Sorcerers Are Way Too OP in D&D

[@master_gunner_4316]

Wizard with the metamagic adept feat: I am 4 parallel universes ahead of you.

[@draghettis6524]

Sorcerers : Ah yes, 2 sorcery points per long rest. I never had so low since I was reduced to mere 1st-level spells, and, even then, I could generate more at the cost of some spell slots.

[@johnh9367]

Sorcerer with distant spell: only 4?

[@Sephiroth517]

@@EdgeLie Maybe just a guy with some dragon (or whatever) blood running in his veins granting you native magic powers but who still chose to study magic in a more academic way to control his powers and not let them controls him... or a mage student who somehow awakened a dormant heritage and chose to abandon dusty spellbooks to follow that raw magic... depending on which class you started with ^^

[@sandrols7]

Wizard: Drinks potion of invisibility and Feebleminds. *Can't Counterspell that which you can't see, son*

[@sykune]

@@sandrols7 He appears as he starts to cast

[@theaspie3121]

Bonus if you use meta magic to give yourself more spell slots than the wizard so you can counter spell everything the wizard does, plus cast some spells of your own

[@dragoknight589]

*Font of magic, not metamagic. Also, that’s just evil.

[@theaspie3121]

@@dragoknight589 Yeah, that’s what it’s called. I just think of all Sorcery Point abilities as Metamagic, but Metamagic is a specific thing, not all of it

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

is there any DM out there that allows players to do that? I know it works RAW but its so very obvious that RAI a 1st level warlock and 2nd level sorcerer should not be able to produce an infinite amount of spell slots with the only limit being time. I just assumed it was an oversight on the developers part and something that had been fixed in an errata at some point. its such an egregious "spirit of the game" break that I just assumed litterlally every table has banned it.

[@theaspie3121]

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 I wouldn’t allow the Warlock-Sorcerer infinite spell slots thing. What I was suggesting is using the Sorcerer’s first and second level spell slots, as well as their already existing sorcerery points, and converting them into third level spell slots. Of course, the wizard would probably have a few extra spell slots since Font of Magic isn’t a perfect exchange, but at level 20, the sorcerer could have no first or second level spell slots (since Counterspell is third level) and 9 third level spell slots if they use all sorcery points on third level spell slots. Like this, the wizard only has one more spell slot than the sorcerer, meaning they can only cast one spell without fear of counterspell, all others can be coubterspelled

[@cristalmyth09]

Kakashi

[@omilpseudo5883]

Sorcerer: i don’t have subtle spell ! Aberrant mind sorcerer without subtle spell: I don’t have that weakness

[@utes5532]

Subtle spell is honestly underrated. So many social/noncombat situations can be solved by a well-placed subtle spell.

[@goncalocarneiro3043]

Underrated implies nobody knows it's good. That's just not true.

[@dynamicworlds1]

@@goncalocarneiro3043 underrated means people don't realize how good it is, which is true.

[@abj6920]

I would also say that more often that not, using magic in social situations depends on an IRL persuassion roll with your dungeon master. There has never been a sorcerer in any group I've run, but I've sure as hell said "roll a stealth check" to many casters trying to sneak in a spell. Is that allowed in the rules? No. Am I giving the characters abilities they should not have? Yes. Am I gonna derail today's session by forty minutes on the consequences of using "shape water" to make wine magically spill on the noble of a theocratic nation? No.

[@DaWishard]

@@dynamicworlds1 By that definition, he's still right. Most people believe and know that subtle spell is one of the best meta magic options 🤦‍♂️

[@ChaswellQuint]

It's very niche and circumstantial. I disagree. Counterspell isn't even that good. It's okay, but it's also very circumstantial. Most of the time your 3rd level spell is just as good as stopping their spell. Obviously, it gets better if you take out a higher level spell, but not everything uses spells, so for many fights both counterspell and subtle spell are just blank.

[@FrostyTheSnowPickle]

You still have to use material components. However, if it doesn’t have material components, you’re fine. Another fun spell to use with Subtle Spell, though: Power Word Kill. You can just make somebody die without doing anything.

[@thebuffman5597]

Subtle spell enlarge on someone's hmm. And everyone in room starts watching. Must be the funniest idea for a distraction.

[@Olav_Hansen]

I was thinking of specifically doing that one. They just drop dead I guess.

