Solder Vs Crimping | Why is Soldering So HATED In Motorsport Wiring?

[@hpa101]

One argument against crimping that pops up often is the cost of entry, which these days is surprisingly affordable when comparing to the cost of a quality soldering iron and materials. 🔥 Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all-inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/vipy130 ⚡ 50% off your first online wiring course! Get the knowledge and confidence you want. Enrol today: hpcdmy.co/offery130 0:00 - Intro 0:59 - Crimping Correctly 2:00 - Soldering Correctly 2:20 - The Weakness of Solder 2:36 - Mitigating Risk 3:02 - Exceptions To The Rule 3:39 - Potting 4:00 - How To Make It Safer 5:19 - The Downside of Potting 5:28 - Soldered Connectors 6:04 - The Golden Rule 6:11 - Terminating Shielded Cable 7:18 - Solder Sleeve 8:13 - The Advantage Of Solder Sleeves 8:56 - Crimp Where You Can 9:18 - Outro

[@mormonboy25]

I'm a certified air frame and powerplant mechanic currently working for a company that does aircraft electrical work and I regularly use all of the techniques shown in this video. Both solder and crimp joints work under the caveat that they are done correctly. Both will fail if their respective weaknesses aren't accounted for. I've encountered both poorly made unsupported solder joints that crumbled at the slightest disturbance, and over crimped or under crimped pins that snapped off or slipped out respectively.

[@matt_1969ChevyC1o]

It took me a while to accept this, but you guys are spot on with crimps that use the correct tools vs. soldering. Emphasis on quality crimp tools, not the $10.99 pair at the neighborhood parts house. Great points all around!

[@neilkurzman4907]

A terminal salesman wants told me that if I used his terminals and cramping holes the wire would break before it pulled out of the crimp. I took him up on it, he was right the wire broke every time. It never pulled out of the crimp.

[@scottshepherd1365]

I only use solder for mid wire repairs. However I always use a marine grade heat shrink over the joint which is lined with adhesive and fully seals the connection

[@saab9251]

Non insulated butt connectors and solid crimps work even better with proper heat shrink. Open barrel crimps also work great. Also faster and easier to get into tight quarters for repairs.

[@jerrykinnin7941]

I love marine grade heat shrink. My wiring mainly consists of tailights on container chassis. So nothing fancy. I just drop a piece of HS twist the wires together. Then slide the HS back over the joint. Its a quick fix at 2 am. Those $3 blowtorch lighters work great for heat shrink.

[@jkotka]

guys, please stabilize the images of Andre talking , my soldered connections broke due to the vibration while watching.

[@hpa101]

Fair call. I believe we had an issue with the stabilisation not enabled on this video. I apologise to your failed solder joints - Would never have happened if you'd crimped though 😉- Andre

[@nickdibart]

@@hpa101 crimping during an earthquake would be no small task.

[@templebrown7179]

Definitely! The camera was so shaky I half-expected a money shot 💰🍆💦

[@ecpruthless]

i use both crimp and solder (for different circumstances) ... that said, a lot of people simply just suck at soldering

[@fingineer2439]

I was thinking about this too. Fighter jets have much more vibration and thousands of solder joints. Besides, crimping also creates a failure point where the wire enters the connector.

[@fataxe1]

OEM's use crimps where possible because it provides an acceptable, serviceable, easy to replicate and cheap connection. soldering has the capability to provide a higher surface contact area and is mechanically superior to crimps for strength. however, it doesn't do well in vibration prone environments where the end of the solder joint is prone to being a point of movement. ironically, crimps have an even worse contact point for stress risers. the booted connections provide sufficient strain relief which can 100% mitigate this, while soldered connections require skill to mitigate stress. in all actuality, do what you want. crimps require a higher entry cost for price, and aren't as cheap to make as solder joints, but their serviceability is a strong point. bad crimps and bad solder will both fail. OEM's also design harnesses with more testing than any motorsport team will ever put a car through. heat and stress mitigation rules still apply to all electrical, regardless of race or a car with a 20 year service life. as for potting connections, I've seen some people use a crimped pin pushed over the contact, then filled with epoxy. if you're pedantically opposed to soldering, this is a possible solution.

[@davelittle8852]

fine, so long as you take the resistance AND FRAGILITY OF SOLDER INTO ACCOUNT Youcould also ask.y.s. why they only crimp in avionics

[@CanalRenaultClio]

Thats it bro.. you are totally correct

[@pseudosmith9945]

Seems like "potting" would cause a concerning amount of heat to any given sensor via pins into said sensor internals.. having to get the pin hot enough to take solder properly...

[@fataxe1]

@@pseudosmith9945 most electronics will tolerate soldering heat. If you're an idiot and don't know how to solder and cook things, that'll cause damage. But just soldering bare wire to a pin won't put enough heat in to hurt anything.

[@fataxe1]

@@davelittle8852 avionics uses it because much of the legislation and regulations were created around being sued. The technology in the 50s was also junk for material sciences compared to what we have now.

[@chuckhabrack3330]

I read quite a few comments for one or the other and against one or the other. This is proper of any type of automotive work. One thing I can say is that no matter where you stand on any something vs something, when you argue your point the weakest offence is say the other one sucks with nothing back how your stand is better.

[@jadely77]

I love that trick for soldering the wires to the terminals of that sensor. I'd never considered that before, but now I know how I can fix my grandpa's alternator charging issue.

[@hpa101]

Glad it helped Freedo! Hope you get him back up and running :) - Taz.

[@jadely77]

Yeah, I can dismount the alternator, solder the wires in place, set some epoxy, crimp on some Deutsch terminals, slap on the connectors, put everything back together, and call it a day.

[@sc358.]

@@hpa101 have potted for high end race applications (trophy trucks). Haven't used the bent wire technique though. In my experience. The part is put in a mill, the connector is milled so you have access to the pins from the side. The terminals are used without the connector (crimping terminals onto the wires without the male connector). Slid on one by one, soldered through access window. Heat shrink over each individually. Then your DR-25. Then strain relieve it internally by putting the harness/wires into the connector slightly where it stays in place, wire kinda U'd. Tape up the access you cut with the mill. Used RT125. Set it topside of connector up, only pot about 1/3 at a time without letting harden, use a heat gun. Each time it settles and removes any air. On last pass do a nice cap/finish with heat gun and let it cure. Then finish the other side and bench test it. Zip tie tab may be jb welded into place for an external strain relief. Little more specifics to it but you get the idea. Survives in some of the harshest conditions you'll see.

[@dreupen]

Nice video. Same is true with Marine wiring. The ABYC standards do not allow solder connections except in one general case -the use of solder plugs for connecting large gauge wire to terminals such as battery wire to ring terminals. The solder plugs come sized to the wire and include flux. Another problem with solder connections were the results of poor soldering, i.e. cold solder joints. This problem is similar to those using cheap squish crispers. That is user error.

[@tangles01]

I friend of mine was an avionics tech (auto electrician for aircraft) He/they never crimp any wire than can be soldiered, for access and other reasons crimps are used in some places. As far as vibration, he specialises in helicopters and was maintaining rescue helicopters. Pretty hard working aircraft in all sorts of shitty conditions.

