Smoothbore Spencer: Tracing a Mystery Gun

[@RobertoDonatti]

Several hundred Spencer carbines were imported by Argentina for the war with Paraguay in the late 1860's. I came across two of this carbines in a small gun shop in the the north of the country where the hostilities took place. One of them was untouched and in very good condition so I bought it. The other had been bored out to take a 28 gauge shell and the block altered for central fire percussion. Neither of them had the magazine cutoff. All the markings and side rails and sights were untouched.

[@caiosentomo6525]

Very nice, i have a spencer carbine manifactured by Falisse & Trapmann in belgium for Brazil

[@norinvaux]

Ancient Bubbas: A History Channel Exclusive.

[@Michael_Smith-Red_No.5]

+norinvaux Did Bubbas build the pyramids? Did tobacco spit make the Nazca lines? I can't make too much fun, though, because I live in the South, and it would be unseemly.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+Michael Smith It was aliens.

[@MainAvel]

+Forgotten Weapons No, lizards.

[@Bladsmith]

+MainAvel Lizard aliens!

[@dasfsadg]

+Forgotten Weapons Well duh. How else do you explain it?

[@Bikewer]

I know that "Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show" used a number of smoothbore weapons and shot cartridges, not just to make their "trick" marksmanship easier but also for safety....They didn't want solid bullets flying into the nearest town. Any chance the dating on this one might coincide?

[@billbrasky6827]

Mark Werner Makes sense to me.

[@onmilo]

The rifle screams Bannerman conversion modified back to a rifle "Look" to dupe a prospective buyer into thinking it is an original Spencer rifle with a very poor bore which collectors do not generally concern themselves with. Appears the Bannerman markings were ground off the top receiver flat to further dupe a prospective buyer. If you measure the barrel length it wouldn't surprise me you find it is 29" and not 30" long.

[@ilikehardplay]

Could have been a Bannerman's gun... Although both Sears and Montgomery Ward also list them in the catalogs past the turn of the 20th century. I think it unlikely that Bannerman would have done the second conversion from carbine-shotgun to rifle.... Since they still had plenty of original guns to sell to civil war reenactors during the early 1960s centennial. (you can still find burned 56-50 brass in the remnants of Bannerman's Castle on Pollepel Island on the Hudson River) On the other hand, the shotgun conversion might have been done by them...as they (and other military surplus dealers) were sitting on a *mountain* of such guns in the late 19th century.

[@V3RTIGO222]

I like the deconstruction of that guns history... hope to see more videos going into that depth in the future c:

[@Thoran666]

+V3RTIGO222 Yep I really enjoyed the deconstruction. I'd certainly like more videos like this.

[@Skeptical_Numbat]

It was utterly fascinating to me to see (for a start) the methodology that *Ian* used as he analyzed the various aspects of this gun, but when he went on to explain how & why the modifications had been made, that really brought the history to life. It hadn't occurred to me to consider how a gun could be used to make the history of something as banal as how the *Union Army* was provisioned to be interesting, but Ian was remarkably good at it, conjuring imagery of soldiers in unfamiliar territory hunting for food - that they were desperate enough to modify a weapon for war into one for shooting buckshot, speaks volumes. I reckon if anyone ever gets 'round to making a TV documentary series about the entire history of guns, I know who I'd be recommending to host it: *Ian McCollum* (The David Attenborough of guns.)

[@Nerdnumberone]

@@Skeptical_Numbat To be fair, buckshot is far from useless against human targets. I do wonder if they used a spare rifle for shotgun conversion or if one guy would just stick to using a smoothbore weapon in battle.

[@billplemitscher9502]

Years ago, the Adirondack Museum in Blue Mountain Lake, NY (excellent museum all around) had on display a Spencer repeating rifle with a shogun barrel added below the rifle barrel. I first thought that this combination gun must have been a one-of-a-kind item, but apparently there was a 19th Century gunsmith producing them to order in the Adirondacks. Maybe the museum would let you share that story!

[@Giloup92]

You are the Sherlock Homes of guns!

[@sergeantbigmac]

+Giloup92 *Holmes

[@Giloup92]

+sergeantbigmac Right !

