Signs you're dating a "nice guy"

[@beriukay]

Anna really *does* go to therapy for other people. She literally talked to her therapist about a friend in an abusive marriage.

[@crackasscrackle]

For other people indeed!!!! Im benefiting too 😁😁😁😁😁

[@queer_village_witch]

@@crackasscrackle Haha facts💕

[@LerenaHolloway]

Who is her therapist though...I want to work this person! lol

[@ethanpoole3443]

Many of us who are in therapy already also regularly seek out advice to help those we care about, especially those of us who are empaths as people in need of help are drawn to us. It is very hard not to want to help others when we literally feel their emotional pain (as well as the emotions of anyone and everyone we are in proximity to) as if their emotions were our own (which can be very confusing at times when it comes to separating our own feelings from those around us) coupled with our own past experiences of oftentimes extraordinary abuse, neglect, and/or other trauma (which, along with genetics, played an enormous role in the development of that level of empathy because an overdevelopment in empathy literally meant being able to predict our abuser’s moves and motives in advance and thus the opportunity to either moderate that abuse by placating them before they act or to use that skill to help shield other potential victims by moving them out of harms way in advance).

[@peaceloveally]

I like to call this trickle down therapy

[@sakidickerson]

If you are a "nice guy" it's really important you understand the why behind your actions. Usually it's tied to something that happened in your early childhood where you started seeking approval from women in a covert way. Read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" you don't always have to be that way if you don't want to. The goal isn't to be a nice guy, or a Chad or a "bad boy" but to be an actual person who voices their feelings and makes their desires known without resorting to shitty manipulative tactics.

[@user-ov2fc5sd1e]

It always starts from childhood. Everything mentally wrong with a person. Literally.

[@Pssst.ByTheWay]

Becoming a chad felt like the solution for do long. I hate chads😄 Was poison for my soul to thing i had to one

[@Pssst.ByTheWay]

Yes all this! Took 39 years but i finally thing on a path forward. When i was younger i tried but took forcuts. Did understand what was causing these things ate way. I shortcut to solutions. Become chad and mashing up dem guts as often as I could. But the self loathing and the utter desiluzioned destain for women falling for such cheap utter cheap tricks. Bruv im still working stuff out. But im feel im on a good path for the first time ever.

[@cryora]

Making one's desires known isn't always the most tactful thing to do. Better to keep it on the down low and let a limited select few know, and only let them know what they need to know. Because we all know what most people's inner desires are, and they are full of sin. It's why society has controls for them. No need to remind people of it everyday.

[@QuidamByMoonlight]

I don’t know. That book was recommended to me, and I read it. I made some improvements and got better at setting boundaries. I found out that most people will still try to ignore them or find a way around them, and it’s a constant battle to either reinforce them or walk away. I even did a weekend workshop with the author, and I was not impressed. He’s basically aligned with the PUA community now, and seems pretty sleazy to me. He’s on his third marriage, and living in Mexico, and talking about how that one might not work out because his wife gets jealous. I’ve become very wary of these “self-help professionals”.

[@tommygunn6901]

The reason that the "nice guy syndrome" exists is because of scarcity. They grew up thinking they weren't good enough and had to do do do everything with getting love in the end. Yes, I was that guy!

[@skie6282]

Its so fcked up what seemingly small things are carried by people for years and years... like a cause of what you said could be years of bullying in school, cause if so many people for so many years treat you like your not good enough to be nice to, even though you say say f them and go on with your life, your left with years of conditioning that says they NEED to do all these nice things just to get some happiness in return. May or may not be speaking from experience 👀

[@tommygunn6901]

@@skie6282 what helped me was going to therapy to resolve these things and surround myself with people who are more supportive now than ever before

[@gialanamoon5094]

Scarcity is a myth though. It may seem real with abusive parents and/or growing up in a tiny town or going to a tiny school and being in a tiny class or something like that, but there's a a whole wider world out there, in exponential excess. Love will find you, in multiples, in ways you'll least expect. The key is to get to a point in life that you feel like you deserve it when it shows up!

[@tommygunn6901]

@@gialanamoon5094 the mentality is what matters, so I see what you're saying. What I was getting at is the mentality of lacking, if that makes more sense

[@AroundTheBest]

"Nice guy" just means too ugly to date.

[@ivanyaroslavskiy]

"Nice guys" are also about something else. About girls who make boys believe they're interested in them while actually there's no way, so they're creating and maintaining as long as possible an emotional ambiguity to try to get emotional labor (and sometimes free stuff) from a guy. What usually happens then is that the guy understands he's been manipulated and leaves the relationship

[@Dexington429]

Right on time as usual lol. I have finally started to set boundaries with people. It's scary and difficult at times, but sooooo worth it. Thanks again Anna!

[@smartass0124]

So not being a one sided relationship is bad

[@williamfontoura]

@@smartass0124 is that what she means? I really didn't get it

[@GataGuladeGol]

Good for you!!

[@SayaliNikumbh]

How to set boundaries?

[@Dexington429]

@@SayaliNikumbh for me, it started with realizing why I wasn't setting them in the first place. Through therapy, I discovered I have a fear of abandonment that stems from my childhood. After that, I had to convince myself that the ones who truly love me won't leave me for setting these boundaries and putting myself first. I JUST started, but it feels really good to be doing it. One baby step I've taken is to ask for alone time from my partner. Try to find something like that to start with. It will feel scary, but once it's over I'm sure you will feel empowered and relieved like I did. Best of luck on your journey! I'm rooting for you!

[@aas-us4qu]

I was a "nice guy" up until I was 20, and it was due to poor socialization and C-PTSD inflicted by a narcissistic parent. "I do everything you say you want, so why don't you love me the way I want to be loved?" was a recurring theme throughout most of my relationships. Since I've healed, I now realize that most of these "jerks" and "assholes" that the objects of my affection ended up dating were operating on a level that I didn't even know existed at the time.

[@markt2398]

Its also possible that a guy friend develops feelings over time, even if it started out platonic. Its happened to me and I know girls it's happened to as well. If you share your feelings and get rejected, then the one with the feelings might need to back away for awhile. Didn't mean it was all some master plan.

[@VivianValeriena]

True.. regardless, we all should be aware when we start expecting the efforts we put in to be reciprocated

[@dlat1825]

There is no need to worry. The advice given above is nonsense and based on profound cynicism.

[@amiablehacker]

That's not nice guy syndrome. She's talking about people who take the rejection as a personal insult.

[@Alex06CoSonic]

As a guy, I've had both guys and girls develop feelings for me, and I have developed feelings for girls as well (all cases were it started out as platonic). It's never easy but it's part of life, we have to learn to be honest with ourselves and each other and respect our boundaries and each others' boundaries. What's important is to never guilt anyone into feeling bad for feeling or not feeling emotions for you.

[@samonellasgayclone1054]

I agree but you also gotta Accept rejection. It’s not the end of the world, move on and if you guys genuinely get a long keep talking to each other.

[@monmonmonsta]

A very compassionate and realistic reflection on what goes on in these dynamics. Despite the loud minority where we see horrendous behaviour from people with these traits there are a lot of people just trying to figure things out and be more authentic. We all have incredible capacity for growth

[@MrColdNoodles]

So sad how much we all needed this bc of all the not nice guys out there and we don't know what's healthy anymore.

[@mysticstrikeforce5957]

To be fair girls do this to and man complain about the same issues

[@wbrito8617]

In the end, we are victims of media and poor example. We can only keep exploring until what works for BOTH, not just yourself.

[@TheXanthoman]

Some people are just nice , because thats the way they were brought up , it doesnt always mean they have an ulterior motive

[@scottjardine9314]

Exactly!

[@just1nj962]

Yeah but that's not who we're talking about. We're talking about the ones who do have an ulterior motive.

