*SPIDER-MAN 2* is a one big cheese-fest (and I LOVE it)

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Original Movie: Spider-Man 2
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[@neomoscoso10]

That train fight is a cinematic classic that stood the test of time.

[@atifahmed6036]

still holds up in 2022, personally I think the fighting style in this movie is better than most modern marvel movies :))

[@Deeznutz1067.]

Yeah maybe, but he still looks constipated

[@rinesin]

Agreed, one of the best super hero / villain fight scenes ever.

[@atifahmed6036]

@@Deeznutz1067. constipated maguire is the best maguire After bully maguire of course

[@skateurself]

Doc Oc is kind of a genius. A lot of villians will distract the hero by making him save innocent people.. but Doc puts spider man in a situation that will totally zap him of his strength.. so he can basically just carry him off lmao. I love how in SMNWH *SPOILER ALERT* He comes back as one of the good guys... kind of a nod to Terminator II ;)

[@Gachimon2000]

"This guy seems like a nice scientist guy" Literally almost every Spiderman villain ever.

[@vaish7bijith]

-Norman Osborn(Green Goblin) -Octavius (Doc Ock) -Dr. Connors (Lizard) -Quentin Beck (Mysterio) -Max (Electro) Missing anyone?

[@Сайтамен]

You know, they all are something of scientists themselves...

[@deeby929]

@@vaish7bijith vulture

[@unlimited971]

And i uno( for the lulz) you with kraven, scorpio, venom, electro, mobius, punisher, kingpin, etv

[@Daniel.RF.Davidson]

You made me remember Ned`s lines on NWH... - Is this a crazy scientist who turned himself into a tree? LOL

[@jackmichael2442]

“He humiliated me by touching me”.. I'm going to use this line whenever someone I don't like touches me for the rest of my life.

[@bigfudge2031]

Is it often you get touched by guys

[@SkidmoreTx]

That line reminded of “nobody makes me bleed my own blood”

[@SaraphDarklaw]

@@bigfudge2031 They try often.

[@TheSchnieder6]

You could use it after just the first touch though... it doesn't have to be a lifelong recurrence

[@Christopher._M]

​@@SkidmoreTxhahaha

[@carrbender]

Natalie: “Spider-Man 2 is one big cheese fest” Spider-Man 3: Hold my beer, cause I’m gonna put some dirt in her eye (Funky Soul plays)🕺🕺🕺🕺

[@rexyz5875]

Greatest scene in all of spiderman films

[@Vinnie3633]

Great song .

[@blueroninstudios]

lol no spoilers! damn was that funny tho!

[@hzjake]

Oh You gonna cry?

[@lonnieeastin6401]

All you had to say was "Spider-Man 3: Hold my beer" because the rest of it was inferred. LOL

[@JedHead77]

Fun Fact: The two boys who find Spidey’s mask and return it to him are actually Tobey Maguire’s half-brothers.

[@ThetrueHeero]

I thought nephews?

[@twisted_legacy]

I'm glad a lot more people also know this fun fact.

[@lolmao500]

@@twisted_legacy Yeah but did you know Virgo mortensen broke his toe in lord of the ring

[@deegee6863]

@@lolmao500 and his tooth too

[@djcantskate3883]

I thought they were raimi's kids

[@mikechalabi9763]

I love the hospital sequence. It’s a perfect homage to Raimi’s previous horror movies

[@spongeaang98]

Even the way the guy brings up the chainsaw was an Evil Dead reference! It's so great.

[@TheMisterHache]

No man, you don't get it. ITS CHEESY. Can't you see it is one big cheese-fest? (It sucks that I have to state this but, yes, I'm being sarcastic)

[@bigpace]

@@TheMisterHache xD thank you

[@KevyNova]

Best scene in the movie, if you’re an Evil Dead fan like me.

[@Linerunner99]

This scene is VERY similar to the alien "autopsy" scene in Independence Day.

[@lordofninjas1]

So what's interesting is that the Doc Ock arms were actually a practical effect, like Molina was actually strapped into that thing and they had 4 guys in green suits moving the arms around, he talks about it in an interview for No Way Home basically saying that he's glad in NWH that the arms are fully CG. Also, IIRC the scene with the Spidey suit in the trash can is an almost exact recreation of a comic panel. They do that from time to time, like the final fight in Civil War where Iron Man is shooting the laser at Caps shield, that's a near exact recreation of a panel from an actual Civil War comic.

[@CaptainFrost32]

Comic book cover with the question : Spider-Man, no more?

[@lord2.0works]

Only sad thing since arms are CG in No Way Home we can't have a part 2 to the famous "If I were a rich man" bts moment

[@Cardioligist]

Marvel has such a big budget, whyyy cant they invest that into more practical effects is my question. I loved no way home but the cgi was ehhhhhh at times

[@Progress303]

Also the shot of them both on the web, the trilogy actually takes a lot of shots from the original panels.

