So Apple Vision Pro was a lie. | Genius Bar BONUS Episode

[@dynamic283]

Sam is 100% making a drop test video for this product

[@sllick]

That would be a brain dead move-it’s glass, ofc it will break

[@hhh-rc5gt]

@@sllick not brain dead at all, the video will probably pay for a couple Vision Pros

[@dynamic283]

@@hhh-rc5gt idk about that but I feel he’s gonna do it anyway

[@chidorirasenganz]

@@hhh-rc5gtmaybe half of one if he’s lucky

[@michaelhendricks3817]

Id watch@@sllick

[@snazzy]

Sam, you haven’t considered that Will’s head is a gimbal. They didn’t hire him for nothing!

[@geniusbar]

You’re so real for that - Sam

[@InfiniteRegen]

Had to do a double take at the notification 😂 0:00 - Vision Pro reviews 4:55 - The verge 15:30 - iJustine 18:02 - FaceTime + Expectations vs Reality 41:30 - MKBHD unboxing 46:05 - Eye Sight 53:30 - Jon’s worries 55:05 - The Happy’s & Sad’s 1:03:00 - Vision Pro 2 1:04:50 - Mac Rumors 1:06:00 - Controversial Jon 1:17:00 - Sam is sad 1:32:20 - Sam’s anticipation 1:38:50 - Sam’s final thoughts 1:42:50 - Jon’s prediction 1:43:50 - Outro Considering majority social media apps compress video and photo files I can’t say judging videos of Vision Pros camera quality is fair cuz it’s obviously gonna look different 😂😂

[@tiagomaqz]

Thank you. This was really helpful

[@Spykedjadedragon]

I actually thought Brian Tong’s one hour Vision Pro review was the most interesting. He showed off a bunch of apps and even though I’m not a sports fan, the NBA app looked super cool. He also mentioned some of the negatives of wearing the headset.

[@shameermulji]

Joanna Stern's review is decent as well.

[@midkay]

Brian Tong's was absolutely the best. Felt like most other reviewers, especially Nilay at The Verge, got bogged down in minor technical details, nitpicks, and speculation about where the product line "might" go in the future, completely taking the focus off of the actual product they were supposed to be reviewing. Brian ACTUALLY reviewed the PRODUCT, as it is now, and gave a realistic exploration of some of the actual potential that it has.

[@disco.lemonade]

@@midkay Nilay's was the worst. Tried just too damn hard to find ALL BAD aspect of the product, with some complaints even applying to anything tech.

[@gvetech]

Correct

[@terrenspencer4439]

@@midkayyes. 100% agree. It was hard to get through that review.

[@AakashMehta]

Where's the podcast after using the Vision Pro?? I'm dying to know..

[@DouglasDeezy]

16:16 “That looks like a FUCKING QUESTTTTTTTTT” has me rolling, Godspeed Sam 💀💀💀

[@baro0202]

Same. I was LMAO! 😅

[@LucaColonnello]

It honestly looks nothing like the quest. The quest has no business having an android os underneath for the way it uses it 😂 Floating UI is going to be floating UI, but the way you do it matters. The quest has no window management or standard apps for the matter, is just games. This can be used similarly to how you use an ipad, the quest doesn’t even come close. And I’m not saying the quest couldn’t, it totally could, but for some reason their thinking around what the os should be, is closer to a playstation os (good only to launch games), than what a mac or ipad or even ios is. I don’t know what these guys are on about, but try using the quest 3 that way (I did, I own both quest 2 and 3), and you’d be veeery disappointed, veeery quickly. And I didn’t even cover how laggy and useless the basic os features like gestures and hand interactions of the quest are.

[@SikOOs]

@@LucaColonnello>The quest has no window management or standard apps for the matter, is just games TF you talk about, Immersed or Meta Workrooms, looks like you know f*all about your device

[@TheShitpostExperience]

@@LucaColonnello If that's your whole takeaway from this video, you completely missed the point.

[@TomTheAustrian]

Did you think of something like digital zoom in cut?

[@nick_fitch]

Finished watching The Verge review and thought “oh my god Sam’s losing his shit right now”

[@AppleTrack]

Fr bro 😭😭😭

[@POVwithRC]

Same.

[@Epicgamer_Mac]

@@AppleTrackSo would you say you’re disappointed/discouraged, still excited, or neutral?

[@jrrichards9392]

Verge blows. That dude rips everything Apple.

[@RunForPeace-hk1cu]

@@jrrichards9392the Verge guy was being critical for the sake of being critical. 😂😂😂😂 The guy keeps harping on isolation when it’s a HEADSET. Did the same guy complain about isolation when they listen to music with their headphones? 😂😂😂😂 Cellphones aren’t isolation devices? 😂😂😂😂 Who wants to use their vision pro in complete darkness? It can do that on its own with immersive environments. It should never be used in a dark room. Isn’t using the vision pro in a dark room by definition isolating yourself? Then why is that guy complaining about isolation when they go out of their way trying to isolate themselves 😂😂

[@maxieroo629]

I just wanna say on the topic of stabilization for the video. iJustine was using shareplay to the mac and screen recording on the Mac. The reason for that is that the actual screen recording of the Vision Pro is limited to 720p and it looks clearer when using the real-time shareplay. I don't know if that makes a difference, but I'll update on Friday when I pick mine up!

