Simplest Way to Set up Cantilevers

[@collinmcdonald1599]

One overlooked detail with cantilevers, if you don't have a front rack or fender running between the tire and the straddle cable, it's a good idea to put a "safety bolt" or reflector mount underneath, mounted on your fork. If you don't, and the brake cable snaps, there's nothing stopping the straddle cable from locking up the front tire, especially if you have knobby tires. This would likely cause a bad crash.

[@petesmitt]

Bikes with canti's generally came from the factory with steel reflector mounts but many people removed them, like they remove the spoke protector on the rear wheel, because they look 'dorky'.. idiots.

[@collinmcdonald1599]

@@petesmitt Agreed. If only they would stop making spoke protectors out of cheap ugly plastic, maybe more people would keep them on.

[@nicholaspetersen8579]

This is a great explanation. The one advantage of cantilevers that gets overlooked is not having to run the pads so close to the rim like you have to with V-brakes, and being able to run regular road levers.

[@OriginalGabriel]

For v-brakes with road levers, theres the Travel Agent by Problem Solvers; been running them for ages on my grocery getter/crap weather commuter.

[@carlosgaspar8447]

@@OriginalGabriel best to just swap the regular road levers with v-brake compatible ones (and possibly shorter v-brake arms).

[@carlosgaspar8447]

regular road levers only really work well with "shorty" cantis. basically, cantis come in a variety of different arm/pivot ratios..

[@rascaltwitch22]

As others have said, mini v-brakes solve a lot of issues with v-brakes/road levers. One thing I didn't hear Russ mention (could've missed it) is that low-profile cantis need to be set closer to the rim as you lower the yoke, which gets you in the same weird setup territory as v-brakes. Depending on your specific bike's geometry, mini-v's can be a good option for working around rack/fender challenges as well. The opposite can also be true, but just something to keep in your list of options.

[@jamesmcpherson3924]

So dumb

[@johnschulz1142]

I like cantilever brakes so much I put a set of Paul’s on my rebuilt Ibis tandem, short reach on the rear and long on the front. Plenty of stopping power even on long downhills.

[@corynardin]

Thanks for that overview. I'm an engineer, and I LOVE math, but when I was trying to get my cantis dialed on a bike I was never happy with them. I tried looking at the math to get any insights into how to adjust them, but never got there. I think the big moment for me is the idea that squishy feel at the lever is maximum braking power. That is so counter intuitive to me. And I think that is part of what seemed like they were never setup up right. Also, the bike is really a 27" touring bike that has 700c wheels. Pretty close, but it makes it even harder to get it dialed. I think I might take another crack at adjusting them. Cheers.

[@chrislukes9037]

Yeah, I understand it, the "squishy" feeling is showing that you actually have the mechanical advantage ("power") to further compress the brake pad against the rim after it initially contacts it; when it's a more "sharp" on/off feeling this indicates that you set up doesn't really provide the mechanical advantage to squeeze much harder against the rim after a certain amount of initial pressure. I _did_ run the math at one point (and even set up an excel model to calculate the mechanical advantage based on all the possible adjustments at one point); haven't dug this back up, but as I remember, the 90-degree rule of thumb Russ provides is maybe not _always_ the "theoretical best" setup for _all_ scenarios (...? ...don't quote me on this, as I haven't re-reviewed the math) but either way generally gets you pretty close, and helps avoid the noob mistake of putting the yoke way too high. In any case, this makes the "squishy feeling" guidance a helpful double-check to at least see that wherever you landed is giving a decent amount of power.

[@chrislukes9037]

Wanted to also comment on some considerations for a 27" to 700c canti conversion, since I had also done one last year, but breaking this out into a separate comment: The basic problem you ran into surely is that the position of the brake track, relative to the canti bosses on the fork will differ slightly when you switch wheel sizes, which means you'll need to re-aim the pads to strike the brake track properly - certainly more-adjustable pad holders help with this. Truth is that even _within_ either 27"- or 700c-designed frames there isn't an _exactly_ standardized position for the fork's canti boss both in terms of horizonal width on either side of the wheel as well as precise height relative to the fork ends (i.e., wheel axle) - the boss position has varied over the years and across bike models, I think particularly with regard to the width/spacing between the brake bosses. Likely, the boss position will be more similar two forks designed for the same size rim though; but the exact boss position, design of the cantilever arms themselves, _and the width of the rims_ (certainly has some varying trends over the years!) can affect exactly how far the brake arm will have swung through it's rotation at the point when the pad reaches the rim's brake track. I suppose this can be a consideration even when _not_ switching wheel sizes, say if you are setting up an older frame that which might have been designed on the assumption of a narrower rim width than your are using, and so might have narrower boss spacing. With many canti brakes, you can rotate the pad holder to better "aim" the pad to the brake track (e.g., other factors the same, you might need to angle the brake pads down a little to strike the slightly lower brake track location of 700c rims if they would otherwise be striking where a 27" wheel's brake track would be). But this raises *another consideration that didn't come up in the video: for the best braking power, the pads should be pressing against the brake track on an axis perpendicular to the surface of the brake track* (even if the pads have been filed, or worn down, to match the surface, the force behind them might be coming in slightly at an angle) - e.g., if you angled the pads downward to strike the lower 700c brake track, the brake arm still may be striking the rim later in its rotation, and so may be "diving" downward as it reaches the rim; aside from power considerations (which might be minute, honestly...?), this can become a problem as the pad wears and the brake pads start diving lower on (and maybe off of!) the brake track as it begins to hit the rim later in the rotation of the brake arm. For cantis with post-style pad attachments, you can also slide the post/pad inward and outward toward the rim (not just rotate) to adjust _where in the brake arm's rotation_ the pad meets the rim - ideally, to that point where line along the brake pad's "post" is perpendicular to the braking surface. Hard to describe without visuals! Sorry for the wall of text (and possibly hard to follow descriptions!) but I figured you might be interested as an engineer, math nerd (I even spared the math!) and fellow 27"-to-700c canti converter!

