had known that the writing in them was more akin to an activist pamphlet than a game. In those three cases, I watched reviews from some of my most respected and admired youtube reviewers before I bought them, and I they didn't mention anything. Most reviewers seem to try to avoid commenting this issue as though it were some kind of plague.

[@longjohnbaldry7360]

@@YeOldEntertainment Because you'll get labelled and harassed if you don't share the same point of view. It is a plague on creativity.

[@longjohnbaldry7360]

And differing opinion discourse.

[@vladimirtchuiev2218]

Siege of Dragonspear suffers from annoying problems, especially when playing on Insane +. * There is no thief for evil parties. This is inexcusable, the game is almost impossible without a thief with all the traps. You can tip-toe encounters with the combined firepower of Edwin + Baeloth and play tankless, but you can't without a thief. For good parties a tank is lacking, but you can make-do with Minsc, while you pummel enemies with Dynaheir and later Neera. * The combat encounters are too skewed towards relentlessly massive armies, such that single-target spells are practically useless. Cloudkill, Web, Fireball, repeat. Rocket (fireball) arrows are grossly overpowered. * The final battle OMG... who decided in their right mind to have him immune to everything but +3 weapons? Nowhere in the game there is any clue about it, and I just blindly stumble across this without understanding why I can't even tickle him. Also, no option to rest before is horrible. * Every time you die you have to endure a lennnnngggttttthhhyyy cutscene. God-dammit the final boss is so guilty of it. * Safana is annoying, Corwin is insufferable (although obscenely strong gameplaywise), Edwin is reduced to a mumbling idiot, Neera is her usual annoying self, and the list goes on and on. * Cringe inducing writing. Tries so much to be funny, but fails at every turn. * I'm all for the idea of a lawful good villain, but Argent's motives are bogus, and the game railroads you into fighting here at every turn except at the end. * Life leeching ghosts. Fck them. Honestly, I'm really glad Larian got BG3 and not Beamdog. I loved DOS1+2, and the game shapes up really well, with no forced SJW crap and cringy writing as far as I can see.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Wow! spot on analysis man. This is absolutely it.

[@phantomvulpe791]

I was seriously pulling my fucking hair from the final boss and I have never screamed so much in my life. I had no idea that I needed 3+ weapons until after my 8TH ATTEMPT! 8! I had to look up a walkthrough through Google to find out how to the boss but that's not what makes me want to punch myself...what makes me want to punch myself was I sold those 3+ weapons cause I was low on gold so I had to do everything from scratch to beat this...it was infuriating

[@YeOldEntertainment]

@@phantomvulpe791 Luckily two or three in my gang already had +3 weapons. I took it down on my first try, but I was lucky.

[@vladimirtchuiev2218]

Not to mention that the final boss is a giant space flea out of nowhere. Even in Icewind Dale they have some context for him...

[@phantomvulpe791]

@@TheBiggreenpig unfortunately my poor halfling...you are. Though you have had use for my evil party you have fallen to the hands of our adversaries the harper

[@Blokewood3]

12:32 I actually think that the early chapters of the game do suffer from a lack of tactical possibilities: 1. The first leg of the main quest is the Coast Way Crossing: at this point in the game the only front-line fighter available is Minsc. Jaheira doesn't show up until you reach the Troll Claw forest (and once you get there, you can't backtrack to the Coast Way Crossing), Khalid and Dorn both require that you complete a long quest before you can access their areas. 2. In the Coast Way Crossing map, the only warrior companion besides Minsc is Corwin, who is a great archer, but terrible on the front lines. 3. To make matters worse, the Coldhearth Dungeon on this map is chock full of undead monsters which are highly resistant to arrows, meaning you absolutely need a front-line fighter to get through this dungeon, and all you have is Minsc. 4. Compounding that issue, Minsc is paired with Dynaheir, which limits your options for party building more, because you need an extra character slot for her. It also means you can't take Edwin at this stage because he is incompatible with Dynaheir. 5. For comparison, the original Baldur's Gate had a similar issue when it was being playtested: in the first chapter of the game the only easily available thief was Montaron. The designers added Imoen to the game to fix this problem. SOD would really benefit from having just one more front-line fighter

[@misaelaguirre1701]

😂 very simple kill dyahmir and ur able to recruit edwin and minsc

[@miniondaechir]

On inventory management, from what I understand based on modding the game years ago, the inventory system of each infinity engine game is probably hard-coded to some extent. If it was such an issue I'd bet the modders of the game would've probably created multiple mods to solve it, and I've never seen any inventory overhaul mod (to my knowledge). On that same note, you're not supposed to be able to stack wands. The number they display on the bottom left of their icons would be the amount of charges they have (obviously), and it would probably cause more problems if you were able to merge them.

[@WikkeSchrandt]

Thanks for the vid, but it's "Sarevok", not "Saverock"

[@Thorpal]

It's funny to see how many of those who have "debunked" the social issues/agenda/scheme/danger/orwhateverwordreflectsthefearsyourmoralorpoliticalsensiblitycantstand seemed quite fine with the fact that the main plot of the game is about leading a "counter-revolution" to, in fact, preserve the sake of the oligarchy ruling Baldur's Gate. I guess everyone has his own priorities. That fact only had much more writing potential but weirdly there's only one encounter where Caelar asks you to join her but none where your character question those leading his "own" side. Yet they are depicted as jerks but our Bhaalspawn seems to only care for the "macro level" of things when the plot needs to... Imagine if you could have switched side, failed with Caelar to take Baldur's Gate, ended in Avernus win/fail against the boss and then been captured by Irenicus. Would have been a different adventure leading to BG2 :) Otherwise, it was a really funny little BG : short, linear, the siege episodes were entertaining and descending into avernus very refreshing.

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

Yknow, i did a lot of Heroin while also doing a Heroine when i was Heroing really hard.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Heroinception (Please be polite next time, we all make mistakes)

[@rueporter2253]

I too used to do the slam dance to DND.

[@benl2140]

That must've been harrowing.

[@KhoaNguyen-zc8vn]

-Some side-quest, like Zariak's Vision (best SOD side-quest), requires you to watch walkthrough in order to KNOW about it -Not being able to backtrack sucks, so many side-quests when you accidentally passed can never be done. -Quests are so easily missed, like come on, you took your time to make them, at least make it more accessible. -The game punish you for exploring on your own instead of relying on walkthroughs and guides 5/10, wouldve been 8 if not for stupid quest skips and the

[@stevequincy388]

Ah yes, SOD, where to begin? I remember being completely stoked when this was announced around 2014 or so because of my love for the BG series. Well, after playing it all I can say is there is some fun to be had with some challenging combat encounters and an excellent musical score, But it just falls short in so many ways. Caelar could have been such an interesting character, instead it's like they couldn't decide what she was, is she evil? Is she good? What the hell is she? Because of this, the character is all over the place and makes no sense. After her motivations are revealed I was like "What? Thousands died in her crusade for that?!" Just poor writing. Plus it didn't help that Amber Scott was bragging in media interviews about how she was going to "Fix" Baldur's Gate. Baldur's Gate didn't need to be fixed, that's why the series is one of the most popular of all time. Or Beamdog openly begging for positive reviews after release. But that's neither here nor there and in the past now. What's important to me is the whether or not the game is fun and worth your time and money. I think there were some foundations for some really interesting storytelling in SOD, but sadly, the reality is Beamdog is no BioWare circa 1997-2000. Because of this, the main story just isn't very engaging and I just wanted to push through and finish it. You will likely end up scratching your head and asking questions about the main story and Calear's "Crusade." I'm not bashing on Beamdog, because of them I can play BG on my iPad on my lunch breaks...which is awesome. But they just don't have the talent to compete with classic BioWare and it's so jarring coming from BG1 to SOD, the writing quality just is night and day different. In closing, my advice is play through it once, as there is some fun to be had (especially on a good sale). But subsequent play throughs I'd just skip it and move on to BG2. It's also fine to just skip it, there's not much of anything that really ties it to BG2 besides a few "Hooded man" appearances so you're not missing anything vital to the story. They try to show how you end up in J.I.'s dungeon at the start of BG2, but it just kind of falls flat imho. Also, the final boss is quite beatable if you hit him with multiple "lower resistance" spells, after that you can hit him with slow, etc., luckily I had many +3 weapons so hitting him wasn't an issue. I know many have understandably complained about the difficulty spike, just sharing some tips I found. First couple tries I got creamed, last try was fairly easy once I lowered his resistance. I agree, a 7 out of 10 is a fair score, not a terrible game, just not on the level as the originals. Really enjoying your channel, keep it up!