[@hpa101]

There are comments around saying the opposite, it's a divisive topic, often between different age groups too. We're talking motorsports here but if you Google for some information around soldering in avionics you will come across the same arguments interestingly. On modern equipment I believe they are a little stricter on requiring crimps, but again, I'm just going off what has been commented on the channel regarding this topic over the years as we are in a completely different industry - Taz.

[@CFHmetalorama]

Used to work on electronics for logging whilst drilling for oil, these tools were in a string behind the drill head and had the absolute shit kicked out of them at high temperatures, everything was soldered to a high standard and employees were tested on IPC theory and practical skills annually. Anyone can make a solder joint hold for a bit, same goes for a weld, but learning to do it right and know it's going to hold up takes practice. I work in the subsea industry now and by comparison everything soldered is garbage, it doesn't need the structural integrity so it's thrown together half assed.

[@Pro2eus]

That's also my experience with aircraft avionics. Dubs are usually crimped, however when splices and nodes are made they are nearly always soldered.

[@hpa101]

@@bowez9 we gave you sources, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about this though. You can search around the internet, we are not the only ones to talk about the downfalls of soldering or crimping as well as the advantages as it seems to be no matter what we tell you, you don't trust us, so try more sources 🤘 - Taz.

[@sparqqling]

@@Pro2eus Both have there advantages! But if I have to fix something with a cheap soldering iron or a cheap crimp tool, I'll use the soldering iron.

[@RestorationWatch]

When I was being taught, military spec electrical joints were only mechanical, and never soldered. When it came to solder, we always used one with the highest silver content we could get, for better conductivity. Cardas solder is the best by far IMO.

[@experiment86]

I think it comes down to using proper techniques, equipment and most importantly strain relief/immobilization on the wires and connectors. Crimping can produce consistent results every time as long as you follow the directions on the box. Soldering requires a bit of skill and can lead to different results even when done by the same person.

[@NieJestemzPolskiPL]

MANY thanks for the vdeo, it feels so good to see someone explaing topic sooo nicely and neatly!

[@eugenekochnieff]

All DB connectors are available in mil spec with crimp pins. Re the solder sleave, in my high reliability instrumentation wiring I strip the cable back further and unbraid the screen then use heat shrink to make it a very flexible drain wire, easy, and there is zero discontinuity in the screen conductor.

[@Veritas-invenitur]

I nearly exclusively use heat shrink solder sleeves/connectors covered with a thick wall glue coated heat shrink. I have yet to find a single connection properly made using reputable connectors fail. When done properly you cannot find a better attachment method for stranded connectors 18g-10g. 8g and below use hydraulic crimping or exothermic welding period.

[@zed65656]

Hahaha using the correct crimp, correct tooling and the best of the best... Soldering with the cheapest iron that shenzhen could deliver

[@hpa101]

2nd cheapest. You always go one up from the bottom to be safe ya know - Taz.

[@GasketManzrevenge]

@@hpa101 Tools don't make the mechanic.. I have a few of them I'd collected over the years and modded for.. reasons.. but I do enjoy having my adjustable Weller bench model at home.. upgrade when you can is my best recommendation for anyone, but technique is paramount. Here's a skill to learn, SMD replacement with a small heat gun, give it a try.. guaranteed to frustrate for at least the first few days.

[@Mbg8888]

thermal wire wrap have yet to be discovered in the car community

[@404Anymouse]

@@GasketManzrevenge Somewhat true for soldering, demonstrably false for crimping.

[@GasketManzrevenge]

@@404Anymouse I have to laugh.. you've never seen over crimped or using the wrong jaw set? Any three fingered football fkg monkey can do that.. is that what you're saying? That's what I hear when using "demonstrably wrong". Technique in every aspect of life is what brings success. I tire of repairing repairs.

[@questioneverything1123]

So many (too many) people do not utilize proper soldering techniques [not being snarky, or judgemental... simply a fact] In a very broad sense, I do agree that solder connections can be an unacceptable due to great variability in the connection. I value the gas tight weld of a crimped, especially with certain metals, gauge wires, multi conductor and less heat resistant (non Teflon) dialectics. I will do multiple things when and where I can I crimp, solder and heat shrink, especially on ring terminal connectors. I really like the quality of you work, as shown, the connector that was soldered, epoxy filled and heatshrinked (very beautiful finish product) Those are some wiring harnesses to be proud of... KUDOS

[@Aqnde]

Around here I've been trying to convince some old-schoolers for several years now of the superiority of crimping. I believe that most of the bad rep of crimping is due to inferior or clearly incorrect tools. Lineman's pliers seem to have been commonly used to crimp pretty much everything and I've come across a lot of connections that have been crimped with side cutters even.

[@minigpracing3068]

I haven't looked in a while, but crimp db9 should be easy to find, and Neutrik used the have crimp XLR connectors up to either 6 pins or maybe 8 pins. The crimpers needed for the db series are normally several hundred dollars each, which is why most of these get soldered. Strain relief on the shell should prevent most issues with the solder joint at the pins.

[@garygullikson6349]

When was a Mil Spec soldering/electronic assembly instructor in the 60's , we had reps from crimped connector companies demonstrating their wares. The key to reliable crimped connectors is to constantly check and recalibrate crimping tools to be sure that crimps are accomplished exactly as required so that the connection was electrically and physically reliable and not subject to deterioration from environmental conditions. It is debatable whether a crimped connection is, in reality , more reliable than a properly soldered connection without " wicking" problems.

[@arthurmorgan8966]

Well, my 3D printer used to fail and halt for no reason at times after being used for a while. I found out it was because of soldered end of wires and soldered cable extensions. Crimped everything, not one failure afterwards. Although solder looks connected and whole piece, there can be microscopic cracks introducing resistance.

[@daveg7878]

Great video. Helpful information with rational reasoning. It all makes sense. Please get a tripod though. The shaky cam thing is distracting.

[@T7thK]

I use to hate crimping, until I found a good crimping tool. Proper tooling matters a lot for crimping!

[@marzsit9833]

it's also important to match the crimping tool to the connectors being crimped.

[@mcbridemotorsports5788]

The best Wiring Harness on Race Cars I've ever had the pleasure to work with were from J.A.S. And although 99.9% of the time we don't solder in racing. My boss did it one time. Had a crank sensor wire get pinched after a driver hit a tire barrier at the previous race. Couldn't get a replacement in time for the next race as the sensor was still good and the boss wanted to keep our spares for the track. The way the harness ran it made crimping the wire a no go. I mentioned, "why don't we solder it?" I got the great big lecture about "Never Solder Anything in Racing..etc..etc." It was Friday and we were loading out that Sat. He told me to go home and that he'll take care of it. Came into work on Sat to load out and seen the wire was repaired. I was curious and asked him. "How did you repair it?" He kinda off hand said. "I soldered it." I laughed and said. "But we don't solder in Professional Racing!" He laughed and said "We do what we gotta do, Send it!" Later on he told me since it only had to make it through that next race weekend before we got a replacement harness he wasn't worried but as a rule of thumb I should never solder any wiring. Which is a shame because I love how clean a perfect solder looks when repaired. EDIT: As a side note, when crimping the right tool plays a major part as with anything automotive. First time I ever used a pair of good crimpers and seen how almost perfect every crimp was I threw away my cheap ones and spent good money on a set. And after my experience with Deutsch Connectors in racing I picked up a good kit and tool. And when I rebuilt the Engine Harness for my 97 Comp T/A I upgraded as many of them as I could to that style. Unfortunately some of the GM sensors still require the old Weather Pack Style and they just don't seem to hold up to heat cycles as well. Im replacing them at least every 3 years because they get brittle and break. "Turbo LT1 and I'm still fighting Under hood Temp issues to this day. But my IAT's are good so its not my 1st concern"

[@notsonominal]

You can get more or less fancy crimpable d-sub connectors, used a lot when worked in building automations eons ago. Amp 58372-1 is a pricey tool though.

