SMASH: The Post-Ultimate Problem

[@JebZone]

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[@maude7420]

🗿

[@slagarcrue85]

Well I agree with you mr minority.

[@waltysalty4313]

Blink twice if you don't actually give a sh!t about NordVPN

[@SoulfulZane]

Well put. Those pesky 'criminals' making their totally inconsequential smash bros hacks can indeed be quite a threat since they act out of love for the series and not money, they aren't bound by the need to monetize as much as possible, either by killing off their current entry to make a new monetized one, or some other thing... they can just keep going and going, like your option 1 on Ultimate. I understand them feeling threatened and wanting to shut it down, but they should instead compete to make their hack look obsolete

[@WanupDeShroom]

Blue jeb

[@crasyman101]

The vision of the pmdt and sakurai are not the same. Sakurai won't make pm look obsolete because he was never trying to do what the pmdt we're trying to do.

[@juhadexcelsior]

PMEX makes smash ultimate look miniature in it's vastness of content. While some character choices are slightly odd (sub zero, sans) the level of passion, polish and balancing is absolutely unreal and proves that Smash's essence and spirit isn't hard to capture at all for anyone that cares. SSF2 and SSBC are also very good examples of essence retention.

[@crasyman101]

@@juhadexcelsior this isn't specifically for you but to further expound on my other reply: Pmex is not made by pmdt and because of that that mod is a lot different from pm or ultimate for that matter. Pmex doesn't have any balance. None of the characters or stages in there were made for that mod, rather they were plucked from a pool of already existing mods made by other people. Pmex goal was to stuff as much things as possible into one mod not caring to much about balance or tournament viability. It was just about how far they could push a brawl mod while using pm as a baseline. The pmdt vision was to make brawl fast and competitive like melee. Which is why nothing from pmex was ever implemented into p+. Along with a lot of things introduced in ultimate. None of that stuff fits pms vision. Sakurai doesn't care about competitive side of things nearly as much as the pmdt does. He's more focused on creating a game with little to no barriers and as much fan service (not that kind) as possible. Which is why he would never make a game like Pm or pmex. No mod has yet to create a game like sakurai does, they all have their own vision for what smash is and or should be and it never aligns with sakurais.

[@PeruvianPotato]

@@juhadexcelsior Meh, SSBC reeks of oversaturation and quantity with it's roster without the quality that makes other fangames better.

[@afish2281]

I do understand Sakurai's worry. Sometimes you can't find a person with the same drive, dedication and skill all in one. But he has the whole world to find any successor.

[@megaham1552]

Sakurai is overrated

[@r.henryjr.1533]

@@megaham1552 I too like contrarianism but I think he's perfectly rated as he is.

[@gechotaris]

and that successor is me

[@novasZK]

@@megaham1552 who are u lil bro

[@Lightning-2153]

Yeah, the whole "It doesn't matter who gets in" is complete bogus. I simply would not have gotten into Smash if it wasn't for Sonic being in Brawl. Real talk: I would absolutely love to see a Smash Bros spin-off game where it wasn't a fighting game at all, but a full-fledged adventure game where you can play as all the core characters like Mario, Link, DK, Samus, Fox, and Pikachu, and you go to all of their different worlds, kinda like Kingdom Hearts! If topping Ultimate is truly impossible (which I kinda doubt), I say don't try to top it; do something different.

[@NewSkater3000]

Saw your SA3 vid and loved it I really want a Smash story mode again. Where we hear characters talk to each other. Good guys team up and bad guys team up, against a foe or SOMETHING. A couple cool series that does that here on KZbin is Smash and Stuff by The Panda Brothers. Easily one of the most interesting stories I’ve seen

[@Lightning-2153]

@XxROTSA2xX Hey! Thanks for watching!

[@Lightning-2153]

@@NewSkater3000 Hey! Thanks for watching!

[@nightmare3642]

@XxROTSA2xX Most of that just sounds like making the Mario spin-offs except that it has other Nintendo stuff than just Mario. (Just to be clear, I'm not referring to the kart one, you actually proposed an idea to make it more than just Mario Kart but Smash Bros.)

[@windindi2834]

@Lightning2153 You should totally make a video for that concept!

[@Queen_Serafina]

I've always appreciated hard critique on Smash Ultimate's very existence and the things that it did. I got my boy Banjo after all those years of waiting of course so I don't mind as much anymore, but for people to say that "it doesn't matter who gets in" are absolutely full of it. We all tuned in on directs to see who got in the DLC and even base game, it ABSOLUTELY matters. I knew several people that quite literally said "I will buy a switch if Doom Guy gets in smash". There's still a lot to be desired though for me, as World of Light was not as well thought out and it was a damn shame we couldn't see more of those gorgeous cutscenes in a full fledged story like Subspace Emissary.

[@Dairunt1]

I know some people my age that wasn't thrilled for Steve, but their kids do and they wanted a Switch just to play Smash. Heck, as a GameCube owner and Nintendo fan, I got Soul Calibur II just because Link was in it. Guest characters and brand recognition are no joke, that's why there's apparently no successful fighter without guests.

[@stevediament1448]

I bought Smash Ultimate when Pyra and Mythra was announced

[@zeroattentiongaming820]

@@Dairunt1 Fighterz is extremely succesful and it doesn't have any guest characters, nor does Persona 4 Arena Ultimax, or any of the Guilty Gear games just to name a few. Seems it's just Arcsys that isn't going for the guest appeal these days though, not to say they haven't in the past.

[@justinc.5591]

Yeah they wouldn’t have these bombastic trailers if no one cared who got in. We all care who gets in, at least a little bit.

[@danialtarki572]

Continue with Helluva Boss reviews.

[@chancelogan1319]

I think a big part of the problem with not having Sakurai involved for a new game that people are overlooking is that it’s been said before by other developers that they’re not sure if they would trust their IP to someone other than Sakurai. He has a trust and influence in the industry that can’t easily be replaced. So if someone else were to handle smash, a lot of crossovers might not be able to happen.

[@NuiYabuko]

Very good point. Nintendo does the negociations, but ultimately it's Sakurai and his team who work on the characters. SE didn't approve of Cloud on PSAS, but were fine with both him and Sephiroth for Smash.

[@WhatIsMyPorpoise]

This. Exactly this.

[@WhatIsMyPorpoise]

And that was likely a combination of Sakurai having done good work on Cloud in smash 4 and thus creating trust, as well as the timing working well for sephiroth, due to the FFVII remake being a thing.

[@skibot9974]

For example Snake only happened because Sakurai and Kojima were close friends

[@AeroFlash15]

Precisely, and this was one of the biggest failings for games like Playstation all stars. Sakurai has obtained seniority and built trust within the industry to break boundaries ever since Brawl. We would not have gotten these achievements from one entry alone. As prolific as a brand playstation/sony is, some companies will not be willing to play ball with their IPs without trust that the project they're collaborating on will make a profit - for the product as a whole, let alone themselves.

[@curesaul5749]

Yeah I almost agree with everything you said in this video. I don't like how Smash leaned so far into the hype gaming culture. It prioritized the reveal trailers and big third party characters above all else. It wouldn't be a problem if the all else felt so underwhelming. I wanted cool Nintendo characters, but I also wanted cool stages, items, and modes. Which the ladder was very lacking. I think working on the content of the game is better than seeing random people on the internet going crazy over a random character getting added to Smash. It is to the point where they care about the trailers more than the actual game. Going forward Smash should prioritize quality over quantity. Which ended up being the main problem with Ultimate. Speaking of Sakurai I really want him to leave Smash and create new original games with his visions and talent. Kid Icarus Uprising is a stunning example of what he can do with his own efforts and creativity without the limitations on Nintendo's all star game. There is a video by a guy named Schaffrillas Productions called "Why Kid Icarus Uprising Is An Underrated Masterpiece" that made me realize why we should value Sakurai's originality instead wanting more Smash Bros. I think Ultimate could be his last Smash game for a long time. Of course I want him to take a break, but if he does make a comeback I want him to present to us his new original ideas.

[@raidoukuzonoha883]

When you realise Smash has always leaned very very heavily into the hype gaming culture 💀💀

[@thebestworst8002]

@@raidoukuzonoha883 it always has but ultimate took it way too far.

[@AeroFlash15]

I agree with the sentiment, although I felt Ultimate can be an exception since it was a special occasion. It's probably the only time we'll get every veteran back (which originally was an unimaginable concept), so going all out with guest characters for this game is thematically appropriate, not to mention a prime opportunity to do so. Hopefully, it doesn't lean too heavy into the aspect in the future and we go back higher emphasis on Nintendo characters and history, because that's what I really appreciate about Smash.

