Simplifying Streamer Lines (How to Choose a Streamer Line)

  Рет қаралды 3,568

TheSlideinn

TheSlideinn

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 33
@Stardusted
@Stardusted 19 сағат бұрын
Thank you again for your always educational videos! (edit: Noticing some comments of confusion. How I watch and listen to Kelly. This man is an experienced encyclopedia. Luckily we have many options within the fly fishing world to choose from, and many ways to dial in our rod & reel packages. Unfortunately, manufacturer's ratings and descriptions of their products do not "equalize" on any level. Slight differences and terms are used. The cornucopia of choice (and actual results) are overwhelming. Lucky for us, Kelly takes the time to explain this through his experiences. Because of the multiple levels he has to go into/through the info overlaps, but there is gold in there. Take a little time, listen and rewind a little if he mentions your favorite rod weight, or streamer weight.)
@academicmailbox7798
@academicmailbox7798 45 минут бұрын
There's two important ways that one can look at it. The first way, is how Kelly did. Let's decide what kind of forage we're trying to imitate (Bass After Dark episode on world record bass explained that Florida large mouth change forage type when they do reach a certain size, a species of chub bait fish makes up the diet of larger fish, which someone compared with sculpin). The scientists who study growth patterns of fish have figured out a lot of things. Somewhat similar to goby introduction in north. Researchers in Florida also planted a control population of ten rainbow trout in Florida, the radio trackers they embedded were designed to switch on as soon as bait fish had been digested in a stomach. They explained that in first week, eight of ten rainbow trout just under a pound weight had been consumed. And rainbow trout apparent has this high calory conversion in bass digestive system. Bluegill was next, and bluegill made up the bulk of diet of junior bass in Florida (the larger fish more dependent on the chub, or sculpin like bait populations). Meaning that these researchers have a fairly decent idea of where fish of certain size levels occupy water in these lake systems there. What Kelly is essentially saying, that one has to be able to imitate the forage base approximately of fish that one is in the pursuit of. In other words, starting with artificial fly lures that can loosely approximate forage available to predatory fish, one can begin to think about line selection, and fly rod. Okay.
@academicmailbox7798
@academicmailbox7798 38 минут бұрын
The contrasting side to that argument, is the argument that comes from casting instructors (ironically too, these fabulous casting instructors demonstrate casting technique, but never even mention 'the fly'). Which is kind of a problem. The point coming from casting instructors that is well made, is that it can confuse anglers if they are used to fishing with one line profile. And then have to change to a markedly different kind of line. And then back again. I would compare it to gear tackle, sure there are gear tackle rods that are different. But does one have to learn a very different casting technique, if one is using one's quarter ounce rated baitcaster, or one's half ounce, three quarter, one ounce rated baitcaster rods? Not a huge amount. On the gear tackle angling side it is possible to imitate a wide variety of forage types (crankbaits for blue gills, glide baits for trout predated upon by larger predators, and I don't know, perhaps chatterbait lures to imitate sculpin, chub etc). One can get to fish a lot of different kinds of waters, for different class of fish. And pretty much have the same consistent tackle, casting method, line, reels etc. And that is the danger with fly fishing anglers trying to change between different fly line profiles. Here is a Dungeon, I'm going to put on my Dredger line. Or here is a Mickey Finn, I'm going with a gradual front taper of 15 ft (versus the three foot length taper of the other).
@academicmailbox7798
@academicmailbox7798 25 минут бұрын
One can approach it as Kelly has done, from the fly, to the line, up to the rod, and angler. One can do that and it does introduce organization and logic into apparent chaos and confusion. At the expense of one thing, that if one does push that approach too far. And the angler who has only managed to learn gradual front tapered lines, now has to accommodate to something different. That is when we re-introduce confusion and chaos. This time, from the perspective of the casting instructor and their student. From a casting instructor's point of view, if you listen to any of them, they're faced with this kind of daunting task. In a world in which there are too many line products, and far too much abundance of choice and variety. The job of the casting instructor is mainly to prevent complexity becoming overwhelming. And focus the student on the learning of basic technique first. From what I can ascertain, on the gear tackle angling side, there is a similar problem that exists. Experts who train younger anglers have recommended them to learn 'one bait' or system first. Texas rig fishing is almost always that first bait selected, as it is versatile. One selects a plastic bait, a hook and weight of certain size. And one concentrates on one system at first. Versus ending up online, as the young angler, with ten different bait system types, each of which is it's own learning area or specialism. Casting instructors, and gear angling instructors are both faced with the same task, of reduction of complexity instead of adding to it.
@GeorgeSemel
@GeorgeSemel Сағат бұрын
For decades, for my streamer fishing, a Cortland Type 6 10-foot sink tip served me very well for the streams and places I fish. Mostly with an 8'6" 5 wt, my patterns are in size 6 to size 10. No issues; then again, a 30-foot cast was a long one. These days, the number of line choices makes the whole thing confusing.
