Skyrim ٠ Citizens Reactions to Imperial Victory in Civil War

In this video, I will show the reactions of the Citizens to the victory of the Empire in the Civil War in Skyrim.
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Skyrim ٠ Citizens Reactions to Imperial Victory in Civil War

[@TIMENGGG]

🔥 *Citizens Reactions to Stormcloak Victory in Civil War --->* kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWq7qKavr6eGZtU

[@RickySama240]

Both General Tullius and Legate Rikke seem to foresee another war coming according to their dialogues.

[@naufeel_abf]

because it is, the real war is with the aldmeri dominion/thalmor, if you sided with the stormcloaks in the final fight before you execute gen tullius he will say this civil war is just thalmor agenda to weaken the empire for the upcoming war

[@RickySama240]

@@naufeel_abf Ahh yeah and that was another important dialogue as well.

[@twistedgiggity7369]

@@naufeel_abf that and if you side with the empire tullius hints at another war with the thalmor. My thoughts on this I think that the empire is trying to unite all of tamriel so they can take on the thalmor a second time. For if tamriel is united the empire has a higher chance at victory against the thalmor and only then will the worship of talos be restored. That is my theory on it. Plus I hate the thalmor with a passion

[@zerwire7856]

Tullius hates the civil war because of it weakening Skyrim not really caring for the sides while the Thalmor were preparing for another war. Even during the civil war Tullius never really enforced the ban of Talos there is even a quest in Markarth we’re the Thalmor request the Dragonborn to find evidence of talos worshipers since the Jarl is refusing to assist them. Even when wearing the amulet of talos the player doesn’t have any consequences or really reaction in imperial cities. Tullius doing the peace treaty only sounds mildly annoyed if you give a lot of territory or favor to Ulfric a lot but agrees regardless since it means peace.

[@zacharyhawley1693]

That's because the war never really ended. It went cold but the genocidal elves want to destroy the world. Skyrim shows Thalmor are already preparing for the resumption of conflict.

[@sbraypaynt]

Only enlightened Nord: “I don’t care that we lost, I’m just glad that the war is over”

[@TheManWhoErasedHisNane]

“Don’t Be Sad You Lost, Be Glad You Won’t Get Killed.”

[@latte876]

Chad 100

[@ericpaunovic3579]

losing a war is worse than war going on especially if you believe in the cause that being said imperial victory in skyrim is definitely a better alternative.

[@LowIQPigeon]

Cuck nord

[@nicolaspereiracoutinho9290]

No 1:31

[@Darkflame1423]

Fun fact through that General talius might be one of the best generals that the Imperium has you can also hear that by the time that we're introduced that this wasn't the first time they've captured Ulfric and he is "somehow kept getting free" which is why he's in a rush to kill Ulfric

[@something1600]

Still decided to kill a random prisoner before Ulfric.

[@TheGeoCheese]

@@something1600 nah it was the captain who didn’t care. If she followed protocol and had Tullius decide as to what to do, Tullius wouldn’t have allowed you to be executed.

[@calebbonney4193]

@@something1600 i mean who was gonna predict the dragon god of ending the world to show up.

[@mc.builder8267]

@@TheGeoCheese ya, but Tulius had to stall the Thalmor so that the executioner’s could kill Ulfric then and there.

[@TheGeoCheese]

@@mc.builder8267 the Thalmor were never supposed to be there to begin with and Tullius suspected they were keeping Skyrim unstable. That’s the only real reason why they’re there. Keep Skyrim unstable so when the time came the Thalmor will be able to quickly conquer Skyrim so having Alduin show up was a pleasant and welcomed surprise for the Thalmor.

[@alexanderstilianov]

Jorleif is such a mad lad. The dude was the -advisor- steward for Ulfric Stormcloak and when the Jarl is killed when the war reaches his castle and the entire government is removed and a new one is installed, Jorleif just chills there like "Oh, I'm just a commoner, not a politician or a soldier. Ulfric only asked me for advice because he valued my outsider's perspective."

[@rustyrodgers7566]

Yeah lmao “I don’t care that we lost” “I don’t miss his temper”😭😭

[@theronfoxfriend8611]

I wanted to join the Stormcloaks when I first started playing. But when I learned The Thalmor wanted the war to continue as a way to sap the Empires resources I was devastated. The whole rebellion was nothing compared to what would come later. I knew the war needed to be ended quickly regardless of people's opinions on the Empire. This would only be the beginning.

[@Strykerclass242]

I have the exact same idea. Does it matter in the grand sceme of things in the game? No. But I will say that Imperial rule seems to be better overall to Stormcloak rule, as everyone is being treated fairly under the Empire, (even orcs, which for a long while were considered barbarus by any they met, are treated fairly.) wile bigotry is widespread with the stormcloaks, where if you’re not a Nord, you might as well be ostracized. Is the Empire perfect? Frack no! But I’d take an Empire who has been fighting wars for centuries and protecting its lands fairly well over a bunch of muscleheads who blindly follow a man who killed his king (when in reality could have been a massive helping hand as he was sympathetic to Ulfric’s cause.)

[@theronfoxfriend8611]

@@Strykerclass242 Completely agree. We need to be playing the long game right now

[@libertariandragon9142]

@@Strykerclass242 You act like the Thalmor wouldn't have interrupted such a meeting, murdered Toryg and framed Ulfric. The civil war was going to happen no matter what Ulfric did.

[@taurine5561]

@@libertariandragon9142 he could have just not kicked up a fuss in the first place, been quiet about his worship until humanity had the resources to kick the Thalmor in the ass like a normal person

[@legadomerrick5301]

@@Strykerclass242 It's true, I was very sad and angry when I talked to Sybille Stentor and I dicovered that Torygg admired Ulfric, He just had to talk to the high king and Torygg could have supported him, But no, he has to look ''superior'' Ulfric needed to kill him to send his message and that to a certain extent understandable taking into account the Nordic tradition but I never understood why Ulfric used the power of his voice in his duel with Torygg. I fully understand that Ulfric was going to win anyway due to the difference in experience in battle, but using the power of the voice seems like cheating to me, the voice is magic, an ancient magic much more powerful than conventional magic Why the hell did he challenge the high King to a sword duel and if he was going to end up using magic? The excuses don't matter or if Torygg really died from the shout or if he was just shot down and then finished off. Ulfric unnecessarily cheated in a sword duel that he could have won fairly, but he had to show off, he had to try to look powerful. Now I understand why in Solitude they say it was murder, for example it is as if I challenged someone to a duel of swords and ended up using a gun during the duel, knowing that with my experience I could win without using a firearm, this detail added to racism was what made me not join Ulfric's side.

[@samalvey8168]

I was always an Empire supporter at heart, especially since I fought in the depths of Oblivion in the previous game to save it and the world and I wasn't going to let that and Martin's sacrifice be in vain. Whiterun being directly threatened by Ulfric also played a part in my decision, and because I also saw the Stormcloaks as being incredibly short-sighted. The Empire weren't any happier about the treaty with the Thalmor than the Stormcloaks were, but they at least could see the bigger picture and were willing to suck up their pride for the sake of it. Plus, the Empire didn't even enforce the Talos ban until the Stormcloaks started agitating about it and began stirring up the Thalmor, forcing the Empire to step in and keep another war from happening. It was clear to me that the Empire was only paying lip service to the Thalmor until they could regain enough strength to fight and destroy them for good.

[@anthonysauls1446]

I debate this with my friends all the time. Honestly I wasn't sure you comment wasn't one of my own when I first read it. You made pretty much all the same arguments I do, including being there during the Oblivion crisis (it's no wonder why those who have played other elder Scrolls games generally support the Empire and those that support the Stormcloaks are generally those that only got into the game with the skyrim hype).

[@samalvey8168]

@@anthonysauls1446 Indeed. That said, I am not blind to the flaws of the Empire. It's main one is certainly its very superior and condescending attitude towards the provinces which they see as uncivilised without Imperial influence; recall that even General Tullius states this belief. That said, at least they are capable of eating humble pie and acknowledging when they might be wrong about something since Tullius admits at the end of the Imperial campaign that he has grown to respect Skyrim and its people on their own merit. The Stormcloaks never really change their hostile attitude towards non-Nords if they win even if you help them as a non-Nord.

[@keyariwiley4313]

@@anthonysauls1446 would y’all believe me if I said that when I first ever got the game I went with the imperials because I knew already they was the good guys of the situation just because of Hadvar

[@anthonysauls1446]

@@keyariwiley4313 Hadvar does a good job of showing the Empire as good guys, the issue I think is that you are going to be executed by the empire and they come off as kinda jerks, then you work with the stormcloaks, who have been showing their side of the story the whole start and come off as heroes and freedom fighters, so when the time comes to follow the Imperial or the Stormcloak most people choose the Stormcloak so then they just get bombarded with stormcloak propaganda and point of view while not knowing the rest of the elderscrolls history.

[@anthonysauls1446]

@@samalvey8168 the Empire isn't perfect, but it's the only thing standing in the way of the Dominion and total domination and Imperial rule has always been good for unity, peace, and prosperity of all of Tamriel.

[@SaucyAlfredo]

Makes me think TES6 will be the second Great War. Or just before or after. I’d rather actually be involved in a massive war rather than have it be some distant memory though

[@MAlru005]

Yea, especially since ES6 is hinted to be in hammerfell which has always had problems with the thalmor

[@SaucyAlfredo]

@@MAlru005 I think it'll be the thalmor trying to take hammerfell again but since skyrim civil war has long been dealt with they'll join back up with the empire who would have won but Titus Mede II would have been assassinated so his son or something would be in power. We would be "The savior of Hammerfell" or something like that and would beat back the thalmor

[@HolyGuacamole666]

@TrulyGrassy The elder scrolls Skywind and Skyblivion

[@BLOrtega]

Since TES6 was "said" to be in Hammerfell, you can take solace in the fact that you'll be smacking elves left, right and center since they usually deal with the Thalmor in that way

[@tyraniusspartacus8073]

@@MAlru005 Hammerfell and High Rock

[@MoonlightBgWolfs]

Imperial victory reactions: Stormcloak: I'm so mad we lost, smh Everyone else: Times are hard, but now we have peace and everything seems to be improving Stormcloak victory reactions: Stormcloaks: Now we finally have a nord leader and can pray to Talos! Everyone else: I'm going broke because nords don't like any non-nordic folk / They are stealing my stuff / They are savages

[@cadenross4314]

Now I’m glad I sided with the imperials

[@natobrando]

glory to stormcloaks and nordics

[@wjp1238]

Textbook editorialism.

[@goblinslayer7806]

Imperial = more money and contact with other lands = more money for the thieves guild yes

[@leepoppop5523]

I didn't side with none, because I don't like the Imperial leader the stupid woman. I really want to kill her. And I don't like Stormclack because he was just greedy for power and used this as an excuse. I ain't picking none

[@ryokohonda4619]

The former jarls got a better place compared to the others when storm cloaks won

[@u-wot-n8]

I stumbled upon them in the blue palace basement, and they were all cursing me out, and I'm thinking "what did I do to y-- oh right, kicking your ass in war... That's fair."