[@dynamicworlds1]

At high levels: subtle-spell upcast mass suggestion. Extremely long duration (6th:1day, 7th:10days, 8th:10days, 9th:1yr+1day), non-concentration, many targets, no evidence you did anything, no chance of counterspell, can add conditional triggers. Also of note: dominate spells (dominate person uses telepathic orders btw), dimension door, banishment, telekinesis, detect thoughts, illusion spells Further, spells that take a long time to cast but may be useful in conversation while others are talking as long as you could do so unnoticed including augury, clairvoyance, creation, forbiddance, legend lore, geas, symbol And those aren't complete lists.

[@athatcher9367]

It still feels dumb that sorcerers need material components… like my dad is satan, I gotta go smear some bat shit and sulphur together to do magic like normal plebs do.

[@FrostyTheSnowPickle]

@@athatcher9367 Yeah, but what can ya do? I suppose you can just rule it as needing something to channel your magic through.

[@theaeon]

Now I regret not taking that meta magic option. Our fights often devolve into "I counterspell the counterspell" "it fails" "wizard you still have your reaction" "I failed too, but what about warlock?" "Oh, he's out of spellslots"

[@DaWishard]

With the advent of Tasha's, instead of waiting for certain high levels to add one more option, you can also take a feat called "Metamagic Adept" to get two limited additional sorcery points and two more metamagic options, which you can interchange both options upon next ASI/feat level up. Perfect for reserving your other points and to feel like a more flexible and adaptable caster.

[@glowindark64]

Damn elden ring sound so hard omg

[@polarp15]

I'm convinced anyone who thinks sorcerers are just worse wizards doesn't know how to play a sorcerer well

[@Charles-dg2gk]

True of all classes to be fair

[@Iceyia]

With the features each class gets, sorcerer is obviously designed to be more powerful at the cost of versatility. I think you've hit the nail on the head tbh

[@junconglin]

Instead of just making one of your teammates a blender you can make 2

[@thestylemage2092]

It is basically, more versatility/ressources (arcane recovery+18/20) versus more power and multiclass options.

[@davidstratton696]

I just prefer versatility over focus (that’s literally the difference). And some of what the sorcerer can do is what some wizard subclasses can do. Not all but like evocation wizards get an ability like careful spell for example. Sorcerer is the only class I have never played as cause they just never interested me. I will say I have always thought they were just worse then wizards but like I said I prefer versatility. Also with the Metamagic feat from Tasha’s any character can get sorcerer points. Albeit it’s only 2 points and only 2 options but a few of them only use up 1 point like subtle spell for example so wizards can do that too just not as much and it takes a feat. Felt this needed to be talked about tho.

[@cecilrhodes2153]

Wizard: *dies of 1d4 insult damage*

[@adriel8498]

I know it's a meme, but Sorcerers have the same Hit points than wizards

[@archerman1100]

Subtle Spell: the arcane equivalent to Sneak Attack.

[@fadeleaf845]

Add the insane Clockwork Soul subclass giving you an incredible expansion to your spell list, along with some decent defensive features and you got something that is even with a Wizard in power.

[@ziyair2998]

if only i liked the flavor of the subclass. a super order-focused character tied to mechanus just sounds boring to me lol

[@KroVey]

Sorcerer is my favourite class because I can really relate to them. I work as an artist and I'm self-taught. Similarly, sorcerers are self-taught spellcasters who hone their innate talents through practice and action, instead of lifelong academic studies.

[@TerrariaGolem]

Bard

[@Melanrick]

Now that's a take I didn't had before. Really useful. Thanks man!

[@TheMrBonzz]

The only reason why Subtle Spells aren't a popular combo with Counter spells is because it would piss off both the Party and DM if abused too much, having both sides in constant "Counter spells war" ain't fun at all.

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

I'm glad I'm not in a group that would complain about basic game mechanics and spells.