[@Knirfish]

Idk I felt it worked for this game because of the whole "Celebration of Gaming History" thing. Sure it's the most important to have these playable characters in a playable game above all else, and being able to PLAY as the characters like Joker, Banjo and Sephiroth are the main gig and why people are even hyped in the first place - But after time has passed, it's just natural to play as them in the game without much second thought beyond "Character Fun". But the hard, raw VIBE of seeing them revealed and put in the spotlight with these cool trailers accentuated and celebrated their inclusion, making them feel beloved and important to gaming rather than just being another character. There they are with the big ones, the established crew. Steve from Minecraft being alongside historical legends like Mario and Pac-Man, or Banjo & Kazooie being re-united with members from the DK Crew. Stuff like that. Also yeah Smash has leaned into hype culture since Brawl lmao. You know they did Snake and Sonic's reveal like that for a reason so like. lol

[@anomaly395]

@@Knirfish I agree. My only problem with Ultimate is the lack of unique modes, not the gaming culture, third party thing. I think it’s awesome that we went from Nintendo’s best to gaming all-stars, and really shows the growth of the series. I don’t think about it as fanservice, I just see it as an epic crossover and a celebration of gaming like you said. Seeing all of these characters together here and being able to make all of these crazy combinations like Metal Gear and Mario or Minecraft and Kingdom Hearts is so fun. I just wish there was more to do in the game to fully capitalize on that.

[@tyronetiggums6441]

I do think a proper Adventure mode would be a good start for a successor to Ultimate but I don't see how cutting the roster size will ever sit right with the casual audience since they don't care about game balance or moveset uniqueness. Some are inevitable of course since you can expect most third-party characters to beat it but first-party characters would be harder to justify since there's no IP or music rights to negotiate time and resources for.

[@andimari9194]

Completely agree. Also we can’t forget, most of the sales comes from a casual or semi-competitive audience

[@harpot678]

They should just make the sequel SSBU: Rollback Edition, and just lower the input lag.

[@andimari9194]

@@harpot678 do that and add more modes and characters and boom. Millions of sales lol

[@smashbronikko]

A lot of people would prefer if Ultimate got ported, but me personally would like it better if we just had a restart of some kind and give a refresh to the veterans who need it the most and slight retooling of others. That statement from Sakurai always rubbed me the wrong way too. Him saying that he's the only on who can make a smash game just isn't true, cause as you said, there's an entire team behind him as well. I know that there's some talented people out there who could make a great smash game that should be given a chance to. As much as I have respect for the guy, I just don't agree with his statement. Sakurai also hasn't made a Kirby game in years, so if Kirby can go on just fine without him, then I'm sure Smash can do the same.

[@UncreativePF]

I pretty much agree with everything you said, but devils advocate has me thinking it's possible without Sakurai the same amount of love might not be present, even from his own staff who worked for him. Just because a person follows orders well doesn't mean they would be good to lead in development of another- perhaps Sakurai couldn't see a heir with the same values for purely making a good game as oppossed to corporate soulessness.

[@smashbronikko]

​@@UncreativePF That could be a possibility yes, but at the same time, same values could just be a direction that differs from Sakurai's for better or for worse. And if that isn't the case and nobody on the team is willing to take the helm, then they could look else were. Like how Bandai Namco helped develop Smash 4 and Ultimate.

[@kissconsider]

Smash is Sakurai's brainchild through and through tho. Since 64, it's been directly intertwined with his visions, despite outsourced help. For lack of a better comparison, its like his personal toy box. Sure another developer could make a smash game and just copy what was previously done, but i doubt it would have the same passion and attention to detail the other games had. It's one of those things you don't notice until its gone

[@doclouis4236]

Yeah, but think about how much Nintendo's philosophy has influence over those other developers and how they'll likely drastically change the gameplay, forget to include certain details in specific characters like for their movesets, and more than likely focus heavily on the casual side much to the dismay of the hardcore audience that Smash Bros. has culminated over the years.

[@anomaly395]

I’m kinda with these other replies. I’m not against a new director, but I feel like the chances of someone out there giving it the same amount of love and detail as Sakurai has through each game is slim. I mean the man really understands the gaming community and has given a lot of respect to each and every character he’s implemented (well, with the slight exception of Sonic I guess). I would at least hope Sakurai is a supervisor or something. Or finds someone who he can pass his knowledge down to. I don’t think he’s egotistical, I’m pretty sure he’s just worried about how a new person could miss some important stuff.

[@timothydarden6133]

Two words: Smash Run. Sometimes you never know how badly you wanted something until its gone. I loved the mode in Smash 3DS, would've loved to see it in Ultimate, and would love to see it in a future entry. I thought the concept of going around a labyrinth, kicking enemy @$$ left & right, powering up in the process, and then squaring off in battle while powered up was a breathtaking time-killer.

[@dustymcwari4468]

Yeah, and that was also super missing in Ultimate, being able to traverse levels with the characters while dealing with all kinds of monsters, beating puzzles, challenges, and gathering lots of collectibles along the way, it was a very nice change of pace that also made you use the characters differently WoL is really just more fights vs the same characters you’re already fighting over and over, on the same stages you’re already fighting over and over, the only reason why I occasionally go back to it, is to redo the boss rush, but nothing else really :/

[@Aqnepo]

Smash run definitely should have came back, it had the potential to offer elements of adventure mode without actually being an adventure mode, while also being a cool other option for online smash. Kinda hate how you can't play squad strike online too, I mean it's like why not? I also liked how smash 4 had like 3 custom move options for every characters special moves and was really hoping that was coming back and improved upon, Id rather have that than total character overhalls. Would seem to satisfy changing the characters up if they're creative enough (Ganon could even get his tennis balls), while also keeping the option of normality for the character, and, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO BE USED ONLINE!!! PLEASE!! Just dont put in cool features and sabotage the act by not including it in online multiplayer. I don't even give a crap about the spirits, but I still think it should be somewhere in the preferences as an option, also taunts. In conclusion, I agree, and think Smash run would have been infinitely better of a mode choice than stage builder, thats all, go away now

[@SirProtagonist]

For some reason I suspect the reason smash run never came back is simply because the switch/wii U doesn't have a second screen to display the stats you've collected. Nor a great reason but this is Sakurai who doesn't want cutscenes in smash anymore because people put them on KZbin.

[@XeroDeadshot]

I think that point about more love to characters comes very apparent when you look at Kazuya. All of Kazuya's moves in smash are ported from Tekken. You can call every move in smash by its tekken input and be correct. Hell even perfect electrics are a thing for Kazuya. Imagine putting that kind of love into some of these base game characters

[@Antonio-is2cn]

Well Super Smash Bros is still a "fighting game" not some adventure game where they try to stick every reference they can in a moveset, you still have to see the characters do generic/made up punches kicks grabs and throws for the sake of characters having distinct moves

[@felldoh9271]

Yeah seriously, like imagine Ganondorf with a kit based on Ocarina of Time, and Young Link with a kit based on Majora’s Mask (wouldn’t even need to be a stance fighter because the transformation masks could just be part of his Specials, Smash Attacks, and regular attacks, the Giant’s Mask as his Final Smash and Fierce Deity Mask as his gimmick transformation. Done deal, but they’ll probably never do that which is so frustrating).

[@KonaKonaKaabisteru]

It's because they're 3rd Party guests, pretty sure this means they got to be done well and given good priority too in means of designing and polishing them for the roster - otherwise we'd end up with poor case of Sonic due getting rushed out the door.

[@ArtTheGaleWind]

i think that you misunderstand what Sakurai meant, I don't believe he means "only I can make smash bros" but more so that he has a vision for how this series works that no one else can perfectly replicate, as a kinda left field but still somewhat similar example, plenty of people took issue with the manga Berserk continuing without the original Mangaka Miura writting it considering he passed away, because yes he left notes of how the story should continue, and yes he had assistants that were trained to draw exactly like him and yes they claimed that nothing will be added so to keep his original vision, but it would still not be perfect as Miura's vision was unique to him and nobody else could replicate it, and that's how I see Sakurai's vision here, new people CAN bring new ideas but only he knows all the specifics in and outs to make the game work, I am NOT saying smash should die without sakurai and I am aware the example I made is from 2 different pieces of media but my point is that I understand where Sakurai is coming from and he has a point to make

[@AeroFlash15]

This isn't to mention the heavy workload that comes with every proceeding installment. Sakurai infers his apprehension to building a new game "out of nothing," as oppose to building on assets from a preexisting foundation with sound reasoning. People took Sakurai's wording the wrong way. He's made it clear that he's open to someone else heading Smash's development, but due to it not working out from previous attempt(s), he's rightfully unsure.

[@raidoukuzonoha883]

@sonic 1995 💀 actually read the fucking comments

[@GawainSSB]

@sonic 1995 frankly Sakurai isn't wrong. Look at all the disaster western smash clones, they're terrible. They all feel awful floaty and the animations just don't work with what you're doing. Based on the evidence, I'm inclined to agree with Sakurai lol, everyone else who has tried has failed.

[@eem2wavy133]

@sonic 1995 like?

[@NuiYabuko]

No, you're doing it wrong. No logic, only emotions and conspiracy theories.

[@tripleoof8159]

The last chapter of this video reminded me of the same situation Ghibli had. Miyazaki was super involved in almost every project as director to the point that no one was given the proper experience or chance. While there is truth that Sakurai's experience is invaluable for desicion making in the development of the game, I think Nintendo should have dedicated time to look for a person he can pass that knowledge to. Even more so if he doesn't want to direct the next game, it's best to have a different project and allow a new person to handle the Smash series so they can learn as early as possible. You can even argue that Nintendo should have been doing this in the first place, making a singular guy consistently be the one to think of ideas is just not sustainable or healthy in the long run. I don't think he is coming of a place of being egotistical, as there is truth that the experience of being a director for a long period of time is unique, and some ropes can only be learnt by being the leader itself. Which is even more reason why another person who has been working close and has the proper experience to be able to start learning from him. Or perhaps it's time to have a different direction entirely. Nintendo put their eggs in one basket and this is one of the consequences they have to face at some point. While his worries make sense, I don't think it's right to immediately think that someone else can't take the wheel, and they should do something to make sure someone can handle Smash as a project.

