Sonic 3 Prototype - Unused Moves

[@CodeHK]

>(snip) questions remain unanswered about the purpose of these abilities What do you mean? It says the purpose right under the shield names. From left-to-right, top-to-bottom: Flame: (Just an) attack. Fire: You can walk on fire. Immune to fire-based attacks. Bubble: You don't have to take a breath. Water: Your movement underwater is fast. Wheel: You accelerate quickly. Mirror: You reflect bullets. Magnet: You stick to metal. Thunder: Eliminates all enemies. Requires time to electrically recharge. Enemy: They fly themselves towards enemies. (This probably became Hyper Tail's ability) Block: Guards against as many attacks as there are blocks. Heavy: Your feet get slower. Wing: Your jumping power gets stronger. Edit: Fixed a mistranslation

[@SilverSonic1992]

Ah, good catch. Apologies for that, it was meant to be a conclusion statement about the abilities in the prototype.Thank you for the translation! There's another one here too, have you seen it? info.sonicretro.org/images/f/fc/Sonic3K_MD_Development_Barriers2.png

[@CodeHK]

@@SilverSonic1992 I have not seen this before. Here's tranlsations for this sheet. Iron Ball: Attacks in a wide area. Ring: During set intervals, you gain rings. Brake: You can stop instantly. Spin: You can always be in a rolled up state.

[@SilverSonic1992]

​@@CodeHK Impressive! Thanks!

[@HyperKirb5730]

ngl it'd be cool if some of these showed up in a fangame or smth

[@ChSjRi]

These are all cool, but they're just too many and some of them inefficent and unbalanced. I can see how they ended up combining almost all of them together into the shields we know today.

[@frostgamer9820]

This would explain why Super Mecha Sonic has a ring shooting attack

[@Preteristboy]

It's funny how the idea of throwing rings never truly went away, it just changed form. - Super Mecha Sonic can attack by fire rings in all directions. - Tails' Skypatrol has Tails attack with a Boomering that returns to him after being tossed. - Sonic Xtreme was going to have Amy attack by throwing rings. - Sonic Battle has Sonic throw a ring to set up his ground power attack, Sonic Drive. - Tails can toss Dummy Rings in Sonic Heroes if he's ran out of partners to toss and in 06. - On that note, Sonic X has Tails and other characters toss Sonic power rings to power up his spin attack.

[@vittosphonecollection57289]

Also the Sonic Xs Flash game has Sonic throwing rings as the only attack

[@JoeContext]

Even in the movies, though there it's not an attack.

[@clonefighter1996]

I can imagine some of this eventually inspired the Ringslinger mechanics we see in SRB2, too. Maybe other fangames also make use of it?

[@gigaslave]

The Dummy Rings are also a throwback to Tail's bombs from Tails Adventure.

[@BareKnuckleBlaze]

Using rings... To collect rings? Sick!

[@SilverSonic1992]

We call that investing!

[@maxisdead2153]

​@@SilverSonic1992Well Sonic does say he used to have savings back in Sonic X. 😅😅😅😅

[@thomasverslycken2563]

Fun fact: while the ring throw didn't make it to sonic's final game moveset, a buffed version of this ability was re-used to dodge instead of use as it became the attack super mecha sonic MK.2 always uses right before before going back to base form for a couple of seconds

[@I-like-Sonic-91]

Well Sonic did say that he's King of the Ring!

[@AbsnormalCoolest]

when tf he say that

[@I-like-Sonic-91]

@@AbsnormalCoolest On this (rather obscure) song: kzbin.info/www/bejne/onKyc4NrdrGrpsksi=2_E9leZxfzf0lq5u

[@AbsnormalCoolest]

@@I-like-Sonic-91 listened to one second and oh no its the same album as they call me sonic im not gonna hear any more than that

[@I-like-Sonic-91]

@@AbsnormalCoolest What? Did you expect for every Sonic the Hedgehog song to be rock?

[@AbsnormalCoolest]

@@I-like-Sonic-91 no i just hate that album specifically sonics voice is way too annoying

[@RedTygon]

Here's a fun fact, the rock shield seen in the concept drawings was repurposed in the fan game Sonic Time Twisted.