[@yukkahiro]

Bruh, counter spell war is the only (ignore shield vs magic missile) way for two casters to fight each other with multiple spells doing hungreds of damage to oneshot a wizard

[@abj6920]

But isn't the point of this video that subtle spell would make you immediately win a fight like that? They can't see or hear your spell so it's just a "The evil wizard casts--" "Nope, subtle counterspell" "Well he counterspe--" "Counterspells my what? I didn't do anything as far as he's concerned. He just thinks he's bad at magic"

[@ChaswellQuint]

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 Agree, this isn't a big deal. Not everything is casting spells, and if your plan is just counterspell and the Bad Guy is just going to keep casting spells, then your DM makes trash encounters. Monsters, especially, spellcasters are SMART. As a DM I treat them as if I was running them as a PC... They know counterspells exist... you might get them once, but then what? They have no cronies, no abilities, or other advantages? Everything is easily defeated in a vacuum.

[@glaxez4498]

Me who never played d & d: I like your funny words magic man

[@bamaxdaws6459]

even I have no idea, even having DM'd and played multiple times

[@wizardcop1387]

Don’t forget that you can also still cast spells within silence or if you couldn’t speak if your use subtle spell

[@kapitan19969838]

Oh damn! I just thought of an idea for a sorceror/witch hunter specializing in fighting mages! Thanks mate ❤

[@TK-yh5zz]

At my table, sorcerers gain access to every spell from all classes because they gain magic from inside themselves. I think this is a good reason to allow them to learn any spell.

[@ALEXANDER6888]

Well, this is busted (coming from a Sorcerer main). But it's a cool thing.

[@michaelistoma8356]

I think the same. I make a camaign where sorcerers are the origin of magic and others who just found out how to use it after them and based on them are wizards. I mixed them up because i thought that if sorcerers have that power from inside than they should know more soells but then i read it is vice versa. It seems illogical to me. If wizards learn spells than THEY must know limited amount of spells.

[@Kugisakimo]

Well they do cast via arcane so they should be able to perform any spell a wizard can do,however, they cannot use divine magic unless they are divine soul so divine magic spell lists should lore wise be out of picture.

[@captainkiwi77]

Well this really works based on how your dm runs spellcasting and counterspell anyways, a great many DMs don’t announce what they are casting, they just describe what the enemy does and force you to guess if a counterspell is applicable. Also as a sorcerer you still have a worse spell list, worse damage output. So yes in a game where the dm chooses to run counterspell by announcing casts, and provided the dm is actually running casters consistently in game, then this might be viable, not overpowered, just viable

[@captainkiwi77]

Also you still have to succeed in countering which is also not a given. Realistically how many combats are you in that actually have an enemy caster, maybe once every few sessions if you’re lucky

[@Iceyia]

How exactly do you have worse damage output? Yes sorcerers have a worse spell list, but with twinned spell, quickened spell, and empowered spell how exactly do you have worse damage output? Combined with the fact that Sorcerers still get the spells that most wizards rely on for damage like fireball, lightning bolt, and scorching ray at lower levels, and cone of cold, storm sphere, and probably at least a dozen other spells, theres absolutely nothing wizard has over sorcerer in terms of damage output.

[@nebei3740]

@@captainkiwi77 sorcerers have a big niche they are social, good blasters and devastating nukes and have more spell slots than anyone else being op in caster fights is just a nice side effect + they are actually really fun to play

[@darkestlight660]

Your ignoring all the other applications of spells? Like using quickened?

[@the_nerd_showtv5562]

Variant human with metamagic adept: *laugh in evil*

[@grizzlyowlbear3538]

You can use Counterspell with Subtle Spell and deceive someone into thinking you're inmune to magic!

[@thephoenixfromoz]

Wizard: dies 1d4 intimidated damage

[@notesmaker204]

Another thing: flexible spellcasting. If monks had some something like that, they would be the best martials.

[@MST545]

Subtle Metamagic was referenced in FFXI with Black Mage's Subtle Sorcery. A job ability that not only makes your magic harder to evade with increased Magic Accuracy but also drastically lowers the emnity gain when hitting enemies with said magic. Good for those fights where you want nobody other than the tank to get hit while nuking it down

[@theubiquitouspotato]

You're all sleeping on quickened fireball twinned firebolt, Sorcerer go boom.

[@gigabyteguru2452]

Not to mention using shocking grasp with distant spell then using quicken spell for your actual attack that turn. That way they have to choose between counter spelling a cantrip, or loosing their reaction, preventing them from counterspelling at all.

[@archerman1100]

Vortex Warp & Subtle Spell for a quick guard bypass. Also good for moving martials around fast.