[@megasoniczxx]

I get the sense that Sakurai feels a personal responsibility to the series since he's been with it for so long and while he might've only stuck with this game because of his promise to Iwata (God bless his soul) he might've been pushed to do it regardless both since Nintendo banks on this series a lot and because it's basically his baby. I do really hope he get's the chance to do something else again though. Man's got an incredible gift for game design and keeping him permanently on smash duty just seems like such a waste of his talents.

[@Gemnist98]

Miyazaki and Takahata at Ghibli had PLENTY of people they tried to rope into taking over the reins at the studio, they just all collapsed. Miyazaki tried to get his son Goro onboard, but Goro does not seem to like filmmaking whatsoever in favor of a landscaping career and it has resulted in him making the absolute worst of Ghibli’s output. Yoshifumi Kondo came close, but he died not long after his one and only movie. And Hiromasa Yonebayashi appeared to be a fresh newcomer that could take the helm, but he left to make his own studio.

[@raidoukuzonoha883]

There's one issue with a story like Subspace in Ultimate. how in the fuck would you fit all those characters in one story without it being confusing or drawn out

[@raidoukuzonoha883]

also I just realised, mans brought min min back and not like.. mega man or Simon. tf

[@elemomnialpha]

Just don't force it then Subspace didn't include everyone on the roster in the story. Toon Link, Wolf, and Jigglypuff were unrelated "post game" just do that for whoever can't fit directly into the story

[@raidoukuzonoha883]

@@elemomnialphaif that's the case with the scale of Ultimates roster. So many you'd have to leave out.

[@elemomnialpha]

@@raidoukuzonoha883 I don't think most people would complain about a more substantial post game, as long as the story tries to somewhat justify why they wouldn't really make sense in the primary narrative

[@Yoshizuyuner]

@@raidoukuzonoha883 that is so true lmfao

[@DeepWeeb]

The strangest part about Ultimate ending support is that not only the game won't be getting any more balancing updates or bugfixes *but also it means it most-likely will never fix the netcode by adding rollback, **_a feature that more and more fighting games, even ass-old ones from the 90s get to add with a very simple patch_* (maybe that's why they had to shoot down Slippi since it's actually embarrasing to think that a bunch of amateur hackers could implement it in a game that Nintendo hasn't re-released works better than the product they sell to the masses and had put a paywall for a dysfunctional online experience)

[@Yoshizuyuner]

my guy its a old game we were lucky to even get dlc

[@millionshadesofdarkness2165]

@@Bombastic_daioh 🧢

[@Bombastic_daioh]

@@millionshadesofdarkness2165 ?

[@spoiledsalad1851]

@@Bombastic_daioh My toaster has better online

[@Bombastic_daioh]

@@spoiledsalad1851 Classic troll responce lmao

[@MetalHyper0]

How Smash continues is actually something I've thought a lot about, and while a continuous porting of Ultimate would ensure we don't have to lose out on some favorite characters, I think the only true way to move forward in an interesting way would be something completely different, be it a bunch of moveset overhauls like you said, or even something like making a 3D fighter, which I think would be really cool to see. I think now's a better time than ever to revamp these characters with big games they've had like Dread for Samus, BOTW for Link, literally any game released in the last 15 years for Sonic, it might be uncertain what we're getting, but personally I'm more interested to see where Smash goes from this than ever.

[@samt3412]

Ultimate has had itself in the "what comes next?" problem since it's name was revealed. Okay, you're officially the DEFINITIVE Smash game, what about the one for the next console?

[@TheReZisTLust]

Sonic in a 3d environment arena fighting Mario and G&W would be glorious if done right

[@StraightUpGamin]

It's a weird juxtaposition hearing that Sakurai quote about other people taking over as director. I honestly thought when the final Smash Presentation was announced, since Sakurai has been prominent on our screens since the 2014 directs, that a section of the presentation would be dedicated to the staff. Cuz think about it. This was just nonstop development since 2011 with Smash 4. A decade. I always thought "Okay Sakurai being in pain is sad, but it might be also a way to also say the other devs are going through it as well." Like on a level it was a solidarity thing. The other workers may only be a minigame in the credits, but Sakurai's right there with them powering through it. Yet after a decade he doesn't trust them to be as good a director. Alright.

[@crysanthiumvega]

a boss not trusting their employees even though the employees carry them, where have i heard that before?

[@autocorrect5456]

He's been saying this since smash 4. I already lost respect for him hearing it back then so hearing it again doesn't really do much. Smash 4's pitiful quality is proof enough that he should've stepped down after brawl.

[@Lexicon865]

Idk if it's really him being arrogant or not trusting of other people but moreso unsure how it'll turn out, especially since Smash kinda has a lot of Sakurai's own philosophies and design ethos ingrained into it that someone else doing it may not exactly be "worse" than his attempts to his eyes, but moreso just different to the point that it's hard to envision that new form of Smash with how Smash as a series currently is. Maybe just me though

[@Merricktherox]

@@Lexicon865 Think you nailed it perfectly. By and large with the help of his very talented team of programmers and everyone else involved they're able to create something largely in his vision.

[@jirehtheprovider]

so in this case, while some community members are willing to try out a completely new developer and team to develop Smash, Sakurai himself and other fans are not feeling or seeing themselves open for others to Develop smash bros.

[@BlazingAzureQrow]

"My goal here is to keep as many universes as a can while cutting the roaster in half." *cuts out 11 universes and keeps 6 reps from mario, and 3 reps from zelda and pokemon*

[@Amsel_616]

MC, Rival/Sidekick and Villan works good enough for most of them.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Based Jebtube only keeping Marth and Robin, I liked it better with 2 FE Reps in Melee and Brawl, back then people referred to them as those 2 cool sword dudes, good times, then again the hypothetical DLC would probably include Alear or Pepsi/Toothpaste Chan/Kun from Engage.

[@10Bendog]

Right, and, like, Isabelle, Diddy, Wolf and Aegis staying, but any of the Simon or Richter, Mega Man, Snake, Bayonetta, Terry, Kazyua, Banjo and Steve don't??

[@djerk2138]

and they keep to xenoblade reps including the annoying aegis, we can see where this dudes bias lies

[@javi5072]

@@brandonwilliams6119 based take. marth is face of FE and robin is the face of modern FE that blew up.

[@BizVlogs]

26:26 Very subtle reference to George Lucas saying “we’re never going to beat Titanic, nobody can“ talking about the phantom menace

[@TheMack625]

Deep stuff, JebTube. Ultimate...really is a special game. 89 fighters, some of them being heavily requested newcomers and literally every veteran coming back, alongside its huge stage selection and soundtrack makes it a fine game indeed. With that being the case, I am ready for the next chapter of Smash. Cutting the roster doesn't sound very fun, but revamping fighters to be a bit more "canon" (although I really don't mind the "toy-esque" aspect of how they are now) would be fair. More importantly, I would _love_ to usher in more modes like trophies, a fun Adventure Mode, Event Matches, All-Star, and Smash Run. A roster comparable to Smash 4 wouldn't be a terrible downgrade. Chances are, we won't see another Smash for about another five or six years from now. It will likely be for the next console Nintendo has. Ultimate isn't my favorite Smash Bros. game, but I will continue to enjoy it as it is. Great job, Jeb.

[@javi5072]

ultimate doesn't really have 89 characters. it's more like 74 if you cut clutter in the form of clones dating back to melee (doc, pichu, lucina, young link, ganon (?), roy, chrom, toon link, ken, isabelle, dark samus, daisy, dark pit, and either belmont). i count aegis and trainer as one character. aegis (pyra/mythra) is pretty much clones of each other besides 3 specials. you can go through the cast and cut characters that definitely don't deserve to be in a *legendary gaming cross-over super-event* like smash such as min min who came from a switch title that no one cares about, corrin who was added to advertise what turned out to be the worst post-awakening FE title according to FE fans, zero suit who is another samus but comes from the worst metroid game, to an unfunny memey mario fodder in the form of plant, etc. cutting the roster will be a good thing.

[@backup368]

There are 32 characters that the game could have very much done without. Yes, I have a real list. The "heavily requested newcomers" are simply requested by people who already own the game and wouldn't protest otherwise.

[@yxngthugger1561]

@@javi5072 someone’s a hater 😂

[@javi5072]

@@yxngthugger1561 i love smash, but i'm a proud hater of like 1/5 of the cast. hating is my passion.

[@theillusionist1494]

@@javi5072 This dude doesn't understand how fighting game clones work

[@TaleOfTheToaster]

I shared a lot of the same thoughts about the new director comment, but after watching a lot of his game development videos in KZbin, I can at least see where it comes from. The guy is even more involved in any aspect of the game than I ever could’ve imagined, down to drawing 40 pages of pose references for any character animation from special move to idle animation, it does at least feel like a process he’d have to guide somebody through after keeping it so solo for this long. But who knows

[@kartovalribs1872]

The Thanos part is interesting. Because there's a dude named 4thSnake who made a series called "Roster Duster" and the premise is literally Thanos snapping the roster of various games, including Smash. Now, his Thanos Snap video was at the beginning of September 2019 so he was using a roster without knowledge of Byleth and Fighter Pass Vol 2, a whole 7 characters. And yet your list and his are still extremely similar.