[@lord2.0works]

@@G3609 Bruh it's almost two months

[@AuyongProductions]

I think you misunderstood the essence of what being Spider-Man is. Of course it is easy to say Peter disappoints others often but this is because being Spider-Man is a sacrifice for "the good of mankind" he does not like to let other down and hurt them but when compared to what is at stake Peter would rather hurt the feelings of others than let people die

[@blueberrydenim4807]

This. Every iteration of Spider-Man has these traits

[@jwm1444]

But, and I say this as a long time fan, Peter brings a lot of this on himself in ways that he could mitigate. Yes, he should be Spider-Man, but that doesn't mean the people who love him shouldn't know, and if anything that punishes them and himself for no reason. It's one of the things I like about MCU Peter. And one of the most frustrating aspects of NWH.

[@AuyongProductions]

@James Rhodes I would say Andrew Garfield's iteration of Spider-Man is the prime example of why Peter is terrified of the idea of letting those closest to him know he is Spider-Man. Gwen knew, and she wanted to be involved with not only Peter Parkers life but also Spider-Man's. At the end of the movie, she chose to help Spider-Man defeat electro. She knew Peter was Spider-Man and was willing to put herself in danger, the danger that will always follow Spider-Man. Ultimately, we know what happened. It put her in the position to be killed by goblin. I think for Peter it is easier to keep the identities of Spider-Man and Peter Parker separate not only from his enemies but to those he loves.

[@jwm1444]

@@AuyongProductions and I absolutely get that. But, at the end of the day it's not Peter's fault that the people around him make those decision. I know that's blasphemous to say but it's the truth. I think this goes into the issue of comic characters not being able to really change and constantly being adapted and re-adapted over time, we can't keep hitting these same beats all the time. Its stale and limiting to these characters. It's why I didn't really like NWH that much because we are headed for yet another Spider-Man story where Peter is alone and constantly battles with the internal fight of wanting to be with people but not being able to because of his responsibility as Spidey and its just tiring after a while.

[@AuyongProductions]

@James Rhodes Yes, I can see your point, but I think at his core, that is just who Spider-Man is. Spider-Man is one of the most popular Marvel characters in existence, and I think it's simply because people can relate to him. People, especially the younger generation (myself included), are lonely, afraid, awkward, and often put ourselves in stupid situations, and even as you said, become our worst enemies in a sense. Maybe we make things harder than it needs to be, but at the end of the day, we choose to do these things because we believe it's right. I think this is Spider-Man in a nutshell. he is not perfect and isn't in constant struggle trying to figure out what he is supposed to have in life; is he supposed to be happy? And at what cost? Should he give up his responsibility and be selfish and just enjoy a life he feels he's entitled to? I think the hardest decisions are often the correct ones. I think most people emulate themselves after Peter Parker and not Spider-Man. It's like in NWH, when goblin says "strong enough to have it all hut too weak to take it."This line is the epitome of Peter Parker having the ability to get what he wants but realizing that the risk of getting it outweighs everything else. We all want to be Spider-Man, but many of us are Peter Parker. For Peter to willing choose to be Peter Parker, a lonely, scared, and at many times lost teen/young adults shows how self sacrificing he is.

[@jordanholstein8023]

What some call cheesy I call a movie with a personality

[@bbtank3000]

Same here, man. Same here.

[@shawnjames3242]

@@pacermusicmaker7930 i love this movie and its probably one of the greatest superhero movies of all time. But it IS cheesy.

[@hzjake]

I call a movie with a heart!

[@JD-jz5gu]

@@shawnjames3242 there are cheesy parts, but the movie as a whole isn’t cheesy

[@vanyadolly]

Exactly. Especially since, like Nat said, superhero movies are so similar. Half the time I see a marvel movie I come out of the cinema feeling like I've seen it before. But these movies have something else.

[@jgrado3]

Alfred Molina, man, the dude who single-handedly (so to speak) revolutionised a character who was originally thought to be unfilmable. One of the best performances of the series.

[@CalciumChief]

He didn't really "revolutionise" the character. This isn't some Batman TAS Mr. Freeze over here. This idea of him Golluming it up with his tentacles was never adapted into any other incarnation, especially not the comics. This idea stays exclusive to the Raimi trilogy Doc Ock.

[@askalano]

@@CalciumChief so he did something against the norm and unique with this Doc Ock…sounds a bit “revolutionary” to me.

[@CalciumChief]

@@askalano No, that's just a different take.

[@nathansossai]

@@askalano He did the exact same thing willem dafoe did in the previous movie. What's so revolutionary about it? Also that cliché is in most raimi movies.

[@LorianandLothric]

You're right. When Doc Oct was announced as the villain the audience thought it couldn't be pulled off on screen. Raimi and Alfred Molina proved them dead wrong

[@Happofusagarii]

The fights in this movie were fantastic for how old it is, still a top tier superhero fight too on the train

[@mitchhamilton64]

thats the one thing that raimis spiderman really nails that the others just dont capture as much or as well, the fights and web swinging. theres some cool amazing stuff and i feel like we just barely see that stuff in recent movies. dont know about something, something home but just something raimi did amazing with.