[@throwaway_nerd]

As someone who plays primarily sorcerers with a bit of multiclass thrown in: This. This so much. I like to do a fun combo of Empowered and Quickened because being able to perform 2 magic attacks in one turn and reroll some damage if it goes bad? It is aaaaaamazing. Plus sorcerer subclasses have fun subclass flavors for the most part (rip storm sorcerers). It’s good to see someone giving them some credit, I feel like they get a bad rep when they’re really cool, and they especially can be powerhouses with a multiclass like Paladin or Warlock.

[@Redacted_Ruler]

As a Wizard main, best way to deal with sorcerers is spam high level spells first. You’ll overwhelm when with your spellslots and they will start having to roll in order to counterspell you and you can silvery barbs.

[@ALEXANDER6888]

This makes no sense. Sorcerers can upcast Counterspell to the same level as your spell and negate them without any roll, while using low level spells to deal with the wizard - and sorcerers can do that very well.

[@Redacted_Ruler]

@@ALEXANDER6888 I didnt explain myself very well. I meant since you get magic jar so much earlier, you can get those extra spell slots from tiamat.

[@Kugisakimo]

@@Redacted_Ruler magic jar can be counter-spelled not to mention it is a charisma saving throw, and you cannot use the class features of the person who’s body you are in.

[@Redacted_Ruler]

@@Kugisakimo I wrote this comment when I had much less experience but the points you brought up aren’t the main issues. 1. in regards to counter spells, you’ll want to set up dozens of glyphs in the first place to ensure a fail, but you could also just counterspell yourself to get it to work. 2. Tiamat doesn’t have class ability’s. She has innate magic which is part of her stat block, and therefor you can use it. The issue I forgot about when I wrote this comment, is that you need true polymorph in order to get it to work, when I thought all you would need is regular polymorph. However, you could do this combo with bahamut at level 11, since he has a humanoid form you can magic jar, then use his ability to turn back into a dragon and you would still have the innate casting.

[@Kugisakimo]

@@Redacted_Ruler I understand your points a lot better now but there are still a few problems. Your first point requires prep time which is not fair as giving prep time to one of the classes and not the other is inherently unfair. Two the spell Magic jar gives the caster control over the body not the user's innate magic. No where in the spell's description does it allow for the user to control innate magic of the owner of the body.

[@Dead__Space]

Twinned Haste made short work of Strahd. So much that our DM had to seriously buff hum for our final encounter.

[@aronsvanlaugsson5338]

I feel the counterspelling should still be possible depending on the spell even if you cant see/hear them prep the spell. Since counterspell isnt actually snuffing the flames of a fireball midair, but actually interrupting the preping process you can increase the counterspell dc on already cast spells to make it still possible. Subtle spell is great in combat, but excellent for social/non-combat situations

[@thememegang5395]

Official ruling from Jeremy Crawford and WOTC is that subtle spell without material components is meant to not be counterspell able

[@alexpratt8533]

Hear me out: subtle spell command. By force of will you compel someone to obey your command by simply staring at them. Plus, it’s hilarious for social situations.

[@zavianandjessicaparr1868]

Looks like I'm going to cast the wish spell and wish that every sorcerer I meet are unable to do that shit to me

[@Gerwulf569]

Part of the idea for my shadow sorceror, even if it's probably not optimal.

[@anthonyatanasoff3703]

Wizard: takes metamagic adept Wizard: "metamagic this you fucking casual"

[@l3k064]

My wizard with metamagic adept and warcaster drinking his tea

[@cupcakesimulation]

One of my favorite characters I've played, though only in small capacities thus far, is my cheerful, naive, wild magic sorcerer.

[@Aiden-wx9xr]

BBG: counterspelling your ally spell You: cast counterspell You and the BBG: 🗿

[@wrathfulcoma4357]

I just got a amazing idea for a sorcerer now, he is a bounty hunter that hunts down bad wizards for kingdoms, I think it would pretty cool

[@The_Gallowglass]

You're a Jedi now, Harry.

[@SpargelDestroyer]

It's also very effective when bandits think you are tied up nicely and don't need much attention

[@patrickedgley7103]

I'm not sure if it's fully RAW but distant spell counterspell is also pretty awesome

[@jonathandrawdy9818]

i remember one game my sorcerer was tied up by a bunch of bandits (i missed the previous session and that’s how i caught up to the group) and i told the leader i knew where the treasure they were looking for, he walked up to me and said well where is it i then subtle spell and careful spell fireballed myself killing three of his men and causing him to retreat.

