Specialized Praxis Works Chainrings Are a Scam

[@CRF236]

Very helpful as my branded specialized one has just needed replacing.

[@dant.6364]

I can believe I stumbled on a KZbinr giving honest reviews lol.

[@tylereckert9484]

Great video! I ordered a set of these on sale this Spring and immediately returned. Had the same assumption as you.

[@jasonchen1733]

I love how you said they are a Scam, that was what I thought too!

[@ryanjofre]

I’ve been a fan of Specialized since 1995. This man is speaking pure truth! I own a 2019 Sirrus elite carbon fitness bike. It was fitted with the outstanding forged Praxis works Alba crank arms but Specialized fitted low end chainrings that have prematurely worn out. The Specialized rings aren’t made to special specifications, Specialized probably just bought a ton of the cheaper rings from Praxis and marked them way the fuk up!! Scam is to harsh of a term imo. Specialized isn’t trying to scam us, they’re ripping us off BIG TIME. You can buy the Buzz Sport rings from Praxis for $90 or the TOTL Uber Buzz rings from Praxis For $155. Shimano GRX rings also fit the Praxis cranks.

[@ryanjofre]

The Praxis buzz rings are still obscenely expensive but they’re worth it for TOTL well designed & cold forged rings. I’ve heard people say they shift & feel better than Ultegra.

[@twillyspanksyourcakes]

"I've heard people say"

[@ryanjofre]

@@twillyspanksyourcakes Local cyclists that I trust implicitly.

[@Leo-gt1bx]

They are not expensive

[@ztzexplorer]

I’m wanting to build a bike with Campy 12 speed but don’t want to get new cranks. I’m thinking of putting Praxis’ 12 speed rings on my SRAM Red 22 cranks. Praxis claims compatibility with all 12 speed systems, but I’m skeptical. I doubt a Campy 12 speed chain can mesh with SRAM 12 speed rings given that SRAM designed the tooth profiles and valleys to work their flat top chains. Am I right? Do you think Praxis rings are really designed to work with Shimano & Campy but are only advertised to be compatible with SRAM 12 speed?

[@Mamilian]

I don't know about Campy, but the rings are compatible with Shimano 12 spd.

[@ztzexplorer]

@@Mamilian thanks

[@drewwilkins9963]

No discussion of stiffness or tooth shape. Not contradicting conclusions here, but a responsible assessment will cover everything before casting stones.

[@Mamilian]

Thanks for your comment. I covered the visual appearance between the three ringsets starting around the 3:50 mark. Perhaps I could have called out, louder, that I wasn't able to tell any tangible difference b/w the rings (which includes the teeth) on the Specialized Praxis chainrings and the Praxis Buzz/Buzz Sport rings. Both are made by Praxis, of the same material (you can verify this by looking at the specifications on their respective sites). I believe I used the term "crazy talk" to describe the idea that Praxis would be OEM'g a ring with a better tooth design to Specialized than they use on their top-end ring. I stand by that assessment. It would make no sense for Praxis to hobble their "best" product so Specialized can sell a tiny number of chainrings. Remember, Praxis is in the chainring business. Specialized is reselling Praxis rings, because they are not. If it was a Specialized "clean-room" design, the branding would be very, very different. And it would be obvious, visually, that the tooth or ramp design was different. Like it is when comparing Shimano and Praxis rings. Given the same kind of aluminum, and lack of structural or visible difference in the implementation there should be zero measurable difference in stiffness (withing manufacturing tolerances, obviously) between the Buzz Sport and Specialized rings. That would require some difference in shape or material, that is how physics works. The answer here is obvious. There is nothing that suggests otherwise. As I mentioned in the video, they appear to be exactly the same ring, except one says "Specialized" on it. It is possible that there is a detectable difference in stiffness between the higher end (lighter) Buzz and the Specialized rings, as there is additional machining to remove material on the Buzz to make them lighter (which is probably what you're paying for there). But, that's not really the right question to ask. The right question to ask isn't if there are differences, it's whether those differences matter at valid human producible torque levels. I don't know the answer to that question, and I don't have the tools to measure it. Sorry. What I can say, with absolute confidence, is that I have never questioned the structural rigidity of the Praxis Buzz rings on either of the bikes I have them on. They are fantastic. I also ride Shimano road rings, I would put them around the same level for shifting performance as the 11spd Shimano DA/Ultegra. 12spd Shimano, might have a slight edge. I try to be as complete as possible. I apologize that I didn't hit your definition for that. If you feel that the Specialized rings are worth it, I have no problem with you buying them. Enjoy. Personally, I will stay away. I don't believe that there is any evidence that suggests that they are doing anything but rebadging Praxis Buzz Sport rings and marking them up.

[@rpowell2010]

Thanks for the helpful video. I was looking at the Specialized version but it wasnt clear what Praxis version it was based on. Ip

[@leonidascarranza7893]

I need a option for this chainrings, in my country dont sell this praxis. Whats is a good option for replace the chainrings Praxis Alba?

[@Mamilian]

Maybe Rotor? What bolt pattern do you need?

