Something even the "experts" get wrong

[@CyclopsJoeVideos]

Man THIS IS A MUCH NEEDED VIDEO !!!!! Well done Buddy

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thank you Joe, glad you liked man, cheers

[@michaell397]

If you say so. I gave up. Over 10 minutes in and still rambling, saying the same thing over and over again and no point even close to being made. Fine I guess for pure rank armatures, but -------------------------------------------

[@shaun-p5x]

That video was the perfect example of why we keep watching you Mark, we learn stuff.......

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers Shaun

[@ronniealexander8967]

@@shaun-p5x Mark is one tough cat to clean after! Very knowledgeable, and really good at what he does. Enjoyable as well. And Sam too!

[@ca2129]

That video is the perfect example of why engineers aren’t allowed on the sales floor hahah. But it was great! I’ve come to the same conclusions.

[@tjfishing2714]

Great to know 👍. Definitely out of box thinking but makes perfect sense. I was an Automatic Transmission mechanic after serving as a Combat Engineer. I carried the Light Machine-gun which use a high mount scope and was deadly accurate you could hold finger flat full auto and it would barely move. Being only a 556 calibre helps 😅

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers Man all the best

[@mhughes1160]

Mark and Sam The only people I’ve seen who consider 1200 yards - close range shooting LoL 😂 Thanks for another great lesson. 👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@EsyuDach]

i'ts all bs. Nobody with a brain in a combat zone is holding still and fully exposed in daylight. Nobody's reliably hitting a dodging, cover using, going prone, rolling over man at even 300m. So, after your first shot, you'd done hitting anyone with a brain. if shtf, you're out of your mind to be out in daylight at ALL, or making noise, or showing a normal light at night. Doing those things will get you shot the first month of shtf.

[@jcarne1015]

Good explanation, Mark. Thanks to your previous discussion of the topic, I have started mounting my scopes higher, and have seen the benefits, especially in repeatability of POI. POI shift has been an issue for me since I started working on precision shooting.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, thanks Man, Cheers

[@jcarne1015]

@@markandsamafterwork Don’t think I’ve mentioned that I tried shooting prone on a mat like you do. Unfortunately, due to my back issues, including a three level lumbar-sacral fusion, it doesn’t work for me.

[@ronaldjakabosky9392]

Great advice. been preaching this since 1959. Thank you, Mark. Keep on getting it done so eloquently 😊 your lucky to have the spotter you have.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, Thanks Ron, Cheers

[@CharlesRyan-f3j]

Great video! I have witnessed low impacts and complete low misses with high mounted scopes at very close range in hunting situations. This is the riflemans error, of course. A high velocity round is used at 10 yards, and the shooter never checked for that type of low impact point in practice. Thank you.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, well yes a higher scope makes about 1" difference, but really, always need the thinking box turned on if pulling the trigger, Cheers Charles, thanks

[@CharlesRyan-f3j]

@markandsamafterwork Roger that!

[@johnstambaugh9283]

That was very common is Viet Nam. Even during training.

[@CharlesRyan-f3j]

@johnstambaugh9283 Yes, I have seen it quite a bit. It's not always obvious to a new rifleman who starts at 50 yards and beyond. I THINK?

[@MrT13]

I mean a 2.5” scope at 10 yards is yea 2.25ish inches low. But that shouldn’t be a miss. Unless it’s not a hunting scenario.

[@oldschooljack3479]

Thanks Mark. Clear, concise explanation backed by logic. Keep up the good work. Cheers to you and Sam.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Jack, Cheers Man

[@JamesS.254]

Aside from learning how to setup a good foundation for my rifle to rest in, I think the best advice I've learned from you over the past couple year's is getting myself comfortable behind the rifle and setting up the rifle to suit my position and not the other way around. If you have to force yourself into a position every time you fire the rifle then you are most likely not being as consistent as you could be if you were relaxed.

