Baldur's Gate 2 review: Does Throne of Bhaal take the best rpg of all time to the next level?

[@TheBlackLightMan]

My sorcerer felt phenomenal at this point, the pinnacle of cosmic power, using wish to get my spell slots back because of my high wisdom.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Combat wise is fun. And yes... I had two magic users in my party for the final fight and if it hadn't been for "Wish" I've would've spent days trying to defeat Melissan

[@pierrez8570]

While I do agree on some of your points - particularly that Throne of Bhaal is more combat-focused than were the previous games, and that some parts feel rushed or underwhelming (the whole Sendai enclave to me is the most forgettable part: it's a succession of combats), I also think you are being unfair to the expansion as you fail to consider one point that, in my opinion, influences the whole design of the game: scope. At the beginning of Baldur's Gate 1 you are a novice adventurer who can die to a wolf or a kobold. At the conclusion of Shadows of Amn you have climbed the ranks much above mere mortals; you rival in power with the most dangerous creatures of the Realms (dragons and even the most powerful demons fall to Gorion's Ward); your actions have potential to affect the fate of many countries all at once. The idea of ToB is to be a conclusion to the Bhaalspawn saga, with the implicit promise (Sarevok was right), that there is a way to ascend to godhood. This means you're essentially a freaking demi-god during the events of ToB, and the game is supposed to reflect that. While you lose the sense of adventuring, it's normal. You're not a simple adventurer anymore. You'd expect a demi-god to be able to travel however they want and through the places (hence the pocket plane). You expect a demi-god to be at least on talking terms with proper gods, which you do directly (with Cyric, in a pocket plane challenge) or indirectly through the Solar: Solars in the Forgotten Realms are essentially archangels. Side note: the Solar you talk to is not an "omnipotent being", on the final challenge of the Throne of Bhaal plane before taking on Melyssan for the last time, you take out a "Fallen Solar", a Solar gone rogue (one of such was in later editions Zariel who became an Archduchess of Hells, additional insight on the level of power the player character has reached). Throne of Bhaal is supposed to feel epic in scale and not mundane, because your character is not mundane anymore. It would have felt underwhelming to just travel from place to place and have to talk with random dudes to advance the plot. It's unfortunate that you encounter bugs, I suppose those might come from the EE - never encountered any myself. Also I'm not sure about your point on sound design but you could have said a word about the absolutely epic music that wraps the series. I would recommend you try out the Ascension mod by David Gaider that adds some content that was cut from the original game. Mostly discussions with Sarevok and increased difficulty for some of the iconic fights. The again ToB might not be for everyone, but it is the perfect conclusion to the Bhaalspawn saga because it respects what the story is about when you finish Shadows of Amn.

[@Elnis888]

The two times I've played through "Baldur's Gate" I and II, this expansion has been my favorite part of the experience. I always think of it as "Baldur's Gate III" because, well, it's basically a whole game rather than just an expansion. I felt that it, overall, had a more dynamic pace and that the story - though not quite as engaging as earlier installments - was more to the point without too many tangents. The settings seemed more exciting to me than in earlier parts of the game, and the combat seemed more fun. But, hey, to each their own.

[@Fernando-fh2um]

I mostly agree with your view on ToB, the story is super squeezed into a not-very long expansion pack, the mechanics of the pocket plane are bullshit and convinient, everything revolves around fights that, by the way are hard as nails, and of course feel like a test on the mechanics and spells, but aside all that can (and should) be critized there's a very important and redeeming aspect of this game, and it's the power trip: after two games, and hours upon hours of looting coins, fighting kobolds, wolves, thieves to dragons, beholders and vampires getting to cast 9lvl spells and break the game in countless ways is SO MUCH FUN! the way I see ToB is like a laboratory where you test spells and abilities and items just for the fun of it, somewhat like cheatcodes and master the art of solving puzzles with every option at your disposal. To be fair it doesn't live up to SoA in therms of quality, story and overall care and effort, it's more like an obstacle course to prove you've earned your god status. Love to see you tackle these games and review them, please keep up the amazing work!

