Signs You Might Be A Bad Driver! - The Carmudgeon Show w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott - Ep 151

Let's have some fun coming up with a list of things that other drivers do that piss you off! Make sure to comment below!
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This episode is sponsored by Vyper Industrial - America’s #1 rated shop chair, tool carts, and creepers, proudly made here in the US. Go to www.vyperindustrial.com/ and use code HAGERTY for $50 off on all your order!
Click here to join the Hagerty Driver's Club: bit.ly/Join-HDC-Cammisa-Rev
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In this episode, Jason prompts Derek to come up with a list of 5 Signs You Might Be a Bad Driver.
Derek came up with one. Jason came up with a Biblical List of Driving Crimes, including:
1. If you're not angry, you're probably the problem.
2. If people are mad at you, you might be a bad driver.
3. If people are mad at you, and you don't know why, you're DEFINITELY a bad driver.
4. If you don't know the rules, you're a bad driver.
5. If you don't pull over to let people pass on a California road, you're a bad driver.
6. If you don't (always) use turn signals, you're a bad driver.
7. If your passengers can feel your lane changes, you're a bad driver.
8. If you don't use vehicular body language, you're a bad driver.
9. If your passengers' heads are bobbing around from your control inputs, you are a bad driver.
10. If you have worn out a clutch, you're probably a bad driver. (There are exceptions.)
11. If you hold a phone while driving, you're a bad driver.
12. If you don't rev-match, you're probably not a good driver.
13. If you don't double-clutch into 1st... you know the drill.
14. If you don't warm up your car, guess what? Bad driver.
15. If you don't hold the steering wheel at 9:00 or 3:00 (or anywhere not 180º apart) you're definitely a bad driver.
16. If you drink and drive, Jason has no respect for you and hopes you get arrested before you hurt someone else. If you hurt yourself, good.
17. You don't know why the ESP or Traction Control light is flashing, you are a bad driver.
18. If you haven't read your owner's manual, you might be a bad driver.
19. If you don't understand the Zipper Merge, you're not just a bad driver, you're a c-word.
20. If you break the law for the convenience of others, you're a bad driver.
21. If you don't care that you're inconveniencing someone else, you're a bad driver.
22. If you speed up when being passed, you're guilty of attempted murder.
And finally,
23. If you are the host of the Carmudgeon Show, you're definitely a bad driver. :)
Let us know what we forgot to include!

[@TheReboot]

I’m with Derek on turn signals. Signal your intentions, not your actions.

[@williamgechtman9287]

If you use a turn signal ahead of time, that allows someone a chance to take that spot ahead of you. That is why one uses what I refer to as the "Jersey signal," used as one changes lanes. One uses a Jersey signal to let others know that you are not merely swerving, this lane change is intentional and will continue until completed, so they better act accordingly. Offensive, as opposed to defensive driving, if you will. In general, however, I firmly believe in signaling your intention, not your actions. I do not want to know *why* I hit you, I want to *avoid* hitting you.

[@henrywu4450]

Yeah, it show's that Jason's from the NYC area. Lots of people do that because other driver's are A-holes and block you off.

[@chris_flies]

A signal should be a declaration of impending action, not a request.

[@Kalepsis]

Yes. Signal first. Always, ALWAYS. What Jason said is dangerous. And illegal in some states.

[@RonJobbins]

EVERYONE needs to hear this. This is the way

[@brianpederson7315]

unfortunately, every driver that needs to hear this, will never hear this.

[@eugenux]

you really have poor driving standards in the States.

[@Kalepsis]

Send the link to people who need to hear it.

[@paulmarentette5346]

@@eugenux No question. Good driving is not just critical to public safety, motoring etiquette is a life skill that sadly too many in the US have no concept of, not too differently than lacking appreciation of finesse in other areas of life.

[@eugenux]

@@paulmarentette5346 fully agree!, what I don't understand is why the government is so slack about drivers licenses; I will use examples from motorcycling as I know two things which ppl here in Europe learn at the driving schools and have timed examinations on, while in the states, these are classified as advance training; ffs, on a motorcycle, every ride can literally be your last and so the reason for which these type of things are left out begs belief, imo; the two examples are: figure 8(a tight figure 8) and counter-steering; I've been puzzled when I saw a content creator on motorcycling industry saying how he started, after years of riding, an advanced course for riding and these two were among the first things he was taught. Ffs, in Europe, you need to be able to do a tight, 1st gear, figure 8 between the 5 and the 8th-10th riding school hours; counter-steering is taught also around 10th hour; if these are advanced lessons in riding, what are the real advance lessons called?, special ops riding lessons or what? And if that's the standard on motorcycles, when it is, literally, about life and death every time you ride, what are the standards of driving? Honestly, if ppl would drive in Europe, in, let's say Germany, I think they would get beaten every time they would venture on the roads at the wheel of a vehicle. Ppl with such understanding about driving and such lack of skills shouldn't be allowed to drive 2 tons of steel, wires and plastic as, in their hands, that is a weapon, not a transport vehicle.

[@mipko]

I am with Derek on lane change... First turn signal, then body language

[@catsspat]

Absolutely! Turn signal tells other drivers, hey I want to change lane. Other drivers can then pay attention to the slow body language. Body language first is nonsense.

[@vadimgoryunov]

Jason would fail a driving exam in UK with the body language first

[@leviathan5207]

I don't want people like him driving on the Autobahn!!! Such behaviour is a surefire way to get yourself and others in danger, if not killed!

[@TML34]

As a BMW driver, I found the talk on turn signals fascinating. I’ve never heard of them before, but may look into it now.

[@tonyclewes8]

BMW drivers exempt for indicator use in UK

[@henryford6514]

its ok i know most BMW drivers just turned 20 and think the world is XBOX Live. Do you stand on the roof?

[@tonyclewes8]

@@henryford6514 BMW compatible blinker fluid not sold in the UK

[@christopherjohnston6343]

I once drove a BMW and then suddenly lost the ability to indicate correctly

[@richardbartonicek2363]

I just bought BMW E90 with the retarded "returs to original position" stocks. And I still use turn signals more often than majority of the cars I meet.

[@ShaneCombs-t2b]

Not knowing you have your high beams on while among other drivers.. YOU'RE BLINDING EVERYONE. Ok I feel better

[@ChoPi-Eww]

Or pretty much anything with poorly aimed headlights.

[@Tarmac76]

THIS!!!!!!!