[@sentry3019]

I’m glad I’m not the only one to think Sakurai kinda came off as egotistical, I’m sure there’s someone that can take over for Smash and make something good but I also get what he’s saying. Overall as long as he’s into it and isn’t being forced then I’m all for another Smash but I got no problem with a new director either

[@raidoukuzonoha883]

Sakurai isn't egotistical at all tbh.

[@Antonio-is2cn]

Sakurai is not egotistical at all

[@Yoshizuyuner]

sounds like someone mad at shutdown of m+

[@zerofudou5689]

Sakurai isn't egotistical, but his fans sure are. Hardcore Sakurai fans are genuinely the ones that believe no one else can take the helm of Smash franchise once he inevitably stops making smash games or God forbid he dies.

[@Antonio-is2cn]

@@zerofudou5689 Those "hardcore Sakurai fans" are just being supportive which is what every fanbase should be. He's not egotistical at all it's just that Sakurai knows what the identity of Super Smash Bros is inside and outside better than anyone else - A simple fun light-hearted crossover party fighting game that is a celebration of Nintendo and gaming, that's all there's to it and there's a chance someone else might not understand that concept.

[@GoldLight73]

Very well-said. Smash Ultimate really has been a once-in-a-lifetime event, but even if it can never be replicated or surpassed, that doesn’t mean that the franchise has no potential left to explore.

[@noah_ignis]

I really agree on your take at the end of the video and I think a smash game without Sakurai can work he shouldn't be limited to just smash bros. This is the same guy who made Kirby and those games have improved of what Sakurai originally done with the character for example he is the director of Kirby Super Star and future games like Returns to Dreamland and Planet Robobot are major improvements of what he did with Kirby Super Star. Lastly that take where who cares if anyone gets in is completely ridiculous because we play Smash bros for the characters and the celebration of these characters this was a great video keep it up.

[@party11440]

When you mentioned miis for the roster cut, it gave me an idea. Since a lot of the roster is being cut and miis have custom moves, maybe there could be custom moves that act similarly to moves that some of the cut characters have. Like Sword Mii could have a move like Meta Knight's Mach Tornado or Gunner Mii could have a move like Sephiroth's giga flare

[@TheHomiekid]

This but in reverse. Give it to the named fighters on the roster. As an example: if you are gonna play mario, let the player choose between normal Mario’s up special (uppercut) or Dr Marios up special (rising spin I think?). I think if they were to do this, it would excuse the roster cut as you would get cut characters moves, on the characters from the series (or on the non-echo characters).

[@UncreativePF]

@@TheHomiekid And just port Dr Mario as a skin. Honestly, I get echo fighters dont take much to make, but they can just be alternate costumes and nobody would care.

[@nightmare3642]

@@TheHomiekid Dr. Mario's up special is still the uppercut. The spin is his down special.

[@LloydTheZephyrian]

@@nightmare3642 Their up specials do work pretty differently.

[@randocommando7945]

@@TheHomiekid Hopefully if that does happen, unlocking the alternate special moves won't be nearly as tedious as it was in Smash 4

[@BlakeAtStake]

I've personally thought a 3D smash game to be the next best direction It would be experimental for sure but people wouldn't compare it to ultimate because of it being fundamentally different, it would be innovating in an all new way

[@sdpr_5]

Rumble verse

[@thesuperMasterSword]

I've recently been thinking of a Warriors-like for Smash. I personally think something like that could be very intriguing.

[@NintendanGX]

The thing I want most from the next Smash game, besides Shulk staying and having his moves better represent Xenoblade 1, is a proper Adventure Mode/Singleplayer Campaign. I want to see these characters interact with each other again, and not just be tied to a frustrating multiplayer experience where the fun hinges on who you play with and how. I want to see Shulk drawing from his past hardships and giving an earnest pep-talk to Lucas, or Kazooie pissing off Little Mac and dragging poor ol' Banjo into an unnecessary fight, or Mario and Sonic actually fighting enemies together, side by side, as a god-tier duo. Let me smash hoards of Mechon to pieces as Bayonetta, and take on the Demi-fiend as Pac-man!

[@jomaq9233]

Sadly I don’t think this would ever happen, massive multiverse crossover games in general rarely ever develop the story or the actual character interactions all that much, I would be happy to be proven wrong by examples of massive multiverse crossovers doing just that

[@NintendanGX]

@@jomaq9233 I'm not asking for Project X Zone levels of interaction, just something more in line with Subspace Emisary, but with a world that actually merges locations from all these different games, and a bit of voice acting like we saw in World of Light's intro (for the characters who'd actually talk). Something to give context to the fun adventure I'd be playing, rather than just a tacked-on story to matches I can easily recreate in Special Smash. Mario and Sonic wouldn't even need to exchange words, because the audience already knows what a big deal it'd be for these two characters to team up and fight enemies from both their universes, culminating in a combined-bossfight against Bowser and Dr Eggman.

[@jomaq9233]

@@NintendanGX I think it’s also all a matter of which missing things are okay with being missing in Ultimate in exchange for all the content that is there, and, to be honest, I don’t find the missing stuff to be that big of a deal when it’s generally improved everywhere else

[@jirehtheprovider]

so in a nutshell, you want Nintendo of Japan to hire every staff and individual of Wooden Plank Comic studios to develop the plot of this single player experience alongside it's developers. See their voiced comics on the you tube channel for a better context. Fun but uber huge order there.

[@javi5072]

lucas already went thru shit in his game

[@mrbubbles6468]

I like how your cutdown roster did not include Jigglypuff despite the fact that she is as simple to make as Kirby and will therefore never not be in a game.

[@squallleonhart9387]

Like you said in your last video, *”Brawl was more Ultimate than Ultimate itself”* still very based and still very true, so glad I grew up with Melee followed by Brawl.

[@MrConnman123]

Masahiro Sakurai, everyone's favourite indie developer.

[@MattDustyParker]

As usual, great script writing. I really appreciate the nuance to your commentary. We have different opinions and levels of appreciation for ultimate. Glad to hear perspective outside my own. You make lots of good, square, fair points. Game development is about trade offs, so natural consequences were bound to happen. The end product and experience has been, and continues to be, some of the most enjoyment of my life. Getting to share in every ultimate has and will be with old and new friends, or foes, alike has been delightful. As for what could come next, you tackled it all very tactfully. I'm always gonna advocate for no fighter cuts. Yet in the same breath I do mourn the cuts of content I did enjoy in past titles. If spirits had description and info text regarding appearances, much like trophies, it would drastically increase my fulfillment with Ultimate. I don't need subspace 2, and classic mode has been nearly perfected (more bosses), yet I would like more single player content above Event mode and home run contest. I'll defend world of light simply for it being Event mode, a lauded melee mode. Sure it's long but you're not supposed to marathon it; beat it at your own pace. I wanted Ultimate to continue on. I wanted fighters pass 3. I wanted more Mii outfits, more stages. I wanted Nintendo/bamco to turn Ultimate into a neverending platform. I wouldn't be opposed to Ultimate being ported going forward. Even with all the trade offs Ultimate has, I couldn't be happier. If there is a next smash, it likely won't be for me. And that's okay. I got more than I ever thought I would. Great video Jeb. I hope you find new life in Ultimate.

[@javi5072]

can you honestly not see anyone deserving of a cut

[@MattDustyParker]

​@@javi5072 Lucina;) but I can't play the bias game like that

[@lordxrz6588]

I hope in the next smash the classic mode for each fighter has a final boss related to that characters franchise.

[@robertlauncher]

I don’t think it is Ultimate beyond the cast. The single player requires the player to use their imagination to pretend they’re fighting a lot of these characters. The story presentation’s nowhere near Subspace Emissary, and I kinda get that because of the enormous cast, but I definitely think you could’ve justified it as a story focusing on only the more popular Nintendo characters. The amount of new stages are lacking, the freaking Final Fantasy music list is a joke, etc

[@cup-o-joe4679]

If any of the roster stayed I want steve to stay but he might actually not because remember they had to go in and re program every stage just to add steve with his neutral B making him alone the hardest character to program in smash history but if they made a new game with him in it they could probably code the stages with Steve's moveset in mind

[@yygamma3905]

you hit the nail on the head with this one i completely agree that a game that reworks every fighter every giving them all new move sets and attention to detail would be fire

[@Pureheartt13]

This video is well done. Excited for the future of Smash, and to hear more of your thoughts about other topics.

[@FedoraKirb]

With all due respect to Sakurai, his sentiment of “no one but me can do it” has always bothered me for two reasons. First, if he feels that no one in the world can truly live up to his legacy for directing Smash, and it’s so big of a deal he can’t trust someone to do it, that’s his and Nintendo’s fault for not taking the time to train someone to do the job. Second, I know this is on a smaller scale, but this wouldn’t be the first of Sakurai’s “children” that he left in someone else’s hands-Sakurai hasn’t directed a Kirby game since 2003, with his last credited role in the series being a “Special Advisor” on Amazing Mirror in 2004. I wasn’t around when he left, but I imagine there was probably a similar sentiment from fans about no one being able to live up to his legacy, especially considering the reception of Shinichi Shimomura’s Dark Matter Saga at the time. And indeed, his departure was likely at least partially responsible for the in-house Kirby drought of the 2000’s. Yet despite this, since Shinya Kumazaki stepped into the role of series director in 2008, we’ve gotten some of the best games in the series hands down, and the franchise is doing better than ever. The games have a different feel from Sakurai’s games despite using similar mechanics, but they show that it’s not impossible to make quality content without him. It just might take some time.

