Snap v Flatpak v AppImage - In Depth Pros & Cons of Universal Packaging

Time to weigh in on an issue that seems to have more heat behind it than it should. What are the pros and cons behind each of the universal packaging systems for Linux?
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:21 History of packages
3:39 Old OS, new software
6:09 AppImages
9:02 Update download sizes
10:26 Snaps
15:20 Flatpak
16:37 What I use
17:42 Performance
19:09 Conclusion
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[@NeptuneSega]

Personally, we win either way. We can get the software we want, one way or the other. As much as people like to complain, they cannot deny that this has brought significantly more software to “Linux”. New users are at a convenience these days, and makes switching easier for Windows / macOS users.

[@Lanzetsu]

@AstroClipsChannel I think this is exactly the opposite, a way to finally be able to ignore that fragmentation since you can install the same Apps however it is available and not being forced to chose based on what you have in your repos and what not, for the standard and new user this is just one of the best tools Linux have these days against Linux own fragmentation over distros and package managers

[@homeontherange733]

@AstroClipsChannel I disagree. With Flatpak example: They come sandboxed with their own lib files instead of shared files. Albeit redundant lib files. But, because hard drives are so large these days, the issue become moot. The other thing is removing the apps will reduce the corruption that shared files can produce.

[@BrittYazel]

+1 for Flatpak 🙂. Flatpak has changed the Linux ecosystem for me personally and professionally as a scientist.

[@NeptuneSega]

Agreed

[@BrittYazel]

@@evertonsap for science it's less important to have the source code for the app itself, but more important to have a specific runtime that the app depends on. Something as simple as a different gfortran version can significantly change results and statistics. So being able to build something like Freesurfer from source is one thing, but having a stable runtime + app stack that can be relied on for years an years is even better. The common way of doing it before was to install an ancient version of CentOS and then never update the computer...ever... I kid you not, most labs I've worked in will have computers 8-10 years out of date that have masking table on them saying NEVER CONNECT TO THE INTERNET. Flatpak (and/or Snap and AppImage) allows us to abstract the stability to a per-app basis that is portable and reproducible, and we don't need to freeze our computers in time and keep them dangerously out of date. If I know that Freesurfer works perfect on a specific runtime, it should continue to work the same way indefinitely on any computer we install it on moving forward, regardless of underlying platform. Which is a godsend!

[@nuraana8093]

Unfortunately Flatpak has to be installed on the system. It would not compile on my slackware box. Contrast to this, I simply downloaded an AppImage file; chmod +x 'd it and ran it. Nothing needed beforehand on my machine. To me, this seems to be the more sensible way to go.

[@kuhluhOG]

@@BrittYazel to be fair, for your specific use case AppImage may be better suited

[@xanrerkazuki9929]

Not a one myself but i love elementary os users, always chill and cool with everything that the others rage about.

[@GirlyNCute]

yeah compare that to neurotic arch users

[@xanrerkazuki9929]

@@GirlyNCute I mean, i am a arch user myself, albeit manjaro. We have chill people too. Every community has their ups and downs, its about knowing to respect eachother.

[@fuseteam]

this has a pretty good unbiased in depth overview of snaps +1 for the mention of the launchpad case

[@Dreigo42]

I prefer the "containerized" nature of newer packaging technologies. As someone who works in IT, it is very frustrating to have to make sure dozens of dependencies are updated. Granted this comes from a Windows background (as most corporate settings are) but the same is true for Linux repositories too. You can't be sure the repos are always updated to the version you need.

[@rameynoodles152]

I don't understand why we can't do both. Instead of including depencies with the package that needs them, thereby wasting space and bandwidth from duplication of dependencies, why don't we just package dependencies with a version number or hash so that we can get the absolute correct dependency for each target package, and if another package also needs that exact hash/version depencency, well, it's already there! So each package still can have the containerized version of its dependencies, and we don't waste resources.

[@philipthatcher2068]

Great overview of all the options. Very well done.

[@fuseteam]

for those curious about a con of traditional packages regardless of update cycle: you give any third party app full root access at install time appimages and flatpaks solve this by not requiring root access at all snap mitigates it via strict confinement

[@catriona_drummond]

This is one of, if not the most, useful videos about Linux that I have ever seen as a bloody noob, trying to make sense of the whole thing.

