Solar Cars Are Coming. So Why Aren't All EVs Solar Powered?

Solar car companies like Aptera, Lightyear and Sono all say they plan on releasing their commercial solar-assisted EVs over the next few years. These vehicles offer the prospect of less frequent plug-in charging by using the solar panels to charge the batteries. So why aren’t solar panels on all new EVs? I take a closer look at the challenge of utilising the sun to unplug.
You can check out Rebecca Elliot’s column on solar cars here:
www.wsj.com/articles/solar-po...
If you’re interested in the future of mobility, how technology is changing how we get from A to B, and how modern transportation is impacting our lives, then don’t forget to subscribe.
#SolarCars #EVs #GeorgeDowns

[@GeorgeDownsWSJ]

Thanks for watching. So would you buy an EV that can be charged by solar?

[@gnardawgyt]

No

[@vijaypoola8733]

Yes yes yes

[@ShelbyHollidayWSJ]

If I were still living in sunny Colorado, YES

[@LeroyBrown]

No

[@fotoguru222]

I've got a reservation for one of those Apterae. You can too, for a refundable $100 (or less if you know someone like me).

[@chauhannishith]

Even if it does not charge the batteries it can still stop it from going dead when parked outside when not used for a long time

[@gregripp]

And extend the lifespan of the lead-acid 12v battery commonly used in EVs for accessory systems.

[@vic321344]

@@gregripp They are switching to Lithium batteries now.

[@grewgroove8781]

Not possible

[@john9076]

Good point.

[@chaselewis6534]

Also if you use it for camping or whatnot you can use the battery power for other stuff like a cook top and whatnot and not worry about getting stranded from using too much power.

[@brandoncampos2452]

Reserved my Aptera back in 2020! 600 miles, upgraded sound system, level 2 autonomy, upgraded solar, and is black!

[@vic321344]

And until now not even a roadworthy production prototype is available. Too bad.

[@aussieideasman8498]

@Brandon Campos @@vic321344 It's bleak, lol.

[@stephenadams9211]

I love the look of the Aptera!

[@deanmcmanis9398]

Thanks George for the well researched story. I've reserved my Aptera with the full solar package (40+ miles on a sunny day) plus 400 miles from the 40kWh battery, and 0-60MPH in 3.5 sec with AWD, all for the price of a Chevy Bolt. As hybrids did 20 years ago, solar assist EVs will redefine the idea of how low the operational costs of your daily driver can be. Even if conditions and efficiency are imperfect, it should still cost about half as much to drive as the EV that I drive today. With the Aptera having an EV design that is so focused on efficiency (2 seats, 3 wheels, composite body, solar + battery power) is not the best fit for everyone, but it is ideal for me. And I am really looking forward to getting my Aptera later this year! 😎

[@abhishekdev258]

Brave of you to buy an egg on wheels.

[@EarthCreature.]

@@abhishekdev258 It's common sense. Never having to charge while getting 41 free miles a day, you'd have to be a consumer cow with a crack rock for brains not to use that vehicle.

[@bftjoe]

I charge my Bolt on free public chargers, all you're getting is a less safe vehicle in the event of a crash (aptera is classified as a motorcycle so doesn't have to meet car safety standards like airbags) with less interior space that you can't use for Uber or Lyft passengers.

[@koenraad4618]

The Aptera price is not over the top (like the 177 grand light-year-one), so it has a costs break-even within its life-span, in comparison with a cheaper production car with much lower energy efficiency.

[@rashidclark]

​@@bftjoe States here that it has airbags: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqS8qn2Ae76FrMU In this video it's mentioned that they are aiming for passenger vehicle certifications, and discuss other safety features: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqmYppl5nLeXjLc Less passenger/storage space is a definite downside. Although a 1000-mile range is attractive.

[@richardmenz3257]

Solar car is great for apartments that don't have a way to charge. In my use case I would only have to plug in once every 2 weeks to a month base on cloudy days and so forth.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

You can also get a small charge from street lights

[@RajGiandeep]

Excited for Aptera!

[@feero9680]

If it cant fully charge the car, at least it still absorb energy when parked. Or simultaneously charge the car while driving even if the absorption is so little, it could at least reduce battery consumption

[@vic321344]

It is a very expensive way to spare very little energy. And you have to keep it in bright sunshine. The aircon easily eats away your whole solar yield.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@@vic321344 it's not expensive over the life of a car...so long as it's never damaged. Also, solar panels still work in overcast conditions and even under artificial light like street lights

[@vic321344]

@@veganpotterthevegan You always have to compare the price of the solar system (here 900$) with the yield. And in texas it would take more than 12 years to get a break even with household voltage. I doubt that a solar system on a car will still be functional aftzer 12 years. Or alterantively: take the 900$, buy 1 Tesla share, pay the missing yield with household currency and in 12 years lets see who drove better. Or: Take the 900$, buy a little garage solar cell array and compare the yield.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@@vic321344 why wouldn't they be functional after 12 years? They're not using cells from the 70s and even some of those are still working today

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@@vic321344 you think a garage with an array is cheaper than a solar roof option?😅

[@toshi7220]

I remember Prius 2nd gen had solar panel on the roof and let you run the AC 10 mins before entering without engine on. I thought it was the dope.