[@maxheadrom3088]

5:36 That was awesome! Thanks! Thanks for the video!!!

[@Fireship1]

I solder everything on my car, truck and boat. Solder and adhesive heat shrink tube. No issues. Ever. But I do see your point. That jumbo jet that stays in the air has most of its wiring crimped. They only use solder splices in certain connections.

[@sparqqling]

That's why there is a NASA guideline on how to SOLDER splices, he talks BS.

[@MonzaRacer]

Now I have ratcheting crimpers, I also use a specific technique I started 30+ yrs ago of crimp, solder and shrink tube and with new glue/sealer shrink tube I'm having awesome results. Now my plans on race cars is no shrink tube so driver/crew cab see any broken wires if needed and a small tool box with crimpers and terminals stay in the car properly secured. I've had to repair specific wires at line several times with great success. E en loaned tools out before.

[@hpa101]

Wires shouldn't be breaking often enough to warrant not sealing them, I think this is something you might be able to avoid. Double check your strain relief techniques and if you're not already try something like Raychem DR25 for shrink tube along with moulded boots for your connectors and breakouts. Ensuring your routing is on point might help too if the issues are caused by the location of the wiring and there are alternatives that might take a bit more time but save you this headache. Things sometimes do you wrong, but as the saying goes if you're planning for something to fail, you're failing to plan. Tools in the car are great though. For some racing disciplines a basic tool kit is required as if the driver can't get the car back to the pits himself for the pit crew to work on it then it's a DNF, so that is great - Taz.

[@946towguy2]

OE manufacturers use crimping or soldering according to what saves them the most money and survives beyond the warranty period. There are some applications where one or the other is preferred and I have seen where soldering a crimped connection is done.

[@seanliddy6462]

That was a brilliant video, I need to upgrade my tools as my crimps suck!

[@hpa101]

This might be a helpful place to start if you need any ideas - www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/ - Taz

[@wayne9518]

1980-1982 many of my soldered connections were destined for space flight. Skill development and certification was a key factor and part of that was limiting the wicking of solder beyond the area it was needed so it couldn’t wick up up the wire under the insulation. Many pin and socket connectors were solder cup type. Of the crimped connections a very expensive calibrated crimper was required. Many of these connections were then potted also. I’m old now but if it is meant to be permanent and especially if it will be exposed to heat and humidity, it gets soldered, cleaned, and covered. Usually heat shrink.

[@hpa101]

Soldered connections are not immune to heat and humidity. Just like a crimped connection, they should be sealed - Taz.

[@emptech]

A properly crimped gas-tight connection is superior to a soldered connection. You noticed the words "properly crimped" and "gas-tight." When a connection is soldered, the metallurgical characteristics of the metals is altered, the metals become more brittle than before soldering. If you have worked around aircraft, connections are crimped, not soldered.

[@MrEkg98]

Strange. I have seen both types. Quite offen i have seen inline splices with solder bands built in.

[@Hydrogenblonde]

I solder all my connections, even previously crimped OEM connections. But careful attention must be paid to mechanical support of the connection as stated in the video. I achieve this using heat shrink tube applied twice on each connection. A small size first and a larger size over that for 3/4 inch down the wires or as required and covering any part of the connector that will be exposed when in place to also provide electrical insulation. I've had connections done in this fashion last 35 years plus and maintain good electrical conductivity and be free from breakages. OEM crimps often don't break but resistance at the point of crimping increases over time. This probably doesn't matter in a race car, you'll be building a new one before resistance problems arise.

[@BorisSpark]

Crimp and solder, correct strain relief and water proof connectors, just gives me a piece of mind that's all.

[@hpa101]

If you need to crimp and solder, you're either doing one, the other, or both methods wrong. Either method done correctly (we prefer crimping for the reasons outlined) will be sufficient and save you time too. If you've had issues with only using crimping or soldering it would be worth zeroing in on why and changing the way you do it to give you more confidence imo, but you are of course free to do whatever you wish at the same time on your own projects 🤘 - Taz.

[@siberx4]

This is really just a question of strain relief; a crimped joint at the end of the crimp point is, by itself, subject to the same strain problems as a soldered wire is just after the point where the wicked solder terminates. The actual joint itself is equally strong/reliable in either case, with each having possible failure modes that come out about equal (bad crimp due to tool/pressure issue, failed solder due to cold joint or use of corrosive flux that wasn't cleaned). The only difference is that you're using crimped connectors that contain built-in provisions for strain relief at the appropriate points, so this consideration is handled "automatically". A soldered connection correctly strain-relieved past the wicking point would exhibit similar reliability, but it will almost certainly be more labour-intensive and time consuming to implement than a crimped connection.

[@yamahaxs6501]

Great topic and reinforces my own observation over the years.

[@kmemz]

If I want to join two heavy guage cables, I'll stick to solder for high electricity flow, I'll crimp for a high stress connection, and if I need both high electricity flow and high stress, I'll go for something more exotic; stuff like soldering a crimp to improve the electrical side of the connection, and using high temp hot glue for joints that aren't going to see melting point tempuratures; Hot glue provides a similar effect to potting, while being easy to re-melt and/or peel away if the joint needs to be undone or reworked for some reason.

[@keshmo12]

Huh wish this video would have showed up yesterday before I crimped a few wires. I crimped them wrong. I only went around the copper and not the outside wire. I ended up crimping it poorly then soldering it. Came out okay. Not a critical part though. Good video I learned something.

[@hpa101]

Learning is all part of it, and seeing how you can do something better in the future is always a good sign of progress too. Hope you're enjoying the project 😎 - Taz

[@insulterify]

Both have their place though I agree crimping is usually better. Repairing mid-wire insulation rub through I prefer crimps. Though to connect a battery cable to the battery terminal clamp I like to solder it for more contact area with the clamp. I've had battery cables pull out of the clamp and soldering has always held it securely enough in addition to the clamp for multiple years.

[@rossg9363]

I always dip the wire in Vaseline (its dielectric ) before crimping to stop any corrosion that may affect the connection in the future along with any none waterproof connectors get a vaseline coating also.

[@atrainace114]

So what about something like solder seal wire connectors as I have watched a few videos where the connection is cut open. the solder doesn't wick it actually just encapsulates the wires, kind of like a welded crimp. I have seen several examples where the solder doesn't travel thru the wires where the solder cuff is. Now I'm not talking the knock off ,but the origionals.

