Smith-Pettit Lecture - The History of Heaven and Hell

Smith-Pettit Lecture at 7:00 pm MDT July 29th, 2020 presented Bart D. Ehrman "The History of Heaven and Hell" via a Sunstone Digital Symposium sponsored by Sunstone Education Foundation. Lindsay H. Park opens with an introduction while Karin F. Peter moderates the lecture. The lecture includes references to Bart's book "Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife." The Smith-Pettit lecture is free and open to the public, thanks to a generous grant from the Smith-Pettit foundation.
The program is discussed on Bart Ehrman's Foundation Blog: ehrmanblog.org/?p=21069
Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. A graduate of Wheaton College (Illinois), Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude.
Karin Franklin Peter is president of the Fifth Quorum of Seventy and serves on the Council of Presidents of Seventy with the Community of Christ. This is a branch of "Mormons" that split from the LDS over polygamy in the 19th century. She received a bachelor of science in psychology and a master of arts in Christian ministry from Community of Christ Seminary at Graceland University, Independence, Missouri.
Lindsay Hansen Park, is an American Mormon feminist blogger, podcaster, and the Executive Director for the Salt Lake City-based non-profit Sunstone Education Foundation.
Sunstone is an independent organization located in Salt Lake City, Utah. Sunstone does not have any official ties to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The organization serves members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and many others for whom life and faith is a wonderful but unique adventure. Sunstone brings together traditional and non-traditional Latter-day Saints, promoting an atmosphere that values faith, intellectual, and experiential integrity.
Copyright © Bart D. Ehrman and Sunstone Education Foundation. All Rights Reserved. Unauthorized use, re-posting, and/or duplication of this media without the express and written permission from Bart D. Ehrman and Sunstone Education Foundation is strictly prohibited.

[@renierp.duplessis4017]

12:26 - Start here to skip the Intro 21:18 - Greeks invent Heaven and Hell 34:00 - Jews invent the Devil and the Apocolypse 39:20 - Did Jesus believe in Heaven and Hell? 45:32 - Problems with the English translation of the Hebrew word Gehenna 48:00 - Jesus did not teach Heaven and Hell as we understand it today 55:00 - Christians adopt Plato's concept of Heaven and Hell 60:00 - Q&A on various verses

[@TheDizzleHawke]

You rock!

[@interman7715]

Thanks mate.

[@KamranSher]

Great job🤗

[@HarlanHarvey76]

Bart begins at 12:13 .....it's a painful intro but i do thank them for the work they have done which allows us all to hear some more wonderful and honest insight from one of the most learned biblical scholars to ever tackle the subject. I am always eager to digest the knowledge that he finds important to share!!

[@jio-lito]

Time saver 🤝

[@rockpoppets6182]

Thanks

[@aapp953]

I almost cried when he said he is donating all the money from his chat blog. What a noble man

[@user-vi4oj4de7q]

There is no one noble or good but God.

[@wagsman9999]

My Sunday school teacher was wrong ... again.

[@sagebias2251]

Thank you for continually repeating your answers to questions. The repetition really helps me understand.

[@sondertt2220]

I apppreciate everything you do, Mr. Ehrman.

[@acetrades1524]

That's Doctor Ehrman. He has earned it.

[@boxerfencer]

@Papa Smurf what, are you 5 years old?

[@Iamwrongbut]

Papa Smurf are you serious? Haha

[@juicyjesstv]

@Papa Smurf do you realize how stupid you sound

[@SubstanceP888]

@Papa Smurf When I see a comment like yours, I vomit a little, and then usually try to get on with my life, resisting the strong temptation to let you know how fucking dumb you are for pretending to be a mind reader, and pretending to know what someone else actually thinks or believes, even when you don’t have any idea who they are, and even if you’re not technically “pretending” because that would imply that you’re aware that you can’t ACTUALLY know the truth inside the mind of somebody else...and assuming you’re as dumb as your comment has made you look, you might actually think you really can... But today I couldn’t resist this urge. I had to let you know. You’re an idiot. Don’t tell people what they do or don’t think or do or don’t believe, because you don’t fucking know that. You’re just speculating with empty, unsubstantiated assertions based on your delusional understanding of reality. Go fuck yourself. You’re dumb and deserve it.

[@1550Nanometer]

12:26 skip the intro and tech issues Dr Ehrmans first line is hilarious

[@dirk4926]

Thank you I thought she'd never shut up

[@omnipitous4648]

Thanks. I needed that.

[@IgorMikeshin]

Kudos to you

[@chewyjello1]

Thank you!

[@younggrasshopper3531]

I didn’t get it lol thank you

[@ce2161]

Dr. Bart Ehrman, I would like to thank you for your work, I’m a Christian and this (surprisingly) has grown my faith even more, I’m about to get your book but all I have to say is that you are a complete blessing, Thanks.

[@jonwood6101]

That's the thing about books, people read them and interpret them differently. Even when the author makes clear to most it's intended meaning. an educated mind should be able to entertain a concept or belief w/o having to accepting it. This comment was not directed at you, I'm just rambling after a long lecture. The best to you.

