Why People HATE Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear

[@Shinbu1128]

Here's the thing. Don't make a gay character, make a character that is gay. Zevran from Dragon Age: Origins is Bisexual, and I love him as a character. He doesn't announce when you first meet him "I am bisexual, now prepare to die," 'cause that would be stupid. Instead, you find out his sexuality after getting to know him as a person. These SJW writers are too busy making a gay character, that they don't make a character. What's his personality? "Gay." Hobbies? "Gay." Likes or dislikes? "Gay."

[@JounLord1]

+Shinbu1128 You fucking said it dude. Thats pretty much exactly how I feel. If writers made well rounded characters who were gay rather then two dimensional gay characters who sole defining trait is they are gay, nobody would really care. Most people have a problem when its just blatant and highly insulting stereotypes and they try to call that progressive.

[@JounLord1]

August le Aborto Yes it was fucking necessary, I mean shit this isn't a fucking nunnery or goddamn Covenant with its wart wart bitch aliens. ;)

[@EldritchAugur]

+Shinbu1128 Agreed, Zevran was great and his sexuality felt like an afterthought, which is the way it should be.

[@Kusuriurite]

+Shinbu1128 "Here's the thing. Don't make a gay character, make a character that is gay"

[@EldritchAugur]

Looks like it's time to quote Ken Levine again: “The first thing you think about is, ‘Who is this character, and what does he want, and what’s in his way?’ That’s how you develop a character.” “If you start from, ‘This is a black dude’ or ‘This is a Jewish dude,’ you’re kind of missing the point. I try not to look at characters as their skin color, race, sex, creed, or their gender. I think that’s an inauthentic way of thinking about character, because that’s not what defines people. What defines people is their experience.” That's how you write characters. I hate characters who are defined by their gender or race it feels incredibly unrealistic and forced.

[@milesbeler3974]

I knew someone would post this wonderful quote by the good ol' "shock" man.

[@GentleHeretic]

To paraphrase C.S. Lewis, attempting to insert a moral into your story will instantly feel forced, regardless of whether or not you believe it. It's much better to simply write what comes naturally and feels appropriate to the story, "because the moral inherent in them will rise from whatever spiritual roots you have succeeded in striking during the whole course of your life. But if they don't show a moral, don't put one in." I can understand Ms. Scott wanting to spread what she believes are positive messages, but propaganda always pushes story aside in favor of agenda, no matter how righteous the cause. Still, inserting a GamerGate jab is just pointless and unnecessary, and really just dates the entire expansion, as well as tarnishes one of my favorite RPGs of all time.

[@GentleHeretic]

***** Why thank you sir, honored to get a response!

[@UndeadCookieMonster]

+Jacob Smith C.S. Lewis was also very much religious IIRC so he has a much wider view on moral.

[@archvaldor]

+Jacob Smith Agree with the sentiment, but a bit hypocritical coming from Lewis. His books have a very overt religous message that, even as a Catholic, I find way over the top and out of place in a fantasy world. I much prefer Tolkien's more subtle use of broader Christian themes without any allegory or overt references.

[@UndeadCookieMonster]

Archvaldor's Warcraft Hacks Well, I feel like that's a bit incorrect because a lot of his stuff is in metaphors. The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe, for example. Specifically the Lion.

[@archvaldor]

+UndeadCookieMonster I found that metaphor as roughly as subtle as being hit over the head repeatedly with an inflatable hammer with "JESUS" written on it. But, I guess it is all subjective, glad you enjoyed it.

[@CorpusInsanus]

One really good example of adding a diverse character to a video game is in the Witcher 3. Early on you meet a huntsman in the woods to help you track a something, I played it a while back so details are a bit fuzzy. During your conversation he says he's a monster and can't be near people, so you think he's a werewolf right up until you press him hard enough to where he tells you he was in love with the prince of a castle, and there were caught in a barn, so he had to abandon the kingdom or die. Your next dialog option is to either sympathies with him, or scorn him like everyone else. He didn't shove the fact he was gay down my throat, I pressed him on what was wrong, he gave in and told me, and so I sympathized with the poor hunter. He isn't a major character, he isn't superior to Gerald in any way, he's just a man living with himself in a medieval world that won't live with him. After that quest we parted ways, and though I forgot parts of the game since playing it, I still remember him. *That* is how you add good diversity to games.

[@Bjorick]

nah, being gay should be the ONLY trait a gay person has, and that should be a 'super power', making them better then evryone else in the world :D sounds like the witcher 3 has good writing, i should try it some day

[@videogamedunkey]

Last of Us handled gay characters in really mature way that still managed to be provocative and fresh.

[@Retbullgivesyouwings]

+videogamedunkey Wait, dunkey? Here?

[@jlyhrn]

+videogamedunkey That really is a great example, along with Borderlands 2

[@Retbullgivesyouwings]

megamaster117 Sir Hammerlock FTW

[@MultiBulletmagnet]

+videogamedunkey I can't agree more!

[@IEnjoyBeingNaked]

+videogamedunkey Now you have to make a new video about the new Baldur's Gate expansion.

[@quineloe]

What irritates me is that when they originally released the EE, a lot of issues they shut down with "can't do that with our license". but an expansion massively altering the existing characters your license allowed? Yeah, right:

[@yosefyonin6824]

fallout new vegas - had a surprisingly high amount of gay and lesbian characters. but no one cared. why? BECAUSE THEY WERE WRITTEN WELL AND WASN'T SHOVED DOWN YOUR THROAT! in that game, a character tells you about his sexuality only when you ASK him/her about it!

[@commanderpanda9356]

+Yosef Yonin Was there? Oh yeah there was, but they weren't forced so it was believable and I forgot like a real person would

[@DSFARGEG00]

+Yosef Yonin I mean, shit, Veronica and Arcade aren't even coy about being gay. It's just they...you know...are well written.

[@commanderpanda9356]

DSFARGEG00 Wait Veronica's gay? DAMN IT! I was gonna bang

[@cycomiles4225]

+Yosef Yonin Of course, thats also a question if it tells you, because thats none of your damn business. Usually there are subtle hints and I even liked that, it was fun, but someone running to you yelling IM TRANS or whatever, it can be IM STRAIGHT, its just stupid and forced.

[@alanfalleur6550]

It seemed like 70% of the population was bisexual in Skyrim. I don't see what the big deal is.

[@TimetravelerKi]

One of the first items I found when I played Baldur's Gate many many years ago was a gender-swapping belt. I didn't identify it and just put it on and then I was female. Woop, I was transgender. And that in 1998.

[@TimetravelerKi]

Roger Gurman Thanks for pointing that out, captain obvious.

[@rogergurman1570]

Timetraveler Ki Thanks for pointing THAT out, my trusted sidekick.

[@minnion2871]

3.Was there anything stopping you from putting on a cursed item after identifying it? 4.If they really wanted to have fun with the whole trans thing why not just introduce a wizard who does sex changes...(And happens to be gender fluid, but its more of a show don't tell thing as they just tend to be a different gender every other time you see them... )

[@TimetravelerKi]

No, nothing stops you from putting it on after identifying it. Your second idea is good.

[@markokrstic3562]

Minnion that would actually manage to include a gender-fluid character, which would fit their agenda, AND manage to be creative/interesting at the same time. Kudos to you, shame they didn't think of that. Then of course, how could they when their priority was showing an agenda down consumer's throat rather than adding creative, interesting new stories and characters to the game.

[@kevnar]

This woman is a lousy writer and a lousy SJW. You do not effect change by forcing your views on other people. All that does is create backlash and hate. She's done harm to the cause she's supposedly fighting for.

[@randyrandalman8234]

Gay character - check. Trans character - check. Bisexual character - check. Video game character design shouldn't be based on a checklist. This is what happens when you get self-proclaimed social justice warriors involved - customers hate their game and the company learns its lesson through poor sales. Glad the community got behind this.

[@dnlkr]

The thing that bothers me the most is that the writer doesn't even know the setting (or know how to write but that is apart). Transsexuality is a non-issue in a Forgotten Realms or Pathfinder setting. There are literally potions and girdles that do precisely that via magic, even an NPC class can get access to them after like 2 years of savings on average. Someone has done the math. With Adventurer profit lines you can probably buy one at level 3 or 4 even with equipment and supply costs factored in. Someone being openly and aggressively transsexual makes absolutely no sense in the setting.

[@amazingtribol5922]

+dnlkr It's been some years since i played but if i'm remembering right there is a miniboss early in the first BG that has a belt of gender changing

[@dnlkr]

Amazing Tribol An ogre or bugbear I think.

[@AndragonLea]

+dnlkr Yeah. You can lay your hands on a belt of gender changing pretty much 15 minutes into the game - that stuff is just that uncommon. Having a character tell you about the massive struggle of living as a woman inside the body of a man or vice versa when you are living in a fantasy world of shapechangers, illusionists and wish granting Djinn is just straight up retarded. Why would anyone spend years or decades being whiny instead of just earning the money and asking a wizard to fashion them a polymorph item/belt like that? Sense, this makes none.

[@MsHojat]

In D&D/Pathfinder worlds, magic items are absurdly expensive to commoners. There is no way they could ever afford magical gender change item. That said, this person is not a commoner, and might be able to afford something magical. _THAT SAID,_ this topic is completely ignoring the fact that *they could very well be using a gender change item.* Keep in mind that they said that they were just _raised_ as the opposite sex. There's nothing saying that they _aren't_ using magic to aid their change.

[@Helblind]

If you define yourself by your sexuality, if you feel a need to tell people about it and to talk about it constantly, you need a hobby.

[@SquirrelGamez]

+Helblind I actually know someone who tends to bring up being trans very early, on when meeting new people. This isn't about needing a new hobby, it's about needing acceptance. That definitely is still a personal issue, and it's kinda wrong to push it on other people, but I very much doubt they do tat to push an agenda. Now, putting rrans and bis and gays in games... that's pushing an agenda. Not a bad agenda, but as Boogie said (and I agree with him 100%), if they do it, they better do it right. Or else.

[@victorc8804]

I happen to like shemales and real women I'm the D giver 😂

[@faceyfacefaceface]

@@jaredsun4277 So does that make their point any less valid and you calling them ill in the head is definitely offensive.

[@AbeDillon]

Nobody in the game fits that description except maybe Safana. The only person that tells you they're trans in the game is a vendor and it's only one paragraph in one dialog tree that's completely optional.

[@ColonelEviscerator]

Don't care about gay, bi, whatever for the most part. What I care about is the holier than thou bullshit, and not being true to source material.