[@MCDrB-wq8ed]

Amber Scott is all that is wrong with the modern entertainment industry. Nowhere near as talented as they think themselves to be but so unbelievably arrogant that they think they are better than creaters who created massively popular works. They believing that they have the talent to fix what wasn't in reality broken because they believe their talent surpasses that of the orginal creaters. Their arrogance then extends to them being unable to see, when the inevitable backlash starts, that it isn't everyone else who is at fault but it is them all along.

[@majorgear1021]

I liked the first few sentences of your post. It was too long to read all of it on my phone, but take my upvote!

[@gothenmosph5151]

I just finished it and I think the sjw stuff is overblown. Some games are ham fisted with it but this one didn't seem to be to me. I bet if there wasn't so much negative attention surrounding these gay/Trans characters in video games that most people wouldn't put much thought into it. But it's bought to their attention so now they always see it, kind of like a scratch on a car.

[@Vic-cf7lm]

Your fire-wand can not stack... because it is a fire-wand of 2 meters long, actually. As it is for armors and weapons. You can't stack those because it is some heavy stuff. So the impossibility to stack some items, is actually a good feature from the previous baldur's gate, and add some realism to your inventory management. Glad they keep it.

[@flibbernodgets7018]

Don't the descriptions of unidentified wands say they're 1 1/2 - 2 feet long? Isn't that about the size of an arrow? But as for realism, I don't understand why people keep bringing it up as always a good thing in video games. Its realistic for me to blink frequently. Shouldn't my screen go black every once in a while, then? I like it when games unrealistically smooth out little annoyances because that enhances immersion rather than detracting from it.

[@tbone9474]

I have a soft spot for Siege of Dragonspear, simply because I was heavily invested in my character and his tribulations. It's just a shame that the romances couldn't be followed through into BG2 with the extra members introduced into BG1 enhanced edition.

[@fredrichardson9761]

So if you are a fan of the old BG2 and BG1 games, the EE versions are quite nice. They are not at all meant to be a port to a new engine, they are simply an improvement on the old engine. That is they preserve as much original content and game play as possible while adding some nice features to the game engine that were much needed. They also unify the games (including IWD1 and I think PS:T) to use the same updated engine. I'm a fan of all of this since I liked the original games. Adding a chapter to an old game is no easy feat and I think Beamdog did a pretty decent job of this. I basically pick party members that are not too irritating (sorry, I'm not a fan of glint) and go from there. IMO there is some very worthwhile content if you look beyond minor dialog you don't care for (and can easily avoid), but it helps quite a lot if you were a fan of the original games.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

You nailed it man. Some people say Beamdog butchered the original games. And though I can understand where the people who say this are coming from (the enhanced editions are worse in lots of ways), I also think that unifying Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, adding some UX improvements, and adding new fresh characters with more to them than evil hating and hamster loving we are all positive things that needed to happen. I also think that an expansion for BG to fill in some blanks was indeed a good idea. Just not THIS chapter. It has too many bad writing devices that are there to justify the agenda driven concepts it introduces and this is a terrible thing to have. I gave it a 7.2. In my book this is a game that's worth playing to the end but it has too many things that should've/could've been different.

[@fredrichardson9761]

@@YeOldEntertainment 7.2 sounds about right - I'll have to think for a while if I'd give it any higher than that. I think the main positive points are game playing dynamics - there are some challenging battles. The writing didn't bug me too much on a second play through, but chances are I just skipped over it and avoided the characters I found annoying the first time 🤣

[@longjohnbaldry7360]

@@fredrichardson9761 They tried to squeeze too many locations in and new characters in such a linear experience. It was nice to have a Skald and Thief/Cleric (but I agree Glint was too annoying and terribly written to keep). I just wish they had maybe been more focused and did a simpler, to the games roots, type of story and just really fleshed out some areas that were lacking (instead of as @Ye Old Entertainment said trying to make the story their own). Having Imoen non playable was a giant fail in my opinion as well. I'm not a huge fan of her but shes WAY more important to both games than Skie ever would be. It made me laugh when they said she was a weak mage or whatever (implying she just dual classed) but in my game she was already a level 7 mage and quite powerful. Beamdog oversights am I right?

[@fredrichardson9761]

@@longjohnbaldry7360 You make some great points - I actually agree that the issues with the game likely stem from way too ambitious an undertaking. I am really enjoying my current play through, but mainly because I'm skipping anything I find annoying. It makes me appreciate some of the really good parts (there is some great dialogue, scripting and artwork). I'll put it this way: if the game were composed of only the parts I really admire I would not hesitate to call it a gem. Fortunately I know how to skip over the parts that detract from this which does make the game worth playing and maybe even replaying.

[@longjohnbaldry7360]

@@fredrichardson9761 I agree with you 100%. Skipping content made me enjoy the second run much more. I was just playing the 1st one again and thought to myself... that Centeol in the spider cave could have used a whole quest in the "expansion." So many missed opportunities. Or the weird bottle mage with Kahrk.

[@danbourlotos5188]

Yeah, I have a number of issues with SoD, but I am not sure I would have roasted it quite this badly. Hell, most of this SJW stuff just went right over my head (say what you will about saturation of that in entertainment these days). Not that I am disagreeing with you, I just winced a few times during the review while reluctantly nodding. Still, even with the suboptimal plot, it was pretty fun to play. I really do think that I held this to a pretty low set of expectations - if I had held it to the same level as both BG and BG:SoA, there was no way that it could have succeeded. Although you made a point that this is a standalone game... it really isn't. At best, nowadays, this would have been a DLC. This is why I didn't really have an issue with the shoehorning - from a story perspective, it was its entire purpose. Even knowing how it is supposed to connect the preexisting games, it feels like a side quest. The mysterious stranger was a little random at times, but I forgave it because of who I know it is, not because he fit in the narrative. Caelar was kind of lame, her motivations nebulous and ill defined. She effectively did what Sarevok wanted to do - bath the Sword Coast in blood. Trying to justify it in the final chapters was... meh, especially considering the obviously evil henchman. **Spoilers** Although I am quite exhausted with this whole, "bad guy is really a good guy, just misunderstood" trope, I think this fits well with Bhaalspawn specifically. The player character - even with the purest intentions, has literally carved their way up and down the Sword Coast. In SoA and Jahiera's quests, you get grilled by the Harpers in Athkatla. Although that entire quest is found to be a witch hunt, it did make me really think about whether or not I was doing as much good as I thought I was. I would of course label myself the hero, but in a vacuum, would everyone else? How much of that is just due to the circumstances and how much of it is because there is the blood of a god of murder pushing and pulling me towards violence? If Caelar was not a bhaalspawn, would she have tried to do this another way? Instead of really asking and exploring that existential theme more, we just got a "See?! I have been doing this for good reasons. Ignore the assassination attempts, and the murder and pillaging btw". My issue with Caelar is that, were she to be an addition to the story 20 years ago, these contradictions *might* be moot. As it stands though, she is THE EXACT SAME CHARACTER as Balthazar in ToB.

