The End of the World: Bart Ehrman on What the Bible Really Says About the End

The Michael Shermer Show # 334
You’ll find nearly everything the Bible has to say about the end in the Book of Revelation: a mystifying prophecy filled with bizarre symbolism, violent imagery, mangled syntax, confounding contradictions, and very firm ideas about the horrors that await us all. But whether you understand the book as a literal description of what will soon come to pass, interpret it as a metaphorical expression of hope for those suffering now, or only recognize its highlights from pop culture, what you think Revelation reveals…is almost certainly wrong. In Armageddon, acclaimed New Testament authority Bart D. Ehrman delves into the most misunderstood - and possibly the most dangerous - book of the Bible, exploring the horrifying social and political consequences of expecting an imminent apocalypse.
Shermer and Ehrman discuss: Ehrman’s religious journey • Who wrote the Bible and why? • how to read the Bible and the book of Revelation • Who wrote Revelation and why? • why Jesus spoke in parables • why worry about climate change if the world is going to end soon? • David Koresh and Waco • Reagan and end times politics • how Jesus became a capitalist and militarist • faith healers, televangelists, and other Christian con artists • Christian ethics and what Jesus really said about the poor and needy.
Bart D. Ehrman is a leading authority on the New Testament and the history of early Christianity and a Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. The author of six New York Times bestsellers, he has written or edited more than thirty books, including Misquoting Jesus, How Jesus Became God, The Triumph of Christianity, Did Jesus Exist?, God’s Problem, The Lost Gospel of Judas Iscariot, and Heaven and Hell. Ehrman has also created nine popular audio and video courses for The Great Courses. His books have been translated into 27 languages, with over two million copies and courses sold. His new book is Armageddon: What the Bible Really Says About the End.
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[@josephrohland5604]

"Don't worry about the world ending today. It's already tomorrow in Australia." ~charles schultz

[@sidstovell2177]

Thanks. 😂

[@felixfourcolor]

poor the aussies

[@albionicamerican8806]

_Revelation_ allegedly prophesies a world in "the future" where nations are ruled by kings, people own slaves, warriors ride horses into battle and fight with swords, and they are attacked by mythological creatures. This sounds more like _Game of Thrones_ than the kind of world we really live in.

[@branteus]

More like Warhammer 40k

[@pdcdesign9632]

The GOAT herders who wrote the babble could only envision 100 years into the future. They expected the world to end that soon. 😬🙄

[@patricksee10]

You mean the world that is being ruined before our eyes, seas rising, cities flooding, nuclear exchange imminent. Famine and dislocation our immediate shared future. The kings and slaves you abhor are coming to post apocalyptic town near you. The wait is almost over!

[@Se7enStars369]

Firstly start from the idea that the Bible talks about The Kingdom of God on Earth that is His Temple = Human Body. Then... you will see another story with another scenario.

[@Dissandou]

Revelation doesn’t place its prophecies thousands of years later though, it says “soon”

[@porgguy4962]

Something I always liked about The Life of Brian is how Jesus is depicted just as one of many end time prophets of that era. I don't know if there was one on every corner in Jerusalem but its fun to imagine.

[@josephturner7569]

"He's the saviour. I should know, I've followed a few".

[@marksimons4108]

George Harrison who funded the movie became a born again Christian days before he died of cancer in Switzerland due to his great friendship with racing driver and Pastor 'Emerson Fittipaldi' finally accepting Jesus as his Lord and Saviour playing Christian songs on his eukele with renewed joy in his heart Amen🔥👑🕊

[@jullietmburu9672]

@@marksimons4108 I grew up Christian, and one issue has always stood out to me: why do christians worry about non-believers, when they could pray that the spirit transforms the already believers, because when people leave the church, it's because of what fellow christians do. Why rejoice when one person gets saved, when within their own walls are broods of vipers who make more people lose faith? Why do they protect these people and say "Touch not the Lord's anointed" when these issues are brought to light?? Amen 🙏🏾!!

[@tomboughan2718]

@@marksimons4108 Never heard this.

[@tomboughan2718]

@@josephturner7569 Another good quote from the movie was from Mother Mary: He's (Jesus) is a naughty boy."

[@Longtack55]

Q: What do we call a Bible scholar? A: An Atheist. My father dwelt excessively on Daniel and Revelations, and consequently our lives were miserable and frightening.

[@felixfourcolor]

That's not true, there are many christian bible scholars.

[@paulrobinson4439]

Superb.Bart you are like a counsellor at AA. I classify myself as a recovering Christian who had been fooled by the preaching of fire and damnation. I regret that it took me so long to get help.

[@Vedioviswritingservice]

Your life will be over in the blink of an eye you fool.

[@modestalchemist]

You made it, and that's what matters.

[@jbooks888]

Don't worry, you'll have plenty of time to regret your latest decision.