[@markandsamafterwork]

If the rifle is set up correctly and you use good fundamentals, then yes and you will tend to find comfort is forthcoming, Cheers

[@jeanmorin3247]

The Germans had thought all about angle of recoil in their infantry squad belt-fed automatic rifle (fusil-mitrailleur) which had a straight butt which kept the barrel level when fired. Superbly engineered. It kept the bullets coming in a very small cone.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Jean

[@The_Judge300]

This is an EXTREMELY different application from a bolt gun. And I promise you that the cone is NOT very small at all in 7.62 NATO and fired in long bursts. You see there is something called physics and the laws of forces that messes up this a LOT.

[@warrenpolidori5541]

I always subscribed to the popular opinion that scopes are set low as possible. I recently had one rifle that the scope height canted my head into an uncomfortable position. I gave in and remounted the scope with a pair of 1.25" rings and bingo! Thank you for posting and explaining it in terms that make perfect sense. I do recall some friends having run out of vertical adjustment with large obj lenses and scope height being blamed as the culprit. Years ago Leupold had a scope with a bumped in objective to help lower the height. Guess they couldn't convince the shooting public that it was a good thing because it's no longer available. Another quality video Mark, thanks again.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Warren, Cheers

[@The_Judge300]

The reality when it comes to scope heights and mounts, is that most rifles had and still have a traditional back stock with a few differences and most of them don't have an adjustable cheek piece. Because of this will most struggle with enough or optimal cheek contact to the stock when the center of the scope gets high, so they want to have the scope as low as possible. In your case, did you need to go the other way for you to have optimal contact to the stock. The reality is that most don't need to have their scope high with a high cheek piece to be accurate. The reality is that most need to have their cheek piece at the optimal height for the height of the center of their scope and that height can be different for us all as we are all shaped differently.

[@warrenpolidori5541]

In my case it was a LPVO 1-4, 32MM body mounted on a 358 Norma Mag Mauser action. Had the perfect cheek weld with the higher rings.

[@tikkasako6.5]

..as usual, simple, smart and quite doable....thank you.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man

[@MrT13]

Agree. In fact technically the closer the scope line of sight is to the bore line of sight. Actually loses elevation capability per increment. Easy to show on a ballistic app, 1” scope height may need 10 whatever. Where as a 2” height will only need 8 or 7 etc moa or mill to get same poi with same rig. Now of course 3” would be pretty hard to keep level for real lr. But also a super low scope may run out of elevation 6-800 yards closer all the way out… always a balance with everything. And alleviation of muzzle rise is huge.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@timrink256]

100% agree. But hard to convince most people. Thanks for the video. Be Safe

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Tim, Cheers

[@smallbatchprecision2791]

Solid logic. As you said though, being consistent is key to accuracy which can be done with any setup (albeit easier with the “correct” one). Fitting the optic/stock to the person seems to have benefits outside of that though such as maintaining sight picture, potentially faster follow ups and comfort.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, Cheers

[@chrisc2671]

Thanks Mark, you’re a legend.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Chris

[@RichardForristal-q5r]

Thanks for that video. I got to shoot an AR in Ohio back in 2009 with very little experience, one of the first center fires for me, but from the first shot it amazed me how it did exactly what you asked of it. You ask and it answered every time without a second guess. It almost makes seem to easy compared to other designs.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Richard

[@TripleGRogerLait]

HFT shooting with Sub 12 foot pound in the UK , makes sense for a lower scope . Shooting FT requires higher mounts here in the cold . I have higher mounts for all I do and never worry about scope mounts height . They are higher for sure than my HFT gun .

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@vicbittertoo]

Love you folks, proud to be a fellow West Aussie :):):), being about the same age as you I usually recommend a higher scope setup for us old fellas to reduce neck angles, like you reckon, comfort is no. 1 :)

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks, cheers mate

[@MichaelGonthier-s1p]

A few years ago an actor in "Shooter" explained the mechania of long range sniping. You add the extra techniques with your teachings. You are a "Shootah"!!! Again thanks...