[@Scriblerlus]

The source material is really where I am at with this whole topic. To my knowledge FR (and Ed Greenwood) does not address this subject as an inherent part of the world and forcing the subject to be a part of that world, imo, affects the quality of the game. I played the BG series because of how immersive they were and how much they reminded me of the books I enjoyed, and these types of changes serve to separate the game from the world rather that coalesce the two.

[@Kragatar]

We had dressgate, we had buttgate... now it's time for Baldur's Gategate. xD

[@Silvergun_Raven]

Hahaha!

[@danploehn]

lol!

[@drmikehuntphd7905]

+crapvile XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[@globox123456789]

+Jimothy Fucksmen DX

[@GoldPoptart]

Don't forget deflate gate

[@RickF7666]

I don't really care about "diverse" characters in a story. I care about interesting characters in a story. And what I really care about is pre-established characters being changed to fit some, johnny come lately's, agenda. You don't let a child take crayons to the Mona Lisa, no mater how much you like the child.

[@CountPenta]

Hate to say it but when the writer of anything starts out by saying that they're SJW I automatically assume that whatever they're making is crap.

[@apex1568]

+Count Penta Well, you have to because almost 100% of the time their activism takes priority over everything else. I have never understood them, they take sexuality and gender far to seriously, to the point where it becomes their only characteristic. I for one thing are sick of hearing it, i couldn't care less about someones gender or sexual prefrence so when it's the only thing a person has to talk about you become no different to a pull string doll that repeats the same tired phrases over and over.

[@Ldytrinity]

+Count Penta SJW has become a trigger word to people for "they care about things...lets HATE them"..Not just hate them..but *HATE* them. I don't care what their message is..what they stand for..them as individuals...what they are on about etc. It's just become *I'm SO OFFENDED THAT THEY ARE OFFENDED.. THEY SHOULD DIE IN A FIRE* ;D It's fascinating.

[@UltimaHelz]

+Ldytrinity Hey look it's one of them.

[@Ldytrinity]

OH where?! :D

[@UXSpecialist]

I Will Never touch this Garbage!!! What Crap!!!!! Stay away from our games!!!!!!!!!!! I HATE SJW'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@RockR277]

Taking something established and changing it to what you want? What could possibly go wrong. It went so well for star wars and everyone loved it!

[@Tutor4Hire]

It did go well for SW but personally I hated it.

[@gungriffen]

The problem I have with most SJW products is they feel like PSA's. Like you're being talked down to. Also you can add all the gay, trans, bi characters you want but don't take a character and just out of the blue fucking change them.

[@ericwinters1513]

+Gungriffen Also the character's name is "Jenna." You know, like Kaitlin Jenner, who is so brave and stunning. It's so on the nose and dumb. It's so obvious what the writer's are trying to do, it's the same tactic the adults used on us to have safe sex and not do drugs when I was in HS. We all laughed at how dumb they were as they talked down to us. Now SJWs do it to everyone about anything that have a hard-on for spreading awareness about. Even trans people have said the character wasn't very good. And like he said, LGBT people don't introduce themselves by announcing their sexual preferences. That's weird. Also, making their identity revolve around their sexuality is lacking in creativity and kind of bigoted. Which is weird for someone that's supposed to love being "progressive."

[@GeteMachine]

+Christobanistan Most black fictional characters are never written against the co-existence of white characters, but are usually friends with or want to help the cause they are apart of. They don't if ever wear their race on their sleeve in comics because its already assumed they are accepted by the universe they're in and added in to reflect that. However SJW writers write out of a projection of themselves taken further with female characters where now adays they're written just to say they are better than men and to enforce that, while the female characters people like that aren't feminist heroes tend to be attacked by feminists because they aren't dissing or bullying the men they coexist with. Thats the difference. Then you have LGBT character that today are being written to overlap hetereosexuality or Transgendered characters written in ways to force the audience to accept their lifestyle rather than the character's relevance in the story itself, I see it.

[@skaruts]

+Gungriffen I'm waiting with bated breath for the day when they change Speedy Gonzalez into a kiwi...

[@rjsteeves]

Very well put, Boogie. I am a HUGE fan of Baldur's Gate. I had read several dozen Forgotten Realms books by the time BG2 was released and I truly felt immersed in that world. The issue that strikes me the hardest is that these writers are not only lacking in subtly, but they are forcing subjects and issues into Faerun that frankly don't have any place there. The forgotten realms is a complicated, storied setting filled with it's own unique set of issues completely alien to our own. It is a world where various different sentient and monstrous species have developed, worshiping a large number of various diverse gods who actively participate (i.e. screw with) the world at large. This all takes place in what we would call a late medievil setting, technological development is slow due to the presence of magic and it's use, and things like the enlightenment and the industrial revolution are not a thing in Faerun. There are plenty of strong, high-level women all around, but there is no feminist movement. There are no scribe protests happening in Candlekeep, no Drow Lives Matter movement and no one in Evermeet is clamoring to let in massive numbers of immigrants. Democracy, for that matter, is incredibly rare in Faerun, and for good reason when you consider how hostile a world it is. Cities are surrounded by walls with Keeps, Castles and citidels a regular ocurrence. Monsters are real. Autocratic and Oligarchical rule are the norms, as are police states. It feels so out of place that a goblin, for example, would have the impetus to call my player character racist (naturally, I killed him. Treating him differently from other goblins would have been prejudicial). Compare Ms. Scott's clumsy attempts at writing with R.A.Salvatore, who's main character faced fear and discrimination from the moment he stepped on to the surface. He wrote Drizzt within the context and setting of the forgotten realms, taking into account that world's history and as such, nothing about it felt forced. The uphill battle Drizzt had to face was not unjustified, not when Drow regularly make mass murder trips to the surface.

[@bulwarkgames7834]

I think having gay or transgender characters in a fantasy setting is an amazing idea, however any time someone tries to say "hey look at me I'm GAY!!!" in their first few lines of dialogue you have committed character suicide. I even run lgbt characters in my D&D settings. It adds a lot of spice to a campaign when the strong male guard captain does not respond to the female bard's sexual advances because he is not in to girls, UNKNOWN by the the players. The unknown part is key. I don't assume a character to be gay or trans so there will be a surprise when you discover this. And if a player runs a transgender character or a gay character only through deep role play and true friendship building should the party become privy to that knowledge. When they are strangers it is none of each other's business as to who they choose to have sex with.

[@Saphirefenix]

+sean q You are spot on. c:

[@lionfan96]

spot on man.

[@kuunami]

Unfortunately small minded people are often the loudest with their views and opinions.

[@huynhtranhung]

Agree.

[@milesj.943]

+kuunami On both sides. There's just as many people shouting "You have to accept me or you're wrong" as there are shouting "Your lifestyle is wrong".

[@backbewbz5708]

+kuunami Big fucking bravo for taking the moral high ground there, sir;p

[@sluggdiddyyddidgguls]

+kuunami Its pretty convenient to label anyone who might disagree with you as small minded don't ya think?

[@bossmanham]

+kuunami Hypocrite

[@Ottuln]

8:00 The backlash is not that they are creating great games with subtle changes, it is that they are recreating known and loved characters to fit the image that they feel they should have been in the first place. No one likes it when people attack their nostalgia, and for good reason.

[@happybird4942]

+Wreqt exactly, Wreqt. This is so not complicated.

[@hinugundamB]

+Wreqt The backlash is because the writing is just BAD, the other points are just nails on the coffin. Beamdog have bein feverishly trying to paint the complain as if its about the transgendar character and that's blatant lie.

[@Ottuln]

***** For the most part that is true. I am trying to address the point that people keep trying to make that the problem is that this type of characters exists, rather than being that Beamdog decided to screw with characters that we know were different in the past.

[@hinugundamB]

screwing with the character wasn't the real problem, its the fact that they screwed with the old characters BADLY. People would be ok with it if they are written competently, instead they are written as terrible agenda pushers.

[@Ottuln]

***** Amen.

[@ColonelPandabear]

I absolutely support diverse characters in gaming, but it sounds like they changed pre-existing characters to suit an agenda, and that's ridiculous.

[@skaruts]

+Colonel Panda I don't support diversity. I support creative and artistic freedom (which will be naturally diverse). I will posit that anything you create without thinking about "diversity" will sound as natural as you can make it, and that it never will otherwise. I posit that the mindset of a creator who's thinking in terms of _"diversity"_ is invariably conditioned to shoehorn something in. There's also a reason why I placed the word _"diversity"_ in quotes the whole time: its an undefined term. What exactly is diverse? Is it about gender? Race? Both? Why should that be in question anyway? If a movie is all black people (The American Gangster), what difference does it make? Though it's surely not _"diverse"_ in that case, I would think. I think you get the point. That term is a wiesel word used to push agendas. I'm bisexual and I don't want bisexual characters in the media. I just want characters in the media... Three of my favorite movies have gays/bisexuals in them (Rocknrolla, Crank and Smokin Aces), and that's totally not why they're my favorites. Even if I find those particular characters awesome. And I don't feel represented by them. Nor do I feel a need to be represented. Whatever that means too.

[@Maioly]

+Colonel Panda and they did so with NO knowledge of how the original characters worked one quote from the interview I will NEVER forget is how jaheira is referred to as nothing more than a nagging wife stereotype when she is basically a good character's mentor and one of the main positive influences should she stay in the party being one of the best characters overall, IF a bit bland at times but still, there is a goddamn reason why she is one of the main party members you start baldurs gate 2 with...

[@THEGREATMAX]

Telling the fans you don't care what they think? That's a good way to get rightly fired

[@Awakeandalive1]

The problem is that they changed established characters (in one case, in a remarkably sex-negative way) and focused more on preaching to the audience than creating a working, functional expansion to a beloved game.

[@JaredScott]

+Awakeandalive1 sounds a lot like what they did with ice man. While I'm not a fan of gay/tans stuff in my entertainment, as long as they dont mess with established characters or make it preachy then i'm likely not going to say a thing and keep enjoying what i'm playing/reading/watching.

[@Awakeandalive1]

Jared Scott Yeah, exactly -- create new characters! Don't warp existing ones to fit new agendas!

[@mariosmatzoros3553]

@Andre Michael Pietroschek Zevran(the assasin from dragon age) is bisexual, not gay.

[@DontMakeMeCallBovice]

"I consciously add as much diversity as I can to my writing and I don't care if people think that's forced or fake." You don't care that you're bad at your job? That's exactly what she is saying. A good writer entwines a story. The characters, events, the world, and circumstances are supposed to flow. There needs to continuity to make everything mesh together into a believable and immersive atmosphere, even if it is just fantasy. That's what makes a good story, and the ability to do so is what makes a good writer. Nevermind all of that though, because the writer "doesn't care", and if you don't like it, "then too bad".

