So How 'Bout That Turning Red Backlash, Eh?

Turning Red, a silly movie about a teenage girl who turns into a big fluffy- is that a plane?
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#turningred #pixar #drama

[@peter_pansexual6243]

They can't identify with a teenage girl but they can identify with a rat, a car, a bug, a fish, a toy and a robot.

[@yumalove7223]

What

[@peter_pansexual6243]

@@yumalove7223 I heard people complaining about this movie because they couldn't identify with the main character. Which is ridiculous because they were able to identify with other Disney Pixar characters that aren't even human.

[@octavianjoseph8633]

​@@peter_pansexual6243 And that take is nonsense, anyway, because if you have to closely identify with a character in order to enjoy every medium, then you might have a very narrow sense of enjoyment.

[@yumalove7223]

​@@peter_pansexual6243i know right

[@MoonShire]

Yes cause those movies are good.

[@Toadstoolthefroggo]

The argument that PERIODS ARE INAPPROPRIATE is so stupid. When do these people think girls get their periods??? WHEN??

[@PaperFlare]

Today's episode of "30 year old white men mad about little girl cartoons not being about them." They're just so exhausting lmao

[@RozehKakes]

you saying that out loud first made me laugh, then made me depressed super fun experience being online 😀

[@SonicTheHedgehog-yc6yv]

surprisingly, a LOT of people arent able to differenciate when a media is supposed to be "cringe" and written that way on purpose and when its an accident

[@Lily_Orchard]

That's because the people who most frequently talk about things being "cringe" and "based" are antisocial losers.

[@blitzn00dle50]

I am formerly one of those people. funnily enough, turning red was the movie that made me realize that such a complaint is frivolous

[@nexxanor-1059]

Just because it’s supposed to be done on purpose doesn’t take away from the fact it is what it is. Cringe. I love this movie. What I don’t understand about criticisms like this on specific media is the “it’s supposed to be this way” so?

[@Lily_Orchard]

@@nexxanor-1059 Okay it's cringe. If that bothers you, the problem isn't with the movie. It's the movie's fault you're a weak little bitch.

[@SonicTheHedgehog-yc6yv]

@@nexxanor-1059 thats not necessarily a bad thing. Stuff thats purposefully written in a cringe way is often for comedic purposes. Cringe doesnt necessarily equal bad.

[@Samata94]

The ending of the video reminded me of an infuriating discussion when i was studying to be a teacher. And it was the "problem" with modern books. For you see, more and more books have girl protagonist and one teacher student lamentet the fact the the boys in school has nothing to read. "When will they release a book for us?" Had one of the boys asked, and the teacher just shook her head in agreement. I thought i was going to see red, girls seemingly have no problem reading male protagonist books, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings etc but boys cant even consider reading a book that is up their alley unless the protag is a boy? And the fact that the teachers in the room agreed, what are we teaching the children when we agree to such a stifeling world view? Im not surprised if they grow up to be the kind of people that complain over any girl centered media as they have been encouraged to never respect girls in any setting! Also the back-catalog of male centered books is enormous, i think the guys will live.

[@kietdo4379]

Wow, brain washed much ?

[@panntingranten]

@@kietdo4379wtf are you talking about

[@lunamcboss6504]

What's funny is that when men complain about media not being for them anymore, it's most of the time not even true. Yes, women and racial minorities are showing up as main characters in popular media more, but they STILL make up the minority of overall media and advertising even to this day. They actually did a study where they put varying amounts of women and men in a room, and then asked the participants to guess how much space a given demographic took up. Almost all the men greatly over exaggerated how many women were present in the room and said they took up the majority, even when they actually took up the minority of space. Men have whined time and time again that they aren't represented, and time and time again it's been statistically proven that their representation takes up the most space out of everyone in almost all topics. They are just being selfish babies who don't like sharing even an ounce of attention.

[@varibunn]

Turning Red is one of the few movies of the last year that made me cry. Not because of angst or villains or deep maturity, but because Mei had friends who so deeply loved and supported her that I started crying my eyes out. I was so used to seeing movies where women were pitted against eachother violently over a man or eachother that seeing a movie about being a cringe kid, owning it, and having friends that supported and loved you alongside it made me sob.

[@niyaodom1944]

RIGHT!? I was so thrown when Mei said she couldn’t bring out the panda, the girls immediately went “okay cool gotcha we’ll figure something out” and then each of them started sacrificing their own ticket. It would’ve been SO EASY for them to become the villain Ming created in her own head to make Mei bring it out again. But instead, the tears and disappointment of her friends, the ones who gave her unconditional support and love, gave her the finally push. I watched that and was screaming at my phone “WHERE WERE THESE FRIENDS WHEN I WAS YOUNGER-“

[@pbxkreal]

fr

[@caleb6520]

Oh my God “my neighbor toronto” is a genius line.

[@therotryzit]

People who refuse to watch anything outside of their comfort zone or demographic are just very close minded. Why would you deprive yourself of interesting watching expieriences just because "you don't relate to it"? I always loved reading stories from outside my demographic because it's really nice to get to know more about other people's expieriences. I really love how they depicted Mei and friends being genuine girly goofballs their bond and their gushing about boybands was very adorable. I would love it if more girl friendship would capture how much teenage girls can be dorky goobers.

[@ramenaddict1676]

Every time something that ACTUALLY relates to young girls, it gets shit on.

[@colbaltmind5696]

Also to add, a lot of weird people don't actually understand Disney films. Most of the successful films were about personal aspects with action to just have fun, if there was even any action. Aladdin was a kid trying to compensate and gain appreciation and an identity using magic because of him being discrimiated for his poverty, The Little Mermaid being about a girl escaping an awful home life, and Mulan trying to regain her family's honor out of pure love for her family and discovering her identity in a sexist society. The action was just an excuse to move the plot along, but what people remember most is the relationships/romances, the characters and their "I want songs", and the villans who were the, surprise surprise, are the antithesis of the protagonists to highlight their struggles and outlook on life, because that's how writing works. Nobody talks about the final battle with Aladdin and Jafar, they talk about the flying carpet ride and song and their budding romance or Aladdin's internal feelings of inadequacy and his good friendship with the Genie, or with Tarzan, Tarzan's identity changing due to shifting circumstances and perspectives, not the battle with Clayton. Treasure planet flopped not just because of marketing, but also because it was just an adventure fantasy to find a macguffin with a father-son relationship slapped on instead of being the main focus. The romance and traditonally "girly" things like princesses and musical numbers about people singing their problems were the things that made the films. But they pretend the action is what made it because thats what apparently sounds cool instead of talking about "girly" things like feelings or internal reflection.