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Mike

[@john-draftanimal]

Great explanation. Solid alignment of stock butt on shoulder aligned to barrel to minimize rotation axis, set scope height to accommodate, maybe no cheek weld or add riser.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks John

[@Ratzepuh]

Very nice. I did it wrong for years. Thank you!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@garyb.4080]

I agree with you. I think adjusting the comb is more important, for me, but I’m not a long range shooter 200-300 yards for hunting, and having a higher scope, allows me to use iron sights for really close shots! I enjoy watching you two shoot the long stuff, there’s a lot of parts that go into a really long range shooter!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Gary

[@pseudopetrus]

I learned something today! Thank you!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man

[@nickdenvir9765]

Makes lots of sense. Makes me feel better about my new, see through scope rings, so I can use the iron sights on my CZ457 22WMR at 25 meters. The scope sits higher than I would normally have but find it’s practical when using the scope for 75-100 meters.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Nick

[@davidpearn4344]

Very good explanation Mark

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Dave

[@vettepilot427]

Mounting the scope as low as possible originates from mounting scopes on conventional rifle stocks that don’t have adjustable cheek height or higher comb height like a monte carlo-style stock. On those old straight comb stocks, you really needed the scope mounted as low as possible to get a proper sight picture through the scope. As modern scopes with larger objectives became more common and by necessity required higher scope rings, stocks with extended height combs and/or adjustable cheek risers became more common as well and it wasn’t necessary to mount scopes as low as possible. One of the small things that you can do to make yourself more comfortable is to raise the cheek height and mount the scope higher. This will prevent you from having to twist your neck so far to the side to get a proper cheek weld with a lower scope. Regardless of your scope height, you should always use solid, well-made rings or scope mounts. This is the wrong place to save money and/or weight and often rifle accuracy problems or failure to retain zero are often blamed on the scope or the rifle, but in fact are caused by poor quality rings.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@The_Judge300]

The reality is that very many people need different stock lengths and even some need different cheek piece height for what shooting position they shoot from and what cloths they have for optimal fit. Most are in reality having a compromise that is decent/good for everything unless they shoot under the same conditions and from the same position all the time. And this is the reality for most hunters. They have a stock that is a compromise for everything and more and more are getting an adjustable cheek piece, but the length of the stock stay the same. VERY many competition shooters today use rifles with adjustable cheek pieces and adjustable recoil pad/butt stock where you can adjust the length of the stock and some even the height of the recoil pad. On one of my rifles I can adjust the cheek piece, how long the back stock is and how high the recoil pad is.

[@ronniealexander8967]

@@vettepilot427 Cheap Rings are one bad investment for sure. Put all that good hard earned money in a nice rifle and scope, And then slight the rings to save a bit. Like you said, not the way to save money on a build.

[@chipsterb4946]

Another educational video. And by that I mean you gently challenged what I “knew” with common sense. Your observation about cheek/chin weld not making a difference had immediate impact. I was reconfiguring a rifle/scope setup yesterday and realized that I had to twist my neck and head unnaturally to get my eyeball into the eye box. I lowered the cheek riser a little bit, but now I will try lowering it to where it’s actually comfortable to get my eyeball into the position where it needs to be. I also need to look at where the butt pad is sitting on my shoulder (adjustable butt pad height). I put an AR height prism optic on a lever action 30-30. It would be horrible except that I also added an articulated stock that allows me to change the stock “drop” fairly radically. It shoots very comfortably but I’ve been worried that it’s just wrong because I “know” that getting the sight down closer to the bore would be “better”. You’ve given me a new perspective to evaluate that setup which is nice because I really like the 2x prism with .30-30.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Chip Cheers

[@rainbow2710]

Yay! Finally! Someone who I agree with as regards the height of the scope! I stopped sharing pics of my scoped rifles on social media as I got bored with “your scope is sitting too high” comments. Lolz. What about an AR platform? Or the Tikka T3 tac with the long forend? Anyways, I used to suspect that the height of the scope might make an effect if you are shooting 100m and next 1000m. But so far it does not seem to have impacted the number of clicks. Great video as always! Cheers!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@DavidStoenner]