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Yep. You pretty much nail the experience. I should've talked a little more about those end-game skills and spells, they are indeed fun to use. It is sad that you have to wait that long to take advantage of your character's full potential.

[@Vic-cf7lm]

The reason why Amelyssan decides to keep bhaalspawns in Saradush and protect them, has actually a good justification : we know that Bhaal gives Amelyssan the ability to gain more and more power when bhaalspawns die, in order to have a sufficient amount of that divine power to resurrect him when the time where all bhaalspawns are dead comes. So Amelyssan keeps them in Saradush, because she expects Yaga-Shura to kill all of them if he takes the city after its siege. And this is what happens. But on most of your points, I completely agree with you.

[@frostbyte11]

Man great video. I've been binging your videos bit by bit over the last 3 weeks. Keep up the awesome work.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Thanks man! It's comments likes this that keep me going. thanks.

[@dimitrisc]

I agree with the points you made concerning the "presenting your backstory as exposition by a deus ex machina", it could have been made in a better way, maybe starting from shadows of amn even. Also, melissan for me was by far the weakest point of ToB, it was obvious from the first moment you meet her that she is the final boss, and not being able to call her out or do anything about it was and is very annoying, and a big miss in storytelling. Other than that however, I found the rest of ToB to be the ending to the saga that I wanted. In my mind, I don't find the points you made about the pocket plane and resting annoying, if anything they were correct additions. The reason for this is that at this point in the story, you are essentially a demigod, on the brink of becoming a full-fledged god, so some aspects of mortality are not of concern to you, like resting, or item bag capacity. Also, you don't need to build up your fellow bhaalspawn antagonists like sarevok or irenicus. You are, as I said before, a demigod, not a human. You have built up yourself to a point where you don't need to scheme your way into defeating them, you just have to overpower them and prove that you deserve to be a god. ToB for me is a power fantasy, but a well deserved one. You went through hell to gain the powers you have (from BG1 to SoD to BG2 to watcher's keep), and now you get to enjoy it. Maybe, if I see it from a narrative perspective, I may agree with some of your points. But when I see it from the eyes of the MC (and it IS a role-playing game in the end), in ToB, I don't see myself as a human anymore, but as a god, and I try to adopt a "god's way of thinking".

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Thanks for leaving a comment, mate.

[@BaranZenon]

This also makes one of the endings so freaking awesome. Like on the very peak, when you are just about ascend to godhood you can still say "Nah, I prefer my fleshy, mortaly bits, thank you very much" and it works so great. Like through the whole expansion player character was a slave to the fate and legacy of Bhaal. But after that the character is free. I like to imaging after the final battle and picking mortality instead of godhood, the Bhaalspawn was sitting on the edge of a cliff, looking at the sunset with all teammates that made through of all of this. And then one of the mates asks: - So, what now? - What do you mean? Now we can start our very own adventure! And the credits roll.

[@ampatrao]

@@BaranZenon I believe both TSR and Wizards of the Coast consider this the canonical ending.

[@chuckwood3426]

About the Solar in the Planar Pocket that tells you about stuff. It was probably built like that because originally Throne of Baal was supposed to be Baldurs Gate 3. But BG2 did not sell nearly as well as the publisher had hoped for. So the developers who had already started on Throne of Baal had to scale it down until it was the size of an expansion pack instead. Thus many things, including the start feeling rushed.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

It feels like an obvious addition to wrap things up and call it a day. Baldur's Gate II deserved more I think.

[@waltjames407]

My Biggest gripe about ToB is the long, long, LONG dialogs you have to click through before all of the boss fights, with no chance to save between the dialog and the actual fight, so every time you have to re-do a fight, you have to click through all the dialog. Again.