[@Invisble748]

What you said about Treasure Planet. I wonder if others thought the same as you. I never thought about that until I’ve read your comment.

[@colbaltmind5696]

@@Invisble748 like I Said the poor marketing didn't help but films like it and Hercules mostly flopped because there wasn't a good emotional throughline to invest audiences in the characters, like the renaissance films I mentioned. It was just some generic space exploration film with constant action and some random aspects slapped onto it with a glimmer of potential in the relationship between Jim and silver but that was only a minor part of the film in the grand scheme of things and as we know Adventure fantasy by itself is a pretty dated and cliche genre because for some reason fantasy writers can't stray away from just copying star wars or LOTR. The designers definitely had fun on the film but a lot of audiences at the time didn't, and even rewatching it compared to other films around the time like Atlantis it's incredibly generic and lacks what Disney is known and beloved for, something they only really rediscovered around the time of tangled and princess and the frog. I really don't understand how anyone can call treasure planet a cult classic because it's incredibly boring, and Atlantis, while similar in being action fantasy, had good characters and their dynamics alongside a good message about preservation and presentation of a culture that was way more sensitive and skilled than Pocahontas, as well as just being funny. I see a lot of people calling it a masterpiece when honestly there were better Disney films out there at the time like Atlantis like I said, Emperor's New Groove, Lilo and Stitch, and others. TLDR: Treasure Planet was unfortunately just pretty bland and it didn't help that it was only made out of obligation to the directors because even though I hate saying it: Jeffery Katzenberg was right in that the idea when it was originally pitched in the 80s, called it stupid

[@bleakautomaton4808]

This brings back a memory of when someone online accused me of being racist for liking Mulan (this was years ago and that nostalgia chick review on Mulan came out), funny thing that I'm sure. Many Disney films have their problems, it's not like I have rosy nostalgia for The Aristocats just because my friend and I would watch a vhs tape of it at her mom's, y'know? Or some creepy fixation on The Lion King (why am I now thinking of the Sonic fandom now, hmm).

[@colbaltmind5696]

​@@bleakautomaton4808Mulan is literally one of the best films they've ever made I don't blame you for liking it a lot. Like it has one of the most engaging and emotional protagonists (especially if you're lgbt+) besides Aladdin or Ariel, a great development of her friends and love interest that you can really get behind, and despite the film not really needing a villian it still sticks the landing incredibly well and has really good pacing and the musical numbers are iconic and the message of not segregating individuals by their gender and instead looking to their spirit and skill and even how far the three friends go from being sexist to understanding the power women can have by cross dressing and defending Mulan as their friend. It is a product of 90s American views on Chinese culture but luckily not as bad as Pocahontas was and even a lot of the storyboarders did a shit ton of research and areas a bit more sus were usually results of forgetting or the storyboarders and animators not being on the same level, so I can't really say why anyone would call the original animated film racist when compared to Pocahontas unless they were just wrongfully white knighting for a film they really didn't do any research for in its background or the inspiration like other actual Chinese youtubers did and they usually said the film was really good and only had some minor knitpicks which they researched and found to be just animator mistakes or something else.

[@Invisble748]

They should’ve made the father/son thing the main thing in Treasure Planet.

[@MisterAnonymousOwO]

The way a lot of this backlash can be applied to Barbie right now is insane, feminine interests and media just gets scrutinized that much harder :/

[@waifu_png_pl6854]

the backlash to this movie was the worst yet funniest thing ever. its such a fun movie that touches on puberty and also heritage and being in touch with your culture and its good to teach a younger audience that periods are OK and nothing to fear and encouraging them to cherish their heritage and not being ashamed of it. but i guess its not the 700th movie about a young boy coming of age and becoming more masculine, so it has to be bad because its not made with men in mind first and foremost and that just cant be. we cant let girls and immigrant kids have something, everything must focus on white men/boys or its bad

[@theaviator1152]

Lmao you’re turning this into a gender thing? Have fun with that mindset

[@user-pi8pi3wj7h]

​@@theaviator1152 bait used to be believable

[@Deman-sc4rc]

ITS HONESTLY SO FUNNY SEEING GROWN MEN CRY OVER THIS💀

[@wiktoriafrompoland2453]

In addition, grown men are the social group with the strongest opinions on the Barbie movie.

[@MrTurturtulTea]

ITS HONESTLY SO FUNNY SEEING GROWN WOMAN CRY OVER STEVEN UNIVERSE 💀

[@promethiada]

@@MrTurturtulTea Bro thought he ate

[@MrTurturtulTea]

@@abam9813 do you really believe that the writer intend to make a message abot forgivign nazis ? it's the intention that matters

[@aiolosfritzalas2468]

@@MrTurturtulTea honestly thats based

[@cheezbunni3530]

Honestly the point about Pixar movies is really interesting to me considering that Pixar was very well known for tackling personal stories at their “peak” And Pixar has continued to tackle very, VERY personal stories and gets more backlash than ever before. (obviously i know why this is but it’s annoying)

[@ahstiasummers5583]

I’d say this Turning Red is also about generational trauma. A different kind though. It’s not caused by a single traumatic event like in Encanto, but more trauma passed down by children repeating nonverbal behaviors modeled by adults. Cycle of abuse kind of trauma which is a quieter and less noticeable kind of trauma And as an Asian kid… I understand the cultural motives behind the actions of both Ming and Mei Lee. Mei Lee is a typical preteen that wants independence, Ming is concerned what her family would think of her

[@grandempressvicky6387]

As the kid to a black African woman, this movie spoke to me through generational trauma as well. My grandmother was really hard on my mother growing up, and so it made her very controlling of my life too. It took a lot and growing up in a western environment for me to put my foot down and not accept the bullshit. But I also feel deep sympathy for my mother because African grandparents will never apologise for the potential cruelty they inflict on their children/grandchildren.

[@TheChessicfayth]

Good shit once again. I will never, EVER understand the mentality of people who can't get behind the simple thought of 'This movie isn't for me, and that's okay, I'll go watch one that is.' God forbid they be challenged to empathize with someone else. But missing the above is just WILLFUL ignorance.