[@midkay]

I got about 15 minutes into this and I won't be watching any further. Love you guys, but I think this is premature, unnecessary, purely speculative disappointment, entirely based on poorly-done reviews from folks like Nilay (who I really like, don't get me wrong), which focused entirely on minor nitpicks rather than the wide range of potential that the product has and what it ACTUALLY does. I definitely felt a bit disappointed after Nilay's review, but Brian Tong's video brought me all the way back to excitement mode and then some. His perspective much better highlights the purpose, the point, and the potential of this product, rather than spending the entire review pontificating senselessly about where they "think" the product line "might go" in the future, what "percentage of colors" the screen might be able to accurately represent, etc. - random nonsense that doesn't speak to the ACTUAL product and its purpose, strengths, and potential.

[@ArmoredMexican]

Wait what???? Did NOT expect a bonus episode!! Let’s go!!!!

[@koijoijoe]

I dont use apple products and id never heard of you guys before this podcast episode, yet IM WAITING FOR THE NEXT EPISODE GAAAHH i like your guys coverage of the AVP lol. Thank you for admitting flaws in this episode, and being willing to temper your expectations. Im very interested to see your guys conversation now that youve been using the headset.

[@CorporateZombi]

8:05 as do all screens! This was a harsh critque, and im not even sure where he gets those numbers from! The micro oled in AVP is actually different tech to OLED screens in a TV, its really cutting edge. 12:39 That is the developer 4k recording output that is laggy..its not the user experience, according to mkbhd. 33:30 i think some of what i am feeling (i dont know about you) comes from that next next next impatience. Especially when you want it to be perfect. The VR space is full of compromise. It has been for 10 years now. You can have this clarity OR that field of view, you can have THIS form factor but the displays are dim. You can have this fov, but loose out in edge distortions. You can have THIS resolution but you need a $4000 computer and its wired. Its easy to say, its expensive it should be perfect. But at the moment there is no perfect. Its a choice.

[@CarloGrams]

Crying about the digital avatars when every other avatar solution on other headsets look like they were made in Roblox

[@franklingoodwin]

That's LITERALLY the point. They're not supposed to be true to life and aren't passing themselves off as such, unlike with these digital avatars. Apple fanboys, smh

[@eon5323]

Have you not seen metas codec avatars? That's what people are gonna be comparing it to.

[@nagyFerko]

@@eon5323I didn’t saw it in actual use, and who knows when we will see it. Also, how are you going to make such a good quality recording? With the quest 3? Because it can’t make good enough 3d scanning for that. Will it use the LiDAR and cameras of an iPhone? Then it will be limited for iPhone users, and if you don’t have an iPhone, you are left with that ugly shits what you have currently.

[@MeggaMortous]

Let's swap one turd for another and call it innovation

[@francishayter5954]

@@franklingoodwin Yes, but Apple *is* trying to achieve more lifelike Persona. Anyone can see these aren’t photorealistic, but they are an attempt to achieve something nearer reality. An obvious basis for this is Apple’s marketing of the AVP for Spatial Computing, ie, for use in a work environment. So it’s not too surprising Apple is seeking to achieve this more realistic Persona, as opposed to a cartoonish Memoji, Avatar. We don’t know the reason why it’s in beta, but could it be the more realistic facial gestures (the elasticity issue) raised by the bearded host, (is it Sam?), contends is seen in the event video but not in the reviews.

[@doompod]

It was a big rug Sam, don’t kid yourself. They tricked us it seems.

[@bazik4]

I can't wait for Jerry to destroy this thing. 😂😂😂

[@buusucks]

I think his name is Zach

[@theo5675]

It’s not a phone

[@ShaneAndersonProductions]

As someone who has owned a quest in the past, my expectations were way more realistic so I’m not experiencing the let down. It’s kind of funny to me seeing people get disappointed by a product that is not disappointing at all.

[@stdesy]

I didn’t expect all the reviews to say it was terrible

[@clark2109]

Same. I feel like everyone who has actually been invested in the vr space before knows what to realistically expect. Meanwhile Apple fans who've never tried vr before are crushed by the thought of any fov limitation, headset weight, passthrough artifacts, etc.

[@BrandonToy]

Yeah, it’s very weird. That thing is amazing for what it is.

[@stefanoliveira8718]

The Quest also isn't $3,500+. For $3,500+ it should be a pretty polished device imo.

[@evancrazyerror]

@@clark2109because these are things that you don’t expect Apple to miss! Apple is all about making technology feel more human and more natural. I don’t want a VR headset from them, I want an AR experience that connects me more with technology. So yeah, if they ship me a VR headset, it better be damn near perfect, especially for that price tag.

[@swai777]

Watching this podcast to the end is excruciating.

[@Epicgamer_Mac]

SUPER happy about the bonus episode guys! Hey… feel free to do this more often 😉

[@johnygi1553]

The guy on the left is mad and kinda rude, it was a little uncomfortable to see him talk at times, relax sir.. it’s people’s money, if they want to spend it on this device and be excited about it, they can! it’s not that deep! And the guy on the right 👏🏻 very mature, honest and sharing his point of view about the other guy’s behavior!

[@Keithen]

I am fully convinced Apple hit a point in development, where they had to physically get it in the hands of people, and developers, so people actually knew what to build for this product. Jon has been right the whole time, it does not know what it is. But I don’t believe mixed reality, in general, knows what it is. Now that it is out, we will see companies define its purpose alongside Apple. It was designed to fail upwards.

[@hunterbsmith]

In this episode Jon is pretty much fully accepting the reality of Vision Pro… that it is not fully ready right now at its $3,499 price. Sam is holding onto any positivity, but I’d have to say I agree more with Jon here. The screen recording view that we see on YT likely looks way worse than it does when you’re using the device tho.

