The WORST Smash Bros. Game

[@NewGabeOrder]

20:24 You mean, five. It depended on the Classic Mode level you played.

[@doggifu]

Oops

[@the1andonlydrmixxel]

💯th like lul

[@SneaktheWolf]

Also, broken stage buolder

[@liammcnicholas918]

Fun fact: The intensity scale was taken from Kid Icarus Uprising.

[@hhhh82user]

⁠​⁠@@liammcnicholas918wasnt kid icarus uprising released after brawl? unless youre talking about smash 4 and not brawl

[@marioisawesome8218]

the most criminal feature is the touch screen doesn't let you press the menu buttons.

[@Patodeagua213]

For real

[@Zenitsu-zq4pj]

This is still a thing in Ultimate

[@rdowg]

​@@Zenitsu-zq4pj and it's just as infuriating The entire UI was CLEARLY designed for the touch screen

[@LeopoldLitchenstein]

Switch does the same thing and it annoys me so much

[@Davian2073]

I was about to try to get the game now that I have a 3DS, but now I hate it

[@Gabowsk]

"Smash without substance" is another term for Tinder

[@zero1zerolast393]

Otherwise, soulless

[@LiarJudas666]

not the way i use it

[@Mew2Win]

BIackpiIIing

[@JuneMikaels]

Have you converted to our lord and saviour LightningMcQueen from hit series Cars 1, Cars 2 and Cars 3.

[@GuckFoogle-pk6ns]

So would Grinder be "smash bros without substance", with the emphasis on Bros?

[@williamreed3739]

I respectfully disagree on the trophy part. For me, a kid who really only got Brawl in middle school for Sonic and wasn’t super familiar with most of Smash’s franchises, the trophies were such a fun and addictive way to learn about the other series in the game. I was introduced to so many characters and stories through the trophies. Even if the models themselves are downgraded I’d rather have that way than not have them at all. It’s like you said it made Smash feel like a video game museum of sorts. I feel like I’d be a lot less salty about Ultimate getting rid of them if the spirits at least had a paragraph description for each character like the trophies do. That’s a little thing that would’ve gone a long way. Either way I get your point but I still deeply miss trophies

[@drew8235]

Yeah, trophies were one of the best parts of Melee back in the day. I wish they had kept up with that over the years. The spirit system in Ultimate is a bummer.

[@amadeus.7436]

I feel like Spirits with just a description and listing some notable games they've been in would've been perfectly fine

[@ianb.2575]

Brawl trophies were still really good, just a bit of a downgrade. There are more of them, so that can make up for it depending on how you feel about quantity vs quality

[@markymark443]

Yea but that was Brawl and this is Smash 4 lol. I will say though that Brawl’s requirement to collect 250 trophies to unlock R.O.B. was rather obnoxious (yes I’m aware you could also play 160 offline vs. matches but I had no irl friends to play with and ain’t nobody got time for that, and I’m also aware you can unlock through SSE but then you don’t get the iconic challenger approaching cutscene and unlock match so it’s significantly less cool for that alone).

[@scottchaison1001]

​@@ianb.2575Nah, they weren't a downgrade.

[@Hamantha]

To defend New Pork City feeling like it’s been designed by a child, that’s incredibly lore accurate and fitting to the idea of New Pork City

[@rubberballoonlover5471]

& Porky normally doesn't think too far ahead.

[@HaughtyToast]

It really did feel like the 3ds got the better modes to entice people to buy it since they knew competitive players would obviously favor the one that was compatible with the Gamecube controller. Even StreetSmash, despite having pretty much nothing in common with the main gameplay, was far more fun than what Smash Wii U was offering.

[@Rot8erConeX]

Like, I wish that Ultimate got Smash Run (and maybe Smash Tour just because why not) but like, if it did, would there be any reason to go back to Smash 4?

[@tbc1880]

Yeah on the 3ds its still fun and has its moments

[@Patodeagua213]

Smash 3ds was better and is more fun to look back

[@HaughtyToast]

@@kylespevak6781 Weirdly enough the competitive smash scene recently caught up to the rest of the fighting game community and realized that different controllers suit different characters better due to which inputs they most commonly use. So we're probably going to see less of the Gamecube controller going forward.

[@HaughtyToast]

@@kylespevak6781 There's a lot more that goes into it than that. The Wii remote had some button mapping issues with Smash. It's certainly usable but not ideal for the quick inputs that the c stick allowed which is what you want in competitive. Also keep in mind that until relatively recently 3rd party controllers for Nintendo consoles tended to be worse quality-wise (lot's of drifting and button sticking) than the Nintendo products themselves. The Switch console completely changed that. I bought a Switch pro controller, used it twice, and had it start drifting. 3rd parties are specifically choosing to make their controllers sturdier now because of that nonsense. It's no surprise that people have started branching out now over the years prior.

[@wideeyedwiseguy7492]

Smash 4 isn’t necessarily a bad game just an obsolete game. Like you said there’s just nothing to go back to when compared to the other games. Which sucks because this was the only smash game I stuck with through its entire community hype cycle. I’ll always have a soft spot for it because of that though.

[@reynoldskynaston9529]

Yeah ultimate basically does everything smash 4 does but better and with more content. Brawl still has subspace emissary and melee is melee. 64 gets a pass since it was the first. There’s not really any reason to play smash 4 these days.

[@poleon2003]

@@reynoldskynaston9529 yeah kinda why my Wii U nowadays kinda collects dust nowadays like the only time I would use it is to play Wind Waker HD or Twilight Princess HD but aside from that the switch has kinda made the Wii U worthless for me

[@Underworlder5]

@@poleon2003 i still use the wii U for the virtual console. honestly have more fun with the virtual console titles than the actual titles for the console

[@Masked_Mastermind]

@@reynoldskynaston9529 For me, I'd say there's no reason to go back to Smash Wii U, but with Smash 3DS I can still get some enjoyment with it that I wouldn't get with the other games, like its unique Classic mode (which is way better than the Wii U version's Classic mode, and I'd even go as far as to say that it's better than Brawl's Classic mode since it doesn't drag on for too long or make you play the same minigame twice), its All Star mode (which I'll admit isn't perfect, but it's at least better than Brawl's and Ultimate's All Star modes imo), and Smash Run which might arguably be my most favorite game mode in all of Smash.

[@kingstarscream3807]

@@reynoldskynaston9529 Except if you want to play Smash on the go with a 3DS. Because the Switch isn't a true portable. Imagine playing that on a bus.

[@anothenblue2630]

Fun fact regarding the ported trophy models thing: Brawl Zelda characters were also lifted from TP entirely. You can even give them original TP textures with no effort because the UVs are all left untouched.

[@laqueeshous1813]

the uvs are slightly different as most of the texture maps for combined into one giant texture, and his hair is a slightly lighter color, but the textures are mostly the game

[@anothenblue2630]

@@laqueeshous1813 I distinctly recall them being the same. Still, the models are barely changed. It's probably why Ganondorf and Link are some of the only characters in the game who use vertex animations for expressions rather than swapping faces.

[@laqueeshous1813]

@@anothenblue2630 yea that is the reason, the polygons themselves are virtually unchanged, the uvs were just slightly altered so they could combine the textures into one sheet

[@artimist0315]

I mean they probably did the same thing for Minecraft in Ultimate, at least that how it seems for how terribly out of place steve and the stage look in the game.