[@adamyork2333]

Very well thought out. I pretty much have come to the same conclusion on all points.

[@MrArseniypet]

My choice is an appimage. Whatever distro I boot I use the same application there's no need to install. And by the way, telegram appimage has a built in upgrader, so it upgrades itself very well. The other important thing is that I can stick with any version of app I prefer, easier than with flatpak or snap.

[@tomoghnosen]

It does not support gnu guix

[@sohrobby]

The fact that there is this lack of a universal packaging format, that's easy to use and doesn't ask the user to compromise in some way, is a major flaw in the Linux computing experience.

[@joschafinger126]

It's better to view this from a different angle: Linux isn't an OS, but a kernel and a huge collection of more or less related families of OSs. Thus, the various package formats belong to very different OSs.

[@gemrwx]

@@joschafinger126 Unfortunately that's why it will never be popular for the end user.

[@purpasmart_4831]

@@gemrwx Wrong

[@zeccy337]

@@purpasmart_4831 He's right, even though Linux is a kernel and not an OS per say, all Linux distros share the same environment, the same niche. When developers make apps, they typically make versions for Windows and MacOS, and if they want to cater to Linux distros as well, it's a hassle to create 10 different versions for 10 different distros. Linux users make up less than 5% of the OS market, and because there's no unified package manager or app distribution, it makes it harder for developers to cater to Linux users. It's a big turn off and a big reason why most people don't use Linux distros

[@sharedknowledge6640]

Great video and topic. I haven’t seen this covered so uniformly. Most videos are “why flat packs (or snaps or app images) are best” with little respect given to competing options let alone discussing traditional repositories. The Mint team dropping snap support has especially made this a timely issue.

[@honor9lite1337]

Mint no snap now??

[@michaelplaczek9385]

I like Native (if updated) >Flatpack>Appimage>Snap

[@jonathanhipkey2425]

Yup, same here. that’s the drift ive been catching from the various package management types

[@AnzanHoshinRoshi]

Thank you, IG. I prefer to use the APT package, then flatpaks, then appimage or build it.

[@techzone2009]

Snap is nice ...

[@ryahpalma]

@@techzone2009 Really? Install Ubuntu 20.04, now try to install Gravity Designer/Spotify from Snap Store and see the "magic"... your cursor will be the X11 instead of Yaru. Nice, huh?

[@charlottenegrovich8355]

Cool review. Thanks!

[@nevoyu]

My only issue with snaps is how long it takes for them to load, outside of that I think they're likely the superior option just due to the effort Canonical put behind them to get stuff on snapcraft

[@edrelaquino7041]

Ram and cpu usage is a tad higher

[@vogonp4287]

I have definitely had way less issues with them. Flatpaks have always been buggy for me.

[@Felipe-gz9uy]

You should try Silverblue. This distro fits this philosophy perfectly. A solid OS layer separated from the apps layer with atomic updates and rollback. Plus toolbox gives all the flexibility need to work with dynamic temporary ambients using containers.

[@ovalwingnut]

I did not know any of this.... AND I KNOW THINGS... :O) Thanks so much!

[@Praxss]

Thanks for this video 👍🏻

[@YayWalterSullivan]

Maybe it’s because i’ve been a lifelong Mac user, but Appimages definitely appeal to me the most. And to me, the update issue is actually secretly a pro rather than a con, even if it is mildly inconvenient/inefficient. I like having specific versions of apps frozen in time.

[@blueice1364]

on Manjaro KDE, there are no theming issues. They all adapt to the default theme. And I love it. KDEs on other distro's come nowhere close to how Arch based distros does it. And idk if it's my nvme or not, but no matter the source, all my apps launch instantaneously.

[@InvalidUser_]

I prefer appimage but i would choose flatpak over snap

[@greggoryhorn]

Unrelated to the topic at hand, what did you use for the MS Office shortcuts in your launcher?

[@johngrave5554]

It's called ICE it's part of the peppermint OS but there are guides that can help you out in installing it on your system

[@TheIntervurt]

I think the nix package manager is also worth mentioning.