[@iantaran2843]

Legit, IWD2 has the best character creation system

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

It felt like an unneeded intermission. But i liked the battles and generally really love the ad&d spell calamity.

[@Metalhammer1993]

Plus it REALLY screws with BG2s balancing if you play the "whole" story. BG2 is too easy then except for Umar hills because Umar is like "fuck midgame parties" after a certain xp cap it just gets that much harder. And guess what you start at that cap

[@Dragon_Lair]

Part of the problem, I feel, was Beamdog’s own employees leading up to launch, the lack responsibility taken for bad PR, and them blatantly insulting long-time fans. One of the writers said she directly changed some characters because she felt they were sexist, gave Minsc a line meant to make fun of Gamer Gate, which they had since removed due to backlash, and the implementation of Mizhena but not the presence of her. For example, almost all clerics in the games are shops meant for buying potions, identifying magic items and healing. Mizhena has a unique dialogue mentioning the name. This one question alone makes it seem like names like Dynahir, Minsc, Safana, Khalid, Viconia, Edwin, Aerie or Imoen are not names worth bringing up. The response to that feels like a coming out of the closet speech and not a casual conversation. Add in the responses players can get and it makes things weird. Most dialogue options give players the option of a good response, a funny response or an evil response. This is not present for that. There is no option for players to respond negatively or make a joke. It doesn’t even have to be a transphobic statement, just something like “Shut up about that, I’m just here to have you heal me.” The whole thing could even have had a quest associated with it. Say Mizhena has a cursed item that changed her gender and wants to be changed back and needs the player to fetch a component for the spell and Mizhena cannot do it because the army needs a healer on hand. Safana was changed from a feme fatale who used her sensuality to manipulate men to do her bidding and into a bimbo. That was awkward for evil players who had her in BG 1 and went straight into SoD and had her whole personality shift. The awesome goblin character calling the player and other companions racist out of nowhere also did not make any sense, especially considering the lore surrounding goblins in the Forgotten Realms. Simple fact is, as you said, the writers painted themselves into a corner because of their activism, but not everything they did was bad. The combat was great, there were also awesome items, and the factions you could work with were very well implemented. The dwarves liche or helping a vampire were both really cool. Ultimately, I feel the game suffered more from bad PR and blaming fans for valid criticisms than they did from a bad dlc/expansion.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Yup, you pretty much nailed it.

[@Akaritomi]

I just finished SoD a week ago. I didn't really care about the whole "strong woman" narrative it was pushing since the game let's you shit on Caelar's stupidity and ignorance of her own crusader's actions. Then the predictable moment near the end happens leading to the final clash. I'll say i am GLAD i sharted on her the entire playthrough and she deserves what she got out of it. She's like a D&D version of Kyle's mom (South Park)

[@thepainsight]

Literally the only reason I play SOD is for the carry over items and to have higher experience at the start of 2. Also not being able to bring all of the BG1 companions causes me to somewhat limit the usage of some BG1 companions because I can't bring them into SOD. Why would I feed a ton of rare scrolls for example into Xan when I can't use him in SOD?

[@Samurai-no4wu]

I just finished the first one and you sir have convinced to skip it and go straight to Baldur gate 2. I've been binging the old games ever since I've tried baldur gate 3. On second thought I may come back to it after playing bg2 to see the difference between writing of the original to modern

[@majorgear1021]

Wise move! SoD is trash.

[@frankenfrank9553]

Hello mate, it's cool to see people playing these classics for their first time in 2023. Did you enjoy BG2+ToB?

[@Samurai-no4wu]

@@frankenfrank9553 4 months late, but definitely it's been a blast. I haven't started tob yet, but I will soon since I'm nearing the end of bg2. I did most of the side quests and I am currently mowing through the main story now with my current gear and spell loadouts. I've been romancing Viconia so it makes a little sad at how her character was done in bg3, but I get it.

[@nigazallucard]

Bleu....holy shit! Breath of Fire 1 !!!! You're definitely a man of culture.lol. One of the firsts jrpgs that I beat. good times.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

I think it was Breath of Fire II for the SNES. You can only find Bleu if you really go out of your way to some inconsequential library somewhere. But yes. I'm not crazy about JRPGs but that one blew me away.

[@nigazallucard]

@@YeOldEntertainment Yo man, exactly! I remember all the way to get her, and she's freaking powerful! Capcom always had a charm doing RPGs. I still have hope on a new Dragons Dogma.

[@Ravenoustoxic]

No wonder, I was dead bored with SoD and hype up with black pit all over again.

[@Damocles178]

Overall whether it fills a gap between BG1 and BG2 is subjective since it feels purely from a role playing perspective of your character which is fine. After all the expansion seemed to build you up as this hero of Baldurs Gate which may or may not fit your character. To me your character certainly does not have to be noble nor care about the future of Baldurs Gate. Hell in BG1 the unified reason to go after Saervok (no matter your character) is he will hound you till you die so you could be seen as a hero for stopping him but not necessarily for the sake of the city. You can still be a good Paladin and care about others so would maybe help to oppose Caelar Argent further down but by contrast if you are evil you can still go screw these people I don't care; Saervok was my only concern however stopping him does still benefit the city in avoiding the war with Amn. Would an evil character really be expected to care about Baldurs Gate after vanquishing Saervok? To me something else could've led to your characters heritage being suspected and Irenicius simply ambushing you once you leave the City after learning of Saervoks defeat without you ever dealing with Caelar Argent. Still a rather enjoyable expansion (despite the rather bad writing at times) but like optional sub quests maybe your character just chose not to get involved in anything to do with the crusade. It's not like someone in the city mightn't have somehow learned you were related to Saervok considering he was warranting your death for being a bhaalspawn and he had undoubtedly killed others for the same reason (like that guy in the BG1 opening) so that in itself might have made certain higher ups in the city become suspicious and make you feel unwelcome particularly if you aren't the typical hero type. One thing worth noting too is to even get to hell Caelar Argent needed your Divine blood as her Celestial blood would not do the job hence the true reason she wanted you to go with her; too bad they had no clue how to write for her so it all felt very vague with her crap about "You know nothing about me" yeah c'mon you want me to go? Tell me the real reason instead of this hero tripe.... However were Irenicius to just steal you early for his own purposes and take you to Amn before they could even enact opening the portal it would utterly stop her plans (and by extension Herphernaans to unleash a demon army) to get to hell dead to rescue her Grandfather as she cannot open the portal on her own. So the whole crusade just didn't feel particularly important in the end unless your character from a role playing perspective even wanted to get involved since certain things just cannot happen without you. What was Caelar really going to do if Irenicius took you away? The whole thing crusade would be a waste of time and she'd have no idea where he took you. As for this expansion being the point Imoen trains to be a mage? I say I'm sure there's other means for her to accomplish it lol one obvious one is pretending you dual classed her. Plus I don't really see why she couldn't learn from other magic users in the group (Except Edwin; he wouldn't teach her because he's Edwin); though going by BG2's canon party Dynaheir seems like someone that would before Irenicus killed her

[@Endarire]

Remember, BGII resets characters and SoD is purposely made to fit canonically between BGI & II.

[@guywhoneversleeps]

the plot forcing the development of characters was forced by the decision to make a game in which the plot on both ends have already unfolded. they did a decent job at that. and in the SJW stuff, i never really saw anything before the game or anything, and so i barely noticed it. there are some things here or there, but nothing that stood out too hard for me. and i just have to say your video making and reviews are top notch. keep going my man!

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Thanks man! That "and I just have to say" moment was quite a plot twist in your comment, and it brought a smile to my face. Thanks again.

[@guywhoneversleeps]

@@YeOldEntertainment glad i can put a smile of your face. you deserve it. P.S. im waiting on the throne of bhaal video until i finally beat the watch tower and finish my opinion on the expansion overall. somehow, ive never played through it.