[@thumbsdownbandit]

Apparently, this is not about the ground-breaking Black Sabbath album.

[@charlytaylor1748]

they come on at the end

[@jonadams8841]

Ehrman is an astonishingly gifted and intelligent scholar. Love to listen to his analyses.

[@reconstructionmanifest7349]

Dr Ehrman: Thank you for your dedication to your discipline and all of your hard work. Listening to you always scratches my human religious itch. Which is quite frequently recently. I was inspired to buy a bible directly translated from Greek so I could read it as close to its orginal form as I could without knowing Greek. Keep on keeping on prof

[@everettworld1765]

Thank you Bart for expanding my knowledge and uploading these lectures for general audience, because that way we can learn about Christianity in a secular fashion. It is so often the case that it's either atheism or religion, but you fill that huge void that's left for people who are simply interested in history of this religion, no matter what they believe.

[@jonwood6101]

A good historian, just like a scientist won't bring their personal preconceived beliefs, just the facts. There should be no void in Secular History, because it is factual History, without a bias regardless of beliefs or lack of beliefs. Like a cowboy that loves the old west, may not like the historical indian facts-but there they are. I'm always glad to see Christians with an open mind when it comes to history and science, it's not always the case. The Best to you in your journey

[@jasonjones2064]

Thank you so much for your commitment to this subject and sharing your learnings and experiences with us .....or I Dare say history will record it as the invaluable tool it is......knowledge........

[@2seriousedutainment764]

Amazing Bart Ehrman.....much respect for the enlightenment

[@robertwhite1810]

Why bother donating money when you can just pray? Oh wait.....money actually gets things done!

[@anniesue4456]

Especially when it is tax exempt!!!!

[@meteor1237]

Always enjoy Bart! Amazing honest critical thinking and objective honesty! Some solace since missing Hitchens.

[@davidhinkley]

This fellow atheist enjoyed this lecture and discussion. Thanks Bart.

[@jeffmorin5867]

There is no such thing as an atheist. You give your worship to something no matter what.

[@OctaviaOG]

Jeff Morin i don’t worship anything. at all. and i’m an atheist. and you should respect people’s self description instead of rejecting it and telling people what they think/believe/worship. that’s awfully arrogant on your part.

[@marywade2739]

@@jeffmorin5867 If you were wrong, would you want to know?

[@veganworldorder9394]

@@jeffmorin5867 Can you give a justification for your weird assertion

[@mattiescreations]

Jeff Morin thanks for reminding me of that truth but remember swine will just eat pearls digging them out of their poop

[@sagebias2251]

You are one of the most inspiring people I have ever heard. Your dedication to truth is second to none. And you truly manifest the idea of really knowing what you are talking about.

[@budwalters9013]

Just came across this... been an Ehrman fan for a long while, but did not know that he had fully "come out" as an atheist! Good on him! I take it he's no longer chair of Religious Studies at UNC... BTW... grad from WHEATON!!! More props, that's a tough one! Read their student handbook one time (late '70's) Men and women couldn't go to town at the same time, had to take different paths on campus, etc....

[@dannyboy2751]

This man knows more about the Bible than any Christian I ever met

[@AstariahFox]

Cause Christianity are based on pagan traditions , they adopted pagan bieliefs such as trinity, hellfire, immortality of soul and all worldly holidays

[@kelvindiaz2597]

I just realized, most religions control people with two doctrines: reward and retributions.

[@jmike2039]

A really easy way to lose viewers is 12 minutes of an intro lol

[@moonhuggyadventures]

I recognize you from tiktok buddy, cool to see you here. Name on there is moonhuggy, much love your way and for your videos

[@johnendalk6537]

Thank you. Skipped ahead 12 min

[@TheGrandScoobah]

To be fair, this was the opening address of a multi-day conference. Such welcoming introductions by the president of the hosting organization are pretty standard to academic conferences in general. The difference is that this time it was digital rather than in person because of the pandemic.

[@darkmagus64]

I love your books and lectures.

[@clarkemorledge2398]

Does anyone know what "12 major translations by different teams of Hebrew scholars" Randy Alcorn looked at that suggested a different reading of Job 19, that would imply bodily resurrection, in contrast to Bart Ehrman's citation of evidence?

[@WhyCallMeLordLord]

Looking forward to this!! Thank you Bart!

[@OctaviaOG]

question: is it fair to say that Plato formalized the concept of the soul? are there earlier descriptions of the soul? did plato outright invent it?

[@jonfromtheuk467]

Thanks Bart - interesting you now seem more comfortable with the atheist label. Really enjoy your work - has helped me a lot understand the issues.

[@dynamic9016]

Very interesting and informative video.Really love listening to Dr.Bart Ehrman.

[@Bazzo61]

Really enjoyed this talk by Bart, as I enjoy all his lectures. The idea that come the judgement day people will either be resurrected and live in an eternal paradise here on Earth or be annihilated sounds very much what Jehova Winesses believe. Unlikely any JWs watching this :-) but if there are, perhaps you can comment on this?

