Space Marines Don't Care

[@Dubyamd1]

He has a point, hell in the book about Cadia's fall shows this that all the Space Marine chapters all fight their own battles and engage in 'little wars' of their own instead of actually assisting in pushing back Abbadon. Not until the absolute breaking point to they get their heads out of their asses and help

[@jesushernanpizarrogonzalez7297]

Like how the Black Templars spend most of that war defending some chapel in the middle of nowhere that had no strategic value whatsoever just because they swore they would or something like that.

[@flakzuludeusex2365]

This is the Grim darkness if 40k, the decent people in the space marines all either die out during the Horus heresy and the coming declining years as well. To that end you can't find space marines that care, maybe the exception of the Salamander chapters. The saying goes in real life good people are gone, yet the bad ones stay.

[@VictorrineAurum]

​@@flakzuludeusex2365Even the Salamanders are no good, they'd rather die than to sacrifice a few mortals to save the many. They will put their bodies on the line for a few mortals that are as good as dead for no good reason other than to save mortals.

[@nguyenuchuy2102]

​​​@@VictorrineAurumSo would you rather be with the Salamanders or any other Space Marines Chapter that happen to be on Cadia at that time?

[@wolfwarrior1176]

​@@VictorrineAurumstill prefer those who care over those who dont. Hell the salamanders would probably be most willing to help the guard to ensure more of em dont die.

[@Warlord_Gruktak_Rukrak]

You know what...he had a point..also let me guess..the Dark Angel was chasing the Fallen

[@Significantharrassment]

Fallen? Oh silly you there is no Fallen!! Those are mere imposters trying to copy us, if you ever meet one of them which you couldn't because they do not exist contact us and we'll deal with em immediately ;3 There is no Fallen......

[@Demonlord242]

Ahp, you know too much. That's a trip to the forever box.

[@anthonyramirez9925]

HE KNOWS ABOUT THE FALLEN, ASMODAI MAKE HIM REPENT!

[@thegreatalucard76]

@@anthonyramirez9925There is no fallen but there are these strange fellers called the Risen. I wonder what they rose from, could you tell me Mr. Angel?

[@hell1942]

Bookmark

[@cheesyman10]

primarchs understood the importance of completing objectives and advancing the imperium as a whole. But chapter masters only help when it serves their chapter

[@Eye_Of_Odin978]

And? That's kind of Gulliman's own fault for writing the Codex. Breaking up the Legions didn't really stall marines falling to Chaos, anyways. Even Roboute admits as much after waking up, implying that Rogal had a point back when Rogal was Lord Regent.

[@cheesyman10]

@@Eye_Of_Odin978 what a weird comment

[@gamechanger8908]

​@@Eye_Of_Odin978 The thing is. That's why the Imperium has survived for 10,000 years. The Space Marines aren't as strong as a Legion to become fully corrupted. And also the logistics of the Imperium post Horus Heresy wasn't able to support 9 Loyal Legions and the publics opinion on them wasn't good either. So they had to break it up to something limited so the Imperium wouldn't collapse so easily.

[@dasji2]

@@gamechanger8908 So easily, but the constant fkery and the slow decline of it all. That shattering of cadia and the warp cutting the galaxy in half SHOULD of collapse the Imperium.

[@moreauclement9702]

​@@Eye_Of_Odin978 The codex was a good Idea. Perhaps Gman hadnt predicted they would be stupid enough to never update it for 10 fcking thousand years

[@EDDJOECORR]

General: You Space Marines are bunch of undisiplined cowboys!! Space Marine: Yes!

[@Mary-dc6js]

This is my safety

[@trevorking2820]

You know what I think? It doesn’t matter what I think.

[@EDDJOECORR]

@@trevorking2820 Ya'll know where I got it from 😁😏

[@hungryshark4133]

Black Hawk Down ​@@EDDJOECORR

[@EDDJOECORR]

@@hungryshark4133 😁

[@kingjonstarkgeryan8573]

Space Wolves actually plan their entire campaigns to minimize guard casualties and exposure to the enemy when facing Chaos.

[@hammer1349]

The scars of the Months of Shame still run deep

[@knighttemplaroftentacult7123]

Wolves remember, that they are dogs. Guard dogs. It would be better for all space marines to remember that.

[@link4585]

I love it because the Space Wolves are like the most heroic of the Loyalists.

[@datcheesecakeboi6745]

​@@link4585they aren't really, they kill there friends alot

[@link4585]

@@datcheesecakeboi6745 I didn't say they were good

[@briochepanda]

"Sorry, you'll have to speak up, I'm only wearing a towel." -A space marine being voxxed for assistance probably.

[@VerdeMorte]

"My eyes! Ze filters do nuzzing!"

[@hannuruotsalainen9884]

Yeah.. astartes usually just show up and you either get bossed about by them or they ignore you and do whatever they feel like.

[@chrishill3536]

well yes and no there been a few time chapter master did listen to IG though i can understand why most the time they do not. Best example would be praying mantis warriors they great at hit and run tact and keeping the enemy on high alert 24/7 and guessing were they getting attack.

[@Nempo13]

Depends on the chapter really.

[@justsoicanfingcomment5814]

At best they are attacking a strategic objective when it needs to be attacked.😎 At worst they are eating the people that you are there to protect.😱💀

[@jonathanwells223]

That’s where the praying comes in

[@carlstanford7607]

What holds the imperium together is not space marines but the imperial guard. Ordinary baseline humans just doing what they can

[@ravenguard0098]

I mean even Trajan Valoris the Custodian Captain-General said so himself that its the Guard that holds the line for the most part.

[@GCheckCentral]

​@@ravenguard0098 the writers forget that space marines are glorified attack dogs. The guard actually guards everything while marines get pissy when some dude from 10,000 years ago calls them a doodoo head.