[@atmartens]

@@ChoPi-Eww I really wish vehicle inspections were more common.

[@tylerbecker3348]

Haven't watched a second of this weeks ep, but just came here to say WIPERS ON = LIGHTS ON

[@Druezy]

Amen brother!

[@JasonCammisa]

YES YES AND MORE YES!

[@akun24]

Most modern vehicles that have automatic headlights will turn on when you run the wipers. That said, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[@thewyattfletcher]

Good general practice, but there are exceptions. For example, it's common enough in Florida to need wipers sometimes even if it's clear blue skies; you don't need lights in those cases.

[@YouRedix]

In some countries in Europe, you're required to have your main beams on at all times of day. Can't say a single bad thing about this policy. Get in the car, engine on, seatbelt on, lights on, then drive, no matter what

[@Druezy]

The old saying goes "If one person tells you that you have a tail they are joking with you, if two people tell you that you have a tail they are ganging up on you, if three people tell you that you have a tail turn around."

[@DC5Brandon]

The worst is drivers who don't actively merge right after passing on the Interstate. They pass another driver on the left, but they don't merge back to the lane they were in, so you have 95% of commuters driving at or below the speed limit in the middle and left lanes. This makes the right lane practically empty and the new fastest "left" lane to pass everyone else.

[@williamgechtman9287]

I have often used the fact that the right lane is the new left lane in order to avoid traffic. I cruise along at or above the speed limit in the right lane while those in the two "faster" lanes to my left toodle along in traffic.

[@01hafkee]

Epi 10, "Bad Drivers: tormenting left-lane bandits is community service! " was a major topic.

[@thewyattfletcher]

You're a bad driver if your convenience is your highest priority on the road. You're a bad driver if you're only concerned with whether you will make it through a light, especially during high traffic times. Relatedly, you're a bad driver if you run lights and end up stopped in an intersection. You're a bad driver if you obliviously block intersections at cross streets. You're a bad driver if you purposely do things to make negotiating traffic difficult for others.

[@michaelking6596]

If you don't enjoy driving, don't think it requires focus, don't think you need awareness you are probably a bad driver

[@PigglyWigglyDeluxe]

You just described Autopilot and FSD lol

[@lazyboxfish7113]

I don't think that you need to enjoy driving in order to be a good driver. The rest of your argument is definitely true though.

[@kenchen704]

Fr, I can’t be friends with someone like that

[@kenchen704]

@@lazyboxfish7113never seen someone actually good at driving who did not enjoy driving

[@michaelking6596]

@@lazyboxfish7113 it wasn't an all or nothing comment... There are people who enjoy driving but are also belligerent and lack any spatial awareness.. But in general if people don't enjoy something they tend not to be good at it as they don't want to be doing it.

[@richardbartonicek2363]

I also agree with Derek on the turn signals. In Europe everyone drives purposefully - you can tell it’s a lane change and not driver distracted. So as a non-oblivious driver, my reaction is always the same when a car in front of me starts the lane change maneuver and then signals: “Thanks for nothing, too late to have the intended effect.”

[@mathewhumvee]

Your a bad driver when you don't MAINTAIN YOUR VEHICLE. I understand car costs are crazy, and for a majority of people are a necessity of life/work. BUT PLEASE when you are driving around with bald tires, fried brakes, burnt out lights, and bumpers hanging off the car, you are a BAD DRIVER.

[@jebidiahcarlyon3543]

I'd like to add: broken windows replaced with plastic bags

[@mathewhumvee]

@@jebidiahcarlyon3543 That depends, normally yes, but if your going to get it repaired that is acceptable.

[@melondoc]

@@jebidiahcarlyon3543 If you park in San Francisco you need some kind of solution to cover your window while you head on over to your regular glass repair shop

[@amyboehm802]

Yes! So much this. (my fault for not paying attention far enough ahead) but, nearly had a little kiss with a hooptie Civic with NO BRAKE lights on the way home from work today.

[@leviathan5207]

I thank Germany for mandatory safety inspections every 2 years. Keeps a lot of JUNK off the road!

[@brownwhale5518]

“When I drive I’m 100% sure that I’m the best driver I encounter.” Says everyone.

[@Loothansa]

Phase 1 of the Dunning-Kruger scale

[@tylerbecker3348]

Conversely, when I see people move right on the highway to let others pass I think, "damn, they know what's up"

@@tylerbecker3348 In The Netherlands that's a normal thing

[@richardbartonicek2363]

8 billion people on this planet and somehow I'm the best driver... I once happen to go behind a van for about 2 klicks, and then I seriously considered following them wherever they went, and thank them for being a good driver - fluent, reasonably paced, predictable ride, lights on, turn signals used, stopped to let pedestrians cross. Such an exceptional and unusual moment for me.

[@a_dubs_]

My favorite bumper sticker: if you got passed on the right, getting the Fk out of the left.

[@falcolombardi217]

I love how your Editor never misses an opportunity for a gag. Don't ever change, whoever you are.

[@vercingetorige400]

his name is jake!

[@AJax7886]

My only regret is that since I mostly only listen, I usually miss the gags.

[@vercingetorige400]

@@AJax7886 oh so many gags could go unnoticed, it's a pity

[@dBsdecibels]

I have a small list: - People who don't secure loads safely to a vehicle, - people who don't remove the snow on the hood of the car so it can fly off and obscure vision or break windows - people who drive unsafe beaters that fall apart in the middle of driving - people who cross the mustard (double yellow) even if you "can see through the turn" - people who zip down the right turn lane in order to swerve back onto the road at a red light in order to get ahead of red light traffic - people who go flying down the shoulder during a traffic jam (exception for emergency situations) - people who wait to get into the off ramp at the very last second despite the line of cars patiently waiting their turn to exit - people who fly down highways swerving wildly in the gaps between cars (cutting?) - people who refuse to use tire chains when they need to - bald tires - people who tailgate even if there's a line of cars ahead of you and in every other lane I'll think of a few more...

[@2AMinLosAngeles]

I'll be the first to admit that when driving to work, I use the right turn lane and subsequent right lane that merges back into a 2 lane road to pass traffic that's going slow/under the limit. Almost the entire section of road I drive to work on is double yellow and the right turn lane and merge lane is often the only/safest opportunity to pass semi trucks/farm equipment that I often get stuck behind.

