Loading Lee drive key slugs with BPI short shell wads and Herco powder

34gr Herco
Cheddite 2-3/4" clear hull
BPI Short Shell Wad
20ga 1/2" dry fiber wad
20ga .070" Mini nitro card
6 star crimp

[@ericlaird7508]

I have used 34 grains of LongShot for my 12 gauge loading's Buckshot & Lee keydrive Slugs and it has worked perfectly for me..great video, KEEP ON ROCKIN IT..SirSloop!........................

[@slowpoke2122]

I appreciate what you and FC45 are doing. You both are saving me time and money.

[@jmartin9059]

*THANK YOU FOR SHARING A WILL FIT WAD STACK COMBINATION... FYI: RECENT NEW CAMERA TECHNOLOGY... HIGH SPEED RECORDING FOR slow motion playback... has revealed that SPIN STABILIZATION of slugs is not needed and Foster type or Brenneke type rifled slugs in smooth bore actually do not spin as we all previously believed they might. The way the flat or slightly rounded noses of slug push the air aside do not actually allow those shapes on the perimeter of slugs to impart a spin. We wanted to believe those spin... They actually do not. AND , surprise the hollow skirts or attached wads do allow drag stabilization to keep the nose forward or prevent tumbling. ACCURACY, WITHOUT SPIN... ? YES. ...SHOCKING ? YES, I KNOW...IT IS.*

[@archangel20031]

Taofledermaus did a video on shotgun shells and he did some high speed video footage and the LEE 1 oz slugs do not fly properly because their center of gravity is too far back, but the 7/8 oz slug flies perfectly. Place them both round end down and the 1 oz slug falls over, but the 7/8 oz slug does not.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Just put in the link - my Red Dot loads are only going to be in the 1100-1150 fps zone though - I'll chrono them shortly - reduced powder slugs only - Your slugs are near full power with your Herco and inefficient Blue Dot. I'll be working up to 35 Herco with the 525 slug as well... Best Regards...

[@theronroberts5573]

Yes time and money thank you so much for this information. I've been watching a few different videos on loading there is more information on this video than I've seen on any video so far. Sure do appreciate it.

[@boomerrangerron]

Nice video! I had great luck years ago with 28 grains of HERCO. In a 16GA loading.. Was surprised to learn you were using this because everyone Erle’s preferred Blue Dot or Long Shot.

[@sluggou812beotch]

I think you are using a straight walled hull and a tapered wad which leaves that gap for the powder to leak.

[@JS-dn2mm]

The slug is also bulging the top of the wad (because of the petals) causing a gap at bottom of the hull.

[@marilyngist3152]

thanks for the video, just bought the downrange dark orange aa12 replacment.and clear bpi helix without tear away petals. glad I noticed how short the green mini is 1.480 height.. plus it has tear away petals like 4 other bpi wads

[@Hard2Track]

Instead of using the paper, I just flare the bottom of the wad by pressing it against a flat surface and turning it by hand. Great vid, thank you.

[@fingers967]

I do the same load with 30 to 33 grains of longshot .. its a bit more pressure but burns clean and produces great groups at 150 feet. ive also used clipped waa12 wads and 12s3 wads for near same results with the same powder load .. good luck and thanks for the info .. great video

[@avidhuntr]

What kind of hulls you shooting? I have some of the claybuster replacements for the 12S3 and some claybuster replacements for the WAA12SL, just got a 7/8 ounce Lee mold and looking to put together some rounds. Ive got some Long shot Red Dot and some Unique and hundreds upon hundreds of different range pick ups. Any help would be of great use.

[@ronaldbritton9705]

Do you use the same wads? I was just going to ask him about his powder selection and how he came to select hurco as I could not find any loads using it. And I have Longshot powder.

[@rickdavid1795]

Thank you for the video. Research and development is monumental.

