Somehow for Some Reason - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 18

Merry Christmas! Dragon Ball Dissection December concludes its look at the fight with Baby. It can be an emotionally-satisfying payoff, but... Oob never actually turned into chocolate, Bruits Waves can heal Baby, and Baby can't stay in a regular-sized Vegeta anymore. Why? Well, all of these things happen somehow, for some reason. What more explanation do you need?
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[@danielquinlan2457]

I like to imagine that Mr. Boo developed a countermeasure to his Choco-Beam after what happened to him in the Boo arc (sorta like Piccolo Jr and his Reverse Mafuba), and passed the skill onto Oob when they fused.

[@nathanmarshall745]

Considering they find Buu completely intact within...well, Buu it's possible his magic regeneration also includes reverting from chocolate bits Baby DID chew on Uub after all, even talking with his mouth full

[@crystalfire7x]

Yeah, I always assumed that even as a youth.

[@orbboom6119]

Boo so smart

[@Zacman1123]

I think that makes sense.

[@ThelronFjord]

I don't care about Adult Gotenks, but Goku shooting down the Fusion idea was the point where GT truly became Goku Time.

[@saiyanscaris6530]

super saiyan 4 goku was considered stronger than even vegito at points. which also includes super saiyan 2 vegito. which is stronger than mystic gohan which is stronger than super saiyan 3 gotenks. so goku probably knew fusion wouldnt work

[@EclipseHedgehog]

another one of my favorite GT (goku time) moments; Gohan goes "wait a second dad, I'm coming with you!" and Goku smiles and goes "no!"

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

​@@saiyanscaris6530goku in GT never even gets close to Vegito except for maybe his Ascension in Board Daylight. Adults Gotenks definitely could have been useful.

[@the-aspiring-creator4249]

@@saiyanscaris6530 But at this point? Who cares? Baby is ridiculously strong and is a threat Goku in his fancy new transformation is struggling with. Plus he's a giant monkey, there's no reason why the others shouldn't just help Goku beyond "Oh but he's a Saiyan and thus he wants to fight alone." and yada yada yada.

[@slifer875]

@@EclipseHedgehog That made smile in a meta weird way, goku handle the torch to gohan TWICE by now, and gohan kept dropping it, its like goku is telling his son that he is no longer worthy of being his successor or helping, he is no longer welcome in the dojo. He lost his chance, should have taken his gifts seriously instead of being an indecisive mama boy. If GT didnt had that ending i am sure goku would have made pan his successor alongside with uub.

[@IaMaPh1991]

"Somehow... Palpatine returned." - Lance, Dec 2023

[@Kolbatsu]

"somehow for some reason" why do I have the feeling I'm gonna hear that for the rest of this dissection?

[@Ahturos]

"Becuse you are."

[@ThelronFjord]

9:49 Hey look Pan's got a little Super Saiyan aura going on there, like Krillin does in that one frame for like 3 seconds.

[@LanceThumping]

I was going to question 1 frame over 3 seconds but then remembered how variable the animation quality was and stopped doubting.

[@orbboom6119]

Not even Heroes has given her Super Saiyan yet😭and they even gave Nappa Super Saiyan

[@petruciosxd1374]

@@orbboom6119 They gave Gohan and Broly Super Saiyan 4 and she doesn't even get REGULAR Super Saiyan?? I thought there was an alternate Pan like there is of Trunks and Goku, too, wtf??? 😭

[@orbboom6119]

@@petruciosxd1374 yeah there's Xeno Pan, but its just GT Pan with a different outfit, it should've an adult Pan with at least Super Saiyan, maybe SS4, since they gave the female avatars SS4.

[@Crybaby0ttant0tt0]

15:38 I "love" how everyone is there posing for a group shot... except Oob. Who was right there minutes before, but somehow for some reason he missed his cue to stand next to everyone else. F*cking Last House.

[@ligtningdog6399]

It's ust DBGT in general. If you aren't a sayian, you are nothing.

[@ThelronFjord]

12:24 More garlic ho's than a bread basket at Olive Garden.

[@Gardetrace]

Ba dum tiss.