The points you make are perfect. I shoot F-Class and when I started I had a lower position for the scope but at 68 I couldn't get comfortable with seeing through the scope. Then I saw a video from an English f-class shooter who said the things you are saying to raise the scope. I did and I can now shot a full day and the next day my neck is not in a spasm. I also raised my whole gun up which raises my head to a comfortable position also. My stock has a fully adjustable butt pad so that is raised about 2 inches so I get the straight back recoil. Thanks for putting this out there as there is not a lot of talk about this subject. BTW my scope is 3" off the bore line.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers Dave

[@billhendon1017]

Well done! Thanks! Makes sense!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Bill

[@robinsage1964]

Excellent explanation on this topic Mark, wishing you and Sam the best of everything.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Robin

[@johnstambaugh9283]

When accuracy is top priority I do agree! I do know that during combat it is best to have a very good barrier between enemy fire. Military battle rifles need less exposer not more. The M16 I was given put my head inches higher than with iron sights. "The buttons on my shirt was keeping me too high" was mentioned by many in combat conditions.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers John

[@TheTallcooljuan]

Great video as always. My hunting rifles have low scopes for cheek weld on traditionally shaped stocks. Manipulate the scope higher and you’ll have to chase it up with a target stock.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@johnstewart2011]

A very eye-opening discussion. Thanks as always.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks John, cheers Man

[@tommysaulter9171]

Excellent subject synopsis, Mark…!!! That’s why I restock almost every rifle I own that will include adjustable height cheek rest, vertical adjustment of the butt plate/pad, and for me, the right to left cant adjustment of the butt plate/pad to properly adjust shoulder fit-to-rifle plumb with crosshairs. I do not know anyone who can get this last aspect right without the pad R:L adjustment, even with a bubble level. Sadly, it’s one of the most overlooked items on otherwise adjustable stocks…

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Tommy, Cheers

[@BH-by5ky]

Like how you included that 1/2”, Sam is appreciative. Good explanation of ergonomics. Personally prefer my scope a bit high so don’t have to scrunch down, especially as I get older. Like you say, consistency is key to getting that correct sight picture.

[@Gunsgame1966]

Some experts need to watch your vids mate

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers Man

[@Gunsgame1966]

@ Ron Spomer for one ! I see him holding the scope down all the time recons it’s a great trick 😂

[@jimb1947]

Makes a lot of sense! Great video.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Jim

[@gerrittenberkdeboer7763]

Good explanation.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man

[@abbeybremner4162]

Its all about what fits your neck length best. Im short wif short neck and I need no “scrunch up” on my traps to find the scope. Long neck- higher scope will be more comfortable and easier to get quick cheek weld.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@hbracerx]

Nice information. Pretty much how I set up our trap shotguns, super important for the second shot of doubles.... Glad to hear I can get my scope off my barrel:-)

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks man, Cheers

[@stillair1]

Thanks for the video, that explains nicely what centreline chassis hope to achieve.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks man

[@rosalindstewart7013]

All makes perfect sense, thanks for the info Mark, hope Sam is well, take care and stay safe cheers Yogi ✌️

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Yogi, Cheers

[@GummeeH3]

PRS shooters grab their rifle there (scope) to reduce the wobble zone. Some go even farther and brace the scope against what they're shooting from in efforts to reduce wobble. It works. There are other ways to reduce wobble, but that isn't due to bad design, just bad rifle balance

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@CB-68-westcreations]

I thought I was the only one who actually saw that. Until I started watching it, your videos and a few others.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@NelsonZAPTM]

Hello, expert here: In the fudly days of yonder past, we mounted our 4 x fixed power with coin operated turrets low enough to see through them with a good cheek weld, and when ye oldie scope fogged up, you could remove it and use the irons.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Sort all explained Nelson, but thanks for that man, Cheers

[@sidekickbob7227]

On a lot of older (german) drillings, and other combination guns, you can see the scope mounted really high. These mounts has a peek hole drilled through the base so you can use the rail or the iron sights as well. Pretty neat for quick shots, but not as good for shooting with the scope, since the cheek rest is placed correctly for the iron sights.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@wickedtrutharms57]

Scope height is dependent on a person's cheekbone to center of the eye off the comb of the stock unless you have a adjustable cheek piece. Excellent video by the way.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Well, all explained in the video...Cheers Man

[@glennllewellyn7369]

Agreed, comfort and to a lesser extent portability.