[@kamogelokg5330]

1000% agree with your point. KZbin reviews with financial fortunes can excuse these shortcomings of the Vision Pro because they can possibly buy it again and again if they want to, the average consumer doesn’t have that privilege

[@eastonator1262]

To be honest that seemed like video compression and given that I have tried one on recently, it really isn't that shaky in real life. the UI does not move from where it is, your view does however because everyones head shakes...

[@KurtFeudaleKing]

Sam loving the Personas is strange to me. Except that they aren't actually awful. I think they are impressive, very impressive. The fact it can do it at all is amazing, however, the weird / bad part is the device is working sooooo hard to do something worse than a $99 dollar webcam. Which feels bad.

[@JonasViatte]

The biggest let-downs: -Field of view less than 100° -No stabilization in screen recordings -The fact that they black out some things in screen recordings, like if you’re watching a movie they black that out. Gives weird Black Mirror vibes that they can ban you from sharing what you see with your own eyes -No way to connect USB accessories including Apple’s own dongles. Means it’s unusable for many professional use cases, for example music production.

[@JonasViatte]

Oh and of course, the fact that you can’t rearrange the icons! How did they make that absurd decision?

[@theo5675]

FOV is not less than 100 They black out cuz that’s Disney copyright just like on the iPhone

[@TechRyze]

It'd be nice if the USB-C in the battery passed through to the headset, so accessories could plug into that. Even more, if they could make the battery setup into a wireless charging dock, with ports and magsafe to the battery pack.

[@steveallen8987]

Was the first iPhone in BETA? When did the App Store arrive on iPhone, 1,2,3?

[@TheiTE]

1:34:00 I think Apple already officially disclosed that Final Cut Pro will be available, somewhere on their website. But I don't remember where exactly...

[@JimmyHuynhdesign]

Why would the footage need to be stableized? The experience should be about having the headset on and using it, not recorded and shared for everyone through traditional screens.

[@stdesy]

Yeah but why NOT have the stabilizer for content creators? It might add some delay but honestly as long as it isn’t delayed inside the headset that’s fine

[@useruseruseruser424]

Well it would mean that apples footage used in their video wasn’t genuine

[@gillianorley]

These guys are basing the user experience on screen recordings posted by reviewers? That is NOT what a person wearing it sees. Just listen to what the reviewers say. The interface is rock steady. Or here’s an idea. Wait three days and actually try it themselves and THEN post a video.

[@KaiPhox]

How far away can you go from a window you left in a different room before it disappears or appears in your vision again (EG. Outside or another room)?

[@isleofgreg]

Yes! I wanted to know this too but literally no one is talking about it

[@KaiPhox]

@@isleofgreg Per Apple employees, Windows are persistent no matter where you go or how far away. I was told you are able to set a window position and ALWAYS return to it, no matter how many miles. Holding down the crown will snap all windows back into your immediate surroundings. But essentially this means you could leave an app anywhere you like and return to it later anywhere. In the world.

[@nyehu09]

37:09 "I disagree with a lot of the video just because I'm me." Thanks for acknowledging this, Sam. 🙌

[@Epicgamer_Mac]

Still excited for this product - overall the Verge’s verdict seems to be “It’s AMAZING… but not perfect. It’s not quite an absolute magical experience all of the time.” That’s darn ok for a first-gen product, when you look at it that way, wouldn’t you say?

[@jqyhlmnp]

For more than 1000 dollars? No

[@stdesy]

The Verge’s verdict seemed to me like it was awful, 100% not worth the money and the entire concept is flawed. At least that’s the impression I got

[@sanderhoogeland9161]

My impression from it is that they said that the technology is pretty incredible, but the limitations make it so that it’s not worth it to buy or use.

[@minarge]

I actually thought Verge's review was fair, Apple is trying to sell this concept of 'Spatial Computing' but ultimately it's a VR headset. A fantastic one at that, but it's a Beta product where Apple themselves are unsure of the use case and putting it out there for users and developers to try and find the best ways to use it (like the Apple watch) oh yeah and it cost $3500

[@ArmandXP]

Something I wish these reviewers would’ve said and if they had I missed it, are they airplaying this and recording it on a Mac, or how are they getting this video out? I remember them saying airplay was only going to be 720p. Possibly it’s a frame rate conversion that’s making a shaky video, is what I’m hoping.

[@nagyFerko]

As I saw they are recording it on a mac with airplay.

[@christopherbrunson1232]

I really dislike that The Verge’s pessimistic view of this product is the one you guys give the most weight. For me, tech is ALSO supposed to be fun. That guy literally didn’t smile ONCE! But more than that, he came off sad and bitter (and I’m not sure why, since it wasn’t his money that brought the device to his sad dark loft). I pre-ordered the Vision Pro because it looks fun! Not because it’s an “investment”. The same way I buy Gucci, Dior, Balenciaga……. If you’re going into this as an “investment” and you’re not a developer or blogger or content creator, chances are you’re like me and think it’s a fun product and wanna have fun with it!!!!!!! That’s what the Verge got wrong in my opinion.

[@jrrichards9392]

He is always sad and bitter when it comes to Apple products.

[@theentity05]

I agree with this. I noticed he rarely ever seems happy when he reviews. I don’t know if his bias is due to reviewing so many products or if he’s unhappy. He reviews it in a very negative way. There is NO personality. I think Brian Tong gave the best review. He showed us how the shit works, and his screen captures were far less shaky.