[@Kingshit69]

I'll be honest, when I was a kid I always assumed I missed an episode where Pan went SSJ, and was confused why the games never included it

[@JoelsCollection]

It honestly could have been this super iconic moment in the show where maybe Pan transforms to save her Grandpa Goku, and they really wasted that potential

[@rjd-kh8et]

If Super Dragon Ball Heroes can have SSJ3 Nappa and Raditz, they can have Super Saiyan Pan.

[@Kingshit69]

@@rjd-kh8et I love SDBH so much even the Switch game was fun

[@Morgil27]

"Frankly, I don't care if she becomes a Super Saiyan or not" Frickin' _FINALLY_ someone who shares my opinion on that!!

[@crystalfire7x]

You know. I never gave a damn about it either.

[@SonicmaniaVideos]

Her becoming a Super Saiyan wouldn't have changed anything... Like so many people have convinced themselves, that's why it doesn't really matter.

[@orbboom6119]

Tbh it wouldn't have changed anything lol She is way too weak, a 50x boost aint gonna do anything sadly. But its still weird having Goten and Trunks get SS so easily, and Pan seemingly having even more potential than them at the end of Z, just for her in GT to not even have SS... for some reason.

[@DarkInception]

Last Christmas we were powering through the late Boo arc, now we’re towards the end of the Baby arc. Thank you *so much* for all the hard work and years of amazing content. I can’t tell you the countless hours I’ve spent enjoying your videos. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, Lance 🎄

[@panthekirb7561]

So next year will be the end of GT? Or perhaps the mid portion of something entirely new..

[@richborn6700]

​@@panthekirb7561my best guess is next DBCember ends with the GT Heros Legacy review around New Years. Likely with the end of the Shadow Dragon arc and general summarization of GT as a whole

[@MistareFusion]

I can tell you this: the show is literally only two episodes away from the GT special you're talking about, so that's almost certainly coming a lot sooner than you're guessing. :-D

[@trueblade3636]

​@@MistareFusiondo you already know what you gonna do when GT is finished? If so, I understand if you don't want it share it now. Also, Merry Christmas to you :)

[@YossarianVanDriver]

I remember reading that one interview question right before I finally watched GT as an adult, and it set my expectations pretty low, and then I was surprised by how central Pan ended up being and how much of the plot she moved. I had to wonder if Morishita was even remembering the show right, or just making up what sounded like a good answer to a question he didn't really have anything for.

[@EmeralBookwise]

Nah... it's pretty much exactly what he describes. Pan is still a heroine who does important things, just never so important as to upstage Goku. She's strong, but never strong enough to save the day herself, and instead needs to be rescued. It's sorta of an annoying pandering type of "empowerment", though pretty common for the 90s. Put a girl in a staring role, not to stand by her own merit, but so she can be a more central motivating factor for the man. Don't get me wrong, it's still progress of a sort, but equally demonstrative of just how much more progress needed to be made.

[@Thisdude850]

Pan needed to be involved in the plot for Goku to save her even when she doesn't accomplish much.

[@mechajay3358]

"Somehow...... For Someone Reason" GT in a Nutshell

[@kinggoldark3853]

I remember watching this arc for the first time back in the day and being astounded that Baby's destruction made me happy. That a massive slog through several different adventures, genres, and tones managed to make the ending work was miraculous and probably the sole achievement of GT itself.

[@ThelronFjord]

14:32 I think Cooler actually does show up in the next arc as a cameo for like a single frame, and that's it.

[@Gardetrace]

He knows, that's what he was referencing.

[@mistre_aphera]

Even before GT in the guidebooks that exact movie was included in the chronology with NO other movies (except for Garlic ofc) being there. Coola was always a part of the main story.

[@spritvio639]

That one second cameo was enough to utterly fuck up the space and timeline.

[@UnlimitedRadioButNoSoap]

mr. popo gets a plot amp every arc. remember when he blocked punches from goten and trunks as super saiyans? kaioshin might be in real danger lol

[@androidsenpai1462]

They were only Freeza level Super Saiyans tho, so not that big of a threat.

[@UnlimitedRadioButNoSoap]

@@androidsenpai1462 nah trunks damaged vegeta they're >>>>>>> semi perfect cell

[@craigpeoples9883]

​@@UnlimitedRadioButNoSoapAnd they gave 18 that work, Kid Trunks did better against her than his future self did until the end

[@UnlimitedRadioButNoSoap]

@@craigpeoples9883 yup. and while holding back too, because he didn't want to kill her

[@leafbladie]

Lovely review. I still love how well you analyze the actual themes of the story, instead of (just) focusing on the nitpicks like so many other people who looked at GT before you.