[@kevingarrett948]

They’re not talking about nice guys they’re talking about ”nice" guys.

[@thanhdinh3179]

@@just1nj962 that is what she’s talking about but the fact that she’s not talking about both sides of the “nice guy” personality will make people think that all nice guys have some ulterior motive when most do not and are just genuinely nice people.

[@EdgarHernandez-uu4iw]

@@just1nj962 how do you know which one has a ulterior motive or not? Y’all woman can’t even understand each other

[@halcyon_echo42]

I identify with all except the expectation of sex in return, but usually I haven't said no in the past. Cue the relationship only happening because the woman gives me validation and I situate 90+% of all my actions toward keeping her happy, appreciated, and heard despite lying about my own wants and needs in the relationship. Like how when they call something I love boring or they'd never do that and me avoiding the topic entirely for the rest of the relationship. That leads to a serious amount of resentment, distrust, and poor communication. Maybe it's just mirroring to an incredibly unhealthy extent, but it's definitely coming from a place of not believing I have worth. I'm working hard on that right now and taking care of my body, improving my diet, and cleaning my apartment for my own sake not a guest or date for the first time ever. I'm glad I've begun realizing this before I got into another relationship and had kids I was not prepared for, married or not. Thank you for all the clarity over the years Anna & I hope you're appreciating your worth more everyday too.

[@GataGuladeGol]

That's so good! Keep it up!!

[@Casmira.Draconid]

I definitely see some of these tendencies in the guy I'm dating now. He's had a lot of past relationship trauma. I would really like to help him feel safe to set boundaries and make sure he's taking time and energy for himself. So if you have a little extra brainspace, could I ask you a few questions? Do you think there's anything your partners could have said to you to encourage you to take more time and energy for yourself? What would have made it feel safe to set boundaries? And did you ever find there was a way your value could be acknowledged that felt real and that you didn't resist? I guess, do you think there were any ways a partner could have helped you on this journey and helped you feel restful and secure in the relationship? Thanks in advance if you answer, but also just thank you for this comment. It makes me really happy to see people healing themselves. You're doing an amazing job, and I hope you end up feeling solid and secure in your worthiness. You deserve it.

[@kikitauer]

It just makes me happy to read this. Please keep it up! Even though you have hard time believing it, you ARE lovable and you HAVE worth.

[@MissElisabelle]

The fact that you're so aware of your issues is already a great step! You will do great, I wish you the best, sincerely!

[@LatIenws]

I’ve had my amount of friends that fall into the category of “nice guy” and honestly I’ve always had a soft spot for them. I love the kind treatment. But I am well aware that if you are not careful you could cause harm to both parties. From a girls perspective this is the measurements I’ve taken. (If you don’t plan anything romantic) 1. Don’t have them make any “sacrifices” for you. 2. Return favors in small ways or practical ways 3. Don’t over communicate or communicate every single day. 4. Use bro and friend language. 5. Respect physical boundaries and NO teasing that could be considered flirting. Basically treat them as you would an actual friend. Don’t play with peoples feelings. Edit: the end result is that they lose feelings or get bored and treat you as any other person pretty quickly.

[@marcello7781]

I used to be the kind of guy who expected to "conquer" a girl through mere kind actions or constantly giving nice presents until I realized the importance of communication and the importance of reciprocity. At the same time there were some girls who used to try the same strategies with me but who I kept rejecting because I didn't find them attractive enough, which now makes me think of the female counterpart of the Nice Guy, oftenly kept out of such discussions.

[@danielcook11]

"Nice girls" are rarely talked about just like "toxic femininity"

[@pavithraos6978]

nice guy's female version could be pick me girl. not exactly synonymous but u understand the gist.

[@Vannabee13]

Oh there's definitely a "nice girl" counterpart. I've fallen into it in the past. It doesn't help when you have a constant narrative from guys saying "girls are too picky, they all want chads. I just want a nice decent looking girl who doesn't start drama" and you think "I'm a nice decent looking girl, I don't want Chads, I like nerdy guys who aren't all 6ft tall, and I'm easy going and no drama" and then you get rejected. Just like guys who see women say "where are all the good men?" And don't know why women aren't dating them. Both sides have a bad habit of down playing what their looking for as "I'm not asking for much here" claiming it's the other side who's being overly picky. But true compatibility and attraction is never as simple as someone just "being nice."

[@gusgrimm7533]

Someone plz explain what's happeninghere: @1st: Girls mistake me 4 a 'nice-guy' b/c I'm polite. They quickly realize I've already 'friend-zoned' them b/c I treat them like my big-head niece. Then they're intrigued, but I remain indifferent. 😕

[@leoniep9231]

Good on you for being so self-reflective, and also for realizing the importance of reciprocity, that's so true. It's wonderful when people grow and are even publicly honest about what things they might have partaken in in the past, and are open enough to change their ways... I aspire to be the same. Respect to you!

[@cqtaylor]

I completely agree that "Nice Guys" aren't entitled to sex in exchange for favors and availability. It's wrong. If the "Nice Guy's" intentions are not pure and holy, they should not listen to that one female friend's endless problems over the phone after she has a tough break-up; they shouldn't give that one female friend lifts to the grocery store or hardware store; they shouldn't take care of that one female friend's cat when she's traveling, or help move furniture for her. I'm sure she'll have her female friends to help her with that stuff. Instead, the "Nice Guy" should focus on his needs and healing: work out, find hobbies that he cares about, follow his own interests and passions, travel, meet new people. And definitely Not. Be. "Nice." Instead focus on being sincere, credible, grounded, and at peace. Not all nice guys are predatory; some just want to feel cared for. And it won't ever come from that one "special girl" they admire from a far. It's best to turn away from that. Focus on yourself, and you'll be better for it.

[@smartass0124]

So wanting to treated nice in return is bad

[@cqtaylor]

@@smartass0124 For certain women, they see it that way. So "Nice Guys" should focus on themselves and move on.

[@LunaWitcher]

This feels weirdly specific. Not saying that's bad, just specific lol

[@ThaMobstarr]

@@smartass0124 You should do nice things for others without expecting something in return. Expecting something in return is the definition of being a nice guy. And this does not only relate to women and sex. But also if you think that you doing a nice deed for a friend means that he *has to* help you with something. As a necessary disclaimer, this does not mean that you should let yourself be taken advantage of. Relationships in general should be a two way street. If you notice that you are the only one giving and it is bothering you, you absolutely can review the relationship you have with that person and consider if it is worth keeping.

[@bleepbloop7039]

dude do you know how the disarray it would cause if women lost all their orbiters? all those dudes they thought were their 'friends' suddenly disappearing haha I admit it would be funny as fk though

[@destyniiskywalker]

I think those are two separate definitions of nice guys. In my experience, there was a "nice guy" (my former best friend) who wouldn't take no for an answer of us dating, because he was a "nice guy". My friendship was just a "slap in his face". When I finally caved after a year of pressure, due to my youth and naivety at the time, he was not nice at all, never did anything with me, forgot/flaked on my birthday plans, and wanted to leave the country indefinitely the day after we got together. To him I was just a conquest. Re: "nice guys" who bend over backwards as Anna describe, I've dated those too. He went above and beyond for me in the beginning; he did not pressure me into a relationship, but I found out he expected me to be his mommy/therapist, never expressed his needs, and only treated me passive-aggressively (or throw tantrums) till I figured out what he wanted. I broke up with him quickly; I value communication and respect above all else. Neither guys were "nice", ultimately.

[@clementine5053]

I agree! I think the second shows the real pandemic of men with poor emotional understanding and self worth. Women, although definitely have their timeless struggles, they often have many women around them. Where as men with their toxic masculinity never are supported by their mates and therefore have horrible emotional and relationship understanding

[@Pssst.ByTheWay]

@@clementine5053 look into the manosphere or redpill sections of KZbin. Guys calling for guys to support each other is a common battle cry. And yes they arnt toxic masculinity. But definitely all about masculinity.