[@webster853]

When this is in a mutual state, there is no need to park your car in the garage. The car should just drive itself outside and sunbath for power. The car will come back and find you when you need it.

[@danieljeter3880]

Very cool can't wait for a brighter greener future with solar cars

[@billyfyre158]

The first reports from owners of the Hyundai Ioniq 5 with the 205 W solar roof are appearing. Most report 10-15 kWh in total yield for the first six months of ownership. Maybe 100 kWh in five years of ownership, or 25 minutes charging at a high speed charger.

[@vic321344]

You will need 40 years to get back the cost of the solar package.

[@aussieideasman8498]

@@vic321344 You may never recoup the EV costs.

[@deepprey2776]

For myself it makes sense, I drive to work where my auto will sit for several days at a time while I’m off doing my job. I like the idea

[@vic321344]

Others load their car on a freely available destination charger at their work.

[@NirvanaFan5000]

really curious about the role solar could play for 18 wheelers which have a lot of surface area for potential use. Even if they got one of those less efficient solar panels that can actually roll up, it could potentially help offset their energy needs. If it's got a shipping container sitting on it, just roll out the solar surface on the top and sides.

[@brandoncampos2452]

I would say so but remember how much weight an 18 wheeler has to haul. Id say the offset is minimal at best.

[@DanielSann]

Probably 20-30 sqm of solar panels or about 4-6 kW. The "problem" is that electric 18 wheelers will be charged every day that means that the solar panels would just extend the range of the vehicle with the kwh that they can produce during the trip. With commercial cars solar makes sense because you don't consume your battery every day and you could end up not charging your car for months.

[@clasqm]

There's a reason the shady parking places fill up first. After "a full day in the sun" anywhere more sunny than the UK, the temperature inside a car is hot enough to fry eggs on the dashboard. So all that lovely free electricity is blown away when you put the A/C on full blast. Then there is what u/v radiation does to your paintwork and upholstery ... It's a nice-to-have, but it will not replace charging as we know it.

[@victorsvoice7978]

A car that can run on sunlight. Now wouldn't that be something. It would upset the fossil fuel industry.

[@johns00982]

IMO... we should be thinking of using solar from our homes or rooftops to power cars. Much larger charging surface area, cheaper and more practical.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

The advantage of solar on the vehicle is that I can take it camping and reach places that I would not otherwise have the battery capacity to reach. The power added through solar will easily pay for the $900 cost of the full solar upgrade, even as far North and as cloudy as Iowa where I live. and even with less than1/2 the solar range I might get in San Diego.

[@johns00982]

@@n.brucenelson5920 yeah, good point. Camping is a good use scenario they didn't bring up in the video

[@vic321344]

@@n.brucenelson5920 Nobody knows the real yield of the Solar system in the Aptera. The yield of the Sono system is anemic.

[@DeanTheDoctor]

Peace of mind is always worth the investment, plus it's really dope! 😊🌎☀️

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@vic321344 Agreed.

[@badassadlusifer820]

This is gonna sell like crazy in middle east

[@kyliefan7]

This video? It’s free!

[@josephfalcasantos1941]

I've been thinking about the possibility/technology of this and the efficiency problems.. Now I'm trying to imagine the car with the shape/aerodynamics of the F117 for the solar panels..

[@alanhall6909]

A shoebox-shaped electric van would be the ideal EV for maximum solar panel exposure. Tilt-up side panels could double the exposure while parked. Many ICE commercial vans are shaped that way now.

[@chinabluewho]

The Ford Transit Phev if it had a solar roof would change the world, you would be talking about at least 40 miles a day of extended range.

[@rngalston]

As photovoltaics are developed and improved it's going to become more and more of a game improver for EVs. I have the battery tender panel on my EV and look forward to getting a drive battery charging EV.

[@vic321344]

No, they just dont work on EVs.

[@DeanTheDoctor]

SunPower has made many solar EVs possible, but you're right, it's only going to get better over time. 😊🌎☀️

[@genpaullacamera2233]

​@@DeanTheDoctor hello beautiful how are you doing today?

[@DeanTheDoctor]

@@genpaullacamera2233 I'm doing very well Gen Paul. I hope that you are as well. ✨🌎😊

[@marzipan2555]

One aspect I wonder about is parking. If solar catches on, there's gonna be a much higher demand for street asking or at least driveway parking. In bigger suburbs that isn't a huge problem but in big cities I'm not sure there enough land to go around. Solar assisted does sound cool though!

[@loodog555]

It doesn’t really matter, because the main bulk of energy used in these cars will always be provided by the plug-in component. Given the ranges, anyone with a daily commute will never be able to meet a significant fraction of their energy needs through the sun.

