Antinatalist interview-Amanda

[@exploringantinatalismpodcast]

Before I say anything else, I want to take a moment to say my most sincere thanks to Mark for welcoming me on to the channel, and for allowing me to speak my Antinatalist worldview. I have been a huge fan of Soft White Underbelly for a long time now, and so to be a guest on a channel that I respect & love so much is a huge honor, and a dream come true, thank you! I addition, I want to thank all those that have left comments - even the nasty ones - I appreciate all of you for listening, and for engaging with the idea at all, even if you find that you hate it and that it disgusts you. Antinatalism is a difficult, uncomfortable, controversial subject, but one I believe to be of the utmost importance - it is perfect prevention - and so once again, I thank you all for listening. A couple of things that I keep seeing in the comments that I would like to address - “These are just first world problems” - No. Antinatalism is a global phenomenon - we are everywhere. I have met Antinatalists from nearly every walk of life, race, creed, religion & socioeconomic status. Some of the biggest AN communities online originate from Lebanon, India & Egypt, and some of the best and most well know contemporary Antinatalist philosophy comes from places such as South Africa, Finland & Brazil. “Why don’t you just go kill yourself?” - This is hands down the most common response that Antinatalists receive when the subject comes up, so for anyone who thinks that this is some kind of cleaver response, I’m afraid you couldn’t be more mistaken. Killing myself will not end suffering, it will not end procreation, & it will not fix any of the problems here on planet earth that Antinatalism seeks to address. In addition to being an Antinatalist, I am indeed also a Right to Die activist, so yes, I do believe that people should have the right to exit existence, just as much as I believe they should have the right not to have existence imposed in the first place - But there is nothing at all illogical or hypocritical about an Antinatalist remaining alive once we are here - someone else decided that I should exists - I am alive, and once we are alive, the desire to continue to exist is strong, life becomes an addiction, and not one so easily severed. In addition to this, Antinatalists have an important job to do in protecting the unborn from being brought into existence - and so I will remain alive as long as I can to continue that fight. Live your life, so that perhaps by your efforts, someone else will not have to endure theirs. “She must be miserable!” - I have lived and continue to live a very good and happy life. I’m an artist, I’m a toy collector, I have love in my life, friends, meaning, and I get to live my dreams by being an activist for someting I am passionate about, and doing awesome stuff like being a guest on Soft White Underbelly : ) The point is, when we create someone, we impose the risk of creating someone who will not enjoy being alive, who may experience great suffering, and who will inevitably die - and we do so for no other reason than our own selfish desires - that is not an ethical or necessary risk to take with someone else’s sentient welfare. “Is she vegan??” - I have been a vegan for 8 years. Yes, there are fat vegans, what do you know? ; ) “I love my children and it was the best thing I ever did.” Please love your children, be the best parents you possibly can be. But please also know that by bringing someone else into existence, you have imposed tremendous risks on to the new beings, that they may not in fact be nearly as happy about. You are not in control of who that person will be and or is, and you can not control what they will experience. This is not about YOU, it’s about THEM - those you will create - their suffering, their welfare, their experiences & their eventual death. If anyone would like to learn more about Antinatalism, I invite you all to check out a recent essay by Antinatalist philosopher Matti Häyry & I called, Imposing a Lifestyle: A New Argument for Antinatalism, you can find it here: www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cambridge-quarterly-of-healthcare-ethics/article/imposing-a-lifestyle-a-new-argument-for-antinatalism/D31CFBA4E8BB207D7C24A68E415A8AB0#article And I also have a show called The Exploring Antinatalism Podcast, which has been running for almost 5 years strong now, and is one of the best places to learn all about the subject and hear from Antinatalist philosophers, artists & activist from all over the world: kzbin.info/door/A8FKcLhdLOHkZtrsGJGUoA Thank you again Mark for having me on SWU! : )

[@thuggwaffle8825]

You’re great.. I’ve had this thought for years now and didn’t know it had a name until now.. I agree with you but I also don’t judge anyone for choosing to reproduce.. If there is a specific name for this version please let me know! Appreciate you!

[@watkins7086]

Youre doing great work Amanda

[@Raziel433]

@@thuggwaffle8825 hands down, people are absolutely up for criticism if they know the risks and continue to reproduce regardless of the consequences. I understand situation, but situation and whether you can provide doesn't negate whether the life you create will suffer. At the very least when you create someone, you are committing them to death. And that alone is enough for humans (nay all sentient life) to consider not reproducing.

[@anniesmomfirst]

I have an honestly sincere question-- how do you "culturally mandate" an instinct? It's my understanding that an instinct is, literally by definition, an innate, or natural tendency towards something. Is "instinct" another word that has had the definition changed/updated?

[@thuggwaffle8825]

@@anniesmomfirst I don’t think the goal is to mandate.. I think it’s to have more people reconsider if they’re having children for selfish reasons or not

[@michellestonier2571]

I had never heard of this before. Whether you agree or not- she explained her ideas eloquently and it was a fascinating interview!

[@Taeodoestech]

r/antinatalism

[@BoneyRasputin]

She has severe Blue Balls....

[@mdstanton1813]

​@@Taeodoestechdamn right! ❤️✌️

[@vintagevirgo]

Absolutely fascinating, remarkable - she's incredible!

[@MattyLiam333]

Exactly. I went into this thinking this will sound crazy, and I won't last 5 mins. 2 mins into it, she had me mezmerized. I had not heard of this either, but hot damn, she nailed it. I think there really is no need for doing what nature will naturally do. Humans are soooooooo temporary. We aren't going to escape the same fate of every other species in the universe. We will inevitably go extinct. It's impossble math literally for us to escape those odds. No need to speed it up, but I sure can't argue with her.

[@justbe_kind]

I love that your channel is showing more people off of the skid row/drug addict stereotypical past. While their stories deserve a platform, there are so many others who do as well. This is so well done!

[@NickiTurano]

Great interview. While I enjoy all the skidrow residents, these philosophy/thought-provoking interviews are fantastic. Keep 'em' coming, please!

[@RameshRao-w5h]

I agree with you, and I enjoy the diversity and am grateful for you sharing mark.

[@louern123]

i wonder if Mark thinks she has mental health issues as many of the others he interviews 😶

[@Bartgoeschurch]

⁠🎉 The human condition is…

[@jonathaningram8157]

it doesn't provoke any thought in me. It's just a sad person.

[@DS-oopa]

​@@Utah.76what in the goddamn hell are you talking about? 🤣

[@BeachLover263]

This is my favorite guest of all time & I completely agree with her. I wish the interviewer would let her speak more without interrupting.

[@mypromisee]

“What is it about the winners that justifies the creation of all of this loss?” Such a valid question that I didn’t realize I was pondering all along. I am a therapist and social worker whose primary job is hearing about some of the worst experiences of people’s lives. I’ve had so many existential questions, but I try not to get lost in finding solutions for all of humanity bc I simply can’t focus on that. While I can only help one person or family at a time, the trajectory for that person could continue long after I’m gone... This was SUCH an interesting video bc it bravely attempts to solve a question many of us have. I love to hear other perspectives bc I don’t have a desire to limit myself to one way of thinking. Thanks for giving me more to think about! ❤ Let’s not forget the point of the channel isn’t to convince anyone of anything, just to see how vastly different other people on this earth can be. We can all agree to disagree respectfully while still appreciating a different perspective.

[@zigzagwilly]

Fellow therapist here- & same

[@lucioh1575]

@@zigzagwilly You guys get to see all the suffering hidden from the view of most.

[@reefshadow1]

Simplistic minds will answer this question with religion. Too fearful to allow for other possibilities, and never to allow for the answer that "It's not worth it."

[@operationsolo2764]

Why would the existence of loss justify the extinction of victory?

[@operationsolo2764]

Or why do inherent realities of the universe need justification?

[@cassandra9581]

Honestly I think her point of view stems from a lot of compassion, she's so against suffering that she wants to prevent it completely outright by not even allowing an environment for it to exist.

[@youtuba6711]

Well, you're not very nice @@ChiefHandler444

[@benisboop]

I think it comes more from self loathing. People like this wish they were never born themselves, and perhaps out of compassion, they wish to see the curse of being lifted from future generations.

[@happinesstan]

Protecting us from [perceived] suffering, is what weakens the individual.

[@MilahanPhilosophersCorner]

Life is a trial but worth living.

[@biglazerz]

Probably just a ton of neuroticism. I feel bad for her tbh.