[@dougarnold7955]

Thanks. I love the information you provide. 👍

[@MrJaree]

I have heard ehrman say many times that there are discrepancies in the gospels that can not be reconciled but I have never heard him list these discrepancies. Can some one tell me which are the irreconcilable differences ?

[@MrArdytube]

Dr. Ehrman has provided years of education about religion.... with an unfailing instinct for important topics that are too often glossed over. The lecture starts after 12 minutes in If you appreciate Dr. Ehhrman’s efforts in this pursuit, he has set up a blog whose membership fees are entirely devoted to charity. IMO it is a worthwhile cause toshow non religious support for good works (rather than murder for example)

[@Carelock]

I’ve been watching your channel waiting for content, Dr. Ehrman. I wish your blog (Yes, I’m a subscriber) was in video/discussion format.

[@ronj8000]

Dam! Dr Ehrman is soooo awesome!

[@frankperdue6585]

Bart is a ROCKSTAR amongst the thinkers.🤘🏻😷 Now that Christopher Hitchens is gone, you're another Atheist that Christians absolutely love. It's a definite phenomenon.

[@ArmchairPhilosopher360]

Really? Church-going Bible-believing Christians hated Hitchens. Ehrman connects with liberal Christians only because he defends a historical Jesus and certain NT witness testimonies, which Hitchens never did.

[@HarlanHarvey76]

Bart is not firebrand atheist or a polemic of any sort....atheist/agnostic? Yes, admittedly. Firebrand? Definitely not. Bart is not looking to insult or influence anyone's belief system directly. He educates and shares his personal philosophy through positive persuasion not negative brow beating and sarcasm. This makes him less intimidating to those with cognitive bias. Although, I do miss Mr. Hitchens cutting intellect, i don't know many conservative evangelical Christians who ever will. I personally appreciated him.

[@sleepyzeph]

@@ArmchairPhilosopher360 I agree most Christians seemed to dislike Hitchens, but it's not true to say he never defended the historical Jesus. He certainly wasn't as charitable with his descriptions as Bart is, but he did say he believed the myths were based on a real person.

[@russianfolktales3641]

He’s not atheists. He’s agnostic

[@athanasiusjames1]

I believe Professor Ehrman describes himself as an agnostic, not an atheist. Meanwhile, I'm not aware of any Christians who were fond of Hitchens.

[@hectorexcalibur3593]

Is it true that in Christianity, one can only go to Heaven by faith in Jesus not by his own virtues?

[@galporgy]

Bart’s going to typography hell for his font and color choices. C’mon man, red Comic Sans on a light blue background?

[@theunwantedcritic]

I’m a big fan of your writing and scholarship. I do wish that you would explore the origins of some of these concepts that started before Judaism and certainly before the Greco Roman.. I’m talking about Zoroastrianism and ancient Egyptian religions; both of which had an afterlife based on reward and punishment with two different locations for the righteous and the unrighteous. Historically no one can dispute that these mighty empires had a profound influence on the ancient Jewish peoples who are subjugated by them. I’m also a fan of Richard Carrier’s work even though he’s a little bit more abrasive than you are. OK serves me right for not watching the video to its completion so many in the Q&A session did ask you a question about Zoroastrianism. And that’s a valid response. That’s why they pay you the big bucks

[@manuelarat7022]

Does anybody know someone who explains Quran like Mr. Ehrman explains NT? I am interested in knowing more about Islam,too. Mr. Ehrman does a wonderful job and it is always a pleasure to hear him talk. Thank you in advance

[@werak.8595]

There is a guy, I dont remember his name right now. But search for something like "was petra the first Qibla" and he is the one who speaks about It. He is a historian who researches quaran. There is a woman as well, who studied ancient maps and found out there was no big city ofmecca. Wish my memory was better 😅

[@arnesaknussemm2427]

So does apocalyptic teaching and thus Jesus, teach salvation by works?

17:00 The first instance of "if it bleeds, it leads"?

[@shanemitchell1505]

This was incredible. Thanks so much

[@CommadoreGothnogDragonheart]

I loved this book. It's my second favorite from Dr. Ehrman after Forged.

[@spaceisalie5451]

Haven't started watching yet, does Bart start with a story about giving his students a test? If not, I don't wanna watch the video

[@bestill.4216]

The test is for people like you!

[@naysneedle5707]

Thanks for sharing this interesting lecture. I will be reading the book.

[@redfaust8189]

Thank you Sun Stone for making this happen (even though you sounded like sanctimonious pricks in the intro)! I've been looking forward to Dr. Ehman's lecture on this for a while.

[@losttribe3001]

What sweet backhanded complement from a sanctimonious you-tuber that is absolutely correct. .

[@angelgirldebbiejo]

I love Barts knowledge. Bahai here listening in.

[@sagebias2251]

Bahai is still my favorite religion.

[@christyjia8449]

Lecture begins at 12:30...

[@fanzy1338]

Heaven and Hell, One God, Day of Judgment, Good vs. Evil, etc. were first introduced by Zoroastrianism and over time spread to abrahamic religions including Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

[@SecretEyeSpot]

Thank you for making the distinction between Ha-Satan and the Devil. 1:13:30

[@doctorshell7118]

I really enjoyed this. Atheist here.