[@fanfare100]

I already know a guy who plans to use a mirror to direct sun to his parking spot because of this!! lol

[@fanfare100]

@@loodog555 I believe the average daily commute for Americans is 25 miles round trip. That means that the two vehicles which are capable of charging their respective batteries up to 44 miles per day would more than suffice to keep that battery topped off if they wanted to.

[@robinpettit7827]

I live in a condo and my driveway is south facing. So I will park it on my driveway. I likely will rarely drive more than 40 miles on an average day. More like 10-20 miles. Even my long drives are a maximum of 800 miles round trip, so I may be able to drive and almost never plug it in. It will depend on how many sunny days we have, of course. I, of course, will have a fast DC charger installed if my electrical panel can support it.

[@loodog555]

@@robinpettit7827 the estimate of 10 miles per day was optimistic and depends on living in a sunny desert.

[@hpman2391]

Got my pre order for my Aptera can't wait. Sunny Arizona on the Colorado River 😎

[@saiprayastha7141]

I want this for my electric scooty which was driven for 30 mins in the morning and 30 mins in the evening for commute and left in the sun for 10 to 6

[@nobelprince3357]

Great content and remarkable presentation. Subscribed right away!

[@foley.elec.services]

Will get rid of phantom drain 👍

[@vic321344]

For a high price.

[@JamilKhan-hk1wl]

really hope sono motor get their cars into malaysia ASAP. Thats exactly the type of car malaysian would buy

[@tedyuan2066]

Toyota's bz4x SUV also equipped with a solar roof.

[@Scott4271]

I have a solar powered Tesla Model 3 P. It’s just that the solar panels are on the roof of my house instead of my car.

[@adamberrahou7543]

Great video, but I think any solar can assist with the range. I don’t think we should be focusing on the charge on an average day. I think we should look toward how much the solar can assist on range during operation.

[@bnsw1999]

Yes. I paid a deposit for a Sion over a year ago.

[@vic321344]

Try to get your money back.

[@farishanafiah8461]

I like the idea because it doesn't need heavy batteries, but not all places are sunny all day.

[@AmerBoyo]

Want one!!

[@davidallyn1818]

Let's remember that solar panels work **all of the time** during day - even on cloudy days. If there is *any* sun, the solar panels will generate electricity. So, on a cloudy day, instead of 40 miles of sunny-day charge, you might get 10 miles... not 40 but still a good portion. Also, the "range" of the vehicle is rarely the daily usage amount. I commute about 20 miles round trip, so for me, even a cloudy-day, 10 mile charge, would be 50% of what I'd need. And, since I live in California, odds are that I'll have enough range from yesterday to get me through without having to plug in at all.

[@vic321344]

The Sono roof panels have a yield of 90W in full sun, 27W when slightly clouded, 0W when clouded. Everything else is phantasy. And phantasy does not fuel a car. The charging electronics for the battery pack consume around 300-600W. So most of your solar yield.

[@cantbeserious8843]

People think solar is fairly new but it has been around since the 7th century B.C

[@briansture4353]

If you had a solar Ev in one of the sunniest cities in the world like Perth in Western Australia you may get lucky and drive it for about nine months of the year. But most of the cities of the world get too much cloud cover.

[@Arkane117]

There is no excuse not to offer solar panels options on all the electric vans that's coming out soon. You have all that large flat space on top to put all the solar panels on!

[@vic321344]

It is expensive.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@vic321344 "expensive" is relative to the return. Since for most owners the cost delta will more than pay for itself in power savings, it is almost a no-brainer. Even in cloudy Iowa, it will clearly pay back the $900 cost of the full solar option.

[@aussieideasman8498]

@@n.brucenelson5920 It will do nothing until after it's real, and then you will be able to test it. I'll bet it falls way short of expectations, but my first bet is it will never eventuate.

[@chang-kp9sp]

I would say what a noble idea. PV array efficient is increased but still not practical considering cost of very efficient PV panel and total cost of car. Not too mention weather factor and current driving condition

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Even In Iowa, where I live, the $900 cost of full solar is likely to to pay for itself in energy savings over their life, and expand the utility of the vehicle for camping trips.

[@fmr3016]

Seems like the XBUS from Electricbrands is missing in the comparison ;-)

[@coveps1325]

One of the concerns are that the solar panels can get damaged from say, falling branches onto your car, which wont damage traditional metal roofs but solar panels are glass so glass is glass and glass breaks

[@baka9067]

Jerry is that you

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Damage will not necessarily greatly reduce the power output, but they can be easily replaced in the event of damage, or technical improvements.

[@vic321344]

@@n.brucenelson5920 it is just expensive.

[@DeanTheDoctor]

Most of the solar cells that you see on recent cars are using the newer ones from SunPower, which are made on a flexible copper backing and aren't as easily damaged as the older silicon cells. In fact, you can crack those cells in multiple places and they will still work. It's pretty neat stuff! 😊🌎☀️

[@juliam6442]

Solar panels are less breakable than metal. They aren't glass like your windshield. Plus they have protective covers.