[@ivrydice0954]

I get what you're trying to say but Kirby isn't even as big a seller as smash is in this day and age let alone back when Sakurai stopped working on it. Him leaving simply has less an impact back then as it would now.

[@FedoraKirb]

@@ivrydice0954 Sure, him leaving Smash would be way more _impactful_ on an emotional level, but my point is that of the 8 billion people on this planet, _someone_ out there could do a more than competent job of leading the next Smash Bros., with or without training.

[@ivrydice0954]

@@FedoraKirb Emotional level? No I mean from a business one. Sakurai can sell an idea or a game if a guy knows he's on it. A beyond seasoned vet at this point. It's reflected in some interviews Sakurai walks into an elevator with a Disney executive. They start talking and they convince Nomura to bring Sora over. Sakurai stated Namco wanted Pac-Man's TV show design in the game. He refused and Pac gets his world design when smash 4 drops. I'm not sure if you remember a crossover called Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale. They had a new dev team called Superbot, and you may notice big names like Crash or Spyro were missing, and Dante was in his Devil May Cry reboot design before it's release as a promotion, Raiden was in the MGRR design for a promotion. There were 2 Cole McGraths in the game. That's because they didn't have any talking power they were forced to take these deals or risk not having the characters period. So maybe just maybe when out of those 8 billion most of them aren't game developers & directors with massively successful and influential careers that span over 30 years that are willing to work sick with an IV drip, and skip holidays off just to get new characters out on time. I think people might see that and be less willing to lend their very expensive IPs to them compared to Sakurai.

[@FedoraKirb]

@@ivrydice0954 When Sakurai talks about not having a successor, I don’t think he’s talking about it from a business perspective, but let’s look at that. PASBR’s roster was partially a matter of timing, and partially a matter of ownership: Sony was very much focused on getting recent characters rather than legacy (hence new Dante due to DMC Reboot being upcoming, for example). IIRC the dual Cole was a Sony mandate, and it was Sony not willing to negotiate with companies, because Sony doesn’t own Crash or Spyro. So yes, it’s partially SuperBot not having credibility, but Sakurai’s successor would not have this problem on a 1st party level. Yes, Sakurai has pull in the industry, he’s able to get characters that very few other available people could. But a new Smash Bros. would have to scale back anyway; the sequel will not have anywhere near the scale of Ultimate in terms of roster, so you may as well use that time to build up a new Director with primarily 1st party and a few 3rd parties, so that when Sakurai finally takes a break and Nintendo inevitably orders a new Smash Bros., there’s someone who can fill Sakurai’s shoes. Also, “Sakurai’s Successor” may not have the same level of pull, but it should get you at least _some_ 3rd parties. And speaking of Sakurai taking a break, while Sakurai’s dedication is certainly admirable, maybe we _shouldn’t_ be glamorizing working yourself to near-death in an industry that has normalized crunch culture. Sorry if I sound angry, I don’t mean to start a fight. This is just my own thought process.

[@ivrydice0954]

@@FedoraKirb I heard the double Cole was on Naughty Dog but potato potato same issue either way. But this Sakurai successor you described sounds like one of the worst case scenarios. If you set the Sakurai successor in a situation to be a downgrade to the last work that'll play right into Sakurai's expectations & standards. Which is what I assumed we wanted to avoid. Like I get what I'm implying. I'm not trying to glorify crunch culture, but it's just the way the dude works, and it's the other half of why Sakurai has an ego to say that in the first place. No need to sugarcoat it. Dude basically never has to worry about deadlines with how devoted he is. Very few can ever say that for anything let alone a fighting game franchise that isn't their brainchild. Like my point isn't that Sakurai shouldn't be be swapped or won't be. He deserves a break. It's that when the guy says no one can do what he does. I won't say that's too far a stretch. If I didn't hear it from his own mouth I probably wouldn't believe the stuff he's done. In that regard I don't blame you if you don't it sounds basically impossible.

[@yaminogame]

I personally would be completely down for a Smash Bros reboot! If this were to be Sakurai’s last smash bros game to direct, then a reboot with a different creative director would be the best way to go. They could focus on a smaller roster. I would be happy if the roster were melee’s size. It would give them a chance to try new things, revamp older characters kits, and even be able to add new modes. Please please PLEASE add Smash Run again. That mode has so much potential to be one of the greatest modes in Smash Bros history!

[@MetalGearRaxis]

"A perpetual now" HOLY SHIT, JEBTUBE IS MOEBIUS.

[@LunaSkye64]

I’m still very vindictive over how everyone was shitting on Bayonetta (a character I honestly really wanted and thought was impossible because she was “too mature”) yet see others get so hype over sans (a gd mii costume) and Minecraft Steve, so I’m not understanding how people can say “it doesn’t matter who makes it in 🤡” when it’s obvious y’all want your preferred character in this game.

[@slidingcoffee8113]

Would you ever consider making a Fire Emblem video? I think you'd have unique opinions

[@theeggthatsurvivedhowtobas778]

I think the best thing they can do is start from scratch. Have the roster keep some fan favorite characters but instead maybe make the rest of them all brand new characters, and a slightly smaller roster.

[@zeanone9257]

why not just keep the original fighter they started with

[@henryfleischer404]

I find it really funny how enthusiastic everyone is about Sora, when I barely know what Kingdom hearts is. I just want a Touhou character to play as. Also that bit about Sakurai made me think about my dad, and his job. He's a game designer at wizards of the coast, and Mark Rosewater is sort of their star game designer, filling a similar role to what Sakurai does in the community. Because of they way Magic the Gathering works, no one team lead is enough at any one time, as nobody can reasonably lead more than 3 sets at once, and sets take years to develop. Usually, although some of the earlier sets were made much quicker. This made it necessary for there to be multiple skilled lead designers, not just one, and also lead to things like the Great Designer Search. And even then, winners just became designers, not lead designers. There had to be systems deliberately built to train people over the course of a few years to get to the point of being able to lead even just one set at a time. Anyway, I can see why Sakurai would worry that nobody can replace him. If they don't have a system to train people to lead development for this sort of game, it could be a problem. Personally, I'd have HAL labs make smash 6, as they seem to know what they are doing.

[@PeruvianPotato]

Honestly, idk how a Touhou character would even play like given that most of the games are shoot em up. Don't get me wrong, I have 2 characters as part of my dream list but even I don't know how they'd play like

[@mettatonneoex]

Sakurai with Smash Bros has to have time to find one who will honour the legacy he has created. It's that near unstoppable force that can keep something beyond the realm of reasonableness. It's like the Master looking for the Students who will become the next Master. May he have a break to find the one

[@wuba5456]

Been trying to think of a comment to boost the algorithm the entire video... now that it's done, uhh, I get really happy when you upload your videos, you make really good points and bring in your own ideas, with the humour sprinkled in these videos are just great to listen to

[@smoothdude77]

I'm honestly less skeptical of Sakurai's intent ever since the Ultimate DLC, yet I'm worried he's getting in his own head even more. In hindsight with his KZbin channel, it's pretty clear that he was running the show in the video production-side, right down to the editing style. But at the same time what other 'Nintendo' developer goes out of their way to accumulate a Twitter and KZbin Community? And, I get the vibe that Nintendo leaves Sakurai to his own devices when it comes to Smash. His passion can't be understated, but it can easily degrade the franchise since the very design behind Smash is held in high regard. Examples are Mii Costumes (Isabelle, K. Rool) coming back when they didn't need to, Fighters not changing their movesets to "not upset their fans", and building up to Ultimate's Everyone is Here time-after-time Sakurai mourns about cutting a character. He put quality time and effort into developing them yea, but his obsession with his craft comes off as concerning, and we know he can't be challenged the more influence he has. Top it off with having quite an ego, and it spells something concerning not only for Smash, but Sakurai's well being. Now I don't know the guy so this is all speculation, but this is the same guy that nearly refused to include PAC-MAN if he had to use his Ghostly Adventure design, and also cutting an Adventure Mode from Smash 4 out of spite. Those are very particular and childish decisions. His type of authoritarian lead has given us Ultimate to be fair, but I don't want it to burn his games or his fans which it can very easily do. Also, I believe it does matters who gets in Smash. People are crazy to take Sakurai for granted, since he's an exception and not the rule by how he tries to get literally everything he can. That's why I'm always interested in roster discussions and ideas, but the only thing we can do as fans is have fun with those ideas, instead of like, forming a mob mentality. Tho that's not exclusively a Smash problem, but the Smash community is infamous for its behavior. Anyways, good video

[@nabbit5574]

How is choosing specific design choices make one have an ego or "authoritarian"? Especially when Ghostly Adventures design isn't even good or even representative of Pac-Man as a gaming franchise?