[@PathBeyondTheDark]

No such thing as a nitpick with GT

[@efi3825]

12:30 Baby Vegeta is using Vegeta's Technique™. Somehow. For some reason.

[@connorschultz380]

Uub changing himself back always made sense to me, it's not like buu was still a candy bar inside super buu, timeing is something, I also figured something being wrong with baby was foreshadowing ubb, maybe ubb was at least trying to do something without being noticed, even if it didn't amount to much, then realized the time had come to *be* noticed when the group were trying to power up goku

[@Freezer94]

I remember as a kid the reason my friends and family said Pan couldn't become a super saiyan was cause she was only one quarter saiyan. It's a nice fan excuse even if the end of GT ruins it.

[@MistareFusion]

That's what I'd always heard as a kid too!

[@orbboom6119]

Kinda gets ruined by Goku Jr. going Super Saiyan when he is even less saiyan than pan

[@Freezer94]

@@orbboom6119 that's what the last sentence was about.

[@orbboom6119]

@@Freezer94 ah okay

[@dr.c2195]

Baby ought to have taken Bulma with him when he was trying to escape. Goku would probably not have pushed him into the sun if he had Bulma on that ship.

[@caejones2792]

Then there could have been a Baby Bulma arc where they travel the galaxy and start a new Tsufurian civilization. Or, you know, just Instant Transmission her out, thereby prolonging the story for like 5min, but I like the Empress Bulma idea better. It'd give Vegeta something more interesting to do in the next arc, and seeing how crazy things could get with Bulma's genius combined with everything she and Baby can get from the whole universe could have been interesting.

[@TheAzulmagia]

A lot of Baby's problems could've probably been resolved more favorably for him if he wasn't abusive to his minions. But such is the case of being a Dragon Ball villain.

[@dr.c2195]

@@caejones2792 I forgot about Instant Transmission. Baby can never escape. Instant Transmission can find him anywhere in an instant. Instant Transmission would make Goku a better hitman than Hit (from Super) ever was. I really emphatise with GT wanting to take Instant Transmission away from Goku. Goku is OP.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

@@caejones2792 Look after Bulma Ginyu Toei weren't about to do another "Bulma gets possessed!" Storyline

[@Jotari]

It's actually a good thing Baby decided to be a dick for no reason and push Bulma off the space ship. If she were on it, Goku would have had to face the moral decision of killing her along with Baby. Which, sure, death is irrelevant with Dragon Balls, but it'd still probably sour their relationship just a little. Seriously though, that was such a dumb move on Baby's part. Mind Slave Bulma did so much for him in that battle, she would absolutely be a useful asset to him if he did manage to get away and live to plot another day.

[@slifer875]

goku would feel bulma ki and teleport inside the ship, there is moral dilemma, baby however could possess bulma body and use it as a shield.

[@Jotari]

@@slifer875 One way or the other it would have made things more difficult for Goku if Baby had Bulma with him.

[@NEOET]

12:52 'something, something, ultra instinct'

[@ShinobiPXO]

11:23 You really have to wonder if Toriyama took inspiration from this scene, even subconsciously. Hell, they literally do this in Battle Of Gods with just 4 Sayians only to be told that powering up like that doesnt count as Godhood, almost symbolically saying DBS isn't following the same path GT. Its almost eeriely prophetic when you think about it.

[@EmeralBookwise]

I don't know if Toriyami took inspiration or not, but considering how video games like Xenovere imply that the GT timeline diverged after Battle of Gods, I like to retcon that as where Goku And Baby Vegeta got the idea from.

[@Ineedgames]

At least it makes more sense. They had to get the Dragon to tell them to do a magic ritual instead of just pulling it of their asses.

[@Gardetrace]

Let's play a drinking game. 🥃 Take a shot every time Lance says "somehow for some reason." You'll be dead before he's finished saying it. By the way, Lance, are you going to include the arcs of GT in your overall Dragon Ball arc ranking? How do these arcs compare to the ones of Toriyama's work?