[@andrewstunich8173]

When you die you will discover that you had it right but hen were fooled.

[@jbooks888]

@@andrewstunich8173 Yeah, well your chickens have come home to roost!

[@2994485]

Very much enjoyed this conversation. Some arguments I like to use against Christians and the Second Coming: 1) It makes no sense that Jesus would be talking about 2,000 years in the future, without saying that he is talking about 2,000 years in the future. 2) It makes no sense that he would start his sentences with “Truly, I tell you…” when that phrase means “I am speaking straightforwardly,” not “I am speaking in riddles, which require esoteric interpretation.” 3) It makes no sense that the Bible is suffused with the concept of “soon” (Rev. 1:1 “things which must shortly come to pass”; 1 Pet 4:7 “the end of all things is at hand,” etc., etc.) Two thousand years in the future, is not soon. Why would Jesus tell the apostles “Watch therefore” (Matt. 24:42) if Armageddon is going to occur only long after they have all died?

[@brianb4877]

Always great hearing from Bart!

[@DavidSmith-oy4of]

People are talking about the apocalypse like there's no tomorrow.

[@patrickwilliamscoaching]

Amazing that Jesus is viewed as this loving and compassionate man (he may very well have been) but then Christians simultaneously believe he is speaking in Revelation 😂

[@notsocrates9529]

Duality; as above so below; polar opposites and balance.

[@cmorrison5466]

The Late Great Planet Earth was the catalyst for my joining a Doomsday Christian Fundamentalist cult, er, I mean "church". Wasted a whole decade of my life waiting for The End. Glad I left because most didn't, and completely wasted their lives living in fear and poverty. I admit that the fear of Armageddon still stayed with me through the decades. Thanks so much for this helpful podcast. It was the key that released the final shackle in the back of my mind.

[@Livengoodproject]

Good for you. It does take a long time to get free of it

[@Livengoodproject]

Hal Lindsey seemed so genuine and sincere. He may have been…. He really got me into it. Ravi what’s his name,the apologetics guy who did sex stuff, is the guy that woke me up completely.

[@cmorrison5466]

@@Livengoodproject Ravi Zacharias. He was pretty slick since he could hide behind his "intelligent, highly educated persona" delivered with a sexy British accent. I agree that Hal Lindsey seemed to care but I was a gullible teenager at the time. I'm older and much wiser now.

[@Jonnyvids14]

I wouldn't look at that time as "wasted". It was a valuable experience that you learned from. All experiences, good and bad, can be used for good. I spent 38 YEARS in the Baptist church. And although I came to realize that many of their doctrines are false, I do not think it was a waste of time, at all. I am grateful for the experience. It allowed me to KNOW what it's like to BE one who is conditioned to believe things, based on nothing more than the beliefs of others. This did not cause me to become an "atheist" however. I just realized that THEIR version of "God" falls short in explaining what I now see more clearly.

[@marksimons4108]

And then the plandemic hit......!👀

[@franciscomendoza7765]

2 of my most beloved teachers ❤❤

[@fretnesbutke3233]

One of the things I really like about Professor Bart is that we have a fundamentalist youth in common. It really is a strange quirk of human psychology that we have that potential for fanaticism and self-deception.

[@TristanColgate]

As an IT engineer that had to do all the prep for the y2k bug (was lucky enough to have booked holiday on the big day though), I can promise you the reason a whole tonne of tech didn't fall over was 'cos well all worked our arses off patching everything. (and yeah, the things we didn't patch fell over). It has become "a fact" that we all lost our minds over nothing, and it is simply not true. We knew exactly what was going to fail, why, and exactly how longer we had to fix it (and, it's frankly terrifying that we were still patching stuff in the weeks before).

[@sonicspring6448]

Same with me: I had the job of going through the control system code for a small power station and fixing the Y2K bugs. I found a couple of hundred of them, most of which would have been harmless, but a few would have created severe problems. The search was done, the bad bugs were fixed, and there were no problems on the big rollover. Amazing how urban myths spring up and take root.

[@jullietmburu9672]

Forgive me for asking, but why did you guys need to patch the code? What was missing, and why wasn't there any issue b4 2000? Thanks in advance 🙏🏾

[@sonicspring6448]

@@jullietmburu9672 the problem was that dates were represented by only 2 digits for the year in many of the computer systems written 30-40 years ago. So the year 1999 would be represented by 99 in the computer code, and the year number would go back to 00 when the year 2000 came in. This could disrupt systems that depended on a correct sequence of financial transactions or electrical system changes. So there was no disruption in the years before 2000. People coded year numbers as only 2 digits because computer memory was scarcer and more expensive, in the early days when a lot of system software was written. Programmers would often do anything to save a couple of bytes of data in their code.