[@awesimo4684]

It shocks me to hear people talking about "agendas" and "identity politics". I didn't notice anything. Maybe I took the wrong companions or something.

[@Marcusianery]

@@awesimo4684 There is parts of characters rewritten to suit an agenda.

[@mikedeck8381]

It's an OK game but really has little or no replay value. Don't see a lot of people saying they'd want to play it through as another class or anything along those lines. You can complain about the politics but it seems inevitable in this day and age. Overall give it a 5/10 or 6/10. Not bad but it sort of sticks out as a blemish if you consider how highly regarded the other two games in the series are. To be honest they could've added 15 or 20 hours of content to TOSC and bridged the gap to SOA. The whole issue with the party gold could've been explained by the Iron Throne or Durlags heirs taking legal action against you. Imoen becoming a mage is only an issue if you have her in your party. Maybe you take Skie and Eldoth, remove them as companions and make one of them a Bhaalspawn. The game ends with you being hired to clear Cloakwood from Shadow Druids and the remenants of the mercs hired by Sarevok with the classic group. Foreshadowing Irenicus was pointless. Whatever, no use crying over spilled milk.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Well said

[@ryanc5572]

"Your tenous connection to the essence within you..." is so lame. It reminds me of Reginald Longtooth Worthington III, who speaks in novels but doesn't say anything whatsoever, and you can even call him out on it. This is played seriously in this game and is just eyeroll inducing and tiresome. Towards the end I just told the hooded man to stop bothering me, haha. One of the best storylnes in the game can be completely missed, but is really good and tragic, so it's proof that the writing had real potential.

[@samflood5631]

You think the character derailment in Siege of Dragonspear was bad, just wait until you play Baldur’s Gate 3 where the game completely ruins Viconia’s character by making her an evil leader of the Order of Shar and she ruined Shadowheart’s life by brainwashing her into worshipping Shar and torturing her parents

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Thing is I already did and made a video on it. And I agree, yes.

[@JohnSmith-qe6fb]

I tried to replay it but it feels like a mod, nothing near a professional studio expanding on a game.

[@fangan4770]

The first thing you should do in Dragonspear to switch the graphics settings back to normal BG graphics. This cartoonish graphic style is ugly as the butt of a viewer.

[@matthiasbreuer8710]

Honestly, this in one of my favorite parts of the series. I think people are blowing the SJW thing way out of proportion - I didn't feel like it hat any impact at all on the writing. Quests are as good as BG1 or better, the level range is perfect (you're neither weak, nor OP), several new interesting NPCs, some of the nicest looking maps in IE games, some of the best fights in the series, particularly in terms of scale, loot that offers interesting little abilities over raw power etc My primary criticisms are that the game is a bit too linear - particularly that you cannot travel back to areas from previous chapters - and that the ending feels contrived. The main plot is fine to me, though not outstanding (but I'm not a big plot person).

[@shakaj1525]

how long does it take to complete?

[@dnddetective]

@@shakaj1525 Roughly 25 hours if you want to do one playthrough. It depends on how much you do. But there are different outcomes to quests.

[@matthiasbreuer8710]

@@shakaj1525 Depends on your playstyle, really. For me Siege of Dragonspear takes a good 40-50 hours, but I play stealthy and slow. I'm also a completionist who explores every nook and cranny and does basically every single side quest. If you run a tanky party, I imagine it will be shorter, and the critical path alone can probably be done in a dozen hours (without entering speedrunning territory).

[@majorgear1021]

The writing is trash. Hard pass!

[@Raymondo500]

By the way are there mods that fix the story and companions removing the politics that don't belong and making the story coherent?

[@KarlWinterling]

My thoughts on this: 1. Siege of Dragonspear should be viewed as Beamdog's CRPG, not an indispensable part of Baldur's Gate or Forgotten Realms lore. 2. On the SJW stuff, I don't necessarily see what the deal is. A Lawful Good character can be SJW-ish. A character can be Lawful Good in a way that other characters strongly oppose and that makes the game interesting. Everyone would be Lawful Good if Lawful Good characters always made everyone happy. The writing/execution can be bad for a number of reasons, including prioritizing social issues too much. 3. Basically, some people like games as a means for escapism that lets you forget about social issues. Activists say, no, deciding you want escapism is actively taking a side by saying you will do nothing to help people on the lower end of some social issue. I think it's possible to enjoy "non-woke escapism" and support social justice causes, and the developers actually seem okay with that approach because it doesn't look like they're trying to stop anyone from playing as a Chaotic Evil character or something. 4. The game isn't for everyone and has its flaws. If that's what you spend your time worrying about then maybe you should reconsider your priorities. A game can be preachy on social justice issues and have good writing. What's at issue is more about execution and less about content.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Good comment. While I agree with most of what you say, I think that there are many other issues with the writing in this game other than it being too SJW oriented. Most of these other issues, though, are the result of the whole narrative of the game being built around SJW pillars (like the ones I mention in the video about Caelar Argent). When you sit at a meeting and say: " O.k. people, regardless of whom the player chooses as his/her main character, one of the most important characters HAS to be female, and that female HAS to be the one who saves the day. She also CAN'T be evil. The real villain has to be a MAN", you end up with a bad story. You say that "a game can be preachy on social issues and have good writing", and while that can be true... potentially, I suppose... that's not what's happening in Siege of Dragonspear. I've noticed that some of these SJW writers lean towards this formula: -Every male character is evil and/or incompetent, every female character is virtuous and/or competent. -A woman can't ever lose to a man in an argument or fight. -There has to be some plot, whether main or secondary, about how some socially disfavored group is discriminated by a ruling class. -In order to prove the point that acting in a gruff way, preferring an aggressive/military approach and physical strength should not be exclusive to males, we must flood our games with plate-clad females who speak in gruff voices and are physically imposing. Sometimes there aren't even ANY agreeable women. And that results in a bad story. Character development becomes crippled, the hero's journey is a no-go under these precepts and lore is reduced to shallow fan service. This is exactly what happens in Siege of Dragonspear. Writing is not only about the architecture of the story, it's also about dialogs, character development and descriptions, and those are unacceptably bad in Siege of Dragonspear too. There's even monumental inconsistencies that could've been easily avoided. I don't stand against social commentary in games. There was no shortage of social commentary in games made by Troika in the 2000's and some of those games are amongst my favorites. The problem is that these aren't Social Justice Warriors, they are Social Revenge Warriors, and that's why their creations are lot more about "sticking it to the man" than about inclusion, diversity and these other flags they wave incessantly.

[@KarlWinterling]

@@YeOldEntertainment Yeah, my point is that dealing with social oppression intelligently doesn't need to equate to bad writing (or stuff like every male character is a buffoon, no female character is sexy or agreeable, etc.). But it doesn't seem like there's anything inherently wrong about the *idea* behind Caelar Argent's character, only that the execution is a bit forced probably because a writer wanted to force in a clear message about social issues. There's a mod called Enhanced Edition Trilogy that combines all three games (you must already own the Enhanced Edition data files) and fixes the most glaring Dragonspear continuity issues.

[@learningeveryday8]

I loved the bg series from the original onwards but SOD was absolute cancer

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Cancer indeed.

[@peppermint7152]

The game's plot has some issues for sure. A lot of times I just didn't feel I had a dialogue option that fit my character; sometimes for no apparent reason, and often (especially toward the end) because my character had to act a certain way for the plot to move forward. The "real" villain was so screamingly obvious the entire time, and it was painful how everyone (including my own character) was forced to act like a complete dummy just so the "twist" could happen. I didn't feel the reason for the crusade's atrocities was established especially well. Caelar is presented as a nominally good-leaning character, and her end goal didn't seem to require any sort of conquest at all. You could argue that it was necessary to build sufficient manpower, but I'd have liked to have seen that addressed explicitly. Despite the game's flaws, however, I feel "because sjw lulz" is a gross oversimplification that undermines the integrity of the review. The inclusion of strong female characters is not a weakness, nor is "zealot that commits atrocities in the name of the greater good" a particularly uncommon archetype. The plot, on surface level, is fine. It's just executed very clumsily.