[@sergeantbigmac]

Giloup92 No problem Homie ;)

[@MechaRommel]

+sergeantbigmac *Holmie. Sorry, I had to :P

[@sergeantbigmac]

MechaRommel I was hoping someone would ;)

[@chazcollins2164]

The Frankengun.

[@TrueTreeRadioNetwork]

That mystery gun is the gun that was used to shoot jfk from the moon we never visited with bullets made of the federal gold reserve

[@amperzand9162]

+TrueTreeRadio Clearly.

[@Ralph-yn3gr]

This was a fun video. It's like listening to a Sherlock Holmes story (I drive a fair bit, so audiobooks are my best friend). You should do more of these from time to time as a sort of irregular "gun detectives" series.

[@Nutmegowns1]

It's the 1800's version of a guy who buys a $500 gun and throws $5,000 worth of crap on it

[@ilikehardplay]

Not really. During the 1880s-1900, the price of Spencer carbines/rifles was low....and got lower as the years went on. (1902 Sears catalog lists them at $3.65, when a current repeating shotgun from Winchester or Marlin was $17-28) What almost certainly happened was that someone bubba'd this gun into a shotgun for hunting and farm use, the same way a lot of guys in the 1950s "sporterized" M1903 Springfields... Further, it's just a guess based upon a Ph.D. written on Civil War reenacting but several generations later (1960) some historical reenactor brought this already bubba'd gun to rifle configuration....because a blank loaded reenactment guns don't need rifling. Superficial resemblance was good enough. The only surprise would be if the chamber was not altered in some way to feed something other than 56-50 rimfire, which was hard to find by the 1960s, and nearly impossible afterwards....until the post 2000 reproductions in 56-50 CF.

[@MrGeremyTibbles]

It's so weird, I love it.

[@ludditeneaderthal]

2 guesses: a prison "guard gun" is my first guess. if it had markings, i could actually see it being a bannerman offering from around 1910, lol. however the "sanitized" markings gave me another idea, a "reservation trade gun". obsolete arm, probably still shit tons of surplus ammo in storage, and the smooth bore allows "bird to bear" (and also prevents any armed uprising from long range marksmanship). would explain origins, marking scrub, and "arsenal grade repurpose". the bead probably shot a mile high with the even higher rear sight (shooting ball), so the post sweated on

[@midwestreview6382]

I've soon a few other gun with the Indian story

[@JesusvonNazaret]

thank you for the very interesting video

[@fdmackey3666]

Some 40 or so years ago I walked into a small family owned grocery store/gas station back home in rural South Carolina. The owners were old family friends and attended the same church as my family did so we knew each other well and fished and hunted together a lot. In the course of their regular business, they also took part in estate sales and bought and traded antiques, firearms in particular. The day of my visit the owner was unboxing several "used but in excellent condition" Spencers that he had picked up at an estate auction in the area. As a history nut and "old guns make me smile" kind of guy I was excited to see these gems. However, at the time I knew very little about the Spencer (I know only a little more about them all these years later...But still), so seeing that two of the six "carbines" had smooth bores I assumed that the whole lot was "shot out" and virtually worthless. A classic case of assuming the wrong thing and missing out on something good. Fast forward roughly twenty years and I discovered that a few Spencers ( a few compared to the overall production) had been ordered with smooth or shot barrels for use primarily by the Cavalry as "forager guns", others were reemed out for thes same purpose "in the field", and by some folks who bought Spencers surplus after The War of Northern Agression. Similar modifications were later used on the Trapdoor Springfield carbines and rifles for the very same purposes. Of course I can't testify to the whys and wherefores of the example you have in this video but I sorta kinda would be willing to bet it went through a similar "conversion" as the ones I saw all those years ago and foolishly passed up the chance to buy either individually or as a lot. By the way, the owner had the best rifled examples marked at $50.00 and the smooth bores at $25.00 because he felt they might make good parts guns or wall hangers at best. Such is life and we all have to learn along the way. Excellent video as usual. Keep 'em coming.

[@Edeinawc]

He addressed the military issued forager guns on the video and why this isn't one of them. But the ones you saw back then were probably standard.

[@PeterOStecherClassicArchery]

I love your videos! I thought, maybe it was a trick-shots rifle looking shotgun? Best Wishes!

[@drmaudio]

I find the process interesting. Thinking of the changes over time really drives home the varied nature of the lives these guns have.