[@mklean1]

Good stuff here. Gave me a better idea of what I need to load mine. I have some LEE 1oz drive keys and some Lyman 1oz. For powder I have BlueDot,Clays and Unique. Might need to lay in some Herco and Red Dot as well. FC-45 seems to get great results with it. BTW He sent me here too. Glad he did. Gave ya a sub and hope to learn a lot. Thanks

[@SirSloop1919]

I've had success with Unique powder as well with these slugs in lighter loads. I haven't used the faster powders for full horse stuff. Probably a little safer with a slower shotgun powder. Shotgun is more difficult to judge pressures than with say a pistol or a rifle. Ya know they run relatively low pressures with a big honkin heavy duty primer. By the time you see a flattened primer you are probably WAYYY past the max load you should be using. Luckily there is generally A TON of load data for Unique, so I'm sure you can find what you're looking for as far as weights, etc. When you start dealing with lesser used powders or lesser used components like Cheddite/Fiocchi hulls, shorty wads, etc... you kinda have to rely on the kick-o-meter and maybe comparison to firing published data loads. I brought some 47gr blue dot loads with me for direct comparison while working up to 33.5gr Herco.

[@vincentnastri7736]

Instead of the paper put your nitro card you put under the slug on top of the powder then your shot cup with slug and one wad and crimp. Powder leak completely cured and better ballistics all round .🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@archangel20031]

If you use a wad that is too tall they will reopen. And yeah, I used one of those formulas with a similar wad design to what you used and they will collapse if you try to compress them before crimping. they seemed to shoot ok, but since I was at an indoor range (all that we have locally) testing for long range accuracy and inspecting the fired wad was a no-go. I'm tempted to take them all apart, install a different wad then roll crimp them all.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Nice job with this - I've come to the same conclusion with that DR XL Blue wad - can't get acceptable accuracy out of it past 25-30 yards - so it's only good for range and plinking uses. All these years, I've never tried BPI (seems like a small company with some unusual slugs, etc), staying with the bigger manufacturers like Lee, Lyman, Winchester, Claybuster, and Downrange. Must be a leftover from my competition trapshooting days - BPI wasn't much into the clay shooting games. But your work is intriguing. We shotgun slug reloaders get a good feel for when crimps are "active" - when we have an excess in column height and are forcing the crimps closed, we get the "active" crimps that will open over time. I'm going back to do work with the Federal wads (stronger compression zones) using once fired roll crimped Fiocchi empties (very similar to your Cheddites) and the Lyman 525 slug. Your video is a good one...and I'm going to add a link to your video on my last one. Have a great day...

[@SirSloop1919]

I haven't bought their slugs, but it looks like some of them are kinda like lightfield knock offs. I get all sorts of black powder components from BPI, which naturally morphed into casting lee slugs and finding something I could have a real fun time shooting on the cheap during this ammo shortage. Seems like shotgun stuff is all still available, except for powder. Cast your own, hulls, wads, cards, 209 primers all readily available. Heck you could probably shoot these things with black powder which around here is readily available. That is if you don't mind wrecking some of your hulls! Good reason to pick up club hulls from the range. I dont know how you would load these into a magtech brass hull hahah but that could be fun!

[@SirSloop1919]

oh yeah... I have had success with those federal wads with roll crimps. The trick is again to get the height correct with a nitro card under the slug, and crimp just the right amount. I use a drill press and set the height for consistency. I also like those federals due to their super strong compression area. tmp.smugmug.com/photos/i-K2wDkbq/0/XL/i-K2wDkbq-XL.jpg . This was with Blue Dot... same issues with lousy ignition. This would fire real well with Herco I'd imagine. I don't know about accuracy compared to these shorties though.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

sir sloop I think another reason I avoided BPI and Lightfield slugs in the past is because of having to buy them when I could cast my Lees for next to nothing. Hard to beat factory performance and accuracy (with their proprietary wad slug systems) with our slugs, but you may have broken the barrier with these BPI wads… Best to ya

[@gdejackmo]

I agree Dr blue wads aren't great at fifty yards. Federal was a little better at fifty yards

[@rooster3019]

The Ballistic Products Lightning 7/8 wad fits the 7/8 Lee slug well IF you use a 20ga felt wad under the slug. That lets the top of rounded shoulder of the slug ride above the petals without trimming. I shoot them in smooth Skeet 1 choke for consistent less than 3" groups at 50 yards. I use the recipe listen in the Ballistic Products charts for this slug and wad and with Green Dot, but reduce the charge by 1g since I added the felt. No signs of over pressure and the wads keep their petals.

[@rickoshay545]

Thanks, I'm going to say I have done Herco, 34 grains with Winchester wads for the 7/8oz slug . I liked it but I want to do what you are doing, I think your method will be even better.