[@Pssst.ByTheWay]

Sorry the guys didn’t treat you well. As Anna aluded to, what did you get from these interactions. You said one you caved in to the pressure. ( that’s unfortunately still on us, the choices we make)?

[@DeathnoteBB]

@@theliberation9061 Yeah I think the latter guy was the attacker in that relationship though…

[@Pssst.ByTheWay]

@Emma Jean nice guy vs good man vs gigachad PUA And option 4 mgtow

[@tjs4519]

Anna always giving both sides of the coin.... everyone appreciates that.

[@GOTTACO]

you do the right ("nice") thing not because you get something in return, but because its the right thing to do.

[@Pssst.ByTheWay]

Ideally yes

[@basnaspe4578]

I know your comment is old. But for me it wasn't just that. For me it was having to receive as well as recognize such things first myself. I was also on medical drugs for many years who made me very indifferent so this probably took me way longer than others to make this development.

[@GOTTACO]

@@basnaspe4578 Thats good man. You can be happy from within now.

[@sirebellum0]

Many men are entitled, but what women need to remember is that a person is allowed to be disappointed and/or hurt when someone doesn't reciprocate feelings they have, especially if those feelings were strong. Sadness from rejection is not entitlement, its human emotional response. If your guy BFF admits feelings for you and you reject him, that guy is not automatically an asshole if he then keeps his distance to avoid further emotional trauma instead of just going "OK, great!" and acting like those deeper feelings were never there.

[@wesguyton5270]

It's like how men/women aren't entitled to romantic reciprocation for being "Nice". The same principle stands where men/women aren't entitled to a friendship after rejecting somebody's romantic interest in them.

[@parvathyshaji6297]

I don't think people call people who keep a distance after rejection ' nice guys' , its often when they protest at their companionship not being rewarded with a relationship or something of that sort . And woman do get rejected all the time .

[@BoMwarriorVlog]

Yeah... I've noticed Anna's videos have been getting more extreme since 2020 🤔, being more & more not so universally relatable.

[@VivianValeriena]

Avoiding emotional trauma is already very wrong.. instead of avoiding it, you should heal it.. just like any physical wounds, if you don't heal it, it will get worse overtime.. avoiding the person who reject you to heal yourself is fine, but to avoid emotional trauma? Gonna be worse in the long run.. Don't say I didn't warn you 😊😊

[@bilaljones3635]

I guess the counterpoint to this is two-fold. Firstly, I think taking some time for yourself to heal is one thing but it's a whole other thing to remove yourself from a trusted friendship indefinitely. Think about it from her perspective: she just lost a dear friend (which if you're one of her BFFs means you probably have been friends for a significant amount of time) over something she can't control. So, no one can tell a person the appropriate amount of time that is needed to heal a broken heart, but if your extended hiatus from a friendship ends up losing that friendship in the long run, I can see why the girl in that scenario would be upset. And, if the guy in the scenario is not upset by the loss of a friendship then he should probably question how much of a friend he was to begin with. Secondly, there's a mature and immature way to approach maintaining distance from a girl who rejected you and civility and decorum matters. It's one thing if you're rejected from some girl you met randomly at a party and you don't have to necessarily see her again. Its a whole other thing to be rejected by a girl at your place of work, in your friend/social group, or even at like a common social gathering place (local gym, church, etc.) and be uncomfortably awkward and petty about it. IRL there are just going to be moments where you have to deal with awkward situations that might even be painful and how you react to them affects other people. This is what I've had to learn as a man because I know so many women who have talked to me about dudes they've turned down at their job, in their friend group, in their DnD party, at the gym who ended up making those spaces hell because they couldn't check and manage their feelings when it came to being in community with them. Or they bail from whatever previously established commitment, leaving the girl to pick up the pieces on whatever project they were working on together. Once again, both of these points come down to discretion. There's no clear cut answer but I do think maturity requires nuance in these situations.

[@Jordanthecool7]

I feel like someone that is only nice to receive something from the other person shouldn’t be considered nice in the first place . Really hurts the image of people that are actually kind people , because now the real kind people are also labeled as “ nice guys “ because of what the fake nice people do .

[@PTRMAN]

Nailed it - feeling like you have to earn it by being perfect to someone else.

[@MoFiTheMagnificent]

"Nice guy" is simply a sub problem if a bigger issue (people pleasing)

[@12getsetgo]

Hi Anna. I just wanted to thank you for adding so much value to my life with your content. I have gained a sense of self awareness and have started to work on my issues. So grateful that I found you.

[@sealwhiskers3515]

Good luck! It's a new year :)

[@olanordmann7836]

Why do you think nice guys believe niceness will get them sex, affection and attention? Because that's what society tells us from the age of zero.

[@ChevronTango]

In my view the Nice Guy epidemic, and by extension some of the incel movements, is in large part due to the toxic messaging in movies and TV. So many movies set women as a reward for the male lead saving the day or working hard, almost as a given no matter the genre, which is a bad message for young women, but equally toxic for boys and young men trying to figure out how relationships with women are supposed to work. It's confusing and almost no media teaches them how to handle a rejection in a healthy way, despite this being perfectly normal and not a failure or reflection on them as a person.

[@Neo.Jordon]

It's more the feeling of being lead on and existential dread, not just simple rejection for these men. And it's not just rejection from that one person, it's the lack of love from anywhere. Women are blinded by the fact they can open tinder and get hundreds of matches, while guys get 0. If all your options went away, you're gonna feel differently. You mock lonely depressed people, by calling them 1nc31s too

[@AndromedaChace]

@@Neo.Jordon many people call themselves incels. It isn't mocking to recognize that. And the validation that someone on Tinder wants your attention (usually in a limited, sexual capacity) is not love, community, and barely passes for companionship for most women. This is why we seek emotional intimacy with platonic friendships, because a horny stranger can't possibly meet emotional needs or provide the gaping hole most modern people have as a response to a total lack of community or belonging.

[@Neo.Jordon]

@@AndromedaChace the men on tinder are just people, idk why you view them as only wanting sex...

[@bleepbloop7039]

incel is just another modern buzzword that gets throw around and overused in popular culture nowadays

[@marcello7781]

@@Neo.Jordon I'm pretty sure a woman considered "ugly" gets 0 matches as well. On apps such as Tinder, where looks are most of what matters, both men and women have it much easier as long as they're good looking.

[@georgepalmer5497]

Speaking as a former "nice guy", I think part of their problem is that they are so sincere. That can be off putting. But one time I heard a girl talking about a guy, and she said, "he was interested in me as a person, and I couldn't deal with it. I couldn't have a relationship with him." A lot of women look at relationships that way. ... Some guys get addicted to rejection. I was listening to that creep "Eliot Rogers", He is the one who killed six people because he couldn't get girls. He lamented the facts that he had a BMW and $300 sunglasses, and women still wouldn't have anything to do with him. There were a lot of places where he just needed to pull up to a group of girls and say, "Get in", and he could have gotten laid, as long as he didn't start to rave like a schizophrenic. He was addicted to rejection.

[@donnyyasu2764]

As a former 'nice guy' you hit the nail on the head. Especially the whole parents and boundary aspect. I got myself into one of those controlling marriages and got out once I had enough. Did a lot of growing up since then. Side note: I know it's basically a meme that Disney has given girls unrealistic ideas of how love works and such, but it does for us guys too. Same with old fables, movies, games etc. We get this notion that if we save the girl, do the right things, make grand gestures, then we will be rewarded with love, affection, and access to a relationship. I called it the damzel in distress syndrome lol.When I think of where my nice guy days come from, that was definitely part of it as an impressionable youth.