[@KusagariBlues]

I'm a simple man. My name is Spencer. I liked the video.

[@zendell37]

Was it Mudderman who would frankengun things with spare parts? I like your explanation better, though.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+zendell37 You're thinking of Bannerman.

[@zendell37]

Thanks. I figure this is a bit too early for him to have dabbled with. I'm probably wrong, though.

[@Dannyn829]

Ian is the Scooby Doo of Firearm Mysteries!!

[@odinlobogauta8634]

Maybe an experimental shotgun that leads to the Spencer 1882 pump action shotgun one??/

[@douglasbarbret7833]

Hi, Several years ago at a auction in Michigan a Spencer carbine converted to shotgun was sold. At that time it had the carbine forestock and bead front sight on it. And like yours if you look just in front of the reciver you can see where the original barrel was cut off just in front of the chamber and the outside of the original barrel was then threaded for a shotgun barrel to be threaded over it. Not saying its the same gun that has been modified again since then, but , looks like a surplus alteration.

[@waltlars3687]

has anybody else thought this might be a "Hollywood prop gun " for fireing blanks ?

[@ChamplainValleyRailSnapshots]

I was thinking the same thing. Was it modified by some prop house decades ago to be used in old westerns.

[@ilikehardplay]

I find it unlikely because he mentioned that the chamber was superficially similar to the original. Hollywood prop men generally want to use 5-in-1 blanks, which were originally designed to be fired out of .38-40 and .44-40 Winchester rifles and .38-40, .44-40 and .45 Colt revolvers. (they will also work in .44 Special, .44 Magnum, and .410 gauge firearms)... Because having *1* caliber of blank on set is a heck of a lot easier that half-a-dozen or more. Heck, I remember the late Stembridge Antique Arms (which used to be the biggest in the Hollywood gun rental business) having racks of guns converted to 5-in-1 use including trapdoor Springfields.

[@839photo]

Ian, as always enjoy the history, greatly appreciated! The top portion of weapon that is without markings due to do wear brought to mind a method that may help. An oil produced to 'raise' the numbers on guns, vehicles, etc. this may give additional info with this mystery and possibly future ones as well. Linked is further info on the topic. Good luck! www.evidencemagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=366

[@thetriode]

Very interesting, I have a 45-70 cartridge for something like this in my misc. stuff that has a wooden capsule meant for a smooth bore conversion on a Springfield Trap Door. It was actually sanctioned for cooks from what I've read.

[@hardr0ck68]

Interesting gun, my guess looking at it would be that it was a trick shooter's gun. Performers like those in Buffalo Bill's show would often shoot shot shells in rifles and pistols both because the shot was less likely to kill a spectator and also to make those impressive glass balls a little easier to smash to bits in mid-air. Advertising they were doing those fancy tricks with a shotgun would have taken much of the magic away so having a shotgun that looked even under fairly close examination as a rifle was a requirement.

[@ronniedean3030]

sweet video! keep em coming! mad love for forgotten weapons!

[@HopliteWarlord]

This is the rifle that Will Munny used to kill Lil' Bill after the gunfight at Greeley's (who owns this shithole?) Saloon in the great movie, "Unforgiven" It made Lil' Bill gasp at the thought of it being lowered towards his face before Will Munny blew it to smithereens!!!

[@sergeantbigmac]

I really liked this 'tracing through history' format. Do more videos like this Ian because it was really fascinating!

[@shockwavecity]

Possible he wanted to shoot slugs with it?

[@RobertoDonatti]

Some info I found On the 1/2/1869 the ordnance department sold Argentina 200 spencer carbines & 200,000 rounds of 56-50 cartriges these carbines would have been modle 1865s price was 26 dollars per carbine so they would have been new,by this time the Fogarty Repeating Rifle Company owned the Spencer factory & stock so any further orders for new Spencers would have to go through this company or the Winchester company which bought the Fogarty company,winchester did sell Spencers to Brazile and other south american contries so quickly that by 1873 Brazile had to get extra spencers made in Belgiam this was because nealy all surplace and the rest of winchesters stock of Spencers had been sold to france ,I have seen the mark on the stock somwere ellce is there any other stamps on the right hand side of the stock

[@liamtalty1473]

really cool :) thanks Ian

[@dennisshank2715]

My memory is a little bit rusty but when I worked in A Gun Shop here in Houston, Texas, I recall a older gentleman who was very knowledgeable about Civil War weapons and he said that a lot of weapons that were not accepted for U.S. Army issue for whatever reason were sometimes " turned into " shotguns and then were used for foraging and quite a few were used for guarding prisoners because a shotgun was easier to hit with. Hope this helps.