[@corynardin]

@@chrislukes9037 thanks for the comments. I think I followed it all pretty well. Cheers.

[@JPWack]

Excellent video! Rimbakes are good when set-up right and well mantained, please do a video on brake shoe alignment, I'll bet it will help a lot of folks with screaming brakes

[@c.d.3485]

Thanks for this. Always been a bit disappointed with the brakes on my Moulton. But not now. I can stop quickly, rather than slow down quickly. Tips like this are worth their weight in gold. Cheers, Chris from Cornwall.

[@dorianblue4229]

Hi (scrolling comments for possible extra tips, i've spotted yours as while years in the uk, now ages ago, i did test ride a Moulton and it was up to expectations. Got to love British bikes and do live a good bit of my everyday time on a Roux Etape which i managed to 'sneak' to Italy - just begged a London shop that didnt ship overseas as a rule :) ) But anyway, more to the point - did you swing back the pads as much as possible? If so, did you leave one thin spacer on the brake body (which i see on my brakes at least) or none at all/just the pad? Lastly, would you (or anyone passing by - very welcome) still leave pads hanging superclose to the rim when at rest, or instead leave them as far away from the rim as possible? I get it clear the pads have to be fit as close to the brake bodies, but still can't be sure if the'd better be left far from the rim, when at rest... Sorry for my many newbie stupid questions, i just had a go to ask as this comment wasn't a mere 'thanks' but also a bit technical... cheers!

[@c.d.3485]

@@dorianblue4229 Hello. What I've actually done now is remove those brakes and fitted V brakes. Mounted easily on the existing brake mounting points. Huge improvement. Had to change brake levers as well. Recommend anyone with the old caliper brakes on a Moulton to do this. Cheers.

[@dorianblue4229]

@@c.d.3485 Oh I see. Am newbie forever, but so far I can't say I've been 100% happy with v's, as sooner or later, and no matter the fine tunings, they ended up rubbing on one side and just wouldnt go back in place - except setting them sit more open, which reduced the overall advantage - just explaining/for the record - also, on roadie brifters one cant just fit standard v-brakes apparently... needs some special ones, it seems. I suppose it may also depend on one's routes, I got picky as heading more and more up the Western Alps roads, in my area... Anyway, you were kind to reply, good to hear you found what suits you best on that sure awesome ride (i had a late model Dahon Speed Pro TT while in the uk and still regret i sold it before leaving - didn't appreciate fast bikes back then). Thanks for the time allowed to me here, best :)

[@Mikemalone7873]

I was never an English major, but now I feel I are one… great job simplifying this process. You can definitely translate “Engineer” to English!

[@leqin]

My old vintage specialized uses Schrodingers Cantilevers, which as Russ indicated are based in Quantum Physics - they are working, until you pull the levers and then suddenly they aren't working at all 😀 amazing stuff and far better than Klampers IMHO

[@mathguy829]

Hi, great video! A wider triangular yoke will fix the wide cantilever leverage by increasing the angle between the brake arms and brake cables. (Closer to a right angle for max moment.)

[@RodMesa-e2t]

Thanks Russ! I just picked up an old Trek at a garage sale that has cantilever brakes, and this video really helped a lot.

[@tevemullins8156]

I’m excited for you and your old Schwinn. Kind of reminds me of Spindatt’s old Rockhopper. I love restoring these old bikes to get people riding again. Cheers!!

[@hrcollins1]

Thanks so much for this video! I have two literature degrees and also have a 90’s mountain bike that needs new cantis installed. I’ll be putting this to use almost immediately!

[@matthewlandis441]

This is a great video, one of my favorites on your channel so far. As a dedicated retrogrouch, I've used cantilevers for years, but I had never heard of the 90 degree rule. I checked my own brakes and discovered that through trial and error, they were already set up that way! By the way, the rule works just as well for wide profile cantis, you just need to ignore the position of the cable attachment to the arm. The allen wrench should run along the straddle cable and touch the pivot on the short end. The angle that the straddle cable makes with the arm is irrelevant.