[@shockzz1234]

I'd argue it's still the best choreographed fight scene in superhero movies till this day tbh. MCU fights are hype and look cool and flashy but a lot of them lack in the choreograph department imo. Though Shang-Chi and Winter Soldier were both good in that regard.

[@Happofusagarii]

@@mitchhamilton64 I know what you mean and it’s true

[@jkfozul2316]

Spidey and doc falling off that tower fighting is possibly my all time favorite sequence

[@Mugetsu2021]

@@mitchhamilton64 TASM series nailed one thing, the web swinging, lets not dismiss that.

[@jblitz1556]

I think the reason why this movie's cheese works in its favour is because it's so sincere and well-intentioned about it. Raimi knows exactly when to add a joke, or punch a moment, and he does that so consistently that it becomes endearing.

[@sylvester3018]

I would prefer that to the cotton candy marvel movies that try so hard to be funny with cringe ass jokes every 5 mins

[@jblitz1556]

@@sylvester3018 Being in the midst of an MCU rewatch, I entirely agree. Comedy is one of their biggest weaknesses and beyond Iron Man 1-3 and the Guardians films (ie. where it is an actual part of the character development), it's such a vibe killer.

[@Aro7241]

@@sylvester3018 So you prefer not cringe jokes like "That's a nice dress.. Did your husband give that to you" and very clever wordplays like " It's you who's out gobby. Out of your Mind! "

[@jasontodd6779]

@@Aro7241 Sam raimi know how to use and when to put Jokes in his movie. His movie has alot of Jokes but it never was comedy. It's a serious drama with comedy in it. MCU new movies often feel like comedy. They try so hard to put a joke every few minutes. It fun to watch but annoying too.

[@sylvester3018]

@@Aro7241 that or my favorite one, “oh look at little goblin jr, gonna cry? 🤣

[@redviper6805]

Best movie of the trilogy! Alfred Molina was terrific! Little inside joke when Peter fails to make that jump and says ‘My back. Oh! My back!” After filming Seabiscuit between the Spider-Man movies, a pre-existing back condition that Maguire suffered from was bothering him and Sony was faced with the possibility of recasting their lead. Negotiations arose to replace Maguire with Jake Gyllenhaal! Fortunately he recovered and was able to reprise his role for the sequel.

[@The_Phantasm]

And No Way Home makes an awesome callback to it.

[@reginaldgickington4793]

Also, before he jumps, he says "I need a strong focus". The car he lands on is a Ford Focus. One might even call it a strong one.

[@WigganNuG]

Isn't it funny that Jake Gyllenhaal finally got his Spider-Man movie as Mysterio; a character who try's to usurp Peter-Parker/Spidermans role as the next leader of the Avengers/ "Next Iron Man/Tony Stark" a role that Tony himself intended to go to Spider-Man, and "E.D.I.T.H" was the literal "torch" being passed on.

[@kyzogla1]

Not the best the first was the best

[@joegoldberg3481]

@@sosexyimsexy3210 f outta way!!

[@DresdanPI]

Not everything is 'cheesy' The hospital scene is probably one of the best and most remembered scenes in Spiderman 2

[@_the_rizzler]

More so campy and the hospital scene definitely is that. It's the way it's filmed. Very Sam Raimi

[@paulknaus595]

A lot of what comes across as 'cheesiness' comes from the comic book aesthetic they seem to have had in mind when filming this. If you pay attention to the scene cuts and camera angles, they look a lot like comic book frames. One of the reasons I love this trilogy is how much it reminds me of reading comics as a kid.

[@mohammedashian8094]

Not really it’s mostly Sam Raimi’s style of filmmaking he lives for that shtick

[@MAT7OPS]

@@mohammedashian8094 that’s why he is perfect for cbms

[@carlosramos3890]

Enjoy the cheesiness, there is nothing wrong with it, it makes the movie more memorable

[@mohammedashian8094]

@@MAT7OPS damn straight

[@noneya3635]

It’s also Sam Rami being Sam Rami. There’s a reason the evil dead / Army of Darkness movies are what they are.

[@marcofernando9058]

It’s not “early 2000’s editing” it’s Sam Raimi’s style. He used it long before and after this movie.

[@Youngfreeimaginary]

It’s kinda frustrating that (because you’re unfamiliar with Sam Raimi’s trademark style) you think certain sequences are cheesy/dated. It’s a completely intentional stylistic choice that Raimi uses in most of his films. Evil Dead, Drag Me To Hell, Darkman, Oz etc. Just wish you knew that it’s a Raimi thing but I guess you haven’t seen anything else from his filmography.

[@michellexox4843]

it’s also because she watched MCU stuff first and those are not stylised at all. Raimi actually made a movie that nailed feeling like a comic book.

[@Nonexistent097]

Raimi’s style is cheesy and corny. That’s probably what he wanted, to make it feel more like a comic book

[@JackGiblenSinger]

Most people think that tbh, they expect it to be TDK or current MCU super serious stuff so when they see how eccentric and full of life it is, people are like ‘omg it aged so badly😂😂’

[@angelaalfaro6905]

These movies being cheesy doesn’t make it bad. Certain effects are outdated, but that doesn’t detract from the film overall. They’re cheesy, but in a good way!