[@kkbaby30]

Is this just a troll? I mean, you just got dragged to the Abyss during your Irenicus battle (I think that visit creates the pocket plane, although the devs erroneously referred to it existing in the 9 hells during Shadows of Amn), so you can access it once the prophecy begins drawing to a close. It's the series of events that actually gives you an advantage over the other Bhaalspawn and it's all thanks to suffering through Irenicus' machinations. It's streamlined because you really have no more random adventuring left. At this point, you're in the end game and ready to overcome the most powerful of your siblings, not wander around running errands for random villagers. I really couldn't see this expansion unfolding any other way. Also, I do play the Sword Coast Strategems/Ascension/ Tweaks mods which add so much to the game, but even without these, I never felt let down on my first playthrough. It was such an epic ending to one of the best games I've ever played. I actually thought BG3 would be a continuation of your early journey into godhood, probably starting as a lesser power and creating an avatar. You could've promoted your own worship through spreading your faith with a few of your old companions and maybe defended your plane against some other gods. It could've been glorious.

[@awordabout...3061]

I think BG3 had to be different, partly because they were forced to use modern rulesets, but also largely because there's nowhere left to escalate the game and remain relatable. When you can bitchslap a witch with almost all of the power of a god, what's another dragon?

[@MM-dm4xj]

Bhaal was lawful evil- so the erroneous part is to locate the pocket plane on the abyss.

[@Metalhammer1993]

Honestly ToB just made Bg2 SoA richer. The story of ToB is not good imho and yeah it is just the bro who wants to swap hands. But as the high level abilities it adds are accessible in SoA given you get high enough in level just makes solo runs addictive. I remember my wizard/cleric somewhat struggling early game but the minute I hit the underdark aka chapter five it was like a hurricane unleashed! Just because of the insane magical power I had access too. Only drawback of HLA spells is they are added to your spells of your highest level so there is pretty much no reason to use 7th level cleric or 9th level wizard spells apart from polymorph and timestop for cheaters. (And yes that's how I preserved my sanity through ToB's second/end of first chapter. I just used these two spells to move around the whole plot of that "chapter". Thank God even the EE doesn't fix the oversight that allows this)

[@TheBoxingCannabyte]

I made a custom thief/kensai and am loving it! One of if not my favorite game of all time. Haven't beaten the expansion in 20 years. Thanks for the video!

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Thanks for the comment. The core game is one of my favorite games of all time.

[@finstor3386]

I am playing through BG1 now and having a great time. I plan to play the DLC's and BG2 when I'm done. I can barely remember playing them 20yrs ago or whatever it was. The only thing I really remember is BG1 came in like a 12 disc pack and took hours to install chanaging discs lol. I downloaded the entire series and had it all installed in like 5m. I do remember that I enjoyed BG1 more than BG2 but loved them both. BG2 had much better combat to my recollection and BG1 had the story, thats just the general memories I have. Oh and that BG2 was more of a counter type combat, where you had to know what spells to use to counteract the more powerful enemies and it took a lot of experimenting.

[@ZainNL]

While I do agree with your movie, I feel the combat is a natural result of where your character is at that particular point. A level +-25 character is considered a legend or more in DnD, while here we are cranking out lvl30 easily, making us literal gods. And what do you need to battle gods? Well if you don't have Batman, you need other gods.. And sadly that makes fights either very easy, or ridiculously hard.. Still, the entire Bhaal saga is something I will always carry with me :)

[@iggybe]

Is that Tides from Nebula at the beginning? :D BTW Awesome videos about the Bioware games.

[@matthewsmithson2174]

I love this game….. I’m big on combat in dnd

[@Mannetasi]

I can agree that ToB has the worst story of the BG games(SoD doesn't count because it's worse imo) but from what i'v heard Throne of Bhaal was apparently gonna be a standalone Game but Biowares contract with "Wizards of the Sword Coast" ran out or something and they had to rush the game... or something. In the end i still love Throne of Bhaal and personally i would give it a 8 Rating but that's just me :)

[@OliviaBurzlaff]

You forgot to mention the funniest moment in the series when the quest is below your character level, you hire another party to get the eye of the beholder, they attack you, die, and reload the game.