[@scottrice370]

A lot of guns bought second Hand after the war by manufacturers and converted to shotguns. There was a huge demand for shotguns on the frontier and around the farm. Many people don't know how financial dire the situation was for the government after the war. The United States of America was almost bankrupt, also it had to occupy a huge part of the country with troops. So the Government sold of the huge stockpiles of second hand for dirt cheap.

[@agoogleaccount2861]

occasionally you will find swiss vetterli rifle shotgun conversions too . they used the .44xl centerfire shot cartridges used in a marbles game getter most people load them from 44/40 brass nowadays i don't suppose this is a conversion for use in a prison similar to the .410 Enfield rifles that turn up occasionally

[@donaldchapman6161]

We're Spencer rifle barrels ever made in anything close to this length. And if so how was the accuracy???

[@Nerdnumberone]

What are the disadvantages of shooting shotgun rounds out of a rifled barrel? If there aren't many, did some people just keep the rifled barrel and load shot shells, leaving the option to use it as a rifle if necessary?

[@flexarnn]

Am i the only one that get videos about learning colors in the recomended thingie to the right!?! PLEASE TELL ME IN NOT THE ONLY ONE!

[@exploatores]

+flexarnn no, you are not the only one :)

[@andrewsuryali8540]

+flexarnn I asked this very same question ages ago. Turns out we're seeing those because Forgotten Weapons has an "education" tag, so naturally KZbin thinks we're all 5-yr-olds.

[@exploatores]

Andrew Suryali Maybe KZbin should do some diffrence between Child education and adult education, :)

[@1903tx]

+flexarnn I hope that the converse is also true; that people watching educational videos about colors are being suggested Ian's videos.

[@stephentroyer3831]

no, I have them as well.

[@Jdflana1]

It’s a shotgun convention to be given to colored troops , they were to function as foragers.

[@MrWhatdoyouthinkof]

That is Elmer Fudd's grandfathers rabbit gun .

[@grantlandsmith]

test

[@Bob1942ful]

excellent forensic video about the story of this weapon.

[@DavidHarris-qn7em]

Indian affairs guard gun..natives were forbidden from rifle barreled arms

[@GLG-20DECOY]

Did Franklin Armory buy this rifle ? Lol

[@bunkstagner298]

could this be a Bannerman conversion?

[@kenhelmers2603]

Guns that make you go "Hmmm" Thanks Ian :)

[@convex7456]

thanks for the upload

[@danielnaughton9759]

The lamb of god drummer knows his shit!!

[@somebody3143]

Lmao @ the Dear site!!! They thing is NOT straight!

[@stevelemmen7048]

Cool gun, but it seems to be excessively messed with.

[@mrspike007able]

I know what it is, its a Forager the U.S. Army Arsenals made Smooth Bore Trapdoors both 50/70 - 45/70 Cal., Spencers for Foragers to Take Game with.

[@devonzawko5212]

+BigBossManBBQ why would they do that? that does not make any sense, especially for those cartridges, unless they were using shot.

[@mrspike007able]

+sadf fdsa They Issues Full Brass Shot Cartridges.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+BigBossManBBQ There were no Spencer foragers.

[@LittleHondaRider]

Maybe they were shooting shotgun slugs with it.

[@canadaisdecent1635]

I have a round manufactured for this gun

[@survivalcomms]

Great video - It is always interesting to try to ascertain the history of an example such as this. How long did they produce the spencer shot cartridges ? I wasn't even aware such animal existed. I always learn something new watching your videos. Thank you very much !

[@John-ih2bx]

Very informative, thanks

[@leandroporto6513]

In 1867 Brazil bought some of then and our cavalry used it in the Paraguayan War (1864-1870), this gun was a success

[@definebruh3416]

Here is a couple of interesting guns you should try and get ur hands on. G11, ww1 German flamethrower (I don't know the name), deleaxhe Apache pistol, European harmonica pistol, Gardner gun, M.A.S model 1938, Marietta pepperbox, nazi belt buckle pistol, PTRD (sniper not antitank), Vietcong slam fire blow back rifle. Colt SAA revolving pistol...... The list can go on and on but this channel is incredible for showing real pieces of history rather than new, boring automatic rifles and pistols from the present, keep it up Ian.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+Aka Dufine I have already done videos on about half of those...

