The Gaming Industry Needs to Learn from Wayfinder Echoes!

Wayfinder is a failed MMO which relaunched as a singleplayer ARPG, this is an intriguing way to save a game without a playerbase or development budget.
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[@sir_snarf]

Thank you for checking out the game and sharing our story, we are pretty proud of what we've accomplished. We know it's not perfect for everyone, but it's our best shot at making lemonade, and we think it's a pretty cool precedent for the industry!

[@Tenkiei]

I honestly hope more developers in a similar situation try their hand at making lemonade. I'm a big fan of games being around & continuing to be played as opposed to disappearing forever.

[@Fazeshyft]

I turned my nose up at the initial Trainwreck around Wayfinder, but when I heard the news of what they planned, I got excited. It's not even my cup of tea as gameplay loops go. But I spent the $25, and it's honestly incredible. It's got the cozy feel of online games of its ilk without the load times, latency, and awkward interactions.

[@user-kc9pp3fj4x]

So its a new cup of tea for you? :)

[@Fazeshyft]

@@user-kc9pp3fj4x Yeah, you could say that! :D

[@notstylekatarn]

Picked up the game due to the Echoes relaunch, and I've been super into it! Really hoping this does well for Airship Syndicate, as I'd love to see more done with the game.

[@Tenkiei]

I hope so too. I'd always rather a game succeed, and it very much feels like Airship Syndicate has done a good job of making the best out of a shit situation. If Echoes finds success I'll be interested to see what they add in the future.

[@neobscura]

Same I was interested in the game before the initial launch and gave it a pass once I saw all the MMO downsides. I bought it with echoes and so far, pretty good game. I don't know if I'll play it for long but so far good experience and respect for the gamedevs to sticking to their guns.

[@Nersius]

Gameplay looks like a sick cross between Darksiders and Borderlands. Can't wait for it to leave early access.

[@Straggler8]

Every time I see this game I think about Wildstar - god damn, I'd love to see this game making a comeback :(

[@Tenkiei]

TBH I missed the wildstar hype train (I was very into WoW at the time) but I did hear good things about the boss fights from people who played.

[@Straggler8]

@@Tenkiei Yeah, it was great, however it was the game's demise as well - fights were incredibly hard and demanding, you also had to attune to every dungeon and raids which took ages. But game's humour was fantastic - it was laughing from many MMO's choirs via easter eggs etc. And housing was incredibly fun as well - similar to WoD's Garrisons, but done as it should be

[@Tenkiei]

Makes sense, while people do like extremely difficult/demanding games (see Elden Ring), I don't see that working in a MMO. Difficult games work because you know it's just you and the boss, you only have yourself to blame. I expect things probably got pretty toxic with people blaming newer players & pushing them away. Especially if there's mandatory time-gating such as attunement.

[@JayPee6445]

If only we could go back in time. I loved Wildstar, had such a blast playing that game. Good times... good times :')

[@neobscura]

Funny you mention it because I think a lot of it lies on the art direction but I get Wildstar vibes when playing it, and it's both a bit sad (for wildstar) and a good feeling for Wayfinder. Especially since it's solo and I know I won't suddenly lose access.

[@IronBrutzler]

Saw the update and sale on Steam on Release day, then checked Twitch and saw that the Devs/Community manager is doing a livestream and saw how good the game is now. Really love that they made it offline/coop game. But i also have to say they have to do way more promoting of the game and do livestream so more people see that the game has change. Most people still think that it is a failed mmo. For me it is the perfect mix of Diablo/borderland and Genshin/ wuthering Wave as a solo/coop game.

[@Mizerableklaha]

I'm playing this with a friend and we are having a blast. We reached the endgame and have now started levelling the other Wayfinders and trying different builds and weapons. I hope more people give this gem a chance and spread the word around.

[@BasementMinions]

Super happy to see this!

[@Beldhan]

i'm one of the founder and honestly echoes was the best result possible with the situation wayfinder was into. honestly it's a small miracle at this point. instead to go grow the number of failed project we have something that have the potential to become really good. because yes the game is doable in solo.... but you can do the whole thing in coop too. and it work... they are really open about what is coming for the 1.0 and everything they are working and want to work on. and personally i hope they can develop more the game... the world is really interesting and i want to see more, see more wayfinder, see more weapon, see more of the story. it's not for everyone, that a given... no game is for everybody. but it's game that deserve to get a second chance with echoes, especially with a price soo low. you can get tons of hours if you try to level up all the 7 wayfinder or awaken all the weapon, get all armor or special cosmetic. plus we know that a 8th wayfinder, a new overworld area, more weapon, more boss are coming and new mods too.... honestly... echoes is good.