[@kraziiXIII]

The term I think you are looking for is White Knighting when it comes to the behavior you said you exhibited in the past. But I could be wrong and misinterpreted what you said.

[@donnyyasu2764]

@@kraziiXIII They go hand in hand, I know I used to do a bit of that.

[@thenadie8]

Thanks for sharing your perspective... I feel compassion, and it feels good

[@felipelima8261]

Exatamente no ponto

[@leoniep9231]

Great perspective, thank you! It's so interesting to realize how much and in what ways society and our upbringing influence who we are and why we act in certain ways, I love to learn about that. And also respect to you for doing so much internal work and self-reflection.

[@adamjutras7024]

Every interaction is transactional/full of expectations. When you simply speak to someone it's with the expectation that you'll get a reply of some sort. You just have to keep the expectations grounded in reality.

[@vandit6354]

Thanks Anna, expected to be portrayed in a bad light but much appreciated your explanation. Its what happened to me, growing up and made to feel like I'm never good enough and was completely starved of any positive attention and affection. This caused me to seek affection in other ways, usually to my detriment. I now choose to focus on myself and no longer people please like I used to. Still a long road to go...

[@aaendi6661]

She's really close. She still buys into the strawman that Nice Guys feels entitled to sex.

[@kanalisationerstellen]

@@aaendi6661 yeah mostly, still does better than 95% of the girls out there? Instant hating such people?

[@donpoulsen]

I've been a nice guy all my life, but that was just my nature. It is the way to be a decent human being. But I never expected anything in return for being nice and still don't. So please don't disparage all nice guys as being manipulative.

[@thenopedetective]

There's a huge difference between a "nice guy" and a typical nice guy. There's no worry of people getting you confused if you're just a baseline good person.

[@teranokitty]

You're a Nice Person. The topic here is more like in air-quotes, "Nice Guy".

[@newguy6935]

Totally agree.

[@InTheNameOfLife1]

You’re describing just simple kindness. “Nice guy” is a very specific kind of person that is pretty easy to see through. If you’re just genuinely a nice friend you won’t be seen in this way. If you don’t view your friendships as transactional, you’re set 👍

[@daidaitastic]

Yeah, I think a better term is called for. One that foregrounds transactionality. Because really that's the issue. Transactionality comes in all forms and is understandably problematic if it's couched in niceness.

[@godbearxd]

I'm both shy and awkward as hell to this day but still I had enough courage to directly ask most people out when I liked them. Now it rarely worked but still I was direct about my intentions. What surprised me the most is when some of the girls/women I asked out offered friendship in return and I rejected that they got mad. I had to explain on multiple occasions just like you can reject a relationship I can reject a friendship but they just didn't see it that way for some reason. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@analazovic441]

of course you can reject a friendship. but, why wouldn't you want to be friends with someone you initially liked (assuming that the desire to be in a relationship with someone comes from valuing them as a person) ?

[@angelinaz7292]

yeah, I agree, you can reject friendships just as you can reject relationships. I think that maybe those women felt mad because they thought you only wanted sex/a romantic relationship from them and didn't value them as people that you could build a real friendship with. But of course, it's understandable to reject a friendship with someone who rejected you romantically, and that decision is valid for its own reasons too. But I do know many women who were hurt, because men they thought they were friends with had ulterior motives for sex - perhaps the women you were talking about assumed you were the same. But also, it's great that you found the courage to be direct and ask them out! :D

[@godbearxd]

@@analazovic441 Me personally I can't be friends with somebody that I'm attracted to unless they're not attracted to men. Those romantic/sexual feelings don't just go away because we're friends now so I wouldn't be able to be a good friend to them. It's better for everyone involved to not even bother.

[@godbearxd]

@@angelinaz7292 No it's not like we were friends before or anything. Even at my most awkward it wouldn't take me more than a week upon a meeting someone to get the courage to ask them out so it's not like this was a long-standing friendship that's now over. That's why I was confused when they got mad. You've known me less than a week so it can't hurt that bad that I won't be around anymore.

[@skie6282]

@@godbearxd well ita good you know yourself!

[@Tubeytime]

Every relationship *IS* transactional though, the only thing that changes is the currency you pay with.

[@Calembunial]

For the vast majority of guys, if they "don't do enough", or "show up in these very specific ways", then it's very hard to form relationships with women. Men don't get the privilege of just doing their own thing and waiting for women to approach. We have to be proactive, and we have to go about it in a very specific way. And this way varies depending on the woman we're trying to get. It's literally something we have to "figure out" on the fly with every women we decide to pursue. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but for the vast majority of guys, it's simply not an option to believe that "you are enough", and hope women will see that. More often than not, we have to go WAY out of our way to SHOW women that we're worth it.

[@skie6282]

This is what im struggling with now, im not even on social media anymore and im comparing myself to other guys thinking i have to do something more to be noticed. Which obviously none of that is ok

[@konami1979]

Pretty much - the claim that women will flock to you if you simply have a winning personality just doesn't cut it. You have to be serious about pursuing a relationship with a woman and you got to prove to her that you can be a great partner.

[@oncefighting]

Its kinda funny since I kinda did annoy the guy I like into liking me, that sht worked for me (i acknowledge if it was the other way around it’d be labeled as creepy). But seeing the other side of the coin gives me a new perspective on how much guys do suffer. I hope y’all get the love you deserve, please be gentle with yourselves.

[@BoMwarriorVlog]

These type of comments are like what I saw a ton of in the comment sections of KZbinr "Roma Army". 🤔 She doesn't have the best videos, but the camaraderie & discussions in the comments help me know I'm not alone... Like you guys help in this thread. 😊

[@andrealewis2501]

@@theliberation9061 Wow I have been struggling with loneliness lately and I was thinking the same thing. "I thought I was a genuine good person with great attributes so why am I having this problem." What you just said really hit home, can't believe there are great men out there struggling with the same, I thought I was alone.

[@curtis8315]

I'm a nice guy, and I don't feel entitled to a womans body, I just get super annoyed because after telling the girl that I like how I feel, after finally building up enough courage to do it, not only does she tell me no, but she also tells me that she knew of my feelings for a long time, but would prefer for us to just be friends, wtf?! So my question is who is the real manipultive person btween the nice guy and his crush who 90% of the time probably already knew of his feelings towards her, but instead of confronting him about his feelings towards her, she would rather string him along and take advantage of his time, money and energy?! And if he decides to call it quits after she turns him down he's the 1 who gets accused of being manipulative, because he no longer wants to waste his time, money and energy on her anymore, which is BS, smfh.

[@isaiahyounggod2723]

Fr💯

[@jackbladelive]

Is better you improve yourself more and be high value man and don’t care about her, even if girl need your help, you just help if you think help as gentleman expect no return but if the help you think is not worth it, then start to say no or not free. One day if you can sense girl like the way you are and you also like the way she is then go for it or at the right time ask her did you like me? :)

[@VictorEstevesCastro]

Perhaps the improvement you seek is getting higher confidence to be more assertive when assessing the girls interest and not making it personal if she rejects. Rejection is a sign directing you back to your path, like saying: you won’t find happiness here. So, in the end, if the person do not genuine and easily want you, why bother? The quickest way is back to your path! 🎉

[@sarahchartrand9398]

They're your feelings, it's not someone else's responsibility to tell you they know you have feelings?