[@smoothdude77]

@@nabbit5574 It's authoritarian because his process is controlling at all levels (creatively, execution, conceptually, etc.), and his general work process has been described as "controlling" in the past. His ego comes from how he's literally claiming no one can make higher quality content than him, and he speaks in absolutes on his KZbin channel. It's not all bad since he's definitely earned that respect, but the whole point of my comment is that kind of attitude can easily backfire or hold back the series from growing.

[@raidoukuzonoha883]

@@nabbit5574 dude... Just ignore these people lmao. People just make speculation on decisions that they'd probably make themself and blow out of proportion as omg he's got such an ego... When the very creator of this video is over dramatic and pretentious af.

[@nabbit5574]

@@smoothdude77 Mate, he is the Director. Ofc he going to have most of the control Smash is his vision.

[@nabbit5574]

@@raidoukuzonoha883 Smash Fans love their nonsencial takes. JebTube is fine tho. I liked this video

[@Laekith]

I lost it at that Thanos part

[@Dionaea_floridensis]

A story focused smash game, like an RPG or something, would be insanely hype

[@SnipingIsFun]

The characters they add are practically always marketing based. So pay attention to new games that come out and what Nintendo pushes. Especially for series that always get new games like Fire Emblem and Pokemon.

[@ivrydice0954]

How is Kazuya a marketing choice? Tekken is barely on Nintendo. 😭

[@TheSqueakerNerd]

The heart screams seeing the roster cut but I like the ideas behind what could be done with that. Might be good ideas anyway since I'm sure they won't have that many characters anytime soon.

[@caryslan5890]

I have a feeling the next Nintendo system will likely get a Smash Ultimate Special Edition that features new fighters in the base roster like Waluigi, new or returning levels that missed Ultimate like Rainbow Road in 3DS, expanded single player content, and maybe tweaks to mechanics. It would also include all the existing DLC from the current game while selling more DLC to expand the roster further. It seems like expanding Ultimate may be the best solution rather than building another Smash game from the ground up that loses fighters.

[@LateNightHalo]

God that halo portion had me depressed when you showed the MTX menu

[@lightningrex4998]

I love smash bros ultimate my only problem is we have so many characters that very similar to others. I feel these characters should just be a skin instead of a full character slot like doctor mario or pichu. And I would love some epic adventure mode like they did with brawl

[@alchemistofsteel8099]

I feel like they didn't go far enough with echo fighters. Imagine a shadow echo for Sonic or Kairi or Riku echo for Sora

[@Yoshizuyuner]

@@alchemistofsteel8099 they couldn't prob because of the money is burning up over all the spending on getting 3rd partys, and echo fighters were meant to easily fill in few spots its not meant to be its own full character that why there called echo fighters and some of characters would not work as echo like pichu because of his ability to damage himself sets him apart from pikachu it would be weird to see as echo

[@gormottigrebel9978]

Why though? Them being a seperate spot on the roster doesn't really change anything

[@NuiYabuko]

Everyone is Here.

[@Mal-go5dl]

​​@@alchemistofsteel8099 making characters clones just for the sake of having them in feels lazy, especially if the moveset doesn't accurately represent the character

[@CitizenKen01]

A full reboot of the series going forward is something I wouldn’t mind seeing. I really like the idea of keeping the core gameplay mechanics of Smash but giving an overhaul of the classic character movie sets. I can picture finally seeing a move set for Ganondorf that is more inline with his abilities in the Zelda games rather than a heavy copy of Capt Falcon’s moves. You wouldn’t have as many characters as ultimate but thats ok because we’ll have new ways of playing old characters with some completely new fighter entering the roster. We will still get to speculate who could be in the next smash game without worrying about who isn’t in the game anymore.

[@Deoxys_Used_Mimic]

So basically the +800 Pokémon “Problem,” but with Smash Characters.

[@mikoaj5002]

14:36 "Hey Snake , we're gonna do it or no?" "NAH, fuck that, kid."

[@ArmaBiologica35]

I don´t think this third option is very plausible either because there´s always the posibility that the licence to use certain characters passes to another company that isn´t willing to cooperate. What if hypothetically Konami sells the rights of Castlevania to Netflix. What if Square Enix goes bankrupt because of their investments on NFT's Even stuff that comes from franchises mostly asociated with Nintendo but it´s owned by other companies like Pokemon or Fire Emblem may or may not fall under this umbrella. It´s the same reason why we have not seen an official PC or Switch port of a game like Tatsunoko Vs Capcom. Tatsunoko just doesn´t want to play ball with Capcom.

[@joshscott6514]

I've been in love with the idea of a team at Nintendo copy-pasting the roster and their abilities into a single player story-based game like subspace. The potential is unlimited.

[@funnyusername4774]

On the subject of whether or not we should continue to get story modes, I think we should just have the game at first with some fun single player content like break the targets and boss rushes, but once all of the dlc characters have come out (if we’re assuming that that also continues to be a thing) I would love some giant grand downloadable story mode that can have full focus put on it for maybe $20, giving you a bonus side story as well if you have all the dlc characters

[@theawemazingcrew9702]

I'm not a complicated man. If the next smash game focused a little more on making another Subspace Emissary type of single player story, I would be thrilled. Some of my best childhood memories are just playing the Subspace Emissary over and over and over again in my basement after school. I probably put about 4 to 5 thousand hours into Brawl throughout 2010-2015 which was around when I was 8-13 years old

[@ZachaRicO]

I don't think Sakurai saying he doesn't see Smash continuing on without him is egotistical at all. His gaming library is easily the most massive gaming library I've ever seen. He's obviously played dozens of different games from varying franchises, which means he's acquired vast knowledge on multiple different games and genres. With how vast Smash Bros' scope is nowadays, a new entry would require extensive knowledge of the various fighters included in order to make them stand out in the cast. Who better to make that happen than Sakurai himself?

[@PantsMasterPlays]

Agreed. I try not to put people on pedestals, but honestly if any director has earned it, it's Sakurai. I don't think it's impossible, but I think following up his work would be a monumental task for anybody.

[@backup368]

I do. He doesn't acquire the rights to IP to make investments & make money back. He sees IP as toys he can play with & he uses another person's money to buy them all. "Who better to make that happen than Sakurai himself?" Anybody that is not Sakurai is better than Sakurai himself. He doesn't like certain games like Tomb Raider, Assassins Creed, Resident Evil, or any marketable franchise that isn't an RPG, so he will never give himself the opportunity to use those characters to attract new customers. He wants crazy haired boys with swords and magic. That's what he is into.

[@WhatIsMyPorpoise]

Anybody other than sakurai likely doesn’t have the connections he’s accumulated across the games industry. We can pretend that vision and passion are the only things that matter in the games industry, but ultimately, unless a new director comes that is just as well-connected as sakurai is comes in (they would also have to work directly under nintendo) games gonna flop. A newbie would likely have to renegotiate all existing deals for characters, stages and music in smash bros. With little history in acting as a director of a crossover platform fighter(therefore less trust). To add new characters on top of that? I just don’t see that happening.

[@backup368]

@@WhatIsMyPorpoise people give Sakurai way too much credit. Who is the director of Fortnite?

[@WhatIsMyPorpoise]

Some guy from Epic Games, who are the creators of the Unreal Engine. They’re going to be well connected because they are from Epic games and because they make shittons of money off of the fortnite store.

[@TanookiTex]

In regards to the “it doesn’t matter who gets in” argument: I never really got angry from any particular reveal, even if that character didn’t connect with me on a personal level (meaning that I played their games prior to Smash). I remember there being so much hate and disgust surrounding the reveals of Byleth’s and Pyra/Mythra, which made it really hard to stay neutral on their inclusion. I do agree that it could’ve been ANYONE else besides them, and I kinda wish other characters were picked instead of them. But it’s hard to argue that one specific character in this game “didn’t deserve to be in”. Especially since everyone’s tastes are different, and not everyone will be satisfied with the same characters. And that’s okay… Everyone’s tastes are different and you can’t please everyone with a single character pick. And that’s fine.

[@deltacosmic5358]

19:46 *uses sales information and then proceeds to delete the character from the #1 highest selling game of all time*

[@pubertdefrog]

12:57 there’s no reason to cut any first party characters at all, so I wouldn’t be worried if your favorite character was cut as long as they are first party / second party. Cutting them would just be lazy, if not more of an effort than reusing the assets of said characters in a new game Tbh, it’s the third party characters people should be worried about being cut. The only third party character im thinking will be cut is sora and hero, those two are definitely not coming back due to negotiations that have to be made (ig square enix is on good terms with Nintendo, but I think they would prioritize FF over dragon quest)

[@itsmesteve1081]

I wish ultimate had more side modes. World of light, to me, is just a glorified arcade mode. I didn't put as many hours in to ultimate as I did in smash 4 3ds. All I did in smash 4 3ds was play online in for glory. That's probably why I didn't want to play smash competitively anymore. They dlc also got weaker and weaker over time. I came back for terry, Steve and kazuya but that was it. I had no interest in other dlc characters. Once Mr. Sakurai announced that we were getting the last smash ultimate update with sora I just quit playing pretty much right there.

[@egateqa1351]

The only thing I disagree with is the term Smash Clone. Because Fighting Games don't typically have ripoffs, and some of the most popular fighting games were trying to compete with Street Fighter (Like Mortal Kombat or Tekken). I like to think Super Smash Bros started a sub-genre of fighting games called Platform Fighters.