[@speedbird8987]

Nice video Russ. I was always a big proponent of cantilever brakes, but on my last build my mechanic convinced me to go with V-brakes, primarily because the frame didn't have a canti hanger on the back, but also because he feels they work better. I had always hated them because i associated them with cheap big box store bikes. Anyway, he convinced me to go with Box components (which i had never heard of because they're really aimed at the BMX community) and they look and work great. Just another alternative for rim brakes :-) While i like disc brakes, i love the simplicity and low maintenance of rim brakes.

[@sirbentley5526]

How is the modulation with the Box brakes; grabby or no?🚴

[@speedbird8987]

@@sirbentley5526 I have no issues with them - although i don’t ride that particular bike very much

[@christophersmith7703]

Welcome back. I have a bike w/dual pivot brakes, one w/ mechanical disc brakes, had one w/ v brakes and one w/ cantilever -a Surly Pack Rat that I purchased after watching your review. 3k + miles later this is by far my favorite bike and the brakes work great!

[@HondoTrailside]

Thanks for the review. I used a small vise grip plier, or hemostat, to hold the cable at a given point, since I don't have a 3rd hand. While there is a lot of pull from the springs, and I can let the cable slip from my fingers, the vise grip can be set so lightly that it leaves no mark on the cable. This has probably been mentioned but your square did not run through axis of the points you were measuring. The straddle does not need to drop so low on the wheel.

[@kefkalon]

You have demystified cantilever brake set up for me. I have the Paul retros on a Crust Romanceur and a GT Tequesta from the 1990s. Now I feel confident I can adjust them when needed. Thank you.

[@Marcus-mf4dy]

Thanks for the video. I was frustrated by the braking performance of my cantilever brakes but I've just tried your technique and it significantly improved the stopping power.

[@PrabuddhaDasGupta1966]

I could not agree more with what your have said. I have always set my cantilever brakes, which, by the way, are low profile, just like you have suggested. I have always argued in favour of cantilever brakes and could never understand why many people said their cantis were useless. Canties offer powerful braking.

[@primitiveairraid]

Perfect timing; I'm re-building my 2013 Space Horse canti as a gravel touring bike and this should help me get the brakes dialled in properly.

[@alexmiller1658]

I'm about to change out the cockpit on my bike and I've been dreading setting up the cantis again. This gives me a lot more confidence, thanks!

[@TheAhart5]

This video was awesome and so helpful when I was scratching my head during a late night bike tinkering session.

[@PowDRider]

Awesome demo! I been using cantis for sometime now, but never knew I they were set up correctly. Thanks for sharing.

[@anniebikes7002]

Thank you for this video. I always learn something new! I didn't know about short arm cantilevers! I always like when functional, albeit older, bike technology has been improved upon. I have an 80s MB that has long arm cantys, very functional and plenty of space for rack and fenders. Always a bear to work on, but still works 35 years later, whereas my new MB's disc brakes are a technology I'm still learning about.

[@mitchellconnell7893]

My favorite trick to setting up cantilever brakes perfectly is to buy linear pull brakes. Great to hear your insights on low versus high profile braking power. I would have - up to this point - said the exact opposite. Thanks!

[@tornagawn]

From my experience, dating back to my first mountain bike in 1985 (Specialized Rockhopper)…. A long saddle cable (connecting the cantilevers) gives a firmer cable response, but weaker breaking. A shorter saddle cable gives softer/ squishier feedback, but more powerful braking. (I think……like, it’s been ages since running a bike with canti’s and I might have it the wrong way round.) Anyway, V Brakes were marginally better. What else to say? You’re pretty much spot on with your assessments and conclusions, suitably explained with no need for complex maths. Thanks 👍🏻

[@jakedwyer3920]

I have the wide profile paul cantis and I preloaded the brake with a hand clamp right up to the rim and then let it off to the perfect distance before clamping the cable and yoke in place. I set up the paul racers the same way. Both brakes have been awesome. You can lock up the rear wheel if you preload the tension and keep the yoke real low, too low even.

[@walcottav]

Had Vee's on our older drop-bar Burley tandem and never liked the braking feel, performance, or clearance for racks, so removed them and went back to the future with canti's. Happy days! Canti's can be under-appreciated because the collective hive mind memory segment housing canti knowledge has dimmed. Thanks for shining the light. 🙌

[@tauncfester3022]

Burleys back in the early 1990's came with optional Suntour SE cantilevers.

[@davidmulford3828]

Really excellent breakdown of all things canti. I'm also a retro fan (...just as long as we're not talking about bringing back under chainstay U-brakes).

[@RiverCat999]

Thank you. This is helpful. It takes some of the mystery out of the adjustment process. I will try this in the future. Thanks for the video and your input. They are appreciated and thanks again for all the effort that you put into your channel.