[@mollyds4528]

For what it's worth: anybody out there who is unemployed but busy being a caregiver should check with their State Health and Human Services Dept to find out if they can become certified as a PCA (Personal Care Assistant) and then officially get PAID for every hour of caregiving work. Don't do it for free, unless you're independently wealthy!

[@thesimulation9651]

There are people who need care who cannot afford it

[@1976mcfarlane]

​@@thesimulation9651she means see if there is state funding to get paid. Sometimes there is.

[@bernicehopkins7747]

she may be getting paid, but does not consider it employment, considering her high level of education.

[@JenX1111]

No she lives with her mom calls her self a caregiver and is doom and gloom bring everybody into her level of deep depression.. somebody this intelligent should not be unemployed-activism for doom and gloom is A waste of her talents she could be a multi millionnaire with that brain and actually do something beneficial to the planet and truly help others besides shaming people from having kids 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@mollyds4528]

@@thesimulation9651 Whoops - I guess I failed to mention that the payments can come from a variety of sources, not the person being cared for. PCAs can be paid via a number of insurance plans. In my home State of MN: "Depending on your specific situation, you may receive direct payments from Medicaid or from the state as a family caregiver. As a PCA, you may receive payment directly from the state after submitting some forms, or you receive payment from a qualified home care agency. In the state of Minnesota, PCAs receive payment from a home care agency after their relative or friend has been approved for PCA services." www.dli.mn.gov/pca-cfss

[@Nubbby]

She is captivating to listen to. She makes great points. I don't know where I sit with this idea but damn... Please bring her back to talk more.

[@badmedgirl]

What are your concerns with the idea? I’d love to know ❤

[@Nubbby]

@@badmedgirl Good question, but first, tell me yours. I'm interested to know!

[@kashmirlamarch5377]

I love that she keeps saying, "I believe" and "this idea." She is not shoving it down your throat. She's stating what she believes very to the point and clear.

[@Parrotgirl-tattoo]

She clearly stated that she is an activist. So, she most definitely is shoving it down our throat. I have no issues with someone believing a different philosophy, but let the rest of us live our lives our way.

[@MusicJunkie37]

​@@Parrotgirl-tattoo Who is preventing you? Gosh you're exaggerating

[@PeanutButter-19]

Yeah, but look what she is saying, not how she's saying it.

[@cmwh8474]

@@MusicJunkie37we

[@gregoryv000]

exactly!

[@RasmusKarlJensen]

This is the angriest I’ve ever seen SWU comments get; even actual, literal violent felons have gotten more sympathy. Her words must’ve really touched a nerve.

[@Sweatyhorsecock]

Absolutely agree!

[@lucioh1575]

@@dannyg52 There is no evidence for any devil, and faith is the excuse people give to believe in something when they have no evidence.

[@MrJonFerraro]

Any kind of questioning of a mindless societal narrative will do that to people. We live in a world where the phrase "when are you going to have children" is way more often said than "are you going to have children" and even that is said way more often than "do you think it's a good idea to have children". This is the response that you get when someone actually puts a mirror up to society and request that it do some thinking about the consequences of the story they are just used to hearing. Notice.....most of the angry comments don't actually provide any kind of counterpoint to anything that she said. It's just your typical standard, copy-paste, ad hominem rhetoric. Kind of like children when they hear Santa Claus isn't real. No real substantive counterpoint from the child, just simply anger. I don't know of the felons videos that you are referring to, but I'm guessing that those videos don't ask John & Jane Q public to actually think about their behavior and actually CHANGE (which is something that the average person hates).

[@enhancedutility266]

No she's been on Reddit for too long and her life sucks that's why she says these things

[@eh86055]

i think for most people, it just comes down to disagreeing with the premises that either a) life is, on average, a negative experience or b) that it's unethical to impose the risk of a negative experience without consent. for a), i think most people enjoy life and don't regret being born. even if this isn't the case, the potential for it to become true is always present. antinatalists give more weight to the possibility of negative events, whereas natlaists will give more weight to the possibility of positive ones. (if you don't give weight to either, then you should by default accept the current trajectory, be it positive or negative) for b), i'm going to use an analogy. i'm horrible at these so it might not make sense, but i'll try anyway. if i handed you a package and said it either contained ten dollars or ten cockroaches, would you gift it to someone else or throw it in the trash? there's no right answer. if you dispose of it, you're an antinatalist and that's okay, but most people would want to take the risk.

[@PlayinWithGhosts]

Man, this interview and Gummo are my favorites. I think it's awesome that you are branching out into different interviews. Fascinating stuff.

[@MKatyOK]

It's liberating to even think about Antinatalism. I had never heard of it before today, but the ideas that Amanda talked about made me feel like I DO have some element of control in this seemingly out-of-control suffering-fest; I can choose to make kind compassionate choices regarding those of us who are already here, and at the same time NOT to bring more life (suffering) into the mix. Awesome - Thanks Amanda

[@lovethyneibor22736]

wow i feel like u enlightened me! lets discuss!!

[@littlebrowngirl4]

I've never heard of Antinatalism.. but in less that 27mins she's explained it so well and it kinda makes sense in a sad way!

[@lucioh1575]

Glad you liked the video!

[@beerwolf8518]

Why is it sad?

[@accord_aero_r]

The sadness comes in the brutal honesty in the fact that humans are the cause of every problem on this planet. Good or "bad," everything else that happens outside of direct human influence is nature. I don't know why people don't consider _human nature_ to be part of that nature when they talk about it, but it is what it is. The only real solution (shrinking our population, at the very least) goes against our innate drive to survive. I'm not an antinatalist, by the way. @@beerwolf8518

[@littlebrowngirl4]

@@beerwolf8518 just kinda sad how in 'saving the planet from our harm, and saving future people from harm' basically involves us all just dying out....pretty sad.

[@beerwolf8518]

@littlebrowngirl4 I might be able to see that. I'm not sure, though. I've had similar thoughts to antinatilism my whole life and I don't know if having a hypothetical planet without anyone on it is necessarily a sad thing. If we weren't here to experience a planet without people, then I don't think we'd be able to assess it as being sad. Of course these thoughts are hypothetical. There's good and bad in the human experience, so wouldn't getting rid of both just be neutral and practical and not sad?

[@morinyoung4533]

WOW! mark I watch your videos every day, and many others on KZbin and I’ve never ever commented, this one has struck me the most, Thanks Amanda for this, all my life I have felt just as you, yet I never knew about this community, always feeling utterly alone in these thoughts because whenever I bring them up to others they cannot understand, you’ve worded my feelings so clearly, and thanks so much mark for these interviews❤️

[@lucioh1575]

please please check out « stop having kids » it’s an activist group

[@melissas.236]

My thoughts word for word. I watch SWU daily. I enjoy these videos tremendously. This idea has been floating in my head and I have tried to explain as an animal lover and having a sister in DCF. I have found my calling.

[@lucioh1575]

See my comment @@melissas.236

[@relaxedyou4059]

Ridiculous people

[@nanetten6238]

Wow, this is fascinating and provides a lot of food for thought. It is so nice to hear someone intellectually explain his/her point of view, without screaming and being angry (which is what usually occurs nowadays). Thank you Amanda.

[@A3Kr0n]

Nobody mentioned Arthur Schopenhauer and his idea that the most moral thing a person can do is not have children.

[@lovethyneibor22736]

whats ur opinion on Schopenhauer?

[@adamant5906]

Schopenhauer was a great thinker. I'm grateful to him.

[@jacktinney]

It is a lousy opinion.

[@joejackson7601]

The Ultimate form of Love and Compassion is sparing the unborn this Horrible Existence ✅

[@jacktinney]

@@joejackson7601 if this existence is so horrible why are you here

[@Jaleningle]

You can't help but admire the amount of knowledge and research she accredits this philosophy with.

[@jackmiddleton2080]

I agree. It is a strange character trait. There are definitely brilliant people out there that cant accredit anything.

[@KasumovMedia]

No

[@seniorjohnl]

If it's true that there is a fine line between genius and insanity, she's definitely leaning more into one than the other.

[@premierecommunications2324]

she has no life so why not spend all of your time just reading and talking and not being productive and curing anyone who is. the most productive thing a person can do is to make life. thank GOD the great inventors and scientists of the past 2,000 years didn't believe this.

[@christophermd216]

Wtf are you people talking about she has no clue what she's talking about and what research. Her opinion lol that obviously has huge blind spots to say the least.

[@erinerinerinOOO]

I could not disagree with her more on almost every point she made, but I thoroughly enjoyed this interview. I would love to hear more philosophical interviews on this channel. We need more practice listening to people we disagree with.

[@tammic2016]

Love this comment! Our world needs more dialogue.