[@prisonss]

Bart....awesome as always!!!! Your books should b taught in schools

[@Sportliveonline]

2 Peter 2:4 New International Version For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; Tartarus is the place where certain sinful angels are presently kept bound. This specific Greek word is only used once in the New Testament. ~~~~~where does this idea come from ???

[@thescoobymike]

What about the Rich Man and Lazarus story? Is that not describing Hell?

[@jamesmccluskey391]

Jesus never taught the immortal soul fallacy misconceptions! Almost every religious institution along with culture has their version of the immortal soul. 👇 Millions believe that you have an immortal soul that either goes to heaven or hell when you die. Yet the words “immortal soul” are nowhere to be found in your Bible. Think for a moment, if you already have an immortal soul then why do you need God? You already have something that lives forever inside of you, why would you need a relationship with God? The concept and teaching of the immortality of the soul does not come from the Bible! Philosophers like Plato and Socrates came up with the concept as they speculated about the state of the dead. What does the Bible really say about immortality? THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM IS THAT HELL IS NOT A JUDEO-CHRISTIAN CONCEPT. That is not its origin. Jews didn't believe in the existence of a Hell based upon their own cosmology and stories.... You want to know where the concepts originated 1) Egyptian faith 2) Zoroastrianism 3) Babylonian religions 4) Greece mythology. So all of this can be historically traced and YET Jews didn't believe in Hell until a SEGMENT OF JEWS took elements of these ideas from their conquers. Overall most Jews still don't believe in Hell and this is the FOUNDING RELIGION of Christianity -- Jesus and his disciples were all Jewish adherents.

[@psychomd1939]

As in Plato's Dialogues, in ancient Greek, the word symposium meant a drunken party.

[@yuratago3486]

mr. Bart... you are so intelegent and honest... Your research abiut the bible is very good in detail and accuracy... I hope you can do the same thing to the holy Qur'an... therefore is already 1.400 years... there is no any canges... did it doesnt make you curious...?

[@Bbarfo]

Great lecture. Thank you.

[@sgh94644]

Thought bart was an agnostic? What made him go totally into Atheism? (I'm around agnostic that's why I ask)

[@christfollower5713]

Cause Agnostic position is really vague , although i would be agnostic rather than atheist , cause the evidence of God in the entire universe is so refutable to atheistic position , Jesus did teach about Eternal torment so i think dr. Bart is mistaken , be saved by Jesus Christ , cause hell awaits every sinner..

[@UnimatrixOne]

Thanks to Bart Ehrman and the people who make such videos possible! Does Dr. Ehrman upload the videos himself and does he read in the comments?

[@richardsmith6830]

Fair perhaps a deeper reading of Vergil

[@yizhaqmerzel3491]

Regarding resurrection see Ezekiel 37. Regarding afterlife see 1 Samuel 28

[@goidogoi]

It would be advisable to chop away the first 12 minutes. Sheesh...

[@suleymanbabak1973]

I just listened to the part regarding the Goats and Sheep Metaphor. I'm at 55:01 now. I notice there is a flaw in your reasoning. You say that the fire to which the goats are sent is supposed to be eternal not because one suffers eternally into it, but because it continues burning after the wicked gets destroyed in it. The problem I find in this interpretation is that there's no point in describing as "eternal" a fire that is only lit to burn a the wicked once. Yes, it's not a "when one dies" thing. It's a thing that supposedly happens "One Day" and is concluded in that one day. The good guys go into the kingdom, and the bad guys are destroyed. There's no reason after that to keep the fire burning eternally. This makes me suspect that the fact that the fire burns "eternally" refers to an actual "eternity of torment in the fire". It is considered the opposite of an "eternal life" because being forced to burn forever isn't exactly what you'd call "a life". (to clarify, I am an Atheist and I don't believe any of this, but I think that the detail of the fire being told to be "eternal" cannot simply be dismissed like that).

[@gerardjayetileke4373]

Context and original meaning matter in this case. Neither of the instances of the word "eternal" refer to a duration as such. The phrase translated as "eternal life" actually meant "life of the age (to come)", and "eternal fire" refers to judgement. Of course the symbols were meant to be impactful, hence its physical nature. This makes sense in Jewish apocalypticism. The idea of "eternal" we have is more platonic and less Jewish.

[@aceofspades25]

Talk starts at 12m03s Longest intro ever

[@moesypittounikos]

I've been reading the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg and his symbolic take on the question of Heaven and Hell feels like a middle ground. Sadly he isn't all that well known but he did his best to iron out religion and science.

[@bortiz11]

That was a painfully long intro... finally got to the meat and potatoes...