[@ls93780]

With how sensitive electric circuits are nowadays just be ready to dramatically increase the chances of it being cheaper to just buy an entirely new car if you get into even a minor fender bender.

[@adambaker5297]

EVs should come with a spare tire and a solar panel emergency charge system. This would eliminate the faer of getting stranded.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

A plug kit and a DC inflator will repair most punctures. I have used them successfully in over 400,000 miles of motorcycle travel for both my bikes and cars.

[@vic321344]

How large do you think does a solar panel have to be so it is of any use for charging a car? Sunshine provided, btw.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@vic321344 34 square ft. can do the job depending on where you locate it. The panels Aptera are probably using are known to produce around 680 watts according to the manufacturer.

[@vic321344]

@@n.brucenelson5920 That was never proofed.

[@angelcamay947]

We need it right now

[@Kniffel101]

Are you going to post full interviews with Laurin Hahn and Chris Anthony? Or well, every one of them? :D

[@fatrat84r]

So we need more trees to provide cover for our city, but need less shade so we can charge solar panel on our cars, but when car not under the shade it will heat up too much so we need more power for air con…

[@anirudhmanchiraju7377]

Great effort!! Would you be open to citing your source too?

[@nephilymbass1]

Solar assisted ev would be ideal for me. I work 40 hours over three days and have 4 days off. If I don’t go anywhere that potentially up to 4 days of solar charging could be more than enough for me to get to and from my job. Meaning i probably would only have to plug in the car when doing trips that are out of the ordinary

[@stewreviews9345]

Be more useful if they'd say how many KWHs they expect to generate. I can't believe any of them are pulling more than 2 in an average day - more like 1. Still useful but I think 40 miles of normal usage range highly suspect. However, if they share their working...

[@n.brucenelson5920]

They do share this information, and publish a solar insolation chart that tells you how much you can expect. In San Diego, you can gain as much as 4,4 kWhs. In my area of Iowa it is more like 2 kWh. Look at the charts they publish for your own area.

[@marting1348]

Sion is coming :-)

[@kyliefan7]

And it will be coming soon next year also!!

[@vic321344]

@@kyliefan7 Or in two years. And then again in two years.

[@supie5063]

Would be good in Az

[@gilmore6168]

Okay experts. Just tell us electric plugs are still coal and oil dependent. While pure renewable are not and oil sharks don't like sustainable because that's not profitable

[@RavarsenBlogspot]

Solar should be standard

[@yuantan9292]

3:00 3:35 44 miles is 70 km, assuming 150 Wh/km (Tesla model 3 ideal conditions) that's 10.5kWh of energy, divided by 5 square meters that's 2.1 kWh per square meter. A modern solar panel can produce 150 watts per square meter under direct 90 degrees of sunlight. That turns out to be 14 hours of direct sun exposure for 2.1 kWh. So to get 44 miles of range from the sun in a day, these EVs has to: either (1) Not run on Earth to somehow find 14 hours of direct sunlight; or (2) Manage to be 3-6 times more energy efficient than our current most efficient EVs to charge it in 2-4 hours; or (3) Manage to generate 0.6-over 1 kW of power per square meter, thus having a solar panel efficiency of 60% (currently nonexistent even in labs) to over 100% (breaking law of conservation of energy). While also assuming: (1) Solar panel does not suffer any efficiency loss from being in a car (no overheating, UV light somehow penetrates roof glass to reach solar panels); (2) Under midsummer noon sunlight; (3) No dust, no trees, no building, nothing blocking the light; (4) Don't even think about having your AC on or windows open.

[@yuantan9292]

Also: 5 square meters of 150 Watt per square meter is 750 Watts. A pro cyclist can output 400 watts for hours long. That car has less solar power than two guys on bike pedals. Sure the solar panels can be more efficient in the future; let's say it doubles, well that's just 4 bike pedal pairs. There is no difference in orders of magnitude. IMO the future of EV lies in better battery chemistry, higher capacity, faster charging (or battery swaps); not bike pedal equivalents of extra power.

[@qboy2terafirma]

Think idealists forget about things like cars not being perfectly clean. You also forgot the bit where someone side swiped you in the parking lot leaving you with an $8000 door replacement cost for panels that won’t add any charge to your battery even if perfectly clean and in sun due to the angle.

[@GeorgeDownsWSJ]

Interesting analysis. I’ve just been back through my notes and Lightyear say that the Lightyear One is actually at 83Wh/km. That’s excluding HVAC though.

[@siesstad]

Aptera aims to use 2,5 times less energy than a Tesla Model 3. Their 40 miles per day are in optimal conditions, but even when I use my real life performance of my solar panels on my house, I should manage around 10k km in not so sunny Netherlands (when I do optimal parking). The real benefit of the Aptera I ordered is not the solar though. It's the efficiency. Small battery for long range. Less impact during production, less cost, less power from the grid, less global warming due to lower energy demand. Check out how they achieve this low energy consumption by reading my easy to follow calculations in this blog: aptera.nu/?p=67

[@siesstad]

If the future doesn't focus on efficiency, but just better batteries and faster charging, we're still going to waste too much resources and run this planet into the ground. The power needs to come from somewhere. Cutting out all the efficiencies should be our number one focus. People driving to work alone in a humongous Tesla Model X aren't doing the world any favors.