[@anothenblue2630]

@@artimist0315 they did, but that not only lets you effortlessly use your own Minecraft skins, but it's also an artistic choice like Mr G&W

[@songoku2711]

To this day, I will always love Smash 3DS/Wii U. Better time in my life, very nostalgic for me. Was the last Smash game I loved before my health took a spiraling decline in my 20s. I will always love my memories of enjoying Smash 4 and playing it with friends.

[@stardustsdd]

I hope Trunks comes from the future to give you the medicine you need. Dark jokes aside though, I hope you get better.

[@ButterfingerBB]

​@@stardustsdd You are a star. Don't change.

[@aclstudios]

Smash 3DS came out the day my ex officially dumped me. So for me it's the exact opposite- brings back some awful memories, and to this day I still have trouble playing it. Ultimate is what got me back into Smash and gave me a second chance.

[@jonahabenhaim1223]

What about smash bros ultimate and Brawl?

[@DoublemanFM]

You're forgetting the worst part about Wii U Classic: the AI is programmed to ALWAYS prioritize striking the player if they're within a certain range instead of other CPUs, which means that if you're playing against 7 CPUs, you're basically playing a 1 vs 7 with friendly fire on. Most 9.0 deathless runs devolve into praying you get low player count games and then being forced into a 6-man Smash on a stage small enough where all of the CPUs are in their player aggro range and then dying to a stage hazard.

[@smashfan9549]

Same thing in ultimate. Trust me

[@frost2094]

That AI is from Melee.

[@murphmariotwopointoh7714]

I feel like Smash Run needs to return with more and improved content, it's a shame it got cut from Ultimate. Edit: There's also the fact that some characters got very little balance changes. Mario managed to make it out fine, but poor Jigglypuff was left in the dust.

[@Vexal50]

If I remember correctly, didn't Jigglypuff not get any changes at all, ignoring the universal changes that a few patches made?

[@murphmariotwopointoh7714]

@@Vexal50 That would be correct, yeah. It's especially bad since they're one of the worst characters in the game.

[@Rhubarb120]

It really should come back. It was so fun, despite it never even being finished the way it was intended. When the mode was first revealed, they claimed that you could find and interact with other players while exploring the map, but that feature was taken out before launch. It's a shame, because that is such a great idea, and was used to great effect in City Trial from Kirby Air ride, which Smash Run was heavily based off of.

[@Wiki1184]

It’s definitely the one game in the series that I have no reason to go back to after the sequel came out. It kind of feels like a beta version of Ultimate.

[@madness9651]

Actually, its the opposite. Ultimate is Smash 4 with Asia Grinder Gacha mechanics added and the majority of new characters hidden behind a hefty DLC paywall. The leap from Brawl to Smash 4 felt much more satisfying, they really fixed all criticism people had towards the slowed down gameplay. Sure once you've paid for Ultimate, you will never go back. But you probably didn't ever go back on the other ones either. I didn't go back either, too. But a game should first and foremost be evaluated in its historical context and Smash 4 was an improvement, Smash Ultimate is a continuation.

[@Wiki1184]

@@madness9651 I wasn’t bashing Smash 4 at all, I’m just saying that once Ultimate came out I can’t think of a reason to go back to it. I’ve gone back to the other games plenty in the franchise because they have their own unique features, modes, gameplay that give me a reason to play them over Ultimate. Then again, Ultimate is pretty much the equivalent of a “Definitive Addition” of 4.

[@edcellwarrior]

It doesn’t have input buffering. That alone makes it worth coming back to compared to Ultimate.

[@artimist0315]

Personally I just prefer the feel of the game, the characters feel more different and a lot of the weird moveset choices in ultimate make much more sens in that engine. I also really, really like smash run, which is in my opinion very underrated because it wasn't on Wii U.

[@thehuman2cs715]

​@madness what do you mean with "Asia gacha grinder" mechanics buh

[@Mepphy99]

"it's not like rehashing green hill is not faithful" made me laugh more than it should

[@theAmazingJunkman]

Smash Run and customs with friends were far-and-away the most fun I’ve ever gotten out of Smash 4.

[@CadDriftarus]

Thisssss. I rarely got to participate in Smash Wifi as a kid, and didn't have many friends growing up, but Smash Run was the mode we _all_ enjoyed when I was in Highschool.

[@FriendlyNeighborhoodNoob]

The main thing I love about Smash 4 is the artstyle... specifically the Wii U artstyle (the cartoony look that the characters have, the shadows, the character icons, everything about the artstyle just attracts me). I also find some of the stages in the game memorable along side Smash Run. The last thing I adore about Smash 4 is the shop (the whole concept where you are going to the store and going to buy a minifigure is just really adorable). Other than that..... yeah, the other games in the series are better.... although, I really liked the custom moveset aspect of the game (even if it was tedious)

[@TheMack625]

I agree with the aesthetic.

[@Psyche_TH]

I mostly agree with you and the following paragraph is more of a rant at the video than you. The thing about the custom moves was that they were never meant to appeal to players with a 'main'. They had a deliberate genericness to them because the player was expected to explore the roster and play with a multitude of different fighters, and the custom moves served the function of making characters flexible so that you could pick somebody based on you liking how they look or because they represent your favourite game franchise or they're just so darn interesting, not because they're meta. Once you picked the character, you'd quickly see what their default strengths and weaknesses are and could then modify them to fit your preferred playstyle. You might love Ganondorf's whole lord of darkness and everything evil thing but hate that he moves so slow, or you could be a fan of the blue blur but prefer for Sonic to hit hard than to traverse the stage fast, and the custom moves let you do that for the most part however they symbiotically rely on stat equipment which is why those two are always either on or off together. Then you could go to another fighter knowing that most of the same ideas are there too so it's already familiar and you can set up another loadout quickly and easily. Plus, it gave you less to memorise. Sure, the full cast getting ×3 totally unique, functionally different special moves sounds fun to use, but it'd be a pain to fight against because there'd be so much to memorise; competitive players would be capable of doing that but complain about it and have the option disabled anyway, while casual players whom the game is actually meant for would find it confusing and too inconsistent to play in any sort of relaxing way. I don't know if Doggifu is a Smash celebrity or a tourist, but either way he seems like he picked a main, stuck with it and is now complaining about lack of variety, when the whole point was to jump from character to character on a whim while not taking the whole thing too seriously.

[@geminiguy6032]

Brawl was hands down the most impactful smash game for me despite all its flaws. At the time, it seemed like it majorly stepped up its visuals and roster and I had replayed subspace emissary at least 100 times. It just felt like so much heart was put into making it the greatest game it could be and solidified my love for the series.

[@PeruvianPotato]

Nah fr. Even now, Brawl is still my favorite video game of all time for MANY reasons but if I were to name one: It was more than a game, but an experience that created many fond memories that no other game has been able to recapture since and I've played quite a diverse selection of games over the years.

[@GuckFoogle-pk6ns]

I too have a soft spot for Brawl, it came out when I was in middle school, and was the first game I ever followed the "hype cycle" for, I remember checking Smash Bros Dojo EVERY day, and using it to listen to the stage bgm they put up on there. Subspace Emissary was everything and more I wanted out of Melee's campaign. The level editor, while very limited and simple, was great for making stages to mess around on with your buddies. I had sleepovers with the boys where we'd try to get all the trophies and unlockables, co-oping through the campaign on hardest difficulty, and just messing around in versus. The rudimentary netplay felt so novel and futuristic at the time, as someone who grew up on N64 and Gamecube. We didn't know anything about tech skill, or why tripping was bad, we were just stoked to play "Melee but with more stuff".