[@Jotari]

That's actually a really good question, let's get more people asking it.

[@crystalfire7x]

That's going to be interesting to see it once he finished GT.

[@androidsenpai1462]

If anything, he should rank them within the pseudo ranking he did for the anime equivalents at the end of DBD TV, since GT is set in the anime continuity.

[@crystalfire7x]

Ah yes I was hoping to see the review to end this year and it's perfect. Now for Long Live The Demon King, where Piccolo says "I care about Chaozu".

[@efi3825]

I don't remember much about Dragon Ball GT, but the non-Gotenks moment, yeah, that was frustrating. This show just doesn't miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

[@SilBee64BH]

So, my main knowledge of the overall plot of GT was always from the Budokai Tenkaichi/Sparking video games. I had the first Funimation "Lost Episodes" disc, but that was about it. The story was so truncated in those games, that I always thought GT had way less going on then it apparently actually does. So thanks for all these videos so far, it's certainly helped give me more understanding even while not actually watching and the analysis is still great as usual!

[@Soynereh]

If Baby let Bulma (Blooma) board the ship, Goku wouldnt dare to fire the Kamehameha. That'd be a nice dilema situation.

[@TheAzulmagia]

He could always just Instant Transmission, grab Bulma, warp back to one of the others, and then fire.

[@Soynereh]

@@TheAzulmagia But what if Bulma was piloting the ship and she reveals that the Kaioshin already heald her and she lines towards the sun on purpose, Goku grabs her and Pan and the others fire a blast to push the ship. Teamwork!

[@TheDanishGuyReviews]

I never understood the rules behind the Black Star Dragon Balls. I always saw it as "Gather these Dragon Balls and then wish for something on another planet, so THAT can blow up in a year." But they never did that.

[@kaihedgie1747]

Yikes, that Titanic quote Speaking of transformations and whatnot, Dragon Ball Heroes went and made that Super Saiyan 4 powerup its own transformation called Super Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker, except instead of just a red glow, their hair and fur turn a much lighter shade of red and the aura changes as well. It also gave us adult Gotenks. Two versions of 'em, in fact. Furthermore, the game also gave us our first female Super Saiyan (sorta) with Note. Not only can she turn Super Saiyan, but she later gets all of the Saiyan transformations from both GT and Super . Unfortunately, despite the game being a massive fanfic-y what-if, Pan *still* does not get any transformations. Goddamn Raditz got Super Saiyan. Even Turles got a new form. But Pan? Despite continuing to have a presence as a supporting character in the Heroes manga? Nope.

[@kikihideout4966]

The one episode we saw Baby's non fused form teased in the V2 version of the intro, and its a Last House animated episode.

[@dwainfrett5385]

12:26 aha maybe Vegeta has been using the gallic ho the whole time....😏

[@Redeyblagon]

I can't seriously wait for you to get to the Super 17 episodes because that's "SOMEHOW, FOR SOME REASON: THE ARC". I love GT, but that arc is the only part I can't possibly defend.

[@MashupsByMandy]

Semi Perfect Cell uses a Galick Ho against Super Vegeta, it is never mentioned out loud but Vegeta does react to it briefly.

[@MariaYuri-qo8jy]

That's filler

[@Morgil27]

Okay, so Baby-Vegeta did not have a tail. Bulma blasts him with a bunch of the bla-bla waves, and he turns into a giant ape _with_ a tail. He loses the tail and reverts to tail-less Vegeta again. Couldn't she just blast him with more waves and make him turn back into a tailed monkey again?

[@adambraun1990]

“Is Coola in this continuity?” Well he does technically have a cameo in the Super #17 Arc when all the villains leave Hell, so maybe 🤷🏻‍♂️. It’s only a split second shot but he does show up flying in the background.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

16:22 Should've just made him an adult again with a "somehow for some reason" Goku being a Kid doesn't matter at all after that line

[@cellperfecto421]

14:26 "Wait, is that in this continuity?" Boy, the worms that came from the rotten can that is the Super 17 Arc will burst all at once.

[@crystalfire7x]

That is something to look forward on 2024.

[@Thisdude850]

Ah yes the Baby's arc last episode is gonna end with Piccolo dying again in GT(after retconning his first death and making a huge plothole to give him a reason to die) all for him to get 4 minutes of screentime in the episode named after his death.