[@angelsaurusrex6969]

The only reason I joined the imperial army was because I thought hadvar was so nice, especially to the other races telling them they’ll send their remains back to their homeland.

[@blob22201]

Lol he says he'd be decent to you after the empire kills you for no reason

[@demonkil6283]

Plus i dont want to be a racist

[@clydecash5659]

I always go with stormcloaks because I wasn’t on the list. If that imperial officer was so casual and open about sending me to my death without justification, we can easily assume there weee a lot of innocent lives lost this way.

[@tacitplague7079]

@Clyde Cash yeah but the storm cloaks really have no endgame plans, they want independence from the empire due to the worshiping of Talos being banned but the empire only did that because they lost a war with the high elevs, So say the storm cloaks win and they get independence and start openly worshiping talos again what's to stop the high elves who defeated the entire empire just destroying them?

[@clydecash5659]

@ Tacitplague Awfully hard for a bunch of milk drinking elves whom are used to living in tropical climates to go and stretch their forces across Skyrim’s cold mountainous lands just to enforce a stupid ban. Sometimes it’s better to die than become slaves to a bunch of pompous elves.

[@laksanawongdee3565]

Video suggestions: 1. At the end of Stormcloak questline where you confront Rikke and Tulius, you can talk to Ulfric, Galmar and Rikke about how they feel, having to kill each other. 2. If you finish civil war before asking Jarl of Whiterun to capture dragon, you can learn Odahviing's name from Paarthurnax instead of Esbern. (I'm not sure if all these are in vanilla game or added by cutting room floor/open civil war mod though.)

[@turbogoblin8232]

The thing about partysnax is in the base game. I managed to convince him to let me trap the dragon without a piece council..I did this for the whole purposes of avoiding the blades

[@olympusthedarkone83]

@@turbogoblin8232 Same, I remember I accidentally came across the secret options from Parthaanax because I didn’t want to fight him, he was just too nice to kill 🥺

[@mrluthfians01]

funny story, at first i was thinking to join the stormcloak because im a nord and thinking skyrim belong to the nord, but after what they did to me in markarth i changed my mind and join the empire.

[@alex_ho]

The Helgen situation but reversed

[@shadowranger5907]

Also they replace good Jarls with shitty ones

[@TheOriginalJphyper]

@@shadowranger5907 The Imperials put Maven in charge of Riften, so I wouldn't go praising them just yet.

[@shadowranger5907]

@@TheOriginalJphyper Just saying 100 percent of the stormcloak jarls suck

[@hyejinmoon4882]

@@shadowranger5907 Dengeir is good. He even knows Ulfric is bad, and kinda has a right to be paranoid. But the rest of them are bad.

[@popepisspot1675]

When you finish the war on imperial victory the general outright tells you that the empire is trying to rebuild and rearm for a 2nd great war. So for me aiding the rebels seemed counter productive since the imperials also wanted to get rid off the thalmor influence and worship once again Talos.

[@damackabet.4611]

It's been 26 years since the last war, they aren't rebuilding shit. Their being cowards.

[@alphadoughnut2651]

Because the Empire is SOOOO good at fighting the thalmor. How are they going to win without the support of both the Nords AND the red guards? I’ve always felt the empire is far past it’s prime

[@StealthTheFoxz]

​@@alphadoughnut2651 Rather the Empire than the Thalmor.

[@MrRawrCEO]

@@alphadoughnut2651 Redguards had tacit help from empire soldiers and have no love of the thalmor so I feel like they'd help. Also about half the nords supported the empire in the civil war so it stands to reason they'd help too.

[@gorkhawarlord4943]

Don't let the rebels sully Martin's sacrifice. Remember our friend.

[@caiminmills2667]

Don't let the Empire forget Tiber Septim. Remember Talos.

[@willedson3031]

@@caiminmills2667 Saint Martin

[@johnreed4743]

@@caiminmills2667 No one was, until Ulfric started reeeing all over the place about it. Before then, the ban on Talos worship was loosely enforced, and even the Thalmor didn't really care about it because they had bigger stuff to deal with, and the Empire turned a blind eye to Talos worship. However, when Ulfric came in and started making a fuss about it, the Thalmor moved in and started making moves to actually enforce the ban. Ulfric is literally the cause of half of what he accuses the Empire of doing. Banning Thalos worship? It's his extremist actions which led to it. The Empire being forced to kowtow to the Thalmor in Skyrim? That's because they saw an opportunity to throw the country into Civil War once he started his schism. Hell, the very Civil War? People close to Torygg said it could have been averted, since he admired Ulfric, and might have actually considered independence if Ulfric had asked. As it is, Ulfric being an extremist nationalist caused a bloody conflict that caused thousands of deaths and severely hindered the country's ability to defend itself.

[@teldryn1040]

I miss the Septim Dynasty. I was more familiar playing Elder Scrolls III and IV, and Uriel Septim VII in my opinion was the best Emperor. I became more familiar with Skyrim with how much Bethesda improved the franchise since 1994.

[@BakedPotatoYT1]

@@johnreed4743 Yeah, the Thalmor moved in and really did enforce the ban to make more heat between the Empire and the rebels further weakening the Imperials and giving the Thalmor an upper-hand. Ulfric literally only thinks for the present, that the worship of Talos should be restored while the Empire is thinking on the long run by accepting the peace-treaty and rebuilding their strength which would lead to Empire possibly overtaking the Aldmeri Dominion in the next great war.

[@goblinslayer7806]

If I were a Skyrim citizen I wouldn’t lie I’d feel more safe under imperial rule

[@demiserofd]

Really? With the Thalmor roaming freely and allowed to take almost any action they deem necessary to wipe out the worship of Talos? When it's the Imperials who have skeletons in their dungeons?

[@froilanflorentino1252]

​@@demiserofdnot for long tho Both sides have hidden skeletons in their closet

[@demiserofd]

@@froilanflorentino1252 No they don't. Go to Windhelm; no torturers, no skeletons. Now go to Castle Dour in Solitude: torture chambers, dead prisoners.

[@froilanflorentino1252]

@@demiserofd And remind me how Ulfric gained the title of being the bear of Markarth?

[@demiserofd]

@@froilanflorentino1252 That book(The Bear of Markarth) was written by an IMPERIAL scholar; the same scholars who wrote a book staunchly insisting that this 'Alduin' character was just a myth and probably just a different name for Akatosh. So we know they're full of it. He got the name for driving out the Reachmen from Markarth, after being begged to do so by the Jarl - who then threw him in prison and blamed him for the whole thing. So anything said about him with regards to the Markarth Incident should be taken with a MASSIVE grain of salt. What seems more likely; that Ulfric, unprompted, decided to unilaterally execute every male in Markarth, yet oddly spared Madanach and all the others in the Silverblood Mines? Despite having no connection to the Silverbloods or reason to stop the fighting to listen to them? Or maybe he reclaimed the Reach, handed things back to the Jarl, who was pissed off at the reachmen, and used the opportunity to execute them and blame Ulfric when he was in jail and couldn't defend himself? I know which option sounds more feasible to me.

[@zalabit927]

Tulius: All that's left is the Thalmor to deal with, this has given Tamriel a chance to fight back their domain. Ulfric: Bad imperials gone, Skyrim free🗿 Wait, why do i hear combat music?

[@dbelow_1556]

He literally talks about a coming war immediately after the end of the battle of solitude, you could try making your case without lying

[@thecatfather857]

@@dbelow_1556 Do not immediately attribute to malice what can easily be attributed to ignorance. That being said, with a Stormcloak victory, the Thalmor would be expecting a move like that. An independent Skyrim won't be able to last against the Dominion like an independent Hammerfell did. Both Nords and Redguards have proud warrior cultures, but Nords are more glory seekers while Redguards are more pragmatic. The Stormcloaks would get clowned by the Thalmor.

[@Treyast]

@@thecatfather857 Yeah, and considering the only major source of magical knowledge in Skyrim is the College of Winterhold (which is shunned and detested by most in Skyrim), Skyrim isn't well prepared to take on magical threats by itself. If the Nords work with others who can actually counter the magic of the Thalmor, then they have a better chance. Also, Ulfric would have a hard time working with other more magically inclined races; their bigotry and ignorance is their undoing. Ulfric may have the voice, but that is basically ineffective against anyone who can cast a basic ward spell, which includes pretty much every Thalmor warrior. He'd get hus ass clapped by the Thalmor as soon as he marched towards Cyrodill

[@thecatfather857]

@@Treyast I think the Voice getting blocked by a simple Ward spell is some in-game balancing BS. *No way* is that how it works in the lore. Not to mention the fact that Ulfric's voice is likely very pale in comparison to the Dragonborn's. That the only Words of Power he knows are the first two words to Unrelenting Force. While powerful, the Dragonborn would be able to just shrug it off, and proceed to completely and utterly *delete* Ulfric with all three words.

[@Treyast]

@@thecatfather857 The Voice is magic, wards block magic, therefore wards block The Voice. Seems simple to me. I don't know why it'd behave much differently to any spell in-lore. It'd probably be a lot harder to do in lore though; the mage casting the ward would probably have to be an expert in Alteration to avoid the ward breaking. Also, shouts don't have a cooldown in lore, so the ward user would need to have a large magicka reserve in order to both defend and attack, but it's still a hard counter, and considering there are barely any Voice users left alive, I would imagine that it wouldn't be too hard for the Thalmor to kill the ones left over simply through attrition.

[@mikevignola4213]

I side with the Empire. Jarl Balgruuf the Greater is just more likeable than that Grey Mane snake.

[@whoevencaresbra-5990]

Which is sad because I wish the Dragonborn could use his friendship with Balgruuf to make him side with the stormcloaks instead of having to raid Whiterun after saving it from dragons

[@istoppedcaring6209]

but go to falkreath and you wil find that an honorable leader is replaced with a terrible one

[@istoppedcaring6209]

@@whoevencaresbra-5990 balgruuf was always closer to the empire though, his guards carry imperial arms greaves and wrist armor after all whiterun is pretty much like the US during ww1, it is perfectly clear that it preferes one side but would rather stay by the sidelines as long as there is no immediate treath, also because the population is more divided

[@mikevignola4213]

@@istoppedcaring6209 I think the companions are a better parallel to the us, because when the stormcloaks invade the "honorable" warriors stay on the sidelines due to politics, the same group that criticizes you for not jumping in against a giant when you first approach whiterun.