[@polterghost_]

Good story > forcing personal ideologies

[@MrDrTheJniac]

+polterghost Exactly. Put in a gay by all means, but do it properly, don't crowbar it in.

[@LazyFaux5656]

+MrDrTheJniac Yeah, like Ass Creed Syndicate

[@KalashnikovPaouzzi]

+polterghost Personally my point of view is: if you put your little ideology in it dont do it in a condescending, patronizing or in your face way. You do it by smoothly adding it to the story in an organic manner and it should be a more think about it manner of presenting the subject and not a this is what you should believe or preach.

[@djandrewification]

MuseBreaks88 did you even read what everyone was saying?

[@MikeJones-oe3do]

The makers of this game know a lot of teenage kids will be playing this game, they want to push they're agenda subliminally.

[@robinhood7293]

>transgender character >in a fucking world where the Girdle of M/F exists

[@daveplatt3934]

I always take the position Arnold took for the Predator. They are trying to survive an alien that is hunting them; there is no room for sexuality. A Baldur's Gate game is the same sort of deal. They are trying to save there homeland from some vastly powerful threat. Sexual orientation should be the last thing any character brings up in a conversation or even thinks about....

[@daveplatt3934]

In a sense you are correct. People with opposing views treat each other like garbage on the internet. We all do it. I have very good friends that are feminists, and they aren't exactly keen on the SJW thing either. If you want to be taken seriously you need to avoid personally attacking people. If someone makes outrageous attacks on you let them hang themselves with their own craziness and stay focused on logic and consistency. People in Gamergate need to distance themselves from doxxers and aggressive harassers and stick to the factual criticism of bad thinking. Otherwise you just have to rise above the mud slinging. Its not productive and it makes you look immature if you engage in it.

[@UltraBran]

+Dave Platt Agreed, though some of the mud slinging is justifiable - on either side.

[@TheEvolver311]

Have you ever played the game? That isn't what it's about really at all. In fact by the end of the game you can choose to become the evil in the world.

[@KartGaming]

The thing that gets to me is that the same ppl who were raging at a minor optional text in Pillars of Eternity are the same people who argue that these are just minor optional things and people should just get over it. Transgenders have arguably been in BG since the original, with the Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity and the whole Edwin/Edwina thing. It works well if it's well written. Krem in Dragon Age Inquisition is a good example of how to write a great trans character. Someone telling you about them being transgender within 1 minute of meeting you is not good writing. And apparently the only responses to that random tidbit is supportive, even if your character is an evil heartless bastard who murders children and puppies in the game. I generally play a goody-two-shoes and will choose supportive options when I meet her in my let's play, but there should be neutral or downright nasty options to any situation in an RPG. Hell if this happened irl I'd probably be too taken aback by someone telling me about this so fast to form a coherent sentence - but that might just be the shy Swede in me. And the Minsc comment is just cringe. So much cringe. Beamdog trying to change the narrative to imply that any criticism, even technical stuff, is actually about ethics in social justice (HEYOOO) is just all sorts of wrong.

[@Thagomizer]

For me, the issue is more about respecting the vision and integrity of the original game. Alterations to existing characters and such are about as annoying to me as George Lucas' special editions of the original Star Wars trilogy. Sure, Safana wasn't a particularly deep character (and let's face it, neither are most of the NPCs), but she fit nicely into the distinctively hammy atmosphere of the game.

[@Alex-pg8zl]

It's not surprising when your ideology is based on the notion that entertainment and media should be used to shape peoples minds to what one desires, that this shit is going to happen. Of course, since we live in the capitalist system that these kind of people hate, the product is at the mercy of the consumer, not the other way around, as it should be.

[@Alex-pg8zl]

Aaron Solomon You misunderstood what I said. "As it should be" was not referring to "the other way around". It was to the entire statement that preceded it ("the product is at the mercy of the consumer, not the other way around")

[@Mythos_Musik]

It's in the bag, man.

[@Nel_Annette]

Basically, diversity is good when it can be written in naturally. *Forced* diversity is bad. It interrupts the flow of a story and always just comes off as awkward.

[@CraigAA1028]

Do gay/trans people walk up to you in real life and just start shouting "HEY IM GAY! DID YOU KNOW I'M GAY? JUST SO YOU KNOW I'M GAY!" like it's their only defining character trait? No? Then don't write characters in games that act that way. If someone did that in real life, they'd immediately come across as obnoxious.

[@sonicmouse3083]

+CraigAA1028 "Do gay/trans people walk up to you in real life and just start shouting "HEY IM GAY! DID YOU KNOW I'M GAY? JUST SO YOU KNOW I'M GAY!"" -- No, that mentality is saved for vegans.

[@Avrysatos]

+CraigAA1028 Don't the characters in these games tell you all their business anyway?

[@Jirekianu]

+AmaranteStryfe when it's actually relevant. and it's still usually a sign of it being a really old game or of bad writing. There's at least some semblance of context for giving very intimate details to a stranger. i.e. it's a quest, you're showing up during an emergency, etc. this was literally "hello npc I've never met I'd like a health potion." "huh, unusual name." "I was born a boy and my parents raised me as such, but they came to accept in time as did I that I am a woman. my name is chosen from syllables that have important meaning to me." it's an irrelevant and socially inappropriate piece of writing. it's not a start to a plea for aid or a hint for something else. it's the writer going "HI I'M TRANS. DID YOU KNOW I'M TRANS. YOU SHOULD LIKE THE PERSON WHO WROTE ME FOR BEING INCLUSIVE."

[@stinkydroolface]

Have you ever met a marine who hasn't told anyone for 20 minutes that he/she is a marine. OMG their head explodes!

[@Avrysatos]

Jirekianu You actually have to ask the character about the name to get that comment about them being transgender....

[@almostfaceman]

This writer is in a business and she forgot the #1 rule. The customer is always right. This rule simply means that a business knows its focus should be giving the customer what they want. Being adversarial in any way with your customer base is not the way to achieve this.

[@taz0k2]

What does sexuality have to do with Baldur's Gate? Where are the "safe zones" for those who don't want every single particle of life to circle around current political trends?

[@wormwood3118]

Everything is political. Everything is sexual. No thing and no one is neutral,everyone takes a stance whether they realise it or not. Now crawl back to your hole of stupid,that's the only safe zone you'll get.

[@DystopianDadd]

@@wormwood3118 everything is sexual and political? I pity you

[@constantin5509]

This idea of "diversity" and "being inclusive" is getting out of control.

[@RogueHunter117x]

It's certain groups that feel that it's their way or the highway. Thus leading to entitled people who feel they should all be front and center because they're different. For some reason political correctness has become expected and I truly hope this goes away at some point in the future. I just want to live life and encounter stuff as it comes my way. Not have it shoved down my throat by "Social Justice Warriors."

[@constantin5509]

RogueHunter117x Amen. Political Correctness is ruining entertainment for all of us.

[@RogueHunter117x]

+Razvan Musat I completely agree. It isn't the absolute worse thing to grace the planet, but I'd certainly agree that it has become far too overbearing

[@RobPetersen-o7b]

Just wait for 8 Years from now (now)...you'll really want to puke.

[@constantin5509]

@@RobPetersen-o7b Yeah, its... gotten WAY worse lol. And I don't see it ending anytime soon, either.

[@nipp6262]

the problem with saying people are not wrong in not wanting gay or trans characters in their games.. is that in real life, in person, you have no choice in being around us. and if that's your first encounter with a gay/trans person, you won't know what to say, you may(probably) say the wrong things, and call us the wrong names. i'm not an agenda, i'm a fucking person.

[@kidmanier]

Shut up dude fucking hell... Nobody cares if you're gay only you care what people think which makes you paranoid!

[@nipp6262]

+boogie2988 i know you do, and i know you don't have any sort of problem with trans people and are willing to understand and learn and be a good person. but when people say they're getting "diversity" shoved down their throats, they show other people that opinion who might not know anything about us. they may have never talked with a transgender person, they may have never heard of issues that we face. and unfortunately, that opinion saying that something is being forced into your daily life or shoved down your throat is extremely harmful as a whole because it implies that we are "out of the norm" and strange and don't belong in spaces with cis people or straight people or gamers or athletes or film critics or chefs or anything. you didn't hurt my feelings. i just found it important to point out because i know you read your comments and i enjoy your videos and general content.

[@nipp6262]

+kidmanier you don't know my life, you don't know the life of other LBGTQ members. you don't understand that people DO care, just because you don't doesn't mean everyone feels that way. and telling me to shut up is exactly what bigots want me to do.

[@kidmanier]

+leeksquad ­ "you don't know my life" I live on the exact same fucking planet as you do.. The only thing that's different about us is where you live and where I live. Nobody cares about you being gay just like nobody cares about me being straight! The only difference, is that gays/lesbians/trans etc.. They all start campaigns which raises awareness for bullies and what not which then makes people think "hey lets go against the protestors" and people immediately think what you are doing is wrong... If anything your bring it upon yourselves

[@kidmanier]

+kidmanier you*

[@Jaxeed]

Gay and lesbian characters in Baldur's Gate could work fine, but transgender makes no sense considering the rules of this universe. If someone were suffering from gender dysphoria here, they could fix that in a way we can only dream of real life. Switch over completely using magic! This particular magic is also established as excisting previously in Baldur's Gate, so there is no excuse. There would be no transgendered people as everyone would be the gender they feel like entirely for real. Only a schmuck would walk around feeling as if born in the wrong body in this universe, but this writer is so arrogant and focused on agenda pushing this was not even considered. This is frankly just dumb writing and ruins the experience.

[@Lamadredetuamigo]

Exactly my thoughs. Sex change rings are not that rare and are cursed, so they would be relatively cheap to buy.

[@Artsificial]

+Jaxeed Aye. Well, it certainly shows one thing: Amber Scott has no clue about the lore or the universe she invaded and 'fixed'. She obviously could not have cared less about established rules. All she cared about was to insert her agenda and get paid for it. She has ruined a much beloved IP and she has doomed Beamdog, well done.

[@John-lk5su]

Exactly she has no idea about the source material she writes for

[@rjsteeves]

+Artsificial Anyone remember Edwin Odesseiron from BG2? He read from the wrong spell scroll and *poof* gender-swap. Amber Scott doesn't know her lore.

[@Bartoc1988]

+Jaxeed A belt of sexchange wa sone of the first items you found ind Baldurs Gate 1 :3

[@ScuffyP]

My best friend of 20+ years is gay, but you wouldn't know it if you met him. It's not simply because he doesn't appear gay, it's because he doesn't mention it to everyone he meets. Same way I don't mention I'm straight to people I meet. It's not an issue. So why do writers continue to create gay characters that are ALL about their sexuality? Unless directly asked by the player or required via a storyline, a character's sexuality, whatever it may be, shouldn't become that character main trait. Siege of Dragonspear is terribly written by someone with absolutely no understanding of the subjects their approaching and the people it involves.