[@leovillant768]

chadd soldierss

[@leandrocastello309]

​@@GCheckCentralwritters dont "forget it". Its the writters that put that opinion on the characters mouths and people like you think they came up with th idea. The Guard does most of the lifting, but the astartes go when the battle is well beyond the guard and hard even for an astartes. Fans forget that _everyone_ on the imperium is fighting well above their weight to keep the damn imperium for collapsing.

[@ClubQRoundDeux]

It warms my heart to see people appreciating the guard. Now learn to actually HATE space marines and Primarchs. They are supposed to be better but the biggest fuxk ups are on them. Hell Lord Solar Macharius did what the Primarchs did during the Crusades but faster.

[@kaneslives]

One of the biggest problems of the imperiums command structure has always been a distinct lack of cohesion.

[@LoneSilverW0lf]

Yep. Too many groups that don’t answer to anyone but themselves or E. Makes it hard to create a unified force.

[@apacalypsagon3758]

It just comes down to how big the imperium is. Hard to follow the orders of one who is 3 sectors away separated by galactic distance. Who's only means of communication through said distances is in the form of various interpretations made by a living breathing dude.

[@kaneslives]

@@LoneSilverW0lf there is… unfortunately a good reason for the lack of centralized cohesion. Horus. No one single individual is allowed supreme power over the navy the guard or even the space marines because of the Heresy. That’s why the command structure is all scattered and a mess.

[@Azorees-oj5zr]

⁠@@kaneslivesso in order to stop themselves being shot in the foot later, they shot themselves in the foot. Brilliant.

[@Goldenkitten1]

@@Azorees-oj5zr To be fair it worked. There have been plenty of uprisings and heresy since but nobody has come close to doing the damage Horus did. There may be drawbacks but it's served its purpose. The closest anyone ever came to supreme control again was Goge Vandire during the Age of Apostasy and even then it was small fry compared to the Heresy.

[@LysimedVenteel]

To be fair Dark Angels running off in the middle of a fight is a uniquely Dark Angels thing. You can’t imagine the proud sons of Rogal Dorn forsaking a battle like that. It would be dishonourable

[@Al3xandr35]

Wait till the fists hear that there is an iron warrior warsmith nearby

[@Schnittertm1]

The DA walking off is still better than the BA suddenly running at you and screaming HORUS at the top of their lungs.

[@matrixtrollmarine]

​@@Schnittertm1no.. that is usually death company and flesh tearers..and even then seth keeps his men away for that exact reason..

[@al-mungus677]

​@@Schnittertm1for real like it ain't that serious if there is guardsmen left alive no need to freak afterwards too.

[@jakerooke174]

I very much can grimaldus had be bitched out until he stayed put on helsreach and even then he didn’t stay he went off on a side quest to help the celestial lions

[@maroshmarosh2173]

He is not wrong when it comes to the DA lol

[@kazmark_gl8652]

It's just occurred to me that I've never actually heard a story where the Dark Angels were just doing normal space marine shit. every time they show up to a big battle or "help" the Imperium, they are actually just ducking around and chasing the fallen, then they leave.

[@tawesssoabbox]

@@kazmark_gl8652 I have always been of the opinion that if the Dark Angels did not have the protection of being the first legion (and all the war crime toys that comes with it) they would have been excommunicated so many times that the lost primarch would be well-known in comparison.

[@terminallove3531]

​@@kazmark_gl8652 Eye of Ezekiel. They help defend a world from Orks.

[@starhammer5247]

​@@tawesssoabboxThere are many stories where they do help, it's just that the inner circle is too obsessed with their hunt, forgetting that the average marine doesn't know about the Fallen and can be left where they are.

[@starhammer5247]

​@@kazmark_gl8652There are plenty of stories where they help.

[@ajprime2000]

the flip side to this of course is chapters who have tales of losing dozens of brothers because they trusted an idiot imperial commander. No one trusts anyone in the imperium, because every origination assumes that they are the only competent ones in the imperium due to not seeing their own flaws. It's hilarious.

[@iljagaimovic9166]

So everyone just does what they want instead of synchronization and achieve questionable results 😂

[@ajprime2000]

@@iljagaimovic9166 yep, it's one of the many ways the Imperium is a dysfunctional fractured mess.

[@gigaus0]

He's not wrong, literally outlined in some of the RPG books that Space Marines will only come when it suits them or ordered by a greater power, and that get them to join an ongoing battle can takes weeks to *months* of essentially bribing, with no promise that they'll stay to do what *you* need done. Ironic when you consider how much material says they hate being fawned over and will actively seek battle, but the story telling source material flat says 'they do whatever the hell they want and can't be counted on.'

[@aleturano1052]

The space marines are the medieval knights of the 40th millennium, and like medieval knights, they are assholes.

[@godking]

Also highly dependent on the chapter. Salamanders Ultramarines and Space Wolves are fairly reliable

[@insertedgynamehere]

How do you bribe a space marine

[@godking]

@@insertedgynamehere Chapter relics. A favor for a favor . Geneseed.

[@gigaus0]

@@insertedgynamehere Depends on who you are. For Inqis, assuming you're just an agent, Relics and favors, usually restoring honor. For Rogue Traders, guns, supplies, relics, ships, planets, their population, basically anything to support them materially. If you're a planetary something or other, effectively giving them rights to a planet or shipyard. By and large, it's whatever they need to keep going forward. The stuff that the average knight won't care about, but the Chapter Master, the servants behind them keeping the suits running, would.

[@МаксимЧернышев-д7я]

That's why we need robot girlyman to actually put some marines in line for once

[@dean2521]

Lamenters?

[@luxeternity]

​@dean2521 Lamenters need to be reinforced with primaris 100 times over

[@bloodshdalwayz3565]

@@luxeternityand give them five platoons worth of terminator armour. They deserve it

[@darrenong9064]

@@luxeternity they need their own titan legion fr

[@williansnobre]

He even puts Custodes in line when he has the chance Although he has a hard time with the Ecclesiarchy and the Sororitas because when he tries argue with them he only envigorates their religious belief.