[@definebruh3416]

+Forgotten Weapons damn

[@poppabear9279]

Why is it, that by the 20 second mark on all of Ian's videos, I'm already hitting the thumbs up button? I don't think Ian has ever made even a mediocre video.. I use to like Hickok45, and watch his channel a lot.. Now, I don't even bother, I always come to Ian's channel for my gun crack fix.

[@wilfredoikle7534]

Not mentioned is that many smoothbore guns of the day were used as shotguns and would be reasonably accurate with round balls making it a dual purpose guns and probably the reason for the rifle sights. My flintlock 20 ga smoothbore will group into about 3 inches at 50 yds when loaded with a patched round ball. So called trade guns, smoothbores, were favored simply because they were dual purpose. Especially by the western fur trappers of the 1830's and the Indians. Cheap had something to do with it as well

[@marcusmckenzie9528]

i think Ned Kelly (Aussie Bushranger) had a Spencer repeating rifle at the shootout with police at the battle of Glenrowan? Correct me if im wrong...

[@I_will_pet_your_dogs]

Some impressive sleuthing there, Sir Ian.

[@MerrimanDevonshire]

NRA ad on 25OCT17 - Looks like the back catalogue has not be hit with the ban hammer just yet.

[@SaddlebagPreacher]

I'm just wondering, because I've been used as an extra in some movies and have several repro guns, if years ago it was converted to look like a military Spencer, but turned into a smooth bore to clean up easier after blanks for the movies. If you watch some of the old (pre WW2) movies, you see an awful lot of the real guns being used, that's all they had back then. From experience, constant use after using BP or flashpowder blanks will corrode out the lands and grooves if not cleaned asap.

[@dr.johnpaladinshow9747]

Cool !! I will never have Ian's depth and facility of knowledge about firearms. But I think I can shoot better than he does. ;-)

[@Jesses001]

It is really fun piecing together the history of a firearm like that. Hum, I wonder if that thing could still chamber modern 20ga hulls? Well I can always find out by purchasing it, ha.

[@UnrealT2K4]

Ian, you are the sherlock holmes of antique guns... what other toys does RIA have laying around for you to play with?

[@stevenbaker470]

A lot of rifles get bored out after military use due to gun laws in various countries. Ie Snider-Enfield martini Henry and .303 Lee Enfield rifles that were modified to lose it's "military use" designation

[@dgr8zod]

Ian, I am the owner of the site mausershooters.org. I got an email some months back regarding a rifle decidedly not Mauser. Dual barrel, dual trigger. I suggested he contact you, but I'm not sure he did, and I'm curious as well. If I forward it to you, would you check it out?

[@willcaputo1]

My money is on reenactment piece. I can't imagine this selling for much, it looks the part, and with blanks, you wouldn't need a rifled barrel

[@GreyDevil]

Yesterday i ran across the internets of something called a Punt Gun. I'm sure you know of it Ian, it's essentially an oversized shotgun, and i was hoping that if you ever come across one if you can talk about it? Seemed very interesting and i've never heard of it before yesterday.

[@angelcabrera6141]

Someone's shotgun conversion

[@WendiGonerLH]

i wonder if maybe it was a project someone made to create a spencer re-enactment gun, bought it as a shotgun, and since they knew that they’d only be using it for blanks, they decided to leave the smooth shotgun barrel on, since rifling would be wholly unnecessary for the purpose

[@Khanclansith]

I think what this is, is a firearm with multiple personalities disorder caused by severe in taxed alcohol consumption.

[@norbertolagrava4734]

¡A personal Spenser's worker shotgun? (He would have had all the elements to do so). The strange thing is that the transformation had been better, with the forearm of the carbine

[@andyratka2140]

It could be possible that the owner of this shot gun/ rifle was a frontiersman. It was common with frontiersman to have only one gun so they would need it to be versatile. If I can recall there were called rifles called fuzels that were a smooth bore shot gun for smaller game/birds and the rifle for big game. It's a possibility basing that on the fact at end of the Civil War there was the westward expansion.