[@alex.mcintosh]

Nilay is very matter of fact. He reviews things with a high bar. You'll rarely ever (if ever) find The Verge rate a product 10/10, its even rare to see above an 8/10. An overly critical review is pretty expected of them. Yes, it's accurate. Is it giving us a realistic perspective of how we can utilize the device? No. Not at all. They didn't even try. Every new piece of tech comes with growing pains. There was once a time when people had to learn how to use a computer mouse and keyboard (yes, really!). This feels very much like that. Like introducing the first mac with a GUI to computer nerds that had all the keyboard commands on DOS perfected. I bet they hated the GUI at first.

[@christopherbrunson1232]

@@theentity05 I enjoyed Brian’s review as well. Really got me excited for the Vision Pro. There was another review that I enjoyed from CNET (I think; I remember her dogs name is Browser 😅). She gave a very fair and fun review

[@franklingoodwin]

It's the one which must be given the most weight for the good of the regular customer. Cope and seethe.

[@Bescher]

The fact that there is no Apple Sticker in the Box is telling me that it’s not a stand alone device.

[@jdarg4163]

Their is a Apple logo on the Box watch iJustine's review but the logo is really hard to see as it's in a similar colour to the box its on the side of the box

[@papervws]

@@jdarg4163he ain’t talking bout a logo

[@PySnek]

You need an iphone to use the Vision Pro. So yes, it is not a stand alone device!

[@Dave-cg9li]

1:06:40 John, isn’t EVERYTHING from Apple like that? Other companies could have technically pulled off an iPhone or Apple Watch at the time of their release, but no one wanted to. Things like software keyboard on a phone or 1-day battery on a watch were unacceptable for most people, so companies went with it. Same as the AirPods. I don’t know what you expected, but Apple isn’t some magical dream company. It’s still a big leap forward though :)

[@swai777]

Completely disconnected from reality and losing all tech commentator credibility to claim that Facebook could do the same as Vision Pro. That IS the thing. No other company can do it for obvious reasons. No other company as the manufacturing expertise Apple has. No other company has the Silicon. No other company has the display expertise. And so on. There are 2 Jons. The guy that makes amazing documentaries with so much talent and insight. And the one that says stuff like that.

[@MG-vy7od]

What hold up Nilay's review was the best? The - “Am I willing to mess up my hair?” “It works until it doesn’t.” “Vison pro…is not as good as reality.” “It's magic until it’s not” - guy?!

[@POVwithRC]

Absolutely. If you wanted a stroke job about it go watch golden retriever iJustine. Nilay did a pretty good job highlighting the good and the bad. Especially from the point of view of the average user.

[@DatDude923]

Nilay it’s such a contrarian, I don’t think he likes anything. Well, at the same time like everything. And if that was confusing, that’s how his review was. He hated the personas, but not once compared it to quest’s or the competition. It was such a weird video to watch. And then the way he ended it you’re gonna be alone, there’s no way to share this, meanwhile, I Justine shows her sharing with SharePlay…

[@stdesy]

That part about his hair was stupid. How vain is that guy? No, I don’t give a crap about “messing up my hair”. I don’t spend 30 minutes and 8 fl oz of gel on it every morning like he does

[@snazzy]

Messing up your hair is a legitimate concern for a lot of people. Sometimes people leave their houses.

[@franklingoodwin]

Yes. Because it's most like how regular custoners would act. We need more of that and less cheerleaders and fanboys who are so giddy Apple let them be part of the in crowd they won't say anything negative about the product.

[@ryanguy6789]

Great chat. What is really shocking to me is how many features on the headset are already present on the Quest but people are making it out like it's some amazing new thing. I've got the huge screens in my room in pass thru. I've got the hand tracking where you actually use the same gesture with your hand (pinch) to click. We have virtual desktop which allows you to project your main desktop in various environments or in pass thru. So much of this has actually been done by Quest already, just with some less resolution and and with the Vision coming in at eye watering $3500, has me scratching my head. Quest has OPTION to use controllers too. It has a built in battery. It has advantages and the 3 is literally the cost of the apple care for this device... Quest 2 on the other hand is even much less than the 3, doing the same things it can do - making it an ultimate bargain device.

[@Spykedjadedragon]

Exactly. That’s exactly why I was disappointed since the announcement because Apple didn’t show any new use cases except for tiny features that currently don’t move the needle much. I can’t understand why people don’t get this. My best guess is, most people don’t know how crazy good the Quest and other VR headsets are… so now they are easily wowed by what Apple is presenting…. Which is cool updated tech but nothing revolutionary.

[@ryanguy6789]

@@Spykedjadedragon yep, the quest is a killer deal. personally the eye tracking is cool but i like the having the precision of the quest controllers. quest 3 gets you a lot of the way for a literal fraction of the cost. i mean 3500 is out of the stratosphere compared to quest.

[@PySnek]

​​@@ryanguy6789eye tracking is also great for pcvr, gives you much easier 90 fps with the lower resolution. I bet my ass that the Quest 4 will come with eye tracking for not more than $650

[@Ni5ei]

​@@SpykedjadedragonExactly. I read so many comments beneath the previews which are obviously from people having zero experience with VR. If you take the Quest 3 and put the best cameras and displays inside along with eye tracking then it would beat the AVP hands down because of being so much more versatile. Heck, if I had to choose between the AVP and Quest 3 now (without money being a thing), I would take the Quest 3.

[@francishayter5954]

@@Spykedjadedragon Marques Brownlee has all the Quests and others, but still says the AVP is way better than them. So do other tech reviewers with large subscriber audiences.

[@PySnek]

1:00:35 this is already possible with quest 3 there are a ton of games offering similar features of placing things in the real world that stay there when you move

[@bulb97]

I was actually surprised and impressed by how the personas looked in Justine's video vs the ones in Apple's videos. I remember thinking it looked a bit too off in Apple's keynote. But it sounds like that's just me 😬

[@Motawa88]

The verge was so right about the controls. You HAVE to look on what you click and on my Mac and phone there is a lot muscle memory where you don’t really look to where you want to click or touch.