[@thecinimod]

Super helpful. Paired with the Park Tool vid on setting up cantis, it was everything I hoped YT would provide and then some. Cheers! 🎉

[@JMJM75257]

This is exactly the information I needed. Been messing with an old giant escaper that I've turned into a bit of an urban bomber! Funnily my intuition with setup got me real close to the 90° you mention!

[@buyung94]

Using marker to set the cable and relaxed cable is what i use and found on my own. Its better than using third hand tool, and u can move and adjust more precise since u can see how much you've the cable and test it and see which is the best for u. I glad that I'm not alone in this marker tech haha

[@DaveCM]

Thanks! I have a 12 year old cross bike and the last time I changed the cables, I must have gotten something off. I have been having a hard time getting rid of chatter on the front. I've never had that problem before and usually adjusting the toe in takes care of it. I've done that dozens of times and double checked the bolts to make sure everything is tight. I will check the angles and suggestions you made to see if I got something wrong there. As for your retro grouch comment, I don't think you are. They do have advantages. A friend of my brother's has a custom built gravel bike and it has rim brakes. He is young and extremely fast. Actually, he is stupid fast.

[@yazzmatazz86]

I've been curious about canti breaks for my retro mtb build but was put off by my lack of knowledge. Thanks for putting in all this time and effort for making this video. I might switch out the V-brakes for wide profile cantis so I can ride in the snowy/slushy winters here based on your helpful info!

[@yateswebb]

i love setting up cantilevers. With good levers, it's fun and pretty easy. Great explanation.

[@harveyransom5694]

Russ, this is probably the most useful video you have put out for me. I totally get what you mean by mushy feeling canti's but didn't realise that gives the most power! I'm going to re-set my brakes over the Easter holidays.

[@haqitman]

This is helpful! My old cannondale has diacompe xce on the front, they are wide profile and they are terrible. The rears were replaced with some lower profile ones that are possibly worse but because they're not set up right. I think i need to swap them, new pads, and adjust and maybe things will be better.

[@Samyouel5]

This is a super helpful explanation. Cantilever brakes have always gotten the best of me over the years.

[@charlesjohnstone7924]

For wide profile cantis, just check your heal doesn't catch it if you have a small frame. Great video.....

[@charlesjohnstone7924]

@@Outsideville It was... 🤬 Wife now has that frame.

[@anielyantra1]

Good job explaining cantilever brakes! ....aaaand yet another reason why 90s MTBs are the pinnacle of bike design!

[@tauncfester3022]

Well except for Cunningham's designs for Nishiki and Haro, and Shimano's Excellence in the New Age groupos.

[@mokujinsan9946]

Bless you mate. This episode was great fun to watch, fantastic work as ever. I have a set of TRP eurox magnesium in white and red on my All City Nature Boy SSCX. These wide profile cantis are perfect for Cyclocross as the speeds ain't that high as you would be pumping out on the roads or even trails, it gets really muddy and horrible in Berlin so that extra clearance is muchos needed . On my other CX bike Im running Tektro Mini V brakes with 105 briffters. The Mini Vs lock the wheels up easier than the eurox but they look horrible in comparison. I have tinkered with the wide profile eurox set up so I can have really nice modulation for single track forest trails and bonkers Berlin tourists n traffic.

[@markowsley4954]

Great explanation. For many people adjusting cantilevers are a lost art. Loved seeing that early 90's Schwinn Paramount mountain bike. The pdg mountain bikes were excellent bikes.

[@FedoraQuilava87Music]

I put those brake yokes on my 92 Timberlin Ridge Runner and I am amazed at the difference they made, not to mention they look cooler

[@davidskogley3570]

Great stuff, many thanks! I just started working on the Schwinn Sierra I bought new in 1987, and it is a great help to know how to deal with the brakes properly. I'd also like to know what handlebars you've got on that bike, since they mighy be a good choice for the Schwinn. Do you have a video about them?

[@michaelmann6482]

Great video. Regarding V-brakes, they’re spendy, but I hope you get a chance to try the Paul Motolites sometime. Hands down the most powerful rim brakes I’ve ever used and work great with drop levers too as long as you get levers designed for V-brakes like the Cane Creek drop V levers.

[@kylehoover114]

Sometimes I forgot how much more powerful they then other brakes

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Might get a chance to try the Motolites. Going to see if I can do a 26inch to 650b conversion with them on the 90s mtb.

[@rodturner4038]

Beware the retrogrouch. Great explanation.

[@rintoule]

I can’t quite agree about v brakes. Using drop bar Tektro and Cane Creek drop bar levers for v brakes you get tremendous stopping power and plenty of modulation if you use a gentle squeeze. Your get disc brake like power in the dry and after one turn of a wheel, in the wet. Never had any difficulty with fitting a rear rack or mudguards front and rear. I always enjoy your channel.

[@Funcentric]

Thank you. Thumbs up. That was quite cool. I have a bike that I modified to be an ebike with a conversion kit and need more braking power. I was thinking I was at a huge disadvantage not having disk brakes but it looks like some improvements can be made on my current cantilever brakes as they are.