[@jh5220]

13:47 The reason your wands of fire weren’t stacking in this clip is because wands can’t stack. The little number you see on a wand isn’t how many wands you have, it’s how many charges that one wand has left. It’s more like a measure of durability for how long till that wand breaks/is no longer usable. It’s really confusing and shoddy game design but that’s at least an explanation for why those wands don’t stack.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Yes another commenter also pointed this out, thanks. It's not good user experience though, I wished they had used a different corner of the icon and a different color to distinguish amounts of items and amounts of use for a single item. But this also happened to me with flaming oils or some such other item.

[@rasdasa]

I tried to enjoy this, but it was so badly written and condescending.

[@Asianwaste]

The problem with Dragonspear is that they hired a pnp RPG expert to write it. Sounds okay for BG since it's derived from pnp, right? No because at the end of the day, BG is a crpg. PNP is paced almost inversely differently from a crpg and generally when writing and designing scenarios with a PNP, you paint with a much broader brush while a crpg requires a much more finite brush. It's not a surprise that in broad concept, SoDS sounds great but when viewed moment by moment, it was trash. PNP rpg makers know how to pace by broad event and need to leave the finite details to the DM. The craft does not make them proficient how to write things like dialog and characters or work in a structure that micro-quest one after another. I should add that I enjoyed Amber Scott's work on Pathfinder. Wrath of the Righteous was fun. But this does not make her qualified to write for a completely different medium.

[@alexblades5218]

I dont believe this game is at the same level as BG or its sequel. I'm not a fan of many of the new companions/characters/story (some of it is really grating) BUT I'm very grateful this game exists. The original games needed a bridge, and the fights and exploration in this entry are great. The fights especially are on a bigger scale than prior entries.

[@atempestrages5059]

Just finishing off my playthrough. Siege of Dragonspear was quite strong when you went off the beaten track. The Dwarves were great as was the Green Dragon and what followed. There have been plenty of criticisms, but I want to focus in on one- the "barrel" problem. At two distinct points in the game you are tasked with stopping enemies from attacking a barrel. If the barrel goes up, it takes you out (even from across the map) and you fail. This could have been interesting if there was an intelligent way to subvert it. As I was playing solo (which I should say, is on me. I don't especially require BG to be balanced for me when I'm the one pushing party members away), these sections were a huge headache, requiring me to implement a stack of pre-knowledge. The final section of Avernus also felt clumsy. Enemies that can see through invisibility? Fine. But they can also teleport to me instantly? Part of the teleport is buggy as enemies seem to engage their attack animations while still invisible. What this means is that my character, who focuses on not having a straight up fight with enemies winds up being dragged to such a fight. I never find the so-called "woke" writing too much. Personally I wish they had pushed our character into the middle of more difficult, challenging encounters. Reading between the lines- I think that was what people really chafed at, the lack of decision making off the back of those encounters. Which, when I consider my earlier points is the central problem of Siege of Dragonspear- the lack of *choice*. Also Caelar makes zero-sense. Lawful Stupid, not Lawful Good.

[@DJdeliverance]

Should i just skip this one and play bg2 cuz I want to beat bg2 before i get bg3 for the Xbox waiting on it to release so I'm wondering should i just skip this n come back with a new play character or something?or play it later if i care to cuz yeah there's a lot of reasons I'm in a rush to get to bg2. That's crazy how much better the map is now why couldn't they have used that version of it for the older games? That blows my mind like why huge missed opportunity to make the enhanced version well more enhanced n better n worth it oh well it was worth the 7$ i paid for it i think i got bg1&2 with all dlc and i got plane scape with it and ice wind dale all in 1 big bundle for like less then 20 bucks all 4 games great deal

[@DJdeliverance]

Cuz the only reason I play it is story is to hard n old to play on any other difficulty I ain't got time for that lol. My back log has to many massive games to play not enough time lol. But the 1 thing that makes me want to play this 1 is those massive battles having so many characters on screen feels epic but so far it isn't happening IDK if it's cuz I'm on the switch version? Or if I'm just not far enough I think I only managed to beat the 1at dungeon n lost all my ppl and I knew that was going to happen from a guide so I took every valuable item I could carry lol to give to my new ppl. Man it sucks I kissed beaolth cuz I liked him was funny I wanted to see if I couldn't keep him with me until the black spire lol that would a been funny to see him vs himself lol IDK how I even got him in my party or met him even lol I didn't know he was a new character until I looked into it lol. Cuz it's all my 1st play through the series as I never had a PC that could run it only consoles.

[@arjenlaan4103]

I'm probably too late for this to be relevant for you any longer, but, you don't necessarily need SoD for the sage, even in the best case it does feel like an intermission between BG1 and BG2. I could even imagine that one would play Tales of the Sword Coast, then Shadows of Amn. (and then Throne of Bhaal if thirst for your by then ridiculously epic characters doing ridiculously epic stuff). And after that, maybe in a second playthrough, do SoD as well. Except that BG3 is out now, so you would probably rather move to that then instead. So, much as I love SoD, I think skipping it would be a very reasonable choice in your case. As an aside and more in general about the video: I don't really see much of a "social agenda". Except maybe with Corwin, conversations with here get old fast enough for me to usually not include her into my party. There is some of it in Mizhena's sidequest thingy, but nothing to reasonably get upset about. Don't want her sob story? Then skip that sidequest. There, problem solved. I had to chuckle about Safana being included as an example in the video, too- Imho Safana is presented, in TotS, SoD, and even in her deeply disappointing cameo in SoA, as about the worst possible kind of "sensual woman" one could be. But Dynaheir is a really strong woman, Jaheira is strong, Viconia are strong, Liia Janath, Alyth Elendara, and even Carline are strong, and those are all presented as "properly fem" females. Although it still does kind of amuse me how the portrayal of strong women by female writers more often than not tends to be (and not just in SoD) a woman with masculine features. And also... everybody who is bothered by SoD being "too inclusive"... hoo boy, are y' all going to rage about BG3 ;-)

[@tricorn]

Didn't notice anything egregious SJW. Haters must be reeeally insecure or nitpick to see that. I personally like the story except for hephernan being so simple. Caylar comes off as self righteous as she should be. It's psychological phenomenon that happens to leaders who are surrounded by enablers and yes men. Though her character and motivations doesn't make much sense untill the very end, which is maybe a bit too late. The plot is a bit railroaded, which is a shame.

[@storyteller1309]

Dudes, play original Infinity Engine games. Don't give Beam Dog a dime. Better still - play Pillars of Eternity 1,2 (Second is especially great if you can tolerate the pirate theme).

[@robcampion9917]

I had to give them my money, I couldn't install my on disk versions so had to buy the EEs 😥

[@PredatorPeyami]

too late, i was not even avare meaning of sjw or what kind of people they are when i bought the game(6 or 7 years ago).

[@CrazyxEnigma]

Meh, Beamdog is irrelevant at this point anyway. BG3 wouldn't be anywhere near the GOTY gem it is with Beamdog at the helm so while SoD being better would've been nice not at the cost of WOTC deciding to not go with Larian.