[@twatmere9726]

Guilliman: You seem...un-appreciative of the presence of my Space Marines, why? Lord General: I shall explain, my lord. *40 mins later* Lord General: That is all my lord, but may I ask. Are you....okay? *Guilliman frothing from the mouth* Guilliman: ...nnnyyyesss... Excuse me Lord General. I need to talk to my sons. Lord General: uhhh, understood. *vines and flora starts to appear* Lion: I heard you speak poorly of my sons, The Dark Angels...I would like to know why. Lord General: Oh, ummm....I shall explain. *40 mins later* Lord General: That is all my lord. I must say, you and Guilliman truly are brothers. You have the same expression. *Lion frothing from the mouth* Lion: That we are Lord General....that we are...If you may excuse me, I need to talk to my sons. Edit: Fuck it, here's a bonus. Vulkan: My brothers! I know my return is sudden and unexpected but hear this. People are looking past the looks of my sons because of how good they are and- What is going on? *All of the Crimson Fists doing a one handed plank for throne knows how long* Guilliman: It is great to see you, Vulkan. Vulkan: It is great to see you too brother but I am still confused on why they are doing that. Are you in the middle of training? Guilliman: In a way...yes. Vulkan: Then I shall leave you to it. I will go see what the Lio- Crimson Fist: Please don't leave, Lord Guilliman just got into a good mood seeing you and we've been doing this for mont- *Guilliman places his hand on Vulkan's pauldron* Guilliman: Yes Vulkan, go visit Lion and tell him of your return. Vulkan: Ummm okay? Crimson Fist: Noohoho *Fortified weeping* *In The Rock* Vulkan: Brother, I have returned and- what is going on? *All of the Dark Angels sitting in a circle with some inquisitors too* Vulkan: What is this? Lion: Oh, you know. Story time hosted by Asriel and the Inner Circle on a book called. "Every shame of the Dark Angels". Asriel: And when Guilliman was making his way to us, we were so paranoid that he had known about the fallen. We planned to shoot his ship dow- Is- Is that Primarch Vulkan? Vulkan: Yes, but what was that about you going to shoot my brother's ship? Asriel: Please my lord, I can barely handle telling ONE primarch of our shame but TWO?! Lion: Keep going. Asriel: Noohoho *Repentive weeping*

[@Nightmare704RY]

*not even 5 minutes later, from different parts of the planet* Guiliman: MAINUS!!! Lion: AZRIEL!!!

[@CHRF-55457]

Now repeat this with the Khan and the Green black space marines who love fire so much.

[@theflyingeyeball]

My sons, I am very disappointed in you! No hugs for a week! -Vulkan

[@DeadGothicRed]

​@@CHRF-55457salamanders? Lol

[@terminallove3531]

​@@DeadGothicRed Not really lol. They prioritize civilians too much.

[@dr.stronk9857]

The thing I like about the raven guard is that they’re all about helping the people before leaving without a trace. But I imagine they’d be such a pain to communicate with as a general. You’d barely even see them lol

[@danteyoda]

Raven Guard are an excellent chapter.

[@ambion19]

Roboutty Guillemot: we need to divide the legions into chapters to prevent large scale organized actions. The chapters incapable of organising themselves for large scale actions: ... RG: no wait

[@LemonRush7777]

Yeah, they really need a Warmaster to organize everything.

[@LoneSilverW0lf]

It was a good idea at the time and in concept, he just didn’t realize how much of a shit show it would turn into. Then again nobody could’ve really predicted the next 10 millennia either.

[@MR.LMR1996]

@@LoneSilverW0lf If it wasn't for Fulgrim putting Guilliman in a 10,000 year-long death sleep or the other Loyalist Primarchs vanishing to do their own thing, chances are they could've refined the flaws of Guillimen's Codex Astartes as time went on for the Imperium.

[@thegamesresearcher]

Didn't seem to be a problem for the Sons of Dorn ;D

[@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447]

@thegameresearcher this video shows otherwise

[@Indigo8899]

"Lamenters and Salamanders": *gigachad music*

[@bombercbc9431]

Raptors: "by the throne my brothers really are a bunch of undisciplined buffed up guardsmen aren't they?"

[@insidechaos4913]

They do the same thing. For the lamenters I don't recall a book or short story where they fought with the guard and the Salamanders tend to put their own goal ahead of the greater picture and tend to lead to more deaths for a good feeling. While they are some of the nice chapters they are not really all that different from other chapters sept for the coat of paint

[@chill7056]

Don't forget the raven guard and space wolves

[@conan2096]

the lamenters are too busy being beaten into the dirt for no reason lol.

[@kelakogreenaddict1888]

@@insidechaos4913 do you have a source where salamanders do this?

[@Judge_of_Anubis05]

I remember during the end of the reunification wars that there were some legions that actually worked really closely with their human counter parts and were apparently way more effective than what we see now.

[@evansabahnur3383]

because marines back then were humans with a boost. now they are only space marines.

[@kolyashinkarev7366]

Because back then they didn't have holier than thou bullshit

[@addisonscott5876]

Yup, adding Crimson Tears to my sabbat crusade reads.

[@ragnarokivae6136]

Didn't even know that the crimson fists took part in the sabbat crusade

[@o.w.n.1327]

It's not a Sabbat Worlds crusade novel. It's a Soul Drinker novel.

[@jooot_6850]

Elden Ring reference 😲

[@Triggermangravy]

Man should be GLAD he doesn't know what the fuck the Dark Angels are after

[@Nightmare704RY]

I don't think he really cares to know, it has more important thing to deal with that the secret agenda of a space marine chapter.

[@nguyenuchuy2102]

​​@@Nightmare704RYNow that The Lion hs returned, they probably would't do that anymore, since the Fallen thing is pretty much smoothly handled by Lion himself.