[@carlubambi5541]

As a master electrician I can tell you that both are ok. The problem is in its use. And when you crimp and you use one brand of ferules and a different brand of crimp tool you may run into problems. I use Vaco crimp tool on Vaco terminals, I use 3m crimp tool on 3 m terminals,Burndy crimper on Burndy terminals, ring terminals and spade lugs, but splices ect . I use Fox ferrule crimper on the ferules I use. The rest I solder. I use western unions and solder

[@Xtroll1738]

What a load of crap! I've only been working on vehicles for 40 years, part of that time professionally. On the interior and in sealed connectors, you can get away with crimping with like you said, the correct tools. On the exterior or anywhere where the connection may experience moisture, it needs to be soldered and heat shrunk. I learned that lesson in the mid 80s while doing vehicle accessories installs where anything on the exterior or exposed to moisture had problems in a short time if not soldered and heat shrunk. Trailers are a perfect example where at the factory they don't want to spend the time to solder and heat shrink so usually with a couple of years you start having problems. I have never had a failure of any trailer I've rewired using solder and heat shrink. I've also never had a wire break at or near a solder joint. Manufacturers have had and still do have problems with crimps as I've repaired many of them. Matter of fact while I've never seen a proper sold joint fail or break, I have seen wires break at the crimp. My bet these guys are selling crimp products which is the reason they are putting out this crap, too make a profit!

[@CanalRenaultClio]

you are absolutely right

[@daversj]

So if i bugger a solder joint or bugger up a crimp job they will both fail......got it.

[@victortitov1740]

Soldered connections are also prone to creep. That manifests as a joint falling apart under seemingly small but constant stress, after days or even months. An easy experiment to try is to bend a thin wire of solder from a spool to be suspended in the air, and watch how it collapses onto the table in the course of a few minutes or hours.

[@neilkurzman4907]

In a proper solder joint the solder is not supposed to support the connection. That would be the weakest type of solder joint.

[@AshenTechDotCom]

crimping isnt always more reliable, a place i worked where we always sinned the tips then crimped , for some parts we would actually soldered OVER the crimps, this was equipment used in high stress/vibration/heat/cold environments, one of the issues, even with proper crimps, was actually with the mechanical connection producing heat that a solder joint would resolve, crimps can be great, solder can be great, if done correctly for the job at hand. for joints like shown at the start of the video, we would solder thetip of the wirescrimp then secure the end of the soldered tip with solder, leaving the back end crimped, but then we would heat shrink to add a strain relief at the back even if it wasnt really needed, the main reason, we had seen units where vibration caused the wires to work out of both crimp and crimp/solder joints either breaking off at the crimp, or pulling out as outter strands broke, one of the guys suggested a strain relief and...we tested , in the end, we would shrink the back of each crimp then the whole bundle would get heat-shrink bound hear each plug (if not the full length of the wires), for some jobs we even changed from the standard kinds of pins used, to much more robust heavier connections (example from a 4pin pwm style header to a full 4 pin molex connector as an interlink with molded ends(made at our shop, 2 little gals made them so fast it took 3 testers for each of them to sort-of keep up.. testing required them plugging the cables in, and leaving them under load for a set time, if the lights turned green the cables were good, it if was orange or red, the cables were not up to spec) what our old boss always said was, "do what works, even if it goes against conventional wisdom, just make sure it actually works" , we once got paid to rebuild an old military vehicle that was going into a museum, the electronics where...wrecked... he used pure copper to replaced the aluminum power buss rails that were... in horrible shape... the thing used an early form of breakers, that actually had a modern drop-in-replacement, that looked close enough for the client, took us 2 months to fully restore the electronics including having some old vets who worked on them back in the day, come and consult(help) get things as close to original as possible... very weird machine... sort of a mobile command/control thing that apparently wasnt widely used but was one of those projects that with some extra dev could have been actually useful for deployment overseas in numbers but had some...flaws like the alum power bus that would overheat if stressed too hard.. apparently a couple units had the box catch fire due to that design flaw...their fix was to replace the buss with..copper rods they flattened with a press just enough to fit... we actually pressed them milled and made them match the original rails shape, they also showed us that there were mount points to put all the wires in conduits rather then strapped up like they had been from the factory and any used much for training or anything like that would have had that change made, in the end, the client was very happy, since by the time we were done it ran and all the crap inside worked again... even if we replaced some of the old lights with newer longer lived alternatives,

[@neilkurzman4907]

It is well known that solder wicked in to stranded wire makes more susceptible to vibration cracking. This of course will be worse in high vibrations environments. Like motorsports, military vehicles and airplanes. The cracking could take a long time to actually take place it doesn’t happen immediately.

[@KrazeeCain]

This has to be a motorsport thing. (extra vibrations?) I recently started working for a local shop that specializes in automotive electrical repair, and I asked the most experienced mechanic there about this topic. In his 40 years of experience, he claimed that he has never had a customer come back with an issue related to a soldering repair, as long as the wire wasn't flapping in the wind and heatshrink tubing was used after.

[@hpa101]

We're not stating that a soldered connection will 100% fail, as covered, we're stating it adds and extra layer of risk that is avoided in a motorsports application. Just because you solder doesn't mean your loom will fall apart, just because you crimp doesn't mean it is indestructible nor is either method the only consideration for a reliable connection 🤘

[@brocluno01]

Reliability measured over what time base? Soldered wires in low vibration environments last for decades. So that is bundled wires that do not bend or flex. Especially in marine environments where crevice corrosion is especially prevalent.

[@neilkurzman4907]

The speaker here is specifically talking about motorsports. I think that would be considered a high vibration environment. For low vibration environments, and applications where the wire cannot flex solder would be an acceptable choice. Another advantage of cramping is it requires less skill than soldering does.

[@Quacks0]

I always solder my wires and connectors whenever possible; it;s the most permanent and reliable way to make a solid bond without corrosion getting into the joint

[@hpa101]

Except solder is only resistant to corrosion, not immune, so you should be checking the way you are sealing your connections crimped or soldered if you have had corrosion issues - Taz.

[@Quacks0]

@@hpa101 Hello, Taz; nice to make your acquaintance. I was referring to ordinary household and auto-related wiring; I do not know what you applications are, so perhaps corrosion is more of an issue for you. I just know that crimp connections often fail because they are merely mechanical joints, whereas a soldered joint is chemically/molecularity bonded and permanent.