[@GuyFast]

OMG I just aligned my pads that they made full contact with my rim. I've even cut out a space out of my plastic mudgards to get it set up right. ;-) But now, my V-brakes are easier to replace. I just buy the pads and replace them. Job done. As a daily commuter anything easy helps.

[@Anatoli-y]

I have a lot of vintage bikes with canti's, and now i got answers for many of my qestions. Thanks! By the way, boughted few days ago a cyclocross bike with Magura HS66 hydraulic rim brakes for drop bars ( something like hs11, but with dropbars brake handle). Its fun ASF :)

[@seanpie5481]

Aaaaaah. The explanation of crisp brake feel vs brake power (despite mushiness) is gold. Thanks. But truly: Cantilevers and front derailleurs are the reasons disk brakes and 1x exist. Love your channel.

[@NeilHodges]

Great advice! This matches what I learned from using cantis for years.

[@cn22willamette]

I have 2 steel Italian CX bikes with cantilevers controlled by one "double pull " (RH) brake lever ( due to an injury). I have to set them up so that the rear brake activates first and firmer than the front so I don't go head over teakettle. I set up the first bike with info from Sheldon Brown at Harris Bikes in 2001. I do have a math degree and was a manufacturing engineer for 44 years but the set-up is just logical when you look at how the brakes have to work. While restoring my first bike and setting up my second I tried to find the fancy open triangle shape cable connector but found that they were simply not available in any shop in my area. I was finally told that the only connecting cable between the levers was the type with a fixed length tube surrounding part of the cable . BECAUSE, apparently a biker broke the lever cable at the at the connector, the connecting cable flopped down on the front tire and locked the wheel sending the rider head over teakettle with serious permanent injuries. Someone was sued and the tube surrounding cable design has been substituted. If I owned a shop I wouldn't sell the older design either. ( In my case It makes balancing the brakes with only my right hand lever tougher because I can only set the sequence of the brake application and not differentiate the firmness and travel of the front and rear brakes. That part is likely not to effect most anyone else but me of course.)

[@dyzoly]

Cantilevers take bit more work, but they definitely have advantages on the V or discs. Once set up, you can forget about them for thousands of Km, and are not so sensitive to damaged rims.

[@helliko]

Word of caution.. According to sheldon the link cable mentioned at 3:31 was not developed for ease of use, but rather, in response to "a rash of bad crashes caused by failure of the main cable". So while having a yoke gives you more adjustability, it also might send you over the bars.

[@muffin4600]

Yeah, this is what the cooperative I work at taught me. On canti's without link cables, your supposed to have a rack, mudguard, or reflector to catch the straddle cable from falling into and locking up the tire

[@mcr8331]

Thanks for the video. I have a bike which lacks of breaking power but I thought the only way would be to change the rim, because of the smooth braking surface. Now I will try to adjust the brakes first. I wonder which will have the greater impact.

[@FutoiBakaKun]

Easily one of the most instructive video you ever made!

[@maxab7e63s5]

Thank you, I was thinking about canti's for my mtb to gravel conversion. I was able to get the v brakes to work pretty well with the travel agent but literally their is only about 10 mm of space between the tire and the brake cable. What low profile budget friendly canti's do you recommend.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

I just ordered a pair of these to test out. Also purple :) www.porkchopbmx.com/dia-compe-988-cantilever-bmx-or-mtb-bicycle-brake.html

[@nipon56470]

Good tips! Like the sharpie idea a lot (use it for other stuff in the workshop, never thought for that). Gonna try to improve my brake set-up this week-end!

[@iandusud]

Another great video. However PLEASE be sure to fit something to catch the straddle cable should the main cable break or the yoke slip, otherwise the straddle wire will lock up the wheel. The consequences of which could be fatal. This was standard (and legal) practice when cantis were commonplace on MTBs, generally using a reflector bracket. People would often remove these brackets if they didn't want reflectors without understanding the real reason why they were fitted.

[@dorianblue4229]

This tip deserves so much more attention by everyone. I'd never seen it this way (always had fenders, but now riding a bike with too little clearance anyway so i had to chop the fender just behind the fork head) Life-saving indeed.

[@Hungry.Camper]

@iandusud Thank you for that nugget of knowledge. I’m actually restoring an old mountain bike and that’s the first thing on my list to go. I’m very new to bike maintenance, do you have any recommendations to catch the straddle cable?

[@paulsmarino]

Thank you! Need to re-do the setup of the medium profile cantis on my project bike and the tip about the witness marks alone will be a big help! I tried reading Sheldon Brown and...um...I enjoyed the English major version 😄 BTW saw on IG you've been trying different bars--hoping there is a vid on that. You have me thinking about replacing my Albatross with a Bosco...