[@FerinitheBloodHusky]

64 was my first smash game, but brawl was my first favorite smash game

[@LiveTwinReaction]

The competitive part of brawl has a lot of problems but the casual play was so good. Mostly because it was ofc the first game to come out with Wifi so you could play with players worldwide all night if you wanted to. Ofc everyone knows how notorious nintendo wifi is with lag and there were some really laggy lobbies but most of the time it was fine, and a lot of fun. I still remember "taunt parties" with all the new taunts each character got added and everyone would gang up on the guy who breaks up the party lol. It was kind of weird that you could feel like you've made friends with people even though you couldn't type or talk to them at all, but it was fun.

[@ModernAegis]

I knew before I even clicked on this video that it was gonna be either 4 or Brawl. I'm so glad it wasn't Brawl.

[@anothenblue2630]

Brawl is godawful, but at least it's not obsolete, which is way worse. You can go back to Brawl for SSE nostalgia or to torture yourself, but the only thing 4 has to offer is Smash Run on an otherwise inferior version of the game.

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

​@@anothenblue2630 Or because there are other aspects of it to enjoy, jackass

[@leonasty69]

​@@anothenblue2630 torture? alright, the game is a horrid mess competitively, (hello meta knight) but subspace is really good like you said, playing it with friend and items is a blast, coin launcher slaps, and the single player section is actually pretty decent, even without SSE

[@anothenblue2630]

@@leonasty69 It's awful to play even casually (Meta Knight being broken isn't even why it's a bad game competitively) and that includes SSE. Aside from how boring everything is there, from aesthetics to level design, your movement speed is gutted for no reason. It's especially noticeable if you play Sonic or if you play SSE in PM where they removed mode-specific attributes.

[@leonasty69]

@@anothenblue2630 oh yeah I forgot that the physics and the snail's pace everyone moves at are terrible. i will say that i've grown to like the game's aesthetic and the strange vibe it goes for, but not the washed out art style that was used, if that makes sense

[@naruconas]

When it comes to trophies, I'm much more interested in the little blurbs that come with them and gives some background My biggest problem with spirits are the direct lack of that and part of why i prefer the trophies. They might be asset rips, but its fun to learn about the characters and sometimes get trivia you wouldn't know otherwise plus it feels great being able to fill out the collection. Seriously the fact that not only do they not tell you a little about them and they are expendable making them a pain to collect, but don't even tell you what franchise they're a part of is why I do not care about them at all in ultimate. Also they're just slightly better stickers from brawl which no one cared about.

[@Wiggimus]

I honestly hated the Spirits in Ultimate. In no way did they make up for the complete omission of trophies.

[@ButterfingerBB]

Completely agree

[@Duskool]

It's so dumb that the Spirits don't have descriptions and origin game, because Ultimate has the biggest crossover character number, but i guess it wasn't important enough to write a small paragraph on who a character was. Especially because spirits are just JPEGs, Trophies were actual models, in some cases built from scratch because the original series wasn't in 3D (the EarthBound ones specifically were so cool to me, because when else are they gonna make official 3D models of things like Dungeon Man or Ramblin' Mushroom?)

[@ric4455]

something i very vividly remember was watching a video posted back when spirits mode wasnt revealed yet and they literally predicted it being stickers

[@clayzulah]

Trophies peaked in Melee because they were basically a showcase of what iconic Nintendo characters were going to look like in an exciting post-N64 era of 3D gaming. There was a huge novelty to it that I don't think any of the other Smash games could have recaptured (though they could have tried harder than just throwing a bunch of old assets together and calling it a day)

[@Psyche_TH]

It's a matter of perspective. While Melee looked forward, Brawl celebrated the legacies established so far. Melee hyped up the future while Brawl reminisced on the past. Brawl was definitely way bigger on the history aspect, because on top of trophies you had the chronicle and the 'masterpieces' game demos (which, as an aside, if you didn't already know, actually contained the full content of LoZ:OoT with a harsh time limit slapped on so the scope was huge). I think reusing models and presenting them as they were in their original games fits perfectly with that. You're diving into the annals of history. It could be a generational thing. When I played, I had no idea what most of the franchises were and I really appreciated getting to see the variety of graphics that the games industry had gone through; I didn't need or want the trophies to look as up-to-date as possible because that was what the rest of the game, being playable, was for. So I guess what I'm saying is no, they shouldn't have tried harder because you're assuming they were pushing in one direction when they were going another. You say yourself that the other Smash games couldn't have recaptured Melee's novelty in this regard, and clearly they agreed with you so they took a different approach. I'm not sure it's fair to criticise them for not meeting your expectations when you already feel that they were doomed to fail.

[@Dekomata]

I still remember primarily being a 3DS player for smash 4 since I didn't own a Wii U (that was my brother). Spent so many hours mainly just honing my skills and getting the most out of it. But ever since Ultimate became a thing, there's really no reason to go back to. Which is pretty sad. You've said it yourself. Probably doesn't help that Ultimate is the Super Turbo to Smash 4's Super (to those that don't know what i mean, its like SFII. once SSFIIT came out, there was barely any reason to go back to SSFII).

[@CassiusStelar]

You said the same comparison twice, why not give it a more smash specific comparison. It's like playing Super Smash Flash after the release of Flash 2 or Crusade

[@leoperd3487]

I actually like how they implemented The Great Cave Offensive; it perfectly recaptures all the frustration that game mode gave me as a kid!

[@hisuianzoroark5726]

It's a great cave that many people find offensive

[@WuhHuh]

it’s the cave that’s great at making people who play on it say offensive things out of frustration

[@FluffyMoni4367]

I really like great cave offensive, my favorite area is the one I’m pretty sure everyone else hates, Old Tower, I love how labyrinthian it is and all the variety of challenges it has to offer

[@Guest-qo5nl]

Honestly I fucked with custom moves

[@cyruscrompton8221]

Some of the custom moves are pretty fun, my favorite being Megaman's side B turning into a bubble making him a monster

[@MarioLuigi25]

His Up Special that uses Beat is also one of the best recovery moves ever. And the down special that uses Skullman’s weapon is also really cool. Some of the special moves are indeed really cool

[@squeakboy3666]

i looooved how almost all of megaman's moves were special weapons and how his custom specials worked the way they did in their home games instead of just being reskins of each other 😌 megaman was one of the only fighters whose source material i was familiar with when smash 4 came out, so knowing exactly where all of those moves came from was fun for me

[@renegadeguardian]

Dear god I always hated Smash 4's title. Like come on, Super Smash Bros for WiiU/3DS? That was really the best they could come up with? How lazy can you be with your game titles?

[@juneru2]

I love that Smash 4 introduced a buncha unorthadox newcomers like Villager, Duck Hunt, and Wii Fit Trainer. Bringing in alot of third-parties like Pac-Man, Mega Man, and Cloud was also awesome.

[@laser90]

Villager isn't really unorthodox. At the time, Animal Crossing was decently popular, so an Animal Crossing rep was definitely in. Sakurai had previously said that Animal Crossing would be a very weird game to make a rep of, but he also said that Pac-man'll never make it into Smash, yet here we are.