[@Kj16V]

I see a lot of black and white, Either/Or arguments for and against soldering and crimping in the comments. The truth is BOTH are suitable for automotive and aero applications. Both crimps AND solder joints can corrode if not sealed. Both will last for decades if formed correctly and protected against vibration and harsh environments. It's totally down to the individual situation. I suspect the automotive industry's choice to crimp over solder is more to do with time, than long term durability. Forming a good solder joint and heatshrinking and/or potting it, is time-consuming compared to crimping. So it makes sense for manufacturers to crimp everything, with special tools for each different type of crimp. Whereas for DIY builders and small tuners, having all the correct crimp tools for all the types of crimps can cost a fortune. For example, certain types of crimp tools you come across in the aero and racing industries can cost £600-upwards each. If you don't have that sort of budget you're more likely to use a different type of connection and solder. I personally both solder and crimp depending on the individual situation. For example, if I need to splice wires together into a neat harness, so that it can be routed through grommets and bulkheads, I will solder and seal with glue-lined heatshrink. Because crimping, while faster, makes bulky connections that will probably snag on something when being routed around an engine bay and rip apart! Also, sometimes, if I haven't got the right tool for a certain crimp, I'll sometimes crimp with what I've got and then solder the wire to the crimp as well, to make sure it can't work loose,

[@luketravis2553]

Ive found failures and corrosion in all types of connections done by highly skilled people nothing is perfect

[@hpa101]

100%, there are pros and cons for everything, and failures do happen. With the decision here it is merely trying to mitigate some risk of failure rather than stating that one option or the other will never fail, ever. That said, all things being correct with your connection generally there is a root cause of failure which is often something that was overlooked as part of the strain relief, routing, connector choice for application etc etc. There is more to it all than this single topic - Taz.

[@jonesgang]

Take it a step further and crimp and solder. Applying just enough solder at the crimp to bond the ends of the individual strands to the connector. Yes it may seem redundant but it also depends on how clean of a signal do you want.

[@hpa101]

If you're crimping correctly you will have no signal issues and will not need solder. If you're soldering correctly (if that's your choice) you do not need to also crimp. One or the other is sufficient. To do both is just adding unnecessary risk and time - Taz.

[@jonesgang]

@@hpa101 I take it your expertise ends with engines. Mine comes from some very high tech companies where signal integrity is of the utmost importance. There is absolutely nothing in a engine that requires that level of connectivity or signal integrity. But by all means ride that horse high!!

[@rimmersbryggeri]

Solder sleeves are very unreliable though because the low temprature solder in them doesnt wick well.

[@thehappytexan]

For those of us lucky enough to use the specialty crimpers that are quite expensive, the choice between solder or crimping is easy. Having the proper tools to pin out your own connectors is really nice but super expensive for a hobbyist.

[@hpa101]

That is a common misconception. A quality soldering iron will cost more than Andres 'go-to' crimpers. When you're dealing with the likes of Autosport connectors then yes, the price does get up there, but when a connector alone at that level can be $500 it's all relative. Check out this article, I think you will enjoy it: www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/ - Taz.

[@nanab256]

@@hpa101 $20 soldering iron is good enough to proper soldering. Show me working crimping tool in this price.

[@VinnyXL420]

Its all true, but theres another exception, when dealing with large cables, that need large cable terminals like the starter feed cable or alternator positive cable, it is a good idea to first crimp the wire in the terminal and then apply solder to seal it from the elements, that prevents corrosion in the terminal, and the bigger cables are less susceptible to that copper fatigue failure simon described, and they are easier to secure properly.

[@markphilpot4981]

Obviously there are opinions on this and they may run the gamut. Most soldering methods may be failure prone, but soldering to DOD STD 2000-1 does not fall into that category. The methodology of this level of soldering is equivalent to level 3 of the new J STD of today. I was an avionics tech in the Air National Guard and I can say with great confidence that the soldering I did was of the highest quality. Methods matter, solder and flux quality matters and the equipment you use matters greatly. Soldering to this high standard allowed the solder joints to endure G forces, mechanical and physical stresses and thermal inversions without failure. When someone or some crew’s life depends on your work quality, there is no failure option available. It is an extremist ideal and compromise is not a consideration. Whether you crimp or solder, methods matter. No compromise is the rule and there are no exceptions as human life is on the line so your work is never to be less than exemplary. People don’t ordinarily operate under such scrutiny, but this is about high reliability and high quality. Passion for the work must be beyond question. I only use mil spec tools to do crimping ops. To do otherwise is a compromise of work quality. You have this passion for your work and I’ll bet you aren’t using any box store tools to accomplish your work. I believe others will say uglies and poo poo what you are saying. They aren’t working products at your level. Let the haters rant! I believe in the highest level of quality and reliability and only that level will do. What others do is their problem. I admire your level! Bravo sir!

[@josephbusby4625]

Need to look into low temp solder joints. Cummins is swapping to this method. According to them it is the best of both world and the most reliable wire to wire/ wire to terminal connection.

[@hpa101]

Throw us some documentation from Cummins on this, always interested to read from the source. Who knows in a few years maybe both soldering and crimping will be obsolete, things do change eh! - Taz.

[@josephbusby4625]

Hey Taz, I couldn't link the service information off of quickserve since you would need a profile to access the information threw the training offered by cummins but I found a video on YT discussing the same low temp connectors. m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/rnSuZHqHf9-rbZY If you do have access to cummins quick serve let me know and I can get you the link to view threw email.

[@josephbusby4625]

I forgot to add that this process is also offered for terminals.

[@hpa101]

@@josephbusby4625 cheers for sharing that video mate, I'll take a look after work today. We don't have Quick Serve access sadly, would have been interesting to see what the pros and cons were for them for their large application but appreciate that YT link :D - Taz.

[@blackbirdsr71]

I work in underground drilling on large 200ton transport trucks. After the trucks were a year old there was a lot of electrical problems because the French manufacturer used too small cross section wires and they all broke where they flex. The factory solution was to cut all the wires where they were moving and solder on larger stronger cable. This was about 30 cables on 8 trucks. Within 6 weeks many of the joints were fractured again because of vibration. Eventually every single one fractured. They all had to be done again with crimps and has never been a problem since, after circa 10khrs work.

[@hpa101]

Ouch, that is a lot of downtime for a vehicle of that type. Expensive. Glad you guys got it sorted in the end either way. It's tricky when you get instructions like that from OEM techs as there isn't the allowance for deviations if you want to have their continued support, even if you were making improvements to their solution via extra strain relief etc. Other than something like this which is a factory design fault, what are some of the main recurring issues you get on vehicles of this type/usage out of interest? - Taz.

[@blackbirdsr71]

@@hpa101 Yes, each truck was 1.1million euro and they caused a lot of downtime for four 20 million euro tunnel boring machines which they transport concrete to, so the costs of small broken wires can turn massive very quickly! The whole issue was dealt with under warranty by the manufacturer since it was blatantly a design failure of their's. The first attempted repair was of their own decision and they sent technicians to perform it. Also eventually the second round of repairs. The rest of the electrical hardware installation of these machines was also very dissapointing. Extremely basic thethering, protection and strain releif over the whole loom in general. They are 45m long with 9 axels and 4 seperate chassis with all wheels steering, steering drawbars and laser guidance. The 0.5deg increment steering angle sensors on each wheel and drawbar is where most of the fractures occured since the constant moving of suspension and general vibration would work harden and fracture the wires. Also the acidic type of water in the underground enviorment would attack, penetrate and corrode any miniscule fracture in cable insulation or tiny defect in a sensor. It is attracted to current. Yes we regularly improved the setup as we went to improve relability. The software system was exellent on these. Every sensor on the whole machine can be accessed in real time on a touch screen providing angle, speed, voltage, resistance, tempature, fault diagnosis, location diagrams, of all engine, hydraulic pump, hydraulic system and electrical system, avaliable in both cabs. It is the electrical hardware feeding all of this was the let-down. The hydraulic system was well designed in concept but again poorly installed on the machine and caused a lot of frayed and burst hoses mostly, which are basic repairs ,but messy and time consuming. Also the huge pressure on all the complicated suspension and steering joints along with the intense corrosion, needed a lot of repairs. I was informed not long after that the 'electrical & hydraulic hardware department' head engineer who was responsible for all of this was fired!