[@jptrainor]

I have a newly restored 80's bike with wide profile cantilevers, and a newly restored 90's bike with narrow cantilevers and they both work just fine. Three decades ago I rode a loaded touring bike with wide cantilevers and they also worked just fine, including braking while coasting down mountains. When I ride a v-brake bike these days they feel awkwardly grabby in comparison.

[@bobk381]

I have two 90’s retro mtb bikes with cantilever brakes. Since they are not very popular today, it has been frustrating finding accurate information about how to adjust them for optimal performance. Until today…. Thank you for a great explanation and demonstration video! But I have a question about flat bar brake levers. I have read that they MUST be short travel levers rather than regular travel or long travel levers. Is this true? Short travel replacement brake levers are difficult to find. Great video!

[@derekhobbs1102]

I've never attempted to play with canties, but this was very helpful for when the time comes.

[@youtubesafename123]

So amazing to see the community come together to help even more people, that discord looks amazing :)

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

It’s a great group.

[@youtubesafename123]

@@PathLessPedaledTV And good job yourself compiling all this data/info and making it into a super useful video. As a volunteer mechanic at my local community bike shop people always struggle on adjusting those brakes on vintage/touring bikes and I myself never really learned how to correctly. People usually just end up leaving the shop with a "good enough" solution and the old canti brakes get blamed for having no stopping power when usually they're just not properly adjusted. Thank you :)

[@dougcohenmiller]

There should be some sort of bikey award for public service you qualify for with this video!

[@peterjv8748]

The Bikeys.

[@peterjv8748]

Or the Bikies?

[@thisishowiedewitt76]

Great tips and visuals. I’d never considered the “90° rule”. And yes, I noticed the use of derailleur cable.

[@petesmitt]

'use of derailleur cable'.. I found that odd; there's no way I'd use thin gear cable for brakes.

[@saintless]

@@petesmitt he said it was temporary however, the Rene Herse cantis do use a thinner gear cable: "Like our centerpull brakes, the new René Herse cantilevers use an extra-thin straddle cable. This is made possible with swiveling attachments to the arms, which eliminate stresses to the cable that occur with standard clamp bolts. The thinner straddle cable isn’t just lighter, it also bends more easily around the straddle cable holder. This eliminates the flex you get with thicker straddle cables, which have to straighten first when you apply the brakes, before they can transmit brake power. The thinner straddle cable makes the René Herse brakes more powerful."

[@OwenSindler]

Hi Russ My son just gave me a set of mini motos. Smooth. Good video.

[@CheesusJist]

As a history major I deeply appreciate all of this explanation

[@mimoschmidt9375]

Have you ever used power hangers for the lovely cantis? I would love to see you testing those.

[@markjthomson]

Nice work! I have canti's on my Mongoose Randonneur touring bike. They work pretty nicely!

[@MangoJim90]

Tried travel agents with front and rear v brakes + road dropbar shifters = works really good!👍🙌 Stopping power is close to 9000 in my opinion. Expected some (kinda) losses in this agents or smth similar, but no! They are really good in my case

[@saintless]

Setting up an '89 Trek Antelope with those DXR v-brakes.. will be curious to see how my experience compares to yours. Also throwing some TRP Revox low profile cantis on my 520 but haven't gotten around to it yet (currently running TRP 8.4 mini-v's but want to add some fenders which are pushing clearance). Thanks for putting the video together, will be useful for sharing on r/bikewrench when the question comes up over and over again.

[@m4rc10]

Nice video. Congrats. An off topic question: do the Paul Touring cantilever brakes fit 26-inch wheels? Or are they designed for 650 wheels?

[@MartyAckerman310]

I majored in electrical engineering. I fixed my canti brakes by changing over to v-brakes. The issue wasn't really the adjustment, it was more that the cable routing got in the way of fenders and front rack. But on my commuter bike, I really don't want to mess around with a lot of fine tuning adjustments. V-brakes are dead simple to adjust and maintain. Even easier than disc brakes, which really require that the bike be put on a workstand for adjustment.

[@daniellarson3068]

@Ralph Reilly Just the same, do they sell new bikes with cantilever brakes? I was in a bike shop a few days ago. I looked at how many new bikes did not have disk brakes. The ones that did not have disk brakes also did not have cantilever brakes. Perhaps V-brakes are better. I've been fighting the cable adjustment on my front cantilever brake for the past couple days and do wonder if the V brakes are better. Perhaps I should ask ELI the ICE man.

[@bunsoybee]

v brakes are less complex and less headache!

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Also limited to long pull / flat bar levers.

[@LaserrSharp]

Great video! I was just about to setup some canti brakes and this helps.

[@cjones7854]

Lots of people ride old bikes and say that Cantis suck but they're using ancient dried out, hard pads. Those won't stop very well and will eat through your rim in no time! Replace with some Kool Stop Salmons!

[@petesmitt]

bingo.. I also use genuine Shimano BR CT91 Cantilever Brake Pads; cheap and effective.