[@doom3926]

Gameplay wise I think Smash 4 is what Brawl should’ve been if they wanted to go for a slower pace, cause Smash 4 felt like a middle ground between Smash 64 and Brawl. Otherwise, these days I see Smash 4 as another instance of the first version of a fighting game before they move onto an updated version (Mortal Kombat 3 to Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 as an example) in this case Smash Ultimate. Obviously not everything from Smash 4 made it over but it didn’t have to. I do think Smash Run should’ve been preserved though, without a story mode a mode like that where you can fight a bunch of legacy video game enemies was a great idea and it’d be cool if they brought it back and added to it with stuff like a Survival Mode where you gotta roam the map fighting as many of these enemies as you can while getting your buffs, meanwhile the enemies are also getting stronger over time, stuff like that to make it more arcady, it can still keep the original intended version of the mode though of course.

[@jamesbeighley2257]

The ONLY reason to put brawl above smash 4 is subspace and the stage builder, but smash 4 generally has better gameplay which puts it above brawl for me. The single player content is completely lacking in ultimate as well so that's a wash. The main reason 4 is obsolete today is because ultimate is basically just a better version of it. I think we will see this going forward in the smash series where sequels are basically just building off the last version rather than being their own thing.

[@franksterprankster9771]

No brawl is also above 4 with casual gameplay, has better event modes, better realism, better music, and I can keep going.

[@Baconator2558]

​@@franksterprankster9771Brawl's artstyle is at least questionable, and the majority of Brawl's music is _in_ 4, so I have no clue where you're coming from there.

[@LillyWhiteFairy]

"only" Brawl has a better classic mode. Its stages are superior. (Nothing in it is even fair to compare to the travesties that are 4's stages and hazards) the ai was more fair. (As another thread op pointed out, they'd rend to gain up on the player) and it had a huge variety of challenges to complete which gave more of a reason to keep playing. You know, actually having stuff to do for single player? And the gameplay in brawl wasn't bad. The floaty feel it had was alright. Not competitive friendly but smash wasn't really meant to be anyway.... Yeah, subspace isn't the only reason pal. Here's a little something though: The annoying edge hogging fix is the ONLY true advantage 4 has over brawl.

[@LillyWhiteFairy]

Also ultimate "lacking" in single player? Aside from having a far more interesting classic mode system with new bosses, it also has the spirit board which has a huge variety of challenges and wol. Yes it may pale compared to brawl's adventure mode but it's still pretty fun. Plus is an insane improvement over the empty void that is 4's single player.

[@onemanjam519]

Playing smash 4 competitive was such a weird fever dream of a time. From custom moves to arguing over the amount of stocks, it felt very flavor of the week, especially when DLC came out. However, man is that bayo section justified, the energy of my local felt drained when every 3rd match in bracket was a bayo you never heard of but would take you down to the LAST hit. Good times :)

[@febreeze4655]

i still think that custom moves were one of the most fun concepts smash ever introduced and im still kinda sad they aren't in ultimate. spirits dont hit the same

[@anothenblue2630]

@@hdjd2saucy screw balancing, the overwhelming majority of them were simply boring. They were variations of "more power, but slower," "faster, but weaker" and an occasional random effect, but they reused animations anyway. Where is Shinespark for Samus? Hammer for Toon Link? Magic for Ganondorf? An ungodly amount of Pokemon moves?

[@Psyche_TH]

@@anothenblue2630 They were boring so that there could be some general consistency across fighters making it more familiar for you when you customise more than one and giving you less mental strain trying to remember everything when playing against them in a party game. You pick a heavy that hits hard and want them to have better recovery? You know you'll probably have the choice of an up special that goes higher but does no damage. You pick a spam-zoner but want to use them up close and/or for their projectiles to do something other than make number go up? You're in for a treat because they're almost bound to have a charge shot variant, or an even more powerful, slower moving version of the default charge shot they already have. While the Miis, Palutena, and to a lesser extent the other newcomers are all pretty cool, in the long run you wouldn't *really* want to open up Samus' specials and find that the alternative to firing your arm cannon at the enemy is running at them really fast, or that your possible replacements for Pikachu's little lightning move, big lightning move, exploding headbutt move and airdash move are other elements that do different things. Besides that, Sonic already struggles to find a special that doesn't involve him curling up into a ball, so what else can he do? Applying that to all of the characters just wouldn't be workable. Palutena etc have an excuse to stand out, but all the returning fighters getting three times the usual load of unique specials would be an overload.

[@anothenblue2630]

@@Psyche_TH half of them don't work anyway (like none of Falcon Punch alts are worth anything even though Warlock Punch has a genuinely decent sword version while a good chunk of specials have one objectively best version), so, this point is moot. Sonic by the time 4 came out did actually have a bunch of stuff to work with, but if he didn't, make something up. They've done enough of that already.

[@tristencox5914]

The fact that the gamepad was required for the stage builder was so stupid, and since my gamepad's battery stopped working, I couldn't even use it

[@ItsFayko]

I will forever love the fact that I was able to play Smash in school on my 3ds however, it always did feel like it lasted a lot of magic

[@whiteout2098]

seeing petilil be referred to as a baddie is something i never thought i'd ever hear

[@cinypolo5592]

Oh come on, I still like Smash Bros for 3DS and Wii U, sure both of them have flaws in them but they’re still really good games, I still play both versions today, and both smash games are still fun to play on. I wouldn’t really call in good conscience that both smash games on the 3DS and Wii U are “the worst entry in the series” or “the worst smash bros. games” either.

[@Khaymanssbm]

Name a worse smash game then 💀

[@MenacingTato69420]

@@cinypolo5592 GET OUUUUUUUUUUT!!! GET OUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT!

[@cinypolo5592]

@@MenacingTato69420 Nope.

[@DarkDuskStorm]

Genuinely curious- why do you rank 64 as the worst?

[@RushWheeler]

​@@cinypolo5592 still better because Kirby was actually good in that game

[@theidk4703]

I have a lot of memories with smash 4. And we all gotta admit,it’s had a huge legacy on smash. The 3ds version was the first ever handled smash game and the Wii U one was the first ever HD smash game. It was the first smash game to truly break the limits with adding characters. Yeah seeing solid snake and sonic the hedgehog in brawl was mind blowing,but this game truly broke limits with having Mario,sonic,mega man,Pac-Man,ryu and cloud all in the same game for the first time. It’s still one of the most ground breaking games ever because of it. Custom moves were admittedly really broken,but this is still the only smash game to have them. So overall,smash 4 imo,had a lot of great memories (and some very terrible ones admittedly)

[@madness9651]

This entire videos premise if wrong. Smash 4 was the best Smash. 1. 64 is just small. 2. Melee's metagame relies on a glitch. Sure it has its fans. I'm not one of them. Aside from that it's way too tipple-di-tip controls, moving the characters around just doesn't feel right. 3. For Brawl they fixed the controls, but slowed the game down too much. Subspace Emissary is ridiculously overrated. Was fun playing through once, never collected all trophies with the freaking trophy disc item because that was atrocious. Mediocre plattformer at best, and in that regard the worst I played on Wii, which had plenty of great plattformers. 4. Smash 4 fixed everything, just a really good game. The leap from Brawl in terms of gameplay quality is gigantic. 5. Ultimate is like Smash 4 with added Asia Grinder Gacha stuff to extend time needed to complete the game to disturbing levels - not that it doesn't take 500+ hours for a casual to collect all Trophies, Songs, Milestones and beat all gamemodes with all characters on highest difficulty already, no, now you can also level up your trophies and fight them, and you have to do so multiple times to complete the game. Its just too much. Without DLC you don't even get much new content compared to Smash 4, with all DLC you finally get what should have been the base game. While a fully upgraded Smash Ultimate might be the best title based on content, the leap from its predecessor is small and the price value a disaster! Smash 4 felt best at its time. Amiibo AI was something that really surprised me because I totally expected it to be a shitty gimmick, yet it worked really well.