[@istoppedcaring6209]

@@mikevignola4213 they are more like switzerland then though, or Belgium of which the neutrallity was guaranteed by Britain prior to ww1 anyway the US was closer to Britain as whiterun is closer to the empire

[@aviatorengineer3491]

In some ways it feels like Hermir never actually developed political opinions of her own - her tutelage under Oengul probably rubbed off that political identity on her and she's basically just parroting the opinions of the people around her. I'm Imperial through and through but sometimes Maven Black-Briar's sheer smugness is almost enough to make me consider taking the Stormcloak side. Laila seemed a pretty good Jarl for Riften, even if she was on the "wrong side" of the war. Wish we'd have been able to turn Jarls instead of just replacing them outright.

[@Treegonaut]

Lalia isn't much better, first time you enter her throne room you can overhear a conversation of her taking to her steward. Basically saying if a dragon attacks Riften then she should have a carriage prepared and she should leave first before her citizens. Also she's pretty much blind to the corruption and Thieves Guild in Riften.

[@DeltaDaspleto]

Maven also pretty much controls the town whether or not Laila is in charge. An Imperial victory just makes Maven's station as "the leader of Riften" more official.

[@MrJinglejanglejingle]

Best part of it all? Like Lex Luthor said, "Do you know how much power I'd have to give up to become President!?" Maven's now FRONT AND CENTER for the Empire and Riften's citizens. She might be smug now, but... She's 300% fucked from this point forward.

[@firenze6478]

You can get rid of her by doing the negotiation quest and then joining the stormcloaks. She will reveal herself and then you retake riften

[@MrRawrCEO]

Laila is basically Elisif but without competent stewards. Well meaning but ultimately an incompetent puppet.

[@kuruk0115]

A united Empire has a better chance at defeating the Aldmeri Dominion.

[@PureGarbageWithCheese]

**Laughs in Redguard.**

[@jacobscott7261]

@@PureGarbageWithCheese You aren’t wrong, but I feel like if everyone stayed with the empire, then things might be better. Also, they might not win a second time.

[@cdcdrr]

@@PureGarbageWithCheese Hammerfell successfully united and beat the Dominion when it was already reeling from the Empire's counteroffensive. The difference was that the Empire could no longer ignore the suffering the war effort had caused for its people. The Redguard on the other hand, could not ignore the suffering the Dominion inflicted on their province. In fact, I suspect the Empire was shrewd enough to realize they were handing the Dominion a poison pill. Let those who have the motivation to fight continue the struggle, while they tend to the morale of their other subjects.

[@mompleaser]

dont care, dangerous freedom is always better

[@nowayman7609]

@@mompleaser Dangerous freedom that leads to Nazi Elves wiping out mankind type of dangerous freedom

[@NautyCat]

The empire is the last hope for all races that are not altmer.

[@v.h.6343]

Some Altmers are on the empire side. There is an altmer legate in the rift, he clairly talks about his disdain for the thalmor.

[@daigonmocs0785]

If ulfric somehow took on the thalmor with his tiny army and won he would treat all non nords the way he treats the argonians and dunmer in Windhelm

[@presentking344]

A lot of High Elves hate the Thalmor but keep quiet bc if they speak out there dead

[@MangoesMan10]

@@v.h.6343 Also remember Chancellor Ocato, he was an altmer, extremely loyal to the empire but the Thalmor killed him during the great war.

[@v.h.6343]

@@MangoesMan10 Yes exactly !

[@v.h.6343]

Argonians, dunmers, bosmers, altmers (who are not thalmors), khajiits about Ulfric's death : "We can live a bit better now". Nords (just half of them) : "Ooooh Look, we are so oppressed !!" Haha, ridiculous mourners !

[@alex_ho]

"The Nords have lost thousands in the Great War!" *Cyrodiil which has lost countless more*

[@robfus]

Nords:"help me im oppressed" *living in a good house with fire, riches, food ecc*

[@demen9589]

You that in lore all the race you've named are fcking racist too right? Some even more

[@generaltobias3777]

The Empire doesn't allow racism? I hate the Empire!!!

[@patnewbie2177]

S'wits and milkdrinkers, the lot of them. "Our freedom to worship Talos is being denied" even though there's a guy freely ranting and raving about it in Whiterun.

[@alexanderstilianov]

1:26 It always slays me when people just all but admit being criminals to a random passerby/a legion soldier/the person who ended the civil war and brought the Imperial rule to town. It's like in Morrowind when you ask someone what "their trade" is and they start explaining to you what a Thief or a Rogue is and how one operates. It kinda makes me imagine Thief being more of an occupation, when even right as you're released from prison in Seyda Neen and the dude that goes "Ah yes, we've been expecting you." totally doesn't bat an eye when you tell him your class is "Thief" but then go to steal the lime ware platter they pseudo-arrest you but let you go anyway since it's still the tutorial.

[@calogix]

Suspension of belief. Look it up

[@plotagonroy7997]

You know each reaction I've seen of this civil war, but feel Bethesda could have done more with it, and especially have you fight the Thalmor more in a war plot, because they were actually the true enemies, and both sides didn't like them. We all know they want the Empire weak and Skyrim for them to take over. I'm just saying they should have created another third option where either you win with Imperials or Stormcloaks you would end up in war with the Thalmor. That would have spiced up the Civil War quest a lot more better, and free Skyrim of the Thalmor.

[@sparklingwater7380]

they should let you side with the thalmor because after all they are the good guys

[@CheomaNozomi]

The next war against the Thalmor might be the plot of TES VI.

[@adrianradu2332]

I totally agree with that! Normally, I would side with the imperials but because of how incomplete the whole war arc feels, you can't help but feel that you just threw Skyrim in the hands of the Thalmor, which sucks. It would be really cool to include a following chapter, where you diminish the thalmor's influence, regardless who wins the war and they could do it in a way that it gives satisfaction for Skyrim while keeping enough content for a potential war with the Thalmor in a TES 6

[@sparklingwater7380]

@@adrianradu2332 well if they are doing a thalmor war thing it would be kinda lame if they didn’t at least have strong influence in skyrim, after all the throat of the world is there so they are going to invade skyrim eventually. it would kinda suck if we push them out of skyrim just to find out in tes6 they invaded again lol

[@leekent3587]

@@CheomaNozomi highly doubt it, as they teased a screenshot/trailer of high mountains and ocean nearby with a castle on a high peek, it seems more like High Rock & Part of Hammerfell?. Who knows if they'll make an ending canon..from the civil war option, or perhaps thhe 3rd option where you make the imperials n stormcloaks have a truce till you deal with the dragons is the canon one, who knows?.

[@seryusakinikaido9534]

Joining the Imperials is the best way to keep Cyrodil, Skyrim, and High Rock together against the Summerset Isles (Alinor), Valenwood, and Elsweyer. Together they can take down the Thalmor as proved by Hammerfell.

[@HeartCalcos]

I want a game in Elsweyer so bad. Imagine how pretty that place would look

[@Sodacacik]

hammerfell proved you dont need the zero backbone empire.

[@toschiworlds7212]

If the empire declares open war against the dominion, there's a chance that Hammerfell might join their efforts as an ally. I'm not overly familiar with the lore surounding the current situation in Hammerfell, so I might be wrong but I think it would a neat touch if they fought side by side with the empire.

[@kevinhenrique4256]

​@@toschiworlds7212 its Heavily implied in the Lore that Hammerfell is still loyal to the Empire,When the Empire "Abandoned" Hammerfell they also "disbanded" Hammerfell Legions and did not bother to call their soldiers and Equipment back Home,Supicious Don't you say?,Specially since their relationship is Great Even after being "abandoned",is definitaly a Plot to trick the Talmor,and Bypass the Treaty

[@hismajestyofhimboism1460]

Also hammerfell and morrowind have a better chance at forming an alliance with a cosmopolitan entity like the empire in a war against the dominion over say a highly nationalistic and uncompromising organization like the stormcloaks, who are deeply distrusting to outsiders and have a history of specific bad blood, especially with the dunmer. I think lots of folks understandably don't think about the broader geopolitics of the situation, but when you do there really is only one option if you want a tamriel free of dominion rule

[@HJHWolf]

There should be a option to be a high king myself with the power of the dragonborn.

[@piratavorak]

The dragonborn should be the emperor in the next game

[@Daddy_Skeletor]

Might be the reason we never get to see the election of the next High King. Perhaps the true canon ending to the civil war in the next game will be Skyrim reunited unter the Dragonborn

[@daigonmocs0785]

The septim bloodline had ended, so the dragonborn could be the new tiber septim who makes the new empire

[@iSeeCorpses]

Would be awesome

[@mark5222]

I'll very much like to make my own rebellion than becoming Ulfric's or the Empire's bitch.

[@tylerisadumb]

Sword through the chest? That's a new one. Much ballsier than an arrow to the knee.

[@christophernoel9932]

I got hit with that one stepping foot into the tavern in Windhelm. First time, had me double back at that man and wait a second to let it click.

[@Blackferret66]

That should be a Draugr dialogue.

[@IsmaelCasanova-m8u]

When they say they got an arrow to the knee it means they got married

[@notveryartificial4486]

In short - some occasional Nords hate it, everyone else loves it or at least doesn't mind

[@NightWolf1988]

If the Stormcloaks wasn't doing what the Thalmor wanted by breaking Skyrim from the Empire of Man then I would join the Stormcloaks but as it is the Thalmor are sitting back laughing while the Stormcloaks do the job for them.

[@cataclysm2773]

wouldn't be surprised to find out, that Thalmor have started the Talos religion

[@daigonmocs0785]

@@cataclysm2773 It was me all along flash I made the talos religion

[@Purriah]

@@cataclysm2773 bro what

[@naufeel_abf]

exactly why most people sided with the empire, skyrim for nords cause is well, but the problem is the mastermind behind these civil war are stormcloaks beloved "talos hunter" ooof the irony not to mention ulfric's ambition (many people from stormcloak side said this)

[@madara992]

The thalmor just wants the civil war to let on they don’t want neither to Win in the war

[@bridgetbrennan6615]

I’m my most recent playthrough, I wondered whether I had made a mistake joining the imperials. Then I talked to the Argonians at the Windhelm docks. That’s when I knew I made the right choice.

[@BlackFang2]

Doesn't matter what side you choose. Racism will always be a problem with the people, regardless of who is in charge. Sure Ulfric isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. But his cause is right (There's a reason why you find him in Sovenguard after his death). You understand that the Empire will continue to serve the Thalmor right (Even after Ulfric's defeat)? Let me translate: Banning freedom of religion and speech. Allowing corrupted people like Maven Black Briar become a Jarl. Opportunistic chance for the Thalmor to finalize their plan and rule Skyrim. (Keep in mind the Thalmor are extremely racist and hate pretty much any race that isn't a high elf, especially NORDS). Skyrim is the homeland of Nords, in fact Windhelm is the oldest city in Skyrim. That doesn't give them the right to be a racist. However, it is their right to determine who can enter Skyrim and who can't. It's THEIR homeland, not the Imperial's land, and definitely NOT the Thalmor's land. Plus the Thalmor has made it clear that they want all Nords dead. I know that sounds like an exaggeration, but it isn't. Why else do you think the Thalmor are here? Not to meantion, the Imperials tried to be-head you simply for crossing a border... A really stupid reason to kill an innocent person. And who's to say this is their first time doing this? They've probably carelessly executed multiple innocents for similar reasons. If you join the Imperials, you are LITERALLY allowing the Imperials and Thalmor to invade Skyrim... And that is far worse than racism... I don't know about you. But never in hell would I ever allow someone to invade my homeland and take my right of speech and religion. Just to stop a problem that can never truly be solved (Racism).