[@HandsomeAlex25]

I occasionally have people give me the finger, but I know exactly why. Therefore not a bad driver!

[@thetumanshow]

The Siri audible insert of “take a shower” was a masterclass work by Jake

[@PigglyWigglyDeluxe]

TURN SIGNALS. USE YOUR DAMN TURN SIGNALS.

[@SledgeOfHouseHammer]

All BMW drivers: "You can't tell me what to do. You're not my supervisor!"

[@tonyclewes8]

BMW drivers exempted in the UK for some reason

[@ssssaintmarcus]

I have the new 24 M3P…multiple times I have tried to signal properly only to complete the lane shift and realize after the fact I had the wrong direction selected. 😢

[@kenchen704]

@@ssssaintmarcuscongrats on being a certified BMW driver

[@BEGGARWOOD1]

Listening to these two complain and then talk about how they speed, jump across junctions and drive aggressively! 😂

[@valip3270]

I hate people who think it's not a big deal to not pay attention while driving. Great show, by the way!

[@JasonCammisa]

Thanks!

[@stevemartegani]

Hate to break it to you Jason, but if you are doing 70 in a 55, brake checking people and need a Radar Detector to drive and not get tickets... YOU are the bad driver :P

[@Cal94]

pretty sure the man said 70km/h in a 55... that's like 40mph. well under 55.

[@urgetodrive]

Bad: entering an intersection when you don’t have enough room to exit by the time the light turns red (and then subsequently blocking traffic).

[@michaelgregory903]

I call them YIELDIOTS. Most if not all state laws say you must complete the turn once you are in the intersection.

[@bowtiebonanza]

I think not having mechanical sympathy for your vehicle does not necessarily make you a bad driver - just a bad car owner.

[@joelzylstra2971]

My thoughts exactly. Being a bad driver and a bad car owner are not necessarily the same. Only omission I would make are for those whose cars are very clearly in a poor state of repair, brake pads gone, wires poking out of the cheapest tires on the market etc…

[@christopherjohnston6343]

The two are often linked though. You're more likely to engage in rough driving if you don't have menachamical sympathy

[@TwilightsChapter13]

Jason, you don't even understand what bad drivers are. I'm Taiwanese and I've lived in the US in three different states over 10 years and have done LA to Miami to New York then back to LA. I roadtrip for fun and I've been through more than half of US states, and in over 80,000 miles of driving I have built up less rage than my four years driving in Taiwan. Might I remind you that Taiwan is less than 250 mi long and less than 100 mi at its widest point. It is a tiny little island where you could drive down to the south end, have lunch by the beach and then be home by dinner, or you could, if there wasn't 10 million Toyota Corolla Altises in the way. For your reference, a Corolla Altis is basically last generation's Toyota Corolla made in Taiwan. Once the Corolla has outlived its dull lifespan in civilized nations, the amortized tooling gets shipped to Taiwan for Taiwanese domestic sales (due to our ridiculous tax structure), as well as sales to South East Asia. They are distillations of the quiet desperation of a failed adult life, where every ounce of motivation, drive, and ambition has been sapped away by mediocrity. If you were even vaguely competent you would pay the 80% premium on imported cars and get you something that doesn't reek of decades lost. Anyways, despite the country's dismal, heart-slowing, unconscionable speed limit of 110 kph on a toll freeway (it's slower everywhere else), these medically unconscious beings still manage to hold up the rotation of the earth and the tidal force of the moon. It's like they plan their trips to coincide with each other so there's always two of these motorized scrap heaps in the left and right lane, flanking a blue kei truck at the perfectly synchronized speed of 3. It doesn't matter what units they are because nobody that drives either vehicle can read, and anyone with any semblance of literacy loses their ability the articulate it once they've had their mind numbed by the sheer tedium of an Altis. The blue kei truck is yet another plague that has infected the nation. I would call them rolling coffins except coffins are supposed to hold the corpse inside when these visible distinctive signs of class separation just tend to throw them into the scenery. These work trucks are designed to be city runabouts for worksmen and logistics people, whose lot in life is to serve the city elite who can afford real cars, and are given tools with very little concern for their occupants' safety. They are designed to be driven at no more than 35 mph but every single one of them is on the freeway, and about 100,000 miles behind on maintenance, screeching like the tortured souls from the bowels of hell who have formerly perished in the twisted steel cage of a blue kei truck on fire, because apparently nobody on this island can tell you what a wheel bearing is; I'm not sure the word translates in Chinese. The crumple zone on these cars are the occupants' legs, while their butts are warmed by the engine below the seats. So when the truck inevitable ends up on top of bollard and self-immolates, its victims have been ampulated below the knees by the crash, and they cannot escape while the engine flamebroils the rest of them alive. In such a meritocratic society as Taiwan's, it is the great revenge of the working class and the failed office worker who were left behind by our robust yet demanding education system to destroy the country one mile at the time in their concerted waltz of motorized impedence. Not only are they oblivious to honks, headlight flashes, brake checks or bumper riding because all higher functions of the brain had ceased several miles ago, they seem to have the uncanny instinct to block your path in the most inconvenient way possible. If you move one lane right to try to overtake them, they will automatically speed up for several hundred yards before the coma takes over once more and they fall back to tectonic speeds. If you try to honk at them they will go slower. In their spare time they will call in to radio stations to complain about those damn younglings and their blistering, neckbreaking speed of 5 (again, units escape them because units move faster than these vaguely humanoid snails). And if, by cunning and skill you managed to sneak pass their perfectly rehearsed formation of retardation, they will telepathically communicate with each other to the other four thousand Altisites and Blue Keiadons in front of you to crush your journey plans with perfect sluggishness. On days when they really want to rain hell upon the waking world, they will sacrifice one of their numbers by somehow crashing into the bollards on the side despite it being on a perfectly straight highway with healthily wide run off lanes. While the death of one of their number (survival is impossible because anyone stuck in an Altis or a blue truck lacks basic survival instincts to buy something that isn't a tin foil box waiting to be crumpled into a ball) brings sorrow upon the collective consciousness of the blob, they know it summons reinforcements from the government who will close off the gaps in their ranks for hours on end to scrape what passes for their brain matter off the asphalt. Taiwan's highway is my hell, my tasks of Hercules, my liver-eating eagle, my sisyphean stone, my trenches of Yrpes, my artillery barrage of Verdun, my winter chill in Bastogne, my horse meat Christmas in Stalingrad, my Vietnam. Except I've heard Vietnam's traffic is worse.