[@safruddinaly5822]

To be honest as someone apathetic to everything's and thinking not every woke is bad as not every conservative value is decadence and wrong, i can say i enjoy playing the DLC, it's breathing new life to the gane and supplements some plot holes, for gameplay it's technically the same enchanted edition gameplay as base so yeah nothing special in it just normal, my biggest awareness is this campaigns is the Dungeon for me because the game is technically already exist for long time so they now what kinda dungeon the fan's want and the dev not disappointing in it, the enemy challenging not boring and the design is not mundane

[@ApocRNG]

Yeah I didn't see any SJW agenda. Safana was already a crazy girl in Baldur's Gate 1. So what if Caelar argent was also a very important character? She's the first Aasimar in the argent family bloodline for ages and managed to get an army together. Yes, she's going to be an important character, suck it up. the player character doesn't always have to be the top of the crop. And so what if she's a woman? Sarevok was a man, and baldur's gate 2 has multiple male and female bad guys if you include the throne of bhaal. I think this was just a case of the old anti-sjw movement overreacting because of the serious ramp up of actual real sjw intrusion into video games that had begun happening at the time. If anything, Siege of dragonspear would be offensive to SJW's nowadays for the sheer notion that it doesn't promote communism or make 50% of the characters black.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Safana might have been crazy in Baldur's Gate I, but her deal was that of the flirty oversexed rogue. She did not make any "males-are-bad" remarks as she did in this game (and that passage is clearly presented in the video). And the problem with Caelar is NOT that she is important NOR the fact that she is a woman. If that were the problem, I wouldn't have played Dragon Age and the Mass Effect Saga as a female character several times. If that were my problem, I wouldn't have given a 10 out of 10 to the writing in Shadowrun Hong Kong, a game in which every important character is female. The problem with the construction of Caelar's character is that it folllows a formula that has sadly become much too popular amongst activist writers: -Every male character is evil and/or incompetent, every female character is virtuous and/or competent. -A woman can't ever lose to a man in an argument or fight. -A woman can't be evil. If she is the villain, it must be because some male character manipulated/coerced her into doing it. And she most definitely ends up redeeming herself and being the heroine. -There has to be some plot, whether main or secondary, about how some socially disfavored group is discriminated by a ruling class. -In order to prove the point that acting in a gruff way, preferring an aggressive/military approach and physical strength are not exclusively "male things", they flood their games with plate-clad females who speak in gruff voices and are physically imposing. Sometimes there aren't even ANY agreeable women. And that results in a bad story. Character development becomes crippled, the hero's journey is a no-go under these precepts and lore is reduced to shallow fan service. This is exactly what happens in Siege of Dragonspear. I didn't know there was a controversy surrounding this game... I didn't even know it had been released in the year 2016. But when I was halfway through the game I thought "this can't be", and checked the internet. When I did, I came by some of the interviews and social media posts by the writer... and everything made sense... it became very clear what she was going for. Writing is not only about the architecture of the story, it's also about dialogs, character development and descriptions, and those are unacceptably bad in Siege of Dragonspear too. There's even monumental inconsistencies that could've been easily avoided. Every argument that supports the thesis that this is a bad piece of activist writing cannot be reduced to "you have a problem because she's female". No one has issues with an important character being female, no one has problems with a female being resourceful in a video game. And if someone does, he/she is part of a group that is outside the norm, an insignificant piece of the pie that's not even worth mentioning. You're asking a quasi-fictitious character to "go suck it".

[@TheSamuraijim87]

This was a really interesting review, and i couldn't help but share my thoughts on it. Regarding all the points save the social commentary part, i would agree. I think people vastly overreacted to the social issues being raised. I'm a DM for my D&D group, and i myself enjoy introducing a diverse range of characters. It brings variety and realism. But we need to approach characters like we are approaching people. Firstly, we need to bear in mind there is a way to do this - and that this was not done, was the failing of SoD. Many of these ham-handed character cameos, which do not advance the plot, could have been replaced with one or two, very well written, and well rounded characters, preferably companions. They would have shared their life stories, shared their hopes and dreams, in the same way that the original BGII companions did. Do you want to explain what life is like for a character of a given social group is in the Forgotten Realms? Absolutely fine. But tell me, and illustrate it in a way which is part of the narrative. Let *me* be part of *your* story. Is there persecution for your community? Is this to be the quest that seals our bond? What is the result? Do we draw steel to defend these persecuted people? Do we seek a diplomatic solution? Should the evil enchanter dominate the persecutors and force them to change? Does the evil Necromancer simply allow the persecutions since all they care about is having bodies to use? I don't know. It falls to the hero to make a choice and act according to their conscience. No character should be included simply to pad out a given demographic, and to look good. That's not how you make a realistic character. It's also disrespectful to the storyline and to the individual characters. Should these characters/actors be included any demographic considerations? Absolutely. But make them *real people* who have personalities. Don't make them "token gay" or "token ethnic group". That's just inclusion for points scoring, and it's disingenuous. Disney's "Black Panther" and "Falcon and the Winter Soldier" have really highlighted how this trend in media can be utterly tasteless and is also very widespread. Secondly and closely linked is that people reviewing SoD do not consider the *context* of the issues they are complaining about. There was much complaining about how certain societal groups were "forced". But think of it this way: in Mass Effect, or Dragon Age, the graphics allow for someone like a trans-man, or a trans-woman to appear on screen and you can be visually shown, not told. In Dragon Age: Inquisition, for example, we didn't need to get pointless dialogue from Krem, advising us he was Trans. It was visually obvious. We also got some priceless dialogue from Iron Bull, saying how "Krem's a great soldier, and he didn't give a shit that Krem had trouble pissing while standing up". That was phenomenal. "Show, don't tell" is always the superior method of storytelling. However, Siege of Dragonspear is an infinity engine game. That means that that characters (or any other variety of characters) appear as exactly the same kind of sprites as every other character. So, short of advising that this character is from a given persecuted community, is there a way to present these characters fairly, without some ham handed dialogue? See the initial point. It's doable. Thirdly, i think that it would be a mistake to say that there was no intolerance and persecution involved in the reception to this game. Even if such an intuitive and world relevant character was introduced, transphobia would still have emerged, and the sexism and intolerance in the fanbase would still have resultedmin complaints. A good counterpoint here is a character like Viconia. She is entirely ham-handed with her writing, and just as forceful. Half her dialogue is reinforcing her "drow-ness" and her "evil-ness" at every turn. But Viconia receives little in the way of complaint, whereas SoD did. My fifty cents.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

There is nothing you say here that contradicts any of the points made in the video. So I don't why you would say "Regarding all the points save the social commentary part, i would agree".

[@TheSamuraijim87]

@@YeOldEntertainment because, while i agree with the rest of the video, i don't agree with the extent to which the politics spoils the game. I was simply offering an alternative perspective, not trying to contradict your video.

[@1luarluar1]

the black line around the characters is permanent or you can remove it? I hate the look of it.

[@jm2270]

It is off by default. Some people enable it for unknown reasons. I agree with you, it looks horrible.

[@Eckister]

To be honest - I believe the writing on SoD was rather weak. Yes the core story is good and had its fair share of twists and turns, but there could have been SO much more, such as disabling the explosives on Coast Way Crossing and having an early encounter with Caelar's forces, then moving on to Boareskyr from the south and surrounding the siege forces to deny Caelar's forces the resources found in the fortress, instead of the straight, narrow line we were presented. There is a fair share of evil characters - Dorn, Viconia and Edwin could count a the "default" ones, then there is Baeloth (unless you killed him in BG1) and the party can be finished by adding M'Khiin Grubdoubler. Yes she is not evil in alignment and openly prefers a "good" party, but she takes your reputation down by 2 points, being a goblin and all. :o) Ultimately it is a worthwhile story, in my honest oppinion, but needs to be taken with several grains of salt.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

And that's why I said "none of the NEW characters are evil". Viconia, Edwin and Dorn were already in Baldur's Gate.