[@delta2372]

The empire doesn't like the thalmor, the idea is that they are playing along with them to buy time and build up their strength to fight back against them, allot of the imperials also worship talos in secret.

[@rebelsoldier2352]

@@delta2372 the line is drawn when the empire lets the fucking elf gestapo imprison and torture nords

[@ssilent8202]

Do the argonians live any differently after the imperial victory?

[@myself2noone]

@Rebel Soldier You can just order them to stop that with an imperial victory.

[@Naruku2121]

In most playthroughs I find siding with the Empire the more sensible play atleast in the long run. Sure the empire isn't as 'prestigious' as it once was. But the Nords while slighted the ones with Ulfric seemed a bit shortsighted or fool-hardy. Sure they beat a greatly diminished Empire in one instance, but they lost casualties they won't so easy recover from, and weaking Cyrodil means if they loose that the Thalmor will now have the border to stage an invasion right in front of them. They would likely fall as soon as the Thalmor could spare the forces they would swarm Skyrim. Atleast Cyrodil could of been a buffer but they lost that. Mean while if they put some of their grievances aside. The Empire would likely used the truce to bide time to regain forces. Once they could regroup and come up with a plan and had they won there's no doubt that they would have re-instated Talos and likely any other appeasements to the Nords. Likely the Thalmor knew exactly what banning Talos and the White-Gold concordant would do even if they consider it a personal afront.

[@klawschafer7425]

That's the whole thing that people don't get. There's literal proof in the game you find during the MAIN quest saying the Thalmor support the civil war because it weakens skyrim and the empire. The empire didn't want to sign the white gold concordat, and it sucks the nords got screwed over, but it's selfish to think your religion is worth more than an entire empire and it's people. Anyway, though, that combined with the fact the Thalmor both want the war and almost certainly WILL invade Skyrim if the Stormcloaks win should make the empire the obvious choice. But I suppose since the Stormcloaks are technically in the right about the immediate situation people ignore the bigger picture.

[@everythingsalright1121]

The way I see it if the stormcloaks win they can't sustain their rule for long. Losing numbers in the war + ruining relations with all nonhuman races even further. Skyrim isn't exactly self sufficient. They import most of their food from other places. I doubt many of them will want to do trade with the racist stormcloaks

[@strikeranimus2721]

The civil war was orchestrated by the Thalmor in the first place to weaken Skyrim. They knew what they were doing would cause outrage amongst the people. Even if Ulfric didn't start the war, the Thalmor would have found someone to fill his shoes. You can't really blame Ulfric for this by extension. The Thalmor just straight up outsmarted everyone. They have their hand in pretty much everything and have the Empire by the balls. The Empire tried to play defensively, slowly building their strength, so the Thalmor threw a wrench in their plans by instigating the civil war. While starting the Civil War wasn't exactly in Skyrim's best interest, the Stormcliaks at least tried to fight against their situation and oppression. The real reality of the situation is that both the Empire and the Stormcloaks messed up here. The Empire acted out of fear, hoping they could stop the rebellion and keep relations good between them and the Thalmor, but in reality, by fighting their own people, they just made it easier for the Thalmor in the long run. A war was inevitable no matter what choice the Empire made. That's why I find the Empire's stance all the more appaling. Want to avoid war with an oppressor? Kill your own people to avoid it. Absolutely disgusting mindset when you really think about it. That mind game is why the Thalmor are so dangerous.

[@Strykerclass242]

@@strikeranimus2721 honestly the only people I could see the empire turn to would be Hammerfell, as they are the only people who fully kicked them out of their lands.

[@anthonyspitery6332]

I also hate to admit it but I think the game wants the player to chose the empire and have the big ego of comparing themselves to Tiber Septim, as they are dragonborn as well and can seize power in controlling an army, as ulfric, the pretender who knows one shout is willing to do

[@dirkechoes1377]

Dunmer: Enslaves Argonians, Khajiit, Nords, basically every race for hundreds if not thousands of years Dunmer during the Argonian invasion: Skyriiiiim help us, the Argonians are beating us up for no good reason Dunmer in Skyrim: Why is everyone being mean to us?

[@cowgod1945]

😂 yeah my sympathy towards them was very limited, I actually believed they deserved the treatment they got

[@ThatRatBastard]

Dunmer had it coming. IIRC one of the reasons Argonians weren't allowed into Windhelm was because of the Dunmer. Ulfric should have exiled the elves and brought the Argonians into the city

[@pawn5253]

yeah why shouldnt we treat people badly because of their race when an empire of mainly their race controlled by 400-500 very rich and powerful wizards does bad things.

[@zeche8477]

I don’t know why any dark elves thought it was a good idea to flee to the homeland of one of their oldest enemies. Cyrodiil’s right fucking there, go live in Cheydinhal you dumb blue bastards.

[@childsupportpaymentsaredue9145]

So lets blaim all of them for somthing that happened hundreds of years before their birth 💀

[@piratavorak]

This new empire have the same mentality of the empire we saw in oblivion, all races are the same under the law

[@SPIRE_FAN]

It's honestly a refreshing fictional (and historical) narrative twist to have an Empire be overall good. We always think of Empires like in Star Wars, to hear praise in-game about their cosmopolitan ways for all races is great.

[@DreamersOfReality]

I hate it. The Empire was far more complicated before Oblivion. It's not "refreshing", it's forgetting that the Empire committed genocide against the Khajiit. That they conquered an entire continent, killing perhaps millions. That they irradiated a portion of Elsweyr testing the Numidium. That no one can be free of their rule. If they truly cared about cooperation, they would accept autononous, sovereign nations existing in a Federation.

[@piratavorak]

@@DreamersOfReality they already do, every province have it's own king.

[@EEE-pv2eo]

@@DreamersOfReality The Empire during the Oblivion Crisis in the lore did some pretty messed up stuff. Blackmash exists as an independent country that left the Empire because they literally got no help during the Oblivion Crisis. I see that as a completely legitimate reason to leave so they did

[@diobrando5764]

Generally, everyone is happier with imperial rule. The empire is good for Skyrim. Sadly, all the salty ass Nords and Stormcloak sympathizers too short-sighted to realize how important it is and how devastating the Talos worship was for the empire. They would rather fight the Empire than the real threat of the Thalmor. Taking the empire down in Skyrim only makes the Thalmor happier. I’m very sure the Empire would allow Skyrim sovereignty if the Thalmor was no longer holding the empire by the balls.

[@andrewodea7235]

If you look into it nether side winning is good the war as a whole was pushed by the thalmor to further weaken the empire and Skyrim to be easier to take over the only option that would have been helpful to Skyrim would have been them to unite under one banner and not fight but sadly Bethesda has other plans I guess but either side winning is a loss for Skyrim

[@diobrando5764]

@@andrewodea7235 True. Imperial rule is better for Skyrim as it not only creates an alliance with one of the most powerful dynasties, but also encourages trade and alliances with many other nations. Nords, by nature, are stubborn and standoffish and will take any insult or threat seriously and often times, to the death via fighting. The Empire kept Skyrim’s Nords on a leash as their greatest warriors. If it hadn’t been for the Empire, Skyrim would likely be wiped out by the Aldmeri long ago. Either due to Talos worship or Nordic ignorance and their obsession with glorious battles and sovngarde. The Empire saved Skyrim from pushing its people to extinction.

[@zeche8477]

I’ve always found it supremely hypocritical that the dark elves in Windhelm always bitch about Nord racism as if they’d be any better if the situation was reversed.

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

Given that there are people in this comments section talking about "Nazi Nords", the average Skyrim noob only freaks out when it's the fair-skinned humans doing it.

[@firenze6478]

Also the dark elf who owns a farm literally says he wishes his brothers and sisters would stop whining about oppression and try to contribute like he does. The high elf even states that they just don’t try to even understand the nords

[@akiraigarashi2874]

@@firenze6478 The high elf was earning money from high elf bandits so she didn't have to care much about the nords. For example, the argonians are literally paid a pittance compared to a nord for the same work in the docks. There is way too much evidence that the stormcloaks suck

[@joseestevezhernandez558]

Even better, imagine the argonians and the dunmer crammed in the grey quarter....

[@muslimayupov]

do you even realize that only house redoran and telvanni citizens hated other races while members and citizens of house hlaalu are respectful towards other races due to the empire and its influence. gnisis and balmora were belonhed to house hlaalu

[@tbu_drachenkater5397]

The empire is the best

[@alejandroguzmanrodriguez854]

The empire is corrupt and just a shadow of its former self... but they are still the best chance to defeat the Thalmor.

[@tbu_drachenkater5397]

@@alejandroguzmanrodriguez854 the stormcloaks are getting support by the thalmor, because they want to keep the war going, so they can expand without disturbances. And if the stormcloaks win, then is the empire even more weekend and whole Tamriel is endangered, because if every state in Tamriel makes its own thing everybody (except the thalmor) looses.

[@alejandroguzmanrodriguez854]

@@tbu_drachenkater5397 yes, as I said they (the empire) are the best chance against the Thalmor, I just don't idealize them, they have their flaws but even with them they are the best option

[@John-l6u9d]

Globalist milk drinker

[@Andeey1708]

I've never played as an argonian, so I ask those of you who have; if you play an argonian character, and join the stormcloak rebellion, is there a unique voiceline about the no-argonian-inside-the-city policy when you buy Hjerim after the butcher quest? like how they will make an exception in your case or something?

[@enzoribeiro8363]

.

[@Daddy_Skeletor]

Galmar has a unique voiceline for every race when joining but thats it I think

[@mguy5923]

I guess you're just one of the good ones. 🤷‍♂️

[@CallMeElwis94]

Kinda late to the party, but no - Stormcloacks got nothing to say if you're an Argonian. In fact, carry them to victory, and they will still have the audacity to mock you for being a lizard.

[@iSeeCorpses]

@@CallMeElwis94 one of the things i h8 in skyrim

[@yharnamiyhill787]

It's funny, when I was young and naive in high-school, I'd join the Stormcloaks. After becoming older, wiser, and studied the geopolitics, history, and investigating the Great War in great detail, also listening and reading through all of Skyrim's inhabitants' testimonies - I am siding with the Empire 100%. (No neutrality, the Civil War must end and we have to unite against the Thalmor - not because they are elves, but we must restore unity of Tamerial against the Daedra(s). We must have the liberty to govern our own lives - men and mer.)