[@koenraad4618]

Lightyear1 costs 177 grand, there is no market for this extremely expensive car. Aptera could have a break-even period (compared with an ICE car) well within the life span of the Aptera car.

[@monto3420]

This is interesting

[@matthewhuszarik4173]

The added weight will in all cases more than consume the small amount of power produced, unless you hardly drive it. I plan to get an Aptera without the extra solar to minimize the weight and then just charge it with my house mounted solar where I now generate in excess of 250kwh excess per month. In an Aptera that gets me 2500 miles a month. I just need a big enough battery to collect it all and save it for later use. I am going to get the 60kwh batter at least and I am seriously thinking about the 100kwh battery, but other factors like vehicle load capacity and milage come into play when you increase the vehicle weight by another 10-20%.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

The Aptera solar cells will likely add less than 3 lbs to the weight of the car, perhaps a 1/100th % reduction in range. House mounted solar cells may be a great option and the 100 kWh battery may add value for increased V2G storage at a bargin price. However, the energy collected by full solar is still likely to be enough to pay for itself even in Iowa over the life of the vehicle and will allow camping trips to places that otherwise couldn't be reached, if you plan to use your vehicle this way.

[@vic321344]

@@n.brucenelson5920 There is not a single real independent source that proofs this marketing squak. Same with Sono Motors: They promise 20 miles per day, in reality the Solar roof just provides a yield of 90 W on a sunny day.

[@matthewhuszarik4173]

@@n.brucenelson5920 I don’t find it reasonable that the solar cells and everything you need to add to the car to support them would result in only a 3lbs increase.

[@DeanTheDoctor]

Their solar cells are encased in epoxy and they're much lighter than the solutions of the older past. 😊🌎☀️

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@vic321344 Aptera is in the betas testing phase. However, there are several independent sources such as ABRP and others that have confirmed their numbers. I don't follow Sonos closely but the FAQ on their web site claims less than 10 miles range per day from solar. Why make false claims that are easy to check on. Their figures are in km per week - perhaps you don't have the math to convert.

[@ApteraOwnersClub]

Join the club!

[@aussieideasman8498]

That will make two members, both without an Aptera. lol - what a cretin!

[@Nill757]

The efficiency increase of 40% for PV is for *lab* models. Commercial PV has other requirements, like a slow degrade rate so that the panel lasts for 20 yrs, low cost of materials and mfn, and decent low light performance. Pushing out lab models which meet none of these requirements as ready for the market is a.con. The price decline cited is also exaggerated, as the energy crisis and the Chinese monopoly has driven up the price of Si cells sharply in the last year, taking back some of the earlier price declines.

[@A_90210]

Now were talking

[@aussieideasman8498]

Yes - talking.

[@SONOMOTORS]

Thank you for this great report and feature of our Sion.

[@ratheeshmy4518]

You guys make the world a better place.

[@_FEISTY_]

I have a question: If people have to park in parking garages, how will their car charge while they're working?

[@kyliefan7]

It won’t by the sun but will need to be plugged in or have enough batter for their daily commute!

[@vic321344]

Its called destination charger.

[@josephcler3299]

You also have to keep the solar panels clean otherwise thier efficiency drops.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

True. I tend not to let layers of dust collect on my car in any case.

[@vic321344]

@@n.brucenelson5920 So you keep it in your airconditioned garage?

[@chinabluewho]

Where was the Xbus ? 100 miles of range a day off it's solar roof.

[@kylekiser3567]

I bet the state and federal taxes on this car will be crazy. Plates and tags will probably cost ya 5000.00 cause of no highway fuel tax.

[@theharmelodynetwork]

I just wat to point out, all of these solar EV's are still in pre production so don't expect anything like they're promising in terms of numbers. maybe they'll hit it, but some of these sound too good to be true. also, it was clearly stated that there is efficiency loss when they put the protective coatings on the solar panels... but they didn't say how much. I'm willing to be it nearly cancels out the previous benefits gained.

[@johndelong5574]

A battery powered light can be used to supplement sunlight at night .

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Not efficiently. Just plug it in at night. It will gain 13 miles of range per hour plugged into a standard 110 volt 15 amp outlet.

[@AriadyPutra]

It should work great in tropical countries right?

[@vic321344]

You need sun, not heat.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@vic321344 Something most tropical countries have in abundance.

[@aussieideasman8498]

@@n.brucenelson5920 Aptera will have heat in abundance everywhere.

[@matthewphares4588]

Problem is that most cars are parked inside.

[@gestorpen]

wouldn't it be more efficient to just put solar on the roof of your garage and then charge the EV from the solar battery? No extra weight, no shade from trees or parking house.