[@cycomiles4225]

+Scuffy P Its written by a SJW, a group of people that are most out of touch with real life, and I say good because the devs will finally realize that they don't bring in the cash. The writer probably doesn't even know a gay person. I know one guy, and also...you'd never say on the first glance that he is gay, or even if you talked to him for hours.

[@Skippy19812]

These topics are only "controversial" because self proclaimed social justice warriors (self righteous, narcissistic, shallow hipsters) make them controversial. The vast, *vast* majority of people really couldn't care less weather a fictional collection of polygons likes to take it roughly up the chuff from big hairy sailors. It is a complete and utter non-issue, and making it into an issue is nothing more than projection. Its the creative equivalent of pointing at a random stranger on the street and screaming "RACIST!" then feeling superior for calling them out on a position you have no reason to believe that they hold. Moreover, it is incredibly insulting towards the people who's identities these social justice warriors are co-opting in a shallow and vein attempt at boosting their own pathetic egos. And it does far more harm than good. Constantly having these issues forced into your face creates sympathy fatigue, so anybody who genuinely does have issues tied to their sexual identity are far less likely to find others sympathetic.

[@Heimdal001]

+Skippy19812 I'd say it's a non-issue to anyone who isn't an "asshole on the internet", because I would be surprised if there aren't assholes on the extremes of both sides. It's not really a "SJW" thing, it's an "internet working like it always has" thing. Arguments on the internet are just a mess of angry and poorly thought out opinions, 99% of the time.

[@Skippy19812]

Heimdal001 Shallow and narcissistic people predate the internet, but the internet gave them a platform for their attention seeking behavior. The mistake most people make is that they take what the vocal minority say in good faith. They assume that they genuinely feel strongly about these issues when, in actuality, they're simply exploiting the issues for personal gain. Normally I wouldn't care, but these people are doing real world damage to genuine causes. Black Lives Matter had legitimate concerns about militarization of the police, until rich college kids hijacked the movement and used it as a platform to gain sympathy for non existent problems. Feminism has a very legitimate reason to exist in developing nations, but nobody takes it seriously anymore because "man-spreading" and "air conditioning is sexist." In this example, the developer of a video game is exploiting trans and gay issues to cover up for the fact that their game is poorly coded and badly written garbage. We need to stop indulging these people. They're bullies. Cold, calculating, bullies. And they don't care who they hurt or how much damage they do.

[@nm425]

What an unbelievable disappointment. Baldur's Gate II was one of the great games I loved growing up. I just can't believe this franchise would contaminate itself by hiring an SJW writer.

[@MsPhysics22100]

+Nick M respect the artists vision

[@nm425]

ProfesserMs2210 You mean that writer? She can have whatever vision she wants. I just wish she would do it with a less established franchise that she can experiment with. At any rate, Boogie2988 has convinced me not to buy this game.

[@MsPhysics22100]

Nick M No the company decided to hire her and aproved her script. Stop trying to censor games

[@nm425]

ProfesserMs2210 I didn't say she should stop writing; I'm not censoring her or the company. But I'm not going to buy it either. Stop trying to censor my criticism.

[@MsPhysics22100]

Nick M you were never going to buy it in the first place so what does it matter?

[@Koreyx]

fallout new Vegas did it right

[@brendancoulter5761]

For the most part yeah, New Vegas mostly had good writing, and poor coding and some questionable design.

[@Ultrox007]

I have no intent to buy the expansion or play it, *because I don't want to play something non-representative of its source material.*

[@qwertyb18]

I'd pay to see "Three Black Guys and a Jew" in theaters.

[@XarkoCZ]

Black Panther (2018)

[@dragnet53]

+Querty Beighteen I'd pay to see a bad guy as a Jew.

[@llucllumador380]

The thing is I don't really care if there is a transsexual character or not. The fact that the creator stepped out and said she identifies herself as a "SJW" is enough for me to not want anything to do with this game. Because I know beforehand that this game's story is not trying to be fun or interesting but trying to push the fascist political and moral agenda of an SJW.

[@jesot]

It's likely more to do with the fact that they're fucking up an all-time great game with an all-time great video game story. Make your own fucking game if you don't like the Baldur Gate story. They knew exactly what they were doing when they took on BG. Their sole agenda was to stir shit up and piss people off. People aren't pissed off at a diverse cast, they're pissed off at one of the best games ever made being shredded to pieces by a hack team.

[@byghostlight0]

+jesot you dont know what you are talking about, they didnt fuck up the game, the original game is still there, you can still buy it. Hell this stuff isnt even in the enhanced version of the original game, its in a unofficial sequel. Which, like the enhanced editions, you can enjoyed or ignore but the great classics are still there untainted and unchanged for history to record. PS they arent a hack team, there are some of the original creators and many successful game devs

[@jkessler410]

Agree 100% , people think that everyone who takes issue with having social issues shoved down their throat has some sort of dislike or even hate for a certain group, the only group I hate are the ones always beating me over the head with a message.

[@brandonstrife9738]

It has evolved to hate for me. I fuckin hate SJW's and they target children thats why they are in gaming.

[@AbeDillon]

I have a question. Was Safana "beating you over the head" with her overt heterosexuality in the original Baldur's Gate? How about all the heterosexual romances you and other characters could pursue? Were those "beating you over the head"? Why or why not?

[@Ne0mega]

I and my friend, (who is married to a trans woman IRL), were going to buy this game and play it together. Then Amber Scott opened her big mouth. I got to work the next day, and he told me the same. He doesn't want to play it now. And I feel kind of the same. You would be surprised how liberal I am, (he is actually quite conservative, I know, crazy for a man married to a transwoman), but both of us just aren't going to play a game where obvious modern day issues are thrust into the story line, and awkwardly at that. P.S. He LOVES gay romance and trans storylines in games. LOVES it, so at first I thoguht we would have a blast together (I personally can do without them)... ...but, Amber Scott. Boring is better than stupid, Amber, and your writing is obviously stupid.

[@Robert399]

It's particularly stupid because Baldur's Gate already had a gay character and a bisexual character (Rasaad and Dorn respectively).

[@aguynamedjames8956]

Dorn yeah but he like thinks your attractive because he knows how strong you are you know so it's not really on the side that he likes both men and woman it's more like he likes power haha and that he knows you both can be even MORE powerful if your both together or just companions so it's really more of a relationship based on respect and power then any you know romance

[@rogergurman1570]

Rasaad is a Bi? God dang it, I totally missed that.Funny how all the new BeamDog characters for BG are exclusively gays, lesbians, bis and bloody dopes (Neera). What we're missing is a pedophile, a mass-murderer, a racist and a coprophile. Because, in my strong opinion, excluding those is racist. Yes, even a racist should be a playable characters, because of freedom of speech, freedom of opinion and the fact that we should be accepted the way we are. You hear that, Amber Scott, you bloody idiot?! More diversity, please.

[@Allen-rv5dd]

Considering the nature of the game, wouldn't the main character be the most mass-murderingest of them all? Coprophile? Hmm...What was the name of the town at the end of Throne of Bhaal? Yeah, that was kinda poop.

[@rogergurman1570]

Allen Inman "Considering the nature of the game, wouldn't the main character be the most mass-murderingest of them all?" Not necessarily. Killing murderers, brigands, cutthroats, assassins, evil wizards & priests and vicious beasts does not make you a murderer. You could of course play as a LE/NE character, killing the innocent and the weak for profit, or even CE character, killing everyone on your path, but the game does not really reward such behavior, despite aiming for freedom of choice. You know who should make a comeback as a playable character in the future BeamDog BG installments? Neb the child killer. Amber Scott should also include a new gender - trans - and two fighter kits: a Social Justice Warrior and a Queer Slayer. Everyone should be appeased that way, and there would be a REAL DIVERSITY, not this crappy agenda-dictated pseudo-diversity. "What was the name of the town at the end of Throne of Bhaal? Yeah, that was kinda poop" I honestly do not remember. What was it?

[@permanentmigraine]

All I wanted was the old fucking game, man. I guess I asked for too much. I'll just fucking search my basement for the original copy.

[@pizdamatii5001]

+AngerIssuez maybe english isn't your first language or you just suck at listening comprehension: the old game was remade (called "enhanced edition") and you can play it if you wish; siege of dragonspear is an expansion to the original game.

[@arsenii_yavorskyi]

+pizda matii , yes, but, if he buys Enhanced Edition, that would mean financial support for Beamdog and their lunacy.

[@DenverStarkey]

+Arsenij Javorśkyj wait for a steam sale ... give them as little as possible. or go GOG.com

[@onemadhungrynomad]

as a homosexual trans woman i find this sort of hack writing just hurts the cause of equality and makes people who love these games angry. i hate when people crowbar these sorts of characters into great classic games. this is not a positive step, at all, sjws are the worst about this. i hate bad writing so much.

[@FancyKerbloops]

When writers stop treating "questioning/transgender/gay/bisexual" characters as walking billboards for their own or opposing ideologies, and instead, write them as actual people... THAT'S what progress looks like.

[@cheesypoohalo]

+FancyKerbloops I'd like to agree, but I feel most fiction writers can't even write straight male and female characters well. There are so many bland and generic characters, even when budgets are high, e.g. John from Disney's John Carpenter of Mars, or Trinity from The Matrix, as glaringly bad examples.

[@FancyKerbloops]

+cheesypoohalo Think of every single great literary or cinema hero or antagonist you can. How many of them had their sexuality or gender identity paraded out as a plot point? Not to say that it's never fair game to touch on or explore those issues. They just need to be woven into the tapestry of the character, and not just be "bulletpoint number two". Take Kanji and Naoto from Persona 4, or the Blackfish (Who is a tremendous badass) from Game of Thrones, for instance.

[@cheesypoohalo]

Agreed for the most part, I was just being a pessimist in my previous comment, haha I feel like a successful LGBT character needs to have their identity known within the context of the work- for example, I'd say Dumbledore is a bad example since, although he's considered a gay character, it's practically never mentioned in the work and serves as little more than a publicity stunt by have Rowling say 'he's gay btw' without it being acknowledged in the books. On the other hand, the correct way to handle LGBT characters would be to weave them into the work with normalcy, e.g. a character being gay and no one making a fuss about it, as opposed to not mentioning it at all (which I personally think doesn't add anything to the character) or having it as a characters primary trait (which leaves a character feeling flat and more like a prop).