[@AuntieAliasing]

2:23 Sonic 3: Fighter Sonic (GBA)

[@SilverSonic1992]

Wow, that's an obscure reference!

[@SomariTheAdventurerJam6]

as someone who played that bootleg a lot, i'm kinda suprised it took this long for someone to reference it, tho to be fair you can do that on the ground as well and it doesn't have a knock back effect

[@Green_todd_sm]

what an amazing thing silver sonic, How sad that we may never know the true purpose of the ring-throwing movement or why it was discarded/what it was planned for in the first place, excellent video! ❤

[@thesmilingman7576]

I think it was a Super Sonic ability

[@thesmilingman7576]

Since Super Mecha Sonic can also throw rings

[@SilverSonic1992]

@@thesmilingman7576 This is my personal theory as well.

[@leogio8093]

Reminds me more of the tether ring thing from Knuckles chaotix

[@GMaster4308]

​@@leogio8093 Maybe this inspired that in some way?

[@RedPolarBearRanger]

The air dash reminds of the homing attack and the lightspeed dash from Sonic Adventure which I think that scrapped ability could have inspire both the homing attack & lightspeed dash.

[@szszabolcs9582]

No it became the Hyper dash😂 But it is simillar to the homing attack, BTW all of the elemental shields became a move for Sonic later on Fire shield - Air dash/homing attack Lightning shield - double jump (Colors) Bouble shield - Bounce attack (SA2)

[@RedPolarBearRanger]

@@szszabolcs9582 either way this reminds of the moves in the Modern Sonic games but move given to Hyper Sonic does remind me the homing attack either way.

[@thedredayshow9246]

​@@szszabolcs9582 crazy how these moves became part of Sonic's moveset without the shields in later games.

[@fourhawk3875]

Idk why but Seeing the Camera freak out after doing an airdash in the proto is goofy, also like the new video formatting, keep it up

[@beanmchocolate3900]

The thrown ring mechanic seems like fun. It's sad it never got finished.

[@etgg6217]

Does it remind U of satam?

[@beanmchocolate3900]

@@etgg6217 Yeah, the one that never got past the concept phase based on the saturday morning cartoon.

[@Peepimus]

“Oh, yeah, it's all comin' together.”

[@hattoripool1533]

The first ability was definitely reused for Hyper Sonic

[@enzo-d4k]

classic sonic homing attack confirmed

[@SilverSonic1992]

You'll have to wait until Sonic 3D Blast...

[@Terralventhe]

It's neat how the Air Dash move went on to become the Homing Attack in Sonic Adventure.

[@nickm4406]

KZbin has trained me to believe this was going to be an analog horror video Informative and neat!

[@bladewolfdarknight1605]

With this new video formatting, you honestly remind me more and more about NomadColossus, and for me it is honestly a big plus! Keep it up!

[@SilverSonic1992]

Thank you, it means a lot!

[@-hamburgerman-]

Classic Sonic not having such a little amount of moves and probably developing even more in mania would be the good future 😢

[@sj1productions68]

What if the ring-throwing move could've been used to summon the special stage ring in certain areas of the stage, similar to how the rings work in the Sonic movies.

[@SonicPlayer2004]

Then I doubt it would need the ability to collect rings and destroy badniks.

[@sonic2isbetterthan3]

never actually seen anyone cover something like this in my experience, glad it got reccomended to me!

[@TheDoomsdayzoner]

Ring Throw was later reused on Super Mecha Sonic Boss for Knuckles.

[@CoolDudes-j2d]

1:39 I like when he change the sound to chrome gadget

[@ssg-eggunner]

Damn the ring trow ability is sure interesting Hopefully somebody fixes collision and makes a rom hack built with it in mind

[@MrEvilbyte]

The 4 way airdash move was probably put in for debugging or testing purposes. It was one way of testing what would become the main shield abilities. They might have been kicking themselves that they didn't add the 4 way dash for Super Sonic. Since the code is practically identical in the final game, the airdash code is not responsible for the spazztastic camera (that code would have been elsewhere).