[@jamespollard3066]

My short wad slug load is with the winchester red wad or claybuster replacement 1138 wad. 23 grains of green dot , 1138 wad with 20 gauge card. I then overcrimp on the Lee press so as to see the slug rather than roll crimp. I also use this same 23 grains of green dot , 1138 wad with 10 - 00 buck , stacked by 2 and a normal crimp. Both loads work well with 25 grains of Herco also.

[@wrxs1781]

Try trimming your cases to 2-1/2" and use a roll crimp, never personally had much luck with star crimps on slugs. Most factory slug loadings seem to use roll crimps.

[@blueduck9409]

I was wondering that very thing. I just ordered a hand crank roll crimper. ... they use to roll crimp plain shot loads too. Im beginning to wonder if the roll crimp might just be better for hand loads?

[@wrxs1781]

@@blueduck9409 Save your money if you are ordering the Russian bench mount roll crimper, the best one I have found is the drill or drill press roll crimpers from BPI.

[@blueduck9409]

@@wrxs1781 i already ordered it. It was not expensive at all. I saw an antique roll crimper that was really well made. Cant find that one. Thought id experiment with the cheap one. I will buy others tho, because i want to play around and see which works best for me. I dont do alot of shot gun shooting, but its nice to know i can make plink loads should i want to.

[@bobsbarnworkshop]

I’m thinking the reason the powder is getting by the base of the wad may be because the hull is straight walled and the wad is designed for a tapered wall hull

[@gordoncouger9648]

I always had trouble with slow-burning powders if my wad stack shot cup and the shot didn't fill the shell and make a good hard crimp. There is a reason commercial slugs and buckshot come with roll crimps. A roll crimp lets the powder build up pressure sooner. Blue Dot needs to build pressure as fast as it can. I think roll crimps will make your groups smaller.

[@marilyngist3152]

the 078 lightning wad from Ballistic Products is made for the lee slug. in the mail with rex 24 right now;-)

[@ronaldbritton9705]

Great video how did you come to using the powder that you are using? I am a newbie and there is not much load data out there for this slug. I already bought the mold to start learning to cast but now trying to find a good recipe😊 the only powder I have suitable for shotguns is Longshot.

[@denisdegamon8224]

Your load column isn't right, thats why your shell crimps are openning upon you. Even those clear shell loads that you are liking have an over crimp....needs over shot nitro card to take up some of the space beneath the the fold crimp.

[@spyderxtra777]

I had the same problem with un-burned powder using blue dot when I tried it in .44 special, If I fired 6 I could almost dump enough powder out of the empties to load up a 7th! It did work fairly well in 124gr 9mm+P loads though.

[@filianablanxart8305]

Blue Dot is what it is , and does what it does well . But it is Not a good choice for this application , it is way too slow . ( But I suppose the pressures were very low, if that's what you were seeking .) Slug or not , the weight is still only 7/8 oz , and Blue Dot is rarely used for less than 1.25oz in 12ga . Instead try one of the plethora of powders commonly used for 7/8 to 1oz loads .

[@denisdegamon8224]

Blue dot is for heavy shotshell loads and magnum handgun loads. They also typically use magnum primers for a better powder burn.

[@riverado150]

I'm just starting to get into loading my own shot shells and have studied this video nice job by the way. I have about 1500 1 ounce slugs cast but would like to use these wads and hulls. Where can I find the load data for them to pick a starting point on powder?

[@jakewilliams2263]

Thanks for this. This is really helpful. Wish I'd found this before purchasing the Blue Dot powder.

[@blueduck9409]

Blue dot is bad a$$ used in some pistol loads, dont get down about having blue dot!

[@SirSloop1919]

Finding published load data for this setup will be impossible. I've never seen someone ever use this let alone publish data for it. I have the ballistic products load manuals and it's not in there. You'll want to use reliable cheddite hull data for a 1oz load, and start there. Just finding that for shot can be challenging.

[@thetobaccoguy1751]

Great video. Where did you get this data? I bet a overshot card would work great to stop that powder displacement.