[@BaranZenon]

Meta inside a meta. We need to go deeper.

[@majorgear1021]

How does the other party reload your game? I’m confused.

[@ved2360]

@@majorgear1021 They don't. It's a cutscene where they attack your MC, he transforms into the Slayer and kills them. They "reload," fade transition to black and reset their conversation with you and give you the requested item for the fetch quest you gave them instead of trying to attack your party.

[@Kanas83]

I know you are avoiding spoilers but even as pure fighter the secret companion is still a killing machine

[@JWSoul]

I enjoyed it for it's difficulty when i was young.

[@callsignfatbeard2637]

Can’t disagree more with most of your critiques here. This is as good an ending as we were gonna get barring a whole game being made in its place. You keep bringing up how the expansion seems like an excuse to take you from one fight to the next. It is. This is it, the final confrontation of the bhaalspawn that’s been prophesied from literally your first steps in candlekeep as the prophecy of alaundo was spoken at the very beginning of the first game. Chaos is being sown in their passing now. The iron crisis is over and done, your soul is yours again. Now it’s time for the remaining essence of bhaal to tear itself apart. That calls for several big battles, and throne of bhaal delivers handily there. I also couldn’t believe you defended the atrocious inventory management from the original games and disliked the pocket plane. The undisputed worst part of baldur’s gate is how tedious and aggravating managing all your loot is. It gets more manageable after you get a bag of holding and other various containers, but it’s still not what I’d call fun or anything. Having a warehouse of sorts to hold things you want but have no use for in the moment, and having it be readily accessible for the player as they need it is not a negative. It doesn’t add or detract from difficulty, it merely adds a convenience. If encounters are hard in your game because you made it difficult for players to choose which items they keep because of limited space, then that difficulty is ultimately artificial and pointless in my opinion. Be difficult with enemy skills and tactics, not that I can’t hold enough ammo or some other piece of equipment. You’re a demigod creeping ever closer to legitimate godhood. I don’t mind the player character having access to godly places and powers. To me it always felt like the first game and SoA developed who your character was. You had tons of time to create their personality through the decisions you made and the quests you chose to undertake or to ignore. Now in the grand finale, it’s more about that person you created struggling to survive and be the last one standing in a melee of demigods . And then once you survive, now what? Do you choose to cast aside your godhood and birthright and live as a mortal with the companions you’ve spent all this time? Or do you ascend the throne of bhaal and claim your divinity for your own. It’s an awesome finale that absolutely closes the door on the bhaalspawn saga in a satisfying way. Not as heavy on the role playing, but you’ve just done 150-300 hours of character building prior to this. Now it’s time to dive into the divine rumble and earn your place in a pantheon…or not.

[@robertcampbell6349]

ToB is very good. It's a linear adventure. I know SoA is also linear, but the large number of side quests made it feel more free form.

[@Sampo186]

What is that game at 1:00?after titan quest.i didn't recognize that. Have to ask since dnd games are mostly my favorite. I just started doing my first playthrough on BG1. Good game so far.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

That's Mask of the Betrayer. An expansion for Neverwinter Nights 2. (Notice that also mention it when I say: "some expansions turn the core game on its ear"... Mask of the Betrayer very much does that.

[@Sampo186]

@@YeOldEntertainment Thanks. Neverwinter Nights 2 is on my playlist.

[@CCoyle-fs3ym]

I just finished this myself yesterday, I agree with you %100, I found the last fight particularly tiresome. It took me a year getting through all the games and would say the second game is the best by far, Irenicus was a villain I really wanted to defeat, but Throne of Bhaal left me feeling somewhat detached from it. Keep the great reviews👍

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Thanks for the comment man! I made this review fearing that I might be the only one who's not crazy about throne of Bhaal. I think "detached" is the word yes. And yes... I agree that Baldur's Gate 2 is the best of the saga by far.