[@cheesypoohalo]

Risakisa a fantastic line of reasoning with a superb explanation, really glad you put so much thought into your argument it really helped me understand your point 10/10 Risakisa wins

[@UnsoberIdiot]

Thanks, I truly did my best. :D

[@LeeboProductions]

Boogie, I too have friends and family of all stripes, races, ethnicities, sexuality etc, and it's *PRECISELY* why I oppose this kind of forced and hackneyed writing... because I respect them, I treat them as I would treat anyone else... These SJW's infantalize them, and treat them like domestic animals or babies. It's condescending, and It's infuriating to me *and* my friends and family. Especially my trans friend who fucking hates SJW's.... and because I have bipolar I get it: No one likes people pointing out that you're different, no one likes people walking on eggshells around you. It's the most uncomfortable feeling ever! I wish you would respond to this, but I guess it will just get lost amongst too many comments.

[@TheJohnny1701]

amen.

[@TheJohnny1701]

amen.

[@LeeboProductions]

John a Thong Thanks, dude.

[@CeruleanRogue]

+LeeboProductions This. I have friends from all walks of life, many nationalities, and many sexualities. There is nothing more insulting in my eyes than boiling down a person's essence until all that defines them is a specific trait in the name of being 'progressive'. I would very much enjoy more characters from every walk of life. I'd kill for a well written transgendered character. A bisexual character who isn't a nymphomaniac? Sign me the fuck up. But they can't be defined by one aspect of their total character. I am low-drive bisexual and aromatic, but it is not all that I am. It doesn't even account for 10% of my entire life experience and mental outlook. Likewise my best friend is a FtM transgendered male who was recently approved to begin his transition, and while that aspect of his life is much more front and center given it's still shifting nature that isn't all he is either. You wouldn't even know how much he struggles with that aspect of his life if you weren't close to him because, like most people, it isn't information he volunteers to those he isn't close to. Human beings are not walking tropes. If you want people to sympathize with a certain demographic then pandering is one of the least successful ways to go about it. I do not want to see characters who are defined by a trope simply for the sake of appeasing some politically correct ideal. I want to see characters who are well written and fleshed out, who just might so happen to have a fringe aspect to their character that I might relate to. A character who just so happens to be gay, for example, is much more engaging and able to change minds than a gay character that has nothing else going for them. In the former case, because of the more realistic approach people can empathize with them and potentially see things from a different perspective because the character is more approachable and - frankly - realistic. In the latter case the writer has basically condensed out everything interesting that could potentially apply to the character for the sake of one aspect, shoving it so far down everyone's throat that hardly anyone would end up pleased with the final result. It's shallow and frankly poor writing.

[@LeeboProductions]

CeruleanRogue This! Extremely well said! You nailed it!

[@NaskaelWasTaken]

Diverese characters are good. Forcing them for the sake of having them is stupid.

[@MrSirFluffy]

+Mayor Mayer

[@DetectiveNyx]

+Zenith683 A paedophile is someone who forces sexual advances onto children, who are unable to consent to sex. Incest is actually pretty common in video games of this type so that argument falls flat on its ass. Racist characters would generally be frowned upon due to the stigma they carry - tell me one successful game that has had a purely racist character. "Misandrist" is a fucking laugh - SHAR-TEEL FROM THE VERY FIRST BALDUR'S GATE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A MISANDRIST AND NOT ONE PERSON COMPLAINED

[@zhoupact8567]

+Mayor Mayer Yepp. I make my own fantasy world. With probably 1000 or so people in it. When I adventure, the caracter blends into their own lifestyle. A farmer, who has been a farmer all their life dont just change for I want the caracter to be a retired dragon rider, and therefore give me an epic wepon. I also cant just go change a caracter who has been running after girls all his life, to become gay. If some event in that caracters life turned him gay sure. But I would not force an event on the caracter. Everything has its flow. A caracter with dreams of a girl, family and kids do not change over somthing happening in our world. A slave will not suddenly become free, over some protest in the real world. I could make a gay caracter as my puppet to change somone I suppose. But first of all, even with a puppet that fits well with the caracter I would try to trun gay. It would not matter if the caracter himself isnt interested. >.> I realy try to have my fantasy world be as natural as possible... At least within its own setting. >.> And maby thats part of why I dislike the ide of somone elses caracter just getting a sudden change out of nowhere. I guess the game or book, becomes its own world in my mind. And I like my worlds to follow their own nature. Theres no miracles in them worlds. Magic, sure. But only in the same sense electric energy could be considerd magic in some worlds. >.> I will stop now.

[@Keldiur]

+Zenith683 A racist character eh? Never played Bioshock Infinite have we?

[@NaskaelWasTaken]

Caim Pact I think that sounds very interesting, I wish i had the patience and creativity to create such a thing.

[@kierkanrufox6641]

Gender changing belt in BG1, Edwin's mishap in BG2. Gender change has been addressed since Baldur's gate's inception. People are dumb. Deal with it.

[@PlayerSkillFTW]

+KierkanRufo X Edwin's mishap was pretty hilarious too. If you introduce him to some male NPCs that hit on female party members, he calls them "male chauvinist pigs" before he realizes what he's saying. Hell, you could even get him to sleep with one of the male prostitutes in the Copper Coronet, when he was in female form, lol.

[@OilFreeFeathers]

Gender swapping as a gimmick is not the same as being transgender. That alone shows how bigoted you actually are despite trying to appear as an ally to woke writers, who are themselves ignorant. It's like you said, "people are dumb". It's just ironic that it applies to you the most.

[@kwhalo4217]

I don't care one way or another about a diverse cast in games. You're gay, you're gay. You're trans, you're trans. You're religious, you're religious, etc. If that's how the characters are intended, then so be it. But I hate rhetoric being shoved down my throat, doesn't matter what it is, and I certainly can't stand SJWs. The writer of this game comes into an interview being antagonistic, ready for a fight. She's trying to piss people off, then she's trying to be controversial. I won't support this game as a result. I don't want her bullshit rhetoric being shoved down my throat.

[@rogergurman1570]

SJW will eventually get more and more people hate homosexuals because of their piss-poor tactics.

[@truesoulghost2777]

***** yup and that shit is happening already

[@Xearrik]

I just checked Steam reviews. I'm having a hard time finding anybody giving it a negative review based on SJW stuff. The negative reviews always mention one of two things. Tons of bugs and bad/cheesy writing.

[@Aradim90]

+Xearrik Gaming Channel Because Beamdog is trying to make this look like it's an attack from GG, they resurrected the movement "journalists" were claiming was dead until a month ago to act as a boogeyman.

[@danparadis3810]

+Xearrik Gaming Channel Hmmm, try harder. They're there alright.

[@danparadis3810]

+Dan Paradis As are criticisms about the bugs, of course.

[@JounLord1]

+Xearrik Gaming Channel Might have pruned the bad comments. I just checked Steam myself and its says mostly positive. Possibly deleted all the negative reviews.

[@Xearrik]

Dan Paradis I did keep looking. I was around 20 reviews in before I found one. They're there, but I think they're using anti SJW people as an excuse for their bad reviews. It appears as if it's just a bad expansion.

[@professortree6065]

I'm personally Christian, but if someone put a Christian character into a video game in a manner similar to the one used in Baldur's Gate, I'd be annoyed, not happy that I was "represented." There's a difference between a relatable character living within a story, and a relatable character being air-dropped in as a selling point.

[@Xero_Kaiser]

I liked it better when RPGs weren't turned into a platform for nonstop discussions on sexuality. Bioware RPGs are especially bad with this. It's not that it offends me, it just doesn't interest me...at all. I here to slay dragons, raid dungeons and get a nice story. This preoccupation with sex/sexuality that's infecting games these days annoys me. Even if you wanted to make some sort of social commentary, why does it always and only have to be about sexuality? Games rarely touch on any social issue that doesn't involve homosexuality in some way.

[@Xero_Kaiser]

***** Yeah, it kinda reminds me of Divinity: Dragon Commander. One of the characters reveals she's a lesbian and from that point on, it's literally the only thing she ever talks about. Her entire personality that she had up until that point in the game just completely evaporates. Yeah, a lot of the characters in that game represent one ideology or another but they can at least discuss a wide range of topics. Not her though, she gets stuck on that one thing. Got old fast.

[@AceStrife]

I was shocked when I saw a notification about a Baldur's Gate expansion on GoG. Then I saw the reviews. Good god, why did they do this?

[@CaedesSkyrim]

+Ace Strife For social justice purposes, unfortunately.

[@legion999]

+Ace Strife Boo fucking hoo, they added a trans character, and a gay character, clearly the expansion is ruined. I see you're not concerned about the quality of the expansion itself, the gameplay or story or dialogue.

[@HawooAwoo]

All the reviews I saw included complaints of bugs as well.

[@AceStrife]

legion999 See reviews: www.gog.com/game/baldurs_gate_siege_of_dragonspear I don't care about a character's race or sexuality; but if this developer is going to bring in this "social justice" stuff into an old established game world and go against the spirit of the original game, then I damn well will never support them. Other game issues aside, from hearing about this over the last few days, it really does look like they need to find a new writer.

[@brandonstrife9738]

They did this to target children with their views.

[@ShapelessFetus]

I liked it in games when characters sexual orientation rarely would be a part of the game at all.

[@taterenforth6433]

Okay so I just finished the game (both bg1 and dragonspear) and I've got to say ... that's it? I only figured out that Glint was lgbt when it came up as an option when asked who I'm most attracted to. Honestly aside from that single line I don't think I saw a single line of dialogue mentioning his sexuality and he was in my party the whole game.

[@willek1335]

They eventually reverted or removed some changes and refined dialogue of the awkward forced bits. This happened years ago after pressure from the community. Good to hear your experience was enjoyable. :) The devs never admitted or apologised for the original case nor arrogant comments they made towards fans.

[@FreedFenrir]

My issue with is not the content itself, but how very, very poorly the content was done. And how... just terrible the developer acted and came about this. An utter disregard for the source material is something you should never have when expanding upon it. Highly distasteful.

[@sdFreerey]

SJWs would absolutely lose it if they played Morrowind and met Crassius Curio.

[@wadeklingler2003]

Which is still the best game in the elder scrolls series

[@MrLurkProduction]

Wade Klingler heretic >_> (daggerfall fan)

[@dreammirrorbrony1240]

Now I'm curious...

[@Seth9809]

Calling yourself a SJW, if like saying you are a hipster. Even Hipsters don't want to call themselves hipsters.

[@JCOdrjones]

I also want to say that the writer really fucked over the lore and characterizations of previous characters, and a lot of BG fans seem to find that to be the real meat of the issue while the forcefulness of the new "characters" (aka, ideals), is just the cherry on top of the shit sundae.