[@leoniep9231]

Why should she have to confront you about your feelings, even if she suspected you have them? Maybe she knows and still wishes to prioritize the friendship, and hopes you want to do the same. If you are only her friend up to the point it is clear she will not be in a romantic relationship with you, and this disappointed hope is reason enough for you to leave her alone entirely, you obviously were never interested in her as a person or open to the possibility of only friendship, you are only ever interested in her as a romantic interest. So clearly you had an ulterior motive to stay around, making you the manipulative one. If she enjoyed your company as a friend, but does not want anything more, why would it be in her interest to talk to you about something that might possibly upset you and taint the friendship you both have? She also might not have been absolutely sure about your feelings and did not openly want to assume anything that might not be true - so why should she bring it up if it is something that might embarass/humiliate you and also make her uncomfortable? She could not have known the platonic friendship mattered so little to you that you would leave if she turned you down. So maybe she thought that it was possible to have a friendship with you even after or without a potential confession of feelings, and did not want to force an uncomfortable moment if it did not have to happen. And why do you say that she took advantage of your time, feelings and money, when she maybe honestly just enjoyed the friendship with you? In my opinion, friendship should not be based on one friend spending significantly more money than the other, but if you did so voluntarily under the pretense of being only a friend and being outwardly okay with that, why should she question that? If you only spent more money on her than she did on you in hopes of appearing as a favorable romantic interest to her and ultimately getting into her pants, again, you are the one with the ulterior motive manipulating her in order to get something from her that you want. As I see it, you are just mad the manipulation did not pay off and did not result in the romantic relationship you wanted, which is why you left and seem to still be angry about it. But you also seem to have known that she did not want to be more than friends from the start, she seems to have been very clear (i.e. non-manipulative) in that she had no interest in any other way than platonically, she never got your hopes up or anything. So if you still hoped for something more despite that, it's your fault and not hers. Obviously, I don't know you or her, and whether there also was any manipulation from her side as well, but the specific complaints you made about her behavior are not her responsibility at all, only yours.

[@emiliiadyrenkova7000]

Your example of a guy in an abusive relationship sounds awfully like victim blaming.

[@peterm85]

I'm so glad I didn't turn this off after 2 minutes of objecting loudly in my head. Good insight, thanks.

[@OriginCrxss]

Dope topic. Starting to see more content pop up on this topic here and there. Haven’t seen anything on how to tell the “nice guy” from the guys that may have developed a crush throughout a friendship and/or guys that always had a crush but decided to get to know the person first before trying to move to that type of relationship. I feel like there’s some nuance there that could be discussed. Might not be easily distinguishable in every situation.

[@greaterthanharrowk1679]

Thissss

[@nerdynautilus5373]

The thing that separates nice guys from guys that developed feelings is the sense of entitlement that is associated with nice guys. It’s one thing to develop feelings for some one but respect their crush even if they get rejected, but from what I’ve seen some dudes get angry and toxic when their feelings aren’t reciprocated. That’s the defining characteristic of an ice guy

[@mariecampailla2974]

I thought a nice guy was the opposite of a bad boy or player. Someone who is nice, kind and lovable 🥺

[@cosmicphoto05]

Thanks for this. I've been a "nice guy" pretty much my entire life; never really understanding why women feel safe and comfortable around me, but don't think of me "in that way..." I could never talk about my frustration with anyone, for fear of being interpreted as feeling like I'm "entitled to sex". I've never been angry at women; just sad that I've never known how to be the kind of guy a woman wants to be with. It seems so easy for some (most?) men, but somehow not for me... :( Yes, I've had trauma in my past, and yes, I'm in therapy to deal with it... We'll see how things go...

[@drivemenuts3011]

But Anna defines a nice guy as a person who feels entitled to sex after being nice for a while. That person is a psychopath. That is not how you describe yourself. Like you, when chemistry with a person fizzles, I take it out on myself and wonder why this keeps happening. I occasionally ask for feedback (and rarely get any), but don't make demands or issue blame. I have learnt that when a lady does occasionally use me as a non-romantic boyfriend substitute while she is looking for a man, she was using me, but another reason why she was using me is because my boundaries and limits are non-existent. Watch some Jordan Peterson Vids. They provide some good tips.

[@antisora13]

Therapy is bullshit. Stop wasting your money.

[@didi85515]

@@drivemenuts3011 hey man, speaking as a woman, Jordan Peterson is not the move. Go to therapy

[@zeodark2761]

Just treat women like they’re lesser than you and go with what YOU want. Don’t play therapist or sugar daddy to them. Definitely don’t play best friend. Remember, you’re the main character not them. It’s gross to think of it this way, but it’s literally exactly how the world works and why those other guys have better luck with women than you

[@adinjennings5413]

… I feel seen… as a guy who prides himself on being kind and helping others, but having no ability to set boundaries or say no as a result. I don’t expect or want relationships or sex in return, but am trying to earn respect from people because I can’t get it from myself. The only relationship I’ve been in came from my own misunderstanding of feelings and an inability to say no which really left me in an awkward space as my partner was looking for stuff from me that I wasn’t ready to give but had difficulty saying no because I didn’t want to hurt their feelings or be mean. When that relationship ended I was just left with this icky feeling in my mouth that I had somehow dodged a bullet but was scared of ending up in the same place again.

[@therealkassith7037]

"as a guy who prides himself on being kind and helping others, but having no ability to set boundaries or say no as a result" this is called codependency :(

[@adinjennings5413]

@@therealkassith7037 yeah. It’s something I’m trying to work on. But damn is it tough

[@breakingthemasks]

@@adinjennings5413 ... I feel you bro. Hard core. I'm there myself

[@daidaitastic]

Maybe don't be so quick to accept diagnoses. Being kind and helpful is a good thing. And naturally, it is especially difficult to set boundaries as that kind of person. So give yourself some credit. Something that helped me was to take ownership of that part of myself. Become aware of how you use your kindness and helpfulness and practice doing it with more deliberation. It's helpful if you have people in your life that you trust and value to practice with.

[@lennonlink]

Totally me! Thankfully I'm not like that in 6 years. There was a moment that I understood this pattern and I stopped tell my friends (women) about my "feelings", and I decided not to talk with them, not to go after them to be friends, that's when I also understood that I wasn't important to them either, well to some of them, because they never actively care about me, that was the turning point for me, because it made me understand that I was there to be a emotional support for them, but they weren't that for me.

[@leoniep9231]

Good on you for realizing that! Reciprocity is important. You deserve a true friendship, and not a one-sided one.

[@lin3378]

1:55 Thinking you are special for not being abusive is abusive in itself

[@branmuffin411]

I’m 35 and I’ve only been in one relationship. My ex wife was emotionally abusive from the start and she was called out for it repeatedly by her own best friends. I tolerated everything she did because it was the only relationship I had ever known. I wasn’t initially attracted to her but I fell in love with her because she was the first woman to show interest in me. She admitted she was never attracted to me, but just picked me because I was easy to manipulate. She left me because she was tired of me, but I would still take her back in an instant because I don’t really have any realistic hope of getting anyone better.

[@greaterthanharrowk1679]

As a guy I appreciate the empathy, but some people are just sinister tbh. Also, some guys really ARE nice, but also want to get it, may not necessarily be that they are acting nice to get it. Human psychology varies wildly from individual to individual so the example she gives here is valid, but I'd look at it as one of many variations.

[@BoMwarriorVlog]

Truth is truth. 👍

[@user-vn9sh6hv8r]

Agreed with both points. I came to realise that my "Nice Guy" fiend (oops, typo = accurate Freudian slip so i'll leave it there) was gaslighting me and intentionally isolating me from other people (classic narcissistic traits) and also started "negging" me, so i cut ties with him (thanks lockdown!). I have other guy friends who are genuinely nice, and also want to get it, but they don't resort to using emotional manipulation like "Nice Guys" do, so that's the main point of difference in my experience. Those genuine nice guys respect you when you say no and will keep looking elsewhere because they respect themselves enough to do so too. They don't double-down, make you feel like prey, or throw an entitled tanty like the 'Nice Guys' do... The more conscious we are of our own boundaries, feelings, and self-worth the easier it becomes to discern the difference between the two, and to also spot the red flags in advance.