[@harlanlang6556]

Dr. Ehrman didn't mention that the prophet Daniel was living in Babylon at the time of his vision where the religion was Zoroastrianism, followers of the prophet Zoroaster, which does teach heaven and hell, which believes in a creator God Ahura Mazda, or the Wise Lord, and the struggle between good and evil. Some scholars believe that these Zoroastrian beliefs influenced Daniel. The Persian King Cyrus the Great, a Zoroastrian, freed the Jews to return to Jerusalem and provided them with the funds to rebuild the Jerusalem temple and was called by Isaiah "the annointed", or messiah. The Magi who came to honor the birth of Jesus were Zoroastrian priests. So there seems to be an historical connection between Zoroastrianism and the development of Jewish and Christian thought. Zoroastrianism was the religion of the Persian Empire at the time of Jesus and was probably the largest religion in the middle east at that time. Christians have tended to see all other religions and philosophies as false religion, that the ancient Greek beliefs were from mortal men while Christianity is from God. But it's strange that so much of our modern civilization can be traced back to Greek thinkers and culture, like democracy, medicine, science and logical thinking. I don't think we can be certain as to why Plato believed that we have a soul which survives bodily death, but in his book "The Republic" he recounts the funeral of a warrior who suddenly comes back alive and describes his experience. This is maybe the first recorded such NDE, Near Death Experience, but these experiences are fairly common today, where modern medicine is capable of reviving some people who have been clinically dead for up to 30 minutes or more. The experiences of these revived people are fascinating, varied but with definite patterns. Dr. Jeffrey Long established an organization and website NDERF.org to collect and study these experiences after he heard many from his own patients. It's interesting that Jesus did not write, or have written, His teachings, when he could have found someone to do so, or instructed His disciples to do so. Teaching in the form of parables made it easier for people to remember and re-tell these stories without the need of being exactly correct. The essence and principle of these parables would remain true even if the narrations were not identical. One thing we can know about Jesus is that He was not a literalist. The example of His interpretation of the return of Elijah in "the Day of the Lord" as found in Malachi 4:5-6 is the best example of this. Matt 11:14 reports Jesus as saying the John the Baptist is the return of Elijah. So Elijah didn't literally fly down from heaven, but John is the fulfillment of this promise. The Jews who heard this explanation apparently found it unbelievable, so even though Jesus was a Jew, it seems that His thinking and understanding were not in line with the common Jewish understanding and thinking of that time. The Kingdom of God seems to have at least two meanings: an earthly kingdom and an inner spiritual kingdom. It seems probable that the early Christians, like today's Christians, were basically spiritually incompetent and "remembered" the Jesus stories through their own world views, making them sound as interesting and exciting as possible.

[@harlanlang6556]

Sorry I posted above before hearing the questions and answers in which Dr. Ehrman did mention Zoroasterianism.

[@dennisrydgren]

Yes, Triumph of C is a great book. All BDE books are great but that book is soooo... read it.

[@nero3901]

What's the ETA on the new book on Jesus going to hell? You got me excited when you mentioned it

[@divinesatire117]

I wrote about atheism as a religion in other discussion here in KZbin, and I copy my text here, if someone happens to be interested in the human religiousness, connected to modern science: Every belief, which claims something about our collective consciousness, is a religion. Agnostisism is not a religion, because a true agnostic does not claim anything about the existance or non-existance of "god", or "consciousness", but atheist is claiming, that there is no "god", OR something like god (collective consciousness). So, atheism is a belief, religion, NOT-THEISM. The "god" is only a word, and in different religions there is different names for it. So, you could also call "god" "consciousness", and so are also many modern scientist doing, f. ex. this year's nobelist of Physicists, Penrose. Also many other quantum physicists nowadays talk about consciousness as something, which is energy, connecting all life, and they are sometimes called "quantum mystics". That energy can be named "god", or the original Hebrew word (!) "elohim", which is plural, not singuar. And in Hebrew there are no capital letters, so elohim is not Elohim. And the same word is in Islam, too: "El iIah". So monotheist Christianity and also Islam are both actually based on false translation. "Elohim" can be translated also All That Is, and Jesus can be assumed to be a Buddhist (the gospels in the Bible are copies of Buddhist texts). Islam is actually more clearly Buddhist philosophy, because there is no right to draw a figure of that "El Ilah", Allah, because it is an energy and power, not a person. "Thoughts are material" is also a hypothesis of scientists nowadays, so there is no emptiness, emptiness is full of something, energy, which has a vibration. So according to those scientists "reality" is only vibration, which we interpret, with our senses, so reality is actually only a dream, "a thought of itself", not "real". And different people have different kind of collective reality, with those people, who interpret that vibration in the same way. Albert Einstein was asking: "Is universe a friendly place?", meaning, that "universe is a friendly place if YOU believe, that it is", because everything you personally believe in, is truth, for you. So also Einstein was a mystic, if you want to call all those people mystics, who believe in collective consciousness.

[@mayito9100]

Thank you Mr. Ehrman! That's exactly what the Bible teaches when it comes to Heaven and Hell

[@trailhiker8063]

I love Barts information, i don't believe in any man made religions; however Bart says in this video in the old testament that people just died. What about Cain and Abel? El says to Cain that Abel's soul crys out to him. I am paraphrasing of course, but it would raise the question if people just died in the OT, how can the soul cry out to god?