[@rmkep]

" their perfectly rehearsed formation of retardation" 🤣

[@jakeflicks]

I hope Jason reads this 😂

[@joelzylstra2971]

This is the longest comment I’ve ever read the entirety of. A captivating story and now I never want to drive in Taiwan. 😂

[@kraftdurchfreudewagen]

In Hong Kong the equivalent is the fucking Toyota Alphards and Vellfires. They're always driven by single child families who for whatever reason need a massive stinking breadvan in a city which makes Taiwan look like motherfucking Texas. They're always too slow, indecisive, often don't indicate, and they make the already-desert levels of dehydrated constipation that is Hong Kong traffic so much goddamn worse than it should be.

[@rizakatsudon]

I hope Jason, Derek, or some off-screen voice reads all of this on a future Carmudgeon episode

[@AdviceFromYourDad]

@15:30. Jason: Mirror, signal, blindspot. Or, mirror, blindspot, signal. Either way, do that, *then* initiate lane change.

[@Loothansa]

Ever so often I feel like a bit of an asshole after my drive home after having bullied someone out of the left lane or honked at someone for a couple seconds straight for not using their indicators or overtaken on the right (allegedly). Then I listen to one of Jasons stories and immediately feel a lot better about myself haha.

[@christopherjohnston6343]

Wait did you just say you got overtaken on the right lol?

[@Loothansa]

@@christopherjohnston6343 I meant having overtaken someone on the right. That sentence might not work in English my bad haha second language.

[@chainringcalf]

I don't love the rule of leaving your signal on until you're fully in the new lane. It looks too much too late like you're going to make multiple lane changes. I prefer to turn it off when more than halfway in the new lane. You're already enough in the new lane that everyone knows what you're doing, it doesn't look like you're going to continue into the next lane, and the triple flash is sufficient.

[@joelzylstra2971]

100%!

[@hduncan2587]

Lane changes are supposed to be in steps anyway. Change lane, signal off, pause, signal, change lane, pause, etc. Not fly over three lanes at once at .7g (Scat Pack bois).

[@Official_MikeyT]

"When you drive, you have to drive every car on the road, not just yours." - My Grandfather, a professional driver for most of his adult life.

[@Vattiis_Happonnen]

That's an interesting way to put it. I feel like I partially understand - but did he ever elaborate?

[@amkobih4479]

I'm gonna guess he was talking about predicting what the other drivers might ( or might not) do, that's the one thing my father tried to teach me before I got my licence

[@touringmagazine5935]

I was taught something similar: view every car as a potential threat, imagine every car is purposely trying to hit you. It makes you very aware of every car’s position/distance and makes you ready to evade any bad/dangerous drivers.

[@justinschultz4325]

Making mistakes while driving happens to everyone. Mistakes should be the exception, rather than the rule. Bad drivers routinely make driving mistakes, but they are usually not aware of them.

[@JohnLewis-qg8rz]

Keeping the proper pressure on the throttle to maintain speed. Don’t treat the throttle like a switch

[@brianpederson7315]

Show me a zipper where one side feeds in 6 teeth for every one in the other side!

[@drewwrobel564]

The whole study that said zipperng is better only counted the bumper to bumper distance, which is shorter when its divided by 2 lanes. There is no way to make more cars go threw any spot any faster if the amount of lanes is fixed as is the speed of the cars. Zippering actually slows the process down since you have to wait to take turns . . . if every driver was perfect then at best zippering would be equil to single lane, since you can only move x cars threw the space at a time.

[@AJax7886]

The zipper works great in computer simulations where every driver behaves correctly and has actual driving skill. All it takes is one selfish asshole to screw it all up for every other driver on the road for the next hour or more.

[@joelzylstra2971]

My wife thinks at times that I’m a crazy person for being as frustrated with the modern North American driver. She’s too forgiving of other motorists, there’s no excuse for the negligence I see every day.

[@fraserwright9482]

I would add that anger is a killer. It's not your job or role in a public space to manage or police others. Your own arrogance of this means you will drive with a Dash cam because you need to find a fight. Look at driving, like walking. Be nice and everyone will get along. I would also avoid commentating on traffic. These are all things you will learn at road rage counselling.

[@MrM0U53]

47:00 something my mother taught me about this was "don't be nice, be predictable". Follow the rules and if you have the right of way, use it. If you do something unexpected, at best you annoy people and at worst, you kill someone.

[@tonyflorio3269]

My pet peeve are people who pace you on a multilane highway. I'm pretty certain it's unconscious. The scenario: you are passing or being passed, and the other car just locks in at your quarter panel (blind spot!) and stays there. If you gently change speed they just mirror it. The only way to get rid of them is to accelerate hard. I'm pretty sure they are just zoned out and using your car as a bit of a guide. But weird as heck, especially as it seems to happen when in low traffic situations!

[@RobTeeJr]

One of my biggest pet peeves is when drivers enter the freeway at speeds well below the posted speed limit. Just today I was behind a driver who entered the highway at about 55. The speed limit is 70 and most drivers are going in the upper 70's. So as to avoid being rear ended I will accelerate quickly and move around those drivers as soon as its safe to do. This driver was on his cell phone. To top it off a mile and a half down the road this same driver passes me while I'm going about 76-78Mph.

[@hduncan2587]

I'll add "gangsta lean" seating, which usually goes with the fist at 12 o'clock. If your seatback is somewhere around 45 degrees, that's a surefire sign you're probably not ready for accident avoidance maneuvers. Sure, I sit kinda upright is everything I'm piloting, but watch the pros... there's a reason for those hands and seats being positioned like that. Also the death grip on the steering wheel, thumbs wrapped around for dear life... yes, have contact, but there's a limit. Part of dteering feedback is in having some delicacy, feeling it through the fingertips... much like delicate shifts (which I've worked on since a previous episode).

[@darindelegal1102]

Speaking about the 10-15 over... Here in Florida, I've had cop friends say "nine, you're fine, ten, you're mine" and that seems to pretty much hold true here.

[@billhohulin9133]

People who hit their brakes for absolutely no reason at all. Driving to and from work I am driving behind people nearly everyday who will light up their brake lights for no reason at all. Normally there is little to no change in their speed, they simply just tapped their brakes enough to trigger the lights. This leads to a chain reaction of brake lights and a general slow down of traffic.