[@mielipuolisiili7240]

I mean it can be cheesy even if it's an intentional style tho.

[@humanoid251]

Even though I prefer the first one because of Willem Dafoe’s performance, this is heralded as the best superhero movie of all time “Is he love sick?” Yes! Finally someone who caught that dialogue Fun fact: you can always tell who’s controlling who from the lights inside the arms. If they’re white Otto’s in control of the arms, if they’re red the arms are controlling Otto Believe it or not, Rosemary Harris (Aunt May) did her own stunts for those Doc Ock scenes. What a badass This movie implies that both Aunt May and Robbie from The Bugle know. Aunt May’s speech is obvious, Robbie after the incident with Otto’s reactor tells Peter “I heard Spider-Man was there” and gives him a look. The subtle storytelling in these movies is unmatched When you think about it, Aunt May’s speech had a hand in both heroic moments Peter had after fighting Otto. Stopping the train: “hold on a second longer.” Bringing Otto back: “Sometimes we have to be steady…” Fun fact: Norman Osborn wasn’t supposed to appear in this movie but Willem Dafoe visited the set and they decided to add that scene in. If I remember right in the comics the Osborns suffer from schizophrenia and the goblin persona is a hallucination for both of them. So I think that scene sort of hints at that

[@PantsuMaster]

@@The_Phantasm Huh who tf said The Dark Knight is number 1? Bruh, The Dark Knight was carried by joker, but the overall movie isn’t really agreed to be number 1.

[@magortom]

SHOUTS OUT TO ROSEMARY, she's awesome for that and for her underappreciated performances

[@antoniosousa6163]

Well said man. :)

[@keru6925]

Where did you hear about that last one, where Dafoe visited on set, if you don’t mind me asking? Is it in an interview or something?

[@SergioArellano-yd7ik]

She was used to wire work. She once played Peter Pan in a stage production

[@videovoidtv]

Sam Rami has such an amazing balance of tone in this movie. Its why it can be so cheesy and still feel real and touching. Thats so difficult to do. The actors are directed perfectly and really deliver.

[@The_Phantasm]

Except Kirsten Dunst as MJ. Easily the worst love interest in any Spider-Man movie.

[@videovoidtv]

@@The_Phantasm Eehhhh… Maybe its a nostalgia crush but she plays this version of MJ pretty well to me. Hard to erase a hot redheaded Dunst from my 12yr old memory lol

[@The_Phantasm]

@@videovoidtv For me it's Emma Stone every time. A significantly superior character I might add.

[@sylvester3018]

Only raimi can give a fun and lighthearted movie some violent action scenes and make it believable

[@Kayoss13212]

Yeah. It has a good balance of humor and seriousness. You can tell how natural the humor is, and that the movie doesn’t have to stop for a funny moment.

[@magnusingi9384]

Her: OMG so cheesy Me: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[@lalitthapa101]

Peter Parker's life Is sooo shit from every direction yet he still decides to go out and be spiderman. And that's the beauty of spiderman. Its about the choice to do the right thing when you have every justification to not do it.

[@WhiteFangofWar]

The novelization of this movie is downright cruel about it; Peter keeps hallucinating Uncle Ben in his mind criticizing him whenever he has thoughts about quitting or even taking a day off.

[@hyteclowlife]

That's why this is the perfect cinematic version of Spider-Man. Every single decision he has to make is between a normal life and being a hero. And he bears the cost of that decision, no matter how heavy it becomes.

[@1dudecrush]

There’s a running theory that aunt may figured out who Spider-Man was pretty early on in this movie. That’s why she was so hurt by that revelation of Ben’s death, and it comes into play in the next movie as well. But she’s hip to it while playing coy about it all.

[@Mopark25]

Yeah she figures it out at the bank. Her monologue later on only really makes sense if she knows as well

[@a_fine_edition2746]

It was probably when he shouted “I’m coming. Hang on!” Durin his fight with Otto. I the camera pans to her and she has this look on her face that makes me feel like that was when she knew.

[@JohnSmith-wh2ob]

I think that moment is when Peter yells HANG ON!!! The way she looks it’s like she notices who’s voice that is and from that moment on she knows least my opinion

[@LeonardoKlotz]

You know, I love when horror directors make superhero movies

[@Wolfeur]

Can't wait for Doctor Strange 2

[@matthewm5581]

Before The Lord of the Rings, Peter Jackson directed B-movie horror.

[@adamsbriee6330]

It’s what dc has been doing with their movies recently

[@UncleRico21]

Did Nat really say "Serves you right" to Peter for missing MJ's play because he was busy SAVING PEOPLE'S LIVES??? Like what the hell no it most certainly did not serve him right haha

[@catfightparadise]

She's not much of a critical thinker.

[@GOLDY452]

Women moment

When I see this movie after 'that', only one line comes to my mind. "Trying to do better."