[@cameronmcandrew9745]

My point of view on it is, I myself am a larger human being, broad shoulders, larger skull, full featured face. I also like to use scopes with the capability of higher magnification with a large objective lense for quality of light transmission, given my rifles do most of their work at night. So a larger than average man, behind a larger than average scope, fit to a larger rifle than average rifle/barrel means that my sight height over bore is also higher than some would want. The only absolute certain difference I see between my rifle and how it works, in comparison to other rifles used for the same task is the allowance for poa/poi inside of 100m for harvesting game. at 20m I aim 50mm high at 100m I aim 50mm low for my 60m/200m zero. Holdover and windage appear to make no difference beyond zero an inch allowed is an inch struck that is why I have not been stressed or caught up in this issue no matter who says what. Using a possibly more typical rifle of a 40mm objective lense set low to a lighter weight profile than mine the poa/poi is about half the allowance of mine at given distance. Though on the fly I do not struggle to make those small allowances which in itself I think has tuned me to become a better shooter. That is my personal real world experience with sight height over bore mate. My old mate who taught me to shoot and hunt, as well as my father followed the low height doctrine because they knew it was the most simple shooting offered inside 200m and had nothing to do with overall accuracy potential.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Cam, Cheers

[@cameronmcandrew9745]

@@markandsamafterwork Thank you mate, keep charging guys and have a great weekend. Definitely warming up here in CW QLD.

[@davej3487]

I started shooting around 1963 at around 7 years old on a .22LR Ithaca Lever gun with a single focal scope, no zoom.. Even at that age I knew the butt had to fit the shoulder pocket and the old scope was too low. So my uncle (worked as a machinist at Boeing) milled me a set of scope rings that were 2 inches higher. I was pounding roofing nails in a board at 50 yards. In 1967 I bought my first Ruger 10/22 and fitted an used scope on it and was shooting out to 200 yards at a 1.5 MOA. Years later and my first Simi-Auto/Full-Auto was a M-16 in 1973 and that raised sight was about just right for me. Drill Sergeant noticed I could shoot real well and wanted to send me to sniper school but I did not want to do that. I was going for Signal Corp, not Infantry. But the Moto in the Signal Corp was "Shoot, Move and Communicate" I taught many soldiers how to move from just qualified as "Marksman" to "Expert" mostly on stock weld, breathing, following your heart pulse peaks and steady hold factors.

[@davej3487]

One thing my uncle did was cant the scope rings a bit to the left so the scope was moved in my line of sight as I was right handed.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, thanks Man, Cheers

[@JustplainPete]

One of the key things I have learned in my years of hunting and shooting is that you should take what most " professionals " at gun shops and ranges say with a grain of salt. The number of times i have heard completely nonsensical claims is too many to count. My favourite to this day is a bloke telling me that my model 94 lever gun in 3030 was only really good for 50- 100m, because using open sights, you cant shoot accurately any further than that and also 3030 doesnt hit hard enough past 100. Great video on a topic that should be common knowledge, but I'm sure it will be a benefit to many people 👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, thanks Pete, Cheers

[@LEXxTALIONS]

Thanks for sharing your expertise 👍👌

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Lex

[@CFurnace-72]

I have also found that with strong high quality high scope mounts they will double as a carry handle in the field.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@michaelpriest5809]

Good Night gentlemen.. thank you for the video!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Mike, night

[@peteengard9966]

The scopes on my rifles are close to the bore because it's easier to claw through the dense brush following the blood trail. Kidding. The white tails usually drop close to the hit. I don't do ELR or even long range. They both have original stocks that are more than 100 years old now.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Pete, Cheers