[@jullietmburu9672]

@@sonicspring6448 oh, ok. Very many thanks for taking the time to explain it so clearly 👌🏾 God bless (if you believe) 🙏🏾💜

[@sonicspring6448]

Thank you, @@jullietmburu9672. What a nice reply. Yes I do, and blessings are real.

[@MichaelYoder1961]

Love Bart! Great interview, Michael!

[@tishw4576]

I normally have a hard time getting through the whole video without having to stop for one reason or another. This time I purposely stayed with this one until the end. I can't wait to listen to the Great Controversies of the Bible. Those types of reads are so much fun. This was a great interview and lots of fun.

[@bryandraughn9830]

In going to church and private schools during my formative years, I was permanently brainwashed against the idea of conforming to any religion...ever. I think they need a better approach. Those people taught me everything there is to know about fear mongering and hatred. The key is honesty. "Do I really believe any of this crap?" Nope. Be perfectly honest with yourself and everyone else and you will never have to latch on to lies, deception, or persuasion. Honesty is powerful because it's the truth.

[@carlgranados7106]

"The Late Great Planet Earth" was huge when I was a teenager in the 70's. Of course, as with all such books Christian or not, all its predictions proved false but believers still believe anyway.

[@NeilRieck]

I love that picture of Carl Sagan on the wall behind your left shoulder

[@marksimons4108]

Prophet(profit) of scientism!

[@NeilRieck]

@@marksimons4108 Prophet vs. profit. Interesting word play which, I think, applies more to to religion.

[@jullietmburu9672]

@@NeilRieck nice 👌🏾

[@jaclynrichmond1049]

Me and my husband met as Christians, both reading Lee strobels book " the case for faith" , which addresses accepting suffering while believing in an all loving God. 6 years later we were both atheists.

[@vtino4825]

the True God exists ABOVE the creator of the physical universe.

[@remigio7515]

What a tragedy

[@epicofatrahasis3775]

​@@vtino4825 Evidence?

[@marksimons4108]

Atheist marxism on the rise as endtime approaches exactly asJesus predicted!

[@marksimons4108]

@@epicofatrahasis3775 Infra red scan on the shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo attest as witnesses to Jesus death and resurrection Amen🔥👑🕊

[@txdmsk]

Bart is a great writer. I read and loved many of his books. Interestig topics. I wish christians were aware of the things discussed in them.

[@RolanRoyce]

The Book of Daniel was very precise about when the end time would come and the righteous would rise from the grave, in chapter 12. Daniel says it was revealed to him that 1335 days after the daily sacrifice was abolished the end time would arrive. Well that happened when Herod's temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD, so apparently the end time occurred a little under 4 years thereafter. That's odd because Josephus didn't bother to mention it when he wrote Wars of the Jews in 75 AD.

[@richardvass1462]

That was talking about the end of the covenant because they crucified Christ. And the dead did rise it's in the account of when Jesus died. Everything got dark and the dead did rise. Peter talked about it at Pentecost that it was fulfillment of prophecy.

[@RolanRoyce]

@@richardvass1462 Pretty sure the "end time" didn't mean an end of the covenant to be the exclusive god of the Exodus people. Jesus can't void God's covenants, only god himself can do it, he has to announce in a loud voice "okay, the covenant is void now, you don't need to obey the ten commandments anymore".

[@RolanRoyce]

@@blackswanrising2024 Well, one things for sure, if the end time came it was considerably less dramatic than one would imagine.

[@richardvass1462]

@@RolanRoyce Paul the apostle explains it. Jesus was the God of the Old testament in his pre-incarnate form. He was the one on the mountain with Moses. He was the one who visited Abraham and gave the promise. When they killed Jesus that was the death of the testator. So The testament was only in force until the death of the testator. That's why we have a new covenant in his blood. Unless you actually believe the Bible you won't understand.

[@RolanRoyce]

@@richardvass1462 Was Paul psychic? Because how else would he be in a position to know that? You believe anything Romans tell you huh?

[@margiejcupcakeprincess4711]

Kenneth Copeland almost a billionaire he has to own his multiple jets so he doesn’t have to travel with a bunch of demons.

[@onlyme972]

Copeland is a demon

[@marksimons4108]

False prophets(profits) as prophesied by Jesus two millennia ago!

[@jullietmburu9672]

@@marksimons4108 clearly the Holy Spirit has no problem with that. Why do the top dogs get away with eating the flock for years upon years, yet a lowly member of the flock gets punished as soon as he sins. I've never understood that logic.

[@francesco5581]

i see the problem of evil as the same as the existence of darkness necessary to see light, the depths necessary to have mountains, the silence necessary to hear sounds...

[@vtino4825]

evil is just an aspect of the Creator, the dark side of him. but the True God is BEYOND and above the Creator.

[@tommcmahon3200]

Bart is always great to listen to - always presents his ideas with intelligence, clarity and humour

[@avajoyporter9064]

Fantastic podcast. loved it, Informative and down to Earth. "Awesome".