[@ClaytonRego]

Good video

[@samuelitooooo]

Do snaps only have automatic updates? Can I choose never to update a snap I've installed if I don't want to? Mostly asking cuz I don't have a great connection at home so I don't want my bandwidth sucked up by updates I can't control. If not, looks like Flatpaks are the go-to.

[@jasonfanclub4267]

I wish there was only one Software Center instead of so many

[@JulianoMota1983]

I've noticed you have the Microsoft Office 365 suite installed on your Linux. How did you managed to get that?

[@fuseteam]

weird that the segment index is not working, perhaps you need to change 0:00 to 00:00 in the description?

[@emjaycee]

I guess I consider myself to be a very average user with pretty basic system requirements. Plus, having been in Linux now for getting up to 3 years, I know how to get most apps that I want/need anyway. Currently, in most systems that I use, I don't use any of the portable packaging options that are available at all. And, at this stage in my Linux life I'm more than happy to keep it that way lol. Happy to admit though that they certainly expand options for more specialist users. More power to all :)

[@fuseteam]

fwiw only appimages are portable out of these three

[@rickbhattacharya2334]

How you have one note , excel in your system . I am booting back to windows just to use one note . Please tell how you installed that . One more thing i tried p3x one note but i didn't liked the interface

[@honor9lite1337]

Wine?? 🤔

[@sohrobby]

He's probably using the Web-based version.

[@GoBlue75]

OP- I'm curious to know what method you're using to run MS Office applications on your Linux installation. Are you using Wine or Crossover?

[@xthebumpx]

Electron wrappers of the online versions?

[@InfinitelyGalactic]

Electron Wrappers of the Web apps for my work account. A snap...funnily enough.

[@techzone2009]

Use WPS office ... similar to microsoft office 👍

[@idtyu]

Flatpak apps doesn't take much to update, it's their depencies that are taking forever to update, you can have one flatpak app depending on gnome 3.36, the other one with 3.38 and one more with gnome 40. And don't get me started on those depending on kde and pantheon etc.,and free desktop dependancoes, these are all separate flatpak sandboxes that need to be updated individually. But the good thing is, it integrates with window managers really well.

[@zzasdfwas]

How can you justify ANY performance issues with a package format? It's just a system for wrapping and managing binaries. There should be no or trivial performance impact (for load times or memory).

[@antonsurviyanto5896]

Which one is easier to build an application?

[@an93lofdeath]

I don't like how many loop devices are mounted using snaps, nor do I like Ubuntu's decisions with the snap store. Using popOS flatpacks are integrated very well so I've been using that.

[@Little-bird-told-me]

I wanted to use Balena-Etcher, so got its app image, ran it as an administrator and once I was done i just left the appimage in my download folder ( which generally gets deleted periodically). I think App image is for for such one time use apps which you don't want to bother installing.

[@EddieTheLightbringer]

I tried snaps once, didn't like them because they created a virtual drive for every snap app I downloaded and it caused my 18 second boot to balloon to a minute and a half because of the added mount time for each virtual disk.

[@PyroNexus22]

I find Flatpaks to be way more stable and reliable. Usually, when other types of package fail, Flatpak will work.

[@amaxamon]

Debs are best!

[@alfanur_rizal]

8:06 i see ms word,, how did you install on linux? Please give us tutorial,,

[@kuhluhOG]

10:08 the main reason why flatpak is slower than snap, is probably because flatpak decompresses the packages after receiving them while snap doesn't

[@douglasfelix]

Hello, I'd like to know how did you install OneDrive in Elementary OS. Thank you!

[@honor9lite1337]

Wine?? 🤔

[@tigrankhachaturian8983]

I feel like this is a progressive web app

[@douglasfelix]

@@tigrankhachaturian8983 I think so too. I'd like to sync files. Perhaps vGrive is the only solution.

[@tomoghnosen]

In Fedora i use DNF package manager and nothing else. It gets my job done.(install rpmfusion)

[@raghavprabhakar]

Hey, How have you got Microsoft To-do App in your dock?

[@InvalidUser_]

Its probably just an icon pack

[@AkshayKumar-kz6zh]

Long time since you did a distro comparison. Can you do video on Fedora Vs PopOs? Both target software developers.

[@tomoghnosen]

Fedora is by far the best distro for devs.

