1:29:30 I said this before: Frontiers is videogame made by someone having a mental breakdown. Consider these facts: 1) After Generations Sonic Team lost some of their most talented devs; 2) Budget cuts to the Sonic IP after the massive flop of Sonic Boom; 3) Sonic Forces; 4) COVID happened. I often forget how many games were affected by the lockdowns around the world. There's no way COVID didn't affected Frontiers' development, given the time frame and whole "Project Sonic 2020" that was seemingly discarted without notice; 5) This game was in development during the drought of Sonic content post Forces, and before the first movie. Sega just didn't gave a shit about Sonic and there was talks about replacing Sonic for Persona's Joker as Sega's mascot. I can just picture the devs at Sonic Team being miserable making this game. Frontiers has this vibe of "well, that's it". The fact the story is this melodramatic tale about Sonic and his friends being trapped in what is essentially a giant graveyard and having to face the physical manifestation of Death makes me think they knew, Sonic Team knee something awful was about to happen to them or the Sonic IP had this game failed. At some point they went "ah, fuck it", and went "ooh let's add, and have that, out this as well, add giant robots and shit". If this was the end for them, might as well make most of it. Multiple Super Sonic boss fights was something Kishimoto said he wanted to do for a long time. Combat in a Sonic game was something Iizuka wanted to try again. *I'm not excusing any of the terrible design choices that went towards this game.* But I think the story behind this game might be more interesting than the game itself. Or they just wanted to ripoff BotW but didn't had the talent or resources for it.
@2ndspringtube7085 ай бұрын
From what I read sonic team was always miserable in one way or another ,even before generations,if you look at izuka’s condition after designing sonic heroes by himself damn….they also lack trust in themselves A LOT,instead of doing something themselves they most of the time copy what the fans ask for (forces) or copy popular games (lost world and frontiers) so while I understand why the games are the way they are ,as you said it doesn’t excuse the game ,if it sucks it sucks ,what matters the most is the end result
@matiosmenta5 ай бұрын
Knowing Sonic Team, I think the last guest is the most possible one, but I really want to believe that the first is the real one.
@manzanito36525 ай бұрын
I think it started as the second, but became the first one.
@BaconHairDefaults5 ай бұрын
I wanna bet its the first one AND the second, mainly because one of the franchise’s things is basically ripping something off but making it into something unique (i.e. Death Egg, Super Sonic, [kind of] Lost World in general, the personalities of literally half of the cast), and that happened here too, but they kinda gave it their all because it could’ve been the end
@blood-reaper5 ай бұрын
Here lies the dreams of sonic team R.I.P
@themissingbits63755 ай бұрын
Am I dreaming? He called the coins from Sonic, the rings from Mario… This is truly the scariest thing of all the time.
@rynobehnke82895 ай бұрын
The purple rings in Frontiers must have totally thrown him off.
@Hyp3rSonic5 ай бұрын
LMFAO
@TehJellyLord5 ай бұрын
I do believe we know, either from those leaks from playtesters or from some interview with Kishimoto, that the open zone wasn’t really intended to have much traditional Sonic platforming. Apparently, the open zone was simply meant to house the story, combat, collecting, and puzzles, while Cyber Space was meant to be where you find the traditional 3D Sonic gameplay. Like Sonic still would have been fast in the open zone and stuff, but all those copy pasted black platforming sections were all added late in development because playtesters kept saying “this doesn’t feel like a Sonic game.” I remember that quote specifically from something I just can’t find it. But it explains SOOOOOO much when it comes to the extremely basic and broke. platforming in the open zone, and why it’s all made out of stock objects that were just pasted in seemingly at random. We even have some leaked early footage of the game where the graphics look much nicer, Kronos Island is still one island and not split into three, and there is absolutely no platforming to be seen in the open zone. Gotta remember, Kishimoto himself said he spent so long “just getting an idea down” for how they could even make an open zone Sonic game and Iizuka had to beg SEGA for one more year, as the game was originally slated to release in 2021, likely without all those platforming sections and Kronos Island changes.
@Pariah69505 ай бұрын
I guess that's believable considering how odd it is to have 2 parallel objectives in the emeralds and memory tokens. So you'd just be running from puzzle to chest to guardian to cyberspace level to minigame... and that's it? Maybe the sections leading to the emeralds would still be there. But how on Earth could someone think that's a good idea for a game?
@CanaldoZenny5 ай бұрын
@@Pariah6950 It wasn't, that's what play testers told ST. So they added those floating platforms. Inside the game's files you can find that original Kronos with no floating platforms, which allegedly was what play testers played. There's also the issue that Sonic Team wanted to use Unreal Engine for this game, because it would bring more fidelity to the graphics. And by Kishimoto's account, it seems things were going well for moment, until something happened and they had to switch back to HE2. And I don't think the HE2 is suited for this kind of open world game design. There's also the issue with "Sonic Rangers", which isn't exactly the prototype name of Frontiers. According to Kishimoto "Rangers" was the codename of another Sonic game that was axed, and Frontiers inherited that same name. And Kishimoto was put in charge of the project after the previous diretor left. They were making something else, but had to scrap and restart. It is bizarre how the oldest confirmed leak for Frontiers on /v/ dates from 2019, which seems to be around the time development began. Almost like the wasted 2 years after Forces. One of those leaks had photos of game concepts for a new Sonic title. Sonic Team pitched a lot of different games between 2017 and 2018, ranging from a more traditional Sonic game, to a couple of MMO Sonic game. They ever toyed with redesigning game Sonic to look more like the movie version of Sonic (something Kishimoto said it was one of their inspirations). Sonic Team pitched those ideas to play testers to gauge interest. I think the winner game concept was one with the description that sounds exactly like Frontiers: "explore a mysterious new land, fight skyscraper sized enemies". I think the general idea was there from the start. And Sage would have a more involved role in the Titan fights, as play tester descriptions. Yeah, something REALLY wrong happened during this game's development. All the CGI cutscenes made for promotion material also hint at something that isn't reflected in the retail version. Like those cutscenes were made before the game was mostly finished. Like the beta design of the Koco; Sage controlling the Guardians to attack Koco; Amy being in Rhea's Island.
@TehJellyLord5 ай бұрын
@@Pariah6950I don’t really know how Sonic Team got to this point where, like you said with Forces, they just literally had no ideas for these games. Even with Frontiers it’s clear the only real idea behind it was “let’s make an open world Sonic game” because they spent several years just for them to land on Forces but with tighter controls and with combat and puzzles, which is effectively what Frontiers is and in my opinion the most basic thing they could have done with the premise of an open world Sonic title. Sonic Team are so out of ideas that Kishimoto was actively on Twitter after the game launched to take ideas from fans. Like I’m not necessarily trying to hate on the guy, but he just doesn’t seem to have genuinely good ideas, and it’s to the point where I’m questioning if he even wanted to be a game director and was just kinda placed in this role by Iizuka when he got promoted. I know Iizuka had some rough game ideas too when he was a director, but at the very least I think he actually came up with thought out and purposeful game design ideas, like the team mechanics for Heroes or the multiple story routes in Shadow. Kishimoto’s games so far have been like Mario Galaxy but Sonic, bad Sonic Generations but with an OC maker, and BOTW/Nier Automata but Sonic. His games do not feel like they want to make interesting takes on Sonic gameplay, it feels more like “oh I played this recently so I want to make a game like this” instead. And I say this as someone who likes Frontiers quite a bit! Like you said the basic gameplay (while I still have my nitpicks) is super fun, which elevates the otherwise broken and basic game design quite a bit. But man I’d just like the ideas to come from a place of “how can we put an interesting twist on Sonic gameplay” instead of “how can we make Sonic like these other games” lol
@justiceiria8695 ай бұрын
@@TehJellyLordto be honest, I think for now its best to let the man cook. Sonic x shadow generation should give you a better idea if he is worthy of his role as director.
@TehJellyLord5 ай бұрын
@@justiceiria869 Kishimoto is not directing SxSG, Katsuyuki Shigihara is. He was a level designer for Colors and a Game Designer for Generations, this will be the first 3D Sonic game he is directing, and so far I have a much better idea of the vision for Shadow Gens than I ever did with Frontiers lol.
@thespearmeister22515 ай бұрын
Maybe the real Sonic Game was the mods we made along the way.
@shupasopni4 ай бұрын
Actually yes.
@MuhammadIbrahim-hp4ld4 ай бұрын
Lmao
@nuggets2835 ай бұрын
Calling the rings "rings" here has to be one the most clever jokes I have ever seen in my life.
@MegaFeeso5 ай бұрын
I don’t get it?😮
@sexzyura5 ай бұрын
@@MegaFeesobecause he always used to call them "coins" intentionally
@frickerrific28135 ай бұрын
He might just be legitimately over it honestly
@ChaosAngelZero5 ай бұрын
He said the R-word! In a SWAG video! ... That's NO good.
@mitch_universe40585 ай бұрын
Oh wow, I didn’t even notice
@seagullmoe5 ай бұрын
the first episode of Sonic Was Always Good was published on August 11th 2021 this one was uploaded on August 11th 2024 beautiful
@CanaldoZenny5 ай бұрын
4:38 Pariah: "Stand proud, your game is good." Kishimoto: *cries* "What is this feeling?"
@AYTM12005 ай бұрын
@@jxzh_1😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂.
@homura-balls5 ай бұрын
lobotomy kaisen has spread to pariah's channel 😭😭
@Terminal_Apotos5 ай бұрын
He literally made the GOAT Sonic Colors
@VirtuaMaster5 ай бұрын
Believe it or not, Sonic Team quite literally begged Sega to allow them to delay the game so they could have more time. The game was only ever delayed once. Sega sucks, man. I feel bad for Sonic Team on this one.
@CanaldoZenny4 ай бұрын
It seems they were confident in this game for once, but after the abysmal feedback they got from play testers they scrambled to make the game... fun. This is where all those 4chan leaks came from. Multiple play testers complained that the Open Zone gameplay was boring because there was nothing to do besides fighting enemies and doing puzzles to level up.
@RoboticEdward5 ай бұрын
Regarding the render distance: for whatever reason every version of the game's default render distance is based on the Nintendo Switch version. Why Sonic Team chose to not increase it for the next gen console baseline is something that'll take cave paintings to figure out.