[@smellysock4260]

start a discussion. List some paints on which you disagree. It could be interesting, assuming th ecomments don't get deleted.

[@dbradford259]

You won't see any non-trolls believe in these things.

[@Miakatzisoverparty]

What are your counterarguments then?

[@smellysock4260]

It looks like it has become a social issue that attracts activists, but I don't know much about it. I was hoping somebody would start a discussion without imbeciles trying to disrupt it. I don't know anything about it other than what's in this video. @@Miakatzisoverparty

[@lovethyneibor22736]

“Not having children derives not from dislike, but from love too great to bring them into this world, too limited, too vain, too cruel.” ― Michel Onfray

[@ANTINATALIST_lewis]

Wassup

[@chrissyl3513]

Exactly

[@lovethyneibor22736]

hi @@chrissyl3513

[@lovethyneibor22736]

? @@ANTINATALIST_lewis

[@potter5647]

dear how is the "gift"? @@chrissyl3513

[@amybraun5924]

I have never heard Mark interrupt a guest this much

[@b.alibaba]

I was thinking the same….

[@heatherstewart5260]

it took away from the beauty of this channel. The name of the channel is akin to vulnerability and I don’t think he gave this guest the same opportunity to be vulnerable, without question, as he does other guest.

[@rhythmoflove2]

He does it ALL the time

[@morezombies9685]

This chick wants to interrupt the entirety of human existence so I think its fair.

[@tracygriffiths1960]

I had to watch this to find out what a antinatalist was. A very interesting interview and very thought provocing.

[@LawrenceAnton]

Antinatalism is a compassionate philosophy that wants to see no one come into existence to suffer harm. They never existed to want the life they would have had were they existed, and are not deprived by never coming into existence.

[@mollyswanner1607]

This whole idea is frightening. I think if she didn't live with this philosophy she might take her own life. We come here to live and have the human experience,,however that may be.

[@bernicehopkins7747]

But why live if living brings suffering?

[@bernicehopkins7747]

Not my philosophy, but I think what is an antinatalism thought.

[@mollyswanner1607]

@@bernicehopkins7747 because we chose to be here and have thus experience!!!

[@RadRedhead222]

@@bernicehopkins7747Because it also brings love, joy, happiness...

[@jennifers6560]

I was adopted into a horrible family and wished I was never born many times.

[@castirondude]

I did too as a child, but as an adult you have a lot of agency over your life and you don't have to put up with any of these things.

[@lovethyneibor22736]

whats that? @@brokenfractal

[@birdybirdy846]

It seems to be a very common feeling among adoptees.

[@jennifers6560]

@birdybirdy846 The problem is that as long as you own a home and have an income, they will literally let anyone have children with absolutely no regard for the education level or mental health status of the parents. My mother was a literal psyco with serious issues and she was a foster parent for like 30 years. She would only foster young children who couldn't talk yet or defend themselves against her. A baby even died in her care and all she got was a 6 month suspension.

[@oranges557]

​@castirondudethe thing is. The end product you become as an adult is mostly just genetics + upbringing in the first 7 yeara of your life. Most of the time people just run on the autopilot that was installed in them via upbringing and gentics. Most people will basically mever change and if you look closely at the people you know since childhood, youll see more and more characteristics in thel that havent changed at all since childhood. Free will is very limited.

[@rsmith4407]

I think anyone who feels triggered by what’s she’s saying hasn’t cared for someone for a long while, particularly an older person or a vulnerable person. It’s easy to be pro-natalist is you feel like your good and easy life will always be good and easy. It’s less easy when life is hard and painful or loved ones are suffering. It’s less easy when you can see the plastic, pollution, sickness, exploitation and consider what will happen as your children are adults.

[@pootuber]

Gotta really call out the specifics, like all the water damaged sick buildings and mold and the disease toting ticks and debilitating post viral illness and autoimmune disease and the govts enslaving and abusing and robbing people, and the foster system to prison labor pipeline, and low wages and unemployment while the rent keeps on going up, I'm sure the kids will cure all that once they cured their own cancer It's not easy, they are simply careless, self serving and willfully ignorant. Their children are their little retirement plans.

[@abcdaphne]

As a 31 year old woman, I struggled my whole life with guilt because I knew from a young age I never wanted to be pregnant or birth a child. I’ve always said there are already enough babies in the world without loving families, why would I create another?

[@Braeden2002]

Why feel guilt? It’s narcissistic for people to think they are so great they should reproduce when they live pointless lives

[@JooganJaeger]

You should go tell that to Africa, India, and China if you feel so strongly about overpopulation

[@skittlesmcgee]

@@Braeden2002 Because women get guilt heaped upon them when they decide they don't want to reproduce. Ask me how I know.

[@richXPT707]

What do u mean by that? China doesnt suffer from over population, actually quite the opposite...

[@JooganJaeger]

@@richXPT707 hahaha yeah sure, Chang.

[@PageantQueenPixie]

I’m childfree and a big reason for that is because I don’t want to give a child my generational trauma, my mental issues, or sign up them for suffering/having to survive in this society when they really didn’t sign up for any of it. I often feel like I didn’t sign up for the things I was born with/born into (even though I know from a spiritual sense we choose our families and lives). This was a really interesting conversation. I’m glad other people want to populate the Earth but it’s a no for me lol

[@stephybabs3233]

You were created for a reason and with a specific purpose. I pray that you find that purpose in your life.

[@discernment9279]

I totally understand you. In time you may change your mind and many people don’t have children for a similar reason and other reasons. I love your honesty Lil Sis

[@VinluvAntonHandesbukia]

Sounds like a skill issue really.

[@MultiLex101]

@@VinluvAntonHandesbukia exactly but at least she admits it, well implicitly that is. The problem is people who have kids without a second thought but have seldom pondered what it takes to be a good parent.

[@mintyblue3819]

We do not choose our families or what we are given, God does. I hope you will know him before it's too late ❤

[@ninamo3523]

"Why are we laying eggs in a broken nest?" -- wow. I'm impressed with her knowledge of so many philosophies. Great interview.

[@liamford1516]

no thats just negativity. you can make a piece of turd sound poetic if you tried hard enough. theres no broken nest, just her shitty outlook on the world. imagine thinking evolution is wrong and amanda is right

[@GetRightOrGetLeft7]

@@cnambdwas thinking the exact same thing.

[@haretyper4954]

This is baffling to me when all I hear from her is grossly misinformed and misguided uneducated views from an incel basement nerd who knows nothing of human connection because she spent decades on the internet instead of seeing the beauty of living life.

[@ganemrahman3424]

@@cnambd If you're a man, you don't have eggs

[@apolloniusbeitsman5444]

​@@cnambdMany people think their nest isn't broken while it is. Most parents are unfit for the the job.

[@RealMexFoodShouldntGiveUDrrhea]

Interesting. I’ve never heard of this. I vowed to never have children at 10, and I’m 35 still without kids. I don’t see the point for myself. But this woman pushes it further. Very interesting interview

[@Whocares158]

Embrace Antinatalistsm. To spear children from Suffering, Pain and Death.

[@sjp4u338]

@user-tn6ec1ud8mhow did you know so early on that you wanted no children?

[@debbiemohekey1509]

@user-tn6ec1ud8m One of my daughters pretty much said the same thing. Her little sister decided to have her share as well as her own. Didn't help the environment,or mankind, or the possibility of a less-than-perfect human being born who might end up suffering because of some surprise medical condition. Only refrain from having kids if you don't want to be a parent, cos someone will make up for your shortfall, especially with abortion laws changed.

[@graciesmom62]

I learn something each time I watch an episode. This “anti natalism” is a totally new concept to me. Thanks for the education, Mark and Amanda !

[@jonathaningram8157]

She is basically saying she doesn't want you to exist and you are ok with that ? Do you consider your life so little ?

[@adelMN2]

@@jonathaningram8157 you clearly don't understand the point, so i invite you to try harder when arguing against antinatalist because saying that she doesn't want you to exist is disregarding the argument and therefore dishonest.

[@richardsmall5265]

@@jonathaningram8157 that’s not what she’s saying at all. Did you watch the video?

[@tracey0820]

@@jonathaningram8157she’s not saying she wants ppl to pass away. Listen

[@fufurabumbacka]

​​@@jonathaningram8157I dont want you to exist, as you are kind a stupid.

[@mothmustardseed1858]

More philosophers as well versed as amanda, please! This was an intellectual treat- I love being exposed to new worldviews

[@natalidolll]

Yeah as Nietzsche was crazy too...