[@raviadityaa_]

Nope, unity for fight the talmor?. Hammerfell independent was push back talmor invasion without empire, hear from red guard people. Imagine skyrim free and fight talmor too. White concordat just for sake of empire. But i admit Ulfric is not a best ruler🥲

[@samuelhaverghast2442]

@@raviadityaa_ Unity is the best way to fight them, and Hammerfell didn't fully push them back, while they did make it so that their important cities are no longer threatened, the Thalmor are still fighting them, Ulfric and his supporters are being religious idiots, and are failing to see that the WGC is just a front the Empire is putting out, just to keep the Thalmor happy so they can be caught unawares of the Empire's true views on the whole thing, which is, THEY want to go for a surprise attack like the Thalmor did to them, and push hard on the offensive, the Great War on the Empire side, was mainly to keep Cyrodiil out of Thalmor hands, which they succeeded, at heavy losses but they managed to control their land still, all of this stuff about "getting along" with the Thalmor is just political maneuvering, the Empire has no intention of being at peace with the Thalmor, and will attack at the opportune moment.. Tullius hints this, and so does the Dark Brotherhood questline.

[@toxichater69]

What Daedra?

[@yharnamiyhill787]

@@toxichater69 the Thalmor took on a covenant with Vermina to dominate Tamerial. Using her Orb, the Thalmor can see the dreams/intel of the Empire - that's how they were able to nearly win. It's rather blasphemous, since High Elves worship the Aedra.... the Thalmor was so power hungry, they sided with the Daedra.

[@sakunaritv3433]

​@@samuelhaverghast2442 Thalmor aren't stupid. They are very well aware that the peace is a farce and that the empire wants to prepare for war. That's why they are supporting the civil war and don't want it to stop. A surprise attack from either side is at this point impossible. Empire has shown in the great war that it only cares about Cyrodiil not Tamriel. They gave up Hammerfell and didn't continue the war which they were winning in order to protect Cyrodiil. This is why Ulfric rises up. Talos is just a symbol of it. It's not religious idiocy, that's just the rhetoric used to rally Nords behind his banner. If you read between the lines, the true reason why Ulfric rebels is that the Empire is exploiting Skyrim for the benefit of Cyrodiil. The unity argument is also questionable. Tamriel can unite in fight against elves without an overarching empire. I would go as far as to say that it might be even more united, because they would be more efficient in gathering troops individually than with a huge and cumbersome beauracratic aparatus the empire used.

[@Naoxys192]

LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!! GLORY FOR THE EMPIRE!!!

[@ArbiterPrime]

FOR MARTIN SEPTIM!

[@Geeksavant80x]

THE EMPEROR PROTECTS!!! whoops wrong universe 🫢

[@_Aengelika_]

There is a Mod- Dialogue overhaul, which adds deleted dialogues into the game. If you come around Windhelm for a while with Stenvar ( the follower ) he says this " If the Empire and The Stormcloaks want to kill eachother over some foolish cause I say let them. "

[@averagefanenjoyer8696]

I feel like the Stormcloaks may have been drafting people. If you loot the armor off of some dead female stormcloaks you can see some of them are grey haired old women. No military would allow people so old in it unless they are desperate as hell and drafting them.

[@akiraigarashi2874]

I really like those racist nords seething. Exterminating the stormcloaks was worth it

[@Bleuf0963]

I definitely think this will be somewhat of the cannon ending to the civil war. It reads a lot like that, I think.

[@carljohnson5917]

Would be funny to read a book in the next elder scrolls that ulfric really did sail to the summerset isles just to get instantly crushed. But I think the "canon" ending is the one were you negotiate territories in the main quest and didn't intervene in the civil war by picking a side , and after defeating alduin a new war breaks out which leads to the empire revoking the banishment of talos as a god giving most stormcloaks no reason to fight them anymore and rather join them in the war against the aldmeri dominion. Or the stormcloaks win , skyrim becomes independent but still helps the empire in the next war either unintentionally by being a distraction from the empire since the stormcloaks wanted to sail to the elves or because they didn't forget the attrocities the thalmor commited. I wonder what happens to the Dragonborn tho , maybe s/he becomes the next Talos and reuinites the empire. Sadly TES 6 is still many years away guess we will see , but i hope the elves didn't win.

[@matherbomb2926]

What be the point, if everything returns to status quo

[@svenrio8521]

@@carljohnson5917 The main character usually gets a motivation to be removed from the next game, so the Dragonborn will probably be in Akavir or something. Just like the Nerevar.

[@sneedfeedandseed2410]

@@svenrio8521 yeah the less we find out about the protags of previous games the better, the devs do this so our choices aren't rendered non-cannon.

[@AcelJean]

I kinda wish it's the other ending that's cannon... Just to prove a point to the idiots who sided with Ulfric just because they were almost executed. I hope the war with the high elves happens in TES6 too

[@juantony]

In all honesty, I don’t think the Imperials *really* do care if you worship Talos or not. It’s just the Thalmor they really can’t stand.

[@solarsunne4950]

There are several secret Talos worshippers within the Empire. The banning of Talos worship is temporary until they can defeat the Thalmor.

[@juantony]

@@solarsunne4950 Yep, that’s why I sided with the Empire, because they’re patient and smart, not like the Stormcloaks who are so stupid, selfish and blindly marching to their deaths. They’re playing the Thalmor’s games, you know.?

[@michaellawhun5941]

I'm late to this, but there's dialogue with Alvor and the Jarl of Markarth that actually explains that the Talos Worship Ban wasn't being enforced by the Empire until the Markarth Incident with Ulfric.

[@MrRawrCEO]

@@michaellawhun5941Yup, Ulfric made a bit too much noise and that's what got their attention in the first place.

[@asteropax6469]

I was up in the air on who to side with in the civil war until I decided to visit every town first. I spoke with everyone I could on the journey and decided to go Stormcloak. A flawed fight for freedom which may revitalize Human lands against the Dominion is better that a decaying Empire. Might as well speed up the decay so something better can arise. I was on my way to Ulfric to deliver the Jagged Crown to him when I figured I would sneak around the city and get some thieving loot. I came across where Sofie, the flower girl, slept. I got off and spent a whole day IRL thinking about it. I recalled Ulfic’s speech about fighting for his people and standing with those who lost loved ones. For all his talk; he wouldn’t take the half-frozen and homeless orphan of one of his men into his care. After adopting Sofie, I talked to the Imperials again. I gave them the crown and haven’t looked back.

[@luckyabdurrahman1085]

In the end, regardless whether he fought for skyrim or not, he's a hypocrite, he claim to fight for skyrim yet half his city lives in a slum, he hired dockworkers yet he disallowed them from entering his city, he claims to fight for freedom yet he covets power nevertheless, I have no love for the empire, they almost beheaded me after all, they care not whether I was innocent or not, and the worst crime of all, they instate maven black-briar as a jarl, the absolute worst decision, even as a thieves guild leader.

[@C104-k5m]

kinda naive of you to believe that an independent skyrim would lead to anything other than total thalmor controll of the continent AND a total human genocide

[@DonMadruga72]

Well, I don't exactly understand the point. In Solitude there is a boy who lost his Legionnaire parents in the war and literally lives in a stable doing slave labor for the owners. I'm not a Stormcloaks supporter, I think it's cool to take turns from gameplay to gameplay, but the Empire, with all its structure, should also do something with these children too, no?

[@luckyabdurrahman1085]

@@DonMadruga72 Yet he still has roof over his head, scorned as he maybe by his caretaker, it's not as depressing as a young girl living in the streets selling flowers just to eat, the war has been hard yes, but ulfric should get his priority straight, instead of being in his ivory tower preaching about freedom, he should take care of his run down city.

[@taurine5561]

@@DonMadruga72 yes but let's be honest, Sofie shouldn't survive even a single night out in windhelm. The boy is outside city walls and technically in the care of the stable owners. There is no excuse for what's happening to Sofie. Every person who walks past her knows that she will be dead in a few days. Yet ulfric doesn't give a flying fuck about the people he's apparently fighting to protect Seems to me he doesn't give a shit about his people

[@Rafe758]

They should have made him say, “the Stormcloaks are gone, but not their prejudice”. Would’ve made more sense, and added some dimensionality to an Imperial victory. The cultural divide and sentiments that lead to the civil war would still remain for a time. , if not indefinitely.

[@Rologias]

Imperial supporters in Skyrim : Only a united Empire can face the Thalmor. Meanwhile in Hammerfell: Laughs in ancient Yokundan.

[@zeche8477]

To be fair they had a lot of help from Imperial “deserters” but otherwise yes they upheld the ancient Yokudan tradition of killing elves.

[@kevinhenrique4256]

Tell that to the Imperial Legions,that "Deserted"

[@patyluna821]

Aren't they kinda falling appart?

[@timtaylor9298]

@@zeche8477 They also faced a much smaller force while their own province's resources were still mostly intact. The same can't be said for the Nords at this point.

[@demiserofd]

The Empire has skeletons in their dungeons and lets the Thalmor roam freely, executing anyone they believe to be a talos worshipper(see the massacred talos shrine near Helgen). That's why I think a free skyrim is best for the Empire. Tullius talks of rebuilding his strength, but how can he when the Thalmor is given free reign to wander and kill the best and brightest without any hindrance? Let skyrim be free, let them rebuild their strength without the interference of the Thalmor, and let them form alliances with their ancient allies like Free Hammerfell. They can distract the Thalmor while the Empire rebuilds its strength. The current empire is dying. Without a major change, it will keep doing that. They NEED a change in the wind to breathe new life into them.

[@sheogorath1374]

I attribute that mainly to the fact that the empire sees the value in taking prisoners and extracting information, while the stormcloaks are more simple minded. Look into the Markarth incident to convince yourself they're not more merciful or honorable whatsoever.

[@goatslayer3160]

Bingo. People seem to think the empire will magically rebuild their strength and betray their masters if they win. As if thalmor would let that happen. If the empire loses skyrim the only nations they have left are Cyrodil and Daggerfall, neither of them are a threat. And if the empire was too incompetent to win when they had Skyrim and Hammerfell, (a nation that beat the thalmor alone) then there's no chance they'd win now. If the empire wins the Thalmor will likely just send them off to fight Hammerfell, weakening them both, and then finally striking and gaining full control over Tamriel. And since tes6 seems to take place in Hammerfell, and most fans seem to think "stormcloaks bad because rakism" (even though the thalmor are far more rakist) that will probably be the Canon outcome, and we'll have to finally defeat the thalmor in tes6.

[@blakebridges8989]

Growing up is realizing that Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are Thalmor puppets and the Empire is the only ones who can realistically fight back against the Thalmor.

[@tylerkriesel8590]

The thalmor dossier says they don’t want the stormcloaks to win. But for nether sides to win and for it to go on as long as possible. Eventually, not playing the war quest and resolving it is what they’d want.