[@alanhall6909]

That's the rig I have. I've never had to charge away from home. But I would love to have panels on my EV too to extend the range while driving/parked away from home.

[@Southphxgal2023]

Still it doesn’t help much unless you can get more miles on most of them plus install charging stations every 100 - 150 miles. People need to travel, the cars need to charge faster, have more available charging stations on all roads and thats not happening now. Plus the prices need to come down more. I couldn’t afford that price on my own I would need another or larger income to get one. Still not perfect. More mileage, more charging stations, better affordable prices for everyone.

[@vic321344]

At least in germany, the supercharger net is quite dense. Never had a problem. Tesla Model 3 is most bought car in europe now. Ice included.

[@yashrathva9243]

which country you are from?

[@najeeburrahman7945]

Imagine we are driving solar car in sahara desert.

[@baka9067]

First of all trains are superior and solve every problem which have currently,and we should use public transport more and more

[@vic321344]

Rethink that in times of covid. Who wants to be transported like a sardine in a tin can? Also trains uses the equivalent of 8l gas per 100km per passenger. Quite inefficient.

[@user-yl1mo6ty1i]

It is simple, nobody makes money from free energy...

[@isaiasabinadisosagarcia936]

Aaaaaand yet people still invest in oil

[@huebeattie679]

Whiat companies are making these little solar cells that the car companies are using?

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Most have not announced their suppliers yet, but from the information available so far, I am betting that Aptera will be using Maxeon Solar Technologies cells.

[@tigerp972]

So expensive, I will never be able to afford.

[@fanfare100]

With the Aptera starting at below $25K and not having to hardly every worry about plugging it in to charge it, that alone will pay for itself. That's my biggest reason for reserving one.

[@foley.elec.services]

Sono Sion is priced at 25k€, about 22k$

[@glennalexon1530]

Yes, products that don't exist can sound very exciting. WSJ should focus on products people can't buy; it makes your channel more watchable.

[@fanfare100]

I already sat in one and was pleased. No, scratch that. It was exhilarating! I visited the factory. Not only have I made a reservation, I have become an investor. So has my dad, a childhood friend. The son of a former classmate. A business associate met at a power and energy trade show and another good friend. It seems Aptera has no problem finding investors and people pl;acing reservations.

[@vic321344]

@@fanfare100 They have just difficulties to deliver their promises.

[@aussieideasman8498]

@@fanfare100 You sat in a fake prototype - it had no solar, and a real Aptera still doesn't exists.

[@scrillathekid5562]

As the tech improves, maybe. But today, it’s not there yet.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

The there we are at today will supply me with 15 or 20 miles per day in Iowa - enough for my daily needs and an occasional trip to Des Moines or Kansas City. It won't be for every one, but for many of us it will be cost effective and pay for itself.

[@vic321344]

@@n.brucenelson5920 That is just marketing squack. No independent party really proved it.

[@XxDJVirtualxX]

No because I can’t go for a very long drive without stopping

[@fanfare100]

Even when you stop, it will be charging itself as you eat your hamburger.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

With an EPA range of up to 1,000 miles, I would say you can go on a "very long drive" - certainly longer than the average ICE vehicle.

[@aussieideasman8498]

@@fanfare100 And that wouldn't get you out of the car park.

[@aussieideasman8498]

@@n.brucenelson5920 I'll race an Aptera for 1,000 miles on a highway keeping to speed limits in my Citroen C5 and bet I beat it by at least an hour.

[@youxkio]

Another point about solar cars is, how many of you drive the car to work and leave it outside in the open, without any shadow? When we come back to the car and it is so hot that you way for it to cool down. Countries below the 40º latitude have more sun time and better conditions for these solar cars.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

The Aptera foam sandwich body has a much higher r value compared to most vehicles. The climate control system can bring the temperature to a comfortable level before you return.

[@youxkio]

@@n.brucenelson5920 More flamable too.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@youxkio Could be, but studies show that vacuum infusion panels in general are less flammable than conventional layup methods. This is likely to be a minor concern even compared to to other FG bodied vehicles.

[@DeanTheDoctor]

I think it's just going to be nice to ditch the gas tank and visits to the gas station. Those are odors I certainly won't miss! 😊🌎☀️

[@youxkio]

@@DeanTheDoctor Yes, and I don't know about you, but in my country often I have to wait in line to fill in gas, and that's another negative factor. I rather wait, in a previously software announced, ready to charge, charging point than in a unexpected to see, time wasting, gas station.

[@JGirDesu]

Imagine being like, “I can’t drive today because the sun is not out” 😂😂😂

[@MikeYoungeasytravel]

That is not how these vehicles work! These are BEVs, and solar just adds additional power or tops off the battery!

[@claycountykillers]

It would take 6 months to charge that car with those solar panels.