[@phillyphil1513]

re: "Within 6 weeks many of the joints were fractured again because of vibration. Eventually every single one fractured." yup, and the vibration is not just from the work being performed but also the added vibration of the Diesel combustion cycle (people underestimate it's impact). i've seen that exact "thin wire" problem too, thin and Diesel DO NOT MIX as the hour meters and odometers rack up.

[@snap-off5383]

Within 6 weeks many of the joints were fractured again because of *failure to rectify vibration at the joint*. I bet strain relief was on their mind the 2nd time around.

[@blackbirdsr71]

@@snap-off5383 it was! It was a dissapointing afair all round. Compared to high quality manufactured plant like Volvo and CAT who have incredibly well thought out and strenghtened harness systems. Those machines can do 20 years/20k hours service with almost (98% of the time) no electrical problems at all.

[@gabrielecossettini2923]

D9 connectors exists even in crimpable version. Waay to practical to wire when you have all 9 wires connected ti them. Used in my job for railway MVB applications

[@allothernamesbutthis]

D9's you can get crimp versions, i think TE?

[@slip0n0fall]

Dude you should look into DMC M22520/2-01 DSUB crimpers - haven't soldered a DSUB in years. MIL-DTL-24308 pins are 20 or 22AWG depending on shell size but the crimpers can be adjusted to crimp down to smaller AWG wire inserted into the contacts.

[@Jon.S]

What do you use/recommend for the rear of buttons/switches? These tend to have very small terminals and aren’t really designed for terminals to attach to I don’t think? I normally solder to these however if there’s an alternative I’m not aware of would be cool to know.

[@hpa101]

The likes of the popular Otto buttons do require solder. You can then add a heat moulded boot for strain relief. Depending on the specific switch arrangement it may be possible to pot the back too - Andre

[@1Longranger]

Agree crimping is generally better for reasons outlined. The exception is in marine environments where if salt water does penetrate, (it shouldn't!) a soldered joint will be superior.

[@hpa101]

Solder is more resistant to corrosion by comparison, it is not immune to it, and it is a result of poor insulation for the application and not the fault of the connection method. if you find you have water getting into your soldered or crimped connections then you need to look at your materials, tools and techniques to find which one or combination is letting you down imo, marine application or otherwise - Taz.

[@1Longranger]

I have in the past both crimped and soldered connections and lugs in small boats. While connections are always encapsulated you would be surprised how well saltwater can penetrate. That will make for a high resistance joint in no time! One thing that is a big no-no is tinning cable ends going into screwed connections. Also, if soldering, the use of zinc chloride or acidic fluxes are forbidden for obvious reasons. For automotive use crimping only has served me well. Great informative channel! Thanks.

[@drakinfpv9629]

It's there a reason not to use crimp style d9 connectors?

[@michaelwaterhouse2763]

Invaluable information! Thank you for sharing!

[@hpa101]

Glad you enjoyed it Michael, cheers for the comment - Taz.

[@deirdrehbrt]

The problem with soldered splices is that many people don't know how to do them, and there is huge variability in workmanship. Crimps do prevent this. However, soldered splicing has been used in many applications from telephone systems to spacecraft. The Western Union splice, and the lashed splice are both well-known, reliable, and accepted methods for joining wires that are approved by NASA. But it takes a LOT longer to learn how to properly solder a splice terminal than it does to learn to crimp one.

[@bira896]

When I worked in the defense industry, the most reliable pin connecions were always crimped and THEN soldered. Crimp MUST occur first, then soldered.

[@BenS12510]

When done correctly (good crimp with no wicking up the wire beyond the terminal) this combines the best advantages of both methods. This is what I use in high corrosion environments like marine applications, or any other instances where failures can have "life or death" type serious ramifications. It takes longer to do right, but thats a small price to pay.

[@bira896]

@@BenS12510 Absolutely! Always used heat sink to prevent wicking.

[@the_kombinator]

I solder EVERYTHING in my cars. No issues for over 20 years (one on a car that I have had for 15 years). I tend to keep movement to a minimum, similarly to how you've done your epoxy filling. Crimps always corrode - especially underhood. I've seen way more broken crimps than failed solder points. What I do in that case is crimp, then solder into there, and then heat shrink tubing on top of that.

[@hpa101]

If your crimps are failing you are not doing them correctly. You don't need to crimp and solder, one or the other is fine if either method is done correctly. There are 2 other points I will add. 1.) Soldering will not fail straight away or explode just because it is solder. A soldered connection might never fail for you, but as discussed, it has a higher risk of failure when compared to a crimped connection (when both are done correctly) which is why it is avoided in motorsports where possible. 2.) Soldered connections are not immune to corrosion, just a more resistant. If done correctly though, a crimp nor a soldered connection will corrode within the life of a vehicle. Only when something is done incorrectly will this be an issue, and that is not the fault of your preferred connection method whichever it is 🤘 - Taz.

[@the_kombinator]

@@hpa101 Rock on! I meant to say, I deal with a lot of used cars, and in the past when I was driving bangers, they were questionably wired. Crimps on those cars failed much more often than solder joints, wires all green or even black due to corrosion, but yeah, I seem to recall quite poor connections to begin with - LOTS of exposed wire, crimps seemingly done with pliers... I'm still a fan of a good solder joint though, especially on the outside wiring of the vehicle. Perhaps I'm seeing more failures in the crimp domain as any Tom, Dick, and Harry can go to Wal-Mart and buy crimps - they're just more accessible. You have *perhaps* swayed me to use crimps inside the passenger cabin of the car ;)

[@hpa101]

Ahh yes, so crimps done with pilers are going to have multiple issues for sure, but also I couldn't imagine someone who is so unmotivated that they half-ass things to that extreme with crimping to do much better when it comes to soldering to be honest haha When we're talking about crimping, we're certainly not talking about that level of work, and when done correctly your work will even be better than what is done by the OEM which is generally immensely satisfying, although depending on the OEM it's also sometimes not that hard...😂 At the end of the day both crimping and soldering have their pros and cons so it's not really a case of using one or the other for everything, it's just a matter of understanding the how to take advantage of the right method in the right place, and unless you have standards set by an employer which make this decision for you, it really is a personal choice. If you want to get started with crimping at all then you might find this a solid help: www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/ Sorry for the massive reply, but cheers for the discussion dude! Happy wiring 😎 - Taz.

[@the_kombinator]

@@hpa101 Thanks for the link - I DO have cars modern enough to have those kinds of connectors, and I have had fun times popping individual wires out of them in the past to find... all sorts of unpleasantries. Always good to familiarize yourself with the enemy :P

[@entritur]

You solder devices to a rigid substrate and crimp connections in a vibration intense environment. Even in computers any connection that requires a wire will have a crimped connector (24 pin ATX connector, 4, 6, and 8 pin connectors) and the mounted connector will be soldered unless the mated connector itself is also on a wire. right tool, right job.

