Skills All Card Buyers Need!!

[@ACollectorsDream]

Great conversation, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. Sammy is an awesome guy.

[@SammyThunder]

Thank you for the kind words Orlando.

[@regenerativeliberty7915]

I grew up in the antiques/collectibles business(yes including cards and comics); 1st sale at a flea market was in 1974. I am a third generation dealer and just like with any group of professionals you will find a wide variety of personalities. We were always happy to move inventory and even below cost when something has sat for a while. As a dealer, I am looking to pay 10%-25% of what the top of retail for the item would be - guide pricing. Rarely will I be able to get top retail for something, most of the time I will be selling at 50%-75% of retail. So, never be worried about making an offer at 50-75%, the worst a dealer can say is no. Oh do not say stupid things to dealers like..."I can get it over there cheaper" as they know that is a lie, as you would not be talking to them and you would be over there buying it, once you saw theirs priced higher. How about try "Can I see that card?" If you like it and want to pay less, then follow up with "If I buy a few can we make a deal?" If the answer is no, walk away, period. Lots of dicks in the business, find the dealers who are happy to make deals on lots. Keep in mind a few things I have noticed after fifty years in the business. If I see something I want to buy, but I get the feeling the price is too high, I know enough now to walk away. Within the day or week I will find a better item at a lower price, almost always. Patience is your friend when buying; keep in mind all your profit is made on the buy. I would suspect when the dealer will not move on price, the card is new to them, could be super hot and they know someone will pay up or they have paid too much in general and try to make the money on the sale, rather than on the buy. So, don't get pissed when a dealer offers you 25% of Becket or less. They could not sell the card later for 50%, giving a buyer a deal, if they did not buy smartly in the first place. With cards the market is very fluid, with extreme price variance due to condition and demand. So, we generally price at the high end, which we refer to as the trade price. We will go 25-50% less if you want to pay cash, for sure, if you are buying a few cards. Some items we will mark, "AT MARKET". Not a guide price, but we look up the last one the sold and then look up, what is the lowest amount you could buy that card for today. For instance, last card sold for $20, lowest priced one will cost $30(with shipping), then depending on condition, ourselves and the buyer can come to a fair price for the card we are selling. Best is if you can sell to the high priced dealer and buy off of a dealer like me, who is very cautious of over paying and try to purchase lots/collections to keep the price per card paid down. Oh, two best times to buy is at the start or the end, of an event or day. The first buyers almost always are other dealers who will go through fast and try to pick the best stuff or stuff they know they can move in their store or to their customers fast. Dealers in general want to make their rent early in the day and at the end they want to make my day or event, as good as possible. If you want to buy lots or cases the end, of the show is the time to make your best deals. Last, what is a card worth; guide price, hobby shop price, show price, flea market price? No, to all of those. It is worth what someone is willing to pay for it in the moment. A smart dealer will almost always take a fair offer, as one in the hand is worth two in the bush. This why whenever a dealer is holding firm or only coming down 5-10% I will always walk away. Anyhow hopes this helps give some insight into the business and how different dealers treat their customers.

[@ClementeCollector]

Great conversation,thanks for sharing your thoughts guys! I think something that was somewhat scratched but not fully are the dealers you have a working relationship with. To me- you should not push those dealers, especially if they have given you deals or first look at cards before. Don’t nickel and dime a person like that. I think Sammy’s Ash story was a good example of that.

[@leehaskins307]

what I say to a dealer is “Can you take this “price” for it… I dont say do u have any room on it.. I ask a price and if he cant get close to it I say thanx.. cool card…. I’ll think about it.. and move on...

[@DansVintageBaseballPC]

Great to see Sammy here. One of the true good guys in the hobby. I will often see if a dealer is worth negotiating with by pricing other cards in the display that I know exact values on. At that point, you know whether its worth going after a target card. I think the best lesson I learned (the hard way) is be willing to walk away. I often get the price, tell the dealer I'm going to do my due diligence, and come back equipped with sales data. If they are reasonable, they'll hear me out and we may get a deal. BTW, the dealer Sammy mentions (Ashish), is absolutely one of the best to deal with. I bought a card from him after a fair negotiation about 30 minutes after Sammy bought that Mays.

[@brandonhenry5878]

I think it just depends on the card and what the dealer paid for it. It shouldn’t matter what the dealer paid vs market price but for the dealers ego it does. Also vintage RCs will always have a market so it may depend on the dealers current cash flow. If they can wait they will.

[@SammyThunder]

Brandon, I see what you're saying here and there is definitely a lot to agree with here. I think it's such a complex thing to narrow down because every dealer is different. Comps are great, but every dealer will price things differently based on their reaction and response to the market. I've even seen it where dealers will sell below market sometimes because they'll still make a profit on cards that they got even further below market. I feel like I could go on forever discussing this, but I will say that it all comes down to the fact that every dealer will be different from one another when it comes to pricing.

[@LegendsNeverDieCollection]

Interesting listen. I personally fall more in line with Mike on the negotiating a little more- but with the feel of Sammy being friends with dealers. In my humble opinion, you never know when you may deal with someone again- and I’d rather do business with people I like, and also people that I believe like me. So I approach every dealer with a smile on my face, I’m conversational, and if the sticker on the card I’m interested in is already a good price, or close to what I want to pay I chat for a few, then ask them what they can do on the card(s). I’m typically talking about liking the player or set or whatever in a positive way. Ask them how their show is going. If they collect themselves, things like that. I may take their price after I ask, or counter inna friendly way. Whether I buy or not, I tell them thank you for their time, or letting me look at their card, and wish them luck at the show. I can’t tell you how many times genuinely being nice has “paid off” for me in the short term and long term collecting purchasing from dealers at shows. Granted, my main motivation is more than trying to get cards cheaper (I genuinely care about being nice to people in general ha) but it’s never hurt me in a card negotiation to be a “real person” and not a “customer” only. Just my two cents!