[@Slicedude2004]

I seem to be the only one who cried during that scene

[@204154529]

Unpopular opinion here, but i totally didn't enjoy this reaction. You basically shat on the movie all the way through. At the time it wasn't intended to be cheesy of course. I think it's just because your partner mentioned cheesy you went on howling about every scene being cheesy. Your first reaction wasn't like this and it was pretty much the same type of movie.

[@ulic96]

It can be an unpopular opinion, but it's also mine. I couldn't enjoy this reaction that much

[@dasc0yne]

Trust me. The cheese is intentionally excessive This is a Sam Raimi movie. The operating room scene, in particular, is classic Raimi cheese and I love it.

[@CaptainFrost32]

And all three movies have Bruce Campbell. Hail to the King, baby.

[@ImperialGodzilla]

The reason he's obsessed with the machine is because the arms were programmed specifically for it, so they're making him complete it to fulfill their purpose

[@aravindmuthu5748]

That's a really good insight. I get it

[@kyo2975]

He wasn't just getting sick from keeping his love for MJ inside and not telling her... He was experiencing PTSD because of the secrets he was keeping from everyone, the whole thing of leading two different lives, and then not being able to balance his two lives. The death of uncle Ben, the death of Norman, trying to do the right thing ALL THE TIME, and life is still shitting on him. So it started working against his abilities. So sad how much the world was beating him down through the first two acts of the movie, just because he carried all of that on his shoulders.

[@magortom]

And one that just occurred to me is that he never told aunt May about his involvement with Ben's death. And I do not blame him for that incident it was not his fault at all but we know what kind of kid Peter is and exactly how he would probably internalize that guilt

[@kristol569]

Nah, earlier in the movie Otto said "something as complicated as loved shouldn't be kept inside, it will make you sick", then he started loosing his powers right after MJ told him she was seeing someone and loose them all when he founds out she's getting married. PTSD should be a factor but not in this story

[@magortom]

@@kristol569 I'm sorry but you don't get to pick and choose which traumatic experiences give you PTSD, this story can be about him bottling it up but also embrace that he does have a lot of pent up trauma that he hides under the mask of Spider-Man that he doesn't deal with emotionally. It's all right there in the movie, just because there isn't a special line addressing it and pushing it directly in your face doesn't mean that it isn't obviously happening, this is a culmination of things for sure as it would be for any human being. From the beginning of the movie we're shown that his life is a stressful brutal mess so those are also factoring into him losing his powers, bro gets shit on at every turn in this movie and you mean to tell me that none of it matters at all and is just in the movie to waste time because the only thing that matters is that he's losing his powers because he's not telling MJ that he loves her? Like think about that for 5 minutes. It's pretty much the equivalent of saying Peter Parker is only Spider-Man because Ben died and that after Ben died he isn't motivated by any sense of morality or righteousness he's just Spider-Man because Ben died that's all it can only be that because we watch Ben die and then he becomes Spider-Man right after, it's a completely lacking assessment that omits a bunch of stuff

[@Karma-pq9fi]

It’s a combination of everything happening in his life I’d say it’s more like constant anxiety.

[@Aurich88]

27:30 The arms were created for the sole purpose of sustaining a fusion reaction, so it makes sense that when they're controlling him that's all he cares about.

[@ayyyiss5483]

*Man tries to find a way to give free and renewable energy to the world. Ends up indirectly killing his wife instead. "That's so cheesy, oh my god!"

[@catfightparadise]

Everything is cheesy apparently with this chick.

[@mohammedashian8094]

“She has to be wet in every movie” If this wasn’t a superhero movie that line would’ve meant something ENTIRELY different

[@TheSchnieder6]

What? I've seen plenty of superhero movies where this is applicable, they do tend to re-use the same male lead quite often though.

[@mohammedashian8094]

@@TheSchnieder6 I don’t think you understood what I meant I was referring to something that’s not exactly KZbin friendly and it has to do with this 🍆 💦

[@bumfricker2487]

"There are no coincidences" -Master Oogway

[@BootyWonka]

im gonna assume you're Indian

[@rahuldagar6325]

@@BootyWonka no he is muslim more clearly this is expected from em cuz they dint get to see women in good dresses so check other women like that and make these sort of jokes

[@lordhughmungus]

"engaged ain't married" *immediate regret* I haven't laughed that hard in weeks, thanks Nat.

[@tikmark4234]

ikr

[@derekspencer9975]

The fact we never got to see Dylan Baker's Lizard is one of this trilogy's greatest tragedies.

[@LJMiho]

Please, do *NOT* forget about Bruce Campbell's Mysterio!!!

[@derekspencer9975]

@LJMiho that is one I really wanted, but was that ever more than a rumour?

[@atifahmed6036]

The most iconic live action comicbook movie ever produced, along with the dark knight This is an all time great for fans of the 90s animated show and comic book series The Amazing Spider-Man No. 50, "Spider-Man No More!" 🤟🏾🤟🏾🤪 controversial edit: If it wasn’t for Sam Raimi's Spider-Man, there would be no MCU

[@Zombiesnyder13]

RIP Laura Ziskin

[@atifahmed6036]

@@Zombiesnyder13 gone too young, she truely produced an iconic trilogy

[@The_Phantasm]

"The greatest thing marvel has produced"? Really? Not even close.