@CanaldoZenny5 ай бұрын
I can excuse having a close draw distance. What I cannot excuse is Sonic Team not using LODs to mask the draw distance and still having the platforms and rails visible to the player. LODs are 2020 videogame making, and there are tools to automatically make LODs models.
@2ndspringtube7085 ай бұрын
@@CanaldoZennytheir engine could be incompatible with those tools or they never heard of it I don’t know….while graphically it’s a decent engine it did show issues ever since sonic forces that not even modders could fix
@kieronix40715 ай бұрын
@@2ndspringtube708 They actually used a tool like that called InstaLOD. Idk what they used it for though cause it doesn't seem like they used it in the gameplay.
@rynobehnke82895 ай бұрын
@@CanaldoZenny I''m pretty sure most of the assets from the first stages of development work like this (think of the super structures you can see from anywhere on the island) The draw distance problem is unique to the generic platforming and rail elements presumable because they were originally not intended to be used as heavily as they ended up being.
@kilometersperminute41135 ай бұрын
My theory is that they can't implement it as an in-game option. The Switch version already uses crusty textures so it's not like they don't have an additional process in making a separate switch version?
@2ndspringtube7085 ай бұрын
21:04 oh boy…believe me A LOT has happened ,and even more so according to Kishimoto the game wasn’t even directed by him at first ,he never got the job until 2019 and the game had multiple directors before him and wasn’t originally an open world which definitely lead to massive changes in a little of a time span ,which means development becomes more hell
@mrmelonman28935 ай бұрын
💀 nah this shit is crazy
@JakeThehedgehog-m1x2 ай бұрын
What the hell!? So the fact he managed to deliver with this game despite the hell development they've been through is actually impressive and impossible to me.
@shamaboy115 ай бұрын
This game is so fucking strange to me because despite punching it down a lot for its glaring flaws, I still enjoy playing it whenever I decide to replay it. I expected my opinion to change after the honeymoon phase wore off and I became more critical of it, but that never happened. Instead, I find myself unable to stop playing until I complete an entire island. Since day 1, I have always acknowledged that this game is such a duct-taped-together mess that I can absolutely see a lot of people not liking it at all. I will always see it for what it is, and yet, despite viewing it with that lens, I still enjoyed Sonic Frontiers a lot. It has reignited my passion for the franchise. If it was just another Sonic game that I found to be a dreadful experience, it would have further cemented my decision to avoid the franchise like a plague as I have done after Forces came out for 4 years. It wasn't until Sonic movie 2 reminded me why I really loved Sonic, despite its many, many bumpy roads after replaying the older games. Hell, I probably wouldn't even watch your 'Sonic was always good' videos 😅
@codesavei96134 ай бұрын
I still most of it is because Sonic is a perfect character for Open World Design since he is traversal personified.
@minty66234 ай бұрын
Frontiers is like one of the best 7/10 games out there if you want to describe it some other way. It's crazy to imagine where the pieces of this game landed to create the strange yet confusing and cool mess Sonic Team was making
@CanaldoZenny5 ай бұрын
23:23 In my opinion the saving grace of Sonic Frontiers is that the playable character is Sonic the Hedgehog. One of my biggest pet peeves of open world games is the slow traversal. You have these giant maps, and slow ass characters. You can get vehicles or animals to speed up, but that often comes with something inconvenient in the way. You give up and use the fast travel option, because even the devs know walking from one point of the map to the other get stale after a while Frontiers solves this issue by virtue of being a Sonic game. All player characters are super fast and can do crazy BS skip that running the entire map doesn't get boring, because it takes less than 3 minutes, and it is fun to run around nabbing rings and memory tokens in the way.
@2ndspringtube7085 ай бұрын
Welp glad Arkham knight had the Batmobile ,it was fun to drive around with it especially with the destructive environment which also made the chases more fun
@kobaltsteel64185 ай бұрын
The first successful strand type game, am I right?
@AYTM12005 ай бұрын
This is actually a good point, I feel the same way.
@mio31995 ай бұрын
bro i can't even enjoy gta as much once i can just spam helicopters cheats to travel 💀
@TeltStory3 ай бұрын
The travel is the most fun part of frontiers
@sebastianmartinez59635 ай бұрын
"These boss fights are also garbage and I know people really love them, but people love them because of the music, and the hype, and the epic moments, and the cool animations, and stuff. Nobody likes these for the gameply because... It's not good." As someone who likes Super Sonic boss fights, it hurts to hear those words.
@Kujaguy5 ай бұрын
Right? I'm here for the spectacle. I don't particularly care about doing deep tactical combat in a Super Sonic boss fight. I got the chaos emeralds, I'm ready to thrash the enemy.
@kilometersperminute41135 ай бұрын
@@Kujaguy The thing is, it's possible to have both spectacle and gameplay depth at the same time. The combat system is fundamentally flawed (eg. most moves being alternative means of "doing damage), and it carries over to the Super Sonic fights which is a shame because those are extremely hype moments that deserved better.
@lambousginiguccigod20075 ай бұрын
@@kilometersperminute4113so true man, honestly the combat system needs a complete makeover. The boss fights still are the pinnacle of the game but if only they were more fleshed out and polished along with a real combat system it could go from epic to master piece pretty fast.
@mrmelonman28935 ай бұрын
@@lambousginiguccigod2007this. Alot of the problems with the game could be fixed or replaced easily but the combat has to be remade from scratch. Personally i thing something like kingdom hearts would work well for sonic
@Kujaguy5 ай бұрын
@@kilometersperminute4113 If this game had the werehog battle system from yesteryear people would still hate it for having too many pointless moves and default to the highest damaging move anyway. Having multiple finishers is fine for a game where you're playing the in the moment and not trying to time attack the game. I understand that it isn't the best character action combat system, but I play DMC for that.
@Talxic5 ай бұрын
We quite literally have reached the endgame of sonic was always good. After almost three years lol, thanks for all the videos pariah they’ve been really interesting, entertaining, and sometimes dreadful because of all the awful drama thats surrounded them here and there. Unironically these are some of my favorite videos on the platform, really cool analysis’s of some of my favorite (and least favorite) games.
@Pariah69505 ай бұрын
We've got plenty more to go. Dream Team and a whole bunch of fan games.
@Talxic5 ай бұрын
Yeah i kind of figured but this is basically it for mainline after dream team, anyways excited to see the fan games get covered!
@VirtuousAezon5 ай бұрын
More sonic brainrot... noooooo...@@Pariah6950
@adedakevwe19575 ай бұрын
Hi Talxic
@Ashly-285 ай бұрын
@@Pariah6950not to mention shadow generations in a couple months
@chaclon11145 ай бұрын
"Sonic was always good if you look at it through the right lense"
@CanaldoZenny5 ай бұрын
"Wait! The game gets really good if you install a million mods to fix the game and think about the potential it had!"
@yousefslimani995 ай бұрын
How did you comment on this video before it was uploaded?!
@Ivan210bluboi5 ай бұрын
@@CanaldoZenny "Don't even bother with the original version! The game is really bad like that. My opinion is objectively right, don't ever play the original relese and use all the mods I give you."
@deanmoriarty60155 ай бұрын
“this game had a lot of potential if you simply imagine it as an entirely different game made by competent developers with an actual vision for the game”
@sonicwhite915 ай бұрын
@@yousefslimani99Pariah releases videos early for free on his Patreon and Ko-fi
@SaddieMoon5 ай бұрын
48:47 For anyone wondering, the only reason why many people doesn’t want 2D in the Boost Games is because they just want a fully 3D game.
@rynobehnke82895 ай бұрын
I do want to preface this just to be clear I don't think Sonic Frontiers is a flawless master peace or anything like this, Its clearly a very flawed game that had a dramatic late development shift in its whole structure. I have to say quite a few of your criticisms are hard for me to take serious as you call things "bad designed" when in actually its just "not fitting with my preferences in a video games" That is especially true for the main island progression which I find the most fun thing swinging my self form island challenge to island challenge trying to get as many tokens on the way from point A to B and slowly uncovering the map is my favorite part of the game loop. Because I have so much freedom to decide where I go when I go there, how I get there, finding what ways are possible, what rewards I could try to gain on the way there. Many of the interrupting cinematic that annoy you so much don't cause any issues for my self because you know I don't try to time attack a god damn open world here. And obviously the big Titan fights that you look at entirely from a gameplay perspective thinking that they don't make for a decent challenge while I don't care that they are easy they are well enough designed to sell me a power fantasy and that is far more important to me. As such does your accusation that most people just gas lite them self seems in bad faith as you argue it from your point of view were the main game loop was one of the least fun aspects of the design for you (and of cause would many initially start skipping large chunks of Oranus island. Not only are the token request so huge suddenly that even if you get as many as you can while unlocking the full map won't get your over halfway there anymore causing a lot of busy work to pop up but also as you said is it the same gameplay loop as the previous 3 island with a visual setting already seen twice before and just about everything no matter how good will start to get boring if there is to much unaltered amounts of it. I get bored of Sonic 2 halfway through it usually for the very same reason. This is actually perfectly shown by Final Horizon as like you said you don't have to do any of the side content yet most did it anyway) This difference in what different people want especially out of 3d Sonic in general becomes even more apparent in Final Horizon as I really dislike the Cyber Space stages of Final Horizon in part because they (just like the new towers) lack checkpoints and I hate having to re-do the same stuff over and over again just to get back to the one place were I made a mistake. But also because all of this "spin dashing off a slight slop to jump 3 kilometers ahead" and general sling shot design is something I really don't like I know a ton of fans want this stuff because most 3d Sonic fan games are designed like this BUT I ALSO DISLIKE TO HATE ALL OF THOSE TOO. Non of this is to say that everything you said was wrong but I just wanted to clearly highlight that a lot of the difference between what you see other people think about the game and what you your self think about it comes down to what one personally even likes about this game or Sonic as a whole for that matter
@lks195 ай бұрын
Well, I clicked the video and read the comments. Looks like they planned a meeting so everyone could come here to hate the game lol. Some of the critics are valid, and of them are not due to extreme exaggeration.
@tylerparkes-jk7uv5 ай бұрын
25:38 "Why are we even putting puzzles in a Sonic game? Isn't this supposed to be a physics-based high-speed action platformer? But you know got to chase them trends, baby." Dont know why, the way he says that statement is funny.