[@Eckister]

@@YeOldEntertainment ah I guess that includes Baeloth then as well, as he got included with the Black Pits, which the core BGEE gets "shipped" with. Ok, my apologies. Carry on. :o)

[@mbalazs3544]

I hues humanity is fedd up with agendas shaved down on their throats Rio: Marvel, Star wars,Doctor who, Harry potter Legacy (this game is bad for ots ending mainly for me, i drop it)

[@cadis4257]

In the end, I only got it becuase I'm a huge achievement hunter. Otherwise, its honestly a bad expansion. Way to linear it felt and really pushed you to be a good guy instead of being free to be evil. The story was nice in ideas, but bad in practice. Like come on, you expect me to believe This Crazy lady can convince a whole bunch of people to enter HELL itself and think they can win? Something the Gods themselves cant even do. Give me a break man. And Caelar herself is such a horrible character. All that death amd destruction for her Uncle? I'm going to need some build up on why this guy is so important to her and thus get why she would do everything she did to rescue him. Instead we get none of that as he's the big twist as the end. Doesn't work guys. This chick gives lawful-good a bad name. Not even mentioning all the other problems like with the new characters and just everything else I had issues with. But we'd be here all day if I said that stuff. So I'll just leave it here.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Exactly... amongst many other things.

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

How she could even be Lawful good is beyond me.

[@phantomvulpe791]

I'm surprised she isn't lawful evil

[@mr.battle20]

@@trazyntheinfinite9895 Caelar was a lawful good paladin on the verge of falling. And unless you talk her out of it, she ends up doing exactly that. (Yes, I know her character sheet says "Fighter". She's as much of a "fighter" as Mazzy is. Meaning, they're both paladins who weren't allowed to be paladins due to the ridiculous arbitrary race restrictions of 2nd edition)

[@vamremMX]

Everyone should ask themselves a question: Did someone ask for another chapter in Baldur's Gate Saga? The answer is no. So this is a fanfic mod. Not canonical. It's like someone who bought some Lord of the Rings rights, wanted to make Rings of Power canon, yes but no, it never will. xD

[@Damocles178]

Yeah I view it as something that either happened or it didn't as it feels like something your character can either choose to involve themselves in or not bother. There's nothing that feels particularly important for BG2. I don't even know what they were thinking with Irenicus choosing between you or Caelar Argent. Just doesn't fit his style. She's a mere Aasimar. You are a child of a god; not to mention the potential to become a god. It's a no brainer that Irenicus shouldn't waste time on Caelar especially when he himself has ambitions for godhood. The only thing that really made any sense at all was him maybe considering Saervok but Caelar? Nah.

[@sergiopitarch4364]

The problem for me is that this content was 100% unnecessary for the saga and main story, like you have no reason to even get involved or care about all the matter. There are unofficial mods that are more interesting than this full game. Next problem is... fetch quests, those quests that you are not obligated to do, but if you don't do them you lose a lot of gear. It's very boring, at least quests should be fun, but they are not. Other problem... the NPC quests and their continue blabbering and annoiances I couldn't care less about, I just want them to stfu tbh... it's the reason I make a full group myself, and only hire some NPC for their quest if it's not so long or annoying. Same with BG2. Yes, to get the items... And last but... ¿Why Belhifet again? I defeated him in IWD1, then I defeated his bastard son and daughter in IWD2... why to bring him again here? Feels unrelated and lacks inspiration to bring something new or interesting...

[@Damocles178]

I'm inclined to agree. While I did have fun with Dragonspear I will freely admit that it seems like something your character does not have to get involved in whatsoever. As for Irenicus even considering choosing between you and Caelar Argent. Why is that even a thing? She is just an Aasimar. You are literally the next best thing to a God and possess way more divine essence. That's much more befitting for his plans to ascend to godhood in BG2. Next to you she's nothing special. I swear the writers just looked for an excuse to overhype her even more.

[@morteniversen4981]

Hes name is not Sararock but Saravok.... JESUS!!!!!!!!!!

[@WikkeSchrandt]

It's neither Sararock nor Saravok, but Sarevok, actually

[@PredatorPeyami]

@@WikkeSchrandt no, Surevok

[@SlavaGen]

Thank you. I think I'll skip this game and import my char in BG2.

[@majorgear1021]

Wise choice!

[@dnaseb9214]

I just slay all the woke characters. I like that she is a lawful good enemy. Its great when I am playing as evil.

[@alexblades5218]

Increasing the framerate to 50 - 60 (30 is default) really makes the EEs and SOD more enjoyable (everything will move faster). It does muddle the scripting a little at 60 FPS but not enough to ruin the experience.

[@beng4151]

Politics do not belong in video games. Period. I'm here to rot my brain, not think.

[@whssy]

Nearing the end of my first playthrough at the moment. One thing you failed to mention is continuity problems FROM BG1 EE. To get Minsc and Jaheira in my BG1 party without bloating it with Dynaheir and Khalid, I "accidentally" let both characters die in combat so I could try some other characters in this playthrough. Imagine my surprise to find that someone had resurrected them at the start of SOD (and there was at one point Jaheiras in two different locations) and I couldn't be bothered to kill them off again. The story IS messy. The combat is too frequent IMHO and it becomes too much of a dungeon crawl. But those things aside, it is a far better game than "the Internet" had led me to believe. It is also a LOT bigger than I was expecting it to be.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

But I did mention that!! Around 11:04 I say almost word for word what you just wrote.

[@KesariForMugen]

I pirated every main stream D&D video game/comic/Pdf after this "woke" debacle.

[@PredatorPeyami]

still cant stand for them, even for free.

[@mr.battle20]

I didn't play this until they patched the woke bullshit and the bugs out. The experience? It was ... okay. It didn't fit in the BG saga at all, and should've been its own story. As its own story, it was decent enough. I recall reading about the character of Caelar Argent and how she was a "Mary Sue". When I actually played this, I was baffled. Caelar wasn't a Mary Sue at all. In fact, she was a massive screwup who forced a "crusade" in order to fix her own mistake. Her pride and hubris blinded her to the fact that her cause wasn't a righteous one in the least, and she let a devil-worshiping cultist stroke her ego and cloud her mind. If anything, she was the Mary Sue trope turned on its head. Yes, her devotees and followers all worshiped her with a religious fervor, but they intentionally ignored the fact that their army was displacing the citizenry of Baldur's Gate and its surrounding regions, causing the refugee crisis. The refugee crisis was another point. I have the feeling that the developers had intended for this to be some manner of commentary about the "evils" of the U.S. government and the ever-present border crisis. Instead, they made the complete OPPOSITE point. A swath of foreigners pushing through the region sparked the crisis in SoD, and the actual legal residents were displaced. This wasn't a case of a bunch of people trying to illegally force their way into the region. These were taxpayers who needed emergency assistance from THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT. It was the foreigners who caused the crisis, not the refugee citizenry. In attempting to virtue-signal, the developers literally condemned illegal immigration. Regarding the gender fluid priest: this was such a minor character that I'm not even sure why they bothered to include it at all. First of all, the whole idea is absurd for the Forgotten Realms setting, where high magic reigns. Plenty of magic exists where people can ACTUALLY change their gender. They don't have to "identify" with anything; they can just get it done. Yes, such magic was probably prohibitively expensive for a commoner, but the character in question was hardly a peasant. Secondly, the character was a "blink and you'll miss it" one. Basically just a priest set up to provide basic temple services. They're a dime a dozen throughout the saga. There's nothing directing you to the character, so you might not even encounter him at all. Even if you do, unless you bother asking personal questions about his life, you will never know they're meant to be ... whatever they think they are. I think the thing that probably pissed people off the most was using well-established and beloved characters like Minsc as a mouthpiece to spew a bunch of SJW propaganda. Fans rightly balked at this, and I'm glad they patched most of it out. As far as Safana goes, yes they changed her personality around. No, I didn't particularly care because Safana sucks and I never used her in the original game. At all.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

100% spot on.

[@desdicadoric]

I completely despised Dragonspear, not Baldur’s gate in the slightest, other than in graphics. Poorly written and not fun.

[@phantomvulpe791]

The funny thing is there really isn't any part doing this. It's just...there. like what's the fucking point?