[@heathersutherland8225]

Totally agree with a lot of things she has expressed. My husband and I are childfree. We don’t believe there is a necessity for us as couple to create our own offspring. We don’t follow the need to procreate. There is already enough suffering in the world.

[@AsturiasCeltic]

Procreating in humans seems to be all in the ego and think it's brings them everlasting life in procreating and keeping their human-made surnames to carry on. I am child-free also.

[@SalMcc20]

Same!

[@candaceewell9582]

Sure we should not try to change our ways….let’s just all die! Sounds normal 🤨

[@niaglasgow2807]

@@candaceewell9582 we’re all gonna die anyway (duh). And is there a way to magically fix all of humanity’s issues within 9 months?

[@jamieluce5960]

As a society we aren't caring for the human life that already exists. I do wonder why we are compelled to create more.

[@jennifergreen6109]

exactly

[@grapesodabanked]

Speak for yourself, buddy.

[@classygentlemangaming8400]

so humanity doesn't go extinct

[@robertrainford6754]

Humans haven’t evolved past there primitive reproductive instincts.

[@LucyMorningstar999]

Nobody is "compelled" to do anything. It is a personal choice. If you want kids great, of you don't great. Live and let live. It's really that simple.

[@meagon1020]

What an intellectual being. I enjoyed listening to Amanda and learning about anti natalism. Never knew there was a formal name to this.

[@adamant5906]

Read Schopenhauer, Epicurus, Zapffe for more information on the history of antinatalist thought.

[@zigzagwilly]

Ditto

[@Chris-Ian]

​@@adamant5906Also Julio Cabrera, David Benatar, Thomas Ligotti

[@adamant5906]

@@Chris-Ian I've read Conspiracy Against the Human Race several times. Excellent book. I'm also familiar with Benatar.

[@Chris-Ian]

@@adamant5906 I'm sure you are, I was just helping you with the list of authors that the op should read

[@careya]

I’ve never heard of this before. Fascinating guest and I loved her non-combative presence.

[@quentinkumba6746]

Is it really non-combative or it a steel fist in a kid glove. At the end of the day she wants everything of value to be done away with and that includes you, your family, your friends, even your pet. What is more she likes her own life enough, not to end it, but she believes that all other life has only negative value, and that your assessment of your own life on your own value is worthless, because no matter how much you think you want to live, her opinion, is it on balance you’d be better off dead. And your opinion and your experience is meaningless to her. From a psychological point of view (and I am a psychotherapist). She is full of self hatred and because she is mainly unaware of it she is projecting it out onto everybody else, and her conclusion is that all life must end. She is one messed-up gal!

[@Montezuma0]

@@quentinkumba6746You’re completely wrong. She’s not some psychopath that wants other people to die. She said this explicitly. Her goal is to convince people to not procreate. You need to develop some better critical thinking skills and listen non-judge mentally instead of assuming the worst of people.

[@quentinkumba6746]

@@Montezuma0 - hey chicken, I think you’ve got me mixed up with someone else, I never said that she was a psychopath and I don’t think she is one, I think she’s a misanthrope, that is she hates people, starting with herself, that is not psychopathy and I’m not saying it is, psychopaths do not hate themselves on the contrary they are very often highly narcissistic. And also it’s a little naive to think because someone says they are not full of hatred but wants to end all life that they are telling the truth.

[@Montezuma0]

@@quentinkumba6746 Ok fine, but your initial comment saying that she thinks life only has negative value is incorrect. Antinatalism doesn’t reject the idea that life can also be great, they just say that overall the suffering outweighs the good. A key component of antinatalism is also that not procreating is better than procreating because not experiencing suffering is better even if it means not experiencing joy as well. It’s a pretty solid argument. Maybe she does hate life, but that doesn’t make antinatalism less attractive.

[@quentinkumba6746]

@@Montezuma0 - you are wrong about the basis of antinatalism, you are close but you have not quite understood it. You need to look up Benetar’s asymmetry argument. It is not about the balance of good and bad in life at all, it’s about this: 1. the presence of pain is bad; 2. the presence of pleasure is good; however 3. the absence of pain is good, even if that good is not enjoyed by anyone; 4. the absence of pleasure is not bad unless there is somebody for whom this absence is a deprivation The first of many problems with this argument is it’s logical conclusion that a life that would be 99.9999999% pleasure and 0.0000001% pain is a life that is still not worth living. That seems like a very extreme position and hardly credible. It also boils the whole of the future of life in the universe down to an asymmetrical cost-benefit analysis of pleasure and pain, where all that matters is pain, but for most people life is about a lot lot more than that. It seems extremely arrogant for anyone to assume that from their little planet in the middle of nowhere after being a toy reviewer on KZbin they have the wisdom to know to stop the next few billion years of evolution and know that they have done the right thing. Let them have spaceships and they will travel the universe destroying any planets that look like they may ever develop life. What a legacy to be proud of! For those who see life in such a reductionist and nihilistic way though, I can imagine that it can become pretty miserable. However it is certainly the case that antinatalists, despite their misery, all want to ensure that they are not the ones who miss out on life. That’s just for the unmade, you know, the ones with no voice, who without consent the antinatalists claim to speak for. It is purely and simply a projection of unconscious self-hatred onto the rest of life, it’s moderated just enough not to have their own lives destroyed by it (they fall short of killing the living), but it is the same self-hatred that drives school shooters and incels to run amock, just with less commitment and courage. Finally it’s atheism and materialism gone mad. It’s throwing religion out but throwing the baby out with the bath water. It’s what Nietzsche was warning us about when he spoke about the death of God it’s what Carl Jung was warning is about when he spoke of man’s need to embrace the feminine and have a myth to live by. This is the opposite - despising the feminine, despising the body, leading a sterile and meaningless life. Elevating simplistic all or nothing thinking and giving it the power of a God, to destroy the world. All these people care about is pleasure and pain. What about love? What about connection with others? What about growth and transcendence or at least transformation. All of these things, that elevate us and make life worth living are worthless garbage to these people. There is something deeply sick and perverse about this philosophy. I am an atheist from a long line of atheists and I don’t like to use the word evil, but this comes close to deserving that name. They are one small, obvious logical step away from wanting to kill everybody and end all life on the planet. Their philosophy inevitably leads to that conclusion, to save the unborn those that would give birth must die. Give them AI and bio-weapons and how long do you think we would last? To properly understand their philosophies danger imagine what might happen if they had the levers of power. It would not be pretty. It would be a holocaust like the world has never imagined. These people are not your friends, they are in fact like the Cenobytes, enticing you with a pretty puzzle whilst they lead you through the doors of hell.

[@TarotLadyLissa]

As someone who suffers from a chronic pain disorder (CRPS) which causes me 24/7 pain, I can see her point of view very clearly. I deal with suicidal ideation, depression, anxiety and chronic insomnia. All stemming from my CRPS. I do blame my parents sometimes for bringing me into this world. Im 40 now, and as my pain progresses I want doctor assisted euthanasia.

[@lovethyneibor22736]

Can we talk more about this philosophy?

[@TarotLadyLissa]

@@lovethyneibor22736 Antinatalism or Euthanasia?

[@lovethyneibor22736]

Both, and not only those two. It seems like "society" is deliberately trying to force people not discuss these types of topics with each other and tbh i don't really understand true reasons behind that, seems like they are trying to make us live certain way and impose things on us @@TarotLadyLissa

[@jessicaxhumari4483]

I’m so sorry to hear that. I never usually comment on KZbin but I didn’t see anyone responding yet. So I just wanted to say, I’m sorry you’ve been dealt these cards in life and it may seem like there’s not much to look forward to being in such a difficult position. However, you still have the possibility to make something meaningful come from it. I noticed you have a channel where you talk about your experiences going through crps. Perhaps you can honor the pain you’ve gone through and the person you are today and make something of it by helping others going through the same thing. Also, it depends how open you are to this but as psychedelics are being researched more and more, they’re finding it has a profound ability to help people find bliss in even in extreme pain and near death such as cancer patients. These effects are also possible with advanced meditation. This should be done in a controlled setting but I urge you to research more and try something before giving up. You are young but it is always possible to have a life worth living. I hope you find peace. Sending love

[@AuroraMeansDawn27]

Hugs and love to you hun.

[@missymaier8954]

I’ve had thoughts along these lines for years. I didn’t know there was a term for it. Thank you.

[@potter5647]

do you believe that life is a "gift"?

[@potter5647]

... of krap

[@Whocares158]

Welcome. 😊🩷🩵

[@FeistyMimi024]

One of your MOST interesting interviews!! Would like to see more on this topic.