[@untitled-gv3qp]

Even if someones never been a teen that wanted to go to a concert you'd think the concept of butting heads with your parents over something related to either your maturity or their strictness would be a universal thing. I've never been into boy bands either but I can understand a teenager wanting something and feeling like the world will end if you miss an opportunity to get it.

[@duolingoowl920]

Wah wah

[@thepoetjean]

People seem to forget that most of the appeal of fairy tales -- and Disney in general -- is that they're personal dramas that use magic and fantasy element to tell the story in an authentic way. Romance, friendship, family, etc shape people in a micro and macro level. So ofc the universal appeal would be based on how the person could improve their life's circumstances and not so much the incidental elements like villains or a physical antagonist. Sometimes life is the antagonist and magic is the friends you make along the way (no seriously). It's a fairy tale, the fun is the point, y'all.

[@TheDoomBlueShell]

These people don't even hide anymore the new "discussion" is "Is Pokémon becoming too western!?" because a couple of shorts will have a brown girl as a protagonist and a diverse cast of characters, it's called Pokémon: Path to the Peak and it is on KZbin.

[@beautystitches2342]

You know what's funny? Many of these people will say, "this anime is from/set in Japan, so of course the characters have to be ethnically Japanese!" But they only say that because ethnically Japanese anime characters are white-passing most of the time.

[@TheDoomBlueShell]

@@beautystitches2342 Yes it is also why so many of these people have a problem with black people cosplaying for them is suddenly a problem because they are changing the character race but these same people were never bought up when the cosplayer in question is white

[@mikailaturkleson7472]

Man, her uncle's teeth hurt.

[@chillzone44]

I honestly really enjoyed this film but I loved the holier than thou parent's rage over it more. I'm so hyped to see what you think Lily!

[@untitled-gv3qp]

OMG, I saw so many people not getting the point of the movie and saying it taught kids to disobey their parents. Just because a teenager lied and the mom had to learn a lesson at the end. It was really annoying. And it's not like this is the only movie with that message. A lot of movies with teen boys are about them breaking away from what their parents want but they didn't get the same backlash.

[@chillzone44]

@@untitled-gv3qp some people forget that they were just dumb kids not long ago. Seeing Mei draw those square anime eyes on a boy she was crushing on was like being slapped with a mirror. I'm just convinced that they just want to make sure our womanly troubles stay just that, and then they don't have to think about us being gross or independent.

[@akirarose3947]

Shity parents who demand you owe them for raising you should really be thrown in prison and blaming it on Hormones or other mental afflictions and saying that it's now the child who has to fix themselves after they already broke them Is just.......sickening

[@AutumnBlaze689]

I feel your comment on the ‘Turning Red vs The Last Wish’ trend is the catalyst of the weeb adventure fantasy audience that other people exist and that they can’t have every animated feature appeal to them. I feel like that’s why they don’t like Turning Red, so they decide to give it backlash that sounds valid but is really a mask for ‘it’s not directed at me so I’m mad’. This is a good video as usual keep at it Lily

[@sailormermaidix24]

Thank you! The backlash that this movie got was utterly ridiculous. Like they acted like it was the end of the world or something. Turning Red, 2023 The Little Mermaid, hell even the freakin' Barbie Movie is receving backlash, by GROWN ASS MEN for the dumbest things. The hatred of girl franchises/ entertainment is deeply disturbing.

[@promethiada]

Turning Red and now Barbie just proved cishet white men really can't handle being told "It's not for you, and that's ok. Go watch something that is for you"

[@lucythevixen8757]

To the people who said periods are an inappropriate topic to talk about to children; I was 10 when I got my first one (my sister was 8 when she got her first) and my teachers and mother had to sit me down at talk to me about what was happening. I was a child. I understood what was happening to my body and why. It’s not inappropriate, it’s relevant. Also side note but my and my sisters school didn’t provide for our needs when it happened and maybe that’s something to get worked up over.

[@atiqahdiyana5665]

So mad I will never have the chance to pass through the magical forest of mommy issues myself

[@juanmanuelpenaloza9264]

I don’t get how guys said it was unrelatable. I thought Domee Shi copied my teenage life perfectly. Just replace 2002 with 2014, Toronto with Los Angeles, the 13 year old Chinese Canadian math nerd with a 16 year old Mexican American math nerd and the boyband with Vocaloid, and it's basically what happened. Hell, I'll say something more controversial... I found this more relatable than Coco and I'm MEXICAN!

[@LightSpectris]

Turning Red is such a delightful movie. The sheer joy and passion Mei and her friends have towards boybands and having fun just being 13 is so wholesome and sweet. It is not only nostalgic to the early 2000s it’s also nostalgic to adolescence in general. I can’t count how many times I saw parallels between Mei and Ming with me and my own mother. Even if the relatable stuff wasn’t in there, I still wouldve loved this movie because it is so unapologetically fun. So many movies brand of charm is just sarcastically rolling your eyes at stuff you enjoyed when you were 13, but not only is that a deeply pessimistic view, it also causes people to rant at ACTUAL KIDS AND TEENAGERS for liking stuff that isn’t directly targeted at them cos most adults my age are so fucking insecure they take their anger out on children and their interests. “It’s not for you” is usually a thought terminating cliche to stop people criticising their fave media, but that only applies if the vibe the movie presents is something your not interested in in the first place like I’m not into boybands but MeI deserves to go to that concert and party like 1999 but even if the movie has elements and themes that don’t necessarily resonate with you, just…fucking give something a chance. Have a healthy media diet for once

[@gamepopper101]

Yeah, I got sick and tired of seeing all people on this channel trying to argue that Dreamworks was the best studio because some teenager edited a bunch of villains over phonk music, and yet they all had the gall to say Turning Red was for teenage BTS stans. They couldn't comprehend the idea that someone like me liked BOTH Turning Red and Puss In Boots: The Last Wish.

[@infinitebananas8760]

The amount of people who treat the live action little mermaid as a crime against humanity is crazy. There were a lot of little back girls who were EXTATIC that Ariel was gonna be black. I thought the movie was really good, aside from a couple things. The amount of people thay piss and shit themselves over a song that was exactly what a seagull would sing is hilarious. Fr, yall were dramatic asf about it, Scuttlebutt was really not that bad 😭

[@ZeonTwilight]

Turning Red is a great movie and that's all that really needs be said about it. Heartfelt, genuine and funny, with a good message for anybody who's open to it. Also, I'm not sure when this one went in the can, but Mr. Enter seems to have drank some self reflection juice after getting hammered for the 9/11 thing because he's apologized for that nonsense and put out much more reasonable review on it. (YMMV as to if that's growth or self preservation, but it's there regardless) Keep up the good work on the content Lily!