[@SilverSonic1992]

It is the fault of the air dash code because it sets the camera's horizontal offset. The final game always sets it to $2000 (hex), but here it is (probably by accident) set to use Sonic's Y velocity, which doesn't really make a ton of sense for X scrolling.

[@maplesezmewo]

The metal sonic fight as knuckles uses the ring throw ability. Never would've guessed that's what it's from.

[@ninjadj9681]

Actually glitch #1 is the first dash ability ever, which came back in modern sonic games.

[@LyraBones]

Really cool video!!! I love seeing your insight into the code!!!

[@SilverSonic1992]

Thanks a lot!

[@Sonictheoofhog4]

The air dash honestly reminds me of Sonic Robo blast 2 and it's (I forgot what it was called but it's like the homing attack but without the lock-on)

[@mr.shplorb662]

Thok

[@sonichoshiDX]

0:31 Nice to see that Sonic Hoshi (a fan game) reused this otherwise unused behavior

[@akongas]

I remember them talking bout the ability to throw rings… how interesting

[@Kratos7560]

I'd like to see these unused shield types return in a mod. Some of them even appear to use those orbital enemies' heads!

[@adrianwoodruff1885]

So the orginal idea was that while Sonic was in the air, you could press a button to do 3 different things depending on which button you press. A:Preform an air dash B:Shoot a ring forward C:Shoot a ring both left and right That would have been a bit too overpowered. And made the game too easy.

[@nossir]

wait, games were written in assembly? oh my god, i can imagine the amount of work coding, debuging and refactoring game's code

[@hypershadix1]

Oh the sonic fan hack community will have a field day with the ring throwing power up

[@kaxcommentssomethingREAL]

it's been like, 2 years this prototype was discovered and i haven't yet seen any fangame have Sonic throw rings as of recent

[@ssg-eggunner]

​@@kaxcommentssomethingREALI'm pretty sure it hasn't been fully disassembled until recently Or this specific thing hasn't been brought up before

[@ComicBoi11]

So the sonic 3 team predicted the air dash in sonic’s base moveset AND the dropdash? Watch the ring throwing ability be added as an attack in the next mainline game or something.

[@lemonadesnake]

Multiple sonic games actually had tails throw rings such as in 06

[@SilverHunterN]

Notice air dashing is in some Sonic games, including Frontiers?

[@Legoluigi26]

That ring throw reminds me of a similar move from STI's cancelled Sonic-16 (the SatAM game). Heck, maybe Super Mecha Sonic's ring attack was a callback to this scrapped move.

[@Miau0126]

The goat is back

[@testapk582]

The ring throwing is how srb2 got ringslinger

[@malachigv]

It's also possible that Super Sonic was intended to have Hypers dash, Super Sonics sparkle object has unused code to spawn a similar object to Hypers dash sparks. Though, only time will tell what it was really for

[@SilverSonic1992]

Yeah, there's a thought - it even sets the animation in a similar way to that unused effect.

[@Ryusuta]

Kinda interesting to see the Sonic 2 Sonic sprite with Sonic 3's palette.

[@SonicSega209]

The Drop Dash was originally going to be in Sonic 3 also and their is footage but was canceled and used in Sonic Mania Edit: It wasn’t a move yet it was a bug

[@Mr_waffelz]

Not true that was a bug silly goose

[@SonicSega209]

@@Mr_waffelz Oh, your right I accidentally put down it was a move but yes it is a bug

[@Yuzoboy]

The Ring Throw ability is cool and could have been used as a special move. Maybe subtract 5 rings per throw.

[@RappidRabbit05]

2:06 That would make sense, especially since the sound test in the final game features the unused "zap" sound at $40 that would have mostly likely been intended for a scrapped elemental shield, such as maybe this early planned "air jump" or whatever, and the spin sound used could have just been used as a placeholder. It's really just my theory.

[@RappidRabbit05]

4:07 Maybe that very last scrapped elemental shield at the bottom right that looks like wings could have something related to my theory!