[@vladipp2850]

good catch!

[@awesomexistence]

Having replaced and run the Specialized Praxis rings I can attest that they are wearing less quickly than Praxis. There are many different grades of aluminum with different levels of hardness treatment which can affect the wear performance. You made no mention of the “type” nor “surface hardness” comparison in which to qualify your assumption. Weight alone as well as additional machining is not a full factor in reviewing. Stiffness when crosschaining?

[@Mamilian]

Go have a look at the specifications for both the Praxis Buzz/Buzz Sport rings and the Specialized Praxis rings. The material is the same "Cold Forged | 7075-T6 Aluminum". Even if, by some loophole in material science and physics, your findings are correct you can buy 1.5 Praxis Buzz Sport rings for every Specialized Praxis ring. Which makes the Buzz Sport still a win on value for money unless they wear at a rate which flips the equation dramatically... I have 12,510.5 miles on the road bike where I run Praxis Buzz rings. Given the amount of wear, I suspect that they will last at least another 12,510.5 miles. That said, if you enjoy your Specialized Praxis rings, and feel they were money well spent. That's great. You should continue to enjoy them. Cheers

[@awesomexistence]

@@Mamilian, the Specialized Praxis rings have been priced at $99 for some time. My Old set of Praxis Buzz rings were totally worn at just over 12,000 miles and that was with running a high quality and frequent waxed chain/chainring set. The “loophole in material science” and having many years experience in materials quality control for aerospace manufacturing tells me the amount of cold forging (those recesses are not machined) to produce the recesses and achieve the lighter weight of one vs the other may have actually reduced the tempering (original T6 cold forging creates immediate immense heat if overworked essentially annealing it). Praxis makes bold claims but does not certify their materials. Aerospace requires materials certification throughout the process. Summarizing; the Specialised version may weigh more with less forming but stay true to the T6 temper. When lightweight is an obsession, often durability suffers.

[@Mamilian]

@@awesomexistence I'm glad you're enjoying your Praxis rings with the Specialized logo on the front. I wasn't aware that Specialized had lowered the price, that's great news. Looks like you're only paying $9 for the logo now! Given your level of expertise on the topic, please test the differences and publish a white paper which detail the differences in the 7075-T6 Al in Praxis rings vs the 7075-T6 Al in the Praxis rings that Specialized resells. My email address is [e-mail]. Send it over when you're ready. Provided a sound scientific approach, I will happily make a video covering your findings and include a retraction discussion referencing this video. I look forward to reading it. FWIW, I don't think weight is a metric of quality. I don't remember ever claiming that, but if I did, I apologize. Weight is a number. That number matters to some people. Many people prefer to make their bikes lighter. There are marginal gains in some situations to doing that, maybe that's why. The why doesn't really matter, it's their preference and they are willing to pay for it. So it's important to include that number in a product discussion. In this video I mentioned the weight, because it's difference, and why reducing weight would cost more (i.e. extra machining cost). I am OK with with that preference. All things equal, I also prefer lighter weight components on my road bike. If weight doesn't matter to someone, that's also OK. I don't care about weight on my gravel or TT bikes. For those people, the Buzz Sport is an excellent option. It's probably the same thing, minus the logo, as what Specialized is selling. Given that Praxis manufactures both rings, out of the same material. Also, I think it's bizarre that you piss on Praxis's specification copy, then happily trust Praxis's specification copy when Specialized says it on their site. Again, if you are enjoying the Specialized rings, which are manufactured by Praxis, out of the same material that they make their rings out of, that's awesome. It's great that you're happy with that purchase. I hope you continue to enjoy them.

[@awesomexistence]

You can enjoy the extra couple ounces less- I’ll take the durability and work on fitness and mileage. I already expressed my experience with the durability issue. Ride more and enjoy.

[@Mamilian]

Like I said before. I haven't had the durability issues that you claim to have experienced. Feel free to check out my Strava profile before commenting further on fitness and time on the bike: www.strava.com/athletes/8705651. Fairly confident I'm in a good position to comment on training, fitness, and the use/durability of cycling equipment.

[@rosomak8244]

You are wrong. Both are buying at the same Chinese manufacturer requesting different logo paintings. They don't manufacture anything.

[@Mamilian]

LLOL! Thanks 😂

[@joeG314]

It’s amazing how many argumentative comments there are on this video. People are drinking the specialized Kool-Aid big time!

[@rosomak8244]

Recently a neighbour bought himself a whatever brand carbon frame bike. I recommended to him that he may use some protective tape here and there to prevent the frame from being destroyed too quickly by in esp. the chain smashing the backstay. He rejected that with the words that you don't wrap up a ferrari. What a dork. For me bikes are utilities and not peacock tails. BTW. His bike was about 5 times more expensive and about 1.5kg heavier than my self build.