[@kiliandrilltzsch8272]

i wish they brought back custom moves back in ultimate

[@thechugg4372]

@@madness9651 Smash 4 is definitely the best smash, especially because it's a lot more playable than Ultimate's shitty input buffer.

[@the757general2]

@@madness9651 If you're referring to wavedashing it's not a glitch. The dev team was aware of it during development and left it in. It got removed in Brawl for the same reason tripping was added; to give casuals a better chance at winning.

[@michaeleanthonyjr]

Anyone who actually considers Smash 4 as two separate games is needlessly overcomplicating things. They're designed to go in tandem with one another. They have the same DLC characters, they are programmed to play identically to the point that Ice Climbers had to be omitted from WiiU Smash because they couldn't be programmed properly on 3DS. They have the same roster with the same move pools and same balance changes between versions. It's like Pokémon Red/Green. We don't consider them as entirely separable packages because they're not designed to be.

[@olivialilacy8141]

The real cringe is the cowards that said it was a great game while it was relevant and the second Ultimate came out they claim Smash 4 is suddenly terrible

[@PublicEnemy442]

There should be a name for this phenomenon because it happens to a lot of game series. People loved Dark Souls 2 until Dark Souls 3 came out then everyone suddenly hated it. Everyone loved Grand Theft Auto 5 until the last 3 years and now it's apparently "the worst game in the series". Now everyone is shitting on Smash 4 as if those very same people didn't rack thousands of hours into the game back in 2015.

[@coboby3347]

I don't know that I'd call it "worse" than Smash 64, but I definitely revisit it less often. Smash 4 just feels like a lesser version of Ultimate, whereas at least 64 has its own unique appeal. Not much reason to go back to a game that doesn't have anything unique setting it apart from its superior sequel.

[@theoverseer393]

Smash 64 was my first smash game played, but not owned But somehow I found Smash Brawl and actually was able to buy it. I was fairly young when I played the original, so remembering the name is probably the only thing I was able to glean, and I wasn’t any the wiser

[@indecisitivity1832]

1:35 bro seeing that classic mode screen again after almost a decade brought back so many memories

[@fruitsnax546]

Ssb4 was supposed to get a story mode but sakurai got mad at ppl for leaking brawls story mode so he banned it

[@Psyche_TH]

Not even leaking, more like the general concept of the internet existing even after the game released.

[@Wakapat_YT]

They should have brought back custom moves for Ultimate

[@mondopatrick]

though i disagree with a lot of these points,i gotta say, im mad you didnt include the worst part, the part that started the most toxic trait in the franchise… DLC newcomer announcements

[@morningbowl3156]

“Nintendo please add Sora to Smash” “NOBODY ASKED FOR THIS”

[@lamontyaboy718]

I think dlc characters is a good concept but it should only be used for REALLY oddball choices. Most of the dlc in this game and ultimate feels like characters that could've and should've already been in the base game. But they were just withholding them to force us to keep paying more money towards the game.

[@mondopatrick]

@@morningbowl3156 literally dlc in a nutshell

[@mondopatrick]

@@lamontyaboy718 Honestly i hate the execution of DLC, theres no changing it but i hate how broken the characters are when they launch, and how split the community becomes

[@morningbowl3156]

@@mondopatrick “How broken the characters are when they launch” I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure most of the DLC characters have a 0-to-death combo on DK

[@ThatFanBoyGuy]

This may be a hot take, but prior to Ultimate, this was my favorite iteration of Smash. At the end of the day, fighters are meant to be play multiplayer, so I can forgive the lack of single player. To me, the character roster, especially the detail put into each character, forgives the sins of the rest of it. But I do agree that Melee was the height of trophies.

[@lasercraft32]

I liked Master Orders... not because the gameplay was especially interesting (though it was certainly more interesting and challenging than any other Wii U mode) but because it was like Master Hand/Crazy Hand was hiring a hitman to go assassinate people! My favorite will always be Dr. Mario with the black palette swap, with all-out attack stats. XD

[@rain-jl9zb]

lmao thats awesome

[@WC3fanatic997]

At the time I would have to say SB4 had a huge advantage; Smash Bros *_on a handheld._* Yea the Switch is more or less portable, even if not on the same level as the old 3DS, but this was almost ten years ago and I would say that it was *_HUGE_* for that alone. And honestly, for someone who has no more Nintendo consoles after growing up with them all my life, but does have some a couple 3DS lying around, SSB4 is a perfectly acceptable game to have for it. It's actually what got me to use my old 3DS after having it just sitting around for years (after my Ex got it for me, and me never really touching it much because I mostly did PC stuff). "Oh shit, I can play Smash Bros on this! What other games does it have?!" after the start of the year and realizing the eShop was going to close started me on to spending way more money than I should have revamping my 3DS arsenal about ten times over. Nowadays you can get factory sealed new versions for hella cheap; cheaper if you dont care about dirt and a bit of use. $20 for Smash Bros on the go? That sounds pretty good to me.

[@SuperMarioT]

I can 100% see this channel soar the more the topic coverage structure & editing style is maintained. Great video.

[@glowdonk]

There's also the problem of a lot of the new characters, including DLC, being either an overhyped clone of another character, or being so busted that they get nerfed to hell

[@Oceane1803]

I'm a casual player, and I had no issue with playing in the 3ds levels, even as a kid.

[@kindasomeviews]

Say what you will about Smash 4, imo it still had the most hype behind it for new characters. Everyone on the planet remembers Etika's (god rest his soul) reaction to Mewtwo and how nuts it was to have Cloud revealed. Im not a thematics type of type of guy; I have the most fun with abusing bullshit. Lord knows i abused tf out of the Crazy Hand rewards for the best loots ever with the home-run bat and Megaman's leaf shield grab to rob everyone's stocks, The Baeyo exploit for Trophy Rush with her N-Air is hilariously busted x)) But yeah i'll take this any day over Smash Ult's "oh you air dodged down off stage? ded"

[@marcdimartino9118]

I know the Switch deserved a Smash game ASAP, but I feel everyone could have used just another year or two before Ultimate hype, because Smash 4 hype was truly something else.

[@LloydTheZephyrian]

@@marcdimartino9118 Bayo did kinda kill a lot of the conpetitive hype for Smash 4. I believe EVO 2018 Grand Finals had both players just hold charged neutral b for the first 2 minutes.

[@marcdimartino9118]

@@LloydTheZephyrian Far from the days of Zero's Diddy Kong vs. Seagull Joe's Sonic 😭

[@phancanedoo013]

This one made realize so hard just how terrible my entry into video games really was. My first Smash Bros game was Smash for 3DS, my first Paper Mario game was Sticker Star, my first proper LoZ experience was that of Hyrule Warriors (technically Phantom Hourglass came before, but i was a dumb child back them and didn't know what quality is), my first Kirby game was Triple Deluxe (not saying it's bad, but it could have been better), my first Sonic game was Lost World (3DS!), and i know there are more examples, but i can't recall them all right now. Damn....