[@sabakh9827]

I'm a girl and my introduction to Star wars was attack of the clones...and yeah anakin was cute and I liked the space wizardry so I watched them all To this day I don't get the argument of "prequels ruined my childhood" Sure they may have corny dialog sometimes (which I didn't notice because I watched them all dubbed in another language) but anakin's story has always made sence...it is such a interesting spin on a chosen one narrative and I think it deserves so much more credit..a common criticism of prequels specially attack of the clones is :anakin is winy...yeah he is a teenage boy full of emotions being told he shouldn't have them..why do we hate teenagers so much?

[@gruffen4]

Because teenagers try to do things their own way instead of quietly following authority.

[@brandonhann1508]

Yeah I never got the prequel hate either. The scen where they call awaking whiney is literally the scene where his mother. Like how is he supposed to feel?

[@CedarBlankenship]

“Obedience and respect should not be granted automatically. They should be earned. They should be based on the parent, or authority figure’s performance. Some parents deserve respect, most of them don’t. Period.” - George Carlin

[@aBeerFromHere7994]

My mom says that I shouldn't waste my time with 'nonsense' and what I should is learning for school. The problem is that this 'nonsense' is that what my school tells me that I should learn for my future job. Later my mom is angry that I performed bad at school. Then the cycle starts again.

[@SAM_ARTHUR_CL0VVNDOLL]

you’re right on the money when you say parents look for outside influences to preserve their ego. told my mum i think i’m autistic, she thinks i’m saying it for attention. told my mum i’m trans, she immediately thinks it’s actually an autism symptom and gets a diagnosis asap. she can’t accept the fact that i’m outside of her expectation of a school-driven neurotypical cis girl with no “identity issues”

[@Armaggedon185]

People like that are exactly why I don’t go browsing for opinions. Many of them are bad and painful to listen to.

[@brownbaron7179]

I can think of one other person who criticized Twilight properly. Dominic Noble has a series called "lost in adaptation" where he compares movies to the books they're based on, and I think you might like his videos on Twilight.

[@soupknight]

God forbid Canadians do anything

[@Lexyr_]

The sheer amount of men throwing an absolute fit over not being able to perfectly mirror themselves in the characters they're watching is pathetic. It's just another point of these assholes telling on themselves, considering how much they bitch about people appreciating representation in character design changes, like you brought up with Ariel or April O'Neil in the new TMNT movie. These people just fundamentally don't have the ability to empathize with anyone who isn't them, and with no flashy fight scenes to distract them from their sad baby problems, out comes the tantrum. On a side note, pfffft, I think you may be the first KZbinr to make me laugh at a description. That's an accomplishment.

[@sailormermaidix24]

Like foreal many women and other minority groups can identify with white cishet male and female characters based on personality and character but they can't do the same for characters who are BIPoC or LGBTQ+ beyond their physical appearance, identity or attractions? It's very telling indeed

[@dand1253]

13:50 - To be fair, Raya and the Last Dragon missed the mark on a lot of other fronts, chief among them being the attempt to represent, or at least appeal to, South Asian cultures. (There's an extremely neat set of videos on Xiran Jay Zhao's channel discussing that aspect, which involves interviews with people from said cultures and a lot of cool history/culture talk.)

[@captaincrash9002]

Considering everything about her book, I don't think there's any value in listening to her on representation of Asian cultures, or anything about writing.

[@blockEdragon]

​@@captaincrash9002I'm out of the loop, what's wrong with her book?

[@captaincrash9002]

@@blockEdragon Bad.

[@madsgrams2069]

Loved the shoutout to Bob. He really is the only one that pin-pointed the actual things wrong with Twilight...instead of harping on about superfluous BS, such as the sparkling vampires and simp werewolves...

[@VocalMabiMaple]

It's so interesting to listen to a critique on the movie from someone not talking about the asian culture side of it. A lot of it was really relatable to me (not so much the teen girl side, I wasn't raised as a girl) simply due to the fact that it addressed many of the traumas experienced by Asians not born in Asia. The traditionalism, the strict grades based performance reviews, etc all turned to eleven. That is not to say that other people don't experience those things, but that it talked about a uniquely foreign country born asian aspect. All that aside, yeah, I still generally find your critiques solid and well thought out, even when I don't necessarily agree with everything you say.

[@Lily_Orchard]

I've always been of the belief that cultural stereotypes about "Ethnic Moms" are harmful, because shit parents are a universal problem children have to deal with. And I have so far never been proven wrong on this front. This came about as a result of watching one of my friends being abused by her mother and her making excuses about "Well that's how Latina mothers are" and so I've made a point to emphasize the universality of neglectful or abusive parenting.

[@carysmacintyre8173]

I lovveeedd how this movie made Mei and all her friends act in a cringe way, they are 13!!! is so much more fun then a film about war with a cast of 13 year olds. just let the children enjoy the boy bands!!

[@midnightjay]

I personally really liked Turning Red. I think personal stories about character relationships are just really entertaining. The backlash was so disgusting. So funny that a movie mentioning mensuration and teenage girl puberty experiences is seen as "inappropriate" when we get the same stories for boys but it's okay when boys go through puberty. Just another way to casually dehumanize women and shame them for existing. I also think this goes into a much deeper problem of how perversely obsessed media is with women having a youthful image, pre-adult but that's a whole other discussion. Truth be told, if this was a tween early 2000's film about a white girl I know it would not have been as bad but still bad because tween girls are always the mockery of media. This video hit home seriously with the problem with animation and media in general. People just hate girls/women, PoC and are anti-black af and it's only when they see those things that they are openly critical. There's just a different kind of awful racism reserved for black people and it's tiring and sad. I always find it so funny when these dickheads are like "I can;t relate to this Asian-Canadian 13 year old so movie bad" when they can watch a movie about sentient toys and cars and be just fine. Un-fucking-belivable. The Little Mermaid live action broke the internet like it existing erases the animation Ariel from existence. Because it's never about that, always about seeing brown skin/PoC feature on the screen. And people did dunk on Disney live actions in the past but the vitriol for TLM was particularly disgusting. It took me back to the days when the Hunger Games movie cast Rue as black (which she was described in the books I've heard) and because feeling empathy for a black girl is wrong and hurts racists feeling they sent the actress actual death threats. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie that's in theaters right now is facing backlash because April is black again (I say again because she's a black girl in TMNT Rise on Nickelodeon I believe). But not just black, but *gasp* fat as well. And the stupid coping racist assholes complain it's not "their" April love to ignore the fact that the original April was based off of the creator's wife. And she was noticeable mixed but was whitewashed for the 80s-90's cartoon. Even if the movie is about boys/action, it has to be white/white passing boys to avoid issues of backlash. Whoa boy, do I remember when Into the Spiderverse was first announced. Even after it and the second movie recently, there's loud racists still crying about it or maliciously whitewashing/race swapping characters, especially Miles. The Spiderverse films are testament to this problem. The level of anti-black I've seen for this insanely successful franchise is insane. Racism, misogyny and lbgtq+phobia is always what it boils down to very time. It's tiring af and it's 100% true that the problem boils down to an loud type of audience being literally offended that the "default" is being challenged. It's been the "default" for too long.