[@atifahmed6036]

I bet far from home is your favourite Spider-Man movie😂😭

[@The_Phantasm]

@@atifahmed6036 Oh God no. It's Into the Spider-Verse AKA the best Spider-Man movie. Why would you make an assumption like that?

[@pimp_floyd5024]

How was the hospital scene cheesy? It was literally such a thrilling moment, establishing the kind of violence and damage doc Oct can cause. Also Sam Raimi’s days of directing horror shines through this scene. It’s perfection. Don’t see it as cheesy whatsoever

[@chrismhp]

I suppose by 'cheesy' she's probably more noting that its very over-the-top or eccentric. And it certainly is. But that's Raimi's voice. His penchant for extremely stylized, zany idiosyncratic violence is unmistakable. He certainly has that 'energy' to his filmmaking.

[@Taz-yr6xd]

Another “reactor” with nothing interesting to say. Once she mentioned some guy saying it was “more cheesy” and started saying it immediately, I knew she’d say it every scene lmao

[@emberrose327]

@@Taz-yr6xd that's basically what happened. As soon as she heard from her bf perspective that it was only gonna get cheesy she immediately just started labeling everything cheesy lol

[@catfightparadise]

@@emberrose327 What do you expect from the newer generation? MCU = good, Raimi = bad. It's annoying.

[@dansiegel995]

Alfred Molina is one of those great underappreciated actors. I hope he was one of those guys that purposely stayed away from Hollywood and stuck to the stage.

[@damnedtolive9121]

When you first committed to watching this trilogy, part of me was worried that you may be critical of some of the more cheezy/comic book style nuances. The fact that you're appreciating those elements makes me smile. These movies were important to my child self because of their fantastical nature because it made spiderman feel more real for me. Great reaction Nat, stay golden 😏👍

[@reinerbraun2934]

Not a fan of the cheesy description. Calling the more light-hearted and exaggerated moments cheesy implies that it's bad and is a disservice to how well made and well written this movie is. You can say a lot of things about the hospital scene, but calling it cheesy hardly fits at all. Plus, the line where Harry says "he humiliated me by touching me" fits him perfectly. I don't see anything wrong with it. Cheesy is not the right word.

[@scottelement]

@@reinerbraun2934 it’s some premium blue cheese.

[@Aro7241]

@@reinerbraun2934 Maybe why you can't see cheese is cause you say things like ' a character saying cheesy lines, is just how they say things".

[@Drforrester31]

I love how crazy Sam Raimi went with this movie just in terms of the cinematography. Clearly Sony gave him more leeway after the success of the first and just ran with it

[@stephensporman8206]

He hired a new cinematographer ( Bill Pope ) that's why this movie and 3 look so damn good compared to the first.

[@christianwise637]

@@stephensporman8206 Yeah, getting the guy who shot The Matrix (and who'd later do films like Scott Pilgrim and Baby Driver) is a sure-fire way to make your film look amazing

[@darquidarqui]

Probably my favorite movie ever made. The film that made me think when I was 7, "I want to be a filmmaker". Everything still stands the test of time. The filmmaking, the drama, the action, the music, the relatable themes, the character development, even its directing style. Maybe the acting is cheesy, sure, but it totally works with the brilliant tone of this movie. The older I get, the more I love this movie and the more it emotionally punches. A masterclass in my mind!

[@Brainzzz123]

^

[@Wolfer1OOO]

I know this is kinda a random aside but, did you become a filmmaker? (or currently still wroking towards it even!).

[@darquidarqui]

@@Wolfer1OOO I wish! 😅 I'm just a KZbinr (I guess haha) with the hopes for reaching that goal someday, I'm working on it :)

[@viewerguy25]

Fun fact from one theater nerd to another: the play Mary Jane acted in, all the way down to the lines she said in it, is a real play called The Importance of Being Earnest. A play that's about a guy pretending to be a man named Earnest, living a double life to win over the woman who's his love interest. The play is basically a romcom before romcoms officially existed.

[@chrismhp]

For my money, this is the peak of what superhero films have to offer. Raimi is able to find this impossible balance between campy fun, dark and violent, and honest human drama. It doesn't try to be super depressing and gritty, yet still has moments of darkness and weight. It doesn't try to crack jokes in the middle of serious scenes but knows when and where to be funny. When it is serious, it doesn't feel like 'superhero film', it feels like a real dramatic film. When's the last time there was a quiet, subdued scene like where Peter confesses to Aunt May about Uncle Ben - in a superhero movie? The action scenes are riveting, and Danny Elfman's spiderman score remains some of the best music of his career. Most of all, this is what Spider-Man's story has always been about - the pain of a down-on-his-luck everyman struggling with money, work, school, and personal relationships all whilst trying to uphold his moral responsibility as a hero. No Spiderman film since has yet captured that story as compellingly and completely as this movie has. Oh, and Aunt May's hero speech, is probably the best monologue ever written in a superhero film. It's gonna be very hard to top what this film did.