[@billcaveny9495]

I got great, and silent, results with Tectro cyclocross wide canti’s on my cross bike. The secret is to use an up-hanger on the front. I got mine from Spa Cycles in Harrogate UK.🚴🏿‍♂️

[@christopherdavis8967]

I'm glad you did this in a digestable format, canti magic has been largely lost, I disagree with your opinions on V brakes though.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

V brakes are fine with mtb levers but I've never had them work well with drops.

[@christopherdavis8967]

@@PathLessPedaledTV I use full fat V's with problem solvers (currently Motolite's) and minimoto's. They both have the benefit of great modulation without the finicky setup or the shudder (fork depending). My comment wasn't a criticism, in the past we had Zinn, Sheldon and trail and error you're viideo will get most in the ballpark.

[@shawnwakeman6324]

Man, I love this video! Thanks for all the work and testing.

[@ks-pg5sh]

If you have the opportunity, check out the Avid Shorty Ultimate cantis. You can swap the arms between the wide and low-profile positions, which allows a greater degree of flexibility for someone who frequently changes racks/fenders/etc. I had my first pair on a Cross Check, wide in front and narrow out back, and they worked great. I also have a set on the more recently built Pack Rat, and the option to change arm positions eliminated any potential issues with installing the 8-Pack Rack on the bike. (No issues working around the Surly rack and PDW fenders.) They're not nearly as difficult to install or maintain as some of the internet would have us believe. Great video.

[@johnnigri7269]

Thanks for the advice! Buy a third hand tool! I use mine for brakes & derailleur set up. $ well spent !

[@nofahz]

I second buying a third hand tool. I have used it for various components over the years and It's one of those "man how did I get by without this?" Tools. Tensioning unusually long cable runs is another great use. Made an overhaul on my Big Dummy as well as maintenance on a tandem I own much easier

[@Rodrigoralima]

Hey men, do you know if I can change my rival 1x11 cage for a Shimano deore 12v cage so I can use a 11-50 cassette? Missing the cave of bad ideas! TKS dude for all content.

[@cobykluth1878]

Sweet 'deep dive', Russ! Great reference content, thanks.

[@fr3heart]

Thank you, so much good information, I see some canti checking come my day off...

[@mooremediaone]

I can do Canti now! Thanks Russ, wicked good video.

[@mattdunkin5368]

I'd disagree, wide profile have better modulation with an crisp hard stop at the end if wanted. What brake levers are you using. Also, when setting canti's start with the location of the cable hanger slightly over the rack whole and then set the rest of the lever location by pads. Also Tektro's 720s are amazing if you haven't tried them.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

I think crisp is the opposite of modulation here. Drop bar levers. I've tried 720s and they were decent but not great. They felt snappy at the lever but didn't stop as well.

[@zoufyj185]

@@PathLessPedaledTV You didn't give the CR720s a fair trial then. I think for the money they should be on a very short list for people who are considering cantis to put an old bike back into service or frustrated with trying to fuss and adjust narrow profile models. There are not many other wide profile choices out there, and most people aren't willing to pay the price for Paul or lurk on Ebay for old Mafacs, so the default is low profile models. I can lock up both wheels on my tandem on Bay Area 15% hills with the wide profile Tektros (throw away the stock pads and replace with Kool Stops, maybe that was your issue). I raced CX on CR720s on at least 4-5 bikes over 15 years, and they're currently on my Ritchey Swiss Cross as a gravel bike (again on steep Bay area fire roads) where a lot of my rides definitely aren't "party pace". You also skipped over a couple of important points regarding pad adjustment for proper angle contact with the rim and toe in- the CR720s are easily adjustable for all these variables which makes them both easy to set up if you understand cantis and difficult to set up if you don't understand cantis with more variables for sub-optimal adjustment. Love the channel, but as someone who's been riding cantis since the age of toe clips, I feel old by the mystification of what used to be common knowledge BITD- just try to find a shop rat under 40 yo👴 these days who has a clue about how set up cantis!👴

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

@@zoufyj185 CR720s are no longer in production and are hard to find new. I'm glad you liked them, they didn't work for me. I toured with them for the first half of our 3 year tour before I swapped them out for V-brakes because they weren't stopping the bike.

[@zoufyj185]

@@PathLessPedaledTV Oh wow, the 720s discontinued, gut punch! After hearing that my favorite Paul Racer centerpulls also went the way of the dinosaurs. Google says there's still some NOS 720s out there, but my next choice would be, if I couldn't find some old mid-profile Shimano Deores and I had to go low profile, I've liked the Shimano CX 50s. Another aspect of the canti "mystery" is taking into account the width and placement of the canti posts on frames and forks, some brakes play nicer than others on certain frames when this is taken into account. I also think it's important to note the importance of adjusting the brake arm posts so that the pads hit the rims exactly squarely, this needs adjusting as the pads wear. In a worst case scenario it's possible for the pads to dive under the rims when given a hard emergency squeeze, especially when wet, causing a dangerous disaster, this can happen when the brake pad arms are too short or angled too low.