@runningwithscissors86125 ай бұрын
It’s equally frustrating and kind of hilarious to see indie games easily translate Sonics concepts to 3D while Sonic Team is running around 25 years later still trying to figure out how to make a Sonic game
@lambousginiguccigod20074 ай бұрын
That ultimately depends on what game the player wants to begin with. You can’t really find a generations or unleashed level quality indie game. Forces yes but forces isn’t good
@grthjryrd75524 ай бұрын
@@lambousginiguccigod2007 >implying unleashed or generations is high quality
@Hyp3rSonic4 ай бұрын
@@grthjryrd7552🤔
@Hyp3rSonic4 ай бұрын
@@lambousginiguccigod2007Uh... I agree that Generations is great. But not Unleashed
@lambousginiguccigod20074 ай бұрын
@@grthjryrd7552 *
@kieronix40715 ай бұрын
This is something minor but it's kind of a misconception that Lost World, Forces and Frontiers were made by the same team. Besides Kishimoto and like 3 other people all 3 games have completely different teams. Sega basically just puts new graduate hires onto the mainline games.
@blueberry85655 ай бұрын
Right.
@kieronix40715 ай бұрын
@@blueberry8565 ?
@blueberry85655 ай бұрын
@@kieronix4071 I was just agreeing with you.
@yoshihammerbro4355 ай бұрын
Right.
@Terminal_Apotos5 ай бұрын
They even confirmed that they purposefully brought in tons of New Hires for this game who had only worked at SEGA for around 3 years max.
@Павел-ы1и9ь5 ай бұрын
1:39:12 - "Sonic Was Always Good if you look at it through the right lens" And this is a problem. If Sonic games can't always be good, they aren't good for most people. Criticism of the game is very constructive, so it hurts to realize that the series is still not in a good path.
@theimpersonator70865 ай бұрын
I remember a friend of mine going "Sonic was only good in the Genesis days," and I dont think they were a IGN fan lol. Fact is that inconsitent output for a franchise will make said franchise less popular and more disliked, looked at what happended to Star Wars.
@charg1nmalaz0r51Ай бұрын
i dunno, i think the soinic fanbase has critisized every single thing they have tried to make to the point i dont think the fans or sonic team knows what to do anymore.
@Laekith5 ай бұрын
I'll never forget the first time I heard Undefeatable for as long as I live. Also the flinging and rail launching are just so good and make exploring the islands so much fun. And, despite the pop-in, I think the islands are beautiful. (Also the Koco are way cuter than the Chao, fight me)
@lks195 ай бұрын
I won't fight you, but I'll come back when they bring Chao in the modern games again (it won't happen anyway).
@Laekith5 ай бұрын
@@lks19 you like Rin so you're cool anyway in my book
@CanaldoZenny5 ай бұрын
Who ever in Sonic Team asked for Kellin Quinn to sing the Titans themes probably saved the entire game's reputation. According to Kishimoto the original plan was to have sad music playing during the Titan boss fights. He said the "I'm with you" theme that plays during The End's final boss was the kind of music they were going for originally.
@CanaldoZenny5 ай бұрын
21:46 Frontiers was supposed to release in 2021, accordingly to leaked play tester info and Sega's promotional material way back in 2020. Anyone remember Sonic Project 2020? Iizuka said in an interview he had to beg Sega for 1 more year of development time. I believe this is when they out there floating platforms and rails in the open zones. Beta tester leaks on /v/ dating from way back in 2019 up to 2021 all said the open zones were vast empty lands with nothing yo do besides puzzles, Cyberspace portals, and combat. Not a single play testers ever said anything about floating platforms and rails, the open zones were discribed as giant hub worlds for the Cyberspace levels, which was supposed to be the meat of the game. There's also a leaked betw footage of Kronos that depicts Kronos before the splitting, and there's no rail or floating platforms anywhere to be seen I believe what happened is that the game was being developed in sort of a black room and ST was very confident, but when they had pkay testers play it for the first time, they got bored and complained there's nothing to do. So Sonic Team panicked and delayed the game in 1 years and cobbled together something to fill these open zones.
@kilometersperminute41135 ай бұрын
Cyberspace doesn't exist until very late into production. There are no leaks about cyberspace, and judging from the reused level layouts and themes, there's no doubt the development window for cyberspace and the open zone platforming is very tight. One tester got to fight Giganto and didn't mention any platforming at all (maybe it's in development by that time, but if they were developing it so far back it wouldn't've came out in the state that it's in, imo)
@FirstName_LqstName5 ай бұрын
I remember people hating on Heroes saying "The game is insecure about it's identity" or "It's not trying to be a Sonic game" Im so glad Frontiers has finally shown what being an insecure project from the start actually looks like.
@BladeBrigade75 ай бұрын
Huh, if anything Heroes is still a Sonic game at heart Frontiers is straight up "what if Sonic open world?" And it STILL beat Heroes' sales record by a mile, despite being insanely mind-numbing, and this is coming from somone who put in 90+ hours on this hot mess
@FirstName_LqstName5 ай бұрын
@@BladeBrigade7 You have the blatant "inspiration" copy my homework stuff with Breath of the Wild You have a whole ass enemy from Neir Automata The similar combat from Bayonette And the boss fights are heavily inspired by Metal Gear Rising All coping something else, and all failing to mimic why those games did what they did, so ultimately. I end up just thinking "Man. I'd rather be playing those other games" Which is already bad. But than they literally reuse so many assets AND level designs from older Sonic games and do it worse. And i think "man. I just wanna be playing those games instead" And yet somehow with all these different elements. You know everysingle sonic fan was thinking before release "I cant wait to roll down hills and do cool tricks with the terrain" None of that. Zero ! Have floating platforms that are slapped on everywhere
@BladeBrigade75 ай бұрын
@@FirstName_LqstName It also doesn't help that the island formula already had a standard set, and they fumbled it in 3D. South Island, West Side Island, Angel Island, Little Planet, and even North Star Island This was basically bringing the classic formula into 3D and they didn't do it. Ruins of some civilisation has been a core stage theme of Sonic since the beginning (see MZ and LZ). They had every opportunity to make this game grander than it actually was, but I suppose development hell struck this game too, from what I've read in this comment section.
@felixdaniels375 ай бұрын
@@FirstName_LqstName Saying that the bosses were merely "inspired" by Bayonetta/MGR is a severe understatement, they practically lifted entire setpieces from those games wholesale.
@lambousginiguccigod20075 ай бұрын
@@felixdaniels37can you provide comparisons? I haven’t really seen any and assumed it was because of the music (even though sonic had always had great music for its boss fights).
@seagullmoe4 ай бұрын
Pariah if he was a math teacher: This book has so... so... so MANY problems!!
@ChaosAngelZero5 ай бұрын
In conclusion: Frontiers is the Picasso of Sonic video games. Make of it what you will.
@CanaldoZenny5 ай бұрын
52:44 the fact that nobody knows this an Ikaruga clone makes me sad.
@Pariah69505 ай бұрын
I know. Just didn't feel it worth mentioning. I was referring to hacking being in the form of a shmup.
@rynobehnke82895 ай бұрын
@@Pariah6950 But you literally go over how "lazy" Sonic Team is in taking other peoples ideas so it properly would be worth mentioning that the shmup isn't just some generic shooting but a direct copy of a very specific game.
@Tea-Slurper5 ай бұрын
The Sonic series can be one of the best in all of videogames with the right mods and 100% save files.
@Sleaze-Raptor5 ай бұрын
Glad the “Iconic Wrench Throw” made a return
@sugarsmile78525 ай бұрын
From sonic boom?
@lordpeeps15 ай бұрын
Yea the homing dash is actually a bug. But they saw that players loved abusing it so much they just said fuck it and kept it in the game
@2ndspringtube7085 ай бұрын
According to kishimoto they found the bug back before releasing the game but he found it fun and could be like street fighter’s combo bug so he kept it for the players to discover it
@lordpeeps15 ай бұрын
@@2ndspringtube708 he’s based
@johnnycakemusic40695 ай бұрын
Just like Spark the Electric Jester's magnet dash
@Zejgar5 ай бұрын
Just like rocket jumping.
@Emery_Pallas5 ай бұрын
@@lordpeeps1 Idk this is a very common thing in programming, there are like several game defining Mario Powerups which are just "we fucked up his model and we found it funny"
@AraleNorimaki-b1c5 ай бұрын
He said rings, it's so over.
@yunus87505 ай бұрын
I honestly gave up when I got to the third island, downloaded a 100% save file, played all the Cyberspace stages then called it a day.
@mikester81715 ай бұрын
I just pray to god that the next game isn’t just platform spam hell. That’s one of the worser things about Frontiers, the platform spam is just ridiculous, making loops out of platforms is honestly a new low for the series. People used to crucify modders for making level terrain from platforms in sonic, now here comes Sonic Team doing the exact same thing and suddenly it’s all hunky-dory. Funny how that works ay?
@2ndspringtube7085 ай бұрын
Alright boys,we finally are here
@ocelotplush16665 ай бұрын
Yup!
@Beastmd5 ай бұрын
Thank you for criticizing the physics mods lol, most of them are just atrociously overpowered. And the Authentic pinball physics is just for polish in this game, they don’t actually change anything unfortunately
@theking83475 ай бұрын
This is literally one of those Unreal engine demos with floating rails, platforms, springs, and boost panels spread randomly.
@deanmoriarty60155 ай бұрын
I would say this is like a fan project but after seeing what actual Sonic fan projects are, that would be an incredible disservice to them.
@ReDacTedUsEr-o1b5 ай бұрын
Unreal engine demos still look better than the actual game 😭
@lks195 ай бұрын
Not randomly, but I do get your point. Only the first, second and final islands are actually fun.
@Tea-Slurper5 ай бұрын
Unity demo...
@charmyzard5 ай бұрын
SEGA hired this man. He did things. The people didn't approve too much.
@frickerrific28135 ай бұрын
I really really like your alternate titles on the Patreon. Like bro “you know if something peaks? Then it’s all downhill from there right?” Like oh my god that is such a sassy cool line!
@henriquezioto87605 ай бұрын
And Generations is that peak, obviously
@frickerrific28133 ай бұрын
@@henriquezioto8760true 😢
@spidtzz5 ай бұрын
The last line "Sonic was always good, if you look at it through the right lens." went so fucking hard man.
@AlphaDaArtist5 ай бұрын
Its so fitting for not only his review series, but just Sonic in general.