[@sayitlikeitis3596]

You get the Remington "Pink Wads" no abrasive wall

[@gavinkirkland8113]

Great video lots of good information. I am looking to load 12g slug for Practical shotgun with the Lee 7/8oz lead slug. I have seen comments on the Lee mould instructions and elsewhere that only pure lead is preferred, and wondered if you had stuck to pure lead slugs or if range lead with a particular ratio or hardness could be used. I understand that shotgun loads do not produce the same high pressures associated with pistol or rifle. Finally, do you have any 12g load data for Nobel (Glasgow) No: 80 powder and the Lee 7/8oz slug?

[@SirSloop1919]

You can use any mix of lead, as the sabot is what interacts with the bore. For that reason, you could really load anything in these, as long as its 7/8oz. My sabots are from a mix of of dive belts, lead plumbing components, and 1# 50% tin soldering bars. I don't have good load data for No80.

[@gavinkirkland8113]

@@SirSloop1919 Many thx. My LeeLoad-all 2 arrived today, been casting Lee7/8 oz slugs, and found someone selling a Nobel 80 load data book online @abebooks.co.uk :)

[@selvforsyningsomforsg4449]

1205 is the key to the lees - either that or the VP05 which is the BPI 1205 rebranded in china

[@jbfitz196]

You could trim the pedals down

[@leonguthrie7461]

How did these shoot? Anytime the petals is taller than the slugs, you will not get good accuracy. And the purpose of the key in the Lee slug is so it grabs the base of the wad during the shot set-back allowing it to spin with the wad.

[@KLH1966]

Go look up Bubba Roundtree outdoors videos on this. He has loads that work with the Lee key drive slug.

[@user5.56]

Seems like a Round punch would be better for the tissue paper.. They make up to 2.5" Round

[@SirSloop1919]

I don't even use paper anymore on these... just omitted that step and the powder holds fine under the wad

[@infowarforyourmind4342]

I had the same issues. I have some old school Remington and Winchester hulls.Basically fix the problem with using a Win. Pink or red wad. Cork and or nitro card and wad slick. I always hand scoop my powder. Good video I'll try it. Any guess on the fps velocity.

[@marilyngist3152]

should I get tear away petals like your green cup? .. bpi makes a few.. isn't that what you want after it leaves the barrel like a sabot" the slug can never get stuck in the wad..:)

[@slowpoke2122]

Watching now

[@nelsonsantiago629]

Please make a 12 gauge 2-3/4" rifled slug reloading video.

[@SirSloop1919]

Rifled slugs are bore size... more care needs to be taken into the metallurgy of the projectile for those. The great thing about these Lee slugs, is you can cast up any scrap lead and make cheap and easy projectiles.

[@hanss9431]

What about accuracy?

[@ssbadazz]

33gr herco on the 7/8oz slug whats the velocity on that? 👌

[@archangel20031]

Do not deviate from the recipe. Do not deviate from the recipe. DO NOT DEVIATE FROM THE RECIPE! That's all I ever hear, and I have read the Lyman shell reloading book and seen how any one thing different, like the wad can change the pressures up to so called "dangerous" levels. I also read an article where a guy was tasked with doing destructive testing on 870 shot gun barrels and was unable to get any of them to either bulge or blow under 55,000 psi! I also found a recipe for a 7/8 oz shot load and everything was the same as what I have (Gun Club hull, windjammer wad, Remington primer and 17 to 19 grains of Alliant Clay Dot powder) except I have a 7/8 oz LEE slug, and was told (DON'T DO IT!) even though the pressures were real low (5,000 to 7,000) and I have a cylinder bore with no choke for a slug to get pinched tighter in the bore! What is the actual deal with this? How does a shell know the difference between 7/8 oz of #9 bird shot, or 7/8 oz of buck shot or a 7/8 oz slug? If there are any shotgun reloader near me, I am unaware of them!

[@slowpoke2122]

Shouldn't you use an overshot card for the Lee if you are roll crimping. Not so much with a crimp.

[@SirSloop1919]

no overshot card needed with a slug when roll crimping, as long as the shot column is the correct height and the slug is pushed up to the correct height with undershot cards. this prevents you from thinking you have a shot and loading a slug. it also prevents the overshot card from interfering with the slug... accuracy

[@slowpoke2122]

Was just wondering if it might help the wad petals from separating. The reason I'm wondering is I have just poured up about 200 Lee 1 oz. drive keys and the same number in the Hammerhead slugs from slugsrus.com.. I have started down the long road of 12 ga. slug accuracy using a Marlin 512 bolt action rifled barrel and a mossberg 500 smooth bore with several different shotgun powders. Thanx

[@SirSloop1919]

well the job of an overshot card is to hold in shot, not improve the crimp on a roll crimp. the short wads in my other video eliminate the need for it anyway... much better performance than this load

[@blueduck9409]

I wonder if roll crimped shells open up with age, like those star crimped shells do?