[@mattdunkin5368]

@@PathLessPedaledTV Appreciate the response. I am not sure how clear my first statement was, apologies. I like 720's quite a bit, especially with Kool Stops. I definitely meant what I said too, lots of modulation but at the very end a solid (crisp) lock up if needed. I can get this setup with most wide angled canti's though. I love old Shimano wide style too. I think your feeling the same thing in your vid just maybe with the high profile setup. The key things for canti's is real cable hangers (not y noodles), set slightly above the hole for fenders, good pads, then set the pad angles how you like, and then set the brake straddle length. There's more to it but that is a good start. The right angle thing is okay for the high profile but not the wide profile (which you said). Likewise short cabling whether by brake cable length or straddle cable length will greatly reduce stopping power. 30 years of canti's of every type by me too. Y-noodle hangers and V-brakes killed them.

[@matthiasmay1977]

Hydraulic Magura rim brakes are by far the best rim brakes. Stopping power and modulation like a disk brake.

[@tauncfester3022]

Note that the cantis that Shimano brought in after 1989 (the Exage and others) with the yoke with the built in cable housing preset usually will thwart fine tuning this adjustment. I'm surprised there was no mention of Suntour's and Peterson's Helical Self energizing cantilevers had a pair of those on an MTB tandem and they worked great.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Because the video isn't about every cantilever ever made :). And yes I mention the canti's with a link cable don't allow adjustability.

[@tauncfester3022]

@@PathLessPedaledTV Noted, and acknowledged that your channel mostly covers modern day retro tech applications for adventure riding and touring, I'm surprised you missed the helical energized SE brakes as they were considered pretty highly by Burley and other older tandem manufacturers.

[@tauncfester3022]

It's a shame those same engineers decided mild steel and plastic were a replacement for aluminum.

[@reevegeary8169]

@@tauncfester3022 Gotta hit those price points.

[@andarenbici]

Awsome. Your tech videos are very useful for knownothings such as myself!

[@StanEby1]

Very interesting and helpful. I like the way you think and explain. All the best.

[@franklinmiller2772]

I like cantilevers. Although I haven't tried this myself, Jan Heine recommends using a derailleur cable for the straddle cable so that it runs straighter to the cantilever arms and has less slack to take up.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

I don’t know that he recommends it. He says that’s the ideal but is prone to failure so they developed their own lighter straddle cable.

[@saintless]

@@PathLessPedaledTV yeah.. context matters here, he didn't recommend using shift cable per se, there's a catch: "Like our centerpull brakes, the new René Herse cantilevers use an extra-thin straddle cable. **This is made possible with swiveling attachments to the arms**, which eliminate stresses to the cable that occur with standard clamp bolts. The thinner straddle cable isn’t just lighter, it also bends more easily around the straddle cable holder. This eliminates the flex you get with thicker straddle cables, which have to straighten first when you apply the brakes, before they can transmit brake power. The thinner straddle cable makes the René Herse brakes more powerful."

[@dorianblue4229]

Hey man, i always watch your videos (reviews etc.) with sure pleasure, all the more now that i REALLY need a lil advice (i'm in the Western Alps, Italy, and need to do long journeys in the mountains, winding and steep roads) Just a newbie with mech... Great to learn terminology: i have some "wide profile" brakes ('frogs') on my Roux Etape 150 (entry level but i actually favor it to my AWOL, an otherwise legend of its own and i wouldnt swap either bike easy - but i need to use the canti-braked Roux for my job and mountain passes...) Your vid here is so helping! I just din't get it clear (foreign speaker... my bad 😇😌🙏) at two points: 1 - at around 11:15 minute, by "shifting the pad spacers" do you mean you fit the spacer on the outer side? (= Sequence: spacer - brake - pad, replacing the stock brake-spacer-pad) i spotted the spacer on my Tektros 2 - *even more important* soon after that bit, at 11:34ss, you speak of flattening the yoke cable slack but i'm not sure what you mean in practice: bending the yoke, with some pliers? Just folding/bending the cable (not hazardous for the wearing out kf the cable though?)? What about altogether removing the joke in some sort of way, i dunno, a ring or so? I really need to avoid accidents...& emergencies... forgive the long questions, my friend, hope it's all good for the record!! Hope you'll have your say on this... thanks!

[@danvee4523]

curious if any of this info holds true for center pulls too. I have some brazed on center pulls and I wonder if I could be setting them up better .

[@TheRickurb]

Did you experiment with changing the spring mounting hole position? I know park tool says to insert the spring in the middle hole. That’s where I left it

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

That’ll affect the rate the brake lever returns to normal but not actual braking power.

[@jameshall8260]

Super helpful guide, glad I now have some good rules of thumb rather than winging it.

[@NyleRaps]

Thanks Russ!! My carbon CX bike feels like a death trap.I'm trying to get the brakes set up so that I can get some peace of mind.

[@darioneumann3436]

Another advantage of low profile cantis is more space for your panniers, if you remember those.