[@nfo1776]

As a driver of a G1 Insight, I apologize for my car being slow. I have a sticker that says "just pass me, flooring it," which I hope assuages some anger.

[@neong]

My dishwasher is unlikely to put anyone's life at risk. People who can barely keep a car on the road in the best conditions are endangering other people lives.

[@polaris6933]

Here's another one: tailgating someone who obviously can't go faster right now. I was recently in such a situation. Driving in the left lane on a 2-lane highway, a truck decided to overtake another truck. I slow down to keep some distance while waiting for him to complete the takeover and I can go past. Then some asshole appears, stays within inches of my rear bumper and does not back off.

[@khawajadotd]

"always remember to serif" is the kind of advice I clicked into this episode for lol

[@0katmandude0]

Good driver: ass, eyes, ears! focus on what the car tells you through sound, vibrations, smell and the temp of your water😂

[@alexbliss5927]

There is no more Carmudgeoney topic than this one, thanks lads

[@tally5k339]

The smooth shifting was a good thing to mention. There's no need to bang every gearshift like you're in a drag race, but a lot of people seem to do it. Personally I find satisfaction in driving my GTI hard, but still nailing the shifts so the clutch or synchromesh doesn't have to take up my slack as a driver. It's a great feeling to seamlessly get back into it after the upshift. Could I shift faster? Yes, but at the cost of smoothness, and I'd be the one having to pay for the results of mistreating it, so no thanks

[@thetruepennyshow7031]

I am a guitar teacher and drive from school to school in the UK. And all of these things are correct. I have one more much is British/European thing, but everyone should know how to use a Roundabout. There are two types. Regular and Mini, on a Mini Roundabout you ARE NOT allowed to use it for a U turn, and I regularly pull into the path of people who have signalled to turn right and then suddenly find me in their path because I have set off and I waited them to block the traffic from the left. They are all over 55 years old. Also do NOT let people in on a Roundabout. This has now happened to me twice and I nearly rear ended two people, I was increidbly wary of them because they were clearly terrible drivers so I didn't hit them. However they stopped because the traffic coming in from the right was still moving so they let them through. Which is insane. I have thankfully moved districts and now only drive 200 miles a month instead of 300 a week, so my stress levels and life expectancy has improved greatly.

[@aleppo1]

17:30 This dumbass edit got me 😂😂😂😂

[@joelzylstra2971]

When the Apple Watch told Jason to take a shower! 😂

[@darkwake3k]

Jason, you should get an old school clapperboard for Derek so its awkward and difficult for him all over again.

[@bananadane]

Oh my God the thing where people speed up once you get to two lanes or a straight away where you can finally pass them. That one kills me and it happens All. The. Time. I always thought it was because people just only know how to drive in straight lines so they speed up when they get to a straight line because that's where they can drive?

[@shidous]

Having the windshield wipers on when it is sunny is a surefire way to know that someone is a horrific driver😂

[@DC5Brandon]

Another funny pet peeve...I commute in an area with lots of elevation changes. To maintain a predictable constant speed, I'll set my cruise, so my car maintains 75 MPH up or down hill. Some drivers will pass me going 85 MPH before the hill, then slow to 70 MPH up the hill, which I will pass while maintaining my 75 MPH speed, then be passed by the same car going 90 MPH down hill. Super annoying.

[@david.mcmahan]

That's my pet peeve also. I grew up in the Blue Ridge Mountains, and now live in an area with rolling hills. Forget that people are oblivious to the heavy death machines they are driving...they don't even seem aware of gravity and momentum.

[@onone4199]

Jason - you gotta signal intention....

[@TML34]

Unless you’ve been signalling your intention for eternity. Then I’ll assume you’re going around the world to the right (or left).

[@onone4199]

@@TML34 cosmic

[@TheDamnGarage]

The Tail of the Dragon, in Tennessee, has many many many turnouts on it and for whatever reason it is without fail always the shittiest shitboxes that done use them. Example? I was stuck behind a first generation Ranger with a ladder and a lawnmower in the bed and it would not use the turnout. It’s especially frustrating on a bike with an open face helmet. On the flip side, I was on a trip to ride the hills of TN, NC and GA during the King’s Rally and was happy to pull over and gawk at the supercars that were passing me.

[@aprtur]

I've had old dudes on baggers go 10 under the speed limit and not use the turnouts on the Dragon also...it's definitely a mix of people doing stupid stuff there.

[@TheDamnGarage]

@@aprtur I’m an old dude with a bagger. And I was scraping my pipes and boards. I cannot disclose my speed but it definitely wasn’t 10 under.

[@aprtur]

@@TheDamnGarage yeah, plenty of people getting on it there, but my point was the ones that cruise too slow and let traffic pile up, not using the turnouts. It's not just cars.

[@TheDamnGarage]

@@aprtur it is annoying, for sure.

[@deanlagalle8694]

In Australia, those who are turning left but pull out to the right, often into the right lane, to turn left are just plain dangerous. Or not moving over to turn left if there is space so everyone has to slow down. For the USA, just reverse it.

[@DustinDriver]

These are the main reasons I want more public transportation.

[@TheBaldMiddleAgedMetalHead]

My pet hate is the 40mph single speed idiots who drive 40 in a 30, 40 in a 50 and 40 in a 70.. they're simply unable to adjust their speed and they simply just feel safe at this speed. Whilst seriously endangering themselves and others.

[@donschiffer7400]

In NY I failed my drivers test (eons ago) for not waiting in the intersection for traffic to clear to turn left. In TN they sit at the white line and wait for the green arrow. They also have zero clue how to cope with the dreaded 4 way stop. Then I helped my kid get his license in TN. He took a ten question quiz (almost exclusively questions about drunk driving), then drove around the block and they gave him his license. He was mad that I wasted so much time, you know, teaching him how to drive.