@delawarepro3539
@delawarepro3539 20 сағат бұрын
“This is Rock & Roll… Throwing Big 💩”
@eralc12
@eralc12 16 сағат бұрын
Thanks, your insights always help
@houserjm11
@houserjm11 3 сағат бұрын
Another great video! Im a line nerd for both fly and gear so this is great info! Does this mean all of Kelly's Airflo lines are obsolete?
@larryalbert1027
@larryalbert1027 20 сағат бұрын
Kelly it's 16 degrees in TC. Mich.
@jimholland1592
@jimholland1592 22 минут бұрын
Thanks for your insights 😉☕️☕️
@academicmailbox7798
@academicmailbox7798 20 сағат бұрын
The comment I'd like to add (up river casting), is why only a simple mono or fluoro leader, a bait fish imitation lure fly and a fly line which floats on, or pretty much in the surfacd film functions in the up river cast. At all. Is because with an up river cast, versus a more down river one (e.g. a lot of trout spey casts, where they tie streamers on their leaders and cast them, tend to be down river swinging fly presentations), . . with an up river fly cast, there is no downstream flowing 'water friction', pull, drag or other resistance, . . that is thugging against the fly and adding degrees of manipulation, outside the influence of the fly angler. In the upstream or up river fly presentation, be it a nymph, a dry fly, a streamer, a floating terrestrial fly pattern or anything. It is the most natural, drag free, non- interference fly presentation cast possible. And in the subset of fly angling referred to as streamer fly angling what that implies, is that one's streamer fly 'has the time' to actually achieve depth levels appropriate (as Kelly would sometimes suggest, anywhere between sub-surface barely, to twelve inches achieved depth or so). And one can achieve these depths (it's the heavy streamer hook that manages to do it on it's own), using nothing only a fly and a leength of leader material. Provided that it is a genuine semi- up river casting presentation. The instant that one moves to an 'across river' flows presentation, immediately there is going to be influence exerted by water flow on the line (and 'sinking' density lines are influenced less by water flows on a perpendicular cast presentation). One of the most satisfying, and most challenging dry or floating fly presentations, is a down river cast presentation. But it is in some ways the most technical, in which to achieve drag free dry fly presentation. But do-able. With streamer down river casts, my hunch is that it's challenge to achieve 'retrieved fly' action, and still not have one's streamer come crashing through the surface in un-natural manner for a bait fish in nature (or any other forage, crayfish etc included). My suspicion though, is using downstream angle casts there are 'seams' of slack water that one can work a streamer submerged fly through (but then a sinking fly line is performing yet another challenging task, of canceling or at least delaying effects on the fly of eddy currents and irregular, unpredictable faster flow pattern that exist all over the river, and between the angler and 'their fly'). The latter presentation puts me in mind of shallow crankbait baits hunting shallower rock gardens, hybrid hunter lure baits and such, which can attract trophy predatory fish. But one would have to be a true master to achieve this most technical presentation type. It's probably how a thirty inch fish might be hooked, and it may not even be a long cast, or presentation. Just a hard one to achieve (downstream casts enable stalking anglers to get closer to really large trout, closer than those anglers ought to be able to).
@Ontariopipeliner22
@Ontariopipeliner22 19 сағат бұрын
im running 330 grain shovel head airflo
@shepherd8203
@shepherd8203 18 сағат бұрын
Thanks great show
@Ericbyhookorbycrook
@Ericbyhookorbycrook 10 сағат бұрын
I need to know if Airflow did ya dirty? It's kinda important to know who's who out there.?? 🤘🏻🤨🤘🏻
@slickydicky
@slickydicky 20 сағат бұрын
Over complicating things is such a fisherman's way to do things. I throw streamers on my floating line and have pretty consistent success. To each their own though
@austinhall485
@austinhall485 20 сағат бұрын
Everybody has a different fishery with different needs
@halvo11
@halvo11 18 сағат бұрын
Works on lots of smaller systems for sure
@slickydicky
@slickydicky 18 сағат бұрын
@@austinhall485 it's called being a salesman
@austinhall485
@austinhall485 17 сағат бұрын
@@slickydicky k bud
@jawnmorrison110
@jawnmorrison110 7 сағат бұрын
I do that but I just use a flouro leader so it sinks a lil faster.
@69adrummer
@69adrummer 20 сағат бұрын
I'm more interested in that plaid shirt. Who's making quality plaid, long sleeve shirts now-a-days?!