[@_S0me__0ne]

I'd been raised in a fundamentalist home and my parents were big into eschatology. We were dispensationalist premillennial pretribulationalists, pretty sure the end times were real and going to be headed by the EU and the Roman Catholic Church. My parents listened to Zola Levitt, Dave Reagan, and other premillennialists. Around 2008 I listened to a lecture by Joel Richardson and changed my views from premill to postmill and from EU/RC to Islam as the eschatological focus. I became an acquaintance, having met with Joel over coffee or lunch a couple times over the years and emailing and texting here and there. But, a funny thing happened a couple years ago... I lost my faith. I deconverted, and so, I shed all my eschatological beliefs. I'd been dealing with internal doubts about Christianity and the Bible for years. Haven't reached out to Joel yet to tell him. 😂

[@vtino4825]

it is normal for those who are into dogmas, fundamentalism, keen eschatolo-geeks to later de-convert. it is because they spent all their lives living in their mental conceptual realm. they have NEVER experienced the spiritual realities mentioned in the Gospels, because those can only be experienced when one has entered and opened up the innermost part of their being. the Divine realities mentioned in the Gospels are NOT mental conceptions to be taken by faith or dogmas that needs to be defended; those realities are to be EXPERIENCED personally in the innermost part of man, which will then produce transformation of human nature from the inside out.

[@Seekthetruth3000]

All religions are man-made. The worst religion is Islam. Be good, do no harm, and live and let live.

[@marksimons4108]

@@vtino4825 Amen 🔥👑🕊

[@marksimons4108]

'Satan only comes to lie,steal and destroy' Anyway he can, he will use the fallen carnal world against your faith in God as he knows all your weaknesses as many have backslid away from the faith this way,but for what reason did you turn your back on Christian faith and what did you replace it with?

[@sixvee5147]

The Book of Revelations, really only revels what a bunch of nonsense it is.

[@jullietmburu9672]

About "corporate Jesus" and how Christianity is entrepreneurial: we have a joke in my country, "If all else fails, start a church. You'll never go broke." And they are right, anyone who starts a church, even a street preacher, makes enough money to not need a job. Their entire gospel is about giving the church all you have, and God will finally like you. Great conversation guys!! New sub!!

[@U4Eye]

You have a weird view of Christianity and you can't just started Church as God hears every word from your lips it will all be known when you die

[@Justin_Beaver564]

I don't know, these days a lot of churches are going bankrupt. You at least have to be somewhat entertaining I guess.

[@jullietmburu9672]

@@Justin_Beaver564 its part of the job. The more charismatic you are, the higher your "income"

[@karenhess619]

I am not a student of history or whatever. My degree is in business. But I am a student and I still study topics of interest to me. I am willing to change my mind with new information. I have talked to hundreds on these topics. Nobody has been able to provide a description or explanation that satisfied my question of the truth. I embarked on a study for truth. There is no truth or evidence. I tried, I really tried to find the truth that inspired so many of my neighbors. It wasn't there. Those I know can't provide the proof. But they still try to convince me of their truth as they see it. Their determination to convince me of 'their truth" w/o evidence leads me further from their assertions.

[@ReLair88]

Truth is not an individual thing. No such thing as their truth or your truth. If it's the truth, is is true whether or not you believe it. Has nothing to do with whether it appeals to your intellect or even your morality.

[@richardvass1462]

Those who come to Christ must first believe that he exists. All you have to do is pray to God and ask him to show you. People that have converted to Christian have good reason. We know it's true.

[@jullietmburu9672]

For me it wasn't about proof. I already believed. It's my experience with the "body of Christ", especially church leaders/teachers of the word. Talk about being hustled!!! Talk about someone intentionally misleading you because they have an agenda... Using the word of God! And they know how to cherry-pick verses that support the agenda. They take advantage of your pain... They use everything to get you to join, and the moment you resist being used, you are told the devil is "hardening your heart".. I've been guilt-tripped to pledge money I didn't even have.. When my health failed and money dried up, they disappeared. They got busy, suddenly they didn't have time to pray with me anymore. Even one pastor who was like an uncle ghosted me when I got sick - yet when I still was liquid, he would make the effort to meet every week, listen to me, counsel me, reminding me that I have a family in Christ... He also got busy!! I finally had the chance to discover God for myself, without all the christian noises to confuse me, and I realized I never really knew God - I only knew what these other people said was God. I don't blame atheists.

[@bloozee]

Many of us technical people did a lot of work to avoid the worst effects of the Y2K problem. Some systems still failed when I was working the midnight shift that night. We need preachers to be on nightshift at the " end of days"!