[@lovethyneibor22736]

can i ask you a question??

[@r0guedoll]

I’m so grateful I got to hear Amanda’s perspective; she speaks very clearly and respectfully. I have shared similar thoughts since I was very young and still do. I experience mixed feelings when I hear someone is expecting or has given birth because I can see both the beauty and tragedy of life. I prefer to focus my efforts on encouraging people to make sure they provide their children with the best lives they possibly can; emotionally, financially, and mentally. When I was a kid, I asked my parents if I could have a younger sibling and after some time my little brother was born! Anytime I see him sad, sick, or in any sort of pain I can’t help but think he wouldn’t have to be experiencing that if we didn’t bring him here to begin with It’s a very bitter-sweet reality we have to deal with

[@beerwolf8518]

It's good to see more people comment on their antinatalist belief. I had formed this belief as a kid and have heard only the most vitriolic ridicule from family and friends. It's comforting to know there are others that understand what it is I'm thinking here.

[@Kuato]

Not having kids has more objective reasoning to it. Having kids is ONLY subjective. Subjective = Selfish

[@lovethyneibor22736]

can i ask you a question?????????

[@nazberg445]

Bearing a child and giving birth takes a lot of effort lol, hardly selfish

[@KatrinaDancer]

​@@nazberg445 But nobody has to do that so it is selfish in the sense that the one doing it has all the power to make that decision. All the pros and cons are weighed by them. The one being birthed had no choice.

[@nazberg445]

@@KatrinaDancer You do in fact have to put a lot of effort in, in order to properly bear a child. You must put alcohol and drugs off, and physically care for your womb for circa nine months in order to bear a child - and at the end of it, you must go through excruciating pain in the process of labour. What kind of 'selfish' act carries with it nine months of care, and hours/days of agony?

[@zyyl1949]

The genes are selfish, a human is just the vehicle for the genes to replicate, the same as any living organism

[@lovethyneibor22736]

“To bear children into this world is like carrying wood to a burning house.” ― Peter Wessel Zapffe

[@CosmosArchipelago]

Bullshit.

[@debhurd8898]

Yes.

[@SixSonn]

He could have never had that thought if he weren't born nor could have you left this comment of his quote. Do you not see the irony in this entire belief?

[@redhouse3994]

@@SixSonn What's your point? Are you saying suffering is justified because we get to quote things?

[@taliaspencer9093]

The other side of suffering is love & joy. Through the hells i have survived, i have said thank you to the universe for all of them because they have given me a stronger ability to love. They have put me in a place to look into the eyes of others & share that love. Love makes suffering worthwhile.

[@missytheiss266]

She is very articulate. I have never considered this.

[@lovethyneibor22736]

what exactly?

[@amethystamanda]

This is so interesting, I’ve never heard of this philosophy before. I don’t think I would go so far as to tell someone who wants a child that they shouldn’t have one, but for me personally I’ve always had a hard time with existence, I’ve had panic attacks and existential dread for my whole life, and I can’t see myself bringing children into this world because of that.

[@wildlifegardenssydney7492]

Thank you for your interview Amanda. Your thoughts and views were so calmly, concisely and well articulated. I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts, and the details of your thought processes; indeed I was was enriched by them.

[@marthajohnston4334]

As someone who's experienced excruciating suffering, I would agree with Schopenhauer that the happiness and pleasure of someone else or a collective does not justify the excruciating suffering of any undeserved. I am certain that there is suffering so extreme that the idea of there being a self-justifying antithesis to this serves as being a wholly self-deceptive and self-deceiving presupposition.

[@lovethyneibor22736]

wow i feel like u enlightened me! lets discuss!

[@marthajohnston4334]

@lovethyneibor22736 sure. What do you want to discuss?

[@argoshikan]

Thomas Ligotti for the win. The only way to truly end human suffering is to stop having humans to experience suffering.

[@lovethyneibor22736]

hi

[@HenningHitzDingerz77]

THIS is the most fascinating interview I've seen you do, Mark! I actually stopped following on FB because, although you are a fantastic interviewer, there's only so much addiction and sex work and sadness I, personally, can take. Amanda's interview popped up on my Tiktok, and I saw several clips on the tiktoks you posted and they brought me here! I would love more interviews with these types of interviewees!

[@joshklaver47]

Many sex workers genuinely enjoy their job. It's a mistake to think that they're all exploited or miserable. People have every right to use their own bodies to make a living.

[@brijmsn]

@@joshklaver47 Have you used a sex worker?

[@joshklaver47]

@@brijmsn You don't use a sex worker. You pay them in exchange for their services, same as any other contractor. No different from seeing a doctor or therapist.

[@brijmsn]

@@joshklaver47 If you are so wealthy that what they are charging is chump change to you, I would argue, yes, you are "using" them. You pay them to let you do whatever you want to them essentially. Sure they may have some limits but for the most part, especially if its a woman, she just wants to survive the encounter so she will be as agreeable as possible. Paying a sex worker, especially a female sex worker is exploitation because you know she is in a compromising situation, she might have kids to feed, she is being used like a rag doll by YOU.

[@joshklaver47]

@@brijmsn Wow, I don't know how you fit so much ignorance in one comment. Clearly your only knowledge of sex workers is the propaganda spread by conservatives and religious groups. Most sex workers enjoy their work, and choose to do it instead of other jobs. They aren't being used or exploited, and claiming they are is just condescending. They're adults, doing what they want with their own bodies, and generating income at the same time. There is nothing wrong with that. Save your religious crap for people who care. Sex work is a totally legitimate occupation.

[@EricGarringer]

A fascinating, well-spoken and knowledgeable interviewee. I love this channel because it allows us to hear and appreciated these incredible stories even if we don’t personally adhere to the same viewpoints. Mark, you’re a treasure to the world.

[@bluelove33]

I relate to parts of the concept. Especially feeling different from everyone else as a kid. I remember my grandmother giving me a handmade quilt as a small child and one of my older sister’s friends saying “now you can pass it in to your kids when you’re older”. 😳 The impending doom I felt as a small child thinking I HAD to have kids was so heavy! I actually cried and ran to my mother to confirm it and thank goodness she said I didn’t have to have kids if I didn’t want to. WHEW! 😅 Throughout my life, it never made sense to procreate and I always looked at it as there are already so many unloved & uncared-for kids. If I really want one, I could save one of them. Never happened, but I’m 50 now & happily kid-free! 😂

[@austinr.5989]

You’re a gem 💎

[@Boho_Gypsy]

Same! I was that little girl too. I grew up and became a childfree environmentalist. But in my 40s I decided to adopt a 6 year old who is my world now! There are so many children already here that need homes! ❤

[@leklekjasmine416]

Really cool interview! I’ve always felt that life is full of suffering from birth til death and I’m glad that there’s a word for those who feel that way

[@lovethyneibor22736]

How are you brother?

[@sariahlace5944]

👍👍

[@allisonnicole7311]

It’s really nice to see a happy intellectual for a change. It was nice to feel light watching your channel instead of feeling heavy like usual - keep it up!

[@lavinjustesen9863]

Thank you so very much, Amanda and this channel for sharing this perspective. Incredibly well articulated and thought provoking. I cannot thank you for that enough!

[@HND505]

As a fellow long-time antinatalist here, I am beyond ecstatic to see someone of like-mind speak so articulately and intelligently on the most important topic. It blows my mind daily in the world to see how few people get it. Thank you Amanda!

[@laurak2971]

Wow, shocked and glad to see Amanda up here on mainstream internet. Not a lot of people know about Antinatalism and a lot of us find it difficult to talk about because the backlash from people around you is substantial. I've been Antinatalist for about 5 years and people look at me like I've got 2 heads for saying I think it's morally wrong to have children.

[@sisypheanexistence8955]

I've literally never dared to say it IRL in the 10 years I've known about (and agreed with) AN. 😧 but yeah that's the reaction I'd expect

[@watkins7086]

Ive found people to be more open to it in real life than I would have guessed

[@lisasafiullah8774]

Makes sense. My perspective was there were already enough kids existing who needed parents. Why bring more into the world. I don't have kids myself didn't want the responsibility of potentially messing some one up or passing on Crohns disease which I have.

[@TrollHunterxXx]

Just because you don’t want kids … doesn’t mean it’s morally wrong for people to have children 😂. So dumb

[@jansmitowiczauthor78]

​@@TrollHunterxXxIs that all you got from this-- simple *personal desire*? The inherently unethical nature of breeding in a country filled with orphans is quite obvious-- not to mention, maybe listen to the thing first before criticizing it?