[@nikkershaw4785]

Your argument is a bit confusing/incomplete and can stand some refinement. Consider removing the Buzz chainrings out of your argument as that really has little bearing on your comparison with the Buzz Sport version with the Specialized version of the chainrings and their design similarities and cost difference. If you are going to give a fair comparison, we need to look at the details. You simply state that, "there are some differences" between the Buzz Sport and the Specialized chainrings but you never drill down into those differences. There are costs involved in crafting bike parts (any product for that matter). Special design features that make the product better, extra machine milling to remove extra material for a lighter product and any other added processes all factor into the final cost of a product. With that, could you make a part two detailing exactly what the differences are between the Specialized and Buzz chainrings? I really would like to know these differences and knowing this we can really make an educated conclusion on if this is a scam or not. If there are absolutely no gains from the Specialized version of the chainrings compared to the Buzz chainrings, then you may offer the Buzz Sport as a better deal for the same price as they are lighter. Also, in general, having products endorsed or cobranded with a reputable company, one should expect to pay more as that company endorsement comes with some level of confidence that you are buying a quality product and their reputation is on the line if that product is substandard.

[@Mamilian]

Hi Nik, thanks for your comment. I'm sorry if my statements confused you, let me break it down here, hopefully more clearly. TLDW; I believe that Specialized is rebranding Praxis Buzz Sport Rings. Selling a product which retails for $90 (Praxis Buzz Sport) for $150 (Specialized Praxis Rings). Drilling into your comments a bit: - The Buzz ($150) rings were included because they provide a clear price marker to contrast the Specialized ($150) rings against. Both ringsets retail for the same price, are manufactured by the same company, for the same purpose. But, one is measurably superior to the other in a way that is important to many cyclists (i.e. weight). - I said that there are differences between the Specialized rings ($150) and the Praxis Buzz ($150) rings on the front and back, and then went on to show the differences on the back where they are most significant. The difference is in the machined portions of the rings to make them lighter; this is most notable on the back. I thought I made this clear in the video, and after watching it again, I still think this was clear, but obviously you missed it. Maybe have another watch? - I went on to say that the Specialized rings ($150) are almost identical to the Praxis Buzz Sport ($90) rings on both the front and back, and then showed the front and back where we can see that they are, indeed, almost identical. I did not state clearly that the only visible differences that I can detect are branding (i.e. the Specialized rings have "Specialized" printed on them) and some shinny black paint on the front of the Specialized rings. I regret this omission. - I believe the price difference between the Buzz ($150) and Buzz Sport ($90) is due to the additional machining done to make them lighter. All three rings are manufactured using the same grade of aluminum and process, and I cannot see any material differences in the teeth or shifting ramps on them. It is possible that there are differences, but both claim the same Praxis LevaTime shifting technology both on the rings and in Praxis' marketing. If there were differences present, one could reasonably expect that Praxis would be clear about them to up-sell the more expensive product. - I do not believe that there are any features on the Specialized rings that make them functionally superior to the Buzz or Buzz Sport rings. They are all made from the same material, using the same process, and use the same shifting technology. I also find it hard to believe that Specialized would have some kind of shifting "special sauce" that wasn't known to a company who specializes in making drive train components. If they did, given Specialized marketing chops we could reasonably expect them to 1) trumpet that 2) not allow Praxis to also put its name on the Specialized rings. That's generally how contract manufacturing works. - I do not believe that it is reasonable to just accept a $60 co-branding markup. That said, everyone's value preferences are different. If someone wants to pay $60 to have "Specialized" printed on the side of their Buzz Sport rings, that is a valid choice for them. But, in a broader context I think transparency around that choice so buyers can make an educated decision is required. What Specialized is doing is not transparent. Shining a light on this lack of transparency was the goal of this video. Hope that clears it up. Have a nice day.

[@znanyokon345]

Do dupy z tym praxis

[@moehoward9473]

Hum, this gets me thinking… Tesla’s Model S is also a scam,, I could by a Nissan Leaf for way cheaper… I mean there are some differences, but still… right?

[@Mamilian]

Thanks for your comment. I didn't realize that Tesla was manufacturing the Nissan Leaf, or that Nissan was charging Model S $ for the Leaf. I learn something new everyday. 🙏

[@moehoward9473]

Yea, as noted, there are “some” differences…

[@Mamilian]

I never noticed that they look the same too 🤦‍♂️.

[@moehoward9473]

Yea, there are “some” differences.

[@Mamilian]

@@moehoward9473 As you seem to be repeating yourself, I thought it might be useful to drop the sarcasm and discuss your analogy in more detail. As we all know, every analogy breaks down at a certain point, unfortunately yours never gets out of the garage, but let's dig in anyway. The first issue is that Tesla doesn't OEM the Leaf. Then there's the it's-a-whole-different product; in size, shape, technology, pricing, market segment, performance, steering wheel, etc. Pretty much everything that can differentiate a Model S from a Leaf does, except that they are both transportation appliances with four wheels and use the same fuel. Of all the car based analogies you could have gone with, some of which might have even been tangentially applicable, this one? 🤯. Just to be clear, the thing that I suggest in this video is that Specialized is rebadging Praxis Buzz Sport ($90) road rings and charging $60 for their name and some glossy paint. If you're cool with that, totally fine, but now you know that's the only detectable difference. However, I suspect that $60 would be better spent on a Motor Trend subscription.