[@thescoobymike]

Honestly looking more forward to Bart’s book on early Christian ethics

[@pbinnj3250]

Michael. As one who is just discovering your work, I wanted to express gratitude towards your accessibility. Perhaps I’m responding to your gentleness and your kind approach to conversation. It helps when listening to discussions that have the possibility of changing my mind about things. This process of exposure to ideas isn’t always comfortable for someone my age. It’s like being led into a hall with low light with the possibility of painfully bumping into things or worse, misunderstanding what I’m seeing. Because the journey is worth the effort, it’s helpful that it’s kind.

[@jeremiahrajanesan829]

Very useful in understanding different cults. Thank you!

[@polymathpark]

Burt is such a great researcher, great demeanor, genuinely searching for truth, as does Shermer.

[@CrabtreeBob]

But Ernie is more lovable.

[@polymathpark]

@@CrabtreeBob oh you're just hilarious xD

[@vtino4825]

nope. westerners in capitalist countries are just ivory tower comfort loving people.

[@Jonnyvids14]

First I want to say that I love listening to interviews like this and I have always found both of these men to be honest men who genuinely seek truth. I have read several of Bart's books and found them to be excellent. In fact, they provoked me to do my own seeking into the things I merely "believed". In the first 15 minutes of this interview, there was talk about "free will", choosing to do "good", "suffering", etc., as if giving reason as to why God (any God, Creator, etc.) does NOT exist. I have some points\questions about this for those who identify as "atheists": The fact that there IS pain & suffering in this world does not give any evidence that a creator exists or not. It might provide evidence of the HEBREW "God", or "Christian" perception of the Hebrew "God", not existing, but it does not provide evidence that a DIFFERENT "God" exists. Perhaps one that CAN'T control the pain and suffering. Note: "Free will" would not be free will if we were CONTROLLED to behave a certain way. If one is given free will to do good, then it also comes with the bad. Bart spoke of our free will choice to do "good" to others. Assuming that atheists are right, and there is NO God, and we really are just a bunch of evolved ROCKS, who decides what is "good" or "bad"? Is a lion "bad" for killing zebras? Is something "good" only because the majority of humans say so? If that is the case, then what can be said of the society of humans that has a majority who say it's "good" to invade another nation and kill them? Does that become a "good" thing, merely because MOST people agree that it's "good"? If I say something is "bad", but nobody else in my group thinks so, who is right? Punching somebody in the nose, as Bart mentioned, might seem "bad" to MOST people, but if we evolved from the same rocks that lions did, does that mean that when a lion harms a zebra that he too is doing "bad"? Should he be punished for it? What if not ALL humans have evolved to the same level of KNOWING what is "right" or "wrong"? Or, what if humans really are influenced by forces greater than us, which would explain why some folks are compelled to do good, or right, while others are compelled to do bad, or wrong. What makes Bart who he is? Is it his own "free will", or was Bart BORN to be who he is? Did he choose bible study because he hated it, or because he liked it? What caused him to like it vs. being an auto mechanic? Do we REALLY choose the things we do because of "free will", or are we DRIVEN to choose things by forces beyond our comprehension? Why do some folks love seeking truth while others could care less? One thing is certain, humans seem to be VERY DIFFERENT than the animal world when it comes to KNOWING what is "right" vs. "wrong". But not ALL humans. So what is REALLY going on with "evolution"? Can ROCKS really evolve into creatures that can CHOOSE to love or hate? Can ROCKS really evolve into creatures that have a conscience that can feel guilt? Do lions feel guilty after killing a zebra? Does ANY animal feel guilty after brutally killing their prey? Yet look how many soldiers come back from invading another nation, only to suffer terrible guilt, so much so, that approx. 25 take their OWN lives EVERY DAY. I doubt any lions or sharks are doing that. There is SOMETHING invisible that compels us. But it does SEEM that not ALL humans are driven by these same forces. I think all rational folks would agree that there are humans who do GOOD, and humans that do BAD (evil - harm to others). Did ROCKS really evolve into these two different characteristics? This does not mean that "Christian" theology is correct. Nor should it mean that just because they may be wrong, that there is no "God". Perhaps they were just seeking in the wrong places, thereby coming to a flawed conclusion about WHO God (or Gods) is and WHAT "He" (or they) is capable of.

[@LanceLovett]

Life Of Brian is awesome. "I'm Brian! ...And so is my wife!"

[@HegelsOwl]

The world was supposed to end when Ezekial wrote, because Yahweh changed his mind about "prophecy," saying, "None of my words will be delayed any longer; whatever I say will be fulfilled" (12.28).

[@albionicamerican8806]

I don't know about other atheists, but I certainly believe in the rapture: I can see that Christians are starting to disappear. 🙂

[@thedragonofechigo7878]

😂😂

[@annahgibbus8]

👏👏👏🤣👍

[@BrianNeil]

😂👋😆

[@fishman4329]

Actually of late the churches I'm going to are growing. More kids etc.

[@albionicamerican8806]

@@fishman4329 The social-science data are showing that Christianity in the United States is going into decline.