[@miab-p6874]

I agree with this! Raimi knows when it's time to do drama, action, horror, and comedy in this film. It just works really well.

[@Zombiesnyder13]

They gave AVI ARAD a big thank you in the credits of NO WAY HOME But do you know who deserves a much bigger thank you? LAURA ZISKIN It was because of her and her husband (the screenwriter Alvin Sargent) that the original trilogy and TASM1 had depth And Arad just wanted to use the movies to sell toys

[@kaidms]

I appreciate your work kyle

[@jacobd1984]

Thank you for bringing this up. Edit: So I made a joke that inadvertently turned out to be in bad taste.

[@Saix640]

All my homies hate Avi Arad

[@Zombiesnyder13]

@@jacobd1984 thank you, but just so you know, Laura Ziskin died in 2011

[@jwm1444]

Yeah that happening at the end of NWH almost made me physically ill lol.

[@SkidmoreTx]

“The Power of Sun, in the palm of my hand”

[@Zombiesnyder13]

RIP Laura Ziskin and Alvin Sargent Spiderman was nothing without them

[@interlinkedwithincells6160]

This girl sees chessiness everywhere! Even in the scene where DocOc wakes up after the accident. This scene was an homage to Sam Raimi horror movies. Sorry I have disconnected at 15 min because she has a big misconception on chessiness.

[@3DJapan]

I don't know about cheesy. This is the best Spider-Man film.

[@ReneReacts]

Everytime Nat says it feels very early 2000s I'm not sure she realizes its Raimis sytle, not an age thing.

[@richardb6260]

Not sure what a film made in the early 2000s was supposed to feel like.

[@fRo0tLo0p]

I don't think you know what the word cheesy means. Cheesy is when something takes itself so seriously that it accidentally becomes a mocking parody of itself. It's not the same as camp. As a self-proclaimed theatre nerd, I figured you'd know that...

[@dorsk188]

I love how she's entirely right about Harry Osborn's arc... except that Spider-Man 3 is so bonkers and soap opera-y that it takes an out-of-nowhere handbrake turn into... an omelet montage.

[@krishnaalmeda3125]

Idk, spiderman 3 is actually my fav one because of new golbin, venom, and black suit spidey

[@jakegittes1864]

He’s losing his powers because he subconsciously doesn’t want them. It’s like a mental block. His life is a total disaster. He cannot balance his two lives.

[@greengoblin4life]

It’s amazing how well the cgi still looks better than a lot of movies today.

[@Zombiesnyder13]

That's because they used more practical effects

[@greengoblin4life]

@@Zombiesnyder13 yup

[@The_Phantasm]

@@Zombiesnyder13 You do know that it was Alfred Molina's request for the tentacles to be CGI in No Way Home right? The whole process was extremely difficult for him back in 2004 with all the puppeteers and choreography whereas in No Way Home he said he had a blast and without the extra weight he was able to be a lot more expressive with his body, something which as an actor is very important.

[@grasmere64]

Not sure why Nat's force-feeding this idea that the film is "cheesy" ... it's almost unanimously agreed by both fans and critics that this is one of the best super-hero movies of all time.

[@scottelement]

It’s cheesy

[@alexanderriley2979]

It's a bubble of one sub-culture (Sam Raimi films) into another (superhero genre) but viewed from outside and not with full realization of what's going on. I'm going to guess someone had not championed the viewing of Evil Dead I, Evil Dead II, Army of Darkness -- or even Phantasm II: Lost In Time for the Bruce Campbell alone, not including the epicly unepic cast dance scene during the credits. *sighs*

[@catfightparadise]

@@alexanderriley2979 Don't forget Darkman, that movie is brilliant!

[@alexanderriley2979]

@@catfightparadise Don't let her forget, then.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

People who call it cheesy don't understand what the term means. The definition of being cheesy is that the humour or sentimentality is corny or cringey and doesn't really work. None of that applies to Spider-Man 2.

[@FlippytheMasterofPie]

I would contend that the Sam Raimi films aren’t CHEESY, they’re EARNEST. Which comes across as cheesy when you’re used to the postmodern detachment and the dark grit and grime that we’re inundated with these days. So many comic book movies are trying to apologize for being comic book movies (coughcoughTheDarkKnightcoughcough). But earnestness isn’t necessarily bad! We’ve just become jaded.

[@lisamarieligreci-newton7804]

Isn't the play she's in 'The Importance of Being Earnest'? If so your comment is doubly apt :)

[@miab-p6874]

I agree with you!

[@abhiramyadagiri4649]

I wouldn’t say the Dark Knight itself falls under this, rather the films trying to emulate the Dark Knight’s gritty style and tone without actually replicating its writing, direction, cinematography, etc.

[@theGreenGoblin]

The tentacles whole reason for being is to make the reactor. So they’re single-minded on making it, regardless of the human fodder caught in the middle of it. That’s why it drives Otto’s obsession. You can even see them change from red to white when he regains control. Oh, also that train fight is the best superhero fight ever made. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@LeonardoKlotz]

PRACTICAL EFFECTS BEFORE CGI That's my motto

[@The_Phantasm]

You do know that it was Alfred Molina's request for the tentacles to be CGI in No Way Home right? The whole process was extremely difficult for him back in 2004 with all the puppeteers and choreography whereas in No Way Home he said he had a blast and without the extra weight he was able to be a lot more expressive with his body, something which as an actor is very important.