@MastaGambit5 ай бұрын
Literally anything is good if you "look at it through the right lens" 🙄........... how does that go "hard", that's like saying water is wet
@grthjryrd75524 ай бұрын
this comment is proof sonic fans have never read a book in their life
@spidtzz4 ай бұрын
When I wanna appreciate something that sounds cool to me and some smart guy tell me to not enjoy simple things
@AdamWright-t7w2 ай бұрын
@@spidtzz They are a troll.
@sunoluno5 ай бұрын
those gold circular things you collect are called coins, not rings
@gottagofastfaster5 ай бұрын
No Wumpa fruits
@akiraita5 ай бұрын
"the combat in frontiers is worse than the werehog in unleashed" is quite possibly one of the most scathing things i've ever heard anyone say about this game
@manzanito36525 ай бұрын
I mean, at least unleashed had: - Moves and combos with different properties (crowd control, damage, guard break, launcher) that aren't just cinematics were you are invincible the whole time. -A devil trigger that you have to manage (it just makes you invincible and faster, but still) -Grabs to better crowd control, or get free damage on one enemy. -More enemy variety (small, big, close range, long range, fast, flying, summoners). -Izuna drop. -The (small) possibility of enemies cornering you if you aren't careful. It's still jank, and some of the good parts seem less "intented design" and more of a accident for copying God of War, but damn.
@IZZYCHAN135 ай бұрын
Werehog, pointless form and only had relevance when furries claimed it
@Hyp3rSonic5 ай бұрын
I actually agree
@manzanito36524 ай бұрын
@@IZZYCHAN13 They claimed Werehog Sonic and not regular Sonic?
@faded9581Ай бұрын
Bro the parry can be held infinitely and all of Sonic's "attacks" are single button presses that freeze the enemy in place, requiring no consideration of position or timing. That doesn't even meet the criteria for a combat system. The game makes God of War look like Street Fighter.
@ecksdii5 ай бұрын
hey pariah, thanks for the island rush shoutout, i really appreciate it! the Koco challenges and Rhea/Ouranos towers are my favorite part of this game and i've wanted to make an easy and convenient way to replay them for a pretty long time, especially cuz searching for them from waypoint to waypoint is so boring and time wasting. at the time, i was disappointed that i couldn't use more open zone sections from the base game due to Battle Rush limitations, but after a while i realised just how forgettable most of them are (apart from signature island landmarks, like the kronos diamond or ares underground parts), so i don't regret cutting those at all lol. that being said, there were a few Koco challenges i had to exclude because of said limitations, mainly on Ouranos (the cut Kronos ones aren't too interesting imo), so if increasing the BR phase limits becomes possible in the future, i'd love to add those back. this video sums up basically all my gripes with the game, but its highs are what keeps me around, due to the "good" parts of the vanilla experience and the game's versatility when it comes to playing/making mods. anyway, i'm really happy that you and many others have enjoyed playing island rush, if you have any questions about it lmk.
@Pariah69505 ай бұрын
Thanks for making it! It's an awesome mod that I've had a lot of fun with! I did notice a few things were missing, but I assumed that was due to limitations. Not that I'm asking, I'm sure it would be a lot of work, but with the character normalizer now it would be cool to see a similar thing with the other characters using their challenges from Final Horizon.
@ecksdii3 ай бұрын
@@Pariah6950 well, good news is that now i am working on an Island Rush expansion featuring the other characters and i've just released some Tails gameplay. it's probably going to take a while to finish cuz i'm kinda busy IRL, but feel free to check out what i've done so far.
@power-c8435 ай бұрын
I Love how you bookended the series with that last quote.
@yousefslimani995 ай бұрын
He did it boys he finally covered all the mainline sonic games!
@NovaBlastPlays5 ай бұрын
21:16 There's a little more to this "rumor" than one might actually think. Apparently play testers of Sonic Frontiers during development said that the open worlds were far too large, and way too empty making it boring to run through. Also, looking at the (little amount) of footage that was leaked, kinda supports this since it briefly showed an empty open world.
@timtanium70745 ай бұрын
I'm so glad you've also leveraged the power of the homing dash. Honestly such a fun gameplay quirk that pushed me to try for my best times in the cyber space challenge thing (the one where it's all 30 base game stages in a row and you get one final time)
@lilsoonerfaninmo5 ай бұрын
I would equate this game to more Mario Odyssey with BOTWs tone Mario Odyssey with its freedom/no leash on how you progress (yes there is an end goal, but both games don't really care how you complete the big objective among several routes to take, they just ask you to complete it) And BOTW with its melancholy tone and kinda borrowed-notes of finishing off an ancient evil that razed the world X years ago, as well as shrouding itself in plenty of mystery It's far from perfect, but the attempt here of mixing two different freedom based games into one product is admirable, and the end result is more than serviceable
@johnnycakemusic40695 ай бұрын
He likes the Homing Dash? God I can't WAIT for him to start reviewing the Spark the Electric Jester games! He's in for a wild ride!!
@felipemarra41765 ай бұрын
The Final Horizon indeed wasn't playtested (allegedly).
@Hyp3rSonic5 ай бұрын
Interesting
@That1One-Guy5 ай бұрын
21:19 there’s actually a leaker that played the game when it still was called sonic rangers that said that the open world was completely empty, he also talks about a bunch of stuff we know was later removed of frontiers.
@MarzOnline925 ай бұрын
I've commented about Knuckles a lot on Pariah vids, but a game concept like Frontiers 100% fits him better. Sonic just feels very out of place in frontiers. Giving Sonic a combat system, puzzle solving & a huge, lore-heavy mystery to solve like this doesn't fit him. Of course the gameplay, level design & pacing is bleh, but the setting & gameplay elements on paper would work better for Knuckles (Especially after Sonic Team made that animated short specifically about Knuckles).
@Pariah69505 ай бұрын
Others have pointed it out before, but BotW, with it's gliding and climbing mechanics, already feels like a Knuckles game. It makes more sense for him to star in a game like this.
@jayceallen65305 ай бұрын
@@Pariah6950 yeah by like island 2 I was like “kinda wish this was a knuckles game”
@MarzOnline923 ай бұрын
@@justice8718 I'm confused. What "man" is Sonic dealing with?
@MarzOnline923 ай бұрын
@@justice8718 OK but that has nothing to do with what I said.
@MarzOnline923 ай бұрын
@@justice8718 Sure, in the most basic sense. However, the format, aesthetic, setting, design philosophy, gameplay philosophy, & storytelling from 1, 2, 3 & K, & Mania are obviously 100% different. Sonic as a character, does not fit this type of tone or narrative as well as Knuckles could've. If you think about it, as I said prior, they practically set this game up as a Knuckles game with the Divergence short they made. Knuckles as the main character for a game like this makes the most sense above all the other characters. I just don't understand what the devs have against Knuckles that they wouldn't want to give one of the top 4 most popular Sonic characters a solo game? It's just another example of Sega waisting prime creative potential.
@Zejgar5 ай бұрын
36:33 Slight correction: the parry has a time limit, it's just absurdly long (15 seconds if I recall correctly).
@Aka-Spade4 ай бұрын
My experience with Sonic Frontiers is the opposite from my experience with Sonicc Adventure: instead of liking Frontiers more the more I played it- I ended up liking it less the more I played it.
@mau21725 ай бұрын
It's weird how little attention people brought to the nonsensical amusement park design, beyond the fact that it was all floating in the sky. Like they were talking about the production value of the game as if it was some kind of AAA release. AAA games have their own type of repetitive crap but the open zones and the combat "system" are at a different level of mindless junk. There is some fun to be found in cheesing your way through this nothing gameplay but there's a point at which you're just craving like. Actual game design. Nothing in these open zones resembles the highly replayable gameplay of the sonic series. It gets tiring very quick
@Pariah69505 ай бұрын
I would say it gets tiring eventually. It's only on replay that it really hit me.
@mau21725 ай бұрын
@@Pariah6950 That's fair. I may have burnt out a little from having used this game as a fidget cube for 200 hours. Just a little. Totally not something I should've factored into my current feelings about the gameplay.
@lambousginiguccigod20075 ай бұрын
I definitely would love some “game design” also. There is a similar conversation regarding TOTK. Personally frontiers is repayable because its controls are free and fun to navigate the world with. There really isn’t much depth past that but if I’m having fun…I win.
@lambousginiguccigod20073 ай бұрын
@@justice8718 it seems SXSG will give us some really good game design, however because of that I’m a little suspicious of act 2 Edit: Rather that they just haven’t shown us it.
@GottaGoFas5 ай бұрын
Really nice video, as always! I liked the way you explained both your praises and critiques such that even when I disagreed, I could totally understand ya :)
@viewer68085 ай бұрын
Funny how twitter is mad because when nothing said here is wrong, this is a another shitty clone from Sonic Team lmao
@Hyp3rSonic5 ай бұрын
Wtf 😂 Anyways Frontiers is an extremely flawed game
@HRIgnomious5 ай бұрын
1:35:50 Should be noted that this "Homing Dash" mechanic first appeared in Spark the Electric 2, and probably like what happened with Frontiers it was a bug that the developer decided to keep in and call "Magnet Dashing". Interested to hear your opinion on this when you get to Spark 2 & 3, especially comparing how it interacts with the level design in those games versus Frontiers.
@kilometersperminute41135 ай бұрын
The developers didn’t call it magnet dashing because they didn’t even know about the spark games.
@cxmz235 ай бұрын
“Finally…. Something Interesting”
@joeser66665 ай бұрын
yoooooo it's that guy who has a lot of skulls in his comment section
@Hyp3rSonic5 ай бұрын
@@joeser6666more context? 🤔
@joeser66665 ай бұрын
@@Hyp3rSonic most of his comments have skull emojis at the end, "💀"
@Hyp3rSonic5 ай бұрын
@@joeser6666thanks
@Difegue5 ай бұрын
I think the power boost could've been a good mechanic as it finally gives you a reward for accumulating rings, and unlike the extra lives of old it encourages KEEPING the rings except they pussied out and made the cyloop spit out rings, although I'd argue it's much more fun to just run through the map anyway instead of using the loop as a crutch
@Diogo853 ай бұрын
Sonic Frontiers is one of my favorite 3D Sonic games.