[@BlueEyesWhiteGuy89]

Mundanematt's video goes into great detail, talking about Amber forcing narrative into the game, blaming gamergate, using transgender and gay people as a shield, and generally not caring if people are offended at the changes, if they are offended then they are "misogynistic" and "transphobic"...because it's easy to play those cards when confronted.

[@AngryNerdBird]

A person telling you within seconds of meeting you that they're trans is definitely really weird. In the real world. Where people don't spill their life stories within moments of meeting a protagonist player, and also do not have access to magical potions and equipment that can change their sex easily and allow them to be comfortably themselves with little to no difficulties with transitioning. But in RPGs, NPCs spill their guts about personal life stuff to people they just met all the time. It also makes less sense for being trans to be really taboo when you can easily change your sex, so there's less reason why someone in that type of setting would be afraid to talk about it. Even so, it's obviously unnatural for a character to instantly spill ANY of theire life story just like that to someone, but NPCs in RPGs have been doing that forever, and nobody really questions that. That is, until they start spilling LGBT stuff. Then you get people complaining about how unnatural and forced it is. I've seen a guy get super mad because a woman doctor in a video game casually mentions her wife, as if lesbians should be obligated to keep their lives to themselves because reasons. The single only legitimate complaint I've heard about the trans character conversation is that you're not given multiple options oh now to have that conversation. You don't have the option to be rude about it or otherwise act like an asshole in the dialogue you have with her. That's about it, really.

[@AngryNerdBird]

***** Only if you're also allowed to reject anyone else based on their color or gender or sexual preference, explicitly in conversation with them.

[@ProtoMario]

I already did a video going way indepth on this, but something worse has happened and the devs are now banning people over "Hate speech" when there is none. Its a terrible DLC with lots of glitches, mods, and issues with multiplay, And crashes from a 10 year old engine! What the fuck right?

[@Shpoovy]

+ProtoMario That's because they didn't hire any actual programmers when making that shitfest. They were too busy fighting the patriarchy. *CHECK UR PRIVILEGE, CISSCUM!*

[@KazeVongola]

I am an open minded person, I accept people of all walks of life and everyone is equal in my eyes, no matter what gender, ethnicity or sexual orientation they have. That said, this game has horrible writing, on par with the likes of Twilight and/or 50 shades of grey. That is the sad truth, but even if the writing wasn't a bad fanfiction with purely written for propaganda sake, the game is littered with bugs and the multiplayer (albeit not the main focus) is downright broken. However, even putting the sloppy writing aside and even forgiving the multitude of bugs, my biggest issue with the game is, that they had to do this with a well known game loved by many, just to promote their product better. Obviously more people would buy it than a new idea, heck Baldur's Gate is one of my favorite games and I was overjoyed when I heard this expansion was in the making. In other words, if it was a new game I probably wouldn't have cared as much about all of this drama, but the fact that they sullied one of my favorite games, really rubbed me the wrong way.

[@Cruelty1633]

+Kaze Vongola Usually what SJWs do is subvert and infiltrate an industry, then destroy it from the inside out, kicking out anyone with quality work, until they get to slide through on mediocrity. Bean might have gotten away with it if their consumer base was like Bioware's. But their consumer base is BG2 fans and addicts. Slightly different demographic. How they idiotically broke the Infinity Engine game when modders, like me, could mod it for loads of content with Weidu and it never broke... that I won't get into.

[@hashpond420]

The real tragedy here is that this shitstorm ultimately tarnishes the legacy of one of the greatest RPGs ever made.

[@letummors922]

+Hash Pond Siege Of Drangonspear tarnishes the legacy,it's bugged,has at best mediocre and sometimes cringe worthy writing,the stroy is boring,the antagonist is lame and the whole SJW crap is just what annoys people even more.Oh and the devs insulting the original game.

[@hashpond420]

When I say "shitstorm" I include that someone aside from the original devs release a shitty expansion, along with all the drama. Sorry should have been more clear.

[@Draffut2003]

I didn't even know an expansion had come out for this game. My excitement went from 0 to 11 back to 0 in like 15 seconds.

[@TheJeroenbrouwer]

What also sucks, is that Baldurs gate is known for being able to be whoever and whatever you like to be, good, evil and all allignments in between. But against this trans character, you can only be nice to her. And here i thought trans people just like to be like everyone else. Not a victim, not a political piece, not a special case that needs protection, but just a person, equal to everyone else. Bravo game, bra-fucking-vo.

[@gelmir7322]

+TheJeroenbrouwer i think I'll have a fun time casting an imprisonment spell on that trans characters ass. As far as i know Imprisonment spell has no saving throw.

[@darkblood626]

+TheJeroenbrouwer I've heard you can kill 'her' for 2000XP and no karma penalty.

[@TheJeroenbrouwer]

+Shwagg Krumb Hush now little SJW, go back to bed.

[@TheJeroenbrouwer]

+Shwagg Krumb Im crying about it being too PC. But since im probably just feeding a troll, congratulations. You got me.

[@gelmir7322]

Shwagg Krumb me... i abuse any virtual character regardless of their implied mental confusion and/or sexual issues... so an unabusable virtual character is a disgusting act of social injustice and inequality (virtually speaking)... . we cant have an elite priviledge class that is immune to the Straight Sword of Utter Smiting +5... (+10 against non-straight and biologically dead end creatures) please give me your support on this issue. i think this is a worthy cause

[@ChrisStoneinator]

But I haven't seen a single negative review that talks about this. The problem is the fucking bugs in the update, not the expansion! Also, from what I hear, there's an item in Baldur's Gate that changes your gender somewhere in the lore. So this is just a transgender character for the sake of it. Also, the new character is not very well written so it doesn't feel genuine to begin with, just diversity for the sake of diversity. My biggest issue is, what the fuck did they expect?!?! You can't go rewriting characters from a classic game and adding new ones which make no sense in the lore and are just there to somehow represent modern culture, THEN put in a joke that takes a stab at games media for worrying about these things without some sort of backlash.

[@abentwookie]

+Chris Stone Ed Greenwood, the freaking creator of the entire universe in which the game is set, said that LGBT exist in that world. Its HIS creation and you are going to tell him it goes against it? Seriously?

[@ChrisStoneinator]

Sarah Santos I'm just going from what I've heard. Hence the phrase, "From what I hear". And none of this addresses the main problem that the users aren't actually mentioning this at all, and games media is twisting the stats to say that all the negative reviews are about the trans character, whereas they are in fact almost exclusively due to bugs in the new patch.

[@kanklez]

+Chris Stone Way to change ones sex in Dungeons and Dragons while not super common aren't at all rare within the context of an adventure. I've never gone out of my way to include them but just through GMing and using some precon dungeons when they seemed useful or using the tables of magic items for random loot my players have found a non insignificant number of ways to change sex if they were to want to use them. I would expect that if a character wanted to change their sex by level five to ten they probably could find a way.

[@abentwookie]

Chris Stone Well, that is a blatant lie. The majority of people who have been complaining about the game over at Beamdog's forum have been complaining mostly about the GamerGate joke and the transgendered character. They have had to delete a ton of posts and ban some people but there are still A LOT of posts on there. Far more than the people complaining about bugs.

[@morsletum5348]

+Sarah Santos If he fucks up his own narrative for Political Correctness yes -I think it is bullshit.

[@jordexo3047]

This is actually something I'm starting to get tired of, do not get me wrong I have absolutely nothing against putting in characters of different sexualities as I also have friends of all kinds as Boogie does but why do companies just put them in as some form of "Oh if we do this we'll get good attention for it." You don't *need* to put in those kinds of characters for the sake of pleasing people in fact I'd go as far as to say that most people would not want that. You wanna put in a gay character? Go ahead! As long as you actually write them properly and make them feel like they were meant to be there as part of your plan and not just put in to satisfy people. I remember back when the whole MKX thing happened where they apparently confirmed Kung Jin as gay even though it had absolutely nothing to do with the story and there was no real reason as to why we needed this information. If their sexuality is not relevant to the game in terms of story then it does not need to be revealed. Games such as Dragon Age or Mass Effect for example have characters of different sexualities and the game tells us this information as it is relevant to the story as your character can engage in a relationship with them. If the whole relationship system wasn't in the game then we would not need to know this information as it has no relevance. Would you just blurt out that you're gay to a stranger? No because they do not need to know this. Will the person who delivers my pizza have to tell me they're Transgender? No and I wouldn't want to know, because it has nothing to do with me nor the fact I'm ordering bloody pizza. Again, if you want to have these characters in your games, your movies etc then put them in by all means but do not put them in just to satisfy certain people and shove it down the rest of our throats. You do *not* need to add them in if you don't want to.

[@Serocco]

Fallout actually does polyamory very well - it's just another choice that you gotta find out on your own. As long as Baldur's Gate doesn't really advertise it, and people only find out, there you go.

[@Avanger1304]

Just hope this man never dies, the world needs a boogie to see things how they are.

[@TMFlesh]

I also think the issues with massive bugs and UI issues was worth being mentioned here. While the writing was certainly part of what people disliked about the game it wasn't the only problem. The writing only gets the main focus because the devs are trying to force a connection between disliking the expansion and gamergate.

[@hodkinson774]

There is a difference between someone just being transgender and bringing unnecessary attention to it. isn't this just as bad as pointing at someone in a crowd and screaming "This guy is transgender! EVERYONE DID YOU HEAR THAT!?"

[@Terwox]

Hammerlock is gay. Huh, I didn't pick up on that. The again his sexual preference isn't something I would care about even if I had picked up on it. He's still the same awesome character.

[@TheCommentGuy8]

This is my reaction to the Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear Expansion pack. And also, this reaction comes from someone who's almost 23-years-old. >I see Beamdog just released an EXP. for Baldur's Gate on Steam. >I think to myself ''...What? why? why revisit Baldur's Gate with an EXP. Pack this late? Why not make an HD directors-cut port of Planescape:Torment? >I press the ''Add to your wishlist''-button. >I tell myself ''I will buy this game as #1 during the summer sale. Baldur's Gate is a cult classic beloved by many'' >*A couple of days later* >I see Boogie2988 uploaded a new video. Let's see here... What? >I notice that the video is called ''Why People HATE Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear''. What? why? I thought people loved the original Baldur's Gate? >*I watch the entire video* >What? no... NO... NO!!! NOOOOOO!!!! >THAT'S NOT FAIR! THAT'S NOT F***ING FAIR! >HOW DARE YOU SJWS SMEAR YOUR SHIT ALL OVER A CULT CLASSIC!!! >*after calming down, I shake my head slowly in disbelief* ...It breaks my heart that yet another company caves in to SJWs. >I press the ''thumbs-up''-button to support Boogie2988 argument. I also add the video to my favourites list. >I go back to my Steam page. >I press the ''Wishlist'' in the upper corner. >I scroll down below. >I press the ''remove'' on Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear on my ''wishlist'' >I go back to the Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear store-page and press the ''not interested''-button >Done. Beamdog, I never want to see you again. This is a disgrace to your current fanbase. Thank you for the warning Boogie2988. Keep up the good work.