[@oliviataylor3052]

The Dark Angels don't know what they are after either.

[@Triggermangravy]

@oliviataylor3052 Dark Angel stans: "1st and 2nd company do!!!" The Lion, Luthor, The Watchers, and much of the Fallen: "do they?"

[@Nerthos]

Secretive titties?

[@krokodyl3086]

“I missed the part where that’s my problem” -Captain Biggus Dickus, Ultramarines

[@shawdcummings2160]

Thats why you need to keep salamanders on speed dial

[@PopoXReturnz]

I just imagined Tu'Shan having a Powerpuff girls -style red phone that lights up and buzzes whenever someone needs them.

[@ANDELE3025]

Unless its a stalemate, quagmire, the IG are on the offensive or you in any other way need to do things like looking at the long term picture with tactical sacrifices for the sake of for example a bait to stretch the enemy line at core points for segmented hammer and anvil tactics or apply terror to non-xenos enemies. Except for the Black Dragons, which clearly 100% are Salamanders successors despite their normally working but pale skin (till the bones envelop them, which is a ironheart rather than melachroma issue), pure black eyes, normal/higher than normal walking speed, working acid gland and preference for jump packs and the use of the mentioned terror tactics (and more stealth).

[@MrBlack0950]

i think ultramarines are also fairly reliable too, given they are led by a primarch still, which generally operated with a big picture mindset, even if said big picture wasnt always the same as their brothers

[@ProjectTaker]

Pretty much any Chapter that operates more like a conventional military force is a good deal like the Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Blood Angels or the Raptors. I mean, chances are they will assume command but at least they’ll hear out what the objective is and you’ll know their tactics are sound.

[@Happyman28778]

The Three Legions that could successfully integrate with the Imperial Guard were Ultramarines, Salamanders and the Imperial Fists. There Primarchs, Legion Philosophy and home worlds all were directly involved in the administration or close organization with imperial guard/solar auxiliary troops. All other legions could in theory but frankly only these three legions had the experience and personal philosophies necessary to actually bind these two institutions together

[@GhostBear3067]

Every Guard commander wishes they could specifically request aid from the Salamanders.

[@jooot_6850]

Salamanders, the ultimate emotional support tool for any Guardsman.

[@TheUncivilizedNation]

I mean depending on the circumstances you could ask for whoever you want. It’s just not likely that who you want is available or willing. So a replacement is sent or you get no reinforcements at all

[@emhryvar]

The dark angels where probably chasing the fallen

[@cloakandriflegaming]

The fallen do not exist. Don't lie to yourself

[@penggarisstabilo6399]

ASMODAAIIII!!!

[@dancerronin]

There is a interrogator Chaplain that would find this fascinating to hear. Right this way please.

[@jeffy1862]

Of course if the lord general actually knew that he’d be little more than jam on a wall or a head rolling down some stairs.

[@rezaganjizadeh4263]

The Raven guard hiding in the corner: so that's what they think The night Lord behind him: sadly

[@proteous8100]

Also a raven guard marine: Hydra dominatus indeed

[@АлександрСимон-п6и]

You should swap them. Raven Guard is better in stealth.

[@BBYG-ig9ix]

​@@АлександрСимон-п6и No Both are extremly good in stealth The only difference btw both is than the nightlord actually want you to know than he is coming for you.

[@АлександрСимон-п6и]

@@BBYG-ig9ix you are wrong. In the book about Curze he was pretty certain that Corax and his legion are better in stealth then he and his legion. Corax and his sons are just naturally gifted with it. Corax can hide himself everywhere, and people just stop seeing him untill he want them to see.

[@thebighurt2495]

This is why the Imperial Army is kind of frightening. They were the Guard, Navy and Chapter Serfs in one combo package, in the same command structure with the Astartes Legiones and coordinated together and equipped with better gear than the Guard has now.

[@OssaLuctus]

That's why I love ogryns, they're space marines with half the brain, twice the humanity, and thrice the heart

[@snikrit]

And likely far more useful to the military complex of the Imperium at large.

[@francesco8000]

This is made even worse by the fact that the way space marine acts changes not only chapter to chapter but also from captain to captain, going from being helpful and working together (like Uriel ventris) to more indipendent but still collaborating (like Shrike) to just being assholes (hello dark angels) and if there is a chapter master they are truly impossible to control. In the series of Ragnar blackmane (3' book) the space wolves send almost the entire chapter to help retake a world (i don't remember if they send 9 or 10 companies) which sounds great until you realize that the reason was for an old oath and for the fact that there is a temple to Leman Russ with one of his weapon there. So they basically demand that the fist assault is not on a space port or another key strategic objective but instead on said temple to retake it immediately.

[@trucluu7894]

Considering it is a primarch’s weapon. It’s kinda understandable why they would go for it first… Considering the damage it could do in the wrong hand

[@kolyashinkarev7366]

​@@trucluu7894the fact it's a primarchs weapon doesn't change much, it's essentially proly just a big shiny bolter or a strong sword, nothing more

[@trucluu7894]

@@kolyashinkarev7366I looked it up. It’s the spear of russ, the weapon given to him by the emperor It’s actually a big deal

[@kolyashinkarev7366]

@@trucluu7894 it's still just a high tech pointy stick

[@Banished-rx4ol]

@@kolyashinkarev7366That can take out the biggest nastiest daemons that the guards biggest guns can’t dent which makes it quite useful

[@Avellar3000]

Marines land on a planet and run full tilt at the biggest target they think is there. "Fuck your orders! Big monster!"

[@notribadsvault]

I do wish there was a loyalist legion that specialized in fighting with regular troops. Pre-traitor Emperor’s Children were kinda like that, but it’s a niche that no other Space Marines really filled since.

[@raznaak]

There's the Mentors, as well as a few other Ultramarines offshoots to a lesser degree.