[@alexgomez6723]

Admitting in this entire neckbeard tryhard clout chasing diatribe you spat through your Cheeto covered keyboard, you possibly had a case of bigotry in the first couple paragraphs, POSSIBLY, than you got to Spider-Verse, which flat out just proves you are reaching and grasping at straws to look for any “anti-black” racism reaction. Literally NO ONE had ever said anything about Miles being black, positive or negative, he was welcomed with open arms by internet nerds of various backgrounds and origins. So fucking sick of this fetishizing of “marginalized” groups, and I our that word in quotes not because I don’t understand what the phrase means, but because it’s very abused and twisted to fit into a convenient narrative.

[@wastelandlegocheem]

I still don't get why people say the anination is bad. It's STYALIZED. Come on people!

[@noodrasan]

My abusive father would give me the exact same speech at the same point of the car ride to my mother's everyday "do you know what the definition of insanity is?" Which was hillarous cause I was generally getting yelled at for something new I got in trouble for

[@beautystitches2342]

Many parents seem to think children are blank slates when born. More specifically, they see their kids as pieces of clay that they can mold into whatever suits them. But they don't know that you're supposed to learn about and get to know your child from day 1. Don't force them to be a specific way because of the gender they were assigned at birth or because of the parent's own insane expectations. Many parents in the past missed out on the beauty of getting to know the unique child they've produced due to things like economic factors (poverty, working multiple jobs at once, having kids for survival reasons, etc.). But even if their children grow up and end up in a better financial situation, these children have adopted the parenting techniques they grew up with and are now using on their children.

[@AshleyTheFighter]

As someone who doesn’t live in Canada but wants to move there in the near future, can someone explain why Toronto is polarizing? It seems like Canadians citizens all agree not to live there, but tourists wish they could

[@Lily_Orchard]

High rent, high congestion, few green areas, socially isolated from the rest of Canada and often forgets that the rest of Canada even exists, filled with tourists, and falling apart

[@AshleyTheFighter]

@@Lily_Orchard Holy shit I wish more people would talk about that! I wasn't even aware and I've had multiple people suggest moving to Toronto. Of course I was planning to do way more research in the future before actually moving, but knowing that now is making me rethink a few of those "friends."

[@Lily_Orchard]

@@AshleyTheFighter I wouldn't end a friendship over that, the thing about Toronto is that there's a certain breed of millennial that romanticizes it because it's Canada's biggest city. It's not their fault, honestly.

[@WizardClass6638]

Im gonna love ❤ to see what Lily Cooked up here.

[@thequestingbunny]

I'm excited for this one, too.

[@prowolf633]

I love Turning Red, it’s one of the few family conflict movies done right!

[@thepoetjean]

I was but a bab in the early 2000s so I didn't have much of a bone in the boyband fight (plus I was out of HS by the time 1D became popular so nah from me, sis), but when my friend shared her legit adoration of Turning Red I found it sweet and endearing that she found the early 2000s nostalgia authentic and relatable, so I got swept in myself. Again, it's meant to be fun! Have fun! Even if it's not your thing don't kick other ppl's sandcastles and call the bullying high art.

[@warriorshark6728]

My only problem with Lily’s videos: They are too short and there aren’t enough of them. Luv u Lily please don’t stop making vids you’re very good at it❤

[@edalynclawthorne5877]

Honestly all of this grew stronger and even more blatantly idiotic after Barbie. It’s a meme now to take stupid criticism about Barbie and laugh at it or make Barbie posters with it, but all this rings true to an even deeper level. Because the same people are upset that: A movie made about barbie (which has been decidedly targeted at girls, and progressive, since it’s inception), that was directed by Greta Fucking Gerwig, AND Starred by Margo Fucking Robbie wasn’t the exact thing they wanted that’s tailored for them and caters to them. It’s the turning red drama again, except to a new level and depth because it’s not “Pixar doing something that for once doesn’t cater to us” but is just an entire movie designed explicitly not for them, by people who have never been interested in catering to them, about a toy-line that they - I guarantee it/ bet all my savings that - never willingly played with. And they still bitch and moan. I’d say this could’ve Lily predicting the future again but this would’ve been the low hanging fruit of prophesy. At least we can hope that Encanto, Turning Red, and Barbie keep making those sad men upset and the rest of the world unanimously elects to put them far away in a corner and never look back.

[@dantejacks6956]

I thought the 9/11 stuff was legitimately the craziest and funniest part of the arguments around this film. When I stopped laughing and asked why they didn't talk about it, I remembered, I saw a film that was set in the great white north, it had its own problems with nothing American about it and I was relieved seeing it. The first hour thinking about the 911 stuff and I saw right through the BSit, I saw the movie when I bought it for home release and never regretted buying it. It's charming, sweet, even adorable, I couldn't love it anymore because there's no word to describe it.

[@januarythewolfalebrije8873]

I LOVED this movie and it broke my heart to see those toxic KZbinrs put this in their shitty ‘Dreamworks vs Disney’ videos Mei and her friends were so lovable and caring towards each other that I couldn’t help myself to see them as a polyamorous couple

[@chloenieuwsma4846]

Interesting you mention that. Meridian was originally going to be Meis girlfriend but Disney just kept them as friends.

[@otakueve117]

I remember when I finally got to watch the movie during my shop class back in high school. When it got turned on, everyone left because they thought it was boring or bad. I don’t get why people always think these type of films suck.