[@spyroG3]

13:52 I noticed that too, the only time we get to see "Adult" Baby's design and it's in an episode animated by Last House. D: In the end there will be 19 parts, god, it surpassed the number of the Cell arc videos

[@gavinlucas9761]

The best way I can describe the final fight with Baby is that it's so dumb and yet really cool at the same time! While there are a lot of things that feel random such as explained in this video I still found this fight to be oddly satisfying. Baby is a wonderfully hypocritical villain who views Saiyans as nothing more than hideous disgusting monsters and over time ends up becoming the thing he hates. Goku who while being a pure-blooded Saiyan isn't anything like the Siayans that Baby views since he is more compassionate and views Earth as his true home and as a result was able to achieve a new transformation. The planet Tsufuru makes an interesting backdrop for this fight, the music done by Tokunaga really makes this battle exciting, some of the moves are really cool even if some of it doesn't make any sense, and while most of the cast show up to do very little in the actual fight I like how it shows that Goku isn't alone in this and that the Saiyans of today are nothing like the barbaric race as they where in the past and Baby was wrong in assuming that they only fight for there own sake, which was what lead to Baby's downfall. Plus I'm just glad that this fight isn't too dragged much like with animated super's fights and it knew where it needed to take a break in the action. It's absolutely bananas to be sure, but if we where all a gigantic golden ape we all crave for bananas.

[@PrimeroJinJusuke]

One piece of trivia: The Revenge Death Ball is called Jaakudama in Germany (outside of video games).

[@metal87power]

It's good thing that Baby has no regeneration ability like Boo so his eggs won't grow into his adult copy, somehow, for some reason. 😅

[@Thenewbagman]

In the next episode..." Hey, remember Piccolo?...because Toei didnt. Miraculous come back of the demon King to do nothing"

[@CutMan567]

Very interesting watching this on my own, for the first time, ahead of DBD and thinking "Man, this sucks so much!" and then Lance has been really positive the whole fight. I blame my unfamiliarity with animated Dragon Ball in general messing with my expectations

[@Hau5test]

Somehow for some reason I like this episode

[@jayson3788]

Feels like a missed opportunity to have the “something’s wrong” with baby to be him unlocking super saiyan 4 but it would have a drawback since baby isn’t a saiyan

[@brandonlyon730]

Yep, can't wait for next week to see Piccolo make a very pointless sacrifice in an arc he has barely appeared in.

[@mrboerger1620]

Happy holidays MistareFusion ❤

[@devynpena6549]

I'm late, but thank you for the best Christmas present. I can't wait for next Christmas

[@KINGBADASS100]

Merry xmas Lance & have a happy new year! Also man, GT really is the “somehow, for some reason” show ins’t it?

[@Videospiel-Man5730]

Ptobably cause of all the diffrent studios meddling with the story!

[@genyakozlov1316]

Dragon Ball is the "somehow, for some reason" series, it's just that people stick it harder to GT than the rest of it, for some reason. Just look at how the world suddenly became our normal earth between the Sayan and Cell sagas, with no dinosaurs or superpowered martial artists, to the point Mr. Satan was surprised to see people with actual powers like Goku didn't publicly save the earth multiple times before, with only the tournament announcer recognizing him somehow, for some reason. Bearus even says he destroyed the dinosaurs despite them being around to chase Gohan during his training. There's a sea of unexplainable plot holes like this throughout the entire franchise, so at this point I would rather sit back and enjoy than complain.

[@themrdoggo]

@@genyakozlov1316 The original manga run has plenty of issues, but GT absolutely has more condensed into a smaller time frame, which makes them even more readily apparent. And if we're bringing up the modern stuff with Beerus, then Super is in a league of its own, completely incapable of telling a coherent and consistent story for thirty seconds. Saying the entire franchise is equally stupid is just not true.

[@Morgil27]

I'm glad I have some free time to watch this before my family comes over at noon.

[@Sonicmid]

9:47 I don’t think this is right, but I always felt like the power of thing here is what inspired the super Saiyan God ritual.

[@kmgyening]

3:53 LMAO Lance how could you?! I'm SHOCKED

[@gustyko8668]

11:03 well, he probably just realized he could do that (?)