[@henkmeiring01]

With many cheap Chinese motorbikes soldering all connections makes bike trouble-free.Actually are surprised that connectors are still used in vehicles and appliances.Very few are good quality. Same with computer(cat 5 and 6).Asked my boss why cables wont be problem free if soldered directly.His answer: another solder joint creates unnecesary resistance.Doesnt makes sense because inside connectors are actually two solder points.Which you will eliminate.Same with switches,patch pannels,etc.

[@thirteen12]

I wish I asked this earlier, is crimping still preferable for splicing aftermarket fuel pump wires into factory connections? I got ratcheting crimpers w/ the correct jaws for nylon heat shrink connectors. Seems good, right?

[@beboba2498]

Nothing can beat twisted, soldered and heatshrinked wires

[@daynejordan6783]

Crimp first, then solder and cover with the proper size shrink wrap. Been doing it in drag race cars forever. Haven’t had a failure yet. Vibration on crimp only is a real problem. Vibration on solder only is a real problem. You need both for Off-road and drag vehicles which should always have a crimped, soldered and shrink wrapped connection. Yes it takes longer. Yes it is the best way. Yes it costs more. Yes it’s safer. Don’t try to change my mind.

[@averyalexander2303]

My experiences have been the exact opposite. The only failures I have seen have been crimp connectors, I can't say I have ever seen a solder connection fail. I think with the tools and equipment the average backyard mechanic has it's much easier to get a good solder connection than a good crimp connection. Not disputing your points as you are way more knowledgeable than me, just adding my experience.

[@SteveWrightNZ]

Great tech content, good work.

[@jhaedtler]

In aviation they don't like to solder. It will cause a break point due to the vibration. Much like the early tig welded steel tube. The break happens right at the point where the heat stopped! So if it in a vibration area crimp it!

[@leso204]

Learned from an old school fitter do a line mans splice and solder 'Tag' only the ends & tape over' shrink fit is now the modern way ....................

[@hpa101]

We were all riding horses and had no need to do soldering on them at some old school stage too. Tools, materials and technology changes with time. All we are explaining is what is done in the motorsports industry and why, you are free to do what you see fit outside of that of course :) - Taz.

[@adamcarver9057]

So what if you do both, is there a downside to crimping and soldering?

[@hpa101]

Yes, both crimping and soldering have their own pros and cons. When you do both, you get all the cons from both making it a waste of time. Crimp or solder, it's up to you, ,just do whatever you choose to do correctly, and if you don't trust yourself to do either correctly, get some practice, the right tools or consider having a trusted professional do that part of things for you to be safe - Taz.

[@adamcarver9057]

​@@hpa101 Just the cons? Well I'm making a new harness for a onewheel and the connectors and choice of wire don't match thanks to FM. They are going from 0194180030 to GHR-06V-S and GHR-04V-S using 26awg. The smallest wire that 0194180030 will take is 22. So that is why I asked that type of question.

[@einfelder8262]

For the average joe the problem with crimping is the upfront cost of buying the right tools to do a proper crimp, not to mention the issue of training in which tool to use for which connector type. It's a lot easier to solder a connection even if it will fail in 7 years.

[@hpa101]

In the past that was true, but times have changed. A quality soldering iron will set you back the same if not more than some good entry level crimpers (that are not absolute crap). Andres most used crimp tool is $60 USD for example. You might enjoy this: www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/ That said, if someone wants to to everything as absolutely cheaply as possible, whether they solder or crimp is going to be the least of their worries - Taz.

[@einfelder8262]

@@hpa101 Most average people will have a $15 soldering iron, and a $15 crimp tool, and no real idea or training in either disciplines. Buying a $60 crimp tool will be too much for most, especially since one tool will not fit all crimp needs. Then there are some who have all the gear and no idea.

[@hpa101]

Most average people just don't know better yet, and if their main driver is to do things as cheap as possible, no matter if they go for those horrible crimpers or soldering gear, the results are going to be average at best. Even on a tight budget you can find good gear secondhand if you're cheap but not too lazy to look for it. I fit into this camp personally haha There is no reason to encourage or ignore people who you know can do something better and it is awesome to see people make leaps and bounds in their skillset, and tools, which dramatically change their enjoyment and results with much more than just wiring - Taz.

[@trevorvanbremen4718]

Andre, in case you're unaware, there ARE D9 connectors available that use individual crimp pins rather than the solder cup version you refer to. Edit: Here's some examples: www.digikey.co.nz/product-detail/en/cinch-connectivity-solutions/DEUH-9S/116-1027-ND/1278715 www.digikey.co.nz/product-detail/en/cinch-connectivity-solutions/DEUH-9P/116-1025-ND/1278713

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

Not mentioned in this video though crimped joints are less conductive than soldered joints, I've measured 365% more resistivity.

[@hpa101]

Because the difference is irrelevant to a 12v system. No offence to your unknown testing methods/quality, but there already is a TON of proper testing/research on resistance when it comes to crimping and soldering. There can also be a ton of variation depending on exactly what is being compared (different types of solder etc). Information for things like this is readily available for those working on applications outside of what we are discussing here that need it, or even just out of interest 😎 - Taz.

[@LockyourHubs4WDing]

@@hpa101 4 wire testing method (Kelvin Connection) on an sb50 connector using 1volt@2A. Hydraulic hex crimp vs 60/40 solder. Average of three samples to access st dev etc. What I haven't found (you may be able to provide a link?) is any decent data about vibration tolerance, tensile strength and corrosion resistance especially when double walled glue lines heat shrink is used.

[@TheBudgetTechnician]

My problem with crimping is that I can't find a good source for OEM pins for most of the vehicles that I want to build harnesses for, so I'm stuck cutting and soldering

[@TheBudgetTechnician]

Though if I were to pot sensors like you show, I could get around needing OE pins

[@hpa101]

Yes, that can be tricky, especially if you're working with a wide range of them and in a professional capacity. For your own projects, you can sometimes salvage connectors (remembering some that have seen 20 years of use and countless heat cycles aren't want you're after) or with a bit of time searching you can generally find what you're after as someone out there always knows something you don't - Taz. I'd check out this list here: www.hpacademy.com/forum/efi-wiring-fundamentals/show/wiring-and-accessories-suppliers-list? And this FB group: facebook.com/groups/4359499570789592/

[@TheBudgetTechnician]

@@hpa101 one of my projects actually has almost 35 years on the connectors, but the good news on it is that because it's a motorcycle and carbureted, only a couple connections will need to stay the same, and I may just pot them like you showed, but the rest of the connectors where sub-harnesses will connector together, I plan to swap with newer weather pack style connectors. Now my speed 6 is a different story. I may be able to get new short chord harnesses on some stuff from work (Mazda Senior tech here) but would definitely be better if I could find a supplier for new OEM pins and connectors. I'll definitely check those links. Can you guys make a video/article or point me to one on how to identify who manufactures connectors? I assume knowing who makes a particular connector would definitely make finding replacements connectors or pins easier lol

[@9HighFlyer9]

"no matter your technique solder will fail" then proceeds to give techniques where solder apparently doesn't fail. Aviation uses both crimps and soldering. Both have their place when done correctly.