[@porgguy4962]

Hiya, Ex JW here and while the JWs definitely predicted Armageddon many times in their early years, their most memorable prediction and failure might have been in 1975. After that they clung to a prediction that the end will come within the one "Generation that shall not pass away" from Matthew. This generation or time period started in 1914 when they claim Christ retuned invisibly and began to rule over God's Kingdom. Of course, over the years, the time period this "generation" represented has been stretched further and further as each prediction would fail. The last exact date range specified was 80 years, so in 1994/5 when 1914 plus the 80 years brought no Armageddon they once again revamped their interpretation of the word generation to mean multiple "overlapping generations" in some convoluted explanation only a cult member would claim makes any sense. They still hold on to this one to this day though. Along with this end times prediction they also too point to current events as a sign of the times as they call Russia "The King of the North" and the US as "The King of the South" who, according to scripture, are to battle immediately before Armageddon. Great ep Michael. I'm a big fan of Ehrman.

[@philpoulos572]

There is only 2 criteria, magic and prediction, of which neither exists. There was no magic in the past, and there is none now, and there will not be any in the future No one can predict the future, NO. one. As Dr brown put it in a film, it hasn't happened yet, that's why it called ...the future.

[@timothymulholland7905]

Two of my favorites! Wonderful. I hope this book helps keep religious people from destroying life on earth.

[@ABARANOWSKISKI]

This is just great! Two of my favourite people talking! That was a fantastic interview, I listened to the whole thing and thoroughly enjoyed it. Excited to read Dr. Ehrman's new book! A topic of incredible interest to me, as I was raised believing in this stuff, and saw through it long ago, but it continues to be really interesting to me. Keep up the good work!

[@jbooks888]

They did nothing but lie and misrepresent the Bible the whole time, but you're not going to get out a Bible and check what they're saying, are you?

[@theitineranthistorian2024]

shermer, my same age, different paths to still be here. great conversation with bart.

[@JCResDoc94]

very interesting. always enjoy barts work. _JC

[@HGALAXIES]

Amazingly informative, as always!

[@barclaybehie7787]

my lawyer gets phone calls from people who have donated everything because “end of times” these people do not get their money back. Most of the time they signed a contract with the church. Blessed are the sheep.

[@jullietmburu9672]

The fact that the church required a contract makes it sketchy.. why need a contract if the end is coming?? Unless they need a plan B when the chicken come home to roost! In my country, we have a joke.. "If all fails, start a church. You'll never go broke!!"

[@Levelistchampion]

The casual comparison of Y2K to the rapture is appalling. My brother is an IT specialist and he was the first to tell me that there are conspiracy theories about whether Y2K was a manufactured crisis for...reasons. Weren't there problems in the last few years where some quick fixes that didn't do the job thoroughly enough caused major headaches?

[@laserwolf130]

awesome conversation ....

[@hebrewenglishbibleread9941]

I keep thinking that's a picture of James Brown behind Michael. 🙂 Great interview! Bart Ehrman, a true prophet to the (thinking) nations.

[@ShamikaCrouch]

I thought it was a very tanned Tom Jones😊😊

[@57cactus1]

It's Carl Sagan.

[@thescoobymike]

Wow I never heard that story about James Tabor and David Koresh before

[@hunter_lite]

As a nonbeliever I can imagine certain societal gains through a rapture.

[@michaelanthony5509]

It's one thing to believe or not believe When you make it your mission to clash with folks whose beliefs are contrary to yours, you become what you despise.

[@curtisowen]

Where can I get the Carl Sagan picture in the background? It's awesome 🙂

[@MelissaThompson432]

I actually enjoyed this quite a lot.

[@stephen_pfrimmer]

thank you Ehrman

[@larrytaylor693]

Let's talk about the older religions and other belief systems how they differ how they are the same vary interesting stuff I've heard all this plenty enough

[@aminam9201]

Very likely this not the first fine tuned universe of its type, but not necessarily the same laws of physics, life can emerge in different universes with different laws of physics.

[@gregwaters7830]

Michael Shermer was in my Boy Scout troop in LA Crescenta, CA. All 11 of us. Nice kid. Really quiet. It is funny that we went in to diametrically opposed directions.

[@kimberpalmer9982]

Thanks for dividing into chapters

[@busyb8676]

Very informative intrview. Thank you.

[@rp6762]

Most of this conversation are basically digressions. And I like it 😀

[@Unmoved12345]

Great conversation -- informative and funny as hell.

[@pbinnj3250]

KZbinr CosmicSkeptic points out a challenge to god that would be difficult to counter. He points to the needless suffering of all other animals. They live in constant fear of hunger and thirst, and face predators that will kill them in the most sadistic way. Free will can explain that.