[@anthonyneilsonofficial8279]

I like the front display. It shows your eyes a bit blurred to depict that it’s really inside the headset not a front display.

[@jeffhartter]

Return rate over under 10%? I’m going with the over

[@stdesy]

My guess is 45%

[@alextoma402]

Pro XDR Display is like $5,000 without the stand. So the Vision Pro is kind of already worth it for just using as a 4k portable display for a laptop

[@theo5675]

True and it’s actually portable

[@Dani-kq6qq]

But it wont look as good, people keep suggesting this but the display looks better and multiple people can see it and it works with more apple devices. Like if you bought the xdr, then color accuracy is important to you, but vision pro doesnt have anywhere near the color accuracy.

[@theo5675]

@@Dani-kq6qq that’s a tech issue tho it’s not vision pro issue VR headsets would look as good as a actual monitor it’s not a lens Plus it’s probably the closest ur ever goin to get to a big monitor that’s portable

[@alextoma402]

@@Dani-kq6qq yea that’s part of the reason the Vision Pro is cheaper

[@DaPaximus]

I've waited so long for Sam's reaction. I knew he would get here and it's entertainingAF. Welcome to the fringes of development. :)

[@3D-PrintedCat]

As a developer watching this, it's amusing and still excited get this on the 2nd to hopefully build compelling AR apps

[@yolosolodolo]

Guys I don’t know if you realize this because Sam keeps talking about dragging things into his timeline while he’s editing. This won’t be possible on the Mac app. The only input for the Mac will continue to be the Mac trackpad, or mouse. It doesn’t look like the vision pro’s input methods will translate. So unless there is a native Final Cut Pro app for the Vision Pro, the only way you’re dragging anything into your timeline is via the iPad app.

[@TechRyze]

Copy / paste works using continuity (or whatever they've called it), so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they allow some content to be dragged and dropped across. I guess the more it's talked about is the more chance it'll eventually be patched in, if it's not currently there.

[@TRell454]

Jon is not the hero we wanted but the one we deserve….cuz he’s right the whole Beta thing is not an excuse the thing is $3500😂

[@rehufgoerhwfr]

Fr his takes where so good

[@ReviewThisTestThat]

Xreal air has solved when you use anker mode so there is a delay before the screen follows your movement to give a more fluid feel. Apple could do that

[@gvetech]

Correct. I got one last week, and I'm totally loving it.

[@bujin5455]

48:48. Dude, it's not about the money, it's about the physics. You can't build displays that have 100% color reproduction. Not only that, but you have a bunch of engineering trade offs all over the place. It's like this other guy who was mad because Apple's displays weren't 120hz. These are microOLED displays that literally are fabbed the same way processors are. They are the very best displays money can buy, and represent the pinnacle of the state of the art. They are the reason this device is this expensive. You can wave your hand and say that for $3.5k they should have nailed this, but that doesn't just magically mean Apple is exempt from physics. LOL Apple provided the very best product they could at the current level of technology. Time will tell if that's good enough. Clearly Apple thought the tech had finally matured enough for them to at least make the lowest, most entry level, version of their vision (no pun intended), thus allowing them to ship, so they did. Honestly, other than that you're looking for things to complain about, I don't actually see that the displays are holding this back from accomplishing the things that it will be good at. A large color gamut would be nice, but it's not going to stop it from enabling new previously impossible applications. Not having a high enough definition display sure would, but Apple nailed that.

[@midkay]

Spot on. The color gamut stuff is such pointlessly technical nitpicking. Once you actually put the headset on and use it, the "color gamut being less than the human eye" thing will just be stupidly far from your mind. It just won't matter. And of course they will improve it over time, but it's not some kind of dealbreaker by any stretch of the imagination. Yet somehow people get into this thought process of, "CAN YOU BELIEVE the screens can't reproduce every single color your eyes can see? I'm disappointed." It's bizarre.

[@theo5675]

It’s the same with the FOV cameras and lens are limited by tech it’s not Apple or Vision Pro issue This the best tech u can get right now I feel this just like the Og iPhone people hated on it cuz it didn’t do everything like they wanted it to do they wanted to be just like a computer and it couldn’t at that time but it was damn close

[@c.daubz.5386]

25:34 Jon is correct and Apple could have used the headsets motion detection hardware to help with that movement along with their ai to make the modeling way better, the whole product is an over priced public Beta, it is the best public device available yes and is necessary first step but not worth it unless ya have money to burn or plan to make money developing for it

[@Kampy_]

you guys really think the Verge had the "best" review? The guy who says in all seriousness "Does Apple expect me to mess up my hair every time I put this on?" Gimme a f'n break

[@POVwithRC]

I think it was a fair review. A lot of the friction points a normal user would experience were highlighted. As noted elsewhere, if you wanted a stroke job, Apple's in-house Pravda girl iJustine is waiting for your eyeballs.

[@matthewmastrobuono582]

The issue with stabilization is that it’s what you’re seeing. You don’t see the shakiness thru the headset because your brain stabilizes it. Your head shakes like the headset while you walk but you don’t see shakiness. But I agree sending a screen recording needs stabilization. Final Cut would do it

[@MarshallUpshur]

59:12 The moon shot (if no one has said it already) looks like it's from some of the renders from For All Mankind

[@iamhydroland]

But isn't it AR? You're overlaying software in the real world with pass through?