[@AmericanBrit9834]

TBF I actually found Sticker Star very fun

[@bartsneezin]

Nintendo had a pretty miserable software output from 2011-2016, so I feel bad for all the kids who spent the one part of their lives where they had time to burn on games, but burned that time on some of the most mid software in the company's history.

[@FedoraKirb]

I honestly feel that Triple Deluxe is a pretty great first entry, but to each their own.

[@FedoraKirb]

⁠@@bartsneezinLol, I’m kids from 2011-2016, that was the latter part of my pre-teen years. Funnily enough, this is the era where I actually got MORE invested in Nintendo, and discovered things like Nintendo Directs. Kirby: Planet Robobot was far and away the best game in the series at the time of its release imo, and is still an easy top 3 title in the franchise, 3D World was a solid game that I still like to revisit just a bit more than Odyssey, Smash 4 was pretty great (even if obsolete now due to Ultimate), Rhythm Heaven Megamix was the ultimate Rhythm Heaven game, and we got one of if not arguably the best Mario Kart game in 8 (besides the Battle Mode). I wasn’t into Zelda at the time but that’s also when we got Link Between Worlds and the N64 remakes. Also Pokemon Black and White and their sequels came out in this time, which are definitely up there as part of the franchise’s peak. Definitely not Nintendo’s greatest era on the whole, but the 8th Generation of Video Games wasn’t ALL bad for Nintendo and there were definitely plenty of gems.

[@bartsneezin]

@@FedoraKirb it wasn't terrible, but the volume of titles at the quality you listed here was like a downpour in the 6th (GBA and Gamecube) and 7th (wii and DS) generations. The 8th generation was like a sprinkler. There were also many worst-in-franchise games that gen, like Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival, Paper Mario Sticker Star, Starfox Zero, Metroid Prime Federation Force, Mystery Dungeon: Gates to Infinity, Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam, Mario Party 10, Mario Tennis Ultra Smash, Yoshi's New Island, China Robo Ziplash, Mario and Sonic Rio 2016, Wii Sports Club, and so on. Even if other gens only had a handful more S-tier titles than 8th gen did, no gen in nintendo's history had that many high profile flops

[@CarbynnKirb]

3DS is the better of the two because of Smash Run

[@pholleenphorrest1063]

So true.

[@theturtleking2454]

Seems like all the problems you had with stages were solely with the Wii U version. 3ds version really didn’t have most of those problems you mentioned so it’s probably why I remember it so fondly

[@espurrseyes42]

The 3DS version is a primary reason for why the Wii U version had its issues since there's no reason that stuff couldn't have been on the console version. Nevermind the unnecessary roster cuts that only happened because the 3DS couldn't handle transforming characters. The 3DS held back the Wii U.

[@jonahdewitt2158]

@@espurrseyes42 Honestly I'm grateful for that. I never liked the transforming characters. I much prefer them being separate. I still miss solo charizard with rock smash. Surprisingly, the only transforming character I have ever liked was mythra/pyra, because the duo complement each other so well, it actually feels like you have to use both of them, instead of just using the one half of a transforming character that you like.

[@kingstarscream3807]

@@espurrseyes42 The roster cuts were a good thing. Pkmn trainer is a dumb character and should be split up.

[@espurrseyes42]

@@kingstarscream3807 L

[@AnAverageGoblin]

@@espurrseyes42 all three starters would benefit for not sharing a slot and being tweaked and improved separately.

[@gatolf2]

Not saying I disagree with this video but when smash 4 came out and for most of its life, everyone talked about how brawl sucked. The only thing praised about brawl was the story mode… now that ultimate is out, we’re acting like we hated smash 4.

[@Psyche_TH]

It's different groups of people talking. Smash as a series and as a franchise has always been a family-friendly party game first and foremost. The people that enjoyed Brawl most were kids too young or protected to be on the internet and their parents that never really gave a damn in the first place as long as it made their loved ones happy. The people that hated Brawl the most were teenagers and young adults whom the game wasn't really for who took the whole thing way too seriously and/or just wanted to be negative about something to seem a bit cool or more in with a group that already had the opinion. The children that rightly loved the game have grown up now and can speak in defence of it when they couldn't before, and the YAs that tried to tear it to shreds are out of their emo phases and more willing to admit that maybe the real reason Meta Knight and tripping seemed like such a big deal was because they were deliberately treating the game oppositely to its intended purpose by trying to crush the enemy at all costs instead of just trying to have fun. More or less the same thing can be said of Sm4sh, although the criticism is generally more justified because while the developers had poured so much into the impressive technical aspects of fitting a Smash game onto a handheld or supporting up to eight players in one match they'd overlooked the substance of what makes the game fun to pick up and play to begin with. I'm sure in a few years you'll see more people warm up to how party-/local multiplayer-centric Sm4sh was, or fond narratives of how cool it was that they could bring (or sneak) their 3DSs into school to fight their friends on a more-or-less daily basis and maybe even a mention here and there that the way they dealt with Bayonetta was to not be an insufferable nuisance while playing her or just agreeing she was unfun and not using her at all. It's honestly only the competitive scene and 'serious' players that try to make any of the Smash games look bad and then perpetuate those ideas, which leads to videos like these, but that of course makes sense because you're unlikely to become a successful content creator by making videos for casual fans of some IP as by definition those fans aren't going to be seeking out your content.

[@pointyorb]

I'll call it the smash cycle, the opposite of the zelda cycle. The second most recent entry is the worst, the most recent entry is the second best, but will never be better than Melee because reasons

[@gatolf2]

@@pointyorb exactly. In my opinion, ultimate just is the best. Melee is a great competitive game but ultimate is more “noob friendly” but also not too easy to get good at. It’s a good balance. It has more characters by far and I know a lot of sweats like to act like that’s a bad thing but me and I feel like many others like the variety. The amount of matchups is seemingly endless and the balance, for a game with almost 90 characters, is really good. I can pick some of my pocket low tiers and never feel like any matchup is impossible. You can’t say that about any of the other games except, maybe, 64 but there was only a dozen characters in that one.

[@Mordecai02]

0:21 Really hit that "Well, TJ '''''Henry''''' Yoshi..." mood hard

[@SAClassHunterZero]

As someone who collected every special move without hacking, let me give you one piece of advice: Don't collect special moves without hacking. Why? D U P L I C A T E S. That's right: Duplicates. You can get the same moves over and over again, which means that the probability of getting new ones goes DOWN every time you get a new one. This is a hell that only Sakurai could make. That being said, the mod 'Smash Rebuffed' did an excellent job of trying to balance and revitalize every custom move in the game, and I highly recommend checking it out.

[@SoshiTheYoshi]

I may be the biggest supporter of smash 4, but I will give you props for wanting Duck Hunt in smash before their inclusion. Duck Hunt is awesome!

[@ranpan6082]

I do consider Smash 4 the weakest entry, no adventure mode and much of the single player content flat out stinks. I'll always preach for Brawl as the best in the series.