[@andrewshearsby8125]

A shame Polo is not abridged Polo he'll just go along with the chaos and scare everyone

[@joshuastgermain3418]

"Something happened, somehow, for some reason. And we just have to roll with it." The experience of reading a gag manga.

[@shahzebhasan9995]

Oob revealing that he had lost on purpose is one of my least favourite moments in DB. Why didn't he help earlier?! How could he be so sure that Goku was even going to come back?! It really feels as though the writers were too cowardly to move away from the "Goku must win" formula, so they wrote this BS instead of letting Oob contribute in a cool way.

[@AtomicComms]

"don't you see" sounds like such an Abba song. I love it. GT had some good songs. Also yeah, a lot of this ending doesn't make any sense, I still love it tho

[@androidsenpai1462]

Wait, the Gallic-Gun only appeared ONCE in the original Dragon Ball series?? I could swear Vegeta got more use out of it than that! And that Cell used it once or twice in Dragon Ball Z.

[@rodthedigger2902]

Great video!

[@EvanSol919]

Happy Freeza Day! 🥳

[@the-aspiring-creator4249]

I remember when the possibility of adult Gotenks came up I was... not excited since I'm not the biggest Gotenks fan but I was thinking it was cool to see the boys take initiative. Then Goku refutes them, the two characters known for how they don't easily listen to plans when together and they just go with it. I mean... why not have them join the fight? Baby is a giant monkey man, we could use every bit of help but I guess when you get red body fur you call dibs. As for the rest of this? It's a depressingly mediocre finale, loaded with GT's usual trappings. Things just happen, we're too rushed and too slow and indeed, it's satisfying but also so very, VERY stupid. Though if you ask me, it's everything surrounding it that's terrible. We're not there yet so I will reserve comments for that point but basically this is when we get a big trait of GT's I hate. It forces emotional moments regardless of how much sense it actually makes to do so. It wants you to believe it's important because hey, it's characters you know and love but the situations are so blatantly contrived there's really no chance for genuine emotion unless you're that invested into the series.

[@TheAzulmagia]

Don't we see Cooler in the next arc? At any rate, I can buy the idea of Uub managing to use some of Buu's abilities to make lemonade out of the lemons of being eaten. The idea that he got eaten intentionally to set up that situation is just absurd, though.

[@spartanq7781]

That was the joke.

[@mitchfletcher2386]

Merry Frickin' Christmas.

[@bluecheckmiya]

“There are a lot of galic-ho’s” oh really now Lance? I would like to meet them

[@didgeridude8430]

Happy Holidays Lance!

[@ultimateshadeofwar]

Merry Christmas to everyone here, hope that you are enjoying it as much as i enjoy this video :D

[@StanislaoMoulinsky79]

I forgot to comment last week, but the x10 Kamehameha makes no sense conceptually. Energy blasts can use as little or as much energy as you want (like when Gohan used all his energy to shoot a Masenko at Nappa and a Kamehameha at Cell).

[@Hydrogue]

I suppose the name indicates it's supposed to be ten times more potent/damaging. The exact mechanisms are vague (at one time we see Goku crushing two energy balls together, one from either hand, to make the more concentrated x10 attack. This never happens again) because the mechanisms of ki in DB have always been vague. The most embarrassing thing about SS4 Goku's new signature move is that it never actually does anything significant or impressive. Any kamehameha attacks that do are just the regular blue version...

[@Saiya6CIT]

I could not watch this video until now... somehow... for some reason.

[@otaking3582]

I'm still upset that they had Young Goku as the heroic GT rep in Fighterz instead of Pan. If ASW wanted a younger Goku, they could've just used the one from the original Dragon Ball that uses the Power Pole. That at least would make him more than just "another version of Goku".