[@williamlancto3655]

As bald(ing) man was a crusty beard... I liked Turning Red. I loved the strong positive relationship Mei had with her friends and thought it was a very cute coming of age movie. I liked that we had a mainstream children's movie trying to de-stigmatize periods and puberty in girls. Those who can't enjoy a piece of media not targeting them are doing themselves a disservice and missing out on a lot of good stories. One of the greatest strengths of media is helping you get into the mindset of people different from you.

[@vizcainoia7602]

Lily I want to say thank you. I decided to revisit Turning Red as when I last saw it shortly after release and at that time I was not too far from leaving my abusive ex at the time. My second viewing, in the sanctity of my own home made my bawl like a little child. I just accepted the nostalgia for early to mid 2000's boy band and Twilight culture as it was part of my childhood too. I was able to see and actually take in the story without someone in the background making comments that bullied the way tween girls were back then. Turning Red gave me a story that was very similar to what I experienced with my own mom, but Mei got the happy ending and got to keep the panda (an integral part of who she is); Mei finally got to pull the mask of perfection off and enjoy the liberty that yields as a child. I only got to pull my own mask off within the last few months and I truly believe that this is the happiest I have been in a long time. Again, thank you so much for making this and by extension encouraging my own revisit of this movie.

[@paticornio9592]

18:06 I love the delivery of that line HAHAHAHA

[@sagastar4108]

Remember when one of its criticisms was it wasn’t realistic enough cause there was no reference to 9/11.

[@CannedH8]

Yeah! Oh, don't forget get to mention how they hit the fucking Pentagon as well.

[@mariatomlinson2663]

Not gonna lie, I adore the trend of fiction depicting The Awful Parents Actually Fucking Apologise. One of my favourite moments in Endwalker (spoilers btw!) is when the father of your twin friends - who earlier *disowned* them both because Alisae talked back at him - gets on his goddamn knees and begs them to forgive him and to come back to the family. Imo he deserved worse but ff14 rarely lets you pick actions more different than "emote a or emote b" so punching the bastard's lights out wasn't an option.

[@nataliefernandez2301]

I was honestly appalled at how much hate this movie got, I felt so seen in this movie

[@ohyikes7104]

i think this review of a movie that came out 2/3 years ago stays perfectly poignant and current seen as we are seeing the same discourse now surrounding barbie.

[@Lily_Orchard]

Turning Red came out one year ago

[@medtle1]

I related to Mei and Turning Red so much, but that's probably because I'm an Asian female millennial (even though I'm not of chinese descent or Canadian). But I saw a lot of guys and non-Asians relate to the movie; not just gals or Asians. Speaking of Brave, Brave went through so many rewrites because they fired the original director and creator of the story because they felt that the story was too girly and focused on the mother-daughter relationship and not enough action to "please" the guys under her direction (even though it was her story and she is a mother with a daughter) and it took them forever to find a male director that was willing to take over the movie. [Man, Pixar's come a long way from firing a female director off her own project to letting a female director have creative control over her own project. At least Brave didn't end up like HBO's The Idol.] The racist and sexist backlash against Turning Red and live-action The little Mermaid was why Disney mismarketed Elemental. [If it wasn't for the Asian writers promoting the movie in Asian spaces, it would have ended up like Ruby Gillman Teenage Kraken (which is ironic that the trolls tried to claim the movie as the anti-woke anti-Disney movie because of its mermaid character but then they didn't watch it because the main character is a teenage girl who is racially coded to be a non-white immigrant while the mermaid is coded as a white immigrant).] Funny, but not surprising, that Proud Family and Turning Red both have female teenage millennial protagonists of color, yet one has crappy friends while the other has great friends - and the besides their race/ethnicity, the difference is one has a male director and one has a female director.

[@ccshark3994]

I always loved turnig red

[@765craven4]

When I was a kid and teenager I was an avid reader and had no issue relating to female protagonists in books. Heck, I read Twilight because my older sister was super into it and actually enjoyed it because I was able to talk to her about it as I was reading it, and when the later books released we both would get our own copies to read and we'd talk to each other about it as we we're reading through. Some of my favorite book series from my childhood had a male and female protagonist who were siblings and often times I found myself relating to the girls of the duo. Children of the Lamp.and Secrets of Dripping Fang were two. And Goosebumps actually had about as many female leads as male, and a lot of my favorite Goosebumps stories had female leads. All of this to say, it's not like guys can't relate to female leads and the ones who aren't able to are probably not worth getting upset over

[@judith5187]

I'm sure it has been mentioned by others but the "so unrelatable" nasty comments are subtly racist too considering how many Asains born in the West strongly relate to the dynamic with the mom and how little representation they have in Hollywood. I personally found the film to be one of the most relatable movies I have ever seen for exactly this reason.

[@pkmnherofan22]

I was excited for this video and then you used 9/11 audio over Ming destroying the stadium and I knew I was right to be excited. This movie and Encanto were some of my favorites that year and I need more of it all the time. I’m imagining an alternate cut of the climax where dragonforce shred “Highway to Oblivion” to seal away the panda

[@masterengleza2738]

Regarding animated films that deal with girl and women issues, have you tried watching anything by Satoshi Kon ? He is an anime film director, just bear with me for a minute he is one of the good ones like Miyazaki , that makes films with female protagonists. His first film Perfect Blue deals the toxicity of idol culture and the effect it has on the female singer and Millenium Actress is a fictional biography of a fictional actress and how certain events in her life shaped her in the woman she is today .

[@Lily_Orchard]

"The toxicity of idol culture" I'm down for anything that trashes weebs

[@Tuna-gu9un]

My dad had authoritarian/ neglectful parents and I saw that they were still really sucky even when I was around and a few years ago we went no contact. My dad didn’t go that parenting route so that’s nice

[@dancer2652]

Hell yah! i really like this movie! certainly a top 3 animated movie from 2022

[@vixxcelacea2778]

I loved this movie. It was such catharsis to have a movie mom do what so many people crave for their parent to be. Not only to say sorry and admit being human, but also to actually let go, to move from the point of "my child" to a person, a fully fleshed or burgeoning person. "The further you go, the prouder I'll be." Just ... damn. No, our parents will never do that, but even hinting at it being a possibility might seep into future parents. Also, the anti-girl (I don't mean women, I mean girl) rhetoric from everyone in culture is depressing. Even other women mock little girls. It sucks.