[@pillows3ptb]

I enjoyed your conversation. My least favorite part of collecting is negotiating. I am on west coast and only have 1 show within a 5 hour drive that I am aware of. Most of the time I just pay most recent comp if I am okay with the price because I hate negotiating. Maybe I could get better at it but it almost ruins collecting for me. Mostly I buy on eBay so an auction works well. It was nice to hear Sammy talk like it isn’t his favorite part but has tried to get better at it. Enjoy.

[@stuke1976]

Enjoyed the conversation guys! A lot of common sense.

[@Johndeplume.]

Good conversation, lads. 👍 I think the basic skills buyers need are interpersonal skills, and respect. The buyer can price an item for whatever he wants... buyer doesn't have to pay that price. If can't meet in the middle and come to an agreement, then just move on. No need to discuss completed listings (although, definitely important to know the 'going rate' of an item as a potential buyer), no need to trade insults... just wish the person all the best, and move on to the next buyer/seller.

[@theratedrabbi]

Listened to the podcast version this morning. Priceless knowledge. As always, thanks for sharing and helping me to grow as a collector. Dave

[@anthonystejskal9528]

When trying to find a comp in VCP I have found that there can be quite the price range of a card in each numeral grade. I know things like centering, color and overall “eye appeal” are often the major factors when negotiating a price with a dealer, but there also seems to be the back and forth between buyer and seller on taxes, fees, and shipping. Dealer- “you don’t have to pay sales tax” Buyer- “you don’t have to pay seller or shipping fees” I attempted to do some homework and found the U.S. average of state and local sales tax is 7.14% (excluding 5 states that do not collect). Ebay collects 12.35% in fees but has better rates for Top Rated sellers and I have no don’t know what auction houses usually charge. Do buyers have the upper hand in this part of the negotiation or is it best to call this a wash to avoid conflict and simply concentrate on comps and "eye appeal"? Thanks Mike!

[@CraigsCards62]

Great opening question by Aaron - I think some thoughts of a dealer not budging on price may have to do with how long he has had the card, if not very long, he may be willing hold out, if he has been carrying the card for a while, maybe he will be willing to move it quicker. I also think upcoming shows that he will be selling at may influence his price point. For example, if the next show will be in Pittsburgh, the seller may not move at all on a Clemente, knowing there will be more interest in Pittsburgh.

[@SammyThunder]

Fantastic points made here! That is absolutely true! The time in which a card has been in the possession of the dealer may play into it. I've experienced it before as a buyer.

[@RipFan8]

Hi Mike. Great conversation with Sammy. Really enjoyed both of your views, and thoughts. Talk soon my friend.

[@SammyThunder]

Thanks for checking it out Stephen. I'll have my interview with Mike posted tomorrow. I've been a bit late on videos because of my job, but it'll happen!

[@EverydayCardCollector-Jason]

Great stuff guys. Excited to see you both at Strongsville. Mike I already told Sammy I was bringing poker chips, maybe we can have a late night game in the lobby lol.

[@SammyThunder]

I look forward to our $10 buy in's!

[@Bostnfn]

Mike, I hope you enjoy your banner raising. It's such a great day for your team, and just so much fun. Hope you can soak it up!! ~Allon

[@jamesnguyen7069]

lemonade stand sales, jewlery salesperson, used car salesmen... inside sales... eventually all those skills learned from those jobs come in handy.

[@leehaskins307]

dealers have alot of costs…. show cost, travel cost, hotel cost, food cost… i really dont know how dealers at shows make any money with all those overhead costs… plus maybe like a trailer to haul the inventory.. and maitenance and insurance costs..

[@deadlyredly]

At the Last Toronto Expo I got a Gretzky RC at 60% below his sticker price. He was still at Covid prices and we worked it out.

[@Hodges1455]

Gave the video a like - Enjoyed listening to the discussion

[@brandonhenry5878]

Good topic/content the hunt and the deal is the fun of the hobby. If you are so far off on price compliment his table if it is sincere, just throw out your best price and move on to next table.

[@tbm9160]

If you don't a.s.k., you never g.e.t.

[@mitchlangelle4980]

Mike, I have followed your videos for a couple years now and I cringe every time I hear you say “it’s not my problem” when referring to a dealer being firm on their price due to how much the dealer paid for it. Mike, if you want the card, it is your problem. It probably means the two of you will not come to an agreement. Hey, it’s not the first time you won’t come to an agreement and it won’t be the last. As you say yourself, walk away, but don’t come with this attitude of the dealer having the problem because the dealer won’t meet your price. A dealer can ask whatever price he/she wants. I’m sure that dealer has a reason for asking the price that he/she does. If a buyer doesn’t like the price, you walk away. A buyer can bring up comps, but shouldn't expect that dealer must meet the comps the buyer quotes. Remember also there are many sources of comps for pricing and the dealer and buyer may not be seeing the same information. Here’s my two-cents worth, note what a dealer’s asking price is and give him an offer based on the pricing info you have. From there, if a deal is to be made, the negotiating process will bring it to fruition if both the dealer and buyer are flexible.

[@bobcalderon2534]

Another boring subject. 😢

[@BaseballCollector]

Then why do you keep tuning in?