[@imanners1]

Witnessing Sam's disappointment in an Apple product is so satisfying 😂

[@GurtonBuster07]

Satisfying*

[@MeggaMortous]

Ngl he seems like a complete apple bafoon

[@adolfoecs]

Jon’s view and line of thinking is just genius. 100% love what you do!

[@steveallen8987]

With displaying a MacBook display he stated that you could only have one display showing not multiple monitor equivalence but he didn’t say if you could swipe between desktops within the window. Any ideas? Steve

[@BlakeLeasure]

🚨EMERGENCY EPISODE🚨 wrapped in my genius cloth for this BONUS episode

[@joeyscerbo7776]

I have to say that I'm fully agreeing with Sam on Personas. They look pretty much bang on to me and they can only get better from here. Some people do have a different perception of what looks uncanny, but what they currently have is exceedingly impressive to me. It's their face moving just like their face should. It certainly surprised me in a good way!

[@midkay]

Same, I was very impressed because they looked much better than I expected them to!

[@TechRyze]

It's a good jump-off point. The 'uncanny valley' weirds some people out, though. It feels creepy to some people, so the next year or two needs to focus on removing the weirdness and making the hair more natural. I'd like to think that we'll be able to import our own scans in the future, and go to a volumetric capture place and pay a fee to get a higher quality scan.

[@steveallen8987]

With the recording out of the users view it will appear wobbly because the brain automatically interprets vision as though it was stabilised and why would they use resources to stabilise something that is not needed. However do they stabilise the video recorded when shooting 3d videos for the photos app. I haven’t seen any footage showing that situation either way. That recording to photos could have stabilisation that is separate to the viewers pipeline from the cameras thus not introducing lag to the display view. Also will the iPhone include stabilisation when shooting 3d?. Steve

[@selw0nk]

I want to see Sam use the Apple Vision Pro with his big bifocals 🤣🤣

[@Jbmccarty21]

I don’t like Vision Pro or want a Vision Pro but it is amazing how you two are able to openly communicate your thoughts and hesitation with an open mind. I appreciate you two

[@JC012732]

Super excited to get the 5th iteration of this device in 2032

[@RayVi5ions]

Sam: I’m so sad that the screen recording is a 1:1 honest recording. It should be smoothed so I enjoy a misrepresented playback that looks better. It doesn’t work for my monetization needs as well!

[@MeggaMortous]

You can stabilize it in post

[@jedwardoo]

Sam, the shaking is solved on the next gen. This gen needs to get out the door and into the hands of developers and prosumers. The things you are complaining right now would be fixed down the road. If everything is fixed already. There would be no need of next generations and only change the chips.

[@Jdevil21]

We also knew 8 months ago the field of few was 110 degrees

[@Spykedjadedragon]

But that’s exactly Jon’s point in last episode… logically knowing the specs is not enough for people. They need to be shown in order to understand… That’s why the marketing and presentation matters and I have agreed with Jon since the beginning that they missed the core messaging on what we’re supposed to be doing with spatial computing during the announcement event.

[@Jdevil21]

@@Spykedjadedragon I mean. Are ppl really buying this as there first vr device. Everyone in vr knows exactly what 110 degrees is. I mean pymax vr makes the biggest field of you and they have a headset so wide it looks insane and it’s only 160 degrees

[@fifthgeneration3371]

Exactly! As a Quest 3 and PSVR2 owner I had my expectations set MONTHS ago 😂 I’m getting this day 1 but I know it’s still a vr/Mr headset. Just going into this knowing how much I love tech and VR and I’m getting a much much better version of the quest that’s connects with all my Apple products is a win for me

[@MeggaMortous]

​@@Jdevil21you would be surprised how many people are Apple everything and this is exactly their first VR headset.

[@mahfah7911]

16:13 Regardless of screen recording, having OIS in cameras for plain view will help with motion sickness in normal views. That’s the best idea for main menu or pass through and then when apps or games require developers can turn off . Simple. More people need to ask that

[@John-Smith02]

32:30 "I've noticed a lot of my fans that like say hey" Speaking of Hey, thank you Sam for mentioning it on The Genius Bar Podcast. I've been subscribed since at least January 2022, making it at home 2 years of using Hey Email. I also contacted them and paid for them a couple of years in advance.

[@tomkruk2585]

Did you see the stability of quest screen recordings?

[@lujahe]

You guys are obviously entitled to your own opinions. But... I felt like you guys were very mistaken in this episode. Let's talk about stability of passthrough. You guys talked about how the POV of reviewers looked different from the Guided Tour vid. That video had to be abnormally still to show off the device in a video. But, in real life, if your POV in AVP was that buttery smooth, you'd go insane. If you actually notice your natural POV for a moment, you'll realize it's a lot jerkier than you'd expect. Additionally, the demos in reviews are captured via AirPlay at 720p and not 96-100Hz. The experience is likely quite different on-device. I would recommend checking out Brian's review. I felt it was quite balanced and informative, with realistic visuals and expectations. Nonetheless, I love you guys and I've been watching/listening since day uno. Thanks for the emergency episode!

[@mikemanzano5363]

You would puke if it was stabilized. VR screen recordings are always jittery, but to the user everything is incredibly stable. Of course, getting screen recordings is a different thing, but that's not a normie use case. Stabilize it in your NLE.

[@kevinbailey8827]

@@mikemanzano5363 Apple SHOULD fix the screen recordings and stabilize them. For that matter, Quest should do it also! I've watched some VR game walkthroughs from Quest 3, and they're hard to watch.

[@mikemanzano5363]

@@kevinbailey8827 that would require extra processing that should be allocated to whatever application is running. It's not broken and can easily be done post production if needed.