[@matthewjohnson3656]

The verse says “your brother soul (or “blood” in most translations) cries out to me from the ground”. So either it was a metaphorical “crying out” in that his death demanded justice or his soul was literally on the ground. Or if you go with the blood translation, there is no mention of a soul.

[@Freaksnake]

mic gain issues :O secular folk need to step up their social media game.

[@caligulasloveboat5232]

It is the height of irony that Atheistic scholarship now comes with ten minute Progressive sermons at the beginning, little removed from any religious screed you'd typically hear at church.

[@davidjrtodd]

This is one of the reasons Bruce Metzger criticises New World Translation. They don’t use Hell - they use the transliteration Gehenna as their translation. Although their views of the afterlife are weird, they do believe that most live forever on earth. I speak of the JW’s

[@jcobs5608]

What now? 99.9% of Christian religions are taught heaven and hell and the Trinity. Is there a Christian faith that is close you your views?

[@falsesectslikeshiaarejudeo6543]

15 :00 apocalypse of peter. book almost in bible, aatributed to peter. found in 1887. 66 page bk. earliest tour of heaven and hell. ppl are punished based on sin, blasphemy hanged by tongue, women who seduce with braids hung by braids, man is different, 7/10 ppl believe in heaven and 6 /10 in hell in usa. 20 :00 - ot and hist Jesus doesn't teach this. be wrote a book on this for general ppl. homer in odyssey talks about after life. odyssius has to visit hades head tyresisu after winning trojan horse. says you can live forever in joyless kingdom of dead. all go to same place, this life is only one worth it. tries to hig his dead mom but goes away like a shadow. alot of ppl ask where is justce? virgil influenced by greek plato. tarturus is like hell and elysium is like heaven. picked up by plato and went into canon. christianty came from hebrew tradition. 30 :00 - plato says souls are immortal though body dies. in hebrew tradition ppla re living bodies. says Adam is dirt and God breathes into him, when breathe leaves you die. no soul after death though. sheol means grave or pit for the hebrews. again wheres the justice? book of daniel at the end , started idea of apocalyptic ideas. about a few centuries before Jesus. says devil is invented in this time (but he was in ot as the serpent?) says the modern world is run by the corrupt ones but a good kingdom will come. day of judgement will be before that! ressurection of body. the Ressurection and paradise will be on Earth... after a final punishment on the corrupt ppl ressurected with them. some ppl say Jesus was apocalyptic. 40 :00 - mathew, mark luke and john were anonaymous , idea mathew and john are students of Jesus, mark with peter or luke with paul came centuries later. Mark first gospel written in greek , writing what he heard when Jesus spoke Aramaic. the gospels contradict. Mathew mark and luke agree alot, and say Kingdom of God is coming. JOhn is later and very different. says Jesus as a j didn't think souls will continue to leave, most of his teaching is to live for others to enter Kingdom. care about the needy or traveler etc. others will be tossed in gehenna. bible translate it to hell. in old testament is a valley where child sacrifice took place. ancient ppl believed in good burial rites. says Jesus taught pl will be raised and annailiated. mathew 7 :13 how narrow is the gate away from destruction. mathew 13 - like the weeds gathered it will be put in furnace of fire. 50 :00 - mathew 25 - son of man, ppl on right are sheep to heaven and goats on left to eternal punishment. because sheeps fed the ppl and clothes the needy etc. and goats didn't. bart says opposite of life is death not torture... Islam adds on they will die but not die and be brought back to feel the torment. Jesus says this generation will see the judgement and it didn't come... so ppl had to reinterpret it. dualism. many converts were greek who thought soul was immortal. says heaven and hell is mixing JEsus's teaching of justice with plato of eternal soul. h/e Jesus said his kingdom isn't of this world... 1 :00 :30 later gospels think Jesus views on heaven and hell were later added on. alot of bible was exxagerated. be says miquoting Jesus where scribes changed what he said. chap 2 is how it should b, chap 3 way it is and chap 4 what will happen. on book of revelations. luke 16, how about parable on lazarus. rich man and lazarus who is sick and homeless who goes to heaven while rich man is tortured. rich man says send me back. this story says if they dont believe in Moses they wont believe in one raising from the dead... its likely added to Jesus. 1 :10 :30 - baptism for dead in corinthians 15 :29. one explanation is saying he will be ressurected, this is why it matters. asks who was satan in job if it was made up later. satan in hebrew means adversary. says satan became devil later on as apocalyptic. did zoroastrian ideas influence the hebrews. babylonians conquered them. says likely not because of alexander stopped there influence. witch on endor and saul who was first king of united is. 5 judges samuel dies. so saul in war needs advice and asks for him o be resurrected. 1 :20 :00 - samuel says you will be with me tomorow. says this just shows ressurection and reanimation. in mormon there is telestial, terestial and celestian in heaven any basis ... bw says early bibles had ideas of heaven having different levels. middle platonism has idea of transtition. early chrisitans said Jesus went to hell and conquered hell... says Jesus saves because his death was needed for salvation. last question as heaven kingdom is with or in you... different translation, he was talking to his enemy the farisees. then says he was a blog where he talks about this stuff and history, constatine, paul etc.