[@ErickBraganza]

But my cuestion with snap is other distros can create another store? And use snaps without snap store?

[@PanduPoluan]

Yes.

[@rohanbaraniraj1748]

Do etcher app image run on fedora ?

[@fuseteam]

wait did i miss the pro of flatpak?

[@coon-si3ce]

Myself, I prefer to use a repository, but after that, it depends a bit on convenience, if there is flatpack support on the os, then I will go to that if it is in there, but if not, I will download an appimage. I like that appimmages don't change, and that I can just copy single file wherever I want and just point to it with a symbolic link. And another user doesn't need to install, they just need the link. Even after a new os, and reformatting my home partition, I don't have to dl or install. The part that I don't like about appimage, is that I have to manually add it to the whisker menu and find my own icon, and it doesn't remember some things between sessions. I have never used a snap. Still, these things are waaay better than compiling from source which used to sometimes be the only other option, and a total cr*pshoot. edit: after repository.. I would do a deb file or equivalent before appimage, flat or snap. There don't seem to be so many of them around tho.

[@libregisin9878]

Thank you for the information. I prefer AppImage because it is portable, simple, no need to be root, you can test it, put is on a usb key, the same AppImage work on most distributions, no installation and one app = one file. Snap and Flatpak are not portable and I think you need root privilege to install them, testing such a package requires an installation. Do snap work on other distributions than Ubuntu ?

[@vogonp4287]

I have heard of people running Snap on Arch. So, yes.

[@ricecake1228]

How's ms task compared to todoist?

[@keyboard_g]

Arent snaps compressed? Maybe that has something to do with smaller updates.

[@michael_tunnell]

yes they are

[@friendly-bear2863]

Can we get the wallpaper?:)

[@dzibanart8521]

Appimages for sure.

[@DRIVING_ME_CRAZY]

Why are snaps and flatpaks slower? Electron apps don't seem to be slower.

[@mdavid1955]

I tend to use Flatpak 1st if the app is not native to my OS.

[@vogonp4287]

I generally have way less issues with Snap than Flatpaks. Appimages are great though. I usually end up using native packages.

[@jeinnerabdel]

Guys, just use whatever works for you and let others do the same without bashing other tools?

[@fuseteam]

agreed! each has their own uses

[@ryann6919]

I liked Snap but after switching to linux Mint 20, Snap was removed and the reasoning behind that decision convinced me to dump Snap. I use native packages where I can, then supplement with appimage when i need to

[@knightone57]

I'm all for something new if it makes my life simpler.

[@avashurov]

Not enough downsides listed. Where are the prerequisites to run these apps? System requirements? The fact that that some of them require a bunch of junk to run them, like apparmor, selinux

[@puyol8700]

Out of these I have only tried snaps myself, both on Ubuntu and Manjaro, and I wasn't impressed. Media players stuttering during playback of both remote and local content, apps with tabbed view taking ages to load when changing to a different tab, terrible load times on first AND on subsequent startups, several crashes on usually stable apps, etc. If I wanted to deal with that sort of inconvenience, I'd be using Windows. Although I might eventually give AppImage and almost certainly Flatpak a try, I'm sticking with pacman/AUR for the time being. It just works.

[@gogudelagaze1585]

Yeah, distro packages are best for the end user, but are absolute hell for developers. These things make it easy for devs, with varying degrees of comfort for users. Appimages could be almost the same as packages. There's nothing stopping anyone from creating a central repository, and the update issue could be trivially solved (The format just needs to know where to check for an update). However, Redhat/Canonical have been heavily pushing their own solutions to fragment the market, and since Appimages don't have a company pushing it, and the other distros prefer their package formats, there's no incentive for devs to publish appimages. This all but ensures appimages will eventually die out, even if they're the better format. Betamax vs VHS all over again.

[@johnterpack3940]

Meanwhile, I'm one of those weirdos who's mad that it's getting harder to find source code to build from. I really want programs optimized for my rig rather than generic binaries that may suffer on it. Adding another abstraction layer is the opposite of performance.

[@LeandroCavalcanteLeandrw]

AppImage team

[@Lanzetsu]

I love the AppImages and Snaps mainly, sometimes I use Flatpacks but usually I go for Snaps directly or App Image for specific apps

[@hamzacry2364]

why r u using elementary os?