[@scytherowan9293]

I have never even thought about that, holy shit

[@theoneandonly6112]

You can also put up a silence spell and then subtle spell to cast within the field of silence.

[@TheCubetree]

Abberant Mind Sorc

[@vergil4418]

This is like playing toadally awesome against mystic mine

[@octoinkorporated8283]

But little did those sorcerers know I’m such a smart wizard I picked up the metemagic feat

[@peterrasmussen4428]

Ways to get around counterspell: - subtle spell - break line of sight, stand behind cover or in heavy obscurement, they need to see you cast the spell, but depending on the spell and what you target, you might not need to see them. Forced movement can also push them behind terrain so they cannot see you, coordinate with your allies. - Stand more than 60 feet. - Use invisibility before a big fight, now they cannot see your first spell in the fight. - spend their reactions. If the figther attacks them, and they use a shield spell, they cannot counterspell. Same if they make an opportunity attack. (this one usually requires teamwork). - Surprise them, you cannot take reactions while surprised. -Coordinate with your fellow spellcasters, to overwhelm the enemy reactions. You want to cast your big spells in the same round, so the enemy cannot counterspell them all. Take note if the enemy counterspeller is between you and your allies in initiative, if you cast a big spell, get counterspelled, and then it is the enemy turn comes right after, then he regains his reaction, you didn't really do anything. However, if your ally comes before the enemy, you just cleared the way for their spell. - Use non-spell actions. Clerics can channel divinity, and some wizard subclasses get actions that are not spells. Your millage will vary based on subclass.

[@ScreechingHermit]

Playing a sorcerer tiefling in my campaign and i don’t know what I’m doing as this is my first time lol

[@lupusgreywood]

This is why I took the meta magic adept feat as a wizard

[@JazzJackrabbit]

The only way to really deal with Sorcerers in a magical duel is to cast Feeblemind from more than 120 feet away

[@abj6920]

OH SHIT I never considered the usefulness of subtle spell!!! I always thought "why would anyone choose that? Every stealth mission is just a test of how much bullshit your DM is willing to overlook to avoid a TPK" but now I see, I see the use of it!

[@IstanaghVlandis]

Anyone else remember back when metamagic was usable by any spellcasting class who took the requisite metamagic feat? I do....gee those sure were the good old days....

[@lorekeeper685]

Counter point Glyph of warding

[@zichithefox4781]

Except with the Metamagic Adept feat in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. But I agree, Sorcerers are supreme.

[@soweroblackheart8890]

Subtle magic is the reason why my illusionist are always sorcerers

[@mwhendricks14]

My first character was a sorcerer. Not the best choice for a D&D noob, yes. But I definitely took subtle meta magic as my first choice. My primarily reason? If I ended up in a silence spell, I didn’t want to be screwed. Never did get hit with silence. I was, however, able to cast lightning bolt with my hands bound. That was a fun surprise.

[@Ririxpj]

This with the Deadman Switch is possibly the best thing one can do

[@Ligmabawwls]

Baldurs gate 3 be like: no one needs components for casting. Random spell, COUNTERSPELL V

[@FreshScone]

Level 20 druids get this too but just as a passive thing, you don't have to spend any limited resources like sorcery points and it works in their wild shape too, of which they get infinite ..... Although I guess no one really gets to level 20 anyway 😅

[@J75Pootle]

Lol my druid just got to level 20 and I got so hyped when I read that feature

[@mrbean3470]

Clockwork and aberrant are on the level with any wizard, imo. If they errata and give the older subclasses expanded spell lists to match, the whole class will be. Sorcerer has always been a toughy, though.

[@danielpannock7978]

Also at high levels, you can use Wish to cast Glibness so that your Counterspells literally never fail - have fun!

[@elafimilo8199]

So I did choose Subtle Spell as one of my metamagic options. But I'm playing a character who is thematically very fire-heavy. She uses Burning Hands a lot, for instance, and thus far she has done serious damage to our ranger twice, so the party is leaning on me to ask the DM to let me switch Subtle Spell, which I've actually never had occasion to use, for Careful Spell.