[@strongtower1162]

What exactly is a "Feminist Mormon"?????

[@musti799]

Mr Ehrman, please look to find an answer to the problem of suffering in Islam. I love your work and sincerity, the search for truth doesn't stop at Christianity.

[@veganworldorder9394]

How does Islam explain suffering ?

[@musti799]

@@veganworldorder9394 hmm sent a reply but its not showing, not really sure why.

[@thedragonofechigo7878]

So that's mean Frank turek is wrong when he says Men don't die, they just change places Because that would, in his interpretation, means he believes in the literal hell and heaven which is traditional amongst evangelical Christians when in reality Their very teacher in Jesus did not even teach this since Jesus believed in a literal kingdom of God here on earth and he believed in annihilationism

[@tovarischkrasnyjeshi]

The Egyptians also had a similar afterlife-trek in one of the stories of Sa-Osiris. I think there are multiple versions of the story, because the one I'm familiar with has a lot of markings of being rolled up into other myths, legends, and folktales. The Ancient Egyptians had a folk-hero, Setna Khaemwaset, one of the sons of Ramesses II. A real dude, he was basically the first Egyptologist in his own right (for the record - the Pyramids were already around 2000 years old when he lived), but was later mythologized in a number of ways, like in his adventures with the Book of Thoth. He had a prodigy child, one who always seemed to know things he shouldn't, who in the myth-arc would later prove to be an ancient sage reincarnated to get back at a Nubian mage who cheated in a duel. Sometime between those stories, Setna had been returning home one day when he noticed a rich man's funeral parade and all the hired mourners and lavish, over the top festivities and everything, and a homeless man who starved to death with no mourners. His son had remarked on the homeless man positively, without pity, and when Setna was weirded out by that, Sa-Osiris took him through the things described by the Book of the Dead; descent into the western underworld where wicked people were being tortured by demons, negative confessions of sin before the demon-guardians of these regions, into the judgment room where the poor man was judged, his heart equal to the feather of truth, and awarded the rich man's offerings in the fields of paradise. The genre, I think, existed regardless of religion. I know Shinto and Buddhist stories exist along these lines, and I'm pretty sure Hindus do too. The Egyptian tale I think dates to the same mid-first millennium BCE timeframe as the Odyssey and Aeneid, maybe 6th century BCE before Alexander but after the Persian conquest (although the Nubian hatred might have been plain rivalry as opposed to resentment of the Nubian 25th dynasty), but long enough after Ramesses II's reign (c 13th BCE) for one of his sons to be mythologized (which admittedly could have happened immediately).

[@Drupthop]

In the future, turn off your radio or live feedback source to remove the delay on your playback.

[@Thumbs81]

Lovely stuff

[@HassanRadwan133]

love bart ehrman

[@jamesmccluskey391]

The Bible Says. There is no eternal, conscious torment in some sort of "hell." Here are verses showing the wicked will be destroyed and will not "be" anymore: "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be" (Psalms 37:10). "When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever" (Psalms 92:7). "As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation" (Proverbs 10:25). "Knowest thou not this of old, since man was placed upon earth, That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the hypocrite but for a moment? Though his excellency mount up to the heavens, and his head reach unto the clouds; Yet he shall perish for ever like his own dung: they which have seen him shall say, Where is he?" (Job 20:4-7). Even Satan will be destroyed: "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more" (Ezekiel 28:17-19). The apostle Paul wrote, "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23). Yes, the wages of sin is death, not eternal life in some sort of burning hellfire. We either perish in death, or we receive the gift of eternal life. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). Those are the two alternatives; we perish in death, or else we receive the gift of eternal life. *********************** Salvation is not about where you'll spend eternity. You won't even have an eternity - of any sort, anywhere - unless God chooses to give you the gift of eternal life!!! Otherwise, you'll perish in death. The "immortal soul" is a lie passed down from pagan religion. If we were immortal, God would not need to give us eternal life. *********************** For anyone reading this who is undecided about the meaning of "hell" I recommend using a Bible search tool to find all the New Testament uses of "hell" and see what Greek word "hell" was translated from. You'll discover that "hell" in the KJV NT appears 23 times and was translated from three different original Greek words, (gehenna, hades and tartaroo) each of which has a different meaning. That's where a lot of today's confusion begins! Look into it! Revelation 21:8 shows that being cast into the lake of fire IS the second death, which for the wicked is death after the resurrection for judgment as described in Rev 20:12-15 . Those who get the second death do not exist anymore and they have no further hope of consciousness or life or resurrection. It is the end of them, just as described in the verses I quoted earlier. Here's Revelation 21:8: "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." So, here's the big question: Is the "lake of fire" a literal place, or, is it a figurative expression signifying destruction? It's both. Remember the verses about God bringing forth a fire "in the midst" of Satan and reducing Satan "to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee"? Well, Revelation 20:7-10 tells more of the story. In short, after the millenium Satan will be allowed to deceive and lead "the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea" (Rev 20:8). "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city [Jerusalem]: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them" (Rev 20:9). Satan and his followers are destroyed by fire sent by God. With so many on fire it will probably look like a "lake of fire" has surrounded Jerusalem. The prophet Malachi described the event: "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch... And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 4:1,3). The "lake of fire" is also used in a figurative sense. After the final resurrection and the judgment (Rev 20:12-15) everyone will have either received eternal life, or else the second death. There will be no more mortals left, so death will not happen any more: death will have been destroyed. And there will be no one left in the grave awaiting resurrection for judgment: the grave will also have been destroyed. Revelation 20:14 describes the destruction of death and the grave: "And death and hell [Greek hades, the grave] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." The apostle Paul wrote in 1 Cor 15:26, "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." Death is destroyed after the wicked are destroyed through death, specifically the second death. So, what about verses like this: "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matthew 25:46). It's helpful to realize that words like permanent and final never appear in the KJV. Instead, words like everlasting or eternal or for ever are used. Words like everlasting often suggest to us today an ongoing, continuing situation, like perpetual motion. When you see "everlasting," you have to discern what was intended: is it permanent, finished and irretractable, or, is it perpetual, unfinished and ongoing? For example, when we execute someone, the punishment is permanent: we can't undo it, it's final and it's done. The punishment is eternal in the sense that it stands forever, but it's not perpetual, ongoing punishing. Likewise for the wicked: they will be punished permanently in death, specifically the second death. That punishment will be permanent and final; it will stand forever and in that sense it will be eternal or everlasting. They will not be subjected to perpetual, ongoing punishing. This is consistent with the verses quoted earlier showing the wicked will perish, will be destroyed and no longer "be."