[@scottgrasser9475]

@@YeOldEntertainment the expansion feels very unbaulders gateish its mostly just fight after fight with such OP powers the tactics are largely not there

[@danbourlotos5188]

I was pretty disappointed with TOB when this came out, and still think it is the weakest of the entire series (although SoD is next in line). Low in RPing, (at the time) VERY hard combat and a confusing amount of end-game feats - some of which were just ridiculous bad or ridiculous good. Also, the bag of holding that you acquire in this is actually coded differently than the one you find in Spellhold in BG2 - it stacks items. I saved every piece of loot from every fodder enemy in the game, stacked them, and sold them all at once to eliminate the diminishing sale price issue. Wound up with over a million gold by the time I was done. There were some very goofy parts that although amusing, break the real feeling of the expansion: The Big Metal Unit made of the gold, silver and bronze pantaloons (WHICH YOU CANNOT WALK THROUGH DOORWAYS WITH) and the section in Abazigal's lair where you find another adventurer party who tries to kill you, fails and "reloads save game" immediately come to mind. For such a dour mood that the expansion had, these just felt out of place. Honestly, I haven't played it unmodded in a while and recommend the Ascension mod to everyone I talk to. I found many of the epilogues for the characters fitting, if heartbreaking (LOOKING AT YOU VICONIA) and was glad for some closure to the Bhaalspawn saga. Does it hold a candle to BG1, TotSC or BG2? No, but that is a DAMN high bar to set.

[@drgrindxl]

Nice work... But No single word about the music from ToB?

[@alexandrelesimple1645]

you're harsh, it was not really made to be an other baldur's gate, it was made to conclude the serie... ok it has its default, but to me it was what i wanted for the end of the best rpg of all time... that said, damn you're right about this stupid Melissandre, after saradush it is so clear that she is not on your side...

[@YeOldEntertainment]

When the core game is an epic timeless classic that comes full circle story-wise... It is tricky to make an expansion to take things further. I don't think they pulled it off... again... not a bad expansion, not a good expansion, but Baldur's Gate 2 deserved better I think.

[@stevequincy388]

Yeah I love BG and BG2, but TOB is a bit of a slog, I've played through it only twice and I think that's good. I do really enjoy the "slides" at the end telling you the fate of each of your companions though. I also loved redeeming the secret companion who ended up fighting by my side, that was really cool I thought.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Yup. 100% agree.

[@Forestcult]

I want to first shout out how correct you are about every criticism in this video, each one being spot on, with the exception of the combat. Combat with epic level characters can be fun, sure, but armor class goes out the window completely in Throne of Bhaal. Now, you need 1-2 healers wasting spell slots solely on healing magic alone to get through most fights, or you chug potions round after round because melee is a can’t miss game verses everything you end up fighting. It doesn’t help that the main feature of most monsters, especially later in, is immunity all sorts of damage types, making hack and slash truly the best option for not completely wasting your time with even standard fights with non-boss characters. I’ve seen player guides recommending full fighter-type teams for playing ToB, and that’s just sad. At least that’s been my take-away as a longtime fan of the series, definitely not an open-shut case, and please keep on making these awesome videos!

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Thanks for your comment man! It's comments like this that keep me going. As for the combat. I find it curious that my experience was EXACTLY how you describe it. I had Cernd and Jaheira healing my tank non-stop as though this were some five-man instance in World of Warcraft. And getting to point in a boss fight in which magic could be of any use (damage-wise) was a pain. But that didn't bother me too much. I took as a departure from the combat in the core game, an additional challenge, and something that forced me into wrapping my head around something new that made me rethink my tactics.