[@Masked_Mastermind]

@@ranpan6082I agree that Smash Wii U’s single player content sucks, but I actually find Smash 3DS’s single player content to be better than Brawl’s. Its Classic mode and All Star mode don’t feel like they drag on and take unnecessarily long to complete unlike with Brawl’s Classic mode and All Star mode, and while I do enjoy the cutscenes in Subspace Emissary, playing through that mode doesn’t feel that fun imo since most of its enemies and areas feel bland, and I find Smash Run to be a lot more enjoyable to play through compared to Subspace Emissary.

[@ranpan6082]

@@Masked_Mastermind Smash 4's Classic Mode is awful, it feels like nothing but glorified Multi-Man Melee matches. I liked the All-Star mode in Brawl, Smash 4's was super long with all the characters and it stunk that it didn't feel much like an endurance mode when your character is boosted. Isn't the Classic Mode for both Wii U and 3DS the exact same? Smash Run is a good mode, but it's not really single player and having to get multiple people with 3DSs and copies of the game makes it kinda limited. Wish the Wii U version got that instead of Smash Tour. Playing through Subspace Emissary for me was incredible, liked quite a lot of the original enemies. Yeah, the areas were a little bland, but the mode itself is just very unique because I don't think we'll ever get anything like it again.

[@Masked_Mastermind]

@@ranpan6082 Did you even watch the video? Smash 3DS’s Classic mode is completely different from Smash Wii U’s Classic mode and it’s a lot better than Smash Wii U’s Classic mode, and it only feels like a glorified Multi-Man Melee in the Wii U version’s Classic mode. Your character is also boosted in Brawl’s All Star mode which makes it really easy to KO your opponents, except that it takes longer to complete in Brawl since there’s more rounds that you have to go through in Brawl’s All Star mode whereas Smash 4’s All Star mode only has about 6 rounds and they go by quickly to prevent it from feeling too long. Also Smash Run IS a single player mode since you’re able to play it by yourself against a bunch of CPUs, and playing with other people is only optional just like how it’s optional to play with another person in All Star mode.

[@ranpan6082]

@@Masked_Mastermind My bad. I forgot about it. I guess I forgot about it and thought they both had the same Classic Mode. But given I barely remember the 3DS Classic Mode, I think that says my opinion of the mode right there. Not irredeemable, but very forgettable compared to Melee and Brawl's. I felt Smash 4's All-Star mode was pretty tedious and I've gone through and completed All-Star on Melee and Brawl with all characters. It might be, but it's very limited in some aspects and trapped on the "inferior" version of Smash 4. This mode should've been in the Wii U version as well. I'll tell you about my experience with the game. When I found out Sakurai was making a followup to Brawl, I was hyped and spent the better part of three years waiting for the game to be released. Brawl is one of my favorite games of all time, I had high expectations for this game when it came out. And then it came out, I played it and after unlocking all the characters and stages, beat all the event matches, I put the game down and never touched it again. I didn't bother with the DLC. I just didn't care. Horrible single player modes, no adventure mode, a very weak selection of new stages that weren't that good to play on/or were ruined by stage hazards that you couldn't turn off, useless and pointless collectibles. It ended up becoming one of the most disappointing games I've ever played.

[@canyontheman]

as someone who literally only ever uses mega man and little mac, i LOVED the custom moves and parts because it was just cool to see new mega man abilities that all referenced the games, and it was so much fun to turn little mac into a literal one hit ko machine

[@guywhoateallthepizza1031]

Roy is paid DLC - Fans are happy Corrin is paid DLC - Fans are pissed, calling him another Fire Emblem clone despite having a unique moveset. ??? The power of Melee bias

[@titusfrederick240]

From the competitive tournament scene It holds some of Smash Bros best and most iconic moments, rivalries, and narrative

[@PowerRobMusic]

Yes, the reasons people kept coming back, this dude is complaining about all of the superficial aspects of the game

[@KIRB881]

Great Cave Offensive makes sense. You cant kill them by percent because you cant get them dead with all the obstacles in the way. Lava is better

[@supermaximglitchy1]

smash4 wiiU has a stage creator while 3ds has smash run I expected sakurai to bring both of them back in ultimate because, the name ‘ultimate’

[@spaceylogan4846]

Wii U had smash tour, 3ds had Smash run Agreed, I'd like to see those return as well

[@AkameGaKillfan777]

Smash 4's stage builder was a pretty big step down from Brawl's. There were a lot less shapes and objects you could place and they expected you to just draw a bunch of platforms instead.

[@DunYappin]

Wow a video that I disagree with 100%. Amazing

[@anthonyoliver418]

Even though they might not be the best, smash run and custom move made me buy the 3DS version after ultimate came out!

[@redomega]

bro think he scott the woz

[@Catgamer7YT]

Fr

[@sophitiaofhyrule]

I will forever be mad at Ultimate for getting rid of trophies. They replaced the ability to look at 3D models of characters with... images. I cannot even begin to describe how LAME that is. Unlike Brawl, I rarely if ever play Ultimate solo because I don't give a crap about unlocking "spirits". It's baffling to me that they made the entire game revolve around what is basically the stickers from Brawl, a feature no one liked, but all of a sudden when you call them "spirits" it's okay? It's so lazy.

[@ragnaricstudios5888]

Sakurai stated they were super hard to make and not exactly popular, and spirits are supposed to be like the characters helping you in the fight

[@Gloop64]

Smash 4 walked so ultimate could run. Respect your elders.

[@AnAverageGoblin]

Brawl walked, 4 tripped.

[@Gloop64]

@@AnAverageGoblin ur the only one tripping dawg

[@fabiankrummeich5414]

​@@AnAverageGoblin Brawl literally tripped

[@AnAverageGoblin]

@@fabiankrummeich5414 and you're parroting the ridiculous idea that tripping ruined the game, i played brawl for years since it came out and tripping was never a problem. a funny mechanic outweighs dozens of bad gameplay choices from Smash 4 lmao.

[@fabiankrummeich5414]

@@AnAverageGoblin you read very far into my wordplay

[@neodeli8127]

People don't take in count the fact that custom specials basically give all characters two echo fighters.

[@givecamichips]

Smash 4 accurately represnts the wider fighting game genre by having terrible modes outside of 1v1 PvP

[@blackdot105]

I miss custom moves. Could have been great.

[@fezthedracky8468]

Playing random customs was a super fun time, you'd have no idea what you had until you really needed it and it was a dice roll on if you need it. I remember doing a MK ladder that would've killed with 2/3 of the up specials, but I rolled Lazy Shuttle Loop, and lost my life for it and smoothing will ever top that experience to me

[@marzipancutter8144]

Smash 4 had the single best implemented custom system between all games. Effects actually had tradeoffs, the power ceiling was limited, you could play most custom sets against standard characters and still have it somewhat balanced... and you could use customs without jacking up the stats altogether. The Ultimate Spirits are so centralized around stats, that everything else seems just for show. It doesn't matter that you can improve your fastfall if your enemy only does 2.25% with a smash and you can jab them for 60%, and you can't even use Spirits without them.

[@reynochavier6297]

I really took for granted how I could play smash run with my gamer group at breakfast and lunch back while I was in school . Was nothing short of fun with others.

[@wolfetteplays8894]

Same

[@sophitiaofhyrule]

The 3DS version is better than the Wii U version imo

[@AbruptAvalanche]

32:49 I think you're giving the devs too much credit. Multiple players online in one giant map? Maaaybe that would've been too hard to implement. But I don't see any technical reason why they couldn't have made other maps or had online multiplayer for the final battle portion.