[@fanfare100]

It takes less than an week to fully charge the Aptera model with the smallest battery in its menu of offerings; the smallest battery they sell is capable of a 250 mile range. Other options include 400 mile, 600 mile and 1,000 mile battery packages. The one that I reserved is 400 miles range. I figure that, as an humid bean, I mean, a n human being, I will be required to make a nature break at some point. lol

[@vic321344]

@@fanfare100 That is just repeated marketing squack. There is no independent source that proofs these claims.

[@mariappanperiasamy1695]

The new renewable electricity producing organic air batteries developed in India which converts residual ambient solar heat available around us 24hrs in the "shadow" has potential to replace all other methods of electricity production to power household devices, to power EVs and to supply electricity to the grids! Further, this new renewable electricity production method has potential to give additional income to landless homeless poor households to rent or to build their homes instead of living in streets!

[@mr88cet]

Then the next question is how much collected solar energy will you burn cooling your car back down from leaving it out in the Sun all day?

[@n.brucenelson5920]

This is a great question. The answer will depend, but the r value of the Aptera cabin is far higher than most car bodies due to the foam sandwich construction. It will be a win-win for most of us. The same insulation will increase battery range even if you only charge from a plug.

[@vic321344]

@@n.brucenelson5920 The Aptera will fully heat up through the large, quite horizontal windows. You will not only need the aircon after loading in the sun, but also while you are driving in sunshine.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@vic321344 What does "fully heat up" even mean? The windows will be treated to reject radiant heat and the rear window of the full solar models will be fully covered in solar cells. You don't even do the most basic research into the information available to you and everyone else.

[@Wasaga1951]

Open the f'ing windows, like you do on your ice car today!

[@mr88cet]

@@Wasaga1951, that depends upon how hot it is. Here in Austin TX, opening windows is not often a realistic option. For the past 6 weeks or so, the high temperatures have been around 40C (>100F). Even if it’s in the high-20s (>80F), I’d prefer to use the air conditioner than to take a shower and change clothes when I get home.

[@LuisMendoza-pp9qi]

Solar is simply TOO weak to charge a full battery, it'd take 30 hours to fully charge!!

[@vic321344]

it could also be 300 hours. nobody knows.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@vic321344 Many people know the ballpark times if you know the likely conditions, and Aptera has given us most of the information needed to calculate the needed power. It doesn't take too many assumptions to know that the numbers check out.

[@vic321344]

@@n.brucenelson5920 But no real world measurements. And that is all that counts. Same with real world crashtests. Everything else is wishful thinking and marketing sqwack. Aptera could have done both measures long time ago. But they didnt. Or they did? And keep silent? Assumption: They already knew the real data in 2011, so they abandoned the 3 wheel design of the Aptera 2 in favor of a 4 wheel design.

[@A_90210]

Wonder why Tesla scrapped the idea?

[@kieranhamaguchi68]

There is not enough surface area on a car to justify the inclusion of solar panels. The average solar panel only converts 20% of the suns radiation at there peak so at the moment it doesn’t make much sense in putting any on a car. At this stage it really is not worth it, it is better to put solar on your house and charge your vehicle from there instead.

[@A_90210]

@@kieranhamaguchi68 Provided we have a home. Apartment dwellers don't have that option

[@masterrpgs]

Tesla is still supposedly working on adding solar panels to the Cybertruck. It makes more sense to do it on a large vehicle like the truck because it has more large flat surfaces for the sun to hit.

[@NathanCroucher]

@@masterrpgs Thats probably a sales gimmick.

[@GeorgeDownsWSJ]

I spoke to some experts about this, and while you’re right about the large surface area, there are still issues when it comes to putting solar on large vehicles like trucks, and that’s because those vehicles tend to be far heavier. It’s a different equation and still challenging.

[@Cross-xm2fr]

Solar roof much better idea than solar on ev

[@NathanCroucher]

Exactly

[@fanfare100]

@@NathanCroucher I would agree, except for when I drive for business I don;t have the luxury of such a solar roof. Usually its some parking lot when I arrive at my destination. The beauty is being able to drive across several states, do my business there and at the end of the week to have more than enough charge to return by driving across several states. ...without every needing to plug in! Until now this was unheard of!!

[@aussieideasman8498]

@@fanfare100 So it's heard of - but it doesn't happen.

[@manhoosnick]

A few '30 under 30' will make millions out of this and then realise it doesn't work... except for the "startupers"

[@EddyFeyen]

And we always forget to say what is the temp outside and do we have our airco on or not. This may take half of your power and so your miles to drive. And read what the real experts say that this i AGAIN an over statement as always with electric cars.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

The Aptera cabin is made of composite foam sandwich with a much higher r value than conventional cars. The amount of AC needed will be far less than vehicles with conventional construction. There are indeed some overstatements - such as the EPA highway range calculations which are fairly unrealistic for setting expectations for what average drivers will achieve. This comes from the government. The expectations for Aptera seem to be panning out now during the beta validation testing. My expectation for Iowa is about 1/2 the solar range for the San Diego area, but since I live in a small town in Iowa, it will still likely meet my daily driving needs plus the occasional trip to Des Moines or Kansas City - all from solar.