[@Adrian_1114]

This movie instantly became one of my favorites just because it was unapologetically itself

[@mapplehitoritheartist9114]

THIS MOVIE!!! for very personal reason it made me cry... the first disney movie that made me cry like a bitch.. a guilty like to me since i saw a lot of faults on the movie since is not a movie for me specificaly, still enjoied for what it is, a fun movie.. but dam that scene O.0 ( wont say which one)

[@MysticDiamonds5566]

And so it begins.

[@SilentRuth10]

Loved this movie, made mee cry multiple times. My mom and I were just as close as Mei and her mom. Around high school, I started questioning my mom, and that's when our relationship wasn't as happy. I'm still trying to determine what relationship I want to have with her - it's an ongoing process! - but it was so nice to hear this Pixar mom apologize for her actions but still emphasize how much she loves her daughter. "The farther you go, the prouder I'll be"...such a good line. And hey, that relationship could exist with a boy and his parents, too! How wacky! 😂

[@fourcatsandagarden]

...I forgot about the train's last stop.

[@theMillieBun]

i feel like anyone that argues that dreamworks is better than disney like that channel shown at 12:18 only has watched like 4 of their movies in the last 10 years

[@mosesmm5473]

Frankly, I really like your videos as they always break things down in a way that both informative and fun to watch as I often have the same complaint, but don't know how to word them to myself or even others. It's why I can feel for Hollywood executives and writing teams when it comes to animation as a part of the fan-base just want the same old stuff but if you call them out for it, they get mad. Meanwhile, another say they want something different but they really mean surface level different and when called out for this-also get mad. For Turning Red, I think that people can relate to her as you don't need to have been a teenage girl in the early 2000s, you just need to have strict parents growing up as a lot of us in Africa and Asia did and do. Kids like that can all remember that kind of pressure and how stressful it could be, and in many cases, you didn't feel like you could talk to your parents about it because you felt like you HAD to achieve that goal. Granted, I was lucky in that my parents while strict did reward good behavior and achievements, even small ones, but just because I didn't turn into a literal bear, doesn't mean this movie doesn't remind me of those days. Is the mother's arc a bit rushed? Sure, but it's not a deal breaker. As for why this approach to parenting is still around, I would say it's partly because it has nothing to do with the kid as you say, but not as much as the parent either, it's about the family as a whole, a 'underachieving' or 'rebellious' child reflects poor on the family in their eyes, so they stamp it out. An extreme example of how image can matter more then action is how in Japan, you can take someone to court if they damage your public image or honor, even if the statement is true. If I told people my married boss was having an affair, even if they were, if they found out I was the one that told others, they could serve me papers because the statement inherently makes them look bad. Is this an extreme example? Yes but it goes to show how people can value the perception more then the reality and this easily applies to families as we're all seen the troupe of how the seemingly perfect wealthy upper class family is actually super messed up, or how the seemingly prim and proper student is actually a party animal, drug addict or excessively violent whose parent cover up for them 'because it would reflect poorly on (insert family name here) and they can't have that' This movie seems to take that into account as the mother might be overbearing, but we see that the grandmother is much the same to her because it would HER look bad if her daughter wasn't a good mother. As for the two examples you gave, I enjoyed Brave as I was a fun movie whose only crime in my eyes was that it came out too close to Frozen which blew everyone out of the water. And Frozen, my only 2 gripes with it is it was everywhere which is just a mean problem which has nothing to do with the merit of the movie, it's marketing team certainly earned their bread, it was just...oversaturating as I couldn't go out without seeing or hearing something Frozen related for a while there. My other gripe is that stupid twist villain as the movie didn't need one, it was a story of sisters, of accepting yourself and allowing others in, Hans wasn't needed-he didn't even make sense as his plans called for both to die, but when he had the chance to let Elsa die, he saved her....why?

[@jimbopkiller3844]

Always nice to see more of you two! After realizing I'm trans and academic anxiety from my parents skyrocketed (especially with my brother leaving for college and so the focus is on me) I relate to these movies an uncomfortable amount. But I can always appreciate these cool perspectives from Lily.

[@sunseraph1919]

I hope this doesn’t come off weird, but your voice sounds pretty good for being sick. (I often find that I like my voice whenever I’m sick. And the only downside to me healing is that the new voice that I like ends up going away. LOL)

[@cloudbrooks]

oh neat, this premiers at 9 tomorrow, and the animal crossing new leaf fireworks show starts at 7. looks like my sunday will be eventful after all!

[@spyrkle4777]

Loved seeing you talk about this movie n.n

[@herozen1338]

babe, lily orchard uploaded a new video tearing apart the stupid movie people. grab the popcorn!

[@existentialhorror2218]

I love how you point out problems in pop culture discours that basically noone talks about!

[@nicholasfilippidis5705]

In all honesty the movie was okay despite not being for me, objectively I'd give it a 6 or 7 out of ten given a lot of the jokes seemed okay but just not targeted at me but the plot of itself when focusing on the main characters relationship with her mother was well done. My issues come in with factors that I admit, may just be nitpicky or misguided, but are issues I have nonetheless. The first being the inconsistent nature on whether they want to use the panda as a metaphor or use it as a cool literal panda, cause obviously the panda is real and it's simultaneously dangerous since it gives the main character the ability to potentially flip over cars or cause huge amounts of property damage, but the more notable issues to me is that since the main characters panda transformation is set up to be a metaphor for puberty the fact her solution to not having money to go to a concert is to flaunt around the panda and let just about anyone come and take pictures and videos with it. Again, I understand that the metaphor stops after a certain point and what the other kids love is the literal fluffy animal that can walk and talk, but maybe they could have spent more time trying to clear up the fact that the puberty metaphor stops before the protagonist flaunts what's meant to be womanhood personified. That, alongside the fact that our protagonist is now a 13 year old girl so suddenly we have three separate scenes that casually just have to do with her having a large ass (her getting stuck in an alley, and two separate dancing scenes where she shakes it for people and or directly at her mother) just feels weird and incredibly invasive. Idk, maybe I'm just looking too deeply into the film or fucking up the metaphor but nonetheless there's not much to be done but put into the pile of okay films that I'd pass if I was asked to reawtch it

[@kingbacon6563]

When I first started watching this movie, I thought it was gonna be a bit too cringe. Not exactly because of the way the kids talk, but I just couldn't watch the scene where the mom confronted the stork clerk; that level of anxiety and privacy invasion hit a bit too close to home, but once the Red Panda appeared, I was completely hooked and the movie was delightful. It was just really nice seeing Mei be her own person and being happy doing so. I genuinely chocked up when Mei was about to give up her Panda and I was so happy she didn't because it's the first time she actually, truly put her happiness first to make a decision (also the Red Panda looks so cuddly and adorable, imagine turning into that when you're super happy). Turning Red is lovely film and easily one of Pixar's best, which is no easy feat.

[@MysticDiamonds5566]

Yeah I definitely loved the movie, my sister loved the movie, and I listen to the *Pandas Unite/Nobody like U (reprise)* often.

[@popperscore]

I didnt realize "these old men cant empathize with anyone that isnt exactly like them" until this video. Maybe not that specificly, but nerd men have always been weird.

[@herebejamz]

I remember when I made fun of Twilight uncritically in a very misogynistic way. There was a strong cultural pull to do so especially for teen boys like I was at the time. Boy howdy is there a lot of dumb baggage people need to unpack. For the love of god maybe we can get over this crap someday.

[@Nube-Gamer]

17:51-18:08 I'M WHEEZING WTF?! x'D In a different country entirely was what really got me

[@xfacade_productions]

11:20 As someone who lives in Ontario,. Toronto, especially now a days, is the worst possible thing, overpopulated, cars everywhere, and stress-inducing. (Ontario itself is known as one of the worst provinces so) But im pretty sure, or so i've heard, Toronto used to not be so horrible and expensive to live in and stuff. My dad used to really like Toronto but it's not so glamorous or worth it to go anymore. Unfortunately, Toronto may be a place I need to live in for my career choice but it might be avoidable. Anytime I saw anyone talking about this movie, in the comments I would always see people being like "But I want a story about man issues!", "What about my manly needs?", "Its the mens turn to get a movie" and to be frank it was fairly annoying like holy shit what. And people kept talking about how wrong it was of them to animate a 13 year old twerking, how innapropriate and...everything it was...when Minors do innapropriate crap all the time, again, they're trying to depict how silly you are when your starting puberty and beginning to become a teen and stuff. People who whined about cringey don't realize they were probably a shit lord too. I think the people who think the twerking was so horrendous and the whole list got some serious problems they need to keep tame, it's not that deep.

[@scarletgamingstudio]

Haven't watched turning red yet but I plan on and honestly realizing that guys had their spotlight and this movie gives chicks like me a spotlight and feeling scene makes me pretty happy. I may have a bit of tomboy in me but I still go that deva fiction and art loving women.

[@soysaucescumbag4310]

i would really want to see you review arcane after seeing what you think about representation, serialization vs episodic and overall just the messages about "lets talk about why your story based show will suck"

[@Lily_Orchard]

Mikaila did a video on Arcane already

[@stopmotiongarage220]

I also enjoyed Turning Red, it's was also around the time i realized if i want to know if I like something i should just go find out for myself.

[@ThePiachu]

I watched Turning Red when it came out, and enjoyed it quite a bit despite being a 30 something guy from Europe. But I guess I enjoy joyful animated things. It was fun seeing the characters go through their problems in an over the top way while dealing with the panda problems and so on. Between that and Elemental we are getting a bit spoiled with movies about first generation immigrant families, which is neat to see! The backlash kind of reminds me of the backlash against MS Marvel TV show. Like "oh no guys, how dare Disney make something that's not for you...".

[@ren_7308]

OMG this is the very thing im currently going rn. AT 22!!! IM ALMOST 22 having to go through yhis very thing with my manipulative father. Im gonna be moving out in less than 2 months from now and ive been at war in my head about wether to go no contact with my dad because of the amount of stress he's put me through all because of a decision i made to leave my old job for one that is much more high earning. He has emotionally dragged me since i got my new job. Its only recent as a week ago that he actually stopped talking about it but Everytime i mind my own business and do things that i want, he always has to ruin it by trying to dictate what I can and cant do by belittling me and my choice as A GROWN ASS PERSON. I'm going to go no contact with him and I don't know if ill ever get to a place where i wanna even hear his voice. The sad part is is that that would also mean i can't talk to my stepmom and step siblings because my dad will just try to reach after me through one of them.

[@jadedjaws4952]

Dang, I know there wasn't a lot of love for this movie, but I didn't know the backlash was so asinine. I saw the movie and liked it, I couldn't figure out why people DIDN'T like it. I should've known racism had something to do with it. It featured a Chinese family, and came out after Covid, which Trump loved blaming China for. He was constantly referring to Covid as the "China Virus", and other racist terms, repeatedly AND openly during speeches, encouraging the far right Nazi's to attack and terrorize Chinese-Americans (any Asian-American who looked Chinese actually, racists don't really care about those details). If anyone hated the movie, I just assumed that was why. I grew up an abused and depressed transboy who didn't know he was trans and always fought girly shit. I didn't relate to the girls in the movie a lot, but I was also a gay boy into N*SYNC and ironically had a crush on the gay one. What threw me off was how big "boy bands" were in the movie, but NOT with my friend group growing up. Or any teen girls in school really. My friends were all girls, but also girls in abusive families because of course they were, and they liked punk things, anarchy (we were young and dumb), PETA (still young and dumb), and wearing black like everyday was a funeral (now a days I like wearing black because it's slimming). We listened to bands like Good Charlotte and Linkin Park. LP is still my jam, I give no fucks who knows, but liking boy bands was a thing you didn't share with others unless you were too young to realize life sucked and also craved the emo scene. High school is hazy through all the bullshit of my childhood, so maybe I'm remembering it wrong or that was just my experience growing up in a rural area and therefore "not the norm" (tho as a trans guy that ship sailed hella long ago). Our school was made up of trailers and slapped in the middle of a cow field for fuck's sake. (I'm serious, SVRCS, look it up. 😂)

[@Lynxan]

The main thing I liked is it really felt like something different, something that is so rare now a days.

[@MommaDusk]

I have yet to see the movie because I heard it was an allegory for puberty and I have seen that done wrong. I am still worried that I will not enjoy the movie because of that despite the fact that I know a few people who say that I will love it, and I really want to enjoy the movie. It sounds like the perfect movie for me, since I often dream about what it would have been like to have been out of the closet back then and enjoying the things that I secretly enjoyed instead of hiding them.