[@Juice8767]

I’m stoked because I love Airship syndicates games (darksiders genesis being my favorite) and I don’t like live service games. I bought in shortly after launch so I can jump in whenever I like but I’m waiting for the 1.0 update. Until then I will click on any Wayfinder video that pops up on KZbin to sing Airship’s praises for rolling up their sleeves and putting the work into making the best out of their situation.

[@Celdoir]

I bought the $25 starter pack to get access a bit early. I liked it but was waiting for it to hit its stride. It never did, as you outlined. Now I'm super excited for the single player revamp. I bought it on ps5, so I'm excited for its eventual release on consoles this fall.

[@burnedraventales6030]

Its really good to see its doing better, I kind of wish wildstar could have been treated similarly

[@moriakpotato]

I've been playing single player for the past couple of days and I'm having fun. I'm glad that they did not abandon it and made it into what it is now.

[@catniptrip884]

well, I had Wayfinder on my Wishlist for some time but refrained from buying it. Then I picked up on the story that went down as already you explained in your video. Of course we don't know how this will end but I hold some respect for the devs for at least trying. Then I watched a interview with one of the Devs and Asmon. (if you already did watch it yourself, you get a few impressions on the situation) I bought Wayfinder echoes. I like it. It's fun. If the game closes down for good it will be 22-25€. Which is okay. But I need to find people to play because it makes little to no sense running around solo... oh well you can of course, nothing wrong with that. The experience for early access is fine in my book. Tbh the take away lesson here might be: We as players should be aware of shady business practices. I think the industry as a whole lost a lot of credibility. I really think people should, this includes myself, stop playing in order to gain perspective on what a game should be. With what kind of people do you like to do business or even play? The kind of people we consider sincere. This is the fundament of human interaction within a society. In real live we avoid people who rip us off repeatedly in a sense "take it and begone, then never again". Conduct your businesses, even your free time, hobbies etc, with principles. Or else we will only have games with predatory business models as it is right now. And remember, corrupt things usually cannot be saved but you can only let them go and start from scratch. Thanks for the video.

[@CreepyRecordings]

I only wanted to play this because it was an MMORPG because I main mmos. the being a single player doesn't even worth me picking it up not even for free.

[@GlitchedVision]

I plan to pick this up at some point soon. I love what they're doing here. Capcom did something similar with Mega Man X Dive Offline so it isn't quite the first time this has happened but I support it every time it does. I may not always grab these games as they aren't always my style but I always spread them to everyone.

[@Tenkiei]

Agreed, I'd love to see this happen more. It's sad when a game shuts down and disappears forever. I'd much rather this where people can play and enjoy the game.

[@BLuNTEDR]

I did all the alphas etc, you could always feel there was a level of power missing, I guessed that was going to be gems, I guessed that was going to be the p2w. I then stoped caring. People don't know how to make games anymore, that's why good games are so rare.

[@truedps8]

I mean it's pretty simple. Companies follow money. If gamers want projects like Wayfinder Echoes to happen in the future then they need to buy Wayfinder. If the developer went through all that effort to rework the game and it still fails to sell well....then every company is going to look at that and think it is a waste of resources. Money speaks, your voice does not.

[@Tenkiei]

I agree and I hope Wayfinder Echoes has a long & successful future.

[@spcvrtx]

WildStar next ..

[@DocKotoga]

The game looks very interesting and I've put it on my wishlist because I don't play early access games. I'm old enough to remember beta testers getting paid for their testing and not the other way around. 😉 Accordingly, I'll wait for the release and then take another look.

[@hikky631]

Turn out DE was the curse alllong

[@TheEr910]

I'm glad the game transitioned from a MMO. I have not enjoyed many live service games.

[@1njustice]

Very well articulated. I agree with your sentiment and your take on the situation surrounding the game. Purchased a founder's pack myself and was hoping the MMO version would find success but given the circumstances I think the current game is a great consolation. If you enjoy looter type games it's most definitely worth the asking price IMO. Thanks for the video, really been enjoying your uploads and wouldn't mind more news type content 👍

[@Tenkiei]

You're welcome, and I'm glad you've enjoyed the news type videos recently. I enjoyed putting this & the new world video together so there's a good chance you'll see more in the future!

[@samends8863]

an now i miss Otherland. another game that would certainly have gone down well as a single player if there had been the opportunity and a lot of bug fixing of course.

[@Tenkiei]

I remember Josh Strife Hayes did some great videos on Otherland, the story looked absolutely wild.

[@samends8863]

@@Tenkiei i had completely forgotten that j.s.hayes has a playthrough on his channel. thank you for reminding me. i'll bathe happily in nostalgia today. i wish the game still had the chance to be turned into a single player nowadays.

[@blix2001]

I will never forget them for Not giving my hundred dollars back. And yes, I did not pay a hundred dollars for a single player game. And telling people pretty much that they should have known better. It's not the way to go. No other industry would get away with something like this. So don't be so condescending for people who spent the money.