[@nirfz]

13:50 Fun fact, i have felt pretty embarassed because i am so used to use turn signals, that even when i was driving on the non public road network of a local airport, i used the turn signal. (inside the security fence but on the other side of the runway, where there's technical infrastructure, but almost no chance of meeting any other vehicle. No road rules there, just the rules of the airport and actually air traffic control. So no blinker needed there, and yet from time to time, when i am a little mentally distracted, i will use the turn signal there.) 19:00 steering input: i see that as a goal every time i drive. But we had a vehicle at work where this was impossible. It was a VW T5 Van with epas and on the same route i have used all other company cars we had, this to this day was the only one where that didn't work. In so many corners i had to readjust mid corner. Started to doubt myself until i thought more about it: it was only in that one. We also had a T4 beforehand, Golfs 5 and 6, last gen Touareg, 90's Mitsubishi Pajero at work i did the same route and also with my own two current cars as well as my previous car, and with all of them it worked/works with one fluid motion. So sometimes it can be because of the car. (i mean sure it can still be me, but i doubt that i would only unlearn how to steer in that one vehicle.) -owners manual: my first car didn't have one. (one of the previous owners lost it) and so it took years for us to figure out that the driver seat was height adjustable... But in any car since, where i had a drivers manual, i looked things up. And sometimes it's a real revelation. For example i thought my bootlid lock was broken once. But it was just that a girl that wasn't familiar with center locking who had put her backpack in my boot by herself (i gave her the key) had locked it by hand. Which in that case meant the bootlock did not bother to open with center locking, but stayed locked. Owners manual told me that that was a feature, and how to get it open again. In another case my owners manual did not cover how to change the lightbulb. (and it wasn't obvious how to get the cover open. But by that time, Mercedes had "online owners manuals" on the internet, and i looked it up there. Then complained with an email, and they asked me for my post adress. Got a new owners manual with that covered. (the newer revision had that covered.) did not cost anything. 50:00 Amen. Had that happen occasionally when i drive my E63 and overtake someone. Someone driving slow, i find a nice spot with enough space and view ahead to safely overtake, and choose my accelleration according to their driving. (i don't need to pass everyone at 7k rpm in lightning speed when they are going slow) And then when they see me indicating and moving out, they floor it. And so i often have to give it more beans than i intended to. And i hate it. It's ilegal here, and people here have to get through euqally as much training and exams as the germans. But it's driving school and tests, it does not filter out a$$holes. -> They still are what they are. edit: 1:02 In my country there was a road that had a speedlimit of 70 kph but only for motorcycles, cars legally would have been able to go faster. Never understood it until i drove on that road: it was so steep uphill, that a 136hp W202 mercedes could not go faster than 45kph on full throttle. And suddenly it made sense: most cars at that time in our country were at 80-120hp and so they would not go faster than i could. But most motorcycles were able to go faster, and to prevent hem hitting "standing obstacles" while going fast, they implemented the 70 for bikes. ( that road does not exist anymore sadly) Edit2: what you missed: "you are a bad driver, if you curse at the people making you aware of your mistakeinstead of apologizing"

[@michaeledwardlenzi]

Your last point reminds me of the Superchunk song Precision Auto: "Do not pass me just to slow down I have precision auto." Hahaha.

[@ateamfan42]

@24:00. My state has a "hands free electronic devices" law. Now instead of holding the phone up in their field of view while sending texts (bad), people hide the phone in their laps, so they are driving while staring at the floor (really bad).

[@imallfordabulls]

“Breaking the law for the convenience of others” holy crap it drives me crazy

[@11steezy]

I might be guilty about the “let them go around me, I’m at least at speed limit” when the right lane is so messed up with crazy potholes that I’d rather let the sea of SUV’s and pickups pass me on the right and take the potholes

[@11steezy]

I’ve had wheels be bent from this on a typically very streetable shock/coilover. My way of protesting the shitty roads

[@Frostfly]

I am rarely frustrated with traffic. i drive a cargo van and usually sit in the slow lane right around the speed limit. Staying aware of traffic so that I'm not being a road block. I have no worries about being the slowest car around. I got a lot less angry when i stopped trying to go fast. unless your trip is measured in hours. the time difference between 65 and 70 is in seconds.

[@cayman9873]

If you never turn your head or use mirrors If you cant park inside the lines You dont clear snow from you windows Look in your car, if you have food wrappers and condiments and tons of soda and coffee cups you are awful.

[@AlainSTO]

More annoying but probably still a sign of a bad driver. When I have cruise control on and I'm about to crawl past a car and then they decide they don't want anyone to go faster than them. So they speed up. Then after a while, I catch up to them again (without my speedometer ever changing) and then they speed up again as I'm almost next to them.

[@Duuhvis]

I love when a driver refuses to let you get in front of them when you have clearly signaled and projected your intent to merge.

[@akun24]

I signal well in advance, but I also drive an 8500lb dually and 300 pounds of that is the front bumper. Either I’m merging or we’re merging.

[@vadimgoryunov]

It really depends on speed. If you force the other driver to slow down because of your move, you failed to give a way. And you must give a way when you change a lane or merge.

[@DaneRThomas]

Derek's observation about not wanting to upset the balance of a vehicle operating near the limit of adhesion becomes very important when driving on any traction-limited surface (dirt, gravel, snow, or ice.) Jason has referenced that previously when talking about the challenge and rewards of driving a vintage Porsche on snow tires in low-traction conditions. Those who have done enough of that kind of thing to have built up the necessary muscle memory to do it instinctively know how to do it without being required to think about why they are doing it. The previous comment on driving in Taiwan reminded me of my first experience driving a right-hand drive car. Returning to Bangalore, India on a Sunday night. In the rain. After having hit a cow that was wandering in the middle lane of a six-lane, divided highway.

[@lavonwatson8814]

Without revealing too much I have driven professionally in one form or another for most of my life. As a result of all that time on asphalt I have established a psychological profile for most drivers based on their cars. Subaru drivers, with the exception of WRX pilots, seem to be amazed that there are lines everywhere to deal with. They live in a world where they think they're in the mountains somewhere, without restriction of any kind. If you look at the statistics you will find that Subarus take up the largest percentage of vehicles by make responsible for traffic accidents in the US. Drive into vicinity of a Subaru at your own peril.

[@jimiverson3085]

Jackie Stewart always has said that smooth is fast. I think Sir Jackie would know his stuff on that topic.

[@KevinGre]

The rule on the racetrack is to never surprise anyone. Same on the street. Turn signals always, even when "no one is there" as that way you don't surprise the people you didn't see and you develop the habit, so it is always happens.

[@brandonshriver6448]

I may have missed it, but one of my top pet peeves is people who don't accelerate in on-ramps. You should be going at least the prevailing speed of traffic by the time you need to merge. I often get stuck behind people trying to merge onto a 70mph interstate at 40... and have even had people STOP at the merge point. If you have a fully loaded truck, trailer, etc then OK, just do the best you can, but at least try.