[@corsayr9629]

"Friendship isn't failure" is a powerful message that everyone should be taught very early.

[@jorugby1988]

Anna has a good point, some guys expect sex/relationships just because they are nice. The problem is that they are ONLY nice. If you are a nice guy, but you also flirt, make yourself attractive, seduce, tease, banter, say no, build a connection, etc and are good at it, you'll less likely to be friendzoned, at most you'll be rejected. Nice guys also fear rejection, which is why they just try to be nice, because it's "safe". When I was younger I got friendzoned because I didn't (know how to) do the things mentioned above (seduce, etc.). Rejection is part of life, it's just a matter of getting used to it, you'll find the more desensitized to it you are, the less you'll be rejected.

[@mydogzty]

Im a nice guy, Im single, staying single, I don't want dramas or anything just friends to count on and not get used.

[@jesss5592]

Real Talk With DnD Flair: Since high school, I've watched pretty much all my guy friends have to deal with girlfriends that constantly wanted the guys to prove themselves. As if, after they've gone on X number of quests to prove their love, she would finally be assured of their dedication. Fast forward some decade(s) down the road, and pretty much all of them have Nice Guy Syndrome. So, when it comes to dude feeling entitled to rewards after Leveling Up their friendships with various tasks, it's like, dude,... that was literally the situation society taught them when they were first learning relationships. (And since a fair amount of the "tasks" were just manufactured drama to emulate a storybook, it's also not surprising that after a while, these dudes grew up to doubt other people's pain as real.) Like, a lot of people treat these dating/society/gender conflicts like they just spontaneously appeared or some dude just randomly made a decision to be an entitled doof, but, honestly, everybody's just reacting to the way they were treated from somebody else reacting to the way their were treated by somebody else who was reacting t~

[@suzanne9464]

I agree

[@coupdeforce]

Wow, that really explains a lot.

[@DeclinedMercy]

If you try to prove yourself to get love you are doing it wrong and being manipulative. If you don't try to prove yourself to get love you are doing it wrong and nobody will go out with you. What's a guy to do but quit dating?

[@suzanne9464]

@@DeclinedMercy whatever happened to just being yourself? If people don’t like it then that’s on them.

[@whisperwalkful]

@@suzanne9464 Just being "yourself" only works for people who are already upstanding personalities. For the rest of us, we have many horrid traits and major turnoffs and past baggage and communication mistakes that need to be worked on.

[@misslorblack]

It does sound a bit like my ex. I don't think he was a person that thought friendships were anything wrong, or that he just hadn't earned their love, but he didn't really enforce boundaries in the relationship (which turned rather codependent), eventually creating resentment and doubts, making him not want to progress further in the relationship, but also being unable to communicate properly and set them in the first place. There was definitely some trauma bonding on my end at the start, I was very emotionally damaged and broken, and didn't think I would ever fall in love, and he was the calm and stable presence that I needed. We were mostly happy for most of the relationship, we just never learned to grow with each other and our needs, and just broke up

[@breakingthemasks]

What's the best way for a guy like that to break up with a girl like you? I think I'm in that relationship now, and it needs to end soon, because the codependency and enabling is growing, not decreasing.

[@misslorblack]

@@breakingthemasks A girl like me in what sense? I'd say probably try therapy to get a support system that will help you deal with the aftermath, as well as with the codependency issues. I'd also suggest reassuring yourself that it's probably better to be single than to be unhappy in a relationship, even if it hurts for a while

[@CupcakeNavi]

This is a really compassionate take. Thank you for sharing this perspective.

[@ItsAsparageese]

This is so, SO constructive. I'm a chick who's always had some sort of knack for both attracting and also helping encourage growth/change in insecure aggressive young men, and I've spent like fifteen years trying to help pipe up about the humanizing etiological factors leading to the toxic behaviors these guys can have. Most discourse on this topic devolves so easily and lazily into just crapping all over them and treating them like a different species. Actually FIXING anything requires spreading information like THIS. You're providing a really great service here, not just in general by providing wisdom for people broadly, but especially by addressing -- SO diplomatically and accessibly -- issues that aren't talked about enough, and which hurt groups of people that many others feel uncomfortable supporting and advocating for. That's really important work toward balance in the world. You're the Avatar of psychology lol. You absolutely rock. I'm so glad I found this channel.

[@moppypuppy781]

They _only_ finish last when it comes to their emotional needs, self-love, and beliefs about self-worth. *_Only_* that. That's all. Geez.

[@robertaguirre85]

I’m still getting over my “nice guyness” I think you hit nail on the head when you said it comes from a place of inadequacy finding a A struggle to say the least. but “my-self work” ie using as many resources as possible without using professional has been doing great thing for me… though I know the real work beings when I had someone to call me on my bs

[@Pssst.ByTheWay]

I feel this so much Im Also in recovery

[@Pssst.ByTheWay]

Ngl, the seeming positive feed back. Omg you are such a great guy!! Was nice but that joy iften turned to ash in the friendzone. Absolutely i wanted more. Its ok. I didnt get it. Fine now i leave. I dont chill hoping for some table scaps of “friendship” i stopped doing myself dirty When i stopped compulsively helping everyone and started standing up for myself. Even if its just a difference of opinion. People started calling bs. Peter you used to be such a nice guy. Help everyone. Now , why you fighting me ( standing your ground of an opinion is fighting aparently) They fully wanted their doormat back Then i got too much for everyone and they buzzed off And yes there is still a lot of anger to work through But im doing the work. Does this resonate woth you too?

[@pinkiepie559]

my first boyfriend was like this, while we were in a relationship I thought it was so amazing how he was there for me and went out of his was to accommodate my bad mental health ! and then when we were on summer vacation when I was 14, he r*ped me. I was so secretive of it because it just didn't seem like something he would do, it felt like he was entitled to a couple mistakes for how well he treated me but we broke up all the same. The next relationship I got into I felt so guilty for never telling his new girlfriend what he had done to me but I found out a few years later that his girlfriend was really emotionally abusive to him. It didn't make sense to me how someone who had ruined my body could be controlled so easily but this completely explains it. Its been almost ten years and he's apologised, I'm learning to heal, thank you Anna, for being a piece of my journey to recovery and learning to love myself bit by bit

[@itoshiibaka8267]

Sorry you went through that. I hope you keep healing! I'm still on that journey too.

[@loganwilcox4037]

Ladies, if you have a "nice guy friend" do both of you a favor and stop hanging out with him. He clearly doesn't see you as a friend and you clearly don't see him as a boyfriend.

[@denismarincas377]

This popped up at the exact right moment lol!

[@StubbornDustin]

Anna usually does :)

[@kovala]

Goddamn this is an incredibly well-reasoned and refreshing take. Thanks for taking a really kind and compassionate perspective on this issue. The world needs more of this nuanced content and less of the hate-filled, click-baity bullshit that seems to be so common these days. Subscribed!

[@mayak.2926]

Omg I can't stop laughing at 0:48 THE TIE! Also I loved this friendly non judgmental approach. You communicate your points excellent!

[@Maggie.can.hug.every.cat.]

Daddy Squarespace could probably use more healthy boundaries.

[@andrewichigo]

I feel that in general men always need to earn a woman's love, rather than be intrinsically lovable (so to speak), whereas the societal ideal is that a woman is inherently deserving of love, with the ones that work harder towards being likable, being the ones who get more love. If that makes any sense

[@cjkalend]

Nah it makes sense, we do need to “earn” their love while they just get it automatically.

[@Aurelia2147]

Me, als a woman don't feel like I deserve love. Yes, society may tell us that a woman has to be won but a woman to become the "prize" she needs to adhere to several different social norms or otherwise she is just mediocre and fades into the background. Therefore I think all sexes suffer from too little self-love

[@Skyra-1992]

Me a woman, grew up knowing no love. Not from family (blood related or otherwise) not from friends etcetera. So that's wrong assumption #1. I have a boyfriend/man/ father of my soon to be child who doesn't need to earn my love i love him just the way he is. Sure he aint perfect, but who is? We motivate eachother to be the best version of ourselves with respect and love.