[@FlyingShadow11]

smash 4 does have a redeeming factor.. the alternate move sets

[@klxo14]

The trophy descriptions were bad compared to brawl and melee.

[@1MrLGreenThunder]

Damn you skipped the best smash 3ds function. Using it as a controller for wii u

[@seasaltcosmos]

i don't know if it's just my copy of the game and i didn't realize when i got it, but back when i got smash 4 the characters were just...all unlocked??? and that really took the enthusiasm out of it for me. and the color schemes would change without my input whenever i'd start a round which bothered the fuck out of 14 year old me >:( again, it could just be some weird setting i didn't realize at the time. can someone tell me if it was just save data leftover in my copy or if that's actually how the game ran?

[@wolfetteplays8894]

That was just your copy

[@seasaltcosmos]

@@wolfetteplays8894 thank GOD

[@PeruvianPotato]

That was just your copy but the actual method of unlocking them wasn't any more compelling

[@emitheorbit1118]

I still don't understand why some custom moves are significantly more difficult to obtain that others; they could have just to beat the classic mode with a specific character and once you played as that character in a handful of fights to know how it is, you now get access to the custom moves to see other alternatives to special moves that fit you more.

[@echospace7347]

Crazy orders was sick

[@aroma1620]

Im still sad that 3ds Rainbow road and Pacman stage never made it to ultimate. 😢

[@alface935]

20:35 Now wait a minute... that is just Angry Birds it even have the materials fall with gravity after their material below is removed

[@Ersa_]

24:26 genuinely made me laugh more than i thought i would

[@UnderWeekend]

Hot take: Every smash game is the same

[@nuzzlx]

I wish Smash Run was in both modes, but I can kinda understand why it didnt make it to Wii U, split screen Smash Run would probably be hell. Though, ig this could've been circumvented by maybe letting players take turns roaming the stage. But, that would also probably wreck the pacing of the mode, plus, you wouldn't be able to run into other players in the stage. Online Smash Run coulda been something, coulda been real cool. But I would never trust Nintendo with handling a specific mode like that just for online, since, we all know how good Nintendo games are at being played online...

[@jackgibson511]

I remember playing this game at my cousins house with 8 players not know how to play and always choosing toon link

[@drungaodys5610]

okay but smash bros 64 has no collection, almost no gamemodes, a small character and stage banner and bad graphics smh,,,,,,,

[@marcuslk07]

Smash Wii U looks like an unfinished version of Smash Ultimate

[@2thezaza]

I loved smash 4 so much for so many years

[@Quantumfire.]

Bro hit me with the Oliver while I was playing smash 4

[@crazedlunatic43]

No smash game is perfect, but if it’s one thing I appreciate about Smash 4 is that the game removed an unnecessary mechanic that you couldn’t turn off if desired and has never made it back since it’s introduction in Brawl. I’m talking about random tri- *accidentally trips* ugh.

[@Novum228]

I hate Smash 4 because they made my main ROB bad

[@alexandernelson945]

Brawl is the worst in my opinion. I cannot stand the tripping mechanic and I don’t like the “realistic” design the developers went with for the fighters. With that being said, Smash 4 isn’t very good either

[@smashmonkey6304]

Honestly, most of these criticisms of Smash 4 are worse in Ultimate. Like, Smash 4 actually has modes unlike Ultimate. Also “it’s too random” makes no sense. Do you not get why rouge likes are popular. It being the same every time makes it boring. This is why Ultimate’s Classic fails because it is the same every time. You play it once and never again. Being random helps replayability. Praising Spirits at all is insane to me. Trophies, even if being model ripe, are better than PNGs ripped from Google. The customization one is a bit silly. Outside of some of the oddities like more wind boxes, this kind of feature was never going to be that in depth because Smash 4 had 48 characters. They were going to overlap or be basic a lot of the time. Also, showing World of Light as an example of good single player has me question your sanity. Imagine bitching about Smash 4’s modes when that abomination exist. It is an “illusion” of an Adventure mode

[@MarioLuigi25]

Honestly, I still love Smash 4. Yeah, it does feel hollow compared to the other entries in the series. But I still had a lot of fun with it. It gave me some of my favorite characters in the series like Mega Man, Bayonetta and Rosalina just to name a few. And some of the custom moves are actually really good like Mega Man’s Beat recovery and DK’s Hot Hand Slap

[@Carls493]

I did really enjoy Smash 4 when it was the current game, but I agree that there really isn't much to go back to with it, and when Ultimate came out, I was more than ready to move on from it. I'm even shocked that there are some people out there trying to claim that it's better than Ultimate for whatever reason.

[@moonraker5846]

Smash 4 better than ultimate for NOSTALGIA ❤

[@foundthenlost904]

Custom moves, for all of their faults, can be really funny when you ask for random ones on a random character with the boys. I've been replaying this game just for that actually! Game is clearly not as great as Ultimate, but game is still pretty good, I'd say, overall.

[@Forwaken]

Yeah, he obviously didn't get the appeal of custom moves, as they were not made for representation (though representation is cool and preferable), but for dumb fun while playing. The biggest flaws with them were instead their unlocking method, DLC characters not having them, and a lack of separate modes for using them.

[@Obsidian8R]

ive noticed a trend when it come to smash games, aside from melee to brawl, every time a new smash game comes out, everyone always says the previous one was the worst in the series, the same thing happened to brawl when 4 came out, and now the same thing is happening to smash 4 when ultimate came out

[@lunarus5805]

The thumbnail of this video is every college guy’s sex life

[@fluffdafire157]

I agree that the fire emblem hate is a little overdone but I do wish we would get another archetype in fire emblem like the caster or axe wielders

[@alexanderallison584]

I'm of the opinion that if we're getting a fire emblem rep in the next game it should be Hector

[@fluffdafire157]

@@alexanderallison584 yes

[@famine.5402]

yeah to me fire emblem isnt so much the issue but that swords just feel overdone, like id love an axe lord like edelgard or hector, or a lance lord like dimitri or ephraim but its just sword after sword. 3H lords are unlikely now though due to byleth

[@fluffdafire157]

@@famine.5402 Honestly I want a mage like Soren ( mainly cause his attitude cracks me up for some reason)

[@LloydTheZephyrian]

Is Robin not enough of a caster?

[@XgoDuo]

I still think the push back against the fire emblem characters is justified, just not to the extent some people take it. As it stands the fire emblem series is the second most represented series in smash (if memory serves me correctly) but none of the games represented sold particularly well. Pokémon and Mario can be excused since many people recognize the characters, but no one in the mainstream gaming scene knew what a fire emblem was before smash. Roy is the biggest example of that since he hadn’t made an overseas appearance yet.

[@anothenblue2630]

The real problem is that every single one of them except for maybe Byleth is a swordsman and FOUR out of eight are just Marth. Lucina and Chrom were the biggest mistake.

[@tylercoon1791]

@@anothenblue2630 Chrom is closer to Ike, than to Roy or Marth

[@anothenblue2630]

@@tylercoon1791 ...he's literally Roy with a different Up B. This isn't even subjective, it's same assets like Melee Ganon except Ganon was far more unique as a clone.

[@AJ-jo2ub]

Bro, for casual players like me and my friends, mega stages are GOATED

[@VioletNova217]

Wait- You could do smash run with other players???

[@Pau31076]

Played 200+ hours of smash run and unlocked all the custom moves there. I was so upset over the fact that smash tour replaced it on the wii u version