[@Azorees-oj5zr]

There are some, as the above person said, the Mentors are one such chapter, it’s actually their specialty to work with the guard, there’s also the Raptors who work closely with the guard.

[@Aperson66779]

I believe the Raptors do this a lot, but are a more unique faction for doing it.

[@jooot_6850]

The Astartes should function almost subserviently to the Guard. They shouldn't be a self-motivated, independent force. They should be the Guards' armored fist that can do what normal squishy humans can't.

[@insertedgynamehere]

Why would they be subservient to the guard? They're 8 foot tall demigods, who only comprehend war, leashing them to another faction would diminish their effectiveness.​@@jooot_6850

[@manchannel7003]

You get a sense of this in Helsreach where Helbrecht just assumes command simply because he's the highest ranking marine in the city. Eventually he realizes his job is to fight orks wherever the fight is thickest, but even then he still decides for himself where he goes next.

[@KalashVodka175]

I know it's brave for a commander to fight his own wars, but in this context its stupid to have your overral commander for the entire area also be a groundpounder wasting his time being an individual fighter instead of strategizing, re-deploying resources and thinking of macro level battle strategy. Sometimes being in the command center orgnanizing everything is simply more beneficial for the lives of the men under one's command

[@BersrkirCrusader]

From what I remember reading in my Black Templars codex (it's from an older edition so could be outdated by now in terms of lore), that Marshals actually stay on the ship and organize battle plans while a Castellan that is appointed deals with in person matters such as like if the Marshal isn't there in the first place or to just simply be a point of command for the fighting forces.

[@manchannel7003]

@BersrkirCrusader only serious campaigns get a Marshall and they typically don't lead from the front but they don't necessarily stay aboard the ship unless a significant part of the fighting is in space. Which is why helbrecht stayed aboard the eternal crusader and sent Grimaldus to lead by example.

[@Galdenberry_Lamphuck]

They are basically walking talking weapons. They left most of their humanity on the operating table.

[@theclonelieutenant5976]

He said balhaut?!?! So is this story taking place on the sabbat worlds?

[@xboxstudent]

Yes

[@emanymton7184]

This is part of the "Souldrinkers" series of books by Ben Counter.

[@Муня-ж7з]

Bahmut

[@sargeantgamerful]

Love Abbnet so much

[@shadow-monger5189]

I've wanted to write a 40k story about a highly successful imperial regiment that hates fighting alongside Astartes. Pretty much for all the same reasons stated. The Army isn't successful because it has the best tech or the most zealous soldiers, (although they are above average because they have a long history of existence and have made a covenant with nearby forge worlds) They're successful because of logistics, planning, and tactical flexibility. As well as deceiving enemies and emphasizing maximum casualties while minimalizing their own. But when Astartes enter the picture, they throw everything into a state of chaos... Ironically. So this army basically avoids any Astartes they come across with the exception of what is expected of them.

[@jooot_6850]

@DogseatDogsThe Astartes could only hope to be as strong as the Guard. They were not born as agents of the Emperor. They weren't modified with the best augmentations available. They weren't equipped with the finest arms and armor the Imperium has to offer. The Guard fight and die knowing their names will never be remembered, their heroic deeds will always be overshadowed. And yet they fight nonetheless. The Guardsmen are truly strong.

[@northvanguy621]

Unfortunately they would be rolled by the first tyranid swarm or chaos threat that consists of anything more than cultists.

[@GokageBlack]

Space Marines are that guest NPC unit that wreck everything in front of them but get called off to a separate objective right before xxx shows up

[@theduke7539]

who would have thought that taking a group of "super soldiers" and giving them all the best equipment, best armor, recruiting them based on loyalty and devotion, and then giving them a completely independent command structure who's military goals may not always align with the tactical and strategic needs of the wider military would turn out to be such a bad idea?

[@jordanwhite8718]

Everyone, everyone would’ve thought that. Not sure what movie that’s from.

[@theduke7539]

@jordanwhite8718 its not from a movie, its literally what the Nazis did with the Waffen SS, by taking their "genetically superior" soldiers, submitting them to loyalty tests, and those who passed were given the best tanks, best guns, best radios, and were given a totally independent command that did not answer to the whermacht.

[@jordanwhite8718]

@@theduke7539 Sorry when I was saying I’m not sure what movie that’s from. It was because I was quoting some thing.

[@Aethul-wd9ke]

​@@theduke7539 What absolute nonesense... Waffen SS was strategically under the command of the Wehrmacht, but was funded and supplied by the SS High Command.

[@theduke7539]

@Aethul-wd9ke except the waffen SS reported to the part, No whermacht officer lower than a general had any authority over waffen SS, but because SS units were moved around so much, only field marshalls had the ability to actually coordinate SS and Whermacht troops together

[@g-saviour6581]

People like to bring up the story where a mom who managed to keep up with the crimson fists was carried by them when she finally collapsed but there's no doubt in my mind if she failed to keep up she and her kids would be dead

[@funnyjuic3enthusiast]

But she was not able to keep up with them. The crimson fists had to slow their advance and wait for the family to catch up to them.

[@conan2096]

the soul drinkers books are fucking sick. that general was so fucked over by the crimson fists and soul drinkers fighting their own wars.

[@o.w.n.1327]

My man would rather die with his guardsmen then feel the wrath of the Inquisition and being assigned to a penal regiment/executed. Funny part is that all his guardsmen care about him so they took him to safety when he was wounded. He did got captured by the Inquisition and said they will talk about his punishment.

[@hell1942]

​@@o.w.n.1327wait why did he get punishment? For failure?

[@discountplaguedoctor88]

@@hell1942 Knowing the Inquisition, it could've been literally anything from genuine failure to that general simply insulting a specific Inquisitor's taste in wine (amasec in-universe).

[@o.w.n.1327]

@@hell1942 Yes.