[@robbielee2148]

KZbinr me says it's all about balance as proven & demonstrated by the Reintroduction of Wolves to Yellowstone. It was beneficial to all life forms, in fact the entire environment. Plants suffer if all you got is plant eaters munching.

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

Thank you. Watching from Alaska. Speaking of real world consequences: The Vallow / Daybell Case.

[@AlanWinterboy]

Great interview. My favorite Jesus story/novella, hands down, is Michael Moorcock's 'Behold the Man.' It's science fiction (about a theoretical physicist who invents a time machine to go back and search for the historical Jesus). It had a huge impact on me as young person, even though I was still a believer then.

[@baizhanghuaihai2298]

Michael, please do an interview with Michael Hudson, the economist, concerning what you said at the end about why people believe in conspiracy theories because they don’t understand about basic economic history, which is indeed complex and lengthy. I bet Prof. Hudson would likely do an interview from that angle, it’s a good angle.

[@baizhanghuaihai2298]

Or Radhika Desai.

[@BenDover-tj8vf]

In the end the all father will call all the fallen warriors from all the resting places and they will all fight to together to restore the universe..... See its easy .

[@Charles-wq1uh]

"A friendly discussion is as stimulating as the sparks that fly when iron strikes iron." Probs 27v17 TLB Ah! It sounds like thorns crackling in a fire.

[@m.j.carlson8246]

This is great. I personally watched a version of "The Great Disappointment" in the 70s in St. Pete, Fl, based on that same book. The same thing happened - the person who made the claim picked date after date, all wrong, which he couldn't accept, and now he and his "chosen few" have formed a tiny cult. Sad.

[@jackevans5611]

Ellen White SDA?

[@Horvat04]

What glasses is bart wearing in this video? It looks super good

[@michaelhall2709]

Okay - I cannot leave this earth before reading “Brian and Jesus.”

[@ksjazzguitaryt]

I fun talk, but you didn't talk much about Revelation. I guess I'll have to buy the book.

[@richard6502]

Being a fan of Star Trek, gave me hope and a belief that word is not coming to end anytime soon 😊

[@Nazar33]

The 3rd temple movement among Christians is absolutely insane unless it can be built somewhere other than the temple Mount.

[@jimmypixxel]

A very interesting manner to read the Bible is by reading it as though you are reading a novel. Start from the beginning and work your way through, not treating each book or scripture as a separate entity. You'll start to see how it's actually all connected. The Old Testament is almost like the original story and the New Testament is the new version. You can almost see the characters from the OT repeated in the NT. Try it. Skeptic or Born Again.

[@jullietmburu9672]

I did that. I ended up with more questions, and when I asked them, i was told the devil could be misleading me by planting questions. Other times, I was given patches of scripture that support the narrative. It's like, if I decide to show up in a hospital for free elective surgery because health care is a human right. I can choose to ignore all the other factors that intertwine with my right for healthcare, and how the system actually works. Lots of the passages were changed to suit the opinions of that time. Pagan mythologies were adapted as biblical events. Prophesies in the old were misused to prove a point in the NT (especially writings by Paul). I don't know the best way to read the Bible, but it does require an open mind.

[@sidstovell2177]

Didn't The Great Books have The Bible to be Read as Literature?

[@aminam9201]

It’s more complicated than that! there are those manipulated, misled and abused humans since thousands of years ago using highly advanced technology that can do what the irrationals call miracles. it’s not a matter of joke, it’s a real mankind tragedy.

[@kimbye1]

What a treat, two of my favourites having such an interesting discussion.

[@jingle3]

"Jesus and Brian Exploring the Historical Jesus and his Times via Monty Python's Life of Brian" Joan E. Taylor (Anthology Editor), Terry Jones (Foreword)

[@porgguy4962]

Thanks!

[@marksimons4108]

George Harrison who funded the movie finall gave himself to Jesus before he died of cancer in Switzerland attested to by his great friend Emerson Fittipaldi (F1 champion)and his pastor who where with George for 3 days before his passing Amen🔥👑🕊

[@catherinemunroe3960]

well done ,thank you

[@jonadams8841]

45:19 thank you for mentioning this movie, Dr Ehrman! I found it on KZbin and just finished it. Wow, what a cool movie!

[@Suzume-Shimmer]

Which one ? He mentions at least 3 .

[@Chad-xs2de]

@@Suzume-Shimmer Jesus of Montreal

[@Suzume-Shimmer]

@@Chad-xs2de Thanx 👍

[@davidwright8432]

One thing (particularly scholars) don't realize, who try ever-more ingenious, ever less-plausible 'interpretations' of what Jesus said, is that he wasn't talking to a graduate seminar in Biblical hermeneutics! He was talking to everyday fisherfolk, carpenters, day-laborers. And he spoke pretty directly to them, in terms they would understand - or why the parables? I think he said what he meant, and meant what he said. Which cannot by itself guarantee the factual truth of anything he said! One can simply be - gasp! - mistaken!