[@casvanmarcel]

For now, putting solar panels on your car would be like charging your car from your phone charger in full sun.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Do you have a phone charger that can supply 4,000 watt hours per day?

[@vic321344]

@@n.brucenelson5920 Who does?

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@vic321344 Aptera has a car charger that can in full sun in San Diego. You can look up the output of the cells that they are likely using and the area covered and calculate the numbers for yourself.

[@vic321344]

@@n.brucenelson5920 But they never measured it. And did not take into account that the batterie charging electronics consumes 300-600W.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@vic321344 How much do you know about the Tesla Cybertruck? Do you think that they have never measured anything either? You don't know what engineers do, obviously.

[@IReapZz95]

This won’t work in europe… i live in spain and there are so many streets and houses without garages to plug in electric cars or without sun light that is going to be very interesting how people are going to make the change to electric like Europe is wanting to do

[@MoMdwin]

Felice,

[@Atilolzz]

No was this bug car can do 1000 miles

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Of course it will, and much further, depending on the speed you are willing to drive.

[@diymicha2]

Solar assisted cars are not comming. Because physics. Like Mrs. Newman says, the panels will never have the ideal direction to the sun. Dust, grime, leaves etc. will reduce the efficiency further. Then there is parking: If you park the car in bright sunlight it's more likely the AC eats all the generated power to cool down the passengers compartment afterwards. Trees, lamp poles, billboards, roofs will drop shadows that move with the sun. You'll need to repark your car every so often to prevent it from getting shaded. There's a limit of the efficiency of solar panels. The maximum amount of energy from the sun is around 1000W/m² in middle europe. Panels can use at best 20-30% of this enery, if pointed out perfectly to the sun, and no clouds whatsoever. All those companys and startups tell us the very best case scenario, which will never be in real life. So the harvested energy from solar panels on vehicles probably never pays their own cost. Panels belong on roofs. Pointed out to the sun. With a plug to the vehicle.

[@najibyarzerachic]

perfection is the enemy of good enough

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Although many of your points regarding physics are correct, your conclusions are not. Aptera is constructed with a foam sandwich body that has a much higher r/value than usual vehicle construction and the heat gain (or loss) will be far lower than with a standard car. I live in Iowa and will probably only get 20 miles of range per day on the average - far more than I will need in small town Iowa - and enough to support the occasional trip to Des Moines and Kansas City. The cost of full solar is almost a no brainer for many of us.

[@vic321344]

@@n.brucenelson5920 If you leave the Aptera in the sun the large windows will deliver the full heat into the interior. No brainer.

[@aussieideasman8498]

@@n.brucenelson5920 Your premise is idiotic and irrelevant. He was talking about the solar capability and nothing to do with the cabin's R value. You are up a different tree, but mostly off your tree.

[@sikhswim]

Simple answer: panels can’t be sufficiently large to give you a significant/notable charge. (Edit; given current panel tech and typical sunshine on a given non-ideal day)

[@bobhilder1469]

Aptera, with the "full solar" package, is claimed to be able to get on the order of 40 miles worth of range on a good sunny day. I'd say that's a "notable charge".

[@michaellim4165]

Efficiency will always improve. So given the same real estate, an improved efficient solar panel will generate more power per square inch/cm than the previous generation. At the rate at which they are improving things, things will only get better.

[@fanfare100]

The Aptera is capable of producing 700 Watts, That will be more than enough to have a capability to charge 44 miles per day from the sun. And this is now. 3 years from now mark that number up by about 30% given the constant increases in efficiencies.

[@bobhilder1469]

First, the Aptera is CLAIMED to produce 700 watts under ideal conditions. By my count there are 184 full size Maxeon cells on the car (w/ "full solar" option). Currently the best (i.e., most efficient) solar panel available has cells operating at 3.85 watts each at Standard Test Conditions (STC). If Aptera had these cells (they likely don't) AND did at least a good of a job assembling/packaging them as Maxeon (they likely can't) AND all the cells on the Aptera were pointed in the same direction (they don't) then the 184 cells could produce 184 cells x 3.85 watts per cell = 708.4 watts at STC. Second, although I hope I'm wrong, I'm not as optimistic as some about the pace of efficiency improvements in solar cells. I'd say there might be commercially available 30% (nominal) cells (likely silicon/perovskite multi-junction) within, maybe, 10 years.

[@m4d_al3x]

@@bobhilder1469 But they haven't sold a single car, have they?

[@DanBurgaud]

Drive for 5 miles, then park to recharge for 2 hours... rinse repeat until you get home.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

With the smallest battery pack having a 25 kWh capacity and a less than 100 watt hour consumption at EPA highway speeds, this would never be the case. With that size battery you would fill it in less than 1/2 an hour of charge time plugged into a 50 kW DC charger anyway. .

[@chopperking007]

No ones talking about battery fires you can't put out...

[@mahirakalucasahammed2443]

Because it’s inefficient

[@timkahn2813]

well wont be confusing smarts with brit accents from now on.