[@RappidRabbit05]

...although that unused sound could have been used for something else, as it doesn't really fit.

[@Spawn3X5]

I realize now regular sonic double jump dash is an early version of the homing attack from adventure I need music credits its killing me!

[@JamesSturges]

Oh hey, I was sub #8,000. Good job on the video!

[@SilverSonic1992]

Thanks a lot!

[@onthedre]

Maybe the thrown ring was going to be a tails thing before scrapping it. Someone should make a puzzle hack where you throw rings to activate switches and maybe even a custom boss that takes advantage of the throwable rings.

[@gengar-1997]

The air dash looks similar to the Gold Shield from Sonic 3D (at least from my perspective). Also, I prefer the prototype version of Angel Island Zone Act 1. You can see how one changed instrument can lead to a whole different opinion on the music.

[@SilverSonic1992]

The gold shield in Sonic 3D Blast is essentially an early version of the homing attack, whereas this air dash doesn't actually track and lock on to objects, it just moves Sonic in 1 of 8 directions. I also prefer the prototype Angel Island Zone music over the final.

[@gengar-1997]

@@SilverSonic1992 The Gold Shield just so happens to be my favorite shield in all of Sonic. Also, the reason why I call Sonic 3D Blast "Sonic 3D" is because it's called Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island in Europe, and both titles share the same two words: Sonic 3D. Essentially, I wanna avoid people saying "well actually its called sonic 3d blast" when I say Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island, and vice versa. I'm basically avoiding the eternal title dispute. So we really do have some things in common.

[@JamesRoblox440]

the drop dash

[@segahatty]

All life form data... successfully copied.

[@voidroxthesecond]

What are u gonna do with that data, blud?

[@segahatty]

@@voidroxthesecond Imma pirate the upcoming Switch 2 games buddy

[@voidroxthesecond]

@@segahatty ok but what does sonic 3 scrapped abilities have to do with that?

[@segahatty]

@@voidroxthesecond no

[@PowerShows1991]

Underrated comment

[@Brax64]

Does make me wonder, with how many shields that were "things that rotate around sonic", do you think the ring toss was supposed to be a function for one of these shields, and the ring sprite is just a place holder for something else? From the image there's fireballs, bombs, vynles, and black spheres, maybe the disks or spheres were supposed to have this function?

[@SilverSonic1992]

That's not a bad theory.

[@scrunbo]

(this is a stretch) but perhaps the ring could have been a placeholder for an ability where sonic could have thrown tails(?) It could have also served as inspiration for the partner mechanics for knuckles chaotics

[@Bluesupersonicgamerofficial]

Sega in a parrale univerise we are releasing sonic 3 with the original sonic 2 sprites and all unused abiltais

[@SullySadface]

Did those balloons even have collision? Also I like the lil bit of recoil they gave the yeet

[@LilSkott]

Woah. They better implement this into AIR

[@BananaR777]

An air dash, kind of like homing attack without homing

[@tartellu5010]

Where does the sheet with all of the ideas for shields come from? Was it put out in a tweet on twitter or something? 4:08

[@SilverSonic1992]

It comes from Sonic Origins: info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3/Development#Concept_art

[@darkhall8227]

Datel Action Replay was good for making your own codes for stuff like this

[@Snowy-tails]

Fun fact:, the throwing Ring was used in a sonic fan made game called S2RB or Sonic 2 Robo Blast

[@Starlynightlight]

Wow, I love them all :D

[@rivetdev]

Any ideas what was padded out with those NOPs? I find it odd that they'd do that. Usually it's only done if you're hex editing out something to make sure you don't cause an exception.

[@SilverSonic1992]

I've seen NOPs before in the title screen and level select game modes of the final game that were switched out for move instructions that set the level select flag in both 1103 or 0408. I'm guessing that there must be something similar happening here. Maybe it was for extra initialization or a removed branch?

[@rivetdev]

@@SilverSonic1992 Possibly? I still wonder why they would go that method. I wonder if they stopped doing this after a certain point in ROM like they were trying to keep a certain structure/position for some code.