[@somerandomvertebrate9262]

Yeah, but when Jesus says "the burning Gehenna" isn't it likely he was simply employing a parable? After all, that's what he does all the time. Seriously, he couldn't quite literally have meant a trash heap in Jerusalem, could he? In other words, wouldn't it seem like he was actually talking about hell, pretty much as the Christians have always envisioned it?

[@boxerfencer]

Or hyperbole? And can't burning refer to purgatory?

[@eleniarapi1828]

Bart Ehrman confused me a lot...but I think he looks things from the natural wisdom not through the Holy Spirit.

[@geraldbrienza4474]

Bart is awesome. Even though he is now an atheist, he still believes in an historical Jesus, which is where I disagree. But, well done Bart.

[@jonwood6101]

I'm an atheist and think there was a real historical person at the center of the story. Even so it doesn't speak to the existence of a dying and rising god claim. For that you'd need a lot more than what is currently presented historically or biblically.

[@falsesectslikeshiaarejudeo6543]

the sound comes off so bad for some reason.

[@sgh94644]

Wait I thought Paul was a jew not gentile

[@xiaodown]

Great lecture, by one of the preeminent scholars of our era, completely undermined by the use of comic sans :P

[@theunwantedcritic]

The problem that he has is he’s talking about the Western tradition. Assuming for a moment that what is now Palestine/Israel, Syria, Turkey Egypt, and Libya are part of the western civilization when clearly they are not. In ancient Egypt and Persia they had concepts of afterlife.

[@programmingwithbaker-codin953]

Clip the terribly vacuous intro by “Lindsey” out

[@videolifeca]

You say the afterlife was not mentioned on the NT but JC mentions Father in heaven in the Lord's prayer.. and on the cross to the thief.. you will be in heaven with mr.. so this implies an afterlife and heaven.

[@SnoopyDoofie]

Yeshua didn't say "heaven". He said "paradise". Paradise is a separate place from heaven. It is a place where only a few chosen ones have been allowed to stay, including Enoch, Elijah and Moses. All others remain dead in the grave. No man has ever been to heaven and heaven is not the place destined for those saved. The earth will be their inheritance.

[@GenXersJustWalkItOff]

I am so glad these young people were exposed to this information.

[@fram1111]

Few things to point out, explain the people "Saints" who have died and there body don't corrupt and I could go on, but remember the Devil said if you eat this you will not die, well that was only a half truth..Following half truths will lead to no truth & the i›imaginary devil has you right were he wants you!

[@Valdagast]

I wonder what Jesus had against goats?

[@eddieoxendine9532]

I enjoyed this lecture as well. I am not an atheist but I respect everyone's view. I do not think it disproves or proves a Creative force that made all. However it does show how man has an agenda and will misinterpret and mislead individuals through religion and spiritual beliefs. How can someone possibly put into words the unexplainable ( a Creator that made all ) and how can someone tell us the beginning of existence and the end of existence if they weren't there and it hasn't happened yet. I am glad to see an individual like Bart who through constant study and learning change his view point and realize and say what he was taught about religion ( in his earlier years ) wasn't right or factual base.

[@laartist86]

Is this the same mormon church that spent more than 22 million dollars on prop 8?

[@matthewjohnson3656]

Yup 😣

[@HkFinn83]

Actually no...read the intro text. It’s a schismatic sect apparently. I’ve never heard of it but I’m guessing it’s more liberal than the Mormons if they broke off over polygamy.

[@FaiaHalo]

14:16

[@frankperdue6585]

Does every Millennium drone on and on and on?