[@shadewolf0075]

@@tylerkriesel8590 the dossier only says that because they want the civil war to bog the empire down as long as possible. If there is gonna be a winner they would prefer the stormcloaks because it screws the empire over. But yeah the stormcloaks are still unwitting puppets of the thalmore doing exactly what they wanted

[@Lord_Numpty]

@@tylerkriesel8590 Perhaps not, but they'd have an easier time destroying the Empire, and eventually Skyrim, if Ulfric wins. 'United we stand, divided we fall' is a saying for a reason.

[@tylerkriesel8590]

@@shadewolf0075 all the thalmor get killed when the stormclocks win. Including their leader (I don’t remember her name) and the embassy is burning. Idk why they want that, or how’d that would make sense.

[@shadewolf0075]

@@tylerkriesel8590 because the empire is weakened for the next war between them and the dominion. The Dominion's goal is to conquer tamerial under the rule of the elves again. If they lose a few thalmore from the stormcloaks winning then they accept that knowing the empire is now split in two with high rock cut off from Cyrodil and the imperial army cut off from new nords to recruit. They prefer the war to go on forever

[@drachir7146]

My problem with the Civil War conquest is that General Tullius doesn't seem to mind Talos worship making the decision have no bite to it really as if hw were to really root out and slay Talos worshipers it'd make it more of a choice rather than the sort of non choice it is now

[@naufeel_abf]

well its because the empire never cared/serious about banning talos in the first place, its just some kind of formality to oblige their concordat, but then ulfric had to start bitching about it after that the thalmor started the anti worship raids the horse thief in the begining of the game said "damn you stormcloaks, skyrim was fine before you came along,empire was nice and lazy" implying the empire didnt much care about banning talos earlier

[@drachir7146]

@@naufeel_abf I know I just wish it had more of a give and take with the Civil War factions rather than the Empire just being better overall

[@YoungTroy23]

@@drachir7146 well if you look at the jarls there was some give and take. For example Maven Blackbriar, notorious organized crime figure, becomes Jarl of an entire hold. Side with the Stormcloaks and Thonar Silverblood becomes Jarl of Markarth. And he will most certainly give his corrupt brother, who is murder and slave driver who collaborated with tribes of Daedra worshipping psychotics in the hills, free reign to practice his corrupt business tactics by any means necessary. That’s just 2 consequences no matter who wins.

[@drachir7146]

@@YoungTroy23 yea I was just hoping the give and take was on the whole of the quest line

[@Vasilefs_Terranorum]

Why would imperials care to enforce the ban on the worship of the founder of their empire?

[@AdonanS]

Too bad the people still fighting for the Stormcloaks after Ulfric's death couldn't get his opinion from Sovngarde.

[@mdokuch96]

To be fair - they can. Just send them right after their leader.

[@treybrzezowski3259]

3:11 Oh now really Oengul you are not the best blacksmith in Skyrim, I AM.

[@angusking1593]

Just seeing Anuriel in exile, wasn't she working for Maven? So just thrown asside by Maven after?

[@Venneroth]

Would damage Maven's credibility if she admitted to running a mole in her predecessor's government. Anuriel had to be thrown under the bus. Don't waste too much pity on a rat.

[@angusking1593]

@@Venneroth Most of my playthroughs I join the Stormcloaks anyway. Another thing that happens, if you let the Empire take Riften in Season Unending Anuriel gets her job as steward back when you retake.

[@spookytimejunction]

what i find absolutely devastating about all of this is that ulfric genuinely thought he was fighting for the greater good, pushing against the thalmor when in reality he was nothing more than a pawn. The only reason the civil lasted as long as it did was because the thalmor constanty interfered, silently helping ulfric get the leg up so his cause could drain the legion as much as possible. his cause wasn't the most just as it put religious beliefs above the wellbeing of anybody that wasn't a nord in skyrim, but it pains me to know ulfric really thought he was fighting a higher power, when in fact he was doing exactly what they wanted.

[@LanMandragon1720]

So did the failed Austrian painter,as it turns out believing that your doing good is totally irrelevant. To whether or not you are actually doing good,results matter way more then intentions.

[@ssilent8202]

Rather stand up for what I believe in now, than live on my knees in hopes that someone else will be able to or even can stand up later down the line.

[@shadewolf0075]

@@ssilent8202 well it's one reason I plunged a blade into every stormcloak I find for the injustices and prejudices they actively practice in their territory

[@ssilent8202]

@@shadewolf0075 you are attempting to combat extremes with extremes. Murdering potentially innocent individuals, be they soldier or simple sympathizers, for something that specific individual may or may not have done. You are generalizing all of them and assuming alll of them have done something heinous and you are taking it upon yourself to preform vigilante murder. You might find that the majority of the stormcloaks consider anyone of any race a “true nord” if they live in Skyrim and are willing to fight for it.

[@shadewolf0075]

@@ssilent8202 who said I was killing people who sympathize with the rebels? I said I kill every stormcloak soldier I find for the facts that they actively oppress anyone who isn't a nord and that they are the true puppts of the thalmore. The idiots who support them but dont draw their blades at me are left alone as I have bigger fish to fry than fools who think skyrim can go it alone against an enemy will to unleash literally hell ( something the thalmore tried to do on the imperial city during the war) upon them

[@SuperDragonBlader]

5:13 False. Tiber Septim brought the Empire back to life. The Empire existed long before he was born, albeit until in the five hundred and second year of the 2nd era, a powerful necromancer who betrayed the emperor Varen Aquilarious, helped Molag Bal set foot in Tamriel, so to speak, and plunged the empire into darkness, bringing about the coming of the 3 Banners War, for years until someone put a stop to it and truly claimed the Ruby Throne.

[@ThatRatBastard]

Homie really fact checked a fictional character on his lore knowledge

[@mjrtaurus2714]

Elda Early-Dawn: Talos, Skyrim's most beloved son! Kyne and Shor: Are we a joke to you?

[@mark5222]

They're the parents.

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

Kyne cannot be a son.

[@levijackson767]

I believe, as I'm unsure if it's cannon that Talos is a Shezzrine (aka an incarnation of Shor/Lorkhan)

[@user-ob4kn3rp3j]

I never sided with the Imperials. Always felt wrong.

[@coaiemandushman1079]

Dark elf: Ulfric hated us dark elves for no reason! Also Dark elf: Stfu N'wah, you have no say in our country.

[@enexe6229]

those dark elves who live in windhelm don't say such things

[@GarkKahn]

@@enexe6229 Maybe because it's a different era, or because now they understand how does it feel

[@enexe6229]

@@GarkKahn not all of them were like that even in the third era

[@coaiemandushman1079]

@@GarkKahn Now that they are the victims, they dislike it

[@EnhanceRaptor]

It's hard for me to pick a side in the war because I like most of the original Jarls more than their replacements :/ Elisif's the only one I really want to get rid of and, without mods, she's essential. I'm playing the PSVR version, which means no mods.

[@dibi8600]

You can actually eliminate her in boethea's quest

[@fabriziodefrancesco7083]

@@dibi8600yeah Boetiah's Bidding but it's a cut quest...which should have become a 'sequel' of the daedric B.'s Calling

[@cdcdrr]

I would say the Stormcloak's original jarls just kind of suck. Skald's a grouch, and there's not much to him. Winterhold's jarl is bitter towards the College despite being the only thing making his hold stay relevant. Laila Lawgiver is just plain ignorant of how much of a tool she is. Three out of four replacements turn out to be better than their Stormcloak counterparts. Dengeir is the only Stormcloak jarl I actually prefer over his Imperial counterpart. And he's not an unquestioning lackey of Ulfric. It's just a shame he threw in with the rebellion and caused his own downfall.

[@usmanya5110]

@@cdcdrr i can't stand skald. You see how he is with his servant and how oblivious he is Like dragons are around because of Talos or focusing most of his soldiers to help the stormcloaks then defend his city. Even some of his people hated him. and of course of how he wants to kill two retired imperials. were they retired? I somewhat agree with the other two and about Dengeir too. I don't know who's worse Thongvor or Maven. There's always gonna be that corrupt family ruling in at least one side I think Vignar is decent. Even if i liked balgruuf more And idk why they picked sorli the builder as the Jarl. Could've been Idgrod's cut sister instead.

[@cdcdrr]

@@usmanya5110 With the Silverbloods, you can at least kill one brother, and likely weaken them by helping the Forsworn escape. And the jarl of Markarth wasn't keen on them to begin with, so under imperial rule, they'll still be powerless. Unfortunately, even if the Stormcloaks remain in charge of Riften, Maven is still jarl in all but name. Her gaining control under the empire, if anything, makes her weaker now that she increased her public profile while still running a criminal enterprise.

[@JustAnotherAccount8]

Stormcloaks are honestly the worst choice for tamriel AND skyrim. A free skyrim is something that i would support, but that's a scenario with no future. Side with the Imperials, win the war against the Thalmor, and THEN negotiate independence (or civil war if needed)

[@NezomShark]

A man with wise mind. I salute you bro

[@Shadow_Wolf_190]

I see your point but the problem is all empires will inevitably fall

[@karolbienkowski616]

Why not become independent and then side with Empire against Thalmor? Why wouldnt the Empire Just grant independence to Skyrim and part in friendly relations?

[@Dokkaebi707]

@@karolbienkowski616 Easier on logistics, organizing manpower, equipment, etc. If they were both separate nations working together it'd be more difficult to cooperate and coordinate in battle than if it were just the empire, and it would take alot more time and preparation that they don't really have against the Thalmor, since they would both fight with very different fighting doctrines and military tactics.

[@LanMandragon1720]

@@karolbienkowski616 Because human nature exists and it turns out that allying with the people you just fought a bloody civil war against. Is an extremely hard sell politically,it could happen but it's very unlikely.

[@cesarquijano94]

I think it would be cool if the Dragonborn could choose to destroy both sides or actually be a neutral party like Season Unending implied

[@generaltobias3777]

Staying neutral would cause the civil war to go on longer, and that benefits nobody but the Thalmor. And destroying both sides? That's exactly what the Thalmor wants. It would solve nothing, chaos and anarchy would likely rule Skyrim not long after all form of authority has been destroyed. Sure, maybe some of the cities and their Jarls would be able to rule as city states, like Solitude or Whiterun. But smaller towns like Winterhold and Morthal won't last long without the Empire and or Stormcloaks.

[@generaltobias3777]

Then again, killing everyone is absolutely based.

[@septimus7524]

@@generaltobias3777 Kill em all and let Akatosh sort em out.

[@delta2372]

@@generaltobias3777 would have been better to settle the civil war peacefully, either have ulfric talk to talius and have talius explain the empires true plan to use the peace (that everyone knows is temporary) to build the empires strength and have skyrim remain in the empire or leave but when the time for the next war with the dominion comes skyrim will aid the empire.

[@generaltobias3777]

@@delta2372 Of course any peaceful way of ending the civil war is best, unfortunately the Emperor would never allow for peace talks, and I'm 95% sure Ulfric wouldn't listen to them even if they did try to make peace with the Stormcloaks.