[@mattmcewan5806]

Very logical, Mark 👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Matt

[@Jay-Niner]

MDTs experiments on scope height were super insightful and quite funny to watch.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers Jay

[@Fudmottin]

I think it was the backfire channel where the presenter correlated accuracy with lower recoil. This falls in line with your thesis. Get the rifle to recoil as straight back as possible and have the scope height set for comfort. I hope I've got that right! Certainly at 3600 inches, a 2 vs 3 inch over bore height for the scope is not going to make a lot of difference.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Sort of, as explained, recoil control in the issue, Cheers

[@legion162]

Because I'm not a shooter, or have anything to do with guns, if I was to have to set up a sight, I think I'd practice getting the gun into a comfortable, stable and repeatable position, once I'd got that nailed, I'd put a sight on and check could I see through it from that position, I don't know how scopes adjust the height, so I guess I'd use shims or something to move the scope up or down until it's in the right place, and be damned if it's really low or really high, as long as I could get accuracy and repeatability

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@tomparker5000]

Aftermarket cheek risers on all my hunting rifles, and tall scope mounts. I'm not great at quickly estimating distance of game compared to my scope zero distance. So, the point of impact is never more than 2" above or below line of sight. Easy.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Tom, Cheers

[@docbob3030]

Great video as always Mark, but there's one little thing I'd like to add that you didn't fully explain about rifle designs old and new. That is the fact that they never had Scopes in mind as their primary method of aiming the rifle from the factory. Obviously open or iron sights were their primary design focus, hence the drop stocks and the built in ergonomics for the user to line up targets with barrel mounted sights. Maybe the popularity of mounting Scopes so low on top of the barrel came from the belief that you had to get the scope as close to the original open sights as possible to retain the factory accuracy of the rifle 🤔

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@LuluBear974]

Nice video. But you forgot one important point... Regarding accuracy, the higher the sights, the lesser the unintentional cant you'll inadvertently be able to put in your shot, it's just anatomy and trigonometry. This is why the 1970 Famas F1 with his super high peep sights, is so accurate up to 600 meters...

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@DrAgan_tortojed]

Interesting. Thanx.

[@markandsamafterwork]

You're welcome

[@stephencarroll6014]

Another reason why the lower scope and lower check rest is practical is getting the cleaning rod down the bore if the check rest is not adjustable.

[@markandsamafterwork]

OK, yep, if cleaning your rifle is the most important thing, I agree, a low scope can be a good thing too, lol, Cheers

[@carlosugarte1450]

Old school Ron Spomer followers will be pulling their hair after watching this video! I get the "that scope is too high" cry constantly at the range . Besides, at 57 , my neck refuses to bend that low! Lol.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers Carlos

[@solreaver83]

I was taught low scope is for paralex. Set for 300m shooting at point blank ranges it takes less adjustment.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yeh nah, lol, Cheers

[@oldguysrockon]

Thank you.

[@markandsamafterwork]

You're welcome! Cheers

[@chrislang5659]

Speaking of an AR style rifle, I put an optic on top of the carry handle of mine and found myself way more comfortable and able to shoot better. The scope is almost 4" above the barrel. The rifle could care less where the scope is mounted!😅

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, yep, Cheers

[@chrislang5659]

@markandsamafterwork 🫡

[@pawelsokolowski]

What about iron sights ? They are pretty low in most of rifles. Should we make them higher ?

[@markandsamafterwork]

Some have them, otherwise all explained as to why or why not, Cheers

[@leewilkinson6372]

This is AWESOME! I wonder if I am fully understanding, though, so could you clarify one point? Is it fair to say that you're trying to get the bore of the rifle as close to inline with the center of the "ball" of your shoulder, or is there a different point on your shoulder that you're using?

[@markandsamafterwork]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/eHekmGSNfM2DeZo

[@leewilkinson6372]

@markandsamafterwork excellent! Thanks. Subscribed.