[@ChaswellQuint]

Um no. The party doesn't get to decide what abilities you pick. Stop putting your other players in the AOE of your spells dude... lol cones, especially small ones are hard to place and also mean that you near the enemy, where your other players are going to be. Careful spell is fine, but advantage on the save usually doesn't meant they take no damage.

[@wendigowithaninternetconne9594]

Counterspell sounds cool in theory though. From what i hear it represents a true “wizard duel” flicking fireballs to the side, meeting rays of death in the middle etc

[@Rabijeel]

Yep - and still I counterspell your Fireballz because of M. Also, if you have active Magic Vision, you can see the Spell forming and counterspell. Subtle Spell does *NOT* prevent Spells getting counterspelled. It just removes 2 of the most common and obvious Ways to percieve a Cast - which is the Requirement of Counterspelling it... ..as it seems, even though I did not find any Parrt that stated this exactly - but feel free to correct me upon this with Book and Page or the Link.

[@powerghostsenior]

and here i (necromancer wizard) was just remembering the time ( yesterday) i rescued our sorcerer from being strangled to death by a roper.by thunder stepping him and me out of its grasp.

[@slayeroffurries1115]

I made a comment about subtle casting on a thread about how to defeat wizards a while ago, good to know subtle casting is gaining more recognition

[@christosgiannopoulos828]

If I ever play a high level sorcerer I want to cast disintegrate by saying "it's so sad Steve Jobs died of ligma" and if the enemy fails the save, follow up with "ligma balls"

[@mr_avokado_man]

Except for spells with material components. A lot of people forget that you need a free hand to cast spells with those too, not only the ones with somatic ones. Probably because if a spell needs both somatic and material it is stated that you can use the same hand. Anyways, if the spell needs materials you can still counterspell cause you can see the sorcerer grasp their focus or component pouch and know whats coming. And a lot of spells need those.

[@TheMasterOfByGames]

I want to play a fire sorcerer that is also imune to fire, charge myself at enemies and use fireball on myself.

[@nathanwilson7929]

No focus, no problem! You can cast restrained. Cast knock. Pair with telepathic and you can hatch an escape plan while being detrained. Silence. Misty step. Charm or command spells.

[@tefranger]

I've been saying this for years. Even if you have a spell with material components your protected with subtle spell counterspells. Its so SO good late game.

[@genevaconventionsviolator3994]

On top of that, you have sorcerous guidance which means you can reroll your spellcasting checks to counter wizard spells. Pretty neat!

[@thetimeofpie2031]

Subtle spell, Command: defecate is priceless for embarrassing someone in public with no evidence it was you

[@ThisJustOne]

the counterspelling a counterspell thing always seemed weird, because to do the somatic components of counterspell, you'd need to stop doing the somatic components of your first spell, so it would fail anyway

[@andresi2002]

If you can argue that sheild can be cast even when the attacker cant be seen, then you can argue that the reaction time of a wizard is fast enough to intercept arrows mid flight. And if you can argue that, then you can argue that you can still counterspell a spell even when they dont see the caster cast it, just by the reaction of magical effects happening

[@Immerayon]

You're thinking of dispel magic. Counterspell is more making someone fuck up the components of the spell so it fails.

[@tigerclaw1544]

Depending on the party lvl a simple lvl 1 fighter or barbarian could do the job, what you just brought up, or another lvl 20 wizard that is their long lost brother.

[@tinycrimester]

subtle metamagic is the best. nobody knows where the fireball came from.

[@goliathonline5841]

I agree with you however in all my years of playing DND I've never encountered an enemy wizard. Except for twice when we did we simply had the wizard cast cast counter spell at 1 tier higher confusing the other wizard and then we had a character teleport behind them in the next round and kill them.

[@minimonkeymasher8888]

The hottest of hot takes coming through. Subtle Spell should just be a class feature. I don't know why SORCERERS, the guys who's whole thing is expelling magic natively within themselves, have to speak the spell out loud in order to use it. Are you saying the spell the sorcerer was all but born with won't work unless he says "Skibbidy Bibbidy" out loud? That's stupid.

[@mysmartphonechannel]

The way I imagine it is the Sorc just is like a charismatic mad scientist. The wizard goes through his notes again, carefully holds up the crystal and says "Two targets, 12 O clock and 3. Maximum velocity, color blue". The Sorc throws the crystal in the air, catches it casually, kisses it and says: 12 3. Engage linkage and boom. You know how I like it darling.