[@Syntaxpoint]

So kinda under the radar or maybe I’m wrong, but doesn’t Eyesight show different angles of the users eyes for different people in the room looking at it? That would explain why the front screen has to look the way it does if literally a second person looking at a different angle is somehow getting their own personal representation at the same exact time as you…

[@unquestionabletv]

1:43:03 Jern, you can turn off Sonoma Reactions on the green Menu icon up top, I believe. It's not Ecamm.

[@eUploads]

We LOVE a surprise bonus episode!

[@sarrum7696]

dude, as I'm watching this I so badly want to just scream, like, GUYS! DID YOU SEE THE BRIAN TONG DEMOING THE NBA APP!?!?! - I LOST MY MIND!

[@midkay]

FOR REAL BRUH

[@CameronGrumet]

So excited to pick mine up Friday.

[@komasho96]

This just proves why Tim Cook is not a product guy.

[@sobeso]

Brian Tong and Joanna Stern Reviews were really cool and answered alot of questions

[@BryanLankston]

Apple absolutely used VFX to recreate the user experience in their videos. That UI has absolutely been layered over stabilized footage. Otherwise excellent points, I’m still very excited to get mine on Sunday!

[@kevinbailey8827]

I didn't trust any of the Apple promotional footage, as being actual Vision Pro footage, because so much of it was OVER THE SHOULDER of the person wearing the unit. But I relied on countless first impression videos on KZbin so reassure me that what I was seeing in Apple's videos wasn't far off the mark. Their descriptions made it seem as if the interface was rock solid. So I'm still expecting to be impressed when I see it on Friday.

[@kevinbailey8827]

And I was impressed.

[@MP-xz7om]

Love it! 2:35 Thanks for talking about this, these are exactly my thoughts about the reviews

[@_The_Matin]

I believe from a business standpoint, Apple had spent so much money on R&D that they could not have afforded to not sell it so early on ( that is of course if it kinda flops tomorrow). They took a risk, and gambled on developers to make the vision pro better. They thought "we would earn some profit out of it either way". Not a bad move for a company.

[@papascorp1631]

As a person who’s been following the VR/AR field from 2013, its crazy to see how different our perspectives are, specially since I usually agree with Jon on most things.

[@MeggaMortous]

So you mean you're not agreeing with him on this one? What has you thinking opposite?

[@papascorp1631]

​@@MeggaMortous Yeah, I think the thing that Jon and Sam are expecting would fundamentally go under a different product category. Of course we still need to wait for their new episode to hear their actual thoughts about the product, but listening to this episode was kind of mind blowing. First of all, we shouldn't expect a product of this caliber to be in a "glasses formfactor" any time soon, if ever. There are 2 main challenges for that which make the glasses formfactor unreachable: Optics. and chips. For the necessary optics, the glasses formfactor must use waveguide optics to be transparent, but waveguide has few major flaws: It fundamentally cannot project the color black, its insanely inefficient in its light transfer (even more than pancake lenses, which are already so inefficient that they pass only around 10% of the light emitted by the displays), and they're sort of soft/blurry while having a smaller FOV. And when it comes to power, unless we use a separate compute puck (basically the current battery puck, but it has also all the compute hardware in it), we cannot put a chip that's even remotely close to the M2 in power. I also think that they were totally off base when they were discussing the usecases of the Vision Pro. For example, when they said "the computing aspect would be the least important/significant part feature of the AVP," I was baffled by that respond. If Apple was trying to create a media consumption device, they wouldn't need to put such high resolution displays in this thing. They're aiming to replace your monitor entirely, they want you to work in a 3D space, with access to as many windows as you want by just looking at them. This is what Hololens wanted to achieve, but failed because Microsoft always drops products way too early. The "killer app" for the AVP is multitasking + how seamless (not perfect, but seamless) its passthrough is. You'll be able to walk around, augment your entire house/workspace with displays that always have relevant information, consume media, surround yourself by information while being more aware of your surroundings than you would be using a phone, and have compute intensive tasks running either on device or on your laptop, which you can also see despite it being in another room. I love what they've achieved and I hate that its Apple that's achieved it.

[@MeggaMortous]

@@papascorp1631 i see now what you meant. Yeah I think you mean something like the Xreal Air when it comes to glasses, right? I agree with your statement and I also am not happy that Apple did this first step, but also happy that there might be a more serious push now that we have this.. thing. Why I say thing? Because it's rather unusable. It tries to be an AR tool without the weight of an AR tool and completely disregards core VR usecases while being basically the exact form factor. Anyway I'm kind of hopeful for the future of VR in general, somehow.

[@TechSpaceCowboy]

For your content, the final cut stabilization should fix this.

[@swai777]

There was nothing in these reviews that changed anything, except maybe the black borders which, interestingly, are only mentioned by The Verge. I’m waiting to see

[@stdesy]

The Verge review made it seem like you were looking through a tiny port hole which is weird that no one mentioned that until now

[@swai777]

Yeah we’ll see on Wednesday. I’m pretty sure that was disingenuous

[@franklingoodwin]

​You'll see you were wrong. Then how will you move the goalposts?

[@83442handle]

6:30 As far as the Quest vs Vision Pro topic. I'll just say this as someone who has owned both a Quest 2 and Quest Pro. While I obviously don't have hands on experience with the Vision Pro, I can tell you first hand after having YEARS of Quest ownership from two devices that Meta cannot design and or support software to save their life. Owning a Meta Quest has been the most frustrating experience of my life of a piece of tech that I have ever encountered and that is not hyperbole. As I type this my $1000 Quest Pro is bricked from terrible software bugs that MANY users have experience(lookup the Meta logo boot loop issue and I have been trying to fix it for 4 days now). This is the second time my Quest Pro has been bricked since I bought it and my Quest 2 got bricked in the past as well. For all of this alone I will pay an Apple tax if the software actually works. These Meta issues are not one off things. Mark my words when I say this....Meta does not have proper Q/A on their software and software is incredibly buggy.