[@DinkSmalwood]

While I do agree that AC goes out the window, I can't for the life of me imagine who would recommend a full fighter party. Try playing with mages instead, Stoneskin and Pfmw don't care about your ac, and by that point mages are more akin to gods than men.

[@Forestcult]

@@DinkSmalwood yeah honestly I don’t know if I was looking at some forum for something like a speed run or not, and some of the melee weapons, to their credit, are pretty lethal once you get past the opponent’s spell protections. But hey, it’s not the game’s fault really, at some point making AC irrelevant was something that D&D had written into the rules purposely.

[@fausto6354]

Only thing I remember about the expansion is Aerie giving birth, and I still have doubt that it's even in the expansion

[@themouselessdev8655]

I need a personal pocket plane when I'm going to be a god. It makes sense.

[@Dndditches]

As someone who loved combat, I liked it. The improvements new skills and new gear were amazing.

[@snakeplissken111]

Seriously? TOB was a fairly rushed and linear hack&slash experience even when it was released. It's only shining grace is how the ending wraps everything up nicely. The story is simplistic even when compared to Icewind Dale (though IWD is a bit underrated in that regard, for TOB it's basically: KILL THE FIVE, CHECKLIST material). There's virtually no exploration anymore to speak of. The entire thing is just an excuse to throw high level content (and enemy mobs) at the player in an attempt to one-up the game yet another time. Its modern reputation amongst some as a lesser BG was well deserved when it was released already. I guess it's still better than the original campaign shipping with NWN though (though even that, individually, had actually one or two interesting quests, like the that town/castle frozen in time). It's kinda sad though as this should have been a trilogy proper. In particular if you consider that the entirety of SoA's plot is sort of a distraction from the series main plot. Which is all about the Bhaal prophecy and its conclusion, wrapped up in a hurry in this hack&slash expansion..

[@yenlabuda9289]

Well, I wouldn't say the Pocket plane was a bullshit mechanic. I think you need to consider fact how old the game is. I remember back in the day when the ToB was new that this was actually quite an original take on it. And there is another thing. By DnD measures the level you are ending at in SoA is already on the epic side of things. You're basically a half-god only by your level. And this doesn't consider fact that you have an actual claim to godship. Hence the pocket plane makes sense imo. The ToB is I believe still the only expansion I'm genuinely proud I finished without cheese or cheats.

[@Banefane]

A BG3 should have been made and not an expansion. Also music is 10/10!

[@YeOldEntertainment]

O hell yeah. You are right about the music. I should've mentioned that in the review. The music is somewhere around 10/10 (maybe not quite, put pretty pretty darn close). Hands down the best part of the expansion.

[@chuckwood3426]

It was actually intended to be BG3. But BG2 did not sell nearly as well as the publisher had hoped for. The developer had at that point already started development and they did not wish to throw away what had already been produced. So they shortened the scope and made it in to an expansion pack instead.

[@Banefane]

@@chuckwood3426 Are there official reading materials for the third part (e.g. art style, concept)? I want to dig in and know more and see what could have been.

[@7dayspking]

Black isle were making a Baldur's gate 3 (the black hound), it was nearly finished apparently and planned for a late 2003-2004 release and the start of a new trilogy of Baldur's gate games. Interplay decided to extend their D&D license on consoles instead of PC though, cancelling BG3 before it's planned launch and pushing Black isle onto the console hack'n slash game Dark alliance 2.

[@LarsOfTheMohicans]

My only gripe with Throne of Bhaal is how underwhelming the final boss feels. Oooooh, a spooky evil witch. So many of the main antagonists felt a lot more interesting by comparison, especially Irenicus. Heck, even her portrait feels off, like it was a remnant from a beta version of the game. Aside from that, I haven't much to whine about.