[@Avrysatos]

+TheCommentGuy8 Coming from someone who's 10 years older than you and played the shit out of the original baldurs gate games I have two things to say. 1. They totally need to make an updated hd port of planescape torment. 2. It's like 1 character with 3 lines of dialogue that doesn't hit on you and doesn't do anything? Hell you can also just kill them. So people are losing their shit over a few lines of dialogue and I still can't figure out if the REST of the game is any good. I'm not going to say fuckthis i'm not going to buy it, I don't care about a diverse cast or not but pissing my pants over a few lines of text is something I grew out of ten years ago. ..mainly though I just want a hd port of planescape torment.

[@unritardatoqualsiasi]

+AmaranteStryfe give them a finger and they'll take the entire arm. By the way i have nothing against trans and gay people, i'm against forcing them into stories for the sake of diversity and completely changing some characters because the new devs didn't like them, anyways why the fuck was this team doing the expansion if they think the game is sexist and makes them uncomfortable.

[@Relytia]

+unritardatoqualsiasi Name a game with characters like that that you thought was well done. I'm curious. I thought Anders in DAII was a bit much, and it felt really weird to have Kaiden hit on me at a cafe all of a sudden in Mass Effect 3, but Dragon Age Inquisition did a fantastic job with its characters imo. Yet people often bash all three games. Seriously, it seems like whenever a game has a "diverse" cast, people say it's forced no matter what.

[@unritardatoqualsiasi]

Relytia right now i honestly can't think of any i've played that had gay characters i even noticed except for the ones that seem very gay but you're never sure if they are like taric in lol or vert in neptunia but there's what boogie mentioned which is borderlands 2 and the pre sequel which i liked a lot but i didn't even know there were gay characters in those before seeing the video.

[@unritardatoqualsiasi]

Relytia P.S. didn't really feel forced in mass effect 3 since it would only happen if you flirted with a character of the same sex but i haven't played mass effect 3 that much so how i'd do it would be by either having a very "flamboyant" character because it's just a type of character, nothing wrong with that, or by only knowing it if that character's sexual preference actually matters, for example if you flirt with them. As for transexual characters, why even mention it, if they want to be of the opposite sex just make them say they're of the opposite sex.

[@dhoffnun]

Look I'm kind of a nice guy and can empathize with just about anybody and believe they mean well - and I believe this lady, in her own way, meant well - but holy crap, man. Talk about the *absolute worst possible choices* to make in context. *Established Sins in the Videogame World:* - Screwing with the story of a classic: *check* - Changing the personality of established characters: *check* - Identifying as an "SJW" (even if you are what in the final fantasy are you thinking saying that out loud you idiot): *check* - Proudly stating an agenda wildly unpopular with your customer base: *check* *Tact Level: Rodent Of Unusual Size*

[@Vinge327]

+David Hoffnung I think just the first 2 are enough to convince long time lovers of Baldur's Gate to not pick up the expansion. I agree with your assessment of the choices made

[@AbeDillon]

- Screwing with the story of a classic: check They didn't change the story. - Changing the personality of established characters: check Who? Safana? If you play the game, her attitude makes sense because she just finished a loud break-up with Coran. The dialog directly after that has about two lines before she's back to her super flirty self because she's in a bad mood. - Identifying as an "SJW" (even if you are what in the final fantasy are you thinking saying that out loud you idiot): check Oh no! can't have opinions that "gamers" hate! Mussn't express one's opinions! Bad woman! Bad! - Proudly stating an agenda wildly unpopular with your customer base: check OH NO! Mussn't be proud of taking a stance on an issue! Bad woman! Bad! Media would be so much better if we cleansed it of anything that could offend people. Certainly, none of the best media has any political agenda. That's why Star Wars with its... STORM TROOPERS... is so good. You know. Because it's a-political. That's why Baldur's Gate with Viconia, the drow elf who's persecuted because of her race, is so good. No politics in that one. Should I go on? While we're on the topic. One of the two pieces of dialogue that got everyone's panties in a twist was Minsc saying "Really it's all about ethics in heroic adventuring". That's it. Did you catch the reference? It vaguely references a meme about "gamergate". If you're not very familiar, I suggest watching the KZbin video "The Fate of the Frog Men" by Shaun. Anyway, the funny thing is that I've been looking all over for reviews that will tell me if this game is worth playing. I finally found one that brushes the ridiculous outrage aside and *actually reviewed the game* concluding, "it's not great, but it's not bad. I'd give it a 7/10". Good enough for me. So the "ethics" in game reviewing culture seems to be, write an inordinate amount of bullshit about two lines of dialogue that are in no way important to the story while saying nothing about the actual gameplay. Great. Thanks gamergate babies! Your incessant whining is insufferable! Go eat a bucket of fire ants you brainless fucks!

[@UnivegaSuperSport]

Progress isn't made by trying to FORCE attitude changes on people. Progress is made by creating the conditions for people to change their own attitudes.

[@fucheduck]

maybe they don't want to change. maybe you should.

[@UnivegaSuperSport]

It's not a matter of "should" change. Change is inevitable. The trick is creating the conditions for positive change.

[@politicallycorrectredskin796]

That implies that their attitudes are somehow objectively wrong, which is the core problem of identity politics. The people spouting these ideas pretend to be inclusive and tolerant, right up to the point anyone disagrees with them about anything. Then you notice that they are the least tolerant people on the planet. Their views are universal truth and anything else is ignorant, male chauvinism, "gender biased" and evil. Etc etc etc. And that is why no one wants to listen to a word they say so that they need to infest existing media like Baldur's Gate.

[@Zaarin-yu8sj]

Are you actually talking about a 6 line shopkeeper?

[@politicallycorrectredskin796]

So shit writing is OK if it's just six lines? What's the upper limit for how long something can be shit before it becomes a problem for you?

[@Kisamaism]

I loved SoD... it was fine. Who was looking for mountains in this mole hill? MY gripe was only that the content was non-canon - it didn't impact BG2 story in any way.

[@MurrayTheMac]

That's ... not what canon means.

[@Makrokosmos]

Why hate it? Because ToB ended on such a high note. Really, it boggles the mind why they thought that going back to early mid levels would be fun or engaging. Craft a damn story and gimme ma god like heroes back.

[@hnhenrique2984]

Gay and trans people are just normal people as everybody else. So why does SJW love to make one note characters that just know how to tell others about their lifestyle? It's not about making this subject subtle, it don't need to be subtle, it needs to me natural and well written. I think trans and gay people would agree with me that their sexuallity is not the only memorable personality traits, so why characters in a RPG should be the same?

[@urduib]

+Hn Henrique Yeah i never understod why people have something against what people do with their junk, or if they have a heavier sun tan than other people. Funny thing is, many white people want heavy sun tan but they dislike people that beat them to it, get over it ffs it´s just a sun tan :)

[@PedroIgori]

+Hn Henrique look at transistor to see how it should be done, 3 of the 4 antagonists are homosexual and you can easily miss it, just like in real life because people don't usually walk around with neon signs telling people that they are gay

[@hnhenrique2984]

urduib I agree with you, dont know abou the white thing because if I go to the sun for 5 minutes I probably get cancer but I agree about that. Let charactets be characters and not just tokens.

[@urduib]

Hn Henrique Well im zombie white so i feel your sun burns the same way :)

[@SetzarothTV]

"progressive" If this shit was normal you wouldn't need to "slowly boil the frog"

[@Kyllvan]

+SetzarothTV You know, he's right about it actually. You apply regressive values slowly, so the culture doesn't notice anything wrong until it's already dead.

[@MrItsaplane]

+SetzarothTV Normal is entirely subjective.......what you consider normal COMES from 'slowly boiling the frog' every single thing in your life you consider normal.

[@WOranos]

If you are a Steam user, beware of the game rating that now is listed as "Mostly Positive". The developers begged their SJW drone sycophants to give them positive reviews and that's just what they did. Although there are now currently many more positive reviews for the game than negative, look carefully at them and you'll notice a huge discrepancy in the number of people who agree with those shill reviews, versus those who agree with the fewer number of negative ones. SJWs have been busily skewing the the review section to favor the game but the vast majority of users consider the negative reviews to be more accurate. The developer has been manipulating the review system to mislead potential buyers by misrepresenting what gamers actually think of their game. SJWs at their finest.

[@Kojak0]

+Wrath Oranos I noticed that when opening steam, it does read "mostly positive", but the entire first page is made up by negative comments... Before I learned about this, I simply thought the Steam client had gotten a bug or something. I'm off now actually to go look for some of the positive reviews.

[@dolgy3762]

there's one thing fans of good games hate most, it's sequels or expansions that don't stay true to the source material and that's it.

[@AxiomofDiscord]

I think D&D gets hurt the most. They have been very take it or leave it with such themes in the tabletop game. This seems to go against WOTC's approach to D&D and these minorities.

[@greeneking77]

+Aberran Fox I hate WOTC (HASBRO)

[@AxiomofDiscord]

greeneking77 OK?

[@jankostrhun8725]

+Aberran Fox DnD had ANY approach to minorities?

[@informationchef]

+Jan Kostrhun well, let's ask Ed Greenwood, the designer of Forgotten Realms. "Folks, the Realms have ALWAYS had characters (mortals and deities) who crossdressed, changed gender (and not just to sneak past guards in an adventure, by way of shapeshifting magic or illusions), were actively bisexual, and openly gay." facebook.com/TheEdVerse/posts/10153297537221534

[@jankostrhun8725]

informationchef Ok, I am not sure I really buy... It seem like gay porn director saying he was always pro-LGBT rights and because it gay people were always present in his work. But I've never really thought about it, basic DnD settings were always more like current humans set into medieval-ish world in many regards so technically it promotes gender and race equality at the very least I guess.

[@1andOnlyJDauntless]

I don't have any problems with individuals: sexuality, religion, faith, or beliefs, just don't try to offer me that knowledge unless I make the first step to learn it from you.

[@Zante_on_google]

I think few people have issues with gay or trans characters, I think the main issue is the gay and trans cutouts that are clumsily shoved into the story because there has to be a show of diversity. Example: There might be a professor in a game or a film which is a mentor and guide to the main character. Let's say this professor is gay. The fact that this professor is gay may never come up except for maybe a couple of casual references to his life partner if they happen to come up in conversation witch might even go unnoticed. Just like in real life. That is what I see as a well written character in this sense. ... or the professor can introduce himself to the player or audience with "I'm gay you know, I've had a hard life" coming out of nowhere. That is a gay cutout shoved into the story "because diversity". Now... I have not played this game, I wish I had the time, but from the comments of people whose judgement I trust, I gather that here we're talking about the second case: minority cutouts shoved into the narrative because they need tokens for diversity.