[@Aurelia2147]

@@theliberation9061 Well, I would suggest that I'm actually a woman who stands out in certain ways (due to my style and my past) and I'm alone and happy to be single actually. I wouldn't mind to have a relationshp but I rather stay alone than be in a bad relationship. Please, do not think there is a formular that makes a woman or man more loveable than others. We have the right to be loved from the very first day we are formed and that ultimately starts with ourselves. I do believe that the very difference that makes us stand out is self-love and healthy confidence

[@Aurelia2147]

@@theliberation9061 I truly understand the frustration but in the end I think that we often stand in our own way and sabotage good connections. Therefore there must be some sort of wound, which can be healed in various ways, one being therapy. Plus I don't want to tell you that you need to love yourself first in order to be loved. That's a really toxic mantra because it would mean people with chronic mental health problems cannot be loved, which is obviously not the case. But I do believe that if we consistently work on ourselves, the chances to allow a person into our lives that is good for is are higher. I feel you about being alone in your mid 20s :) and I'm glad to hear that you found a wonderful partner. It sounds like you are really reflected. Perhaps you're not there where you want to be confident and self-love-wise but it seems like you are on a path towards it and therefore I don't believe that meeting your now partner is that much of a coincedence!

[@TAZUTRA]

I'm a nice guy because I have a problem setting boundaries especially when it's with people I like. I start to feel like I'm just being used for my niceness and it breeds resentment that I feel I'm being taken advantage of tbh. When I try to look up info about nice guys all I find are articles written by women that essentially say I'm a horrible person and I should love doing everything that someone asks of me. Essentially these women would say "If you are a nice guy then you should just be nice and don't complain. If a girl ask you for something just do it and be nice.", which just makes me feel like I can't really speak on the topic?

[@lilunsaved6358]

if you want to talk to someone you like try not to start out in the friend phase. its going to feel like you're being taken advantage of bc you aren't making any moves to be more than friends.

[@PeachHeadzAddiction]

This isn’t necessarily being a ‘nice guy’. In therapy we referred to this as a ‘helping syndrome’ , where you compensate with being useful to someone. The root of that issue may be ‘conditional love’ in childhood. I reccomend looking up that term!

[@cosodesign8953]

It’s crappy when it feels like people are taking advantage of us but ultimately it’s our jobs to speak up for ourselves and lay out boundaries.

[@若鶏えひふ]

Don't expect people to read your mind, just communicate with them. That'd be the first step😊

[@TAZUTRA]

@@若鶏えひふ Not sure what that has to do with being a nice guy. I told a chick I liked her and her response was "I see..." and then that's it. Not sure why you insist on having me putting myself in such a vulnerable position, but I've done it before

[@bigheadrhino]

It really just comes down to fear of rejection. Dating is actually surprisingly easy once you can get over the fear and just communicate your intentions clearly while being totally okay with the other person saying “no.”

[@RichardsWorld]

I never heard someone else talk about a nice guy like this. Awesome point of view.

[@virtual-viking]

Kudos for being the first girl I ever heard talk about _nice guys_ like they're real human beings.

[@Pssst.ByTheWay]

🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@djStens]

ya dude I was surprised and genuinely shocked on the empathy she showed towards this personality type.

[@TerryFT86]

This is really tragic, cuz most ppl are just taught to be nice growing up. Most nice guys don't really seek sexual attentions but it's merely the way they interact with ppl cuz of their upbringing .......... oh and maybe Disney/Hollywood movies kind cement that idea deep in their mind as kid.

[@jesuschild07able]

My husband was an ex-nice guy. He got counseling and left his abusive household. What was bad was when I tried to set boundaries when we dated he took that as I did not care about him. He went back for a time to his abusive ex and that’s when he realized he needed counseling. After he got some healing we dated again but sometimes it creeps in when he cleans the whole house but then thinks he doesn’t do enough.

[@CalculusDaddy]

The real tragedy is the fact that they *think* they aren’t enough, makes them not enough. A real trap of social isolation.

[@Trifler500]

This stereotype (and the men who do this sort of thing) makes things 100x harder for guys who genuinely want to be friends with a woman they know isn't interested in a sexual relationship with them.

[@Joel-pg4yi]

It's funny. Then you people describe that then nice but wanting sex in return is bad but you go give that sex to abusers and criminals. Double standard

[@tarantulat7010]

I think it's great you added that little shot at the people who take advantage of the "nice guy", can't forget the people who gleefully take advantage of vulnerable, unstable or unhappy people.

[@michaelsotomayor5001]

Why don’t we be more introspective? Men and women can behave nicely with each other. Yes either man or woman would behave like this hoping for something in return. It’s fine it’s normal. What’s not normal from BOTH in the interaction would be a) being clingy or b) stringing the other person along. So no you don’t need to change nice guys. You can’t control others’ behavior but you sure can control your own. It’s gonna keep happening. So learn to be transparent and set the record straight.

[@morgwai667]

your definition of a "nice guy" is quite different from what the rest of the world understands by this term...

[@louisgianfrancesco]

I’m very thankful and grateful to know, (like in the first clip) that a “lets just be friends) is a covert rejection. Many guys take the offer as legitimate and then try to qualify for said girl by doing exactly what you just put in the first clip, like the emotional investment.

[@therealkassith7037]

@@theliberation9061 how is it manipulative to tell someone i'm only interested in friendship with, that i only want to be friends? that's honesty which is literally the opposite of manipulation...

[@DeclinedMercy]

@@therealkassith7037 because you cannot have a healthy friendship with someone who is enamored with you. Just don't try to be friends. You don't have to be friends with them. Whether you realize it or not, you are using them for companionship while ignoring their feelings, creating an unhealthy and unbalanced power dynamic.

[@anthonyselgas9143]

All relationships are transactional. The man is just looking for a little bit of romance. Doesn't mean sex is involved. Just don't waste his time.

[@bartunthegreat2999]

Finally someone who talks about nice guys without using the word SIMP

[@michaelpingleton776]

I used to be a hardcore "nice guy". It took me moving out of my parents' house and living on my own for years to break out of that mess, to realize what was causing these behaviors/feelings in me and why it was bad. Thank god I was able to move past that.

[@bigdaddyslick4961]

All being a nice guy means is that you haven't passed her looks threshold

[@michaelsotomayor5001]

I will always be a nice guy. Because I like being treated nicely by others as well…

[@lindsayjsolomon]

You should have “daddy” as an alternate squarespace code at checkout

[@juutuub0]

if a friendship develops into one-sided romantic love, friendship is not a success. it's not even an option anymore. there's good and bad ways to handle that, but it's not wrong to be no longer able to be just a friend

[@allisondoak9425]

I know lots of people who have had friendships like this, it’s not something everyone can or should have to do every time but it’s certainly possible.

[@weirdchannel4428]

I swear when I read the title with the thumbnail, my instincts told me that this girl wanted to make him a big red flag like "Run away. Hail to Satan. Date Criminals. Good hearted people are bad for you."

[@weirdchannel4428]

"I want to burn in hell :D it's fun. Everyone is a bad boy"

[@StephenLawson]

Wait until you're old and no longer hot. You will miss nice guys when all you can get are guys who are using you for clout or money.

[@gefginn3699]

I caught your jab /subtle sarcasm. Well said. I love your sense of humor.

[@_Diggler]

Earning love is hard. Those core wounds are titanium grade scar tissue.