[@idnyftw]

didn't really mind the "sjw crap", it all kind of reminds me of the old mods anyway so I've already built up an immunity but I do wish they didn't turn caelar into a fight-happy idiot, it's like she could've accomplished her mission by just recruiting my character instead of waging war with half of the sword coast, and when I point it out during her dumb attempts at parley she went all "you're just a dumb bhaalspawn what do you know about my struggle?" oh and what actually grinds my gears quite a bit is they throw in way too many of these "baby versions" of high-level encounters and scenarios to up the stakes, in this regard I feel the TOTSC adventures were more suitable for characters of around level 8-11

[@oodo2908]

The writing is really bad. I could get over that if the humour was good, but there is no humour at all. I could get over that if the gameplay was good, but there isn't much to the dungeon crawling. They added a nice diversity of items but the way they function doesn't fit the original game's style. For a purist, this game is not worth it. At the time I pre-purchased I didn't know what 'woke' was. After playing SoD I did. Make a sloppy story, remove witty humour, and insert racism/gender/social issues. I sure learned what 'woke' was after that and I wanted my money back, but didn't complain.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

I agree with you 80%, maybe because I am not a purist. But this quote 100% describes my experience with the controversy about the writing in this game --> " At the time I pre-purchased I didn't know what 'woke' was. After playing SoD I did." I do think the gameplay was good. Really good actually. But the story and its lore is completely disruptive of the experience to the point of making it painful to play through the game. I was cringing and rolling my eyes at every dialogue and narration.

[@oodo2908]

@@YeOldEntertainment There's weird stuff in there, too. Did you notice the Masonic room in the Bhaal (Satanic) cult's temple? Had the pillars and the star on the checkered floor. Wild dude. If I were to play through a second time I would notice more, but the first time was painful enough. I only play the original games and I ignore the new characters. There must be all kinds of accurate Satanic stuff if you play through the Orc's quests. What did you do with the wild mage in the tower? I got so fed up with her screaming I just whacked her.

[@oodo2908]

@@YeOldEntertainment I forgot to add, even the villain, silver lady who wants to save her uncle from hell, is a retardation of Joan of Arc. It's a spit on Christianity. They made her dumb on purpose.

[@soanvig]

Sarevok, not Savarok :p

[@pharaun159]

Honestly the story of siege sucked, the ai was actually worse (looking at you enemies that run straight at your stealthed character) and the woke bullshit just sealed the deal. I made it through this campaign once. I have hundreds of hours in the originals.

[@themediumcheese]

I didn't like this dlc over all but the supposed "sjw" stuff was overblown by weird chud youtubers who took offense at the inclusion of one trans character (who isn't even a main character, they're a "blink and you'll miss it" side character). The companions were mostly pretty bad but I did enjoy that they gave some of the party members from the first game more personality, even if their personalities weren't exactly original.

[@thomasdoubting]

BG 1 was full of grate femal charachters, and only 2 groawles! 👧

[@robinmattheussen2395]

The entire drama around the "activist agenda" was a load of bull in my opinion. That wasn't the issue. The game just has terrible writing all-around, not just in a few specific issue some people tried to cherrypick. In fact I didn't even remember where the "activist" dialogue in the game was supposed to take place after finishing the game. The issues with the writing go *way* beyond the perceived slights that were highlighted in the news. Aside from a few spots where you can see what the game was trying to do, the overall larger narrative of this entire expansion simply does not work, at all. You know your plot sucks when the vast majority of the initial conflict comes from the fact that two protagonists simply don't talk to each other. For some reason, throughout most of the game, Caelar refuses to explain what her entire objective is, even when you meet face to face. It's bad writing 101. On top of that, the ultralinear gameplay and very weak combat encounter design just turn this into an expansion that you can safely skip. It adds very little to the core games IMO. While I was skeptical from the beginning, I ended up playing the game because I was still open to the idea of an "interquel", and I was willing to give the devs a chance. But honestly, most of the game ended up ranging from mediocre to outright bad. It often feels like the devs couldn't decide whether they wanted this to be an absolute epic game in the saga, or just a short, lean-and-mean side-story. It ends up just flailing about, unsure what to do with itself. I strongly believe that Beamdog just didn't have the right talent in-house to full something like this off, and the goalpost was probably shifted several times during development, which doesn't help either.

[@jasonmuller1199]

Siege of dragonspear is definitely my least favorite in the series but I'm still happy it exists more baldur's gate is always going to be a good thing

[@michaellittlefield6906]

I love Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate II, and Icewind Dale but I just can't seem to force myself to play this game. Everytime I try I can barely get into it before the writing annoys me to the point where I can't play anymore.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

I understand the feeling. It's got awesome game play but yes... the writing... is not easy to overlook.

[@rubyismycatman7335]

Hey if developers want to to make an SJW agenda game thats cool just as if two people of the same sex really love each other.....thats also cool. But if you personally want to go to a gay bar have a same sex relationship blah blah blah thats just great but im not going to go with you and for the same reason i never bought this game because what the writer thought we all wanted the gay factor shoved in our faces and some of us dont so i like it when a game has an SJW tag on it so i can avoid it frankly im so bored by sexually divergant characters in games films and in real life lol

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Yup. That's exactly it.

[@butHomeisNowhere___]

Great stuff. The neckbeards who refuse to play this game because of some hamfisted representation are absurd. There are hamfisted straight male stereotypes all throughout gaming and no one complains. Anyways, I like how the story ties the first and second game together but the overall baddie in this game is really lacking in critical thought. Like, you're gonna go to hell, eh? Hows that worked for anyone in the past? (According to lore) And isn't she an Aasimar or something? So she should know better...

[@matternicuss]

I think it’s completely understandable that someone would be put off by that. I’m fairly progressive, but I absolutely hate it when writers shoehorn their political opinions where they don’t belong. It’s one thing if it’s a completely original creation, and in the right hands it can lead to some engaging discourse (Bioshock being a superlative example). But when done tastelessly, especially in an existing franchise, it almost always ends up feeling cheap and condescending. A big part of Baldur’s Gate’s appeal has always been its storytelling, so to almost completely botch that is a solid reason for fans to steer clear.

[@SilortheBlade]

I've not played dragonspear and probably won't get around it it, but I HIGHLY doubt it is piling more stones on the other side as you say. Often when a group has a privilege they begin to see equality as persecution. I don't think this is conscious on your part base don the other videos I have seen, but I suspect that is clouding your judgement. That said I respect you didn't let your dislike of social commentary to over ride your views of the game. It makes me think I might be worth playing.

[@majorgear1021]

It’s definitely piling stones on one side.

[@phantomvulpe791]

Some of my friends asked if there's any point playing this and I say...no...there is not. There's seriously no point to importing this game to 2 as there's seriously no change at all. It's just...there. you're better off 100% 1 to import it for 2 than suffer this gods awful game. For the love of Tymora I have never suffered so much from this in my fucking life.

[@jimmym3352]

It wasn't that bad. But I admit I never finished it. There seemed to be little point. It seemed to be just leading you from place to place and you seemed to have little impact on events. Especially since the lore from BG1 to BG2 has to remain relatively intact.

[@Dragon_Lair]

I find that there is one good point. My Dark Moon Monk started BG2 at level 9 instead of 7, and I kept a good magic sword.

[@nmpltleopardi]

Siege of DragonShapiro. Duh - it's in the title. Clearly not SJW propaganda. Just SnEEd but if you really, really have to Chuck put on a wood leg over your stump, adjust your tricorn and parrot and go yaaaaâarrrggghhhhhhh

[@eveechoes5024]

So much better that the stupid BG III completly fucked by Larian

[@momashi69]

Too many spoilers! Too many story details!

[@PredatorPeyami]

he saves you from playing it.

[@majorgear1021]

Wahhhhhhh! Woe is me!