[@CJCheese0]

who knew that the ring throw could find itself into 06

[@Roach1]

most people never really seem to cotton onto the fact that mecha sonic's abilities in both his normal and super fights are not at all random the attack where he dashes forward before landing is, yknow, the air dash/fire shield attack where he jumps and bounces represents the bubble shield where he jumps and slides across the floor represents the drop dash'nt from this prototype and where he shoots rings out is, well, obvious with this video

[@droni_7920]

0:52 Maybe the Camera Would Work Like in Sonic CD Leaving the Camera Forward and Sonic Behind

[@MR.NickyRZ_229]

I didn't even know that Classic Sonic would originally have the Homing Attack. In Sonic Generations he couldn't do the Homing Attack, could it be that they are Classic Sonics from different dimensions? 🤔

[@peepeepoopooman99]

alotta ppl are saying generations classic sonic is modern sonic but... younger, instead of being an alternate version of young modern sonic... ppl say the 2 timeline thing, classic and modern stuff is retconned and its now just modern sonic and his past (so sonic mania and superstars are apart of modern sonic's past.... and not generations classic sonic's new adventures..most ppl say that at least even though its kinda baseless)

[@MR.NickyRZ_229]

@@peepeepoopooman99 There are not only Superstars/After Mania Sonic, and Generations/Forces Classic Sonic as Classic Sonics, there are several other Classic Sonics, mainly with the Modern one. That's why they say that Classic Sonic is Modern Sonic.

[@evdestroy5304]

He...doesn't? That dash move is not the homing attack, it doesn't home in on anything. It's just an early version of Hyper Sonic's Hyper Flash ability.

[@sikthehedgehog]

This is closer to SRB2's thok attack (though really, it's more like Hyper Sonic's air dash as shown in the video). There _is_ precedent for the homing attack in classic Sonic however: Sonic 3D when you have the yellow shield (albeit it goes down instead of forwards if it can't lock onto a target).

[@TheMasonGamer]

Sonic is the same character throughout the series, there is no dimension split

[@AkyraMMDandCovers]

That first one looks like an early state of that hyper boom that hyper does

[@caiofritozabr1]

probably the ring atack cast 1 ring for make this atack this is an interessiting ability sorry for my bad english -_- the first atack of distance of sonic history and what i remember unique move a distance probably will have one mod of sonic 3 what put this ability

[@ssg-eggunner]

It sort of reminds me of hyper Amy being able to trow hammers in the origins releaseof sonic 3

[@Bendilin]

Mystical Ninja Starring Sonic

[@hattoripool1533]

Makes me how many other abilities were unused that are out there

[@starleaf-luna]

with the first one, I was thinking the fire shield's dashing, but yeah, I forgot about the hyper form!

[@jboyathegamer]

These abilities would've been really cool

[@muriloblox3418]

Throwing rings remind me about the cancelled sonic Satam game.

[@oosha2000]

sonic 16

[@Astreon123]

That first one is just hyper sonic

[@DAJTheYouTuber_2007]

0:38 looks like an early version of a homing attack

[@sonic_project1994]

I’ll be honest, I find it strange that Sonic would have a double jump without being with that electric shield

[@SparklingJam]

Alternative title: archie sonic in sonic 3

[@scrapdoodle]

The airdash could also be an early code for the lightning shield double-jump

[@CiromBreeze]

I wonder if the SRB2 devs knew about this when designing the Ringslinger game mode?

[@kingkazma3246]

So both the "homing" and drop dash exist back then.

[@MoneyHoneyBunny]

Man some of these were so cool, the ring shooting! Why cant they make 2D games with crazy things like that? I was just looking at YT and 1 of your videos came up and I thought hey I remember Silver Sonic! Hadnt seen you post in forever, dumb YT algorithm. Curious what you thought of Sonic Superstars, in relation to the classic 2D sonic games and Mania? It's kind of a shame in a way that nowadays, games are so protected legally before their release, that you'd probably never just be able to access beta files to a game like Superstars. Although you could argue that because many games are released unfinished and loaded with patches that we infact PAY FOR the beta edition up front, instead up buying the final game. And as theyre updated, we go through the different stages of beta progression with a current game, vs finding them decades later. Interesting take right?