[@denisdegamon8224]

Probably not.

[@mattlord2906]

ok i got it it was at the end of the video

[@LOVER-sf3bv]

I'll be experimenting with some 1 1/8oz. no.4 shot with the ballistic products short shell wad in a fiocchi hull using hi-skor 800-x powder if anyone is interested in the results.

[@Hogheadsforbreakfast]

Titewad powder is bad about migrating as well.

[@jasonlopez4855]

How about a roll crimp tool.

[@SirSloop1919]

I have another video where I roll crimp slugs, but I like these crimps and loads much better.

[@jamesboland6072]

sirsloop, r u using 34gr of herco then?and 2/3/4"cheddite hull?

[@yolo-qr2fq]

So instead of using the wad could you use the fs12 flex-seal wad and your felt wad and nitro card because the petals will come of anyways?

[@denisdegamon8224]

Yup

[@pepelapiu2004]

So this recipe? Does it require Chedite hulls? Or can I do the same with range pick-ups?

[@SirSloop1919]

range pickups might work... depends on which hulls you have. you can try them and see which pickups work best. i would back off the powder charge to start though if you use a different hull.

[@richardkeithplank3472]

I’ve gotten fine results with just the slug I take the petals of on purpose

[@nakoawarrior3186]

Ok,.... you buy a BPI slug reloading manual. It gives you all of the possible loades for the lee drive key slug. It tells you what case,..... primer,..... wad,......felt wads,... shot cards,... over shot cards and what type of crimp to use. There is no but this guy told about these blue wads. The blue wads look like a substitute replacement wad for one of the Winchesters like Winchester AA12 or AA12SL OK If the slug manual don't say it don't put it in. A loading manual has all of the possible loading combinations for all cases and calibers. Use the components the book says to use. There is no guessing and mix matching and no dangerous high pressure loads.

[@pepelapiu2004]

So why are the crimps opening? How can you avoid that? New to reloading here and getting tooled up.

[@SirSloop1919]

star crimps will open if the powder, wad, and slug are too tall. when you crimp a column thats too tall, it will compress the wad, which eventually will push the crimp back open.

[@gruntspy44]

Have you shot these out of a cylinder bore?

[@vabeare4173]

Have you checked this load for accuracy yet?

[@SirSloop1919]

Yes these shoot great out of my rifled 870 wingmaster barrel, and out of my smoothbore H&R topper. I don't have direct comparisons to shells like remy sluggers or any of the sabot hunting loads. I use these for plinking, and the accuracy has been every bit what I need. I did have accuracy issues with other shot column combinations. These are by far the best I've ever made.

[@BrokenRRT]

Using a wad in a wad with a card wad and a paper what's the cost per shell?

[@SirSloop1919]

$0.15ish all said and done

[@carldefazio8375]

What other powders could I use with this recipe and how many grains

[@blueduck9409]

Pyrodex is about the safest. Its still available in most places. ... load data can be found in various books, and websites of the powder manufacturer. If anything call the company that makes the powder. They usually help.

[@gruntspy44]

have a load or combo for non rifled?

[@unclee308]

how much to load each hull

[@larryderagowski8273]

try HS6

[@mattlord2906]

what kind of paper was that?

[@shonngamhongshanahpaak102]

Sir can I get that refill machine?

[@robertboggs2257]

Drive key slug not good for rifled barrell

[@robertrivasarroyo1174]

Stick to the recipe!!!! Pedals coming off is not a good thing.

[@rangescrapper271]

First off you're way too proud of yourself for reloading 12 gauge slug woo hoo sucking off that piece of paper may make keep the water in good condition but you're going to have more gas blow by with that paper folded that way path of least resistance

[@SirSloop1919]

If you can come up with a better performing lee drive key slug load I'm all ears.

[@SirSloop1919]

PS i stopped putting paper in them... the powder holds fine without it.