[@louise5511]

"Trauma bonding" is a new phrase I wish didn't apply to me 😣

[@thenopedetective]

My relationships for 100% better after I learned not to trauma bond at the start of dating. Now is just a starting point, something better is ahead when you change how you realty to people to be stage appropriate and slowly disclose relevant vulnerabilities.

[@brianmclain1955]

The idea behind the nice guys finish last montra Is that being nice is more important than winning. Therefore if a genuinely nice guy that nows that he is better for you than someone else. but he believes that another person would make you happier. Regardless of their obviously negative tendencies. He will still willingly give up for that position and you.

[@GrantLulu]

Yeah I've dealt with this from the opposite end, and used to be one of these....more so for relationships not sex. As I got older, I realized there's no point wasting time trying to improve friendships to hopefully have them one day turn into more; also, I wouldn't want to hurt people by making them feel like they were used for poor intentions. I think if you're interested in someone early on, you should let them know within a somewhat short period of time or try flirting or at least hint at it and see where it gets you. If it gets you no where, just find someone else for relationship or w/e purposes and remain friends with the other person if possible (I'd recommend only trying to stay good friends with them if you feel you can get over your attraction with them...I am aware some people are unable to do this). Just don't waste your time praying on something that may or may not happen ...or else you'll regret wasting months or years on something that will never come to be . Great vid as always

[@davidcrowther9504]

You know Anna, you are a very insightful person and a hell of a lot of fun to watch. Thank you.

[@JazBrock]

There are plenty of nice guys our there that are not damaged per se or expecting sex in return for whatever. Just want to find someone else that actually loves us back without wanting something in return.

[@drowninginreverse]

It doesn't help there's tons of popular literature & cinema that touts the sentiment of, "he's not only my boyfriend, he's my best friend". So a romantic, like many romantics, think of friendship like a courtship, where they build a bond on mutual interests & worldviews, support each other's interests, meet friends & family, go through two, maybe 3 of her heartbreaking relationships where she wishes the men she dated were more like "you, the nice guy", only to get involved in another abusive relationship. The feelings grow stronger, especially as she needs more support... Well, who's manipulating who? Both parties are far from innocent.

[@daisy_elle_]

it's sad to see that my boyfriend's family made him a "nice guy" that can never say no to people cause he was raised to please others even though he doesn't always have the resources for that

[@ericmarshall8097]

As a nice guy who is the total Yes Man. I always felt it was sad that women can't appreciate that Nice Guys will do whatever their loved wants. We Nice Guys never can figure out why the girls often get manhandled by the typical Bad boy. I would argue that Anna is referring more to manipulative Bad Boys and nor a true blue Nice Guy. Maybe its just one of those mysteries I. Life that will never be solved.

[@PokeRapper5000]

@@ericmarshall8097 Maybe women want someone they can look up to, not someone they have to look down to. It's easier to look up to a strong 'bad boy' who knows what he wants than to a weak 'nice guy' who just wants to please a woman.

[@tatendamhindurwa6380]

It turns out I'm a "nice guy". I'm working on moving away from that

[@zafferdg]

I also read an analysis somewhere about how because of the patriarchy (always the patriarchy), in a hetero setting, men (as a collective number in analysis here, I understand “not all men”) don’t rely on each other for emotional bonds or to have their emotional needs met. They rely on significant others for emotional needs, so the concept of having emotionally charged conversations is tied to romantic connections rather than platonic. Whereas women have always found other women for support and aren’t shamed for being vulnerable, so their emotional needs are met in a platonic setting. They don’t necessarily find romance when they lean on someone regardless of gender for their emotional needs. This is why when women talk to their “nice guys” friends, they view it as part of the friendship while the “nice guys” might expect it to be romantic. It will do a lot of men good if they vary the sources of their emotional needs, whether other men, therapy, community, family, etc. If society normalizes emotionally bonds between men, allows men to be vulnerable, and just overall works against patriarchal heteronormative norms, it would benefit everyone. (I can also say more how because queer relationships break gender norms/expectations in the first place, they don’t face this same predicament like heteronormative relationships do.)

[@zafferdg]

@@theliberation9061 I agree I think you bring up exactly the points in the reading and I failed to articulate that. Men aren't encouraged to express their feelings because of the patriarchy is what I meant, but I can see how I didn't phrase that very well. Women are not free from misogyny at all. Women who shame men are part of the problems of the patriarchy as well.

[@zafferdg]

@@theliberation9061 Thank you for adding to the discussion. I don't think I was blaming men more so I was stating the problems, but my writing can have holes and I didn't take the time to cover everything.

[@UnicornUniverse333]

@@theliberation9061 we all live in a global patriarchy and we are all hurt by the patriarchy, so if you are turning your brain off when you see the word patriarchy, that is you denying facts

[@mixmastermacaroni]

I had gf ask why haven't i bent over backwards for her... I said because you will lose all respect for me!....

[@uigpoe]

As the nice guy that literally just wanted to be friends with the lovely lady after our relationship didnt work. I can confirm this definitely goes both ways. Cheers for breaking it down real good. Learned a little somethin

[@MarioGreco]

I really appreciate how you went into the “why” and channelled your distaste through understanding and sympathy rather than resentment.

[@pyronac1]

im sorry, i am a nice guy, and enjoy my non sexual friendships with women. i dont expect anything in return for my niceness. if someone does expect something in return for their kindness, then it wasn't kindness to begin with, just manipulation by bullies. dont hate on genuine nice guys. we love you, but dont need to make love to you. also, i dont finish last, i finish when i feel like it. its not a race, live your life by who you want to be, not who they want you to be.

[@randomdude3646]

I agree. This is a stereotype. Shitty guys are shitty guys

[@thenopedetective]

Ok, but this isn't hating on genuine nice guys! There's a world of difference between "he's a "nice guy""(Anna's example) and "he's a nice guy". It's all tone of voice. Very few people here are mistaking genuine kindness for manipulation, and those that are are only doing so because of their own past experiences. No one's saying guys shouldn't be nice! They're guys saying it shouldn't be transactional or for gain, and that becomes obvious really quick after meeting someone if they're a kind person or someone who's only transactionally nice.

[@blackwholesoul7049]

“Personal attack” floating in the background is hilarious 😂

[@sejalpoddar1850]

Can I just say that I love you?❤️ You are like a big sister I never had. Thank you 💕

[@dovesandbats447]

men just want affection like any one else girls get so much of it they will never understand true lonleiness..they think their lonely while the nice guy holding them would go to the ends of the world for them..but your just "friends"

[@adifferentangle7064]

Here's the thing. When you're constantly fighting societal expectation, there is no point at which you get past that. "nice guys" (not sociopaths), will feel like they never receive validation, regardless of their actions or achievements. I think, also, getting into a relationship that is or can be damaging, is not intentional. The problem with growing up with a manipulative, self absorbed parent, is that when you enter adulthood your boundaries are simply nowhere near where other people's boundaries are. And when you first meet a person, they're not going to expect your boundaries to be set where they are, but in my experience most women will test a males boundaries, but in ways men don't immediately recognise. Saying things you don't believe and then defending that statement, and reckless abandon, are not things men typically understand. It took me almost fifteen years to understand that not only were my boundaries not where other people typically set theirs, but that they had pretty much jumped off a cliff and swam off the edge of the earth. A few simple words and i was able to set the appropriate boundaries, and it is surprisingly simple. But yeah. Most guys are lonely and isolated. Don't waste their time and give them a false impression of hope. [edit]: thanks for bringing this topic up.

[@akawojo]

what's wrong with nice guys? I'm a kind and nice person and I'm not like she is describing this "type" here. why put people on to tags so often?

[@mgtowbylogic5592]

The biggest sign you’re dating a nice guy? Easy, you’ll notice but not admit publicly you take him for granted and treat him like trash. Any other questions?

[@zyx7478]

Men don’t be a nice guy, don’t date either Men focus on your excellence and goals