@pinoy518965 ай бұрын
thank you for validating the confusion I felt when this game came out. I wanted to like this game so bad but the only thing I took away from it was the music, specifically the vocal tracks. other than it feels like a whole lot of nothing to do, meh levels, ok boss fights, and a couple epic spectacle cutscenes but nothing that makes me feel anything.
@HydraBread5 ай бұрын
Your feelings about this game are very valid, but for me, this game is incredibly relaxing. The slow and serene music, simplistic puzzles, constant pauses, and overall forgiving design makes it super chill to unwind after a stressful day. There's definitely something there, and I think that's what resonates about frontiers to a lot of people. I personally replay this game a lot, because changing the sliders, trying nightmare mode, etc, drastically change the playthrough and how you approach challenges.
@DannyBenS945 ай бұрын
I am a Frontiers enjoyer, even if the game does have many flaws. I do believe there are many aspects of this game that are a step in the right direction, they just need to improve things. And the thing about open world games for me; I try to see how fun it is to just move around aimlessly, whether I'm getting to a mission or not and/or how fun is it to do stupid crap for no reason? Games like GTA fulfill both for the most part, but while this game only fulfills the former, it's just so fun to run around as Sonic in this game that I barely think about the flaws. So if they took the fun of running around in this game and added it to a game with all the positives of other Sonic games, I would love that. So yes, despite my problems with the game (especially the pinball game and Final Horizon's difficulty), i still greatly enjoy this game overall. Not my favorite Sonic game, but definitely one of the best in a long time. I do respect your opinion though.
@buckovin5 ай бұрын
If I had a nickel for everytime someone said "sonic frontiers is a step in the right direction" id realistically have about 500 nickels.
@DannyBenS945 ай бұрын
@@buckovin oh I know lol but it is true, to be fair
@Hyp3rSonic5 ай бұрын
@@buckovinnaw, it definitely isn't a "step in the right direction" However, I still love it, despite its flaws
@invalidfile5 ай бұрын
this whole game feels like its a playtest labelled as a game you can buy
@johnnycakemusic40695 ай бұрын
New video from Pariah uploads. Pariah : I'M HERE!
@Emery_Pallas5 ай бұрын
REACHING FAR AVROSS THESE NEW FRONTIERS
@Emery_Pallas5 ай бұрын
@@crimsonzone8984 typo
@Rainyar47795 ай бұрын
I'm gonna be honest, i haven't played Frontiers for myself yet, in fact i don't own any game post Forces aside from The Murder Of Sonic The Hedgehog, and the reasons being 1. I don't have enough money, and 2. Even if i had money, Frontiers in particular, my computer just can't handle it. So i'm left as an outsider in the Sonic Frontiers discussion, there's people saying it's really good, there's people saying it's really bad, and i got no way to know anything to have an opinion on that. But, there is something i can talk about as an outsider, and that is the reason this game got so popular. First, you gotta understand the context in which this game was announced in, this was a long period without Sonic games and the last mainline Sonic game was Sonic Forces, a game that disappointed many people by promising big things, but turning out just average. It had three games with the same gameplay style to learn from, and it turned out to be the weakest of the bunch. So when after such a long time, we finally got a new Sonic game announced, and the trailer showed a generic Breath of the Wild ripoff that recycled Forces assets and gameplay, people weren't having any of it anymore, people woke up and decided they were sick and tired of this amount of disappointment from a franchise which was this popular and beloved worldwide. The expectations were incredibly low, so it could only go up from there and that's what it did, it surpassed the expectations and turned out to be much better than people thought, it may not be a masterpiece, but by the current Sonic standards this turned out to be a huge victory. People lowered their expectations so much that it became easier to surpass them. But i think we all know that story, right? It's not been that long ago, we were there when it happened, so why am i talking about this again? Well, i've noticed a pattern, this is not the first time it happened. Back in 2019, we got our first look at the Sonic movie, and it was BAD, it had a very generic plot, sure. But this was not what people were complaining about, it was all about the design, one of the most iconic designs of all time turned into an abomination. It took away the cool and the cute in favor of realism, it was uncanny. And in an era where we can perfectly translate comic characters into live action using CGI, something this bad couldn't be justified. The fact that such a beloved gaming ip was getting treated with this amount of disrespect, was an insult to the entire medium of video games as a whole. It was not just Sonic fans who were offended, the people were offended. So when the studio listened and changed the design, it was a huge victory, but here's the thing, that was the only change, the premise was still generic, it was better done than most movies of the kind, but was still very average. But that's not the point, the point of all of this is the people, our voices were being listened, that's why the movie was such a success and that opened the doors for Sonic 2 to make an even bigger success. And that seems to be the pattern with Frontiers, and with the Sonic Generations delisting. The people are the ones to consume the products and are the most important part to consider when making it. Simply the fact that they are listening to us is enough for us to support them. And that's why people say Sonic is back.
@CanaldoZenny5 ай бұрын
You're not missing out too much tbh. But the Frontiers modding community is just as big as Generations back in the day. I'd say Frontiers became more of a platform/tool for fan games more so than an actual game.
@Whyisthis-t9b5 ай бұрын
Another important thing to note is that the Adventure & Dark Age games were getting a lot of attention around this time. Around Frontiers' marketing cycle & ultimate release, the Adventure games became well liked again, 06 was getting more love, Unleashed established a cult following, & in general a game with that sort of Dark Age/Adventure aesthetic & gameplay was in HIGH demand. Frontiers was seemingly that game. The story looked to be more high stakes & intense, & the gameplay seemingly had that same open ended level design as in Sonic Adventure. When the game came out, it proved to be that, & thus people were really happy. Their dream game had finally come, hence another reason why Frontiers was so popular
@Rainyar47795 ай бұрын
@@Whyisthis-t9b That is true, thank you for pointing that out, once again this just proves my point that the people bought because the people were listened.
@kilometersperminute41135 ай бұрын
Frontiers is a game that you need to experience to know if it’s for you or not. I think there could be fanmade potato PC patches so it’s still worth to nab it on sale.
@MegaGeek-gr6ts5 ай бұрын
Shadow Generations is supposed to take what they learned from Frontiers and applying it to that game which so far they seem to be doing a decent job when it comes to levels and the platforming. I'm more curious in the open zone and how that will work, cause I imagine it's not all just gonna be the white space, perhaps having areas that resemble the level with some platforming challenges.
@kilometersperminute41135 ай бұрын
afaik it's just open zone-inspired white space, which I suppose is better than base gens
@lks195 ай бұрын
Nah, it's going to be the same thing.
@Terminal_Apotos5 ай бұрын
From what we’ve seen the Level Design is finally integrated into the World but the Level Design itself still looks similar to Frontiers
@JammyONE5 ай бұрын
Fans were that scard by Sonic Forces, Frontiers to them is the best Sonic game ever.
@shinox78925 ай бұрын
Tbf, given the timing it was released in one of the best years for gaming combined with coming out a week after Odyssey, yeah it was genuinely embarrassing lol
@deanmoriarty60155 ай бұрын
if you get fed rat poison your whole life, expired poultry will seem gourmet to you.
@sebastianmartinez59635 ай бұрын
Basically, give your public a product so disappointing that they will have such low expectations, and when they don't trust you, you give them a product that's just a little bit better than the last, and automatically your public will come back to you. That's all. It already worked once, and it will work again.
@lks195 ай бұрын
@@sebastianmartinez5963 I've seen the same comment earlier, but I'll respectfully say: this looks like an exaggerated thought. It's a good game. Not amazing, not innovative, but it does the job. Some people just can't appreciate if it misses something. I think it's just how this fanbase is; but that's okay, because the numbers tells the truth. The game was a success despite the franchise in ruins and the majority of the people really liked the game. I mean, I know I'm the black sheep here in this entire commentary section since everyone came to this video to hate Frontiers, but some things need to be said...
@Terminal_Apotos5 ай бұрын
@@lks19 It’s average at best.
@ChaosAngelZero5 ай бұрын
Could it be that the Final Horizon doesn't take place in Rhea Island because it's chock full of trees that impair visibility?
@Syper75 ай бұрын
WHAT I don’t even have to let go the parry at ALL?!
@Hyp3rSonic5 ай бұрын
@@Syper7 nope 😂
@realnova74295 ай бұрын
Probably the thing that annoy me the most is how unfulfilling the prize system of this game is, you get 6 times more collectables by opening random "chests" on the ground that doing the actual platform challenges, even Big's fishing gives much much more collectables for less time than actualy playing the game, this game just doesn't want to be played, you have to willingly ignore the most effective strategy to have fun, it is terrible design.
@LexStormA5 ай бұрын
Sonic Frontiers is carried by its controls. And this isn't even lowballing the game's quality because 3D Sonic games have consistently controlled like ass for nearly two decades. Even the best recieved 3D games still have horrible tank controls that should not be on a platforming character known for his speed and agility. Before Frontiers, the movement and game feel peaked at SA2 over twenty years ago. Think about that. It's also funny how much Pariah praises cyberspace, even forgiving the reused stage layouts because the new control scheme gives a new experience. But at the same time he's using a mod that gives you open-zone controls. Goes to show how much of a change simply making player movement feel good can make. And it's insane how ST has never strived to make this the standard until this game. Boost gameplay should have always been this
@Hyp3rSonic5 ай бұрын
@@LexStormA i still believe that cyberspace is the best part of both the base game, and TFH. However, I respect your opinion. About everything else you said, I also respect it. Very interesting
@CanaldoZenny5 ай бұрын
26:42 You can still see Koco's early design in pre-release material and trailers; when they had deep dark carved eyes. They were later redesigned to look more Sonic-y. Probably because of the story explanation of them being the ancestors to Chaos and the chao.
@jubbalub5 ай бұрын
Those are just baby Koco.
@TheLetterS_Rebooted5 ай бұрын
The koco in the final game also have deep dark carved eyes I don't know what your talking about
@faketarbo20415 ай бұрын
Erm… why are you calling them rings???? Don’t you mean rupees??You know that’s a very sensitive thing in the sonic fandom, they’re gonna come after you bro. You’re done!