[@omegahaxors9-11]

You cut every clone but kept both Villager and Isabelle 💀

[@casaroli]

Mario, Zelda and Donkey Kong went on pretty well without Miyamoto. And I’m sorry, but if Miyamoto can step aside on these gaming giants, so can Sakurai.

[@XmortoxX1990]

I feel a Smash game without Sakurai is not only possible, is a necessity. As great as Ultimate was, is based on the primitive foundations of the very first game, with tons of characters stuck with moveset that doesn't represent who they are now. I'll be delighted with a 20-30 player roster with revamps of old characters. Give Mario Cappy and the Galaxy Spin, make Samus move and fight like the new Metroid Games, give Donkey his personality and the Coconut Gun, etc.

[@BitchChill]

The issue, they're still the same characters with slightly different movesets, sp it'd still be a downgrade

[@surelyyoujestin4871]

Fun fact: the reason why SSB bowser feels more like a random creature rather then the expressive character we have today is because Sakurai based his personality off of his own view of bowser when he was young, perceiving him as quote: "a frenzied terrifying monster" This is also likely where giga bowser comes from, being a reference to that feral bowser from years ago

[@furious_pie466]

Oh cool still though I would prefer Bowser to feel more like how he is in the games Also umm Mario? why do you always look pissed off did you not get peach‘s “cake“ did a gumba jump on you MARIO ARE YOU ALRIGH-

[@AxelPRPxx]

Great video!! I also really like the thumbnail!

[@twig7219]

One direction I think the Smash bros could go in is making spin-offs with more focused rosters. One thing about the original Smash 64 is that its roster is basically characters that were stars specifically on the SNES. I think there's potential for things like Smash games focused solely on Switch franchises, or focused solely on Retro characters. For instance if you had an NES-era focused Smash it would still give an opportunity for classic characters that have never gotten to appear in a Smash game without the burden of including a ton of other characters from other eras. It doesn't necessarily need to only be era-based, because part of the fun is having crossover between a variety of things.

[@InkyGhoul]

I get the sentiment, but I can’t believe for a second that even a smash game going for a “fresh start” would ever cut characters as iconic as Falco, for example. Or Roy. …To be honest the more I look at that roster you provided the more I just don’t like it. *Like in what universe is Meta Knight leaving?*

[@butterknife4621]

I think the future of smash could be great if they really embraced the fact that it's a platform fighter, rework characters to have mechanics that are based on stage control like rivals, give every character walljumps, doing this will definitely make the next game have less characters and some characters might not be even able to fit into the stage control idea but it seems like a good shake up right?

[@jonathancangelosi2439]

Thought it was worth mentioning that “ultimate” doesn’t just mean “best,” it also means “final.” This makes it quite a fitting title, as Sakurai’s final smash game.

[@NuiYabuko]

The Japanese subtitle is Special though.

[@Antonio-is2cn]

@@NuiYabuko So does the updated version of Fatal Fury 2 called Fatal Fury Special and Melee in Japanese has the subtitle "Deluxe"

[@jaxonblair8440]

In the next Smash, I want a Subspace Emissary 2 (or a good and fairly similar spiritual successor to the SE) above all else, cutscenes and all. I’d sacrifice heavily in other game aspects for it, within reason

[@megasoniczxx]

As unrealistic as it sounds, i've always wanted them to try doing something like a version select so you could go between the different versions and fight mechanics of every smash bros from 64 to Wii U/3DS complete with the physics and quirks each game had.

[@Antonio-is2cn]

So Super Smash Bros gets it's very own Hyper Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo Anniversary version? Sounds insane! lol

[@decadentgamer3108]

Seeing content about Smash Ultimate is always awkward for me personally because I admit that I haven't played Ultimate all that much in comparison to Melee. Don't get me wrong, Ultimate had everything from a roster perspective considering it brought back all the cut characters from Melee while bringing in some new characters, some of whom many of us were wanting to see like Banjo/Kazooie, and Hero from the Dragon Warrior series (I'm talking Nintendo/Nintendo-related characters, not the 3rd party lol) but I always remember that the reason why I hardly went back to Ultimate is because while the roster was decent, the single player was lacking. There was still no adventure-style campaign mode and honestly, not all of us are competitive online players so for fans like myself, there just isn't all that much to keep you in the game for long. At most play a few matches and then call it a day. And don't get me wrong, I understand that in the modern age of gaming, online is important and it can't be ignored in a game like this but for us casual single player people, it just sucks that they can't seem to give a best of both world type of deal. And like you, I felt like the true experience of Ultimate was seeing which character got in with their reveal trailer lol.But the fanfare was short-lived since the game modes were still lackluster. As for your ideas of a "new" Smash game where it might be better to just re-port Ultimate and add more to it, I think that's a good idea because let's be real here, graphically the game looks as good as it ever will get. What more could they do with the graphics? The last thing we want to see are these characters hyper-realistic looking. So yeah, Ultimate is probably the best a cartoony game like Smash is ever gonna look and even then, I'm personally not a fan of the lighting/shadowing of the game, it looks way too bright and slightly de-saturated and I much prefer the saturated but darker color palette style we had in Melee but I digress, unless they wanna change the lightning and shadows, there's no reason to make a new Smash game from the ground up. So treated Ultimate as the final game that just gets more additional stuff is definitely the best option on paper. On the section where you were talking about potentially seeing characters getting cut, that definitely is a sad thing to think about haha. When you showed the cast who you believe will stay and you eliminated Bayonetta, Simon/Richter, and Banjo, that stung lol To be honest, while I can see Bayonetta getting the axe, I would like to believe that Simon/Richter and Banjo would stay because of their history with Nintendo, especially Banjo whom people wanted in the game since Melee. And I mean if Pit can be considered a staple classic, why can't Banjo or Simon? So while I think that your prediction of the base roster is fair and plausible, I'd like to hold out hope that at least Simon and Banjo would stay but potentially be hidden characters but that's just me because especially with Banjo, he deserves to be seen as a staple since he was a fairly big icon in Nintendo's history (N64 baby lol).😋 That all said, I do agree that cutting the roster would really be for the greater good if it meant we'd get to have adventure and event modes again. But at the end of the day I don't think that the new game needs to top the roster Ultimate did. Ultimate was an experiment to se how many characters they could fit into the game and they certainly succeeded with that. But for a new game, I agree that it would be best to return to form with substance from the game modes and just how the characters played. Anyway another good analysis video, a nice followup to the Ultimate video!

[@gamejitzu]

That part at the end is pretty much the issue. I guess some are afraid of losing their favorite characters, so just having Ultimate forever seems viable. But no matter how long that would last, one year, there's gonna have to be a completely new Smash game. I don't really see the point of prolonging that, as even Sakurai talks about the future from the viewpoint of a new game. Smash is more than just it's roster, the game itself needs to evolve and innovate, and that can't really happen if it gets ported over and over. We're gonna have to say goodbye eventually, and that shouldn't happen by unplugging the life support of Ultimate's 4th port, but rather with pride and optimism in the next handful of years.

[@connorbeith3232]

I feel like a new director can also rid the series of some of Sakurai's odd biases like Sonic's representation being lackluster, not many nods to modern Kirby games (adding Bandana Waddle Dee would be a good start), lack of proper indie reps, overabundance of FE stuff, his odd fear of cutscenes being leaked online (the reason why World of Light has so little of them).

[@furious_pie466]

Honestly even though I love Sakurai i’ve always felt like he’s held back smash Bros in some ways obviously he brought it all together and I will forever be grateful for that but as you mentioned he’s done a poor job at representing some series has big biases to stuff like anything Kuby that he made oh fire emblem and his weird fear of things like cutscenes being posted on the Internet hold back The series from its full potential of course a new director could have his own problems with representation biases and random fears however I hope Nintendo recognises how big this series is and gets the right guy (also I Will never be able to sleep unless my boy sonic the hedgehog gets a better move set come on smash 6 I’m BEGGING YOUUUU-)

[@nhall129]

I definitely think the next title in the series has to reinvent a fair bit I think Ultimate effectively puts a bow on everything smash has been up until now I don’t think you can just 1up the game without it feeling like a port, and Ultimate escaped that perception, with 4 and Ultimate playing very differently But another title might struggle with that and gameplay might get stale The move that will keep the series fresh is definitely brand new redesigns for old classics And maybe even new reps for some franchises Samus is a common example and its apt, especially with Dread to pull from Link could have more included after BotW2, and they could add a Champion from the game or have a character that switches between them or Zelda calls on them Kirby could have a ton of stuff added from his new games The guest hype can be recaptured in the future so it’s a win/win really

[@Lucky_9705]

Keeping Lucario and Greninja on the roster makes a ton of sense. The two of them have a rivalry that is unmatched in the Smash community

[@ivrydice0954]

Wuh?

[@metaknightjudgesyoursins4710]

Keeping Sonic, Pac-Man, Ryu and Cloud but not Mega Man is a bit confusing to me. And don’t bring that “oh he’s not that popular” crap. He’s an iconic character and still is Capcom’s own mascot

[@Antonio-is2cn]

I also see Hero and Terry staying

[@kingkirby1394]

As underwhelmed as I was by how ssbu ended with its over saturation of rpg characters the hype factor sure will be hard to replicate and I think trying to figure what smashs future is post ultimate is incredibly important

[@NickMario1]

Same tbh, I think we might get a ultimate deluxe or a 3D smash game in like a few years or something

[@legendarydragon2564]

im a rpg guy and even i got tyred of dlc having almost exclusively rpg characters

[@Antonio-is2cn]

@@legendarydragon2564 "It's almost as if Smash is a Japanese game..."