[@ASURAIIXV]

First mistake trusting the dark angels to actually show up. Second mistake expecting to survive if you spot the fallen theyre chasing

[@YouWinAFREEiPOD]

I'm grateful for their Primarch showing up so that we can put an end to that miserably boring trite of a conflict that every Dark Angel story recycles.

[@Erraddo]

I love how the commissar's answer was not "but they fight good", it was "they raise spirits". Armored cheerleaders lmao

[@snikrit]

Frankly that's about all they would logistically be good for. They aren't in large enough numbers to be a real force, they don't integrate well into battle plans and likely take far more resources to maintain and operate (remember their supply worlds are exempt from tithes) than whatever not having marines would produce for the many war efforts of the Imperium.

[@Erraddo]

@@snikrit ehhh, they're invaluable spearheads in some situations. They're logistically not worth it in open warfare, but in, say, a bunker tunnel, a spaceship, a Hulk? Fighting daemons? And yeah the morale boost is massive too

[@snikrit]

@@Erraddo Do those specific situations make up for the cost. Realistically the answer would likely be a hard no, but they do sell well so 70% of the setting they remain.

[@alshabib5849]

@@snikrit in an open battle they can break a section of line which a good Guard commander can then exploit with mechanised forces to encircle the other sections of the line. Astartes also are quite good at vertical envelopment or the teleportation equivalent for Terminators, popping in, hitting a logistics depot or command bunking then popping out.

[@snikrit]

@@alshabib5849 I'm not arguing that they can't be effective when not faffing about, but the sheer logistical cost of a chapter would never cover the cost of resources lost. The lackadaisical nature of chapters makes them horribly unreliable on a large scale and those same resources would be able to provide army and equipment tithes for the imperial war machine. It isn't even like Space Marines are the only thing to fill the role of spec ops. Dorn himself evaluated a marine as worth as much as ten troops. Each marine takes faaaaaaaar more resources to create than ten guard, and likely even far more than specialized troops like Tempestus Scions. Lore even establishes Marines only engage in operations where they know they will succeed, and when they step outside of that they get wrecked like anything else. They might be cool walking tanks, but the reality of their few numbers relative to the Imperium (to say nothing of the ways they often weaken Imperial efforts with their own selfish actions) at large would just relegate them to mostly being excellent propaganda, for the morale boost it provides your own side and the fear it can elicit in some enemy forces.

[@falkyrie5228]

_"Space Marines? They're not a cohesive fighting force. They're a bunch of independent agents, each with their own frakking agenda."_ _- Lord Castellan Ursakar Creed_

[@absalomdraconis]

Spoken like a man that never worked with Custodes.

[@Bunny-r9f8t]

As a veteran i genuinely cannot wrap my head around the military structure in the 40k universe.

[@trucluu7894]

if you want a good summary of it, it's basically a mess. Any and every time the imperium military structure is even a little bit efficient, it either ended up with a civil war, someone comically evil is put in charge, or both (horus heresy)

[@deskslam4232]

Meanwhile, Salamanders: "My brother...!" **He cries out with rage, holding a fallen guardsman, before setting him down gently, then charging into certain death.**

[@thenexus8384]

"I will not let his death be in vain!"

[@husseinA.]

He's out of the line .... but he's right.

[@Mahbu]

Pump breaks. Pump breaks hard. "Most" is a stretch. There are a "thousand" (probably way more) chapters out there and we only hear about at most maybe like 30 or 50 in great detail. And in that we see a wide range from the Salamanders and the Space Wolves or Crimson Fists and Ultramarines to the Marines Malevolent or the Star Phantoms and the Flesh Tearers. It's also important to remember this quote is coming from a very biased source. Yes, marines act independently and "chase their own wars" but that's not an alien concept. Special Operations pursue objectives outside the normal scope of command in the real world. And we also have scores of examples where marines DO correspond and coordinate with local command. Captain Titus in Space Marine 1, for example, or Tor Garadon during the Hexarchy Crisis. So it all depends. Of course, who also have space marine chapters like the Minotaurs or Space Sharks who ignore everyone but a select few. Or the Dark Angels who can and DO help on occasion but are just as likely to vanish on their own crusades,

[@bubbasbigblast8563]

I wonder how much of this is a result of venerating old Legion behavior: the SMs want to play to those old strengths, but most of their warfare is defensive now, and the SMs no longer have the raw numbers to make specialization effective, so they mostly end up undermining themselves.

[@luzifershadres]

"Ehh, Sir? Why arent the space marines we got, included in the battle plan?" "I heard there was a 3m tall dude with some tryangle thingy on his armor seen on the other side of the planet."

[@bGRmn]

Honestly it’s conflicts like this that make the world building feel more “realistic”- although that’s a STRONG word to be using when taking about 40K.

[@drngzm1974]

The biggest example of this happening that I can remember is when a bunch of dark angels land on vraks, and instead of coordinating with the death corps regiments there they just mess around with some alpha legionaries and get their asses kicked, destroying a star port in the process which had no strategic importance to the vraksians whatsoever so their presence was utterly useless.

[@flaviomonteiro1414]

But hey, at least they recovered a Fallen and made him repent a couple of decades later 😂

[@drngzm1974]

@@flaviomonteiro1414 thats a win for them i guess lol.

[@elden7527]

I believe that this Lord General knows a little too much about Dark Angels...

[@moreauclement9702]

Dark Angels are a special case. Others chapter might not care about "lesser men" lives but they wont just vanish like that from the front

[@B1ackWolf]

Lament. Do you know the meaning of the word? Let me say a name to you The Mortificators. You probably don't know who they are...thats no great loss. We received word that these noble sons of guilliman, these successors to the legends of old Macragee would not be helping those 9 billion people because my brothers and I were cursed? They abandoned us, they abandoned the soldiers, the mothers and fathers, the grandparents, all of them. In the name of superstition they sentenced so many to death. We did the best we could, if you have it in you please believe me. We spend six weeks fighting. SIX WEEKS. So much is a blur so much isn't there. So much isn't even a blur. I could list the names of the 804 astartes who fell or i could tell you this each of them died for something greater than any of us. When all others turned away we stood defiant. The Mortificators dereliction of duty caused 4 billion deaths.