[@henryford6514]

in NYC if you see an entry level luxury car with both "student driver be patient" and "baby in car" on the tailgate you've just spotted some of the worst drivers in the 5 boroughs. THE BABY IN THE BACK SEAT IS NOT GOING TO THROW OFF THE WEIGHT AND BALANCE OF YOUR LEXUS NX300 OR BMW X1 SO STEP ON IT.

[@Kalepsis]

I became a master of the perfect heel-toe downshift into first gear with my e39 M5. That car's clutch lasted me almost 80k miles.

[@berkelyiott]

You’re a bad driver if you tailgate people doing the speed limit or more on a 2 lane road

[@danlaska1661]

People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. DTS - Lane splitting JC - "70 kph" I believe you both own a detector too

[@kenchen704]

Derek is right, you should signal before you start to move over. Someone else could literally pull up next to you and if they are a little bit more towards your side and you did that, you might lose your mirror

[@mheinrichs]

Your a bed driver if you can't maintain a constant speed on I5 north of Sacramento. I.e., my cruise is set at 78 mph. Another vehicle is at 76. I move to the left lane to pass said vehicle. Then that vehicle slowly matches my speed then increases their speed to approximately 82 mph. So I return to the right lane expecting that vehicle to pull away. But if course they slow back down to 75 mph and now I am catching them and pull to left lane to attempt pass them, again. And this goes on for miles! The entire time my cruise is set at 78. 2. Subaru/Toyota/ rich Toyota (Lexus) drivers in the car pool lane going 10 or more mph slower than the flow of traffic.

[@alexbernier6154]

Yes, yes, yes. Everything about this podcast is absolutely spot on. I spend way too much time arguing all of these points to every bad driver i come across. Everything mentioned here is so important and yet the overwhelming majority of drivers are guilty of so many of the offences listed here. I even point these facts out on driving videos on Instagram and I'm regularly accosted by mouth breathing imbeciles who just don't understand. If i ever become a politician (I identify with voluntaryist libertarianism, so i won't) this podcast would be absolutely mandatory to watch every time you apply for or renew a license. I'm Canadian, these problems are universal. Can't express enough how gratifying it was to watch this podcast. Absolutely nailed it

[@egoncalabresi]

In Switzerland you pay the fine from 1 kph over the speed limit, it's 40 chf. On a normal road if you go over 20 kph, you lose your license from 3 months up to a year, on the autostrada/autobahn it's over 40 kph

[@SpartacusSF]

Fun place

[@mikeprice1875]

You guys are spot-on. I live in PA. The left-lane cruisers from NJ that force you to pass on the right, the anti-zipper contingent that cause traffic to back up beyond the warning signs putting lives at risk, the morons that dangerously hold up traffic to let someone turn left in front of them… soooo frustrating and dangerous. Also, quick note that I have my G70 tap-to-pass function set at 5 blinks instead of 3. However, I fully agree with Derek that the indicator comes before or as you start your “body language” move, not after.

[@rickycolon4053]

And the Subaru right there on the thumbnail 🤣🤣🤣

[@6rimR3ap3r]

Things I observe on my workday Autobahn commutes and the small portions in the cities: -blocking the middle lane for absolutely no reason (overtaking on the right is prohibited) -blocking the left lane for no reason -braking right in front of a radar control even though they weren't speeding at all -passing by a traffic jam on the exit to merge just at the last possible moment, resulting in near-collisions -never using turn signals -using a roundabout totally wrong (turn signals...) -using two parking spots, be it roadside or parking lot -driving with your blinding rear fog light on

[@juliansale9731]

Hey guys, your podcast is awesome. Your content is always unique and special and you guys will say things that nobody else will. Excellent stuff. You were talking about the three blink turn signal cancellation sometimes not being quite long enough. I agree. Tesla used to use a three blink system, but now they’ve switched over to a camera based system, so the car terminates the flash when it sees the vehicle has completely landed in the new lane. This is crazy helpful.

[@joh99033]