[@blueninja115]

You learn something new with every SWU video. I'd argue that SWB is the best channel youtube has seen in a long time. Mark gets them rolling, and they take it the rest of the way. Open, low pressure, and raw.

[@austinr.5989]

Too bad YT doesn’t agree with you and actually completely deleted Amanda’s original antinatalist channel, with hundreds of videos..

[@amyg8761]

I love listening to smart, well spoken people like this whether I have the same views or not. Super interesting! Also, any mother will tell you we've all worried about bringing children into the world with all the suffering they may endure throughout their lives. I just never let myself get this deep about it. I'll never forget this quote I heard a few years ago " life IS fair because it's unfair for everyone" this interview made me think of that.

[@benwilkonski8635]

do you think that life is unfair to everyone equally?

[@shanbraz6011]

Mmm that quote is rather tone deaf tbh. You’d have to be very far removed from the issues folks face in this country or globally to truly be able to hold to that statement without feeling a bit uncomfortable.

[@lifeisoverrated96]

Life is unfair... I'll force someone into that situation... Makes sense smh

[@skateranddancer]

So you acknowledge your desire for the personal emotional benefits of being a parent outweigh the concern you had. You are saying you recognize the truth in antinatalism, but found it too painful to truly dig into your own feelings about it so you hushed it away to have babies. This is exactly the problem. What kind of parent would that person be? Not one I would want a child to have tbh.

[@bryan123483]

​​@@skateranddancerAgreed. I think there's a lot of people that feel that way. They know that bringing a life into this world is adding to the violence, racism, sexism, bloated population etc etc. If it's them having a kid those truths don't apply. The potential love they'll feel for a child allows them to willfully ignore those truths. It's easy to think that one person's impact on the world is too small to matter compared to the human population. The old "do what I say not what I do" saying".

[@latinaluisa]

My identity as a younger women was to marry and have a family. There was a lot of pressure from society, family, and some of it was self imposed. I spent so much time crying, suffering, trying to fulfill something that couldn't happen. It was so amazing to her her speak about this in a non judge mental way. Thanks so much for the interview ❤

[@Sabrina-LosAngeles]

Fascinating interview! It is amazing to learn how people think, what drives them and how they look at things without judgement. The intellect is a powerful thing ~

[@TheScotian82]

its also very dangerous which is why "with great power..."

[@antmanv05]

We all judge. There's nothing wrong with judging. It's an important thing to judge, in fact. Otherwise how would you decerm anything? When you make a decision, you're judging. It's normal and imperative to judge.

[@Sabrina-LosAngeles]

@@TheScotian82 100pct

[@Sabrina-LosAngeles]

@@antmanv05 agree, but in my view there is a difference between judging for yourself vs passing judgement on somebody else without being curious what led them to have certain view points. I personally may or may not agree with it but I don't judge them how they think.

[@leneo1731]

@montecarlo I'm all about freedom of speech. Being who you are no matter what. For instance I've been trying to argue with all the people who feel the need to point out that Rebecca is a man. So many people in here have a problem with Rebecca being referred to as she, her and so on. I've tried to ask them why it even bother them so much but I don't really get an answer. In mu head it's as easy as if someone calls them self Rebecca and wants to be called she, I do that. It's just as easy as calling them he. It doesn't matter if the person has beard and looks like the most masculine person. If they see themselves as a she, fine by me. However. There are certain things and views I have a hard time to accept. One example is Sweden at the moment. There's a lot of burning of The Book of Allah. (I hope that's the correct name in English. If not, I very much apologise to everyone.) As I said I'm all about freedom of speech. I just don't see what burning The Book of Allah, the Bible, or a country's flag has to do with freedom of speech. When you take something that's so important to so many people and you violate that thing, that's just not okay. I judge them because I feel like they do this ha like that for one reason alone and that's to provoke. And I don't like that. I don't sympathise with that kind of provocation. I used to think it was fine to use the t-shirt Sid Vicious used to wear with the huge swastika symbol on it. In all reality the swastika is just an old agent symbol for the sun or something. So I didn't see the problem. Hitler took some old symbol and made his own meaning to it. We all know it ment something else before. So what's the big deal? The big deal as I understood after a while is that thousands and thousands of people lived through the hell of World War II where countries were occupied by the Germans. Those countries flags were taken down during the war. They were replace by Hitler's swastika flags. All important building had those flag on them and the symbol was used to a lot of things. So obviously it's horrible for the people who lived during 5 years of war and saw that symbol everywhere. Can yiu imagine going through such an horrible thing as war and then meeting a person wearing a t-shirt with the same symbol which is representative of the horrors Hitler stood for? So in my opinion yiu just can't go through life totally without judgement of people. It's not a good thing if you do that in my opinion. Some people need to be judged because their thoughts are so dangerous is can actually hurt lots of people. Like people who become radicalised. It's dangerous. They need to new judged. But then again we need to show understanding because we need to try and not push them even further away then they are. This is such an incredibly difficult and enormous topic it's almost impossible to know what's right.

[@tangie06_33]

I was SO prepared to be mad about this because I completely disagree with antinatalism on every level but I'm not mad. Amanda represents her beliefs very well. She's affable, well spoken and approachable. So many people are so confrontational especially if their beliefs go against the grain. It's nice to see someone so calm and reasonable.

[@ikimus]

So you like the suffering and struggles that goes on in this life?

[@JoeyPerp]

@@ikimus Through suffering and struggles, we can find meaning. It's not that suffering and struggling is ideal or even a good thing, it's what you make of it that matters.

[@Sarahizahhsum]

​@@JoeyPerpBefore we were born, we had no need for pleasure.

[@carolynharmon7074]

All anyone should do is share their belief's, you can't or should not Bullie someone to believe what they believe.

[@JoeyPerp]

@@Sarahizahhsum and when we die we won't have any need for it either. Make the most of it while you can.

[@KaylaBuhdayla]

What an incredibly interesting video. I’ve felt strong feelings when it comes to my disappointment in mankind and how we’re having children in such a time of turmoil. I never thought I would be SO Proud to be a 90’s kid. I’ve lived the before and after. I yearn for the past. It wasn’t all good, but it was MUCH more secure and easy going. She’s so intelligent and informative. I love my 15 year old. I definitely don’t want to be a teenager right now. I see people having kids and I cringe. Life as a good parent is SO Difficult when it comes to rearing a faithful, strong, self-loving, good person. WAY too much extra input. Sorry for my rant. Must have needed to get that out.

[@brijmsn]

You cringe at people having kids when you did the same thing?

[@kyliemack1131]

Ive felt this way for a long time but never had a name to put to it.... very interesting and validating to hear it described so eloquently. Thank you for this.

[@francojvelasquez]

Suffering is wasted on humans. So few learn or grow from it. Most just manufacture suffering for others. I'm sure Amanda speaks from a deep awareness of such a reality.

[@bachiak1]

Ppl spend their entire lives avoiding pain, be it physical or emotional. The idea that they would acknowledge this is counter-intuitive as they will suffer with this knowledge. So they carry on with their simplistic lives and bring about more ppl to do the same, and worse, they are proud of this, and the more you test them on it they become weirdly vehemently proud of this. You start to see the emergence of the pain behind their desperately designed life, the anger starts to emerge, that very thinly, tightly woven safety cocoon they have worked so hard to maintain - their silly jobs, their walks in the park, their tv shows, their hill walks, their contrived marriages and relationships, their mindless chitchat and bad humour, all of it is a thin veneer to the reality. Test their lives and they would gladly put you in a coffin. Its either them or you, whether they know it or not.

[@olivialillegard2540]

oh wow this gave me chills

[@miaa7097]

​@@bachiak1deep

[@thuggwaffle8825]

This one hit me because I have had this feeling for years now and didn’t know it even had a name.. I thought I was alone with this feeling and concept. I also know that this idea is coming from my lense and is not to be applied to anyone else’s.. I just see the world and what it’s becoming and genuinely see more suffering and pain around me than true happiness.. She mentioned that she knows this will never take hold on society and that it will go unlistened to by most.. And that’s just how I feel. I believe this theory but also know it’s probably a waste of time to preach it

[@Xuevium]

It is a waste.. period. Don't let these jaded idiots who Hate themselves and Hate thier Own life influence Yours.

[@kierraburrows8072]

If that's what you truly believe then have at it but you don't need to preach anything to me!