[@Tenkiei]

The gaming industry has been selling stuff like this for the better part of 2 decades now and the main reason is people keep buying it. You're right, you didn't pay $100 for a singleplayer game, you paid $100 for the license to access a service which you agreed could be altered or removed at any time at the seller's sole discretion. If more people went after the responsible party, such as starting a lawsuit against Digital Extremes to sue for refunds this might change. If people didn't buy these "supporter packs" for new games before they're finished, this would change. But so long as people keep buying them, then doing nothing beyond complaining on the internet after something happens, nothing will change. But you're also setting up a false dichotomy here. The options aren't "you paid $100 and got more MMO" or "you paid $100 and got a singleplayer game you didn't want". The alternative here was the MMO shuts down, you can't play it and nobody else can either.

[@senatheEND]

i didint like the first mmo launch, but i love the single player with coop Kritika Online/reboot should be relaunched as a single player game with coop

[@ericlongstreet343]

New World lol

[@Ilyak1986]

Good take. Hope that this studio can make some lemonade out of this lemon, and maybe scrounge up enough reputation to keep the doors open for another title.

[@iFullgogo]

Why play this when ZZZ is coming out in a couple of weeks.

[@Tenkiei]

Because some people want a game that's not tainted by excessive monetization?

[@illomens2766]

This game feels incredibly empty without the MMO aspect.

[@Maxstratus2002]

As a person that played the game for the first time in echoes, I did not feel that at all actually. Only the players that played the MMO version would feel that. Overall I think Airship made the right call and I got their back going forward.

[@Tenkiei]

I can definitely see it feeling empty if you're used to the MMO "busy world" feeling. But in terms of my own experience I agree with Maxstratus, it felt bright and vibrant with a good number of enemies / NPCs along the way.

[@Tonebaited123]

It was dead as an mmo tho. People actually playing it now as single player.

[@Fazeshyft]

I'm not an avid MMO or live service enjoyer. I generally tend to prefer single player solitary experiences. And while I understand your feeling, having no player avatars populating the world around you, I find the world to be quite lively.

[@Mizerableklaha]

Does it really? It's just two zones and all the rest is instanced. If you can find a friend to play it with I think it's better off being a mostly offline experience.

[@James-9999]

W rugpull

[@jaccl4539]

This is absurd, and you know it-they have no money for refunds, and you said they took the hard way to fix it? No, they are covering their asses the best way they can. They owe a refund, and you are talking about taking their word for it. Wonderful, they misused funds and had a bad game, but how many chances should they get? This is like praising you for being a failure all your life, and then you get a decent job on your 70th birthday and say no one should expect to be reimbursed for all those loans you asked for. Bad business is bad business, and people coming in under the new system are a completely separate thing. Regardless, this is a good example of what not to do. We don't want games-scamming supporters to say, "To survive, we're going to resell the game to a new audience with a different system, and we can't afford to refund you. - But its fun now!" Look , I get what your trying to say and that its on the correct path now - but nothing about what they did and how they did it were a good example.

[@Tenkiei]

You seem to be confusing the developer and the publisher here. The developer Airship Syndicate is NOT the same company as the publisher Digital Extremes. Typically, publishers handle the business side of things in the developer-publisher relationship. This includes setting prices, monetization and receiving payments. They then provide the developer with a payment structure, where the publisher typically takes a majority of the money from sales until their initial investment is recouped. As far as I know the publishing agreement for Wayfinder has not been made public, but yes until proven otherwise I'm taking the developer at their word. What you are suggesting would be like if at your job, a customer came to you and demanded a refund for a purchase out of YOUR pocket after the company you worked for was dissolved. Even if they want a refund because of a mistake you made, the money went to the company, not you personally. How is it your personal responsibility to refund them?

[@jaccl4539]

@@Tenkiei I get where we disagree but its irrelevant because the product originally purchased is not the product received - The consumer did not get the advertised product. The quibble between developer and publisher doesn't matter in that regard. Again nothing here was done correctly or should be praised. That doesn't negate or change that they are making amazing steps in making the best product from here. This is more like a story we admire and a game we enjoy rather then actually any "good" being done. We all love a good robin hood story despite that making him a criminal.

[@Tenkiei]

This is a much broader issue in the gaming industry, but you also didn't purchase a product. You gave money for access to part of a service which could be changed or revoked at any time. I would love the industry to change such that when you "buy a game" you DO own it and that comes with legal protections. But that's not the case currently, especially not for supporter packs or cosmetics. The fact that you're buying nothing is why I'm flatly against purchasing supporter packs (or similar things) for new games based on what they may be in the future because in all likelihood they won't be around a couple years later. I only buy them as a thank you for the playtime I already got in a game, essentially saying "thank you for what it is right now."

[@xagnarok3991]

The game is very fun now