[@insaneminer4853]

I don’t really know why people hate snap so much it’s not like it’s the end of the world

[@fidamuntaseer1989]

deb > flatpak > snap > appimage

[@khandarwilliam5439]

docker but for GUI apps

[@yohanesd9764]

i love flatpak & appimage, but snap just constantly give me troubles. not able to disable auto update & only working properly on ubuntu derivatives(try to use snap on arch and many apps just dont work)

[@techzone2009]

Snap makes life easier ...to setup app development environment (flutter, kotlin...) Just one line of command install everything ....

[@sardineBro]

first like!

[@LoganT547]

No one cares!

[@linuxstreamer8910]

@@LoganT547 i care also don't be a ass

[@NeptuneSega]

That’s nice buddy, you want an applause?

[@sardineBro]

@@NeptuneSega yes I do

[@fuseteam]

fwiw its possible create an alternative 'snap store' see snapskiff on gitlab.com/snapskiff

[@RipCityBassWorks]

I personally like all three, but I wish they all had better system integration. Flatpak is good with theming, but has clunky file management and tends to reset program settings to default after closing and re-opening later. Snap I still sometimes have issues with theming, especially regarding cursor size. I don't think Appimage can be properly themed at all, it's just stuck with whatever the program default is.

[@ringodekroon]

if you got a big driven is ok... but not with smaller drive but regular noob people should be ok

[@ebn__]

Nix and Guix already solves these problems without the downsides people complain about.

[@dzibanart8521]

Snaps on my computer take just too long to launch.

[@fraufuchs9555]

On my computer Flatpaks are the ones that take too long to launch 🤔

[@TheLotw]

I feel Flatpak is the best, mainly because its 100% open source. APPImage is the worst, its basically going backwards as it doesnt auto update, you have to go some where to download them, etc.

[@uzefulvideos3440]

AppImage is great for portable Linux applications

[@BradenBest]

this concept makes me angry because in my eyes, it is attempting to solve a fragmentation problem with more fragmentation. POSIX should put its foot down and standardize package management such that you could swap apt for pacman as easily as you could swap GNOME for xfce.

[@danieleccleston7928]

Flatpack it is

[@cdefgah4343]

Why would I want to use one of these? Nearly every packet is available in the official repos and the rest is in the AUR. No need to declutter package management, I prefer having everything centralized and easily updateable.

[@BrittYazel]

In general, I'd rather run the package as packaged by the authors of the application itself rather than a 3rd party packager, which is the case for a ton of Snap/Flatpak/AppImages. Not to disparage third party packagers or anything. I also like to know that I'm running the exact same version of an app on Fedora, Arch, Pop_OS, etc. Like the LITERAL same app, not just the same source code.

[@serge5046]

10:42 "Snaps, that's available for any Linux distribution" Completely wrong: snaps require snapd which itself requires systemd and there are plenty of Linux distributions without systemd in all the Linux families. These distributions can't use snaps. What is truly universal is this: the square of (a + b) is equal to the square of a plus the square of b plus twice the product of a and b. It is universal in time: it was true centuries ago, it is true today and it will remain true in the future. And it is universal in space: it is true whether you live in the USA, in Europe, in Asia or on an unknown island !!! Snaps aren't universal. AppImages can be used on almost any Linux distribution. Flatpaks work relatively well on distributions with systemd but require some workaround for distributions without systemd. So regarding the init system AppImages are the best solution !

[@SnakePlissken25]

All these are trash, and native packaging is the only way forward.

[@slim_2280]

App images are fine, snap and flatpak are rubbish.

[@techzone2009]

All are better in their own way 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@slim_2280]

@@techzone2009 I will never ever understand Snaps, as every time I install a snap package it never works and waiting for ages for one app to fill my hard drive up, when I can get the same app in a Deb file or add a trusted PPA, that's ten times smaller in size. I get the idea of keeping apps in one place, but ain't no good if the app itself doesn't work. That's why I always say Snap Packages reminds me of the Ubuntu store it never worked, with every new Ubuntu release they promised it had been fixed, but it never was, always broken. So went straight over to Synaptic, whoosh straight in up and running in no time.