@curtbrooks7495
@curtbrooks7495 19 сағат бұрын
Thanks Kelly clear as mud
@academicmailbox7798
@academicmailbox7798 19 сағат бұрын
I've looked at pretty much the whole length of the tutorial here (I'm not yet familiar with the Cortland product), but my guess is as follows. The profile of these Cortland fly lines does not change (i.e. you can get used to casting these Cortland streamer lines and if one gets used to them, they will feel consistent casting different variations of the same basic line). Except what is going one, and it reminds me of MOW tips (the tip lengths could be consistent and there one didn't have to change one's cast, but one could alter length of sinking portion as a percentage total of the MOW tip attachment itself). I.e. 10 foot of which 2,5 feet sunk at 'X' rate, versus 10 foot tip of which 5 feet, or 7,5 feet or 10 feet of which sank at X rate per second. And what Kelly is explaining, is that differeng lines of same basic line profile, can have 10 foot of 30 to 40 feet of line head which sink at 'X' rate (matched to 5, 6, 7 or 8 weight rod). Or one could buy the same line for one's rod, in which the same line contained 10 foot, 15 foot, 20 foot or 25 foot length, out of the same basic 30 to 40 foot length of line head, sink at X rate. And then on top of it all, one get obtain the same items for X (1 inch per sec), Y (3 inch per sec), Z (5 inch per sec), etc. That's basically what happened with 'MOW'. You could obtain 10 foot tips, 2,5 feet of which was a type 5. Or a tip, 7,5 feet of which was type 3. And it's up to the angler to figure out which river or which water either would be suitable for. Or none. Put simply, . . so as not to confuse the nation, . . the way it works, the smaller the river the less line you can get outside the 'top ring' and on the water, per cast. Or visa versa. On a smaller, steeper gradient rushing river, an angry stream a 10 foot Cortland with sink 3, on a five weight rod could be ideal (but pure useless if trying to cast across the Madison). On the Madison to fish a Dungeon, as Kelly explained 20 to 25 feet of sink 3 Cortland line for a six to seven weight rod. Ideal. I fish the small, angry, mountain trout streams, so I have to think about scaling stuff down.
@academicmailbox7798
@academicmailbox7798 19 сағат бұрын
The point is that, if you have the angler who for ninety percent of the calendar year, he throws streamers on the Mad river in Ohio using his Cortland line. That for the ten percent of his fishing time per year, in which he wants to throw a streamer on the Madison on summer break. The ideal thing, is that if that angler is used to a Cortland type line fishing the Mad river. That angler may be able to find a rod and line that enables him to throw streamers on the Madison river. And that Madison river set up should not feel too foreign to the angler from the Mad river in Ohio. Even though Ohio and Montana are not the same. Now that is clever, I will admit.
@academicmailbox7798
@academicmailbox7798 18 сағат бұрын
The 'compact', judging only by what Kelly pulled off of his reel at the end to demonstrate, . . the compact resembles to me, either a shortened and somewhat similar taper of fly line profile, to the non- compact Cortland line version. Or the head length is not shortened, it is the same, thirty to forty feet, but the taper is less aggresive. It might be useful to clarify that difference. Assuming that the Kelly version of the line will have it's own taper design again, which is intended to produce just a bit more splash (I'd agree with Kelly, that the front taper of approx 15 feet is gradual on these Cortland lines. It is maybe not 'rock and roll' enough for certain applications. I also agree wholeheartedly with Kelly, that testing lines is a weighty and considerable task. I don't absolutely enjoy doing it, but I learn an awful lot from the labour invested. And yes, particular line, rod combinations can surprise one (it's not always the first thing that one reaches for that suits best).
@academicmailbox7798
@academicmailbox7798 18 сағат бұрын
At 16:00 minutes there is the short front taper, short rear taper and long 24 foot mid-head length line profile shown as a slide. It's the dredger line profile or something. Maybe it was confusing to add that into the mix, in this tutorial (as the dredger profile, . . sinking density over it's entire 30 feet head length, . . is going to cast on a rod, totally different to a line designed with 15 foot front taper). Oh crap, people are going to get their brains twisted around this pretzel. Oh well, the basic logic of having 'one cast' that is consistent throughout all if one's fishing practice, throughout the year was better explained than anyone, by Klaus Frimor. Klaus merely objected to the idea that anglers should carry skagit and scandi taper fly lines, and even worse change between scandi taper and skagit taper lines during the same day. Why? One has to change casting style depending on which line one had on. Better he argued to have one line profile, and try to do more things with it, so one's cast could remain fairly consistent (one's muscles aren't being asked to get used to one way, and then another). Seal's attempt to harmonize procedure across small teams, so that one guy's kung fu isn't radically different to that of another team member. Frimor's argument about fly casting ditto, angler's shouldn't have to know two types of kung fu.
@andrewwebster13
@andrewwebster13 19 сағат бұрын
Buffalo Ny 28 inches of snow and 28,000 KZbinrs with no girlfriend posting steelhead videos. I used to like winter now I f’n hate it! Thank God none of these idiots know what a blue wing olive is…
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