@Skyrus4565 ай бұрын
I went into this game thinking exactly how you did in this review, that it was just going to be a cheap BOTW Sonic clone. Surprisingly though I came out of Froniters thinking it was the best mainline Sonic game in a decade. Granted that it isn't saying much since what we had for the past decade was Lost World, Boom, and Forces; still I really enjoyed it. Is it the my de facto favorite 3D Sonic game? No, that goes to Unleashed and/or Adventure 1 (depending on how I feel, usually Unleashed is the one that I prefer). Frontiers how ever is the closest we have gotten to a game like Adventure 1 and Unleashed. Is it perfect? Hell no. I think you put it pretty well that Sonic fans were just starved and scard by Forces, that at that point would take anything that wasn't uncomfortably mediocre. Shockingly, the more I've played Frontiers, the more I got out of it. Finding shortcuts, breaking the platforming sections, optimizing my times, and collecting things as fast as possible. I agree that they still need to properly design a game's open zone/world around all these broken game mechanics and movesets Sonic characters have. At times it didn't feel like they tried to fix the brokenly design worl and platforming. Frontiers is what I call a beautiful mess. It is messy, but in a beautiful way. Because Sonic games are traditionally broken by players to maximize time save, the broken design kind of worked in Frontiers' favor. This time, they leaned into the fact Sonic players break the level design intentional. It is the closest we have gotten to Adventure style physics in a boost game. I hope they ditch the boost style gameplay for a more Adventure-focused style or at the very least a hybrid style between Boost and Adventure. I think a lot of Frontiers' problems stem from the fact that the open world was not designed to be a platforming playground. It has been mentioned/confirmed via interviews and by beta playtesters that the game's open world did not have any traditional Sonic platforming elements until mich later in development. Originally, the cyberspace stages were the only remindent of traditional 3D Sonic gameplay. Playtesters mentioned that the game didn't feel like a Sonic game and was incredibly rough. The open world was just a glorified giant Hub World. SEGA planned for a 2021 release, but Sonic Team had to beg SEGA to delay the release a year for additional polish and platforming additions to the open world. I'm glad they did delay the game because we would have lost around a quarter to half the game as we know it. I can't imagine Frontiers being nearly as fun without the platforming sections added later in development and especially the elaborate Final Horizons platforming. Speaking of Final Horizons, Final Horizons was so close to getting somewhere that its a shame it was held back tremendously by the overpowered character abilities, non-playfitm accommodating overworld, the obnoxious Master King Coco Trial, and obtuse Supreme fight. We finally got additinal playable character playstyles in a mainline game that weren't just a different playstyle for Sonic (e.i. Classic Sonic and whatever the avatar was in Forces). The story isn't perfect mainly due to the unfitting cast, lacklaster cutscene animation, and questionable voice direction. It is also bit too self-referencal for my liking, but we hadn't had any consistence or referencing of 2000s era Sonic games in the canon in like forever. SEGA/Sonic Team was ashamed to even bring up the Adventure games, Heroes, Shadow, 06, Unleashed, Black Knight without it being in a mocking manner. Now these games hold just as much importance to the canon and lore as Classic Sonic from the 90s was and still is. I don't think that would have been possible if Frontiers was a flop for the fans or was critically panned. Sonic fans at this point will take any type of victory, oir relationship with SEGA/Sonic Team is as abusive and self-destructive as it gets for mainstream gaming franchises. The fact that they are trying to repair it at all even if they fall flat at times is better than what we got pre-Frontiers.
@otaku_randz23935 ай бұрын
1:00:31 Thank you bring this up, Sonic fans can be so damn derange to the point they harassed you on Twitter for having a different opinion about there “Peak”.
@s3studios5975 ай бұрын
SEGA! Hire this man! SEGA! Hire this man! He's using Unreal Engine in any WAY he can!
@midi_feline5 ай бұрын
Hire the man who made Sonic Souls! (it's yet another shitty fangame on that Sonic framework for UE3, but whatever!)
@lks195 ай бұрын
Hey, it rhymes!
@jonathanhargraves22415 ай бұрын
This is my 7th favorite Sonic game and the only 3D Sonic game I've 100%'d, so I can't wait to watch this.
@RyansFine5 ай бұрын
Pariah slowly doing all the Zelda games too was all for this moment
@purpleboye_5 ай бұрын
The "story of" video is gonna be so vindicating for my gripes
@manzanito36525 ай бұрын
Can't wait for the next sonic game where they try to replicate the success of frontier but instead they repeat the same mistakes, make new ones and omits all the improvements final horizons made because sega fired the team who made frontiers to replace them with cheaper recent graduated developers who never made a sonic game, because this company can't make a good decision to save their lives.
@s3studios5975 ай бұрын
I think it's less people desparately wanting to like Frontiers (though I'm sure that's absolutely a thing) and more so people liking the IDEA of Frontiers. It's an open world Sonic game with a serious story by a well-known writer in the community that actually acknowledges series lore and continuity while abandoning the unfunny, self-depreciating meta humor everyone had grown tired of. Essentially, people love the game simply for the fact that it exists. Actual execution doesn't matter that much. Kinda like DBZ Kakarot and DBFZ. People love the IDEA of an open world DBZ game and a traditional 2D fighter, so people gas them up as the greatest things ever simply for existing regardless of how mediocre they actually are. Hell, when DBZK came out, the vast majority of the praise was literally just that it's an open world DBZ game.
@theimpersonator70865 ай бұрын
Funnily enough, it reminds me a lot of Spyro the Dragon(especially 2 and 3). Plopped in a large zone, and got to do a mixture of combat, puzzles, minigames and platforming to get Macguffins, with alt game style(Flight or Cyberspace). Spyro just does it a lot better.
@jacksondavis33555 ай бұрын
Ok, but why was there so much detail and effort put into how the fish look in Big’s QTE?
@Quarckster5 ай бұрын
Since Shadow Generations' has far superior production value and the first stage that was showcased there is considerably better than the previous boost games, do you believe the follow-up to Frontiers will be much better or still stand by it, likely being a stagnant fart?
@AYTM12005 ай бұрын
I think it'll be a lot better.
@Terminal_Apotos5 ай бұрын
The level design was on the same tier as Base Cyberspace, there was just MORE of it
@Kelps.mp45 ай бұрын
He said in a livestream that he is expecting something good, but not great.
@Kelps.mp45 ай бұрын
@@Quarckster That's actually really good imo.
@Quarckster4 ай бұрын
@@Terminal_ApotosCan you elaborate on that please? Thats a really bad thing if thats the case.
@hyruleguy9569Ай бұрын
You should check out a mod called "Vanilla+ Experience". It's mostly a physics and visual polish patch that drastically improves how the game feels without completely changing the intended control scheme and movement (the spindash is an unlockable skill and it's AMAZING)
@legoboy71075 ай бұрын
I can't believe Pariah called the iconic Cocomelons in this game "rings," what a shocking slip-up there. How could you make such a mistake? I thought you were a Sonic fan, but only fake fans confuse Sonic's iconic Cocomelons with Mario's rings. Disappointed, was so looking forward to this video too.
@gamefreakDX5 ай бұрын
The way I see the reception of Frontiers when it was fresh out, particularly by fans, is that they were going through withdrawal. Like, Generations was the last genuinely good Sonic game and everything else that came out after was either middle or garbage. And since Generations was over 10 years by the time of Frontier's release, and roughly what, 5 or 6 years after Forces, I think they were just looking for absolutely ANYTHING to be hyped about, even the most absolutely mundane things. I couldn't tell if this was my own cynicism talking at the time or even still, because I actually don't like Sonic Frontiers in the slightest. Same goes for the story and its building of lore, which I'm interested in your opinions over.
@chaoraiser23385 ай бұрын
nah fr i hate the excuse that some things are kids games when these kids deserve better fr.
@Hyp3rSonic5 ай бұрын
FACTS
@Hack_Man_VII4 ай бұрын
I borrowed this from the library, and I didn't get far. I honestly just stopped playing. I genuinely just didn't care enough to keep playing. It really didn't hold my attention.
@Hyp3rSonic4 ай бұрын
Respectable
@SuperBetaBuxbros.4 ай бұрын
Library's have games nowadays?
@gradeon28485 ай бұрын
8:20 I remember there was wall running in Sonic Unleashed which was way before BOTW.
@lambousginiguccigod20075 ай бұрын
Am Mistaken? When has link ever ran on walls?
@Terminal_Apotos5 ай бұрын
Automated Sideways Quickstep Sections
@pancake55664 ай бұрын
@@lambousginiguccigod2007pretty sure he means it’s akin to the wall climbing since when ur not holding the run button, u just climb like in zelda but way slower
@lambousginiguccigod20074 ай бұрын
@@pancake5566 Tbh sonic has scripted wall climbs while link can pretty much scale whatever. I feel like they are fundamentally different and that the comparison isn’t even applicable.
@pancake55664 ай бұрын
@@lambousginiguccigod2007 yh ok fair enough
@betlergaen57575 ай бұрын
Frontiers is a weird game because if you take each individual aspect, its not the most well designed game. The puzzles are just bad or at most kinda ok, but innofensive. The platforming is really just things floating around and don't offer much difficulty if any at all, exploring is rewarded but its something minimal, cyberspace has cool levels but a lot of it is just copied from other games, the combat has a good base but falls short in execution. But despite all of this, the game still manages to be fun and enjoyable. Its gameplay loop is kinda addicting and things like the updates (mainly update 2) really made this game better and fuller. Its the most 7/10 to 7.5/10 game ever. Is it good? Yeah, its solid, but just barely. Love this game tho, really like running around and comboing platforming sections. If they take the good things from this game and improve, we could get a really good game next
@shaankelly13022 ай бұрын
"Least replayable sonic game.... maybe ever?" Im over here with 280 hours and 25 runs under my belt lol. I do play a certain way tho now where i just do whats fun to me, no combat, chain a bunch of platforming sequences together, dont do the story in the order they want, ill do a bunch of open zone shit, get the chaos emeralds, then blast through all the minigames in one go when i can. I just love moving around in this game so much its just a big open playground to me where youre doing sonic shit. Bigs minigame helps i just buy all the portal gears to avoid combat. This game is super flawed and i hope the sequel takes more design cues from the hub world in Shadow, but this game is so insanely fun to me that its flaws are overridden for me. That being said the sequel DOES need to fix these issues lol
@StevePiPi5 ай бұрын
You know what style of game would be great for Sonic? Fancy Pants.
@thewanderingchelmet5 ай бұрын
Write that down!
@Kelps.mp45 ай бұрын
I always loved the Fancy Pants games when I was a kid, but just recently I came back to them and noticed how Sonic-like they are, and that's probably part of the reason I like them so much.