[@General_MacArthur]

That talos worshipper in white run isn't so happy

[@TnD_BigJax]

These people talk as if the Dragonborn can't simply walk onto Summerset Isle and wipe out the elves with the mere parting of their lips

[@Blackferret66]

Thalmor: "You can't kill all of us, Dragonborn!" Dragonborn: "No? How's your racial Shock Resistance?" (Full power Storm Call) (turns invisible) (Waits for Thalmor army to die)

[@yep1486]

@@Blackferret66 yes, by having the common high elves die the government will weaken temporarily and then the empire can strike them while the warriors and mages hunger

[@TheCat_3]

I would be a heavy stormcloak supporter if it wasn't for the racism

[@NautyCat]

Why is that so?

[@tbu_drachenkater5397]

And there is another point. Because Ulfric is doing exactly what the thalmor want: weaken the empire. Its even proven, that the thalmor are even supporting the stormcloaks.

[@TheCat_3]

@@tbu_drachenkater5397 they are supporting the war, they don't want any side to win, it would result in depleting less empire resources either way

[@TheCat_3]

@@NautyCat I think you should be allowed to worship whoever you want for the most part and I think a united Skyrim is the best way to fight the Thalmor. Their history of elf killing will probably end up doing more then having a Empire rule over a hostile population, I'm assuming though that the Empire and stormcloaks would fight side by side when the time comes

[@TheCat_3]

Of course though when the empire takes the fight to the Thalmor the nords would be happy to lend a hand but under empire rule I think they'll be much weaker, the empire's people/time is better spent preparing then trying to win over Skyrim's people, I think Stormcloak victory is better for Skyrim and the Empire

[@dartfurni8617]

i always sided with the empire as Hadvar said after escaping Helgan: "unless the empire stands together the Thalmor will destroy us all." there's time to fight for Skyrim's freedom but during a time when the empire is under threat of another army isn't the best time for that

[@ssilent8202]

There might not be another chance to fight for skyrims freedom

[@mdokuch96]

@@ssilent8202 what freedom? Freedom to be picked one by one and die?

[@shadewolf0075]

@@mdokuch96 yeah I don't get these stormcloak fans that fail to see the obvious threat to both skyrim and Cyrodil from the high elves that want to conquer them both and a free skyrim is gonna fail hard at stopping the thalmore

[@aloneinthedark99]

Dunmer complaining about bigotry is fucking hilarious

[@dutchpatriot17]

Don't be racist.

[@aloneinthedark99]

@@dutchpatriot17 you serious?

[@dutchpatriot17]

@@aloneinthedark99 Yeah... Absolutely... Unless you believe that all Dunmer are a fucking hivemind, lmfao.

[@aloneinthedark99]

@Dutch Patriot not gonna bother discussing lore with you because of your foul demeanor over racial politics in a fantasy series. Maybe go touch grass.

[@dutchpatriot17]

@@aloneinthedark99 Not my fault if you're unable to realize that what you say is literally racist.

[@philsoro491]

Fun fact, the voice actor for Mercer Frey does the voice acting for clavicus vile (my favourite daedra)🤭

[@sneedfeedandseed2410]

he does voice acting for a lot of characters.

[@Don113]

See, I always felt that the Empire would have won eventually anyway without the Dragonborn's interference. General Tullius was just so much better than Ulfric as a tactician and soldier. Dude wasn't in Skyrim for long before he captured Ulfric himself. Even managed to outmaneuver the Thalmor by having Ulfric executed before he could escape again. Just bad luck that Alduin showed up when he did.

[@firenze6478]

Tullius is objectively a better commander, but he doesn’t give a rat’s ass about skyrim’s culture. Ulfric is just a soldier who felt betrayed and so fought for his people. Its better leader vs better values as tullius is just following orders

[@N0Tsoftware]

Just do empathy. If your country occupied and send your childeren to the war and taxing you and banning your religion would you still fight for them just because they have bigger enemy? Or would you like independence? For Americans Ulfric is like George Washington.

[@dutchpatriot17]

Ulfric's absolutely nothing like George Washington.

[@MiSt3300]

When I was young and got this game in its vanilla state I didn't know much about the lore, and decided to join the stormcloacks because I didn't like some Empire dictating things to the locals. But now that I know what the stormcloacks represent, I definitely always support the empire, and even play as an imperial as opposed to being a Nord.

[@whoevencaresbra-5990]

Race doesn’t matter 😂 it’s not like nords have to be rebel scum

[@SimoPortti]

Dude no way. I did the exact opposite! When this game came out 2011 I made a thalmor dragonborn and sided with empire cause I thought they'd be more unified. Nowadays I either negotiate a truce or join as Stormcloaks as I felt they needed heroes to stand with them to join the right way

[@MiSt3300]

@Cris Dav lol good political descision haha

[@norbaklobo8559]

Did the same, I hate racist people, I can't help anyone who keep argonians or dunmers out of the cities.

[@XenoZbornak]

Good teaching lesson: rebellion isn't always the answer.

[@RJLiams]

For RP purposes I chose the empire because I was an orc married to an argonian. Couldn't support the bigotry of the storm cloaks. Even if I can empathize with their desires for independence.

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

Quite a few orcs in Markarth work for the Silver-Bloods.

[@filipvadas7602]

For all the faults the actual Civil War questline has, the actual lore and worldbuilding isn't one of them. When I initially started playing the game I was unsure which side to pick. But as I learned and actually put different pieces of dialogue , journal entries and backstory together it becomes obvious that the Empire is ultimately the better side to join Sure, they're basically all but subservient to the Aldmeri Dominion and their reforms. But they understand that the Thalmor are not as powerfull as they would like for everyone to believe. They won the Great War by the skin of their teeth and are using the White Gold Concordat to slowly sap the Empire of its strength, while they begin recovering it. That's all the Stormcloak Rebellion and by extension Ulfric is really. A distraction to keep the Empire weak and submissive until its too late. Hell, even the way Tullius talks implies that he believes another *MUCH* bigger war might be around the corner and how he knows that the Thalmor are involved with prolonging the rebellion. And if you kill Ulfric before you go to Sovngarde he'll even lament on how he was a pridefull fool who didn't see the bigger picture. Both with Alduin and the Civil War.

[@kevinhenrique4256]

There is also the Fact,That the Empire Main Species is Humanity,the Elves Cannot out Breed Humanity,as along as The Empire has time they will Crush the Elves

[@davenaoh5545]

If you talk to tulius during season unending, he straight up says that empire is preparing for war with the Thalmor and the civil war is a distraction

[@Rurkgh]

The dragonborn is the rightful emperor, hell no am i gonna weaken that birthright by being a stormcloak.

[@dindeleganpatrick4379]

3:47 someone should tell her 😅😂

[@tenebrisvega]

it's kind of funny how some Nords worship Talos and are racist, because Talos himself was an multi-cultural man, every part of Tamriel that he conquered he never suppressed their believes or mistreated them, and here we have Ulfric and he's supporters shitting on other races, I did countless playthroughs on Skyrim and of all those I can count the amount of times I supported the Stormcloak rebellion. There's no wrong side here everyone is the hero on their own story, the question is: can you overlook the bad things the side you chose to support has?

[@lovelymadness92]

We need a downloadable update to the game where the thalmor start trying to take over and you have the option to join or destroy them, no matter who wins the war between the stormcloaks and imperials. There were things i agreed and disagreed with on both sides.

[@DarkWarchieff]

Death to Talos worship: the TRUE 9th divine is DAGOTH UR!

[@treetervallhalla4128]

Arrow to the knee

[@delta_201]

what about Jarl Korir and his family? they're exiled on Brunwulf's house

[@purpledevilr7463]

You’ve heard about an arrow to the knee, now get ready for a sword to the chest.

[@AnonyMous-dc6ly]

Im a storm cloak just because I feel like it’s completely justified to be racist in TES lore tbh. Everyone forgets that this isn’t our world.

[@goatslayer3160]

As someone who played Morrowind for the first time recently, it's hilarious hearing the dark elves in Windhelm whine about rakism. When just 200 years ago many of the ones whining could have owned argonians, or said they would drive the imperial N'wahs out of Morrowind. 😂

[@SrChr778]

Poor Hermir, such a naive girl... if only she knew the truth. Same goes for every Stormcloak supporter. None of them know of Ulfric's war crimes back during his assault on Markarth. But that's why it was covered up. If such a thing were public knowledge, Ulfric wouldn't even be a "hero" to begin with. Yet, that was the duplicity of Ulfric's ambition. Patriotic propaganda, while using that to cover up his already bloodstained hands. No matter what the Nords think, Ulfric was no hero. Just another warlord who wanted to be king. That's all.

[@captainducktape3058]

Are you referring to the bear of markarth book? Cause that book is mostly just forsworn bias. I just hate him because he's racist and the people who mindlessly support him not even acknowledging throughout the whole war that they're the bad guys half the time, since they started it to begin with and attacked whiterun (a neutral hold that allowed talos worship) unprovoked

[@jacobsaccount9353]

I always play as a beast race or an elf race so I can never support him

[@firenze6478]

Non nords, eff your culture and your heritage! This is our land now. Stormcloaks: skyrim is for the nords. Non nords: being patriotic and wanting to be ruled by people of your own culture? Racist!

[@bronsonbrown9785]

After playing through skyrim once while siding with the empire, I've come to the realization that stormcloak was the real choice in the end. A little bit of history for me, I was a big fan of Oblivion at the time it came out. The imperial legion was the greatest army in all of Tamriel. Then the Oblivion crisis happened, and they risked life and limb to deal with the daedra invasion. Fast forward 175 years later. The third Aldmeri Dominion took over the empire, and banned talos worship. Even going so far as to saying they were responsible for saving us from the oblivion crisis. Let's face it, 200 years later in Skyrim, the empire I knew and loved died when they surrendered to the Thalmor. The real imperial legion I remembered would've fought to the end like real warriors, never give up and never surrender. They're now a shadow of their former selves in Skyrim. After seeing what the Thalmor are capable of, I would never work with or for them. You don't ban me from worshipping my favorite divine, Talos, and you certainly don't lie about taking credit for all the work I went through in the prequel game.

[@giftworldmusic4057]

That is why the Emperor must died in Dark Brotherhood quest. Even in reddit there's a theory that Titus Made II make a black sacrament to himself. When the Emperor died, the new one will take over with new strength of character, knowing his former Emperor is assasinate, the Penitus Oculatus will be reformed as the emperor protector knowing they are not as strong as the former protector; The Blade. I read the thalmor journal about Delphine, and the Blades is so strong. And if you also read the Thalmor journal about Ulfric, the thalmor is using Ulfric as an asset. They use the Stromcloak to waste the Imperial resources, but they also didn't easy to allow Ulfric to win. As a citizen of Skyrim, it makes sense how your perspective. But, we role as Dragonborn, we have the same power as The Tiber Septim itself. And deep inside we know Skyrim can't win against Thalmor with only Brute Forces. And we knew that the Thalmor is rarely use Frost Magic.