[@athatcher9367]

This is the first time Ive heard anyone call sorcerers worse wizards.

[@VisonsofFalseTruths]

Add warlock levels for maximum shenanigans. 1 is all you need, 3 is ideal, more don’t hurt except to keep you from those high level spells

[@Antyrria]

18 wizard / 2 sorc with feat Metamagic Adept xD *You learn two Metamagic options Its was my build xD Wiz (Divination+luck feat) Sorc (Divine Soul) - 2lvl because Font of Magic so i cana recycle points/slots xD and feat give me points and 2 meta options That was fun xD

[@thelastninjapanda3571]

Level 20 druids would like to know your location

[@altariamotives16]

I play a sorc/bard multiclass and absolutely abuse sorcery points, heightened mass suggestion is very fun and only partly bc I've made my DM roll 24d20

[@killgore8879]

Im trying to brew up a fighter sorc multiclass

[@TalasEclipseStudio]

I'm going to play as a White Dragonborn Sorcerer that uses ice abilities

[@ProfBrunoClemente]

Subtle is amazing. I've cast Dominate Person on a King in front of the whole court, looking him in the eye.... Just holding the components on my pocket. Caused a diplomatic disaster. Of course, I was there, with my silver tongue, to solve a problem I created myself... But nobody knows.

[@jesussanjose2664]

Sorcerer casting subtle fireball:👎 Sorcerer casting Quickened fireball, the twinned fire Bolt and having 3 spells in a round at the cost of heightned spell: 👍

[@andrewpeli9019]

Sorcerer has a superior casting stat, metamagic, con saves, and the divine soul subclass. They are easily the most powerful caster when built optimally

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

divine soul isn't "built optimally" when clockwork exists. either way chronurgy and divination wizard exist and meta magic as well as con saves can be done with feats. neither one is purely "superior" to the other.

[@DaWishard]

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 Except sorcerers just automatically get all those features by purely leveling itself up and can choose other feats or stat increases to improve. While a regular wizard that isn't Custom Tashas or Alt human, has to wait until lv 8 to get... 2 sorcery points and a rather limited feat to get con proficiency saves? In that time, a sorcerer has 8 sorcerers points, without using the feat to get up to 4 more if they so choose also adding up to 6 metamaguc options, flexible casting and all those other cool features they can do with sorcerers points that aren't limited (such as making spell slots and making rerolls when they fail -thanks tasha-) and have the abillity max out their main casting stat or improving thier constitution to still be better at making con saves.... But I agree, all casters have their own specialties. Wizard is superior in spells known, variety in spells, and utility for the most part. But Sorcerer, in the hands of the right player, can indeed compete and even shine brighter in many aspects despite common belief.

[@andrewpeli9019]

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 clockwork soul is another great sorcerer subclass. For tier 1 and early tier 2 play, where most campaigns both start and end, divine soul has bless, healing word, and the aid spell making them an amazing support. Both get fireball and counterspell at 5 making them broken in early tier 2, but the divine soul's ability to cast healing word can't be emphasized enough. Divine souls continue to be an amazing support asset for the entire campaign. Clockwork soul gets forcewall at 9, which then makes them a powerful support as well at that point. But pre-9, the divine soul is the standout.

[@Rhygenix]

I love playing Sorcerer

[@eclipsedninja1346]

Excuse me while I draw my longbow

[@mr_h831]

Oh that's fun. I might just end up with 3, it depends on if my current character bites the big one.

[@alessandro3832]

The meta here could be activate Detect Magic, maybe casted trought an Eldrich Invication

[@johnh9367]

Have you ever counterspelled a wizard's fireball from 65 ft away so they couldnt do anything about it?

[@gaster42]

On the other side of this Pathfinder has a witch archetype that makes the sorcerers just with out the blood lines.

[@ProfBrunoClemente]

Say that to my Bard with Metamagic Adept 😂 Also, Jack of All Trades giving half proficiency to my own counter spells.

[@vukkulvar9769]

Sorcerer who learn Wish = absolute best

[@flamingwolf8753]

When I first learned about dnd, I thought sorcerers were the coolest. Still do

[@cloakedcarp]

Sorcerer is my favorite class