@grimm-jimm54705 ай бұрын
The thing about Frontiers' level design in the open world area feeling so disperate seemed to be one of the more contentious things to talk about when it had just come out. It's what turned me off of it, cuz most of the game world just felt so barren, and the actual platforming segments you ran around to do were just typical boost Sonic fare. It's jarring how defensive some fans were about it when I casually brought it up too, and swore that it was no different than playing a Genesis or SA1, SA2, etc. level. I still don't like Frontiers much at all, but I agree that a lot of the fun I get from it is just making your own paths w/ Sonic's movement options, and engaging with the scripted platforming as little as possible -- that, and some of the Cyberspace levels.
@MegaGeek-gr6ts5 ай бұрын
I think about what open zone Sonic could be, the idea of having vibrant colorful environments with integrated platforming, NPCs, side quests, and secret areas only certain characters could access (Sonic 3&K) is something I want to see in an open zone Sonic game. They could still have the "cyberspace" stages but instead of it being cyberspace it's actually just action stages accessable through warp rings. The stages themselves would be based on the open zone (every open zone would have a distinct theme but there would be sub-areas, POIs to make the areas feel more alive and varied) there could also be in-game shops were you can buy costumes, decorations, and food. Have items scattered throughout the open zone, like the usual ring and shield power-ups. Depending on the shield that's equiped Sonic and co would get a secondary effect to their attacks (like fire shield would burn the enemy and give them status effects). Eggman bases could be around the open zone, they would act as a sorta rogue-like area where you mow down enemies and when you die you get kicked out of the base and have to try again. By the end of it you could get a special costume or collectable.
@ak47dragunov5 ай бұрын
I would argue, and this may be controversial, that this game may be on levels of jank that rival Sonic 06. The designers' decision making in so many areas is so baffling and quite-frankly insane that if it were any other franchise, the product would be so unacceptable that it may have been emergency-shelved ala FF14. It is absolutely more playable out of the box than 06 and is definitely fun, but it is a very ugly duckling. I could list all the unacceptable, ridiculous calls the designers made but that'd make this text wall even longer. The nighttime slot machine for purple rings is a perfect example but there are many, many more. That being said, I still had plenty of fun and still replay it from time to time. It's a good first step as a glorified tech demo.
@rando66775 ай бұрын
Yeah I wouldn’t agree with this if it wasn’t for that 100% map reward in the Final Horizon That shit teaching how to do the boss when it is completely just not clear what to do is absolutely dog game design I mean the whole game is dog game design
@Terminal_Apotos5 ай бұрын
IMO 06 is a game with Good Systems that weren’t Polished while Frontiers is a Game with Bad Systems… that also weren’t Polished.
@Autokyasuto5 ай бұрын
When it came to witnessing the pre-release shitshow in the fanbase, i felt like I was living in a 1984 totalitarian/Blade Runner Night City type of environment. All the blind consumption, the gatekeepers, the peer pressure, and the willful….no….blissful aggression and arrogance. I just feel like I’m the outcast (as it is what my KZbin name implies) in the fandom, even though I was watching it from a distance. That’s why I feel so grateful for others like you, JebTube, J Reviews, and many others. (I’m not trying to sound selfish here, but that’s just how I personally feel.) It made feel less…lonely.
@gamelordabd5 ай бұрын
I feel you, man. X/Twitter is truly a hellscape.
@joeser66665 ай бұрын
I have a theory that sonic fans do not exist in real life and are actually bots run by some corporate troll
@roiitzkovich45455 ай бұрын
I feel a bit confused about 2 aspects you criticed with the game. 1. Big's OP shop - Yes, I agree that it allows you to skip a lot of content. Possibly all of it if you rack up those purple tokens. But do you REALLY wanna do that? As you said, Frontiers is a toy you mess with and enjoy what you can out of it. Why will you use Big to skip the stuff you DO enjoy? If you don't enjoy the combat, but DO enjoy the open zone exploration and cyberspace stages, use Big to buy portal gears and avoid combat entirely (except the titans I guess). You don't enjoy the mini-games that reveal more of the map? Don't do them! Yeah, you'll have an exploration disadvantage without the map, but the game doesn't force them upon you. You could argue: "It shouldn't be up to the player to balance the game for the devs. If fishing with Big is the most efficient way to complete the game, I'll do it. Not because it's the most fun thing to do, but because the game gives me the feeling that it's the right thing to do". To which I say, not quite. If you disable the slot machine (which is an option in the menu and therefore it isn't "you fixing the game for the devs"), you're not gonna have a lot of purple tokens. You won't be able to skip all the content in the game. Big will only be useful to skip SOME content. Use it to skip the content you don't enjoy. Besides, it's clear that this is what the devs had in mind. The game was promoted to offer a "flexible progression system". The game wants to offer the players multiple means of getting the mandatory collectables. If you don't enjoy a certain activity, chances are there's a workaround. The game wants to appeal to a lot of players and their personal tastes. By offering a secondary option to get stuff, you allow players to focus on the content they DO enjoy. You might also argue that: "If I have to skip content I don't enjoy, I practically admit the game isn't well designed". While that's perhaps true, when it boils down to the moment-to-moment gameplay, you don't really pay attention to that. You only pay attention to what you play (not what you don't play). When you play a game with content you mostly enjoy, you don't pay attention to the unenjoyable content you skip. You just pretent the game gives you what you DO want. And really, isn't that what matters most? If we go by your logic, I'll have to criticize Mario Odyssey for spamming filler moons with boring activities behind them and trying to say they are equal in value to the more enjoyable challenge rooms with actual platforming. I mean: "It's more efficient to do the boring and simple moons to progress so I GuEsSsSsSsS I have to do these"... I could criticize BOTW and TOTK for spamming hundreds of repetitive korok seeds and plenty of fetch-questy side-quests. Yes, they are optional, but, according to your logic, "If I have to avoid them to make the game more fun, I practically admit the game is flawed". I'm not the same. I'll get as much enjoyment out of the game as I can, even if I have to pick what I do and what I avoid. I'll play Mario Odyssey and only do the missions I consider fun (but even then I think the Galaxy games and 3D World have more fun platforming). I'll play BOTW/TOTK and only do the content I like (and only the amount of content I like). And yes, I'll play Frontiers and only play the content I do like, while skipping the stuff I don't like, which personally is only Shark because, subjectively, I like the combat for what it DOES offer. 2. You said the new characters in Final Horizon are boring because they trivialize a lot of platforming with their wide-ranged movement tricks. But truth is, you have to unlock some skills to do that, and that requires you to do SOME platforming challenges normally. The game gives you plenty of options around the map, but you don't have to do all of them. The reason I'm mentioning this is because, the couple of MANDATORY platforming courses you have to do with these characters require you to use abilities you unlock via the skill tree. That means you don't have to unlock the OP moves. You can simply unlock the abilities that are necessary for progression and then go for the story related stuff. If you DO decide to go that extra mile and explore further, do more platforming courses than necessary, you'll unlock some OP moves that make getting other stuff easier. Really, because these OP moves are optional, and often require more skill points than the mandatory moves, I don't see the issue here. They don't ruin the main content of Final Horizon. Not to mention that, with Tails in particular, the devs knew damn well how OP his Cyclone is. Because of that, some of his platforming challenges were designed in a way that the Cyclone can't help you.
@kevamev5 ай бұрын
With Big’s OP Shop, I’m more critical of the fact that I’m not engaging with the core gameplay to “workaround” the parts I don’t like. You mention Odyssey as an example that does the same thing, yet at least in Odyssey, you’re always engaging with the core game even with the filler moons to control progression however you please. Even the Shop moons, while pretty boring inclusions, incentivize you to still COLLECT coins to obtain them. Odyssey naturally implements options for how someone might want to play (go for the unique challenges, passively collect obvious moons or coins while exploring, doing the story for each kingdom, etc.) whereas Frontiers opts to effectively bypass its own content for a different gameplay mode entirely accessible nearly whenever. Fishing essentially feels like a glorified cheat code menu to hack in all of the necessary items to move on with the game like one would with say the medals in Unleashed.
@roiitzkovich45455 ай бұрын
@@kevamev But here's the thing. If Unleashed didn't have the sum/moon medal requirements (or at least made them less demanding), it would've made the game more fun. If I could've fished with Big in Unleashed to get the medals more easily, I would've done so. Frontiers is a "make your own fun" kinda game. You don't have to interact with what you don't want to and just focus on what you DO like. Essentially, if you don't like the combat, you can just pretend it almost doesn't exist. But that doesn't mean you don't interact with the game's content since you're still gonna do other activities that matter to progression. Personally, I don't do fishing with Big at all because I enjoy all the activities and don't wanna skip them.