[@joups]

baldur's gate 1 and 2 are my favourite RPGs of all time. Can't say the same about ToB. It's painfully linear and lacks that charm. The Watcher's keep is a cool place to loot, but i'm not a fan of it. The bhaalspawn quests are terrible

[@Ravenoustoxic]

Thank you for saving me my time. I will stop playing ToB after I beaten the shadows of amn.

[@Samurai-no4wu]

I know it's a 2 years old, but what game is that on 6:26?

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Dragon Age: Origins

[@yammahopper]

Endless power creep. It had its moments, but not enough I want to replay it. As a table top gamer, I also find DnD much more playable in the mid levels than very low or very high. ymmv

[@Jeff-hn8iy]

ToB should have been a third game. But I still enjoyed it, as I didn't want BG2 to end. The final boss was utter BS though. I just couldn't beat it, and had to change all my stats to max in the console to see the ending.

[@steve_jackson9933]

Pretty much hit the nail on the head. It was so much more combat focused than the other two and felt so much shorter. But, I will say BG, BG2 and BG3 I felt it was necessary to play all three. It is like watching the Lord of the Rings trilogy, or Star Wars/Empire/Jedi. This one, with its flaws, did end the story.

[@matthiasbreuer8710]

I have played the BG saga a good dozen times but almost always stop halfway through ToB. Too linear, too few sidequests and NPCs, no exploration, loot is OP and immersion-breaking (why does the corner tavern suddenly sell +3 weapons?). It lost everything I loved about the original and Shadows of Amn, and the only saving grace is Watcher's Keep. It should have been a high-level version of Tales of the Sword Coast - adding more side quests to the main game.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

That is 100% on point, yes.

[@Moonlit_Melody]

good battles isn't a bad thing or...?

[@OroborusFMA]

I didn't finish because the game had a fatal flaw. In the second to last battle Viconia was disintegrated and could not be raised from the dead. The game auto-saved and went straight to the final battle. Without Viconia I could not win the final battle. Frustrating and never got to see the end story summaries.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Ouch!

[@majorgear1021]

So ToB is a hard pass?

[@CrazyxEnigma]

Ymmv. I think it does the job well enough, it's a fun power fantasy as a reward for all the hell your character has gone through and wraps up and concludes companion arcs and offers some satisfying endings. It's also obvious it was rushed out the door ToB was originally conceived as a whole game but Bioware's contract with WOTC ran out and/or WOTC demanded after a certain point only 3E content was allowed to be published, WOTC in fact tried to persuade Bioware to entirely move over to 3E for BG2 but they refused and as a compromise implemented Sorcerer and Monk which didn't exist in 2E. Edit: The Ascension mod was made by a few Bioware devs, David Gaider the main one and adds cut content and makes the boss fights more difficult, some people swear by it as the definitive way to play ToB others think it makes fights too overtuned, it's worth considering adding on especially if you're only going to play it once.

[@thepainsight]

Nah, after doing all of BG1 and 2 with a character it doesn't feel right to not end the story properly.

[@ladykorihor9344]

Does Throne of Bhaal take the best rpg of all time to the next level? No.

[@YeOldEntertainment]

Absolutely not. If anything it waters down the pristine glory of the original.

[@ladykorihor9344]

It's sad, really. We could have had another great game but Wizards only wanted 3.0 content after a certain point so they had to rush this out.

[@swedichboy1000]

Having just completed the trilogy "Bg1-Bg2-ToB" i can say that ToB really brings down the grandeur and epicness the campaign in Bg2 had, encounters are beyond unbalanced (May depend on character and party composition) Some bosses are downright bullshit (Draconis in perticular), the story is kinda weak and it leaves you empty. If people want to try ToB, fair enough, but i would´ve ended it after the highpoint that was BG2.

[@LieutenantStandby]

Trash compared to BG2.

[@justingraves1291]

Buggiest in series? Have you played 3? That game is incomplete trash

[@duhmzdaih]

As far as I know that game hasn't been released as a full game, so your criticism is unfair.