[@ancientarts6019]

+Zante Akame-ga-kill Has one of it's major characters as Openly gay, Has far as I'm aware nobody has had a out cry about it, Because.. His role wasn't simpley being Gay, He was a Mentor ETC. So I fully agree it's more about the introduction and lack of meat on the character.

[@peoples2296]

+Zante you haven't played this game. That says it all. Baldur's Gate is not the slightest bit based on reality. Its a fantasy game where random characters come up to the hero and tell you things all the time. Its how you learn about about the world and the characters. The game has hundreds of characters in it and doesn't spend any time slowly developing any of them. They get a few lines of dialogue each and that is it. People are demanding movie-level writing from a game that never had it in the first place. Its nonsense.

[@Seth9809]

+Blase Blah Even Neverwinter Knights was like that, and it came out a bit later.

[@Zante_on_google]

Blase Blah I have played Baldur's Gate, I meant I haven't played this particular incarnation of it. As for the rest, I know what you mean. When I go to do some shopping I don't need to know all the backstory, relationships and motivations of the guy giving me my change.

[@SurrealLeaf]

+Ancient Arts But on other hand, there is lesbian NPC, on The Division, that has ONE LINE in the game referring to her wife. Thats it. One. Line. And one quest (spoilers). And people threw hissy fit over it, claiming "PC" and "forcefully shoving diversity" into gaming. People who are against diversity will never be happy no matter how subtle it will be. So all these "oh its fine as long its subtle" is just another "Gays are fine AS LONG AS THEY DONT GO OUT IN PUBLIC"

[@YuriPRIMErpg]

*Let me put it this way:* Remember Dorian from Dragon Age Inquisition? Seen people nag about him being gay? No. Remember the trans elf from Witcher 3? Heard people whine about him being trans? No. You know why? Cause both those characters were... characters, developed, with personalities, and we don't learn about their preferences deep down into the game. Now look at Beamdog's character... Some people say "What's the fuss?! It's just 30 seconds of dialogue! Big deal" - what you don't get it, that's exactly the case. 30 seconds into a dialogue, a character wags it's flag left and right, cause it's a political statement from the devs. Once that's said the interactions with her are done... That's it, "Farewell friend!" - nothing else. That's the entire character's purpose. Combine that with their alterations to Minsc and others you can just see they smeared their shit all over established franchise. And hey! Hey! If they wanted to MAKE the statement? Then why are they mad the public showed them their finger? It's also a statement.

[@bgm1975]

Don't forget Krem from Dragon Age:Inquisiton, Iron Bull's right hand man, who is transgender. Nobody really complained about him at all, and he was an interesting character with a good story.

[@YuriPRIMErpg]

bgm1975 True! No issue with solid character being a character and by the way, gay or trans or whatever. But when they spend time and money to just simply put stickers with slogans all over the game and franchise like in case of Dragonspear, that's just shitty writing and should be called out on what it is. Take another token bullshit character - Steve from Mass Effect 3. A generic, boring ass man who in second dialogue line mentions he's gay and needs support. What a lame excuse and a waste of space...

[@AbeDillon]

*we don't learn about their preferences deep down into the game.* So... How long did you have to wait to learn about Safana's sexuality in the original BG? How many examples in media are there where heterosexual characters wait all of 30 seconds to make their orientation known? How many games, sitcoms, movies, etc. exist where we know a character is heterosexual almost immediately? I get it. The writing sucks and the characters are flat. I just think everyone is pointing to bullshit reasons for why it is that way. It can't just be that the writer is a bad writer. It has to relate to some bigger picture, right? No. It doesn't. There's plenty of media that's well written that has a diverse cast of characters and it doesn't even matter how soon you learn about it. One of the characters in "Mean Girls" is introduced as "too gay to function" and that had nothing to do with how interesting the character was. *why are they mad the public showed them their finger? It's also a statement.* The exact same logic works both ways. Why are gamers mad that Beamdog wanted to make a statement?

[@Bjorick]

@@AbeDillon here's the thing, when you declare a character as being 'something', you're taking away teh ability for the character to be 'anything'. I can go through the world of BG and see chars how i want, this person is gay, this person is trans, t his person is straight, this person i wizard pretending to be a chicken these thigns don't need to be stated UNLESS you're trying to force a view, or it pertains to the plot. Typically, it doesn't ppertain to the plot, and unless you're trying to seduce someone, or you're having a friendly convo with a char (alister, as a male, in DA:O), sex shouldn't come up. If it does, it should fit somehow, for example, talking to a friendly char in your party about having feelings for one of yoru companions, and them saying they can udnerstand, they used to be attracted to x who is the same gender. That would fit. Saying that you feel like something is wrong since you fought x boss awhile back, like something just feels different inside you, and the char saying they've felt like that their whole life. That would fit. Going up to a merchant and asking, 'can I see your wares' and them responding, 'sure, but only after you know that i'm bi and this is my story'. nah, that's BS.

[@gator36]

If I wanted sex topics in my electronic media, I'd watch porn. I don't care, nor would I ask, my party members their sex preferences before we tried to kill a dragon.

[@bestieswithtesties]

+gator36b This is the perfect comment. It's a video game about killing shit and exploring etc. No one gives a fuck what the characters sexual preference is in a game like this. What a retarded topic to force into the game. No. One. Cares.

[@leobat7007]

Sir Hammerlock being gay was so subtle, I didn't know until now!

[@leobat7007]

+Tom N I've just read it on the wiki. I remember the quest, but I totally missed the "boyfriend" part. Anyway, it was handled pretty well.

[@Superschokokeks]

+Leo Bat yeah. Like it's normal and nothing special. How we should handle such stuff..

[@leobat7007]

Superschokokeks Wouldn't you rather have a nice lecture about the evil of heteronormativity?

[@Superschokokeks]

Leo Bat Leo Bat the evil heteronormativity? I'm curios. Just to make clear: I wanted to say that homosexuality, should be treated like you would hetero

[@leobat7007]

Superschokokeks It was a joke about the way sjws have a habit of "educating" people.

[@DuelaDent52]

Quick question - have any of the people involved in the original Baldur's Gate returned for the Emchanced Edition and/or the expansions?

[@kuted]

+tom fegan meh

[@Bobbobbymike]

+tom fegan I tried but the magic simply wasnt there

[@Ultrox007]

+tom fegan I just re-bought the originals on gog's D&D Bundle.

[@tarsiusbancanus5279]

+tom fegan I for one have done, but it's hard to tell anything by asking on KZbin.

[@Slythistle]

+tom fegan A bit late, and I apologize, but they did get several of the voice actors to return. David Gaider, who worked on BG2 and ToB did recently join Beamdog, but I'm not sure if it was before or after SoD, or if he had any influence on it at all.

[@Falcrist]

I wouldn't say it's "OK" for people to leave bad reviews because they don't like "diverse characters". I'd say it's "their right", but it's not exactly "OK". Bad reviews for shitty writing - on the other hand - are AOK with me. Helps me avoid bad games.

[@semuta2752]

Even if the expansion isn't well written, the original is still dynamite! I'll say the second is more rewarding mentally, as the games aren't very forgiving

[@OMGEpyonistaken]

These writters always define their characters by what they are not who they are, just like they define people in real life.

[@DrunkenDeer]

honestly I dont want dumb characters in one of my childhood games, I want more diverse monsters, traps ect. I utterly refuse to buy this for some time untill those gender changing characters are removed with mods. baldurs gate is not a platform for these social justice prats to use, its a spit in the face of a classic game. If they wanted to cry about these issues make a new damn modern game for a modern isssue.

[@legion999]

+Drunken Deer Why are you not bitching about the npcs they added earlier to the enhanced edition? To the primary campaign no less? For SOME reason, it's only the gay and trans npcs that bother you.

[@VioletTheGeek]

+Akagi-Senpai What determines which stories "need" diversity and which don't? Are we to believe that players who are not heterosexual white males shouldn't have characters in most stories that they can relate to? Why should these types of characters be excluded from certain games? What makes Baldur's Gate one of the games that shouldn't have transgender or gay or bisexual characters in it? Oh, by the way, how very magnanimous of you (sarcasm) that you "don't mind diversity at all." (Nevermind that you make it clear that you *do* mind diversity with the very next statement.) Now, if you want to talk about poorly written characters, that's a whole other story. But I don't think having a diverse cast of well-written characters is anything to be afraid of (not that I'm saying that these particular characters in the recent BG expansion are well-written, but I digress).

[@DrunkenDeer]

+legion999 just to clarify it doesnt bother me and to think so is laughable, the enhanced eddition of baldurs gate added small amounts of content and bonus npcs but fixed a tonne of scripting isshes, you would of thaught that the races in the game would be enough diversity anyway. this is im guessing a standalone expansion I assume similar like tales of sword coast which means there should be an emphasis on expanding the world not just a bunch of scripted undertoned moral messages. most gamers who played this game are in their late 20's so its pretty stupid providing this to an audience of mature aged gamers who know this kind of stuff already.

[@magicaljellyfish]

+Akagi-Senpai Baldur's Gate is a game based on d&d, which has been about possibility, diversity, and unity. If Beamdog is the DM in this scenario you just have to deal. I just don't think that the main people complaining are d&d or even Baldur's Gate fans.

[@magicaljellyfish]

Yeah np, I'm not arguing whether it's heavy handed or not, but strictly speaking even in the official sourcebooks transgender, nonbinary gender or whatever else is talked about and not discouraged. WOTC just want to encourage everyone to get involved and to add their own narrative, and for it to be accessible to everyone. That's the direction the company has been in for a long time so it's pretty representative of the source material to include it m

[@awordabout...3061]

I couldn't care less about characters being gay, transexual, black, or romantically excited by bicycle pumps. I just thought the trans character in question was very poorly written. Surely, in a setting as rich as this which Baldur's Gate takes place in, there is room for a well-written transgender character rather than the seemingly lazy approach the writers took to getting the character in question in.

[@FranciscoLaprea]

If you introduce a heterosexual "ladie's man" character that talks a lot about his sexuality and banging woman, it's passed as comedy and nobody gives a fuck. If you introduce a homosexual/trans character, you have to be VERY careful and perfectly well written into the story, otherwise people will loose their minds.... seems legit

[@Novashadow115]

+Francisco Laprea the ladies man was not thrusted into a game with identity politics in mind.