@igirjei37175 ай бұрын
This might be a bit of a ramble since it's late over here, so bare with me lmao While I'm not gonna argue that any of what you're saying is wrong, I am going to say that I just think "PLEASE don't break our game" + "if you don't like the game, you don't have to play it" are two very flawed design ideologies. Have you ever heard of "The fun zone", a term coined by the creator of doom eternal? If not, this paragraph will explain what it is: the fun zone is the way to play the game that the devs would expect to be the most fun and engaging, and therefore, *not* playing that way will directly punish you (and possibly halt progression) until you get into the fun zone In simple terms, the game wants you to actually play it in a certain way, like most videogames. It just also uses it's difficulty and punishment systems to *force* you to keep playing that way. Sakurai made many videos on game essence, which he describes as risk:reward (high risk + high reward makes for more engagement, low risk + low reward makes a game more accessible) So with that in mind, I would say that frontiers is about as far from the fun zone philosophy as you can get. Certain 3D marios are described as sandboxes but such a term honestly applies more to sonic frontiers than any Mario game. The game wants you to screw around and do whatever you want. If you just want to get to the end, then the game really doesn't ask much of you to go so. If you dislike playing the game, you can play a boring minigame that allows you to turn your brain off and split your focus (essentially *disengage* with the videogame) while your dad comes in and asks you if you're winning and you tell him "Technically" because you're fishing instead of playing the sonic gameplay that you bought the sonic game for If you do feel intrinsically motivated to play the videogame, and you find it enjoyable, then the game is awesome sauce! If you don't much care for it then the game starts to fall apart, and this is the problem with having so many different gameplay styles in the same game that are all required to unlock more of each part Let's talk SA2. We've all heard the tale, most people love the speed gameplay, and don't really care for or actively dislike the mech stages or treasure hunting. Even those who do like the latter two playstyles *usually* prefer the speed gameplay. So people near unanimously agree (shocking, given that it's sonic related) that the speed gameplay is the best part of the game. Not to mention that it's the part of the game that's closest to what you expect out of a sonic game. So why are there mech stages and treasure hunting if they play almost completely differently from the speed stages? Most people think 1/3rd of the game is awesome and the other 2/3rds are worse, but you only get so many speed stages before you have to play through the mech and treasure hunting to unlock more of them, so you're forced to engage with the parts of the game that you like less in order to get to "the fun part" Theoretically, frontiers fixes this... by slapping a large purple band-aid over it. By adding *another* gameplay style and using more resources, when you could've either taken what other people enjoyed about the main gameplay style and injected more of that into the side ones, or flat out removed them entirely. Instead of solving the problem, they give the player the option of solving it. By spending resources on providing that solution instead of spending it on making the main game itself better. Are you picking up what I'm putting down here? Sure, not everyone has the same tastes or opinions, and some like a little variety, that's not exactly a bad thing, but games don't need to be 3 or 4 games jam packed into one. Sure, you might be tripling or quadrupling the number of people that may enjoy an aspect of your game, but then everyone gets a few slices of what they actually want instead of getting what they want. I'm not even against there being stuff like mech stages or fishing or whatever, but when the main gameplay isn't that, I would at least appreciate them being optional and in the case of fishing, it is, except it's used to avoid playing the game, which is baffling design There's also the classic "players will optimize the fun out of the game", which, to a degree, is where "the fun zone" design philosophy comes from, to encourage them to optimize the game *and* make the most optimal way to play also be the most fun (in their opinion). The fun zone doesn't even have to be super strict, it can be more lenient and provide options for more playstyles than just 1 or 2, but having 3 games in 1, where the portion of a game that an unsuspecting player might actually want is dangling on a stick beyond the 2/3rds of the game they might not care for is problematic. Maybe it helps for mass appeal, but when looking at it from a design perspective, it really makes you go "why?", because in most cases, less focused games tend to be less fleshed out
@Reset21506765 ай бұрын
bigs shop is the definition of a bandaid fix. if the entire game was good then we wouldn't need a bigs shop
@roiitzkovich45452 ай бұрын
@@igirjei3717 Simple rebuttal: who are you to decide how players should have fun with the game? What if I told you I like all the activities Frontiers offers? What if I told you I don't wanna skip anything and therefore don't rely on Big? Someone else might not enjoy certain activities that I do, but having a small workaround that skips those essentially removes everything they don't like and creates a game where they can play solely what they DO enjoy. THAT'S the fun zone. You create a game and players might/might not enjoy it. However, what happens if they enjoy PARTS of the game? Would the game be better by erasing anything else? Maybe... Maybe not. Someone else might raise arguments as to why he likes what the other person doesn't and why they should be kept. How will you please both of them? I guess improving certain aspects so they'll be enjoyable for everyone is one option (and perhaps the BEST option), but offering a skip method, while a glorified bandaid, can help as well. While improving weak aspects is the preferred problem solving method, I'd rather have a bandaid fix than not having one at all.
@kilometersperminute41135 ай бұрын
Oh boy. This game. Here we go. I love this game. I've played this game 5 times so let's see how my our opinions line up. Render distance might be about the switch being the lowest common denominator, but I have no idea why they don't add the option to adjust for non-switch versions, maybe because they can't make the option to tweak render distance in the game itself due to technical difficulties (which this game has quite the number of). Yes, the open zone platforming was slapped on last minute. Back in mid 2021, someone from 4chan reported about testing Frontiers and there is no platforming, only combat. Which also lines up with the footage for the investor report in presumably late 2021, which only showcases the terrain without any platforming elements. Kishimoto also said it himself that the platforming was added in after testers wanted it. Cyber Space is also a late addition, with basically no info until people started playing it in SGF; which is very evident when they just reused old levels and gens assets for most of the stages. My guess about the automation is that, besides making it approachable to younger audiences or casuals (see infinite parry), this sort of design is also easier to playtest within the timeframe they are given, with the assets all being copy and pasted and such. But I've been thinking that the more in-depth reason might be due to the fact that you can tweak your physics. It will certainly be an issue if they want to design more involved physics-based platforming, which is actually demonstrated in later updates. Personally I would still want customizable controls to be in the next game (is better for more people), but it'll take a colossal amount of effort if they want the two to coexist, so I'm not sure how would they do it in the next game. Nothing special but just wanted to mention: the memory token sequences are actually strung together, one after another. Some of those "weird" designs are put in positions that after you exit a certain memory token challenge, you will be able to hop on to the next one. The end of each of the strings are either Elder/Hermit Kocos, guardians or puzzles. Customizable physics might also be why some of those weird platforming designs exist Maxing out the ring stat gives you power boost permanently. Though I think it's better to maybe say 400 rings give you the power boost, so if you increase your ring count you'll eventually be able to still power boost after taking a hit. Still I think they went too far on the "baby's first Sonic game" front. Cyberspace physics are most likely just built off Forces. Also the aforementioned "if you make customizable physics you'll need to test them all" issue, which being the last piece to be developed I think they just threw the towel. Fishing. The reason why this exists is because Frontiers is such a genre mash to appeal to as wide of an audience it can get (specifically they also targeted action game fans, with the action style versus high speed style before you start the game and the combat system they initially first developed), that Sonic Team just gave an optional skip function to let people choose their playstyle (also baby's first Sonic game). Yes, Frontiers is gassed up so hard. It has problems on top of problems on top of problems. But by gassing Frontiers up so hard it became the best selling 3D Sonic game, and gave Sega the confidence to give Sonic Team the proper resources it needs to develop future Sonic games (hopefully). The fandom needs to fix that mentality but I guess it's a whole 'nother topic. The Final Horizon drove a lot of people away with its sheer difficulty, and I was one of the people who got driven away. The second tower in particular ended up making me switch to easy to essentially skip the platforming (putting in checkpoints could help lessen the frustration but I suppose Kishimoto heard Twitter complaining about Frontiers being baby's first Sonic game so they went all-in), and Wyvern just kept crashing during the boss rush. It was not until recently that I 100%ed the base game (Frontiers Elite outfit) and TFH (getting all 5 hints to beat the end, and S ranks on all Cyber Space levels and gave this game a proper judgement. I use mouse and keyboard which I heard is the worst way to play the game, and when I climbed the towers I needed to tweak my physics just because the boost physics are so unpredictable and precision platforming with the physics gets frustrating especially without checkpoints. I don't write stuff if I agree with your takes, but I need to point out specifically the spin dash. Conceived because Sonic fans (or Sonic Twitter) are obsessed with momentum (or whatever you call it). At this point I really want to ask those people if they just... don't want to play the game? Especially when experiencing those physics mods that make platforming almost redundant. People clamor for momentum but they don't even understand that those tweaked physics don't mesh well with the platforming design of Frontiers, and it is precisely the issue that the spin dash highlights. Reusing Ouranos seems like the most logical choice due to it being the largest area out of beta Kronos, and is more aesthetically pleasing than Ares and Chaos. Gotta utilize that photo mode. I personally don't have an issue with the structure. They wanted to highlight each playable character as it's the main focus of the update, and after you reach Master King you can still switch between the characters freely. And I think the reason that they don't allow you to switch freely is the exact reason you mentioned. Methinks that with the OP moves the characters get it doesn't take too long to travel back to Master King. Trivia: originally they wanted to make Sonic run on the back of Wyvern before they made it a Squid sequence. The boss rush isn't really a deal breaker for me, I think conceptually it works fine. And it is technically a different experience. Spent less time on the boss rush than doing the towers legit. And yeah, I bet a lot of opinions on TFH are soured by THE END's boss fight alone. (Also THE END being in that form is kinda lame, I wish they could've elevated the playfield into space, that'll be sooo hype) I think for TFH with what they could've worked with they did an OK job, not breathtaking but I do enjoy the experience. And Frontiers is definitely a experience with less focus on replayability because people equate 1 dollar to 1 hour. Despite all of its flaws, I do believe that it's a foundation for future Sonic games to come, especially when they have more resources from Frontiers' fluked success. Next game definitely needs to be reconceptualized from the ground up, but funnily enough the reference I would take is from Sonic Utopia, because it's literally a physics playground. Scrap the linear structure and add some collectables, bada bing, bada boom. Could not be easier. Circling back to what I repeated quite a lot in this comment, Frontiers is surely baby's first Sonic game with all the broken stuff. But it could be a response to general gaming audiences treating games as glorified visual novels. So I dunno. I mean, I guess you could call Frontiers a glorified visual novel? Frontiers is definitely a game where you curate your own experience, which iirc is what Kishimoto also said himself. Also stated above, Frontiers is a genre mash that wants to capture every type of audience from platforming fans to action game fans. And yeah, the crux of this game is to find your own fun. And despite all the shit in this game, I find Frontiers to be very fun. The story though. Ha. I'll see you in the story video.
@kilometersperminute41135 ай бұрын
Just some additional thoughts. After repeated crashes with mods I decided to play vanilla for my latest run with base game + TFH 100%, and I personally don't find the pacing to be a deal breaker either. I'm sure mods do improve the pacing, but at least for me I get absorbed into the game after reaching a flow state. I also play cyberspace completely vanilla, and still managed to get the S ranks even with extreme standards (I tried extreme it was more annoying than hard). The developers did a very good job on balancing the extreme S ranks albeit the physics are really fucked up in some moments, like slopes and collision will sometimes just don't work. And speaking of physics, Chaos Island easily takes the crown for the most fucked up physics in the open zone. That even if I find utilizing physics to be fun, Chaos Island's physics are less fun than Kronos or Ares (which has its own issue of being very walled and you need to find a specific point to reach a higher elevation)
@Terminal_Apotos5 ай бұрын
just make your own review video bro 😭 you already got the script 😂
@kilometersperminute41135 ай бұрын
@@Terminal_ApotosThe thing is, I need to repeat everything pariah said in the video if I want to make a review.
@benjaminaleman40035 ай бұрын
The story video interests me a lot
@saligraphyАй бұрын
Thanks for making this, when I get the game on a steam sale I will definitely look into these mods!