[@aserta]

I don't remember what process was required, but you can read old stamps by the way the metal was upset under the blow of the stamp. I think it was Xray..might be wrong. It's used in forensics.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+aserta That process typically uses acid to dissolve the compressed metal under the stamp and the uncompressed metal around it at slight different rates, thus making the marking visible. It is a temporary and destructive test; not something viable for a gun like this.

[@normanlesley1867]

+Forgotten Weapons I remember a forensics doco sum years ago, the gun was placed on an magnetic coil and where the lettering had been removed was sprinkled with iron filings and took on the form of the removed marks but did not damage the gun.

[@waynepennington2769]

Your pretty smart on those guns

[@JenniferinIllinois]

It's like digging down and finding an even older city of Troy. ☺ -Jen

[@liamclarke1196]

Is there a detachable magazine if so it still could of been in the UK cuz the 2+1magazine limited in section 2 shotgun came in 1988 after a shooting

[@SGTJDerek]

May be a dumb question but what's the difference between a Carbine and a Rifle? Never really looked for an answer because I keep forgetting to go look but you keep mentioning it and it's fresh in my head.

[@MrJest2]

+SGTJDerek A carbine is simply a short-barreled rifle, typically under 20" of barrel length. They became popular early on with mounted cavalry, because a 4 - 6 foot long infantry rifle was unwieldy to use on horseback. The distinction has pretty much been lost in modern times, as velocity and accuracy can be achieved with shorter barrels than were needed 150 - 200 years ago.

[@SGTJDerek]

MrJest2 That's kinda what I thought. At least that was tickling the back of my head but I wasn't sure. Thanks

[@RussellHoughton]

It may have had the wood and sights replaced to pass it of as a rifle for more $$$$

[@RobertRobert-xs9ep]

mr. you not show point hool for rifle chamber! and not denostrating rifling, your nice monolog look after bla bla bla, ist like licking honey in glass bottle

[@chriscat85]

Several of these guns were converted to shotguns. Notice the weld in front of the chamber. I've always heard that the shotgun blank was welded to the original barrel after it had been cut off.

[@bobbybrooner]

How long would the carbine barrel have been? Maybe they lengthened the barrel because of the NFA.

[@DanielSvensson666]

You get to look at some really interesting guns.:D Very interesting and it is fun to see someone that actually knows what they are talking about.:)

[@ArkadianMr]

it reminds me the milonas rifle used by greece, many of them were converted in 20 gauge and sold to civilians as shotguns.

[@TheBigjasonski]

It was a movie prop gun built to fire blanks and look like a rifle. If you look closely right in front of the sight you can see the line where it was machined for the shotgun barrel to thread into the original rifle barrel.

[@keithmoore7390]

2 things come to mind right off, 1. a gunsmith was playing around with an old action and parts and got a shotgun or 2.omeone converted it and then a movie prop house got a hold of it?

[@ge0arc244]

Fascinating video. It was Fun to watch. You're Facts are correct. Fair well Friends.

[@highbrass7563]

the gun is fake lmao

[@saltandprepper5024]

I maybe off but is it possible someone replaced the original possibly damaged rifle barrel and what they had on had was a smooth bore barrel

[@LinuxGalore]

I wonder if converting it back to it's original factory state would increase or decrease the price of the riffle.

[@gilbertkasnija7085]

I am wondering how much they sold this beautiful rifle?

[@hunter19709]

Maybe a prototype line throwing gun life savings service?

[@skraflar]

what if it was both has an rifle and shotgun? I know the barrel is no good but could you kill a deer on short range with it?

[@douglasbarbret7833]

also no markings on the receiver, would like your comments ?

[@christopherjefferson3561]

yeah Confederates LOVED them when they could get ammo

[@jimrutherford2773]

It looks like the conversion was done a long time ago based on the patina on the shotgun barrel and front two metal bands.

[@davidbradley6040]

If you wanted an infantry rifle lookalike would you not have a bayonet fitting?

[@midwestreview6382]

i saw one of these a few years ago the owner sead it was a converted to a week shot shell by the government and given to Indian on reservations for hunting that one had just a beed sights

[@flyingninja1234]

It's interesting how different owners change aspects of the firearms they own.