[@moreauclement9702]

@@B1ackWolf So they didn't vanish from the front line, they never were on that front

[@B1ackWolf]

@@moreauclement9702 ... wtf is the difference between vanishing and not showing up at all? The guy you were supposed to be helping is gonna get fucked up either way.

[@fumarc4501]

There’s a very good reason why the Emperor didn’t install space marines as overlords of sectors or even lord governors of worlds. Guilliman is now changing this for Ultramar. How long before he achieves what Horus dreamed of?

[@Zelmel]

"Throne knows" like the Emperor cares about any number of humans lower than the hundreds of billions

[@dabartos4713]

replace throne with god, that's the author's intent. From your comment it seems like you read it as something else.

[@Gridlock1475]

I've said this once and ill say it again. I will sooner trust a guardsmen then a space marine. The Salamanders are the ONLY exemption to this.

[@spencervance8484]

What about ultra marines?

[@Gridlock1475]

@@spencervance8484 Hell to the no. To the no no no. There are individuals I would trust but the chapter as a whole? NO! Salamanders are the only chapter I Know with certainty would risk their lives. Every other chapter as shown in one way or another they value their lives over everyone else's.

[@UncleAsmos2005]

@@Gridlock1475 Lamenters, Raven Guard.

[@Gridlock1475]

@@UncleAsmos2005 Lamenters only helped people to avoid major battles. The reason they fought in major battles was because they were ordered to by the high lords. As for the Raven Guard I have spent a solid 5 minutes looking and have found only individual space marine accounts not whole chapter accounts.

[@tinarex1173]

Yeah John Bob of 7782 platoon will definitely be more reliable than a space marine definitely won't just combust when even a little psychic power hit em

[@bigmonkeking9067]

The biggest mistake people have about space marines is that they "help" Guard because they are instructed too. They have their own missions and do not give a shit about the chain of command of the human military. Be glad that they have the time to help out when they can, but they are not obligated to stay in a war. Look at the Siege of Vraks.

[@MercerJame]

There are a lot of war and battle where the space marines just says "F#CK THIS IM OUT"

[@bigmonkeking9067]

@@MercerJame Definitely, again look at the Siege Of Vraks. The 2 Big Chapters helped but for their own reasons.

[@alyassuppaleridhil7892]

Yeah because... *looks at the Horus Heresy*

[@hell1942]

Nothing to be "glad" of It helps no one to be this unreliable

[@dependent-ability8631]

unreliable soldiers have no place in war no matter how "special" they think they are

[@kainepeterson6638]

This is why I enjoy Salamanders most. The Sons of Vulkan never forget where they come from. They’re fighting men, just like the people they protect. They’re just humans, near the pinnacle of humanity, but humans nonetheless. And they fuckin act like it. I want a story of where a bunch of Salamanders take on a squad of Grey Knights because they’re about to purge an entire city on an agri-world just for one daemon being in the sewers or some shit, and the Salamanders won’t stand for it.

[@BreezeOTM]

Honestly. Them, the Laminators, The Raptors, The Raven Guard and the Space Wolves are just a few of the factions that legitimately act and practice what they were designed for.

[@PierreDolas]

Astartes forget they've been made for humanity

[@guyver441]

Ah, I see this human has never been partnered to fight alongside The Marines Malevolent. Or the Flesh Tearers, Minotaurs, or Black Templars...

[@sponge9553]

I played space marine 2 and this is absolutely accurate Im way to busy smashing in xeno heads with a power hammer and a jet pack to remember I’m supposed to be helping the 8th take back an orbital gun or whatever’s going on

[@chitterlingsrtasty]

Dark Angels??? Never rely on chaos marines.

[@volofant]

That's why Primarchs are needed. When Guilliman woke up, Ultramarines were further widespread across the galaxy to defend the Imperium. When Lion woke up, the Dark Angels got their head out of their asses regarding the Fallen because they are forgiven.

[@FIGGYPWNS]

HAVE YOU EVER GONE OVER THE ROGUE INQUISITOR BRANCH ORDER OF THE HYDRA? THE INQUISITOR SNEAKED INTO THE THRONE ROOM TO SPEAK WITH THE EMPEROR?

[@DrihunGaming]

Snuck

[@FIGGYPWNS]

@@DrihunGaming snuck my nuts

[@DoctorFail]

Snerk

[@g3n4-y3i]

Crimson Tears is one of my favourite 40K books, imo the best novel in Soul Drinkers series

[@AvaniDK]

Not to mention the fact that when an imperial guard commander might get some help of a few squads or (gasp) an entire company, you should remember that they are lead by sergeants and captains respectively. So, you suddenly have a marine sergeant ignoring the orders of a General... (nevermind the fact that the sergeant might have multiple centuries of combat experience more than the general has even lived!) One of the Caiphas Cain short stories has him figuring this out as he is on the way to serve as liaison between the guard and some marines.

[@MrLukhut1]

Love the shorts for the lore, love them even more for the music

[@bobbobertbobberton1073]

Marines have their own authority, only the Inquisition can truly give them orders and that's not always the case. They will take orders from say the Guard only by choice, or if other Chapters are in the same fight. They have centuries of experience. They'd be wasted on the battle line.

[@stephenkellett7836]

Something that often gets forgotten about is Space Marines aren't really super soldiers, they're super warriors. They're made to win battles, not wars

[@Ruvaakjun]

Dark Angel who is over 4000 years older than the General: You see, I'm an old man, and I don't hear so well. So you're gonna have to say that again. *points Bolter* But this time, say it with your chest.