[@sauzeefy]

cold-open into advert, very cool

[@ThatBugBehindYou]

The way Smash bros carries on is through story. Sakurai would have to be lobotomized or something because his pure contempt for people putting cutscenes on KZbin will prevent this from ever happening but if we started getting Smash games as stories, not just Brawl, actual intensely narrative driven stuff it would bring out so much hype.

[@RogueOmega]

Honestly, my biggest issues with Ultimate were as follows: .) Severe overrepresentation of some franchise, sever underrepresentation of others. Like, the game felt more like "Pokemon Vs Mario VS Fire Emblem, featuring other guest franchises" than it did a Smash Bros. roster. I get those three are, like, the most popular Nintendo franchises and stuff, but it's like Nintendo fails to remember that were it not for Marth and Roy appearing in Melee, Fire Emblem likely would have never caught on in the west like it did. And it's like, why do they insist on taking what precious few characters a franchise has left that could be made playable fighters and instead making them be Assist Trophies? Case in point, Krystal from the Starfox franchise. Out of the Starfox characters that could plausbily be made into new fighters, there were really only two: Krystal and General Scales. However, because Starfox Adventures was technically a Rare game, I don't think Nintendo has the licensing to use Scales, which only really left Krystal. However, now that she's been likely forever locked to Assist Trophy status, there really isn't anyone left to use for more Starfox representation. .) Certain choices for DLC characters felt more like either business transactions between companies or advertising for upcoming/recently released games than they did an attempt to add fan favorites. Like, I get that people were happy or at least excited to see Steve end up in Smash, but most of that excitement felt more like "I didn't ask for this guy, but I play his game so I'm at least OK with this". Honestly, it felt more like part of some sort of business agreement between Nintendo and Microsoft (since remember, they own Mojang). And then Byleth. We get it, you wanted people to buy Fire Emblem: Three Houses if they hadn't already. That doesn't mean you rob the fans of a limited slot for a new character just to use for a glorified advertisement. And the fact it was a character from a franchise that already had a lot of representation just rubbed salt in the wounds for a lot of people. At least they were able to make some decent picks for the rest of the DLC characters... .) World of Light honestly felt like it might have been initially intended to be the game's main focus before being forced to veer towards the competitive multiplayer side of things at some point in development. And it feels, at least to me, like a continuation of what began in Smash 4 where it felt like they really wanted to focus on Smash being a competitive multiplayer game at the expense of what gave games like Melee and Brawl the charm we loved so much. And seeing as supposedly Sakurai doesn't actually have as much sway over design choices (or character choices for that matter) as he used to (I've heard that Nintendo themselves call most of the shots on that these days), who knows how much more WoL could have had to it. .) It follows Smash 4's trend of "You barely have to do anything to unlock all the characters". Yes, in Brawl you could unlock most of the characters by beating Subspace, but unlocking them without at least obtaining them in the story still took a bit of effort. In Smash 4 and Ultimate, you're fighting a new character to unlock seemingly after every match. You'll have them all in no time, to the point it actually takes LONGER to unlock all the character by getting them in Ultimate's story mode than it does just fighting matches. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's no surprises left in Smash these days outside of character reveal trailers. I miss the days where you either had to find out for yourself who was and wasn't in the game, or keep tabs on a special website that would slowly reveal the different characters as the game neared launch (and even then, it wouldn't reveal all of them). In summary, it felt to me like Ultimate was a desperate attempt by the Smash Bros so many of us knew and loved to break out from the shell of "esports tournament geared multiplayer fighter with Nintendo and some third party characters" that it's become imprisoned in, but was ultimately unable to do so.

[@NuiYabuko]

@sonic 1995 Not difficult when basically every game features a new set of characters. Not to mention many of them are Echoes.

[@SquidwardSmellsGOOD734]

I think we’re in a really awkward phase where Smash Bros’ future is uncertain. There’s so many questions, but there’s really no concrete answer to any of them. And because of this, I really don’t know what to feel. I suppose we will have to wait until any signs of Smash Bros news seem to be on the horizon.

[@jxbermudez]

Omg I'm technically in this video (I'm one of the dudes jumping for joy at banjos reveal lol) great video man lmao

[@vivaofficial7372]

I would actually love a moba with a Smash (General) set piece. Two teams, 6v6 fight for the properties of the different universes and certain reconizable landmarks from said worlds and a mode where king of the hill becomes King of the Smash ball. Both teams fight with a certain amount of stock, and whoever remains can win the game for the their team. On the maps, You would have Tabuu, Giga Bowser, Master Hand and Crazy pop up and each give a different buff or do something to help the team who defeated them. And secret "trophies" to find if you're in the wild. The trophies will give you and your team buffs..I can go on and on but you get the idea lol

[@elemomnialpha]

One of the things I don't get about all the doom and gloom is that it's based primarily on a dubism if it was never localized as "Ultimate" but something different like "Legacy" as "Everyone is here" does fit the Japanese "Special" as a potential one time thing while nowhere near implying a finale And actions speak louder than words when it comes to Sakurai, he said "don't expect many newcomers" for a game that added the highest number of new characters, how he always says every Smash game will be his last, but then he comes back for the next one, I think people are blowing possible cuts WAY out of proportion "characters may not come back" isn't synonymous with "next game will have less characters overall" like so many people act like it is, Brawl cut characters but still had more than Melee, characters aren't exactly cut for no reason as that's a potential lost sale to someone who bought a previous game for that character From a business perspective they need to do something that will get people who bought Ultimate to them buy the next one and see cutting characters and changing movesets as a surefire way to loose sales rather than get more as people who already enjoy how their main plays aren't going to want to change games if they change said main too much and if they're main gets cut with no one resembling a replacement also probably aren't going to move up Considering Ultimate was basically a rushjob operating in a similar way as the Melee to Brawl changes (as Ultimate 's biggest flaw is hands down it's single player offerings) giving it a longer dev cycle and more focusing on single player stuff rather than competitive would be the best path to move forward "Expecting Dante or Master Chief" so disappointment, expecting characters with no real chance

[@moister3727]

I'd like the next Smash to be a sort of a reboot of sorts. The base is there, the formula works. People just need a compelling package and a real reason to buy the game. Not just the characters, but maybe something else entirely new, like new modes exploiting Smash mechanics, I don't know.

[@backup368]

"Smash Bros. is the boiling pot of gaming communities." It's the echo chamber of the Nintendo fanboy bubble.

[@AwesomeMooseSmile]

I think there should definitely be roster cuts, but I always think people cut way too much character just for the sake of cutting characters. Usually smash only cuts a handful of them and does a good job at replacing them with better characters..... usually. I think getting rid of some of the characters that not too many people are interested in or don't have interesting movesets or mechanics and replace them with better newcomers would be a much better strategy, and a good idea for the next smash game is to temporarily cut the roster back down to about 20 characters, but then reveal who the returning veterans will be alongside new characters in reveal trailers.

[@alexpotts6520]

Honestly, Sakurai's new KZbin channel (which is really good by the way!) makes me wonder whether he might be thinking about retirement, and he wants to pass his wisdom onto future generations before he does

[@NuiYabuko]

He's like 52 or something.

[@tape2263]

It’s crazy because as I’ll never forget how I felt seeing Sonic being announced for brawl way back, I wouldn’t be surprised or mind if the next smash is Nintendo characters only again. It’d still be fun.

[@SaddieMoon]

I still don’t think Sonic was rushed, at least not entirely. As Sakurai says himself that Sonic was designed like he was in Sonic 1, a very basic moveset that you get a lot of mileage from mastering the gameplay. The only thing I would say that was rushed about him was the excess spin dash special, up smash, and down throw. But that’s it.

[@TheMack625]

I heard that the fighters in Smash are meant to be "toys", hence certain inconsistencies with how they may act. Many dislike Bowser being just a monster, Mario being dated, DK and Diddy just being basic primates, Sonic using Spin Dashes, Daisy being the most literal clone, and Ganondorf still being a Falcon clone. I enjoy all these fighters myself, but wouldn't object to seeing them improved upon.

[@SaddieMoon]

@@TheMack625 I wouldn’t either. Sonic just feels fine.

[@tsukimaru131]

I believe that Smash would need a soft reboot for it to remain feasible as a development project. They need to go back to basics and re-introduce every character over a long period of time. That would allow them to re-work characters that suffer from poor adaptations ever since they were introduced (looking at you Ganondorf), but also to refresh the fanbase expectations towards the game as a casual/competitive game. They're just at the crossroads where they either go the greedy way and re-release Ultimate as a "new game" with a flashy new title with less charaters, or they make something we've never seen/ expected before.

[@RyGoesPOP]

I'd be fine with a Deluxe Port of Ultimate for The Next Console Bring back Boss Rush, Add in a couple new characters like Crash, 2B, and Sol Badguy, a few New Echo Fighters for Donkey Kong, Inkling, and Robin, Improved Online, and evenly Sakurai taking a Supervisory Role while he works on a different project if he felt comfortable doing it