[@hpa101]

Will fail first when compared to a crimp in the same situation* It is then explained how you can mitigate the risk when soldering is unavoidable. So essentially your last sentence = this video, with the reasons around where and why you might choose one over the other... -- Taz.

[@9HighFlyer9]

@@hpa101 fair enough. I prefer soldering despite the apparent drawbacks. If wicking is that much of a problem for you I suggest you change technique or tools. On the flip side, I suppose crimping would also work better for me with appropriate crimpers or at least reading the datasheet for the connector. I still disagree that a soldered joint fails before a crimped connection. I have seen plenty of crimped connections wiggle loose but can't recall a solder joint just falling apart. In either case though the conductor is the most like failure point and for the same reasons.

[@hpa101]

For sure, we're not telling you to change anything you're doing, you can do what you like armed with this and any other knowledge you pick up in life. We're just talking about what is done in a professional motorsports environment to mitigate risk and why. You can disagree with that for sure, but it won't change that industries reasonings or their practices - Taz.

[@sarowie]

There are crimp D-Sub 9 Connectors. A D-Sub 9 crimp pin is individually turned, get crimped with a special tool, then placed in the connector housing. Yeah, they are expensive, but... when did that ever stop you from doing it right?

[@matthewberry1738]

Which method is better in terms of conductivity?

[@gregwarner3753]

When I built a car I mechanicaly crimped the connectors on the wires then made the electrical connection with electrical soft solder. I did not go to the additional trouble he illustrated. I followed the instructions I Wire to Win by Caroll Smith.

[@hpa101]

Nice one Greg and interesting man. Things have progressed a bit as they do with time: www.hpacademy.com/blog/what-goes-into-a-motogp-formula-1-wrc-or-formula-e-wiring-harness-tech-talk/ - Taz.

[@thomasmuir5653]

Crip v solder... I think you called it, use the correct tools, with the proper technique. People like cripping because it’s easy, and reliable. Soldering is an art, and it takes years to get good. But if you want better solder connections use pace temp sensing irons. I’d also recommend using 63/37 solder, the melting point is 361 degrees, thus giving you more working time before you heat damage sensitive components.

[@mileopen2298]

Best tool? Cheapest soldering iron, cheapest tin and no flux.

[@sparqqling]

Better a cheap soldering iron then a cheap crimping tool. Most people don't have access to decent crimping tools, they cost a fortune. Better solder than using low end crimping tools.

[@tcollogan]

here a question i have a Toyota echo ecu header plug chopped off a factory ecu board and a flying loom dropped on me by a friend half soldered to the back of plug pins should I disorder and cream in how should I go about getting my pulling into the back of plug

[@Tater4200]

im good... ill continue sauldring with heat shrink..have NEVER has a problem... use wet flux...doesnt take much heat at all.,

[@knubrx7smith524]

Love the FD ROTARY motor in there 😁

[@kaosinc]

How about crimp then solder the connection? I would trust that more.

[@hpa101]

You're not crimping or soldering correctly if you need to do both. For motorsports applications you're also just introducing risk for no reason by adding that solder. Even if you are for some reason a die hard 'solder till the death' type of guy, just one method is sufficient - Taz.

[@stmounts]

The soldering technique at 2:05 shows why crimping is best for people who DON'T know how to solder! For a start, you heat up the joint FIRST, then apply the solder - you don't carry solder using the iron tip. The joint should be mechanically stable BEFORE soldering i.e. twisted by several turns so it is already fixed BEFORE soldering. You also should use heatshnink over the whole joint, a few cm each side for strain relief. Solder wicking means the flexible wires are made solid a few mm away from the joint. So what is a crimped connector?? A solid connector at the point where it is clamped!!! No fucking difference!! Crimping is easy for mechanics etc., but soldering requires a different expertise to get right, so many don't get it right. Why are all electronic circuit board connections made with solder??? Because it works if you know how to do it right! Disclaimer: Crimp connectors are great for auto applications, I use 'em too when appropriate - just don't blame failures with solderd joints on anything but your own inexperience!!!

[@gothicpagan.666]

Good advice as always, it would seem👌 All high end automotive connectors are what is essentially low grade avionics looming. You don't want to know what the hight end stuff costs, and it's totally unessasary for a ground based application. Biggest problems I see are cheap Chinese made items. One unit might be perfect the next a total joke.

[@hpa101]

Yes costs can escalate quickly, but with the amount of money that goes into some vehicles it is justified at certain levels of motorsport. There is no excuse to have a wiring failure take you out of a race when you account for all of the costs associated with getting on track in the first place. That said, for those of us not working in the motorsport industry at those levels there are still plenty of options that won't break the bank and still give better results than OEM when modifying your car from a road to race application - Taz.

[@stickyfox]

It costs about $3000 to get certified in space applications hand soldering. Some people do not pass the workmanship exam on their first try. But when you learn how to do it properly, your work is good enough to be used in missiles and SpaceX rockets. The cost, and the skill required, would be my guess as to why it's not popular. People think a soldering iron is like a screwdriver or a hammer. You don't just buy it and solder like a pro. Welders have to be certified too, but people often overlook that skill is involved. The ECU in that race car is held together with solder. You wouldn't hire a guy off craigslist to weld your roll cage on, so why trust a hack to solder your taillight wires?

[@hpa101]

Good luck trying to crimp an ECU together if that's what you're trying to suggest 😂 Soldering on PCB's etc has its own drawbacks and advantages, and is not what we are talking about here. As for motorsports, even with a limitless budget crimping is the way. Why it isn't in other applications I cannot say as they are different industries with different requirements. At the end of the day it is your choice what you personally use on your own projects armed with the knowledge of the pros and cons of both tools/techniques - Taz. www.hpacademy.com/blog/what-goes-into-a-motogp-formula-1-wrc-or-formula-e-wiring-harness-tech-talk/

[@stickyfox]

@@hpa101 Well, what I mean to say is that generally speaking, crimps are not inherently more reliable than solder for any particular reason. When done properly with materials appropriate for the application, both are viable. Both a crimp and a solder joint create potential failure points, in different ways. I'm an IPC CIT in WHMA-620S and J-STD-001S. The "extreme conditions" of launch and orbital flight are largely comparable to those of motorsports applications. Lots of mechanics are aware that welding is only reliable when done correctly, but fewer people outside the electronics manufacturing industry are aware that similar certifications exist for soldering and crimping. You have a beautiful shop btw!

[@luminousfractal420]

Carefull with the two part epoxy. Ive used it in low power circuits and had it reliquify slightly due to the voltage. Solid with a lump of goo in the middle.

[@TotanDas1991]

its takes a lot of effort to solder especially for thiker wires when a similar result can be achieved by crimping ...

[@paulcharman44]

Another point missed with soldering is the change in the mechanical properties of the crimp. When formed from a strip of brass or whatever, the crimping process imparts mechanical properties that determine among other things the interface conditions between the pin and the socket, this gives the correct conditions for the minimum electrical resistance etc. Soldering changes these and can lead to a loose connector. Correct crimping is the way to go.

[@kevinburroughs3826]

And I wonder why they call it cold welding. 😯😯😯