[@thuggwaffle8825]

@@Xuevium I really don’t think it comes from a place of hate at all.. Through my lens it comes more from a place of compassion.. If I choose to have a kid there is no way to guarantee they will live a happy life.. We’ve gone the wrong way as a society the last 30 or 40 years especially in North America.. Social media is having a devastating affect on the youth and somehow certain people aren’t recognizing that.. Parents are failing at a ridiculous rate nowdays.. I genuinely feel there are more bad people than good and I understand that’s anecdotal.. But it is my choice to not reproduce and I don’t judge anyone for not doing the same

[@thuggwaffle8825]

@@kierraburrows8072 I’m not sure if you didn’t read the entirety of my comment of what but I explicitly said it’s a waste of time to preach it lol

[@StephieGsrEvolution]

​@@thuggwaffle8825it's not a waste. It's thought provoking and many will at least hear her and give it some thought.

[@Mamacita-6]

As a child I recall being so angry for being born without my permission.

[@lucioh1575]

Anger often comes from a feeling of injustice.

[@susanw489]

Do you still feel angry today?

[@shadowsinmymind9]

😂

[@pamelaliegh]

I’m still pissed my bio Mom was too much of a coward to get an abortion. The world does not need more children , there are too many to protect adequately.

[@Lalaafastroli]

@@lucioh1575 Actually…no. Anger simply does not emerge from injustice. Trying to sound deep and intelligent is really cringe. It’s perfectly normal feel angry at the thought of being born.

[@iota4612]

This is incredible. And from what I'm perceiving, the most at peace person interviewed on this channel. Much love to Amanda

[@s0lid_sno0ks]

This person is in a constant state of misery and self loathing.

[@thenameless1896]

Loved this interview so much! Haven't seen anyone in many years explaining their philosophy as eloquently as her. Reminds me a lot of when I was in school and read about Schopenhauer; it's good to see that these philosophies are not forgotten and that there's people still able to properly exercise them

[@SecretSquirrelDunDun]

My first pregnancy was ectopic and I almost died. My next two pregnancies were lost because my blood is too thick (antiphospholipid syndrome) and resulted in pulmonary embolism- blood clots in both lungs and I almost died again. My heart was so heavy. I think some of us are programmed with chemical responses and instincts to procreate, while others are not. I had someone I love present this idea and while I didn't completely agree, I still welcomed and respected their views. That's love, underlying. The root of what I took from it was their attempt at love. That friend has since left this world and passed away, but I love them even more for trying to comfort me. We can love and respect each other. Take a deep breath...

[@amber76OH]

This is, though quite sad, a very beautiful sentiment. 🖤

[@TheScotian82]

thats really sad and I wish you well in the future, you deserve it.

[@queball685]

​@merrynothing3204 if you have health issues that will get passed down to your children and cause them to live a life of misery then i can understand that. But if you're a completely healthy adult that has the means to provide for a child i don't think it's selfish to have children. If anything, i could even make the opposite argument that it is selfish NOT to have kids. Every individual has the power to reduce suffering in the world. If you truly want to reduce suffering in the world, the best thing you can do is dedicate your life to making the world a better place, and to have kids and raise them in the best possible way and instill values in them that their duty in this planet is to lessen the suffering around them. Off course it's not that simple and things can go wrong, but it's still the best course of action as humans are not going to die out any time soon.

[@the_courtneyb]

I agree. Sorry you went through that. I lost 4 pregnancies, and had to find a way to understand “why me.”

[@calliecollins7702]

I have APLS too. Nine pregnancies, four living children. I got there with medical help and am now a foster parent. There are many paths. I hope you find peace.

[@honeythunder]

Mark - this is a great interview. I’d love for a follow up - I have so many questions. I find this concept fascinating. Thank you both!

[@inkling1788]

FOLLOW-UP with a SEQUEL, please---more AMANDA!! She is a modern-day warrior and HER mind is definitely NOT for rent to any God or Government!!!

[@veganatheistandmore]

I love my children too much to have them. Thanks for having Amanda on the show!

[@oturan22]

I had similar thoughts, but from a Christian perspective. At an early age, around 8 or so, I was convinced hell was a real place and through behavior a real consequence, I was angry with my parents for having a child knowing that eternal suffering was a real possibility. I held on to that anger for years

[@sebp9882]

Well at least as a Christian you can lead a life that will avoid this eternal suffering

[@isobel64]

but as a Christian you know how to avoid that

[@grapesodabanked]

Well, that's only a convincing argument if you believe that eternal suffering in hell outweighs eternal joy in heaven. They gave you an equal chance at both.

[@cyrusthe0ther795]

@@grapesodabanked how is it equal if different people have different desires, and the proclivities for enjoyement in things are high in sinful activity

[@oranges557]

​@@sebp9882no he wont because its all fake

[@TaylorBKnits]

She is so well-spoken and I love how well she handles Mark constantly interrupting her 😅

[@kevinholcomb292]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@christinag91686]

Facts! That was really annoying. I always enjoyed these interviews… this one made me truly dislike Mark.

[@elliotw3904]

He wasn’t that bad 😂

[@judysteadman799]

Amanda has certainly enlightened us . Especially when many of Mark's interviews are suffering and see no hope from childhood abuse and trauma 😢😢😢

[@surfergirl2943]

Absolutely. Super ironic !

[@melaniep8377]

People refuse to entertain the thought that their child could end up on skid row just like any of the people Mark interviews. They don't want to have to feel guilt, and that's why this philosophy makes them so angry.

[@osteogenesisdev5268]

Judging from some of the comments, it seems more that people so intensely disagreed that Mark had to delete their comments, makes the comment section seem a lot more in agreement than it likely really is. Part of the reason it seems that way as well is that I had a few comments left under different comment threads that seem to be gone as well now. So it is a bit of a manufactured/curated agreement.

[@tunnelamende6214]

My current read: "Better Never To Have Been" by David Benatar, an antinatalist book. Highly recommended!

[@leiapeison]

I can’t wait to read it!

[@Darniros]

I did not expect to see her on this channel! Fantastic interview. She is one of the people who have inspired me to have a vasectomy. Thank you

[@lovethyneibor22736]

i wanna learn more about this philosophy

[@DebyNieto-kq2ci]

I agree with a lot of what she says. All of the child abuse, animal abuse, elderly abuse, hate, rape, murder, prejudice, etc., that is quickly and progressively growing worse by the day, and for what ? Because of bodies filled with hate, insecurities, jealousy, mental derangement. We have created our own non caring world that we are trashing, abusing and murdering everyday.

[@andrethevegan_]

well don't procreate

[@themoonsharksquirrel8937]

And yet the world is safer than it ever was. Freaking internet makes us think we're in constant danger ✌️

[@therivergiveth]

What evidence do you have that those things are getting worse? You might try cracking a history book.

[@TheScotian82]

😭😭😭 That is so outstandingly shortsighted. "created our own non-caring world" Open your eyes. "We"(some of us) have created all varieties of beauty and actual GOOD in this world. You choose to only look at the negatives...I thought I was a pessimist.

[@TheScotian82]

​@@therivergivethObjectively better in nearly every way and yet..😬

[@Sippy2118]

“What are the winners achieving?”-- great question.

[@markj5054]

She's so correct, its so ironic that this channel is about broken people and people suffering so badly who would absolutely love a peaceful exist to this shit show of an existence but these poor people are just for the public entertainment and forced to suffer for longer so people can "learn" something from them. To not create another life in the first place would absolutely prevent this but people just shit out kids even if they are in circumstance's that will guarantee a future suffering and future corpse. This life is an imposition and everybody should have the bloody right to peacefully and gracefully exit this shit show if they bloody wish.

[@scvman992000]

Yep

[@lovethyneibor22736]

Better words can't be said!

[@jacktinney]

even if she is correct, the entire philosophy is doomed to failure because all the antinatalists will not have kids and make themselves extinct. The more it spreads, the more it extinguishes itself.

[@PleaseDoNotLOL]

Amanda! So glad to see you on here! I'm an efilist living in Chicago as a caregiver too.

[@combinero.YT_deletes_comments.]

Good to meet efilist. I am efilist too, from Ukraine, live in Kiev, but just for studies, my true home is in Pryluky.

[@Darkendlezzz]

I’m also an efilist

[@JenniferRusso5]

I'm also efilist.

[@russiansoul6919]

We are all efilists^°^

[@leiapeison]

Keep going!

[@kamihayes5147]

This is so interesting. I’ve had thoughts like this as I’ve contemplated whether or not to have children. It’s why I lean much more heavily toward adoption rather than creating an entirely new life (Not that adoption isn’t rife with its own issues… because it absolutely is). You seem like a very peace-loving soul and I think that is a beautiful quality in a person. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

[@kellz1377]

It's refreshing to hear someone express their views that are so well thought out Amanda. I'll be thinking about this when I walk away from the computer for sure. Awesome stuff.