[@firenze6478]

Also Tullius is a great commander but he is awful in skyrim because he knows nothing about nord culture, doesn’t seek to know it, and can only really carry out orders. He’s a soldier not a diplomat. Ulfric isn’t a politician, just an angry nord, and rightfully so. That said, he understands why the nords are fighting and seeks what is best for skyrim, not cyrodil

[@yep1486]

the empire has fallen with it's dragonborns, ruby stone, dragonfire and one-so-great-blades gone but also back then fighting was the only choice they had alongside being guided by gods to have hope, that's something they can't help lacking when there's a better option to protect the empire still, those Tullious fight to do what they can and strive to one day be able to defeat the thalmor as a whole with what they have

[@estradadavilafernandojavie8684]

In my opinion, the actions of the empire can be perfectly described with the following phrase: "he who fights and flees, lives to fight another day" what use was it for the empire to continue fighting a war already lost?

[@wartimeroxy6163]

Oops this is a stormcloak friendly reply

[@luckyabdurrahman1085]

Jarl Laila is the only reasonable stormcloak aligned jarl, Skald and Korir are all delusional, Ulfric is power hungry, perhaps what he fight for is a noble cause, yet he himself is far from noble, I hold no love for the Empire who gave me no fair trial and whom are happy to chop my head off, yet one can see the virtue of joining them, regardless of past… problems, Jarl Idgrod, Jarl Balgruuf, and Jarl Igmund are all reasonable folk, and although markarth has a lot of problem at least the Jarl is somewhat fair, if a bit powerless, Siddgeir is far too happy to kneel to those with power, his uncle Dengeir would've made a better ruler; had he not been aligned with the stormcloaks, Elisif is a puppet, yet her hold fares better than any of the stormcloaks', tis' a shame though, if you side with the empire Maven Black-Briar reigns, as if her corruption isn't enough, alas, The Empire must unite to survive against the dominion, lest the merethic shall be repeated.

[@cookieraider2182]

Weird how Skyrim is one of the few instances where people will support imperialism over national sovereignty.

[@burnttoast26]

TES Empire isn't the evil empire that's common in fiction. It's honestly more like the EU than an actual empire. Plus, there's a LOT of lore reasons to support the Empire over Stormcloaks. Empire is also actively working against the Thalmor under the table, and being uncooperative in the open; Stormcloaks are basically Thalmor puppets. Thalmor want to unmake reality, and only a unified Empire can resist.

[@bufferly5595]

All empires are evil by virtue of depriving its citizens of self determination through force.

[@burnttoast26]

@@bufferly5595 I don't think you actually read what I said

[@redxhand]

Negotiate independence AFTER CRUSHING the Thalmor. There. We could support national sovereignty. Try seperate then you fulfill The Thalmors's Divide and Conquer.

[@DreamersOfReality]

The Empire is an evil empire. You just never played the first 3 Elder Scrolls games. Hell, in Redguard, a legionnaire blames the Khajiit, for "forcing" him and his men to commit genocide in Rimmen. He has no regret whatsoever for slaughtering women and children on purpose. If the Empire were good, they wouldn't have done anything to stop Skyrim's succession. They would have forged a military pact with them, instead of waging a pointless war.

[@jackmack4181]

As much as the empire has their problems, I still go with them mainly because I hate how racist the stormcloaks are.

[@terrorbilly3367]

honestly i like brunwulf as jarl more than ulfric

[@Juicedbelmont]

So do the dunmer and Argonians

[@DreamersOfReality]

And yet the Argonians still can't come into the city. For "their own protection". Brunwulf's as racist as the rest, just in another way.

[@terrorbilly3367]

@@DreamersOfReality maybe so but agonians in elder scrolls never get any respect, dunmer view them as slaves, hekc even hist trees view them as slaves , i myself don't wiev them nicely even tho their racial powers are indead fun etc i never bothered playing as some lizard

[@Fire_of756]

When you join the Stormcloaks: *"I hear you're a racist now, Dragonborn."*

[@uplift81]

100%😂😂😂

[@TheOneAndOnlyMal]

"I used to be a racist like you. Then I took an arrow in the knee."

[@Thoregor]

So the Argonians will still stay on the docks of Windhelm, there are no plans for improving the living spaces of the Dunmer (yes, if you want to be politically correct you should call them that instead of "Dark Elves") and there is gonna be a high increase in taxes to fill the treasury of Windhelm. People say nothing changed in Riften, when its actually the city that will change the most. Maven is a politician now and she either has to be more careful or to ditch the whole "godmother" aspect of her life, she will most likely take action against the Thieves Guild too so she can be in a positive light and blame the whole criminal activity in Riften on Laila. Dawnstar is almost so irrelevant I dont even know who the new jarl is, but tbh Skald really was a bad jarl even by Stormcloak standards. For Winterhold I have mixed feelings, I view the resentment and fear of the College to be somewhat justified, and I like that the initial jarl wishes to bring back the city on the map, idk if there's a new jarl but I feel like if there's one, they will just let the city die for good, which is bad for the College because the inn is useful for them. If the city dies, the College will be next soon, and from what I know the Imperial magic syndicate (i dont remember the name perfectly) is at odds with the College of Winterhold, so they might actually seek that. All in all, the victory of the imperials more or less is just like any other colonial victory irl: the new governments will tax the population more and enforce their power harder. There are no real changes about the racism that people complain about when you mention the Stormcloaks, only "hope" of change, and if you have a milligram of political knowledge, you should know that hoping for things to change is stupid in the political context of Skyrim.

[@dutchpatriot17]

You Stormcloaks really are starting to get desperate enough that you start making baseless statement. Taxes will increase far more under Ulfric's rule than under the Empire.

[@enexe6229]

@@dutchpatriot17 yeah a lot of people in the reach start complaining about increased taxes when thongvor becomes the jarl. if you also listen to him talking to reburruss you will see that thongvor sucks at his job.

[@Thoregor]

@@enexe6229 the Reach aint really the best zone of Skyrim. Imo it should be given to the natives, even in the case of a Stormcloak victory. It would be beneficial to Ulfric, although at the expense of losing the silver. The Reach is just too much trouble, better leave it as a wild land because nobody will trade with the natives anyway. Later when other nations will want to pass through that zone and encounter problems with the natives, the Nords can step in and say "See why we took over them? We can still do that if you want safe passage, but it will also cost this time".

[@LanMandragon1720]

Realistically Mavin already ran Riften in all but name. Game play makes irrelevant clear that she puppeted the government of Riften. Before you even got caught crossing the border into Skyrim.

[@doidoi8544]

Imo either victory is good and bad. With the Stormcloak victory, yes, the Nords are free to worship Talos without fear of persecution, imprisonment, and death. But, this means that the Thalmor and Empire have more of a reason to invade Skyrim again and another war starts, Ulfric also cares more about Nords than any other race. With an Empire victory, the war is over so the Empire can continue to plot against the Thalmor, restoring the Empire to glory as it was what they were originally planning, but this means that Skyrim becomes Nazi Germany, with people bring jailed and executed because of who they worship.

[@cipher5761]

I side with the imperials but at the same time i really want to end the black briar line

[@matherbomb2926]

Racial persecution Vs religious persecution

[@austinmonreal2331]

This is the reason an Imperial defeat in the long run is frankly inevitable. The empire no longer rules with the support of the people and it’s massive bureaucratic bulk will be it’s own downfall. It’s in stark contrast to the storm cloak victory where the citizens of Solitude for the most part shrug their shoulders and don’t care. The nord supporters of the Stormcloaks? They are extremely bitter. An imperial victory today just means another rebellion in a decade’s time.

[@arcticwulf5796]

There are actual real life examples of successful policies and healing from absolutely brutal civil wars. Example the Finnish Civil War When the nation then was united and fought of the soviet Union only few decades later fully united. It required amnesty, forgiveness, reintegration and political reforms. Same with skyrim, it can become a part of the empire, even THE SPEAR of the empire against the thalmor that would destroy them all. If humanity wants to continue to survive its fate is directly tied to the empire. If the empire falls, skyrim will also fall and its people look like the forsworn compared to the resources of thalmor controlled contintinent.

[@Rimuru_Tempest_-]

I don't like the empire, and I'm not a fan of Ulfric. I despise Maven, so just another reason not to side with the imperials, but I like Balgruuf, so that's a reason not to side with the stormcloaks. I don't like the imperial armor, don't want more people wearing it, but don't like racism. Man, just send me to attack the Thalmor. I'll take care of it. ;-;

[@firenze6478]

I like vignar and balgruuf, but each has faults. Tullius is a great general but he doesn’t understand nor care about nord culture while ulfric cares deeply for his homeland but is stubborn and too angry to think straight Stormcloak victory is best for skyrim as it’s really hard to invade but imperial victory is best for cyrodil and maybe the world.(if they ever decide to act.) All in all if I had to pick personally, I would go stormcloak simply because I would be furious if someone turned my country into a vassal state for a country of nazis and banned my beliefs and kidnapped and tortured them while the empire helps them occupy for fear of retaliation

[@Aurorakitzune]

at first I thought the stormcloaks were the good guys...guess I was just delusional

[@ZeldagigafanMatthew]

The Empire has just enough resources in Skryim to keep the conflict a stalemate... If they devoted their entire force, the conflict would be over long before that carriage ride in the opening.

[@Aurorakitzune]

@@ZeldagigafanMatthew you do have a point but still, I'm gonna be an imperial because the one who started the war was Ulfric who killed the high king for power stating he was "The true high king"

[@Angus_n_stuff]

Not all rebels are good

[@Aurorakitzune]

@@Angus_n_stuff Yeah but the stormcloaks are just power hungry

[@LanMandragon1720]

@@Aurorakitzune Most rebels are power-hungry,this is why throughout history. Most revolutions turn into a bloodbath of infighting the second they win. Hell sometimes they break down into infighting before they've even won.

[@alulim1338]

Have to say, I genuinely hate a lot of the diehard stormcloak supporters in the game. Their words sound way too much like a lot of willfully ignorant real-life people.

[@walterthemighty7549]

4:56 Let me tell you about my this guy I know in Whiterun

[@iSeeCorpses]

Oh pls no-

[@mark5222]

@@iSeeCorpses Let me shooooooow youuu the pooower of Talos Stoooormcrown!!!

[@GunslingerLv]

Would argonians even care? Don't feel cold , have a job and they love water

[@megamanpwn3dmario]

its funny to me that the nords really seem to care about their homeland, and how with ulfric gone they're just worried about losing their way of life. but all non-nords just call him a racist and don't really care for nordic culture. in a way, they're proving ulfric right.

[@dutchpatriot17]

Ulfric shits on more Nord custom than he honors, lol.

[@AdamMedeiros-vu1xn]

I hate to side with the Empire, but strategically its just better, bcs Skyrim gathering forces with the empire means the humans can strike mer harder and actually win (since humans are superior to mer, physically).