[@ThreenaddiesRexMegistus]

Nothing worse than watching someone shoot with their chin on top of the comb, and seeing them hunching to line up a too-low scope is just as bad. When I started out most of the European stuff had dropped combs that were fantastic for feeding recoil into your face. Roy Weatherby got it about right with a slight lift to the rear. Nowadays we have adjustable combs for a decent cheek-weld. Great video! 👍🏻

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@davidhandyman7571]

Some are experts and some are "x", "spurts". "X" is either an "unknown quantity" or a "has been" and a "spurt" is "a drip under pressure". If the target is close to the shooter (say under 10 metres) there may be some advantage (keeping line of sight close to trajectory) but any "normal" distances and certainly longer distances, the line of sight intersects the trajectory twice no matter the distance, hence, the height of the scope has more to do with ergonomics and comfort. I am not an expert by either definition.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks David, Cheers

[@dennissorensen8765]

I suspect that the theory stems from the hunting community, where occasional users will often zero at f.ex. 100 meters and then climb up in an elevated position and sometimes will have to shoot at f.ex. a 45 degree downward angle at only a few meters distance, where you have to remember to compensate for the distance between the centerline of the bore and the crosshairs AND the angle at whoch the bullet arrives at the target in respect to the heart and lungs. That goes very wrong quite often in the heat of the moment. So in that situation it would probably be beneficial to have a low mount in order to minimize the discrepancy between point of aim and point of impact.

[@markandsamafterwork]

The 1" difference at that range does not add up to relevant in reality, but yes heard the story many times...Cheers

[@dennissorensen8765]

@markandsamafterwork really? I bought it HL&S. 😅 It sounded so logical that it would minimize the risk of just grazing the target animal. 🙈 But hey, if you say differently, I'll tend to believe you.

[@misterlewgee8874]

I liked Leopold VX3-L. for low mounting....I thought a lower scope made for a longer and tighter mpbr...for closer range work..ie..rabbits.....also may suit rifles with a lower comb ... ... MDT have a scope height video showing that scope height doesn't matter...with a scope mounted rather high..per accuracy.. I like the ergonomics and recoil description. Thanks

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@battru8302]

Always enjoy your videos. However, I’ll keep mounting my scopes low. My justifications make sense to me. Still enjoyed your video and it might be better for others.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@johnpaolonejr1299]

Thank you for another great video. Could i bug you with a scope question? Is a 4.5x18x52 a big enough scope for high powered silhouette matches using half scale animal targets?

[@johnpaolonejr1299]

The longest distance is 500 meters

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks John and yep, Cheers

[@ronniealexander8967]

Ok. Thanks a lot for touching on this subject again. First of all I value your advice very much. With that being said, you have kinda confused me a little bit. I’m having an issue with scope hight as I send this. I have always mounted my scopes as low as I could with at least 1/8” clearance between the bell and barrel. I don’t think it makes the scope more accurate, I think it makes the shooter more consistent, which helps with accuracy. Doesn’t mounting scopes low help with some of the unknown like distance, being the bullit path and the line of sight being closer together? Seems to me when the bullit starts to drop, you’re still going to be closer to bullseye at say like 400yds. with a scope mounted lower than higher. Right? I hope I explained what I’m trying to ask you so you understand it. I realize I’m not the best at that. TIA

[@ronniealexander8967]

Oh, as far as with my issue, I have about 1/8” clearance between the bell and barrel. But my chassis is not designed for that hight because even with adjustable cheek rest, I can’t hardly get low enough to see through the scope easily with it adjusted all the way down, therefore, no cheek weld. It’s a 6 Creedmoor with a 5x35x 56 mil scope.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Well... All explained in the video, Cheers Ron

[@glennllewellyn7369]

Ex: Someone that was. Spurt: A drip under pressure. Thanks for your/commenters advice the other week regarding parallax. A bit of revision is always good.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Glen and yep, lol, Cheers

[@JM10344]

Nice, you have Joe watching.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks man, Cheers

[@Gmamounis]

I need a muzzle break: .90 5/8x24 brick...suggestions ???