[@KalashVodka175]

DA murdering loyalist officers for the pettiest reasons? Damn, that's very in character. At times it feels like the DA are legit more treasonous than the World Eater. At least the WE have the excuse of being driven insane by the nail. Fuck, the Alpha Legion might legitly be more loyal to the Emperor than the DA.

[@95DarkFire]

Space Marines should be portrayed like the original Terminator: An emotionless killing machine.

[@ElJorro]

I have noticed this myself.

[@Sweetace2211]

Thats why the Salamanders are my favorite chapter. They would have taken that archipelago without a single guard casualty

[@Nostroman_Praetor]

Wasn't The Crimson Fist Fortress Monestary self-nuked during this battle lol? I remember Pedro being nowhere near a vox to message back.

[@flaviomonteiro1414]

It happened but I think it was after this campaign (different worlds).

[@stevethedude.4586]

Bro really wanna order a space Marine

[@aureliusofphoenix4834]

The spacemarines are “above it all” though, they’ve got their own reasons and their own needs, if his petty argument is that he can’t control them that’s fine the guard are meant to spend their lives in simple conflict

[@SyxxPunk]

It really must have been strange for 2nd Lt. Mira to see a Space Marine Captain walk up to her and ask HER for advice and plans. Also, you have to know a large chunks of the Imperial Guard command definitely says "thank the Emperor, it's the Salamanders."

[@AmazingAutist]

"Above it all" is a weird way of saying "up their own asses."

[@oscarguzman7615]

And he has a point, once traitor astartes were spotted that is exactly what the Fists did, chase them around forgetting the battle plan. Lord General Xarius was based af, he's one of the best parts of the book.

[@thomasgrinde2971]

I mean it depends on the chapter.

[@dareolumide8287]

I don't get why space marines call regular humans 'mortals'. They're all mortal

[@henrychurch6062]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. The Imperial Army and Imperial Navy were enough. Big E should never have made Primarchs and Space Marines. If not, there wouldn't have been a Horus Heresy, and he would have just won the galaxy over with brave men and the humble lasgun.

[@carlstanford7607]

He wanted to do it fast and paid the price

[@alyassuppaleridhil7892]

I don't think there was an "Imperial Army and Navy" when the Space marines were created. The mortal military branches only came along when the Imperium secured the Solar system.

[@MercerJame]

To be fair to BIG E when the great crusade begin the Imperium dont have near infinite resource and near infinite manpower like they are now.

[@ahh_yes_mr_bax]

He was overzealous and too impatient. He wanted super soldiers to help him crusade faster than what a regular army could do. The imperial army and navy was more than enough to win the galaxy for the emperor, but he wanted it done faster and more brutally. The emperor was his own undoing.

[@himenolover69uwu]

Try beating the thousand of xeno and human empires with dark age of tecnology level tech with just guardsmen before the tyranids arrive in our galaxy or chaos starts to corrupt the soldiers

[@pyerack]

Bro's first mistake was assuming the Dark Angels would make themselves useful in the slightest. The dudes are so self centered in their own goals and "Muh Fallen" they might as well be a rogue chapter.

[@daddypudding9074]

Tbf, Space Marines have to deal with a VERY specific level of threat. They can’t afford to be like regular soldiers, especially with how much sacrifice goes into MAKING them.

[@brucewayne5281]

This is a perfect perspective

[@E100Omega123]

If you dig in, hold your ground, and trust in the Emperor, you might live long enough to see the space marines show up and take all the glory

[@DoctorFail]

Aye, cuz the guardsmen are too pathetic to do it themselves and without help from better factions.

[@asteroidrules]

The Unforgiven (Dark Angels and their successors) in particular have a habit of ignoring everyone else and doing their own thing due to the whole Fallen business.

[@randomlyentertaining8287]

The Siege of Vraks shows this pretty well too.

[@E.F5980]

Lord General: Salamanders are not avaiable, Space Wolves in a long campaign, and Lamenters are gonna rub their bad luck on us. Is there any other nice Chapter nearby? Commissar: It seems the Blood Ravens are close to this system. Lord General: Damn... Well, guess we will be short of some equipment after this war. Call them and let's hope they don't take the Titan when we're not looking...

[@Interrobang212]

This is actually a huge reason why the Armageddon wars were such quagmires. If the marine chapters had even been somewhat united with each other, let alone the Guard, they'd all have been much easier.

[@ncrvako]

He says this while being at a safe distance both from the battle as a general and from the space marines and their balls of steel.

[@randomelite4562]

A general fighting in the front lines is a useless one

[@ncrvako]

@@randomelite4562 you mean a general of the imperial guard even when he fights he is useless?

[@randomelite4562]

@@ncrvako Sure buddy, whatever you wanna say

[@ncrvako]

@@randomelite4562 so you admit i am right and the imperial guard generals are cowards?

[@randomelite4562]

@@ncrvako Lol, keep making things up ig bud

[@narendransuresh5592]

Stories aside his music edits hit...i really wanna know about his playlist....!!

[@JoshBeck-z5m]

Lion El Johnson (watching this short) Dark angels (sweating profusely)

[@gtassa01]

A microcosm of a problem affecting the whole imperium

[@bige4333]

Salamanders have such a uphill battle

[@michaelcollins4534]

"WET. HAPPY. IN MY GOOP. SLOPPED UP. SQUELCHING." -Guilliman, probably

[@sirneko1278]

FINALLY, someone with balls say it

[@Nyrm01]

Don't forget astartes are just fancy equipped child soldiers

[@sirpompom2295]

The established lore and all it's stories makes me love homebrews all the more. My lads might not risk everything we have for the common people though we'll do everything we can when we can but we'll actually cooperate with our allies and even stick around to clean up and ensure nothing catches on fire the momen we leave. Presides, makes for great training while the bulk of us move onto the next fight.

[@RM-mw2xr]

Lamenters: "Hold my bolter."