[@matthewmastrobuono582]

I agree with Sam on the personas. I kinda like it. It’s not real but it’s not going to be real. I wouldn’t want an Animoji. It looks fine. It’s sort of like a painting. But you know it’s not their actual face so why try to pretend it is?

[@Greatbubba747]

I think I have an answer for “why did the VP need to be released right now?“. My wife works in manufacturing and she’ll tell you that figuring out manufacturing is just as important as the R&D for the product itself. Therefore, I think Apple needed to release this now in order to make strides in that side of the product development.

[@elchavode6479]

I heard The fov is less then occulus

[@steveallen8987]

When you mention the viginetting, colour fringing and barrel distortion, those are due the camera not the displays. When I eventually get one here in UK, I will spend most of my time looking at the windows (argh), the pass though info won’t be getting my direct visual attention. As the eye only has a 5degree angle over view for accurate vision I’m not so worried about the edges of view of the cameras as I probably won’t be staring intently at the edge for long periods. Steve

[@Some.real.human.]

I definitely agree with the criticism but there is going to be a huge market for this. Let’s remember the first iPhone didn’t launch with an App Store and this guy is wearing $500 headphones

[@StefanoTonini-mi7oe]

500$ headphones only to use it wirelessly because you can't use it with AUX cable

[@franklingoodwin]

The market will be small will remain small. Most people don't and will never care about VR and AR. People have always cared about mobile phones. That's the difference.

[@Some.real.human.]

@@franklingoodwin this is a computer

[@franklingoodwin]

@@Some.real.human. Not a computer

[@benbunch4159]

Sorry but why are you complaining about the shake? Like…what? What are you talking about? You’re literally complaining about the…screen recordings? What? Who cares about the recordings. “WHY DIDNT THEY BUILD IN A FEATURE ONLY FOR TECH REVIEWERS?” Seriously?

[@midkay]

Right! Of course it's going to look perfectly stable when you're wearing it, so it's a non-issue. It's so silly that people would opt to be "disappointed" over irrelevant stuff like this rather than focusing on what actually matters - what it's like USING the product.

[@AEFox]

Ques Pro has an amazing eye tracking also, so what's new?

[@the_ccCreator]

You’re freaking out about how this looks as a 2D flat image. That’s purely a content creator concern. Most people won’t be trying to make high quality KZbin videos. They’ll only be using it to walk friends thru trying out the device, mirrored on their phone.

[@mitchellsmith4601]

Apple specifically tells people NOT to walk around outside with VP. Joanna Stern mentioned that her peripheral vision was reduced by the black border of the screens, and she actually bumped into stuff while wearing VP.

[@LoganT]

Jon, a first gen Apple product is never going to be perfect. They have to release it. They can’t wait until it’s absolutely perfect. They have to release it to customers because they’re going to shape and mold what the device is truly going to be used for. The 1st iPhone wasn’t perfect and neither was the first Apple Watch. Some would argue, they didn’t really hit their stride until the 4th generation of those products. You have to know this and if you do and you care, you shouldn’t be buying this product.

[@RaghavVijay]

You are right. I think the biggest issue isn’t that they haven’t been able to make it perfect-But more that they marketed it in the way that it was perfect when it’s not. Also the other thing is at the time of the  watch and the iPhone technology was still relatively new as a whole-Nowadays with it being so mainstream and integrated in our lives it has a different impact which is why people think it has to be perfect.

[@mta1864]

The thing I've not heard about yet in all the reviews (and I don't know if AR is significantly different from VR) is nausea. Every VR headset I've tried I can't wear for very long because I get dizzy. And I would imagine that if stabilization were applied, the offset to what my inner ear is saying would make the nausea even worse.

[@iron_recluse]

Few more questions I have… is 256gb enough or not? Do the lenses get foggy and does the Vision Pro have fans to control this?

[@stdesy]

It probably gets hot enough to cancel out fog. For my quest I heat it up with a hairdryer before working out and get no fog issues

[@iron_recluse]

@@stdesy that’s interesting 🤔

[@Ruby_Sterling]

Apple Vision Pro is like meeting a gorgeous, wealthy, nice guy who happens to howl at the moon and poop on your pillow.

[@Alex_an_der_theke]

I kinda disagree and multiple things here. Apple never said they made AR glasses. Its mixed reality... and really its VR. They realized they build for years but need customer feedback and engagements to get to the AR stage faster. Thats their final vision and the AVP is the first gen step towards that. So the productline itself is not flawed but the product has flaws. Apps with AR features will make this a much better product in the next 6 month. There are many things which are fixable or can be improved over time. Most of the things which seems to bother you the most. The Eyesight (who cares about that), the personas, the screen recording and sharing...

[@JayaByte]

me watching the episode in the quest 3 while working on different projects on multiple desktop windows while hearing them say the quest 3 is useless for browsing xD

[@airwolf778]

Good one 🙂

[@lucio20006]

I can’t wait to get mine. Everything they “want” or it’s “missing” can easy be fix via an VisionOS update so no big deal. It’s good to have those review like the verge so Apple now what to address in the next update. How good is to Apple to send units to review only to people that only talks great things all the time. Apple need the naked true in order to be better.