[@markandsamafterwork]

Links below video

[@RandomRants525]

Woodn't a Woodstock be able to be shaped to any position? If it is shaped to go down it can be shaped to go up. I think maybe it's more of a traditional look thing. And the manufacturer just makes a few different models, selling more product. All my powder fired rifles (Damn air rifles being called firearms) have wood stocks and being a Yowie they don't really fit me properly but I make it work. I nearly bought a Taipan Wlide because of the modern design and adjustablity but decided to get a Winnie sxr2 30 06. And it comes with some angle shims for the stock I can play with. Any suggestions? Do I go down so it raises sights up (No optics as yet want to get used to it first(code for after rifle purchase and ammo I'll never be able to afford a scope))to line up with my eye and fits my shoulder better? Or up so it lines the stock up with the barrel more and hold it a bit high on my shoulder? But pretty much no matter what you do you will allways have some of the up recoil triangle. Is there a set up anywhere that lines the recoil up with ya shoulder perfectly and down periscopes to the scope because it would be really low? Sorry for so many questions.

[@markandsamafterwork]

This should help, kzbin.info/www/bejne/fHyzg2edls6Yick

[@thecrustyoldcolonel]

I've said this many times over the years. Been told numerous times I didn't know what I was talking about. SMH

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers Man

[@bossatronking3426]

Bullet path is curved ,light travels in a straight line.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, Cheers

[@grahamjones5627]

I just watched open range yesterday

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@RICHARD-mn3nd]

Good Morning.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Morning

[@Guide504]

Scope higher allows for easier cant mitigation as it is more obvious.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@ahaywood89]

I remember the video that MDT did with something like an 18in scope mount to demonstrate how height over bore doesn't effect accuracy. But i haven't seen anyone show how butt pad height with height over bore is the best way to control the load path of recoil. Why is it that some of the most obvious and intuitive things still take someone to explain it the right way to see?

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Yep, Cheers Man

[@darrenkingston9912]

Good job brother keep them comeing love your vids 🇦🇺🇦🇺🦘🦘🍺🍺👍🏻👍🏻💯💯💯

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Darren, thanks

[@derrickrr5516]

For a moment I thought you were going to talk about a jet airplane on a treadmill.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@ca2129]

In summary, seeing your splash is important to hit stuff far. using a higher scope mount and buttpad inline with the barrel is better. For non engineers.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@diggerdug6247]

Excellent video Mark. On another note, the tracking on your voice got a little out of wack towards the end of the video. Cheers.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@Planeiron]

Most of my scopes have high rings and most shoot bugholes at 100yds in the .1's and .2's sometimes a .0's sometimes a .5

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, Cheers Man

[@CHenry1951]

I mount my scope at a height that's comfortable for me, with the stock design comb height some high some low !!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@larryshipman248]

Sounds like follow through.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Part of it, Cheers

[@K-bob_45]

Isn’t the best location just dependent on your face relative to the comb/cheekpiece? I mean I always thought the goal was consistent position behind the scope

[@markandsamafterwork]

All explained in the video, Cheers

[@Spectrecontrol]

Very interesting

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@SpaghettiFPV-tg3qh]

The only difference you might see raising it to four and five inches high will be at 5 - 20 metres right lol Cuz it hits lower I agree with everything you said

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@chrisgabbert658]

The thing is I cant my head it’s vision deal for stability so I tend to like them high.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Agreed, Cheers

[@JDsModernMartialArts]

After watching you hitting the target 1000 yards away standing up offhand with a lever action carbine firing .357 Mag handgun rounds using iron sights, I'm gonna listen to what you say! 😮

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers Man

[@dennism8346]

For some, scope height is about making the rifle look sexy. Bleh. The scope could be way above the bore and still be zeroed. It's trigonometry. Do the math. How do you think naval cannons work? They can toss a 2 ton shell over 20 miles from a rolling ship at sea. They used analog computers to do the trig.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers