Softboxes VS Silks For Diffusion | Lighting Gear Discussion

[@esteva03]

This is the first video I've seen where the shadows change with distance. I thought that distance meant diffusion and gave soft shadows, and close light was more "straight" and gave hard shadows; but it's the other way around. In my experience I've tried to make hard shadows with small single powerful light sources. Is distance a better solution? Thanks for the content!

[@TrentonHoshikoCinematography]

So glad you liked it, I really appreciate your kind words, they made my day! I totally understand why you thought about it that way before, glad my examples helped clarify some. To try and answer your question, there are a few different factors that all more or less adjust the shadows: relative size, distance, and diffusion material to scatter the light/tools to make the light harder. So it isn't exactly a one-size answer. Distance is a REALLY powerful factor here, but it comes at a consequence of exposure. So to reduce the exposure drop you can also use a smaller source so that when moved further away you can get hard shadows while minimizing exposure loss. So I kind of like a middle approach myself, but generally I think that it is important to consider the distance in particular because it is usually a lot easier to move your lamp back rather than get a smaller source if you want your shadows to be a bit harder. The easy to remember example for hard vs soft shadows is the sun itself! The sun is HUGE, but VERY far away, so the relative size is like holding a small coin at an arm's length. On a cloudless day, the sun would create hard shadows on the ground. On a cloudy day, the cloud catches the light and scatters it, but also is much bigger relative to pretty much any subject on earth (like a person). If it is a small cloud the shadows will be less soft, if it is an entirely overcast sky there could be no shadows at all. Of course, in this example, it is a combination of effects from the relative size and the scattering of the light via diffusion material (the cloud). Hope that all helps, I will probably make some more videos on this subject because it is very important! :)

[@druid-alpha]

this is wonderfully informative, thank you!

[@TrentonHoshikoCinematography]

Glad you liked it and found it helpful! :)

[@cameralance]

Thanks for sharing!

[@TrentonHoshikoCinematography]

Thank you! :)

[@sigbausage3116]

Does a combination of softbox & silk (closer to subject) lead to an additional increase in softness? I seem to be hearing such different takes on this.

[@TrentonHoshikoCinematography]

Mostly, yes. But there are a few considerations to dial it in. It depends on the size of the softbox and the size of the silk/diffusion, and the proximity to the subject. If the silk is right next to the softbox, further from the subject, the softness wouldn't change as much because of the size of the diffusion relative to the subject, like what is shown in this video. But the additional material would scatter the light more, making it softer, while costing you some exposure. If you diffusion is closer to the subject then it would benefit from both. If your diffusion is smaller than your softbox and the softbox light spills around it, that light would be as diffused as the softbox would be from that distance, while what passes through the silk is further scattered and the "new" source of the silk is closer to the subject, both in turn making that part of the light softer. And, it would feather the change between what is being double diffused and just softbox diffused more. Doubling up on diffusion can also help by using different materials with different light-scattering properties to further customize your lighting look. I would say that to make using a softbox and additional diffusion/silk work best though, use a diffusion material that is larger than your softbox to maximize the surface area of the "final" source before the light hits your subject. That is how to best use both to make your light softer by maximizing both the size effects and scattering effects. I have a video that might help with this, too: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4mygGuHZ7Slq7M Hope that helps! -Trenton

[@garrrbarr]

Do you need a c stand to hold diffusion? What about a cheap mic or light stand and a clamp? Diffusion silks are light--or are they? And ehat about negative fill - I'm assuming that's cheap too... I'm new to this

[@TrentonHoshikoCinematography]

Always good to ask, especially when new! :) I would REALLY recommend a c-stand, not just from a functionality standpoint, but also a safety standpoint. C-stands are heavy and can be easily weighted. While diffusion silks are seemingly light, they are kind of deceptive because the sturdy metal frame is decently bulk, and more importantly, it is long so it changed the balance. Same for any grip head mounted light modifiers, and flags are even heavier because of their heavy fabric material. I would not use a mic stand or a light stand for these things. A light stand, in my opinion, can be used with a simple clamp to hold a pizzabox, bounce card, or reflector, if it is properly weighed down, but anything that is extending more is better off on a c-stand 99% of the time. We want to avoid tipping risks as much as we possibly can. If you can't afford a c-stand, there are things called T-stands, which is really a crossbar on a lightstand - you can clamp diffusion materials (like unframed silks) to these and weigh them down for a safe alternative to c-stands because the weight isn't being levered by an arm in the same way. IMO a c-stand or two is a really worthy investment if you can afford it/have the space, and want to manipulate light and have flexibility in doing so. I have some more videos coming on real soon about diffusion material alternatives, safe alternative mounting, etc. so keep an eye out for them. They talk about a lot of what I've written above but go deeper with examples. :)

[@garrrbarr]

@@TrentonHoshikoCinematography thanks so much for your advice. The size of the frames changing the balance especially never occurred to me, and I didn't realize flags were heavy. Appreciated!

[@TrentonHoshikoCinematography]

Glad it helped! Heavy is a bit relative, but definitely heavier than you might think just looking at them!

[@meltysundae4540]

When you move further away actually its not diffuse and make the shadow harsher.. its because of the angle and the size of the light or modifier.. if tou move it further away you need to adjust the angle of the light a bit to the front

[@meltysundae4540]

Why use silk because back in the days Arri light dont have bowens mount

[@TrentonHoshikoCinematography]

How many takes do you think I flubbed "C-Stand Silk"? Ok, real question of the week: what is your favorite movie with lots of unmotivated lighting?

[@TrentonHoshikoCinematography]

I particularly like giallo movies for unmotivated lighting, lots of Argentos, Strange Color of My Body's Tears is a good more recent pick too.