[@WhitehawkePAUNCH]

Pan becoming a Super Saiyan is something that still hasn't officially happened to this day, even in the expanded universe (Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse, basically), which is kind of mind-boggling given how they insist on giving every other Saiyan transformations they never attained or could feasibly attain (Hello there, Super Saiyan 3 Bardock). It's not like it's something about the girl Saiyans anymore either: although Caulifla and Kale obviously exist nowadays in the Super continuity and are debatably more canon than her, the Saiyan girl avatar "Note" from Dragon Ball Heroes has had Super Saiyan for a long time now (since around 2012, I think), and she looks similar enough to Pan. She's since achieved SS2, SS3, SS4, SS4 Limit Break, SSG, SSB and even Ultra Instinct. And yet, Pan doesn't get any what-ifs transformations like all the other Saiyans do, even with her getting an alternate (older?) design for Dragon Ball Heroes' lore...story...plot...thing... It feels like it's part of the mythology for her to not be able to transform, even as everyone around her keeps unlocking more merchandising opportunities...I mean, "stronger" forms. Although I wouldn't be surprised for Super's version of Pan to eventually unlock SSJ and more, if the plot keeps moving forward there. Regardless, from what I've seen, anytime GT age or older Pan (and Bulla for that matter) is used in something fanmade, most of the time she's given at least SS1. Even though it is vastly outdated in terms of power creep by that era, Super Saiyan, on top of just being really cool, is just such an obvious "I'm serious now"-form for many fans that a Saiyan not being able to use it makes them as worthless at fighting as the humans are, even if plot-wise, both in canon and most fanon, every Saiyan besides Goku (and sometimes Vegeta) are usually thrown to the wayside after jobbing to the newest villain (unless they're not there at all like in Super Hero). TL;DR Oozaru Pan when?

[@Mordaedil]

Hell yeah, the Future Trunks arcin Super should have ended with him slicing Zamazu in half.

[@BagOfMagicFood]

But we _have_ to end the arc with the universe destroyed just to convince the audience that Zeno will leave universes destroyed in the next arc!

[@craigpeoples9883]

​@@BagOfMagicFoodEven though we see him do it within the same arc

[@Tyr666Thor]

The uub bit is so easy to fix too. Just take out the bit about uub doing it on purpose. Have him say that he could fight the choco beam over time and just freed himself. Makes much more sense. And uub/buu being able to counteract the choco beam a bit does make sense, especially since it was baby that eat him rather than buu.

[@stephvondames6369]

Merry Christmas everybody.

[@nngnnadas]

Of course pan had to join. Otherwise the Super Saiya God comparison wouldn't be complete.

[@Videospiel-Man5730]

Honestly watching this i think the following: Theres only one thing gt needs for it to be pretty flawless in lances eyes someone who actually organizes the diffrent animation studios to reduce the pulling into multiple directions!

[@supasphoje]

I feel like the logic can be bent with Uub returning to normal since Vegito was able to at least fight as a piece of candy, though it still feels like a weird decision earlier that baby just casually eats Uub without hesitation or thought that eating him could either power him up or backfire (mainly since Vegeta's memories would have this info).

[@drew6145]

Decided to hit like somehow. And comment for some reason.

[@KetenReviews]

Great breakdown! I definitely feel like they dropped the ball after such a great string of episodes but you do bring up some good points about it not going on longer than it needs to and that the story beats themselves are good, it just really feels like they were making it up as they go. Well, I still really like this arc overall, great villain, some great ideas, great thematic subtext, even if a lot of the writing is messy or stupid as hell. Unfortunately, it's pretty much all downhill from here for me... lol

[@PokeHokage]

How tall is ssj 4 Goku that pan can just wrap around his leg like that? Wtf.

[@LilLorThatGamerFoo]

Your analysis always make so many good points. Weather it be flaws, inaccuracies or pros, which Is why I've watched ever dbd. Great job ! Keep em coming. If baby was smart, while having been in vagetas body and in his mind, he should have known taking bulma with him would have gave him a better chance at surviving. Since knowing, through vageta that no one probably would have shot the ship down because the risk of bulma dieing too. Or maybe they would have anyway and jut use the dragon balls to wish her back to life..? Hmm

[@1UnderKable]

Pan should've at least gotten some runoff Super Saiyan energy from the ritual and become a Super Saiyan that way.

[@silveryuno]

Merry Christmas!

[@gregm4813]

"He can fight Baby from the inside ... somehow ... for some reason." I don't care if Dragon Ball GT doesn't have a good logistical reason why this happens. It's cool anyways, and it's giving someone BESIDES Goku an actual role in the fight. I won't turn down teamwork actually mattering in a Dragon Ball fight. Easiest fix here is that Uub didn't intend for this to happen, but discovers he CAN fight against Baby, but it takes him time to get to the point where he can really DO internal damage. It's still a coincidence that it happens when everyone's being dramatic, but hey, it's a passable explanation.