This was a fantastic show!! I paused it and couldn't help but write out my own list of driver attributes that I think make a bad driver. @jason many of mine overlapped with your List so forgive me for restating anything you and Derek so eloquently articulated. Without further, here is my list: --You ride the brakes with sustained pedal pressure when descending down long steep hills (e.g. Dravus in Seattle, Filbert Street in SF). This can quickly cause brakes to overheat, can lead to brake fade or even worse failure. --You white knuckle the steering wheel, or over grip everything for that matter. Fingertips should be used to feel the car's attitude, if you grip to tightly you can't feel. --Not looking as far down the road as far as you can (12 seconds is a good rule of thumb). So many bad driving incidents happen as a result of this. -An example of this was a bus driver I had that clearly wasn't looking down the road. Had he been looking he would have realized that he should have changed into the center lane to avoid a backup in the right lane. The result was that we ended up getting stuck behind traffic for a good 3 or 4 minutes. It would have been completely avoidable had he been paying attention and changed lanes but he wasn't looking up and didn't see it in time. Myopic vision habits are the worst! --Routinely killing momentum or kinking drivers behind you over innocuous things in the road (e.g. cyclists, busses, etc). The worst is when that person is driving an EV and they kink you off then squirt away. People who do this should be sentenced to driving a Type II VW bus or a diesel Delica for 6 months as punishment. --On the freeway, not reducing the squeeze. Delaying the restart when traffic starts back up again or slamming on your brakes when traffic slows only increases the length of the slinky behind you. Good drivers will try to absorb the slinky by moving promptly when traffic begins again, and they let off early when traffic ahead is stopped or slowing. --Not accelerating/decelerating in concert with steering inputs unwind/wind the wheel. Drivers that don't understand this are unsafe during limit handling situations. --On the freeway, not zippering when a lane ends. --Drivers that refuse to ever experiment with limit handling even in safe environments. An example of this might be driving around in an empty and large gravel lot or large snowy parking lot. This is a safe environment to learn what limit handling feels like in your vehicle. Does it oversteer/understeer on throttle/under braking, etc. --Drivers that sit in the suicide lane with their wheels cocked out as they wait for an opening. --Drivers that categorically refuse to break a norm or rule under any circumstances, even when the norm may momentarily be unsafe. An example of this is a cycling one. I have a friend that refused to ever ride outside of the bike lane. One day he got doored and was hospitalized with serious injuries as a result. As a cyclist, sometimes it is safer (like when descending hills) to temporarily merge with traffic in the road, rather than contend with pedestrians doing stupid things. There are many examples of how the hard fast rule can at times be more dangerous. Good drivers understand when it's safe to break a rule. --Knowing when to let go of the wheel. This is a difficult one to learn. Sometimes the only way to eliminate a tank slapper is to let go of the wheel or handlebars and let it self correct. Rake in your steering rack enables your wheels to self-center. When you get into a parabolic situation, you may not be able to countersteer fast enough to cancel out the oscillation. Letting go of the wheel at the right moment and allowing the wheel to self-center can sometimes be the only way to prevent a spin. --Those who instinctively merge with their foot on the brake. Merging should be a forward motion. --Left lane parkers, and those who pace the car next to them. --Distracted drivers. --On narrow streets where only one car can go at a time, drivers who take their turn but don't extend a courtesy wave to the driver who gave them their turn. Always give a courtesy wave or at night a quick double headlight blip. Having driven narrow Seattle's roads all my life, I find that many people who come from areas with wider roads get this one wrong all the time. --Continuing on the narrow road theme. Drivers that don't leave space for others to get around them when they are trying to turn left. If you are stopped and trying to make a left turn in a narrow intersection, make sure that you get as far left in your lane as possible (without occluding the oncoming lane), so that drivers behind you can safely pass on your right. --If your wheels are curbed in various places, you are a bad driver. --If you set your handbrake everytime you park regardless of the grade, you are dumb (you may not be a bad driver but you are dumb). --If you can't start on a hill in a manual transmission car without rolling backwards you are a bad driver. On steep hills, learn how to use your handbrake. --If when pulling over to pick up a friend you need to stop and find yourself partially blocking the lane but you don't turn on your emergency flashers, you are a bad driver. To clarify, sometimes on narrow streets you'll have no choice but to block part of a lane, that's ok as long as there is room for cars to pass you, and you indicate by using your emergency flashers. If the lane is too narrow to allow another car to pass, you shouldn't pick up your friend in that spot. Move until you find a space large enough to allow for traffic to pass you safely. --If you measure your driving acumen based on how fast your car is, you might be a bad driver. Furthermore, if you think that absolute performance is more important than driving feel and engagement, you might be a bad driver. Now don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with wanting to drive a faster/more capable car, but if you can't understand how driving a well balanced and engaging car with less power can be a joyous experience, you are missing out. --If you categorically believe that older cars are bad, or are less enjoyable to drive, you may be a bad driver. It is precisely the flaws and idiosyncrasies that older cars have that make them fun and illuminating to drive, and teach you how to drive better. I would argue that learning to hustle any 105/115 series Alfa, vintage BMW, or vintage Porsche around a track would teach you much more about car control than angrily pointing and squirting any modern inert 10 second DTC isolation box around a track. --If you engage the clutch every time you brake, you are a bad driver. --If you are incapable of left foot braking smoothly and controllably, you might be a bad driver. --If you don't understand how to steer with your feet and accelerate with your hands, you don't understand car control, and you're a bad driver. --If you routinely oscillate between applying brakes then the gas while traffic is moving at a steady pace on a motorway, you are a bad driver and should have your license stricken. --If you routinely apply binary forces to your car (steering, brakes, throttle, or any combination), you are probably a lousy driver.

[@YouRedix]

I wholesomely agree with most of these points (some minutia are debatable), but I feel there's 1 thing missing from the list. I characterise many bad drivers by their lack of anticipation ability. Not looking far enough ahead, just staring at the taillights of the car directly in front. I've had several close calls when somebody in front of me slams on their brakes because they only realised at the last second that somebody a couple cars ahead is gradually slowing down for a turn-off (indicators on, even). This inability to see oneself as a part of the larger traffic ecosystem is also how phantom traffic jams get out control. "Performance" driving instructors often say you should look/see as far as the horizon, which might be a little exaggerated but gets the point across.

[@marcwiley]

You forgot about people who block driveways and intersections

[@kingjaf]

To add to the hand placement problem, I'd say poor seat position makes you a bad driver. Sitting so close your elbows can touch the bottom of the steering wheel. Or gansta-lean so far back you have zero peripheral vision due to B-pillar. Or your legs/feet being anywhere but the footwell.

[@nathanchildress5596]

Sure, make lane changes smooth, but if you’re getting in a turn lane, and you pull in slowly like no one’s behind you I hope you spill hot coffee in your lap.

[@Baimobile7]

The only thing i really enjoyed during my ownership of my 2022 Mini Cooper S was the option in the menu to change the turn signal to 5 blinks instead of 3. GAME CHANGER. Never had a moment of being in the correct position for a lane change, and running out of time with the 5 blinks, it was great.

[@narek_kona302]

12 drinks sounds like the person might be dead lol

[@Imprezalove]

Jason saying pretentious people aren’t his jam is 😂 comedy

[@BryceWomeldurf]

I was thinking I'd get called out for something in this video but instead I'm sitting here yelling "YES!!!" over and over again.

[@Riley8425]

My dad drives around without using his turn signals like ever. I told him last time i was in the car with him he should get a BMW, he'd fit right in. He didn't get it.

[@pepikkrul4296]

If you ever feel a need to brake check anyone that's a good sign. But if you proceed to brake check, you're a bad driver

[@cayman9873]

My daughter was a fairly bad driver and new one... At some point I bought her a 3 series so she could learn to adjust her seat and mirrors and hands. At some point I wanted to show her how easily you can shut off an engine or push the clutch or put an auto into neutral. Her driving instructor never bothered

[@sssssneaker]

"It's not that America sucks, but..." 😂😂

[@cparunsankar7363]

We need a podcast on the new bugatti

[@kjyu]

I guess we will get it after Icons episode.

[@JasonCammisa]

We do. I can't wait to see the thing.

[@cparunsankar7363]

@JasonCammisa aaaah he replied Love the shit you do

[@gad3]

It's a Bugati. Its amazing. U can't afford to replace the tyres. 😂 And it is so impractical. Want one ?

[@cparunsankar7363]

@@gad3 yes

[@jonathanbryant2439]

Two you missed: If you turn left-to-right or right-to-left. I.e. turn onto a road into the far lane and effectively change lanes while turning. If you’re driving around with part of your vehicle hanging off and making a loud scraping sound on the road. Mudflap, part of the undercarriage, etc.

[@kenchen704]

This episode is such an entertainment I LOVE THIS