[@Chris-op7yt]

the problem of evil is certainly a consideration in early stages of deconversion however, it's not a serious question once the spell of religion no longer has a hold on you. that's because there is no fictional duality of good/evil in the real world we live in. it's a problem for theists only.

[@vtino4825]

😆

[@MelissaThompson432]

"Money loves me!" Reverend Ike....

[@ALavin-en1kr]

Free will is to correspond or not to correspond with Reality. If Reality is all there is and God is all there is, then in corresponding with Reality (Absolute Reality that is) we are corresponding with God.

[@Skymannot6939]

Fantastic conversation gentlemen, clarified some issues for me. Thank you.

[@andretasse1607]

1:38:45 I was raised among fetuses in jars: My mother was fighting Dr. Morgentaler with "Le Front commun pour le respect de la vie", as far back as the early 70's... Mind you, that was in Québec...

[@jullietmburu9672]

Wow.. what was that all about?

[@mikmop]

Due to a lack of experienced trumpeteers, the end of the world has been postponed.

[@richardhedd3080]

I think even believers don’t really believe in the healing power of god because they know not bother to pray for someone’s amputated leg to grow back. Why do they know god can’t cure a amputation?

[@faithcomesbyhearing724]

Thank you jesus for your sacrifice on the ✝️.

[@nHautamaki]

The only rational argument I've heard for a belief in 'God' is the one Jordan Peterson makes in his 10 part series on the psychological significance of Genesis, which is largely cribbed from Spinoza but updated with a lot of modern understanding of psychology. The problem with this argument is that most Christians don't consider it Christian, which is their problem because it's the one thing that could possibly preserve the church as a relevant institution over the next couple generations.

[@craigpoer]

I find it funny that intellectuals of today think they can use reason to kill Christianity. First Christians were literally fed to lions. Most religions fill a hole in the soul formost humans that reason doesn't.

[@vtino4825]

wrong. God is to be EXPERIENCED deeply in the innermost part of human being. the result is an ongoing transformation of human nature and consciousness from the inside out, making human beings channels of God, manifesting God's power and love in this physical realm. these are beyond the ordinary human mind to comprehend

[@oliverjamito9902]

Students what is gnashing of teeth? Separation from sincere conversations unto God of life for the living? Who quench thy thirst? Remember sincere conversations came with all thy lives was DESIRED 1ST! Likewise what is creation? Can't exist without shared the little "i" sitting with the AM. HERE YE ALL! Keep watch! Unto all given New eyes to see beyond the eyes can see! What is a Thief? Nor i come as a Thief? Owner need not to steal! But salvation comes with washing thy feet and wiping thy tears from thy eyes. Who love with patience, mercy, and grace?

[@arawiri]

Love them 😂

[@Jen-e-sis]

I grew up Bible studying and reading the late great planet earth also, I still own that book from Hal Lindsey

[@lindamcneilly7389]

I have faith,love God and his son.Christianity is not falling away,many are afraid to admit that they are Christians because off persecution in many countries around the world.May God be with us all as this world gets darker everyday because of men,women,greed,power and riches they crave and their total distain for the rest off humanity.I sincerely hope you change your mind about our Lord Jesus Christ,God go with you.

[@moniquedelaney7958]

Jesus of Montreal was very big in the free thinkers sphere , french and German speakers

[@suetipping4841]

I see and understand now how the one world religion is formed. These discussions are examples of the falling away of Christians during end times. This must happen and is part of prophecy.

[@FrogInPot]

Perhaps one way to look at it is that there was God the Father and Holy Spirit before time begins, then God the Father is "Cloned" so to speak, to become Christ. Would you then say Christ is the same as the Father? No. Would you then say Christ is God? Yes. etc etc I'm a former JW and now a spiritual Agnostic and being a former somewhat Arian Christian I of course always struggled with the concept of the Trinity, until I considered the former mentioned concept. Its not a perfect analogy but I think it helps a bit.

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

substantive nature, kingdom of God

[@angeladinapoli5363]

No one can or ever will pick a date. For that will always be God’s call…

[@derekwalker1114]

Christians have seen 2000 years of predecessors who were wrong to think Jesus meant he was coming any minute when he said soon. They even say soon is definited from God's perspective. 1 year being like 1000 years. And yet at the same time they believe for the same reasons as their predecessors that now soon means soon in human terms. Why are they right unlike their predecessors?

[@adocampo1]

Rev as poetry shows 3 lines: seal trumpet & bowl. Seal as hidden wisdom, trumpet as success of science & bowl as practiced wisdom or contemplation in action. Meaning to act from 1st principles, because the agi is acting from 1st principles... it's not the end of the world but the end of ignorance. Or maybe it's a double edge sword..

[@ppetal1]

You mean it's an obtuse parable and not a stream of psychotic bile? Are you a Baptist?