[@GAPMan88]

Say what you will about Toriyama but at least, he understands pacing in fights.

[@SylentEcho]

GT walked so that other animes could run. Those "team moments" became the norm much later.

[@PegasusPablo]

Talk about the magic pants!

[@TerryB01]

Merry Christmas all

[@adama.7735]

In all honesty, I don’t think Pan frequently getting saved by Goku would’ve even been as controversial among fans if it weren’t for Morishita’s infamous quote. On the surface, her role in the story doesn’t seem any worse than the typical female character in a 90s Shonen series. If anything, the fact that she manages to stay prominent while Trunks gets shoved to the sidelines almost could’ve been seen as fairly progressive for the time. Morishita just had to run his mouth, so now it’s more noticeable.

[@Soynereh]

We barely get to see blue baby. Too bad.

[@kitsuaria]

Wouldve been nice if they had explained it as Baby "losing" connection with Vegeta's body as he struggles to adapt to the Ape body, he doesnt feel the pain Vegeta's body receives. So while he feels like the Kamehameha did nothing, Vegeta's body is barely holding together. But who needs explanations! This is the GT Kamehameha! Delayed damage is one of its RNG rolls.

[@trueblade3636]

Are you going to rank the arcs of Dragon GT? Like you did with the Dragon Ball arcs

[@manjiimortal]

The producer clearly didn't watch Titanic, and rather was told about the ending by someone else, because Rose does a lot of saving Jack on the film. Storytelling is really messy here, which in turns nicely pays homage to what Toriyama's storytelling had become by the time the Android saga started.

[@someoneelse2384]

The reveal of Oob being able to undo his chocolate status was always so annoying. Why didn't he do that when Baby was still normal sized? He could just burst him open!

[@EmeralBookwise]

Presumably because he didn't want to actually kill Vegeta. Although it still doesn't make sense why he wouldn't used this trick earlier in the fight. If they were gonna pull an Uub got intentionally eaten twist, they should have made him the reason Baby gets forced out of Vegeta's body. Reveal that a micro sized Uub had been searching for the Baby core this whole time. Or at the very least have that be what Uub was trying to do, have the moment Goku is trying to borrow power from everyone else coincide with Uub finding the core and him and Baby actually fighting inside Vegeta be what buys time, even if Uub still fails and gets spit out.

[@ligtningdog6399]

The tiny bit of logic here would be that Uub wouldn't of had room to change back in if Bebi was human sized.

[@metal87power]

Oob was boasting that he let himself to be eaten and learnt how to reverse his spell later by accident.😅

[@petruciosxd1374]

Would Uub actually kill Baby or would HE be instantly crushed inside him, since Baby is so much stronger? ...How much more powerful than someone do you have to be before they're inferior to your internal organs? 🥴Now granted, even if Uub was the one to die and not Baby, I can't imagine that scenario would exactly be a healthy one, regardless...

[@jackhousman2757]

Merry Christmas everyone😊

[@drearydoll6305]

4:00 Yeah, that was a good question. I mean dude is supposed to be faaaaaaaaaaar stronger than both of them together. At beast he could have just dodged all their attack. But hey, as far as I remember, shin never fough an actual battle in this form so I guess they went along with how he literally never fight. 5:50 I can't help but think in my head that they just didn't want to animate the rain during a battle

[@Bubblegob]

I tried watching GT a fe years ago thinking it couldn't be worse than Super and I had heard that the Baby part was not so bad. I found early GT okay but that's the point where I dropped out so I was looking forward to see your take on it. One of my main gripes with this section of the show was using the Kaïoshin for their first big villain arc since they were used in the Buu arc, it felt like such a lack of imagination to me it kind of just... look the same as the Kaïoshin parts of the boo arc, what could be more boring than that? The fight itself needed better animation and storyboarding to keep me invested. The only part that really did it for me the only reason I kept watching at this point was Bulma being such a devious evil b, it was so good she's been by Goku's side from day one, it really hurts to see her like this.

[@danteshollowedgrounds]

Sweet.😊

[@BobbyMoore2-mp8wb]

SS4 Goku is awesome 😎