[@DamnZtar]

Is there a possible way to fight Big Arms in this prototype?

[@fourhawk3875]

If i recall correctly Big Arm’s just doesn’t exist in this build, so no

[@ElGalxo]

Is it me or the B ring ability is pretty damn similar to R-Ctrl in SRB2?

[@HiCringe]

I saw a video comparing the ring-throwing ability to the move Mecha Sonic does when you fight him as Knuckles. It may have been repurposed for Mecha Sonic to use it in that fight?

[@TheRealBatabii]

I'm wondering if they might have given SUPER sonic that dash ability, had hyper sonic not been a thing. Also, didn't tails attack with rings in another game?

[@Atrael]

The 4 way dash isnt really unused, they gave it to Hyper Sonic

[@epicon6]

I’m digging the ring throw🎉

[@Brainulator9]

How would the using the same subroutine as Sonic and Tails cause rings to act differently? Is it because rings have different hitboxes?

[@SilverSonic1992]

TouchResponse can handle different sizes. The problem has something to do with the Collision_response_list being cleared too early, I guess because it was only ever intended for the first two object slots. I haven't yet figured out when that happens though.

[@damin9913]

None of the stuff was removed its still in the game you just need a game genie to find it and enable it

[@c-4gamingcentral28]

Can you do Sonic 3 Leftovers (includes zones) that is in Sonic and Knuckles (Alone) (Sonic and knuckles without being locked on to Sonic 3)???

[@lobians]

I finally got to play it but the sound really stutters. I’ve tried Google and safari but nope. I did get it to work once but idk how. (Yes I’ve changed sound both in the game and on my iPhone)

[@JoLiKMC]

Wasn't there also a prototype "Drop Dash" move that was in the prototype but not in the final game? I seem to recall something like that.

[@bernarda1247]

that was a glitch

[@JoLiKMC]

Oh. Huh…

[@SilverSonic1992]

I debated including the drop dash in this video, but decided against it due to it being accessible in normal gameplay. For the record, the drop dash is real and is intentional.

[@JoLiKMC]

​@@SilverSonic1992 Oh, right. You did specifically say "unused" or "inaccessible" in the video. Sorry about that. As an aside, it's weird how it works. You have to press and hold _Straight Up,_ jump, then when you land, off-and-away you go. Curiously though, if you do this but hold _Down_ after pressing Up, it puts Sonic into a Super Spin Dash instead of a pseudo-Drop Dash.

[@luginess0]

I read somewhere before that this prototype was mostly used to develop 2p games. Is it true, or an interesting theory?

[@SilverSonic1992]

It was a theory proposed due to the 2P zones being more or less finished compared to 1P zones. However, leftover data from older prototypes suggests that both 1P and 2P zones were worked on in tandem, so I doubt it personally.

[@luginess0]

@@SilverSonic1992 Fascinating. Thanks for answering

[@ancestrall794]

Bro how do you manage to understand assembly code i've been programming for years but this seems really tough, but i'm motivated to get better at it for reverse engineering though

[@oosha2000]

2:47 Sonic you okay ?

[@tailslaboratorychannel4444]

Nice!

[@TheOscarGamer_]

oh man. Was that assembly code?

[@SilverSonic1992]

Yes, yes it was.

[@riqopowpow]

Y U D A I N B I O

[@awsomedude2.053]

Well i know for a fact someones gonna make a sonic 3 air mod with these abilities

[@peggymacmillan5069]

Sonic 3 has to be the best game ever. Nothing against Symphony of the Night. If shit wasn't rushed, imagine how awesome the game would of been!!! Sonic 3 on Sega, found a secret emerald stage, you beat it, you get a invisible emerald. Put in the sound test code (good luck) go to sound test on the stage select menu, play/change the tracks quickly then quickly select special stage 2 hold a hit start... If this works for you, thank me later and good luck beating that special stage!!!

[@lemonadesnake]

The ring move reminds me of tails in sonic 06