[@michellemuenich7432]

I love being a parent, but I also think a lot of people who yearn to be parents won't consider adoption, which tells me that parenting isn't what they long for, but continuing their genetic line. Adoption is a great way to love children without increasing the population. And for anyone who will accuse me of preaching something I don't practice, I have two children via adoption 😊

[@strayvermin]

She seems nice. I wish there were more people like her

[@stormcorrosion176]

😂😂😂

[@Beginnerreadsthebible]

😂😂😂😂

[@Beginnerreadsthebible]

​@@Mr.Dobalina_Mr.BobDobalinathat was the joke

[@dm0065]

Nice

[@leiapeison]

We antinatalist a are growing! Our group on Reddit is over 200,000.

[@capt_howdy]

HOLY SHIT IT'S THE DRAGON BALL LADY!!!! I knew I recognized her. She was always very well-spoken and articulate, but I didn't realize just how _smart_ she was! ❤

[@lovethyneibor22736]

hi bro hru!

[@nikibu1]

Do you happen to know the name she went by when she was making those videos? I searched but couldn't find her videos...

[@nikibu1]

@@TheVisualNovel thank you!!!!

[@TonyaKay]

Really great interview. She’s well spoken and I’d never heard of anti-natalism before this. Negative Population Growth and Child-Free By Choice; yes, but this is my first exposure to anti-natalism. I also find myself answering the “how do we fix this?” question (whatever the issue is), with “stop having children”.

[@JohnB-nq4js]

That's because you're a midwit. Not having children isn't a solution to any problem.

[@Cymricus]

I like how she made the point about frankenstein and vampiric/werewolf bites being a form of procreation and passing on the existence of monsters. That’s an interesting read on the metaphors of those stories.

[@sebp9882]

Frankenstein may be one of the first tales with antinatalist sentiments- the other being the Bible maybe

[@sarahbreisch4750]

Dr. Frankenstein committed the sin of playing God-- of creating something he could control. Thus results were ghastly and reflected his own selfishness. The romantic movement of which Mary Shelly was part were reacting against the industrial revolution and the mechanization of life in general. She was not against people having babies-- but against the idea that people were against instinct, nurturing, and spontaneity.

[@sweetcandubandu]

I really enjoyed this interview. I feel neutral about the subject tbh. Amanda was very well versed and seems like a very educated person. I knew nothing about antinatalism before this video. Thank you Mark for sharing this!

[@Miakatzisoverparty]

How can you feel neutral about literal ethics?

[@gingerbread1212]

Finally I have a name for my views on life and suffering. Thank you both for this fascinating interview!

[@lovethyneibor22736]

what is ur opinion on current state of the world and society?

[@Vash98980]

You will turn to ash and will not be missed.

[@turquoiseturquoiseturquois1174]

@@lovethyneibor22736can a hole have a hole inside it

[@lovethyneibor22736]

@@deerheart87 hi brother

[@Milobolo]

@@lovethyneibor22736probably antinatalism

[@Emily-m9u8y]

This was really brave. Thank you for speaking on this difficult to broach topic. This is a really challenging topic for most people, as it really requires rewiring a lot of the way we are made to think and process the world. I think the natural primary reaction to such ideas is to push back. But just the same as any growing philosophy, that pushback by nature implies it is being heard.

[@jonathaningram8157]

you also need to reject God to have such a view because it isn't compatible.

[@angelagreen1266]

💯

[@arifeannor9573]

@@jonathaningram8157 Not exactly but reject god all the same, hes an asshole.

[@pamelapoulos5019]

What was brave about it, just curious. I find it bafflingly interesting but there's nothing heroic about this new world belief. She does seem like a nice lady. I wish her well and respect her beliefs but I don't think there's anything she's doing that's brave. Just my opinion.

[@arifeannor9573]

@@pamelapoulos5019 I wouldn't call it new world. But yeah, not brave and I am an antinatalist. Maybe it would be brave if you go to a place that hate atheists and such, deep south or saudi arabia and started telling people.

[@Dragana-vo1gb]

I've always thought there is a certain narcissism in wanting to have a child ...and also weird power dinamic teaching them your morals while kids are completely authentic individuals with their own brain and personality ....also expecting them to listen to you because you give them food and shelter while maybe they didn't want to be here in the first place...

[@ninavorobeva4927]

Wonderful idea! I really like it. What’s the purpose of life? Well, it has no purpose or meaning, everyone decides what it is for themselves. Life comes with suffering. What’s the purpose of suffering? There is no purpose, so let’s minimize it and end it.

[@lovethyneibor22736]

could u recommend any movies with these sorts of themes?

[@scott8919]

Amanda is so fascinating to listen to. She's explaining her logic and asks questions that quite frankly I wish I knew the answer to as well

[@imakitty1797]

I think one of the first steps is for us to accept that we only procreate for selfish reasons. If people understood that, then maybe they could consider if it’s the moral thing to do.

[@amandareedy9786]

I never knew there was a name for it, but this is exactly how I've always felt. I absolutely refuse to have kids, and people in my small conservative town think that makes me selfish. The complete opposite is true.

[@ijustneedmyself]

I'm a parent. It is absolutely bizarre to me that people think it's selfish to not have children 🤔 Like, what? Lol.

[@minnesconsinprepping7856]

I agree. I actually think HAVING children is one of the most selfish things you can do. You're literally doing it for yourself.

[@bluejay9890]

Oh I hate how smug some procreators are. I didn't have any children because I honeslty think it's better not to be born, yet I have to listen to procreators talk about how they "sacrificed" so much for their children and blah, blah, blah. Well, I sacrificed too by not having children. I gave up the joy of being a parent to spare someone the pain of living. Yet, I'm considered selfish.

[@lokhaxz803]

Enjoy population collapse then. lol

[@DrMontgomeryMontgomery]

​@@bluejay9890 - You cannot spare something that doesn't exist. Prevent might be the better word. Yet you must also entail the idea that you prevented creating someone who could experience the joy too. Your expressions also remind me of someone who makes themselves the victim of being around a vegan/vegetarian which I find quite ironic. "I hate how smug some [...] are" as well as "yet I *have* to listen to [...] and blah, blah, blah". It just seems as if you're really sensitive around 'natalists' which is always going to make it hard for you to even have a productive dialogue or self-refection about it.

[@jasmin.Mason1990]

Mark, I'm truly enjoying growing intellectually with the recent interviews you have been recording lately, highly interesting and fascinating for me to follow along and understand, opinions, perspective, feelings, and thoughts of the mind different from mine. Thank you for sharing Amanda ☀

[@Tm___]

Reasonable perspective. Life is a rip off and miserable for most of humanity.

[@metta9743]

Go to third world countries and you’ll be shocked at how happy they are with nothing

[@elsugga3736]

When she said that most people just want to have sex and don’t necessarily want kids I felt that because you can tell when a parent hates their kids

[@sickofemo]

Yeah, it breaks my heart how often I hear parents talking shit about there own children, it really pissed me off, those kids didn't ask to be born.

[@tinasmith7630]

@@sickofemo U correct. It's extremely selfish n true narc behaviour. Abusive n leaves life long scars on innocent children's lives.

[@TheFabFarmer]

We evolved to find sex so pleasurable so we will continue to procreate. That’s it….that’s why we have sex not the other way around.

[@elsugga3736]

@@TheFabFarmer we have birth control tho, also you don’t need to ejaculate inside the woman everytime you penetrate her

[@shake1602]

HARD truth

[@monopolybillionaire5027]

If this takes off it will rock society, and its a good thing. But most people will ignore this movement and pretend they didnt know how selfish they was.

[@johntirado-glover3574]

Fascinating conversation & individual. We definitely need more time with her. Thanks Mark.

[@mattyx25]

I would have disagreed with her viewpoint a few years ago....then I started looking at all those TikTok challenges. I get it Amanda!

[@modernmistyk4341]

That is hilarious

[@austinr.5989]

Amanda is absolutely a winner in the Antinatalist community!

[@thepostofficeprince8819]

What an accomplishment, lol

[@snowviolet508]

What’s ironic about your comment is, if what you hope for happens, there is no point to you or Amanda ever having existed.

[@austinr.5989]

@@snowviolet508 Yes, and tragically so. Are you trying to imply that somehow refutes the goal of preventing mass suffering..? Or that if the inverse happens and life continues to exist forever, we will have had a “point”..? That is too silly.

[@austinr.5989]

@@thepostofficeprince8819 the prevention of unnecessary suffering certainly is great thing! Spread the good word friend!