[@xxminecrafthype443]

@@The_Phantasm And they still looked fantastic. CGI if done correctly can be a perfect replacement for CGI. In plenty of cases I think CGI can actually be utilized better. Now when it’s used too much, then there’s often a problem.

[@The_Phantasm]

@@xxminecrafthype443 My point exactly. Thank you. I mean imagine if Thanos was just Josh Brolin with makeup and prosthetics. It would take you out of the movie.

[@AqwDragulum]

Guy named Motto Moctavius winds up with 8 limbs. What are the odds?

[@mohammedashian8094]

@@xxminecrafthype443 that’s what I always say both if used properly can work beautifully together but if one was overdone then it’s a problem

[@tmac731]

You’re the first person I’ve heard call this movie cheesy

[@mohamedharris4325]

dude this is one of the great spider man movie of all time and she is just mocking at it soo much which irritates a lot. i don't know why people expecting logical things in a superhero movie. first of all superhero is an imagination that thing itself not a logical but expects logics in it. one of the greatest character arch for spiderman in this movie and no movie(spiderman) had done it

[@danishprince2760]

She loves the movie and she clearly says that just because it's cheesy doesn't mean it's bad. She had so much fun with this one

[@Nonexistent097]

God you people can’t accept any other opinions about this movie. You expect everyone to blindly say “Spider-Man 2, perfect movie” It’s not, and people can feel other ways about this very mid tier movie. And what’s worse, you act like criticism is a direct jab at you for some reason. It’s not

[@ThomasKnip]

That movie is as cheesy as any superhero movie should be. Lots of melodrama, fears and tears and really meaningful one-liners. 😄

[@peterschmidt4348]

Please watch "Galaxy Quest"!

[@Curseco]

Stop mocking the movie, jesus christ!

[@rodrigocs1385]

This is the best Spiderman live-action movie ever made

[@dkroy9978]

@@The_Phantasm Dude not even close

[@Phillysavage]

@@The_Phantasm Jesus Christ your right no need to ruin the moment

[@Onaterdem]

@@The_Phantasm "I think x is objectively better" is an objectively self-contradicting sentence. That said, I do think MCU>>Raimi, but, I can see why people love the Raimi films

[@theodorsteenberg8757]

Nah the first one is better and i Think No Way Home but its really close

[@The_Phantasm]

@CYB3R2K30 Dude, as good as this movie is, it's dated and don't act like it's perfect and doesn't have any plot holes as well. Not to mention the relationship with Kirsten Dunst's Mary Jane who is one of the worst love interests in any comic book movie.

[@tashrif46]

14:03 how is it cheesy? That was classic horror Sam Raimi

[@corryjamieson3909]

She can be a bit of an Idiot from time to time

[@ThetrueHeero]

Still one the best movies ever created

[@zpzpzpznews3693]

Yes kzbin.info/www/bejne/aaiUaoZ3oZaCeLM May i ask what movie of the video opinion

[@The_Phantasm]

Superhero movies yes. Movies in general, not remotely.

[@biguy617]

The dark Knight of Spider-Man movies

[@The_Phantasm]

@@biguy617 It exceeds the first one, but it's not the best Spider-Man movie. That title belongs to Into the Spider-Verse.

[@biguy617]

@@The_Phantasm no that is animated movie. I love Spider-verse but I am talking about the live action movies.

[@garrettwhite5943]

"I have not seen this film!" You WHAT?! Oh God SM2 was my inspiration to start writing as a kid. The camp, the heart, the action... It's all fantabulous.

[@Joao-zl8in]

One of greatest superhero Ever, my favorite one as a kid. This and dark Knight are Easily top 10. Doc ock bodied with his Epic performance. This movie is a legenda.

[@The_Phantasm]

The general consensus is that The Dark Knight is number 1, however Spider-Man 2 isn't quite that high. Logan, Into the Spider-Verse, Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame all exceed it.

[@dkroy9978]

@@The_Phantasm no.

[@The_Phantasm]

@@dkroy9978 Could you elaborate?

[@Joao-zl8in]

@@The_Phantasm NO PUNK, THEY DONT EXCEED ANYTHING. BEAT IT

[@Zerostarxx93]

"Engaged ain't married." So....are you saying there's a chance, Nat? >.>

[@Zombiesnyder13]

LAURA ZISKIN was the only one capable to save this movie from AVI ARAD After she died in 2011, during the production of TASM1, there was nobody else to stop Arad from ruining everything May she rest in peace

[@The_Phantasm]

Thankfully Kevin Feige swooped in with Tom Holland to save the day after TASM 2.

[@GOLDY452]

9:56 a women moment guys. Marie janes play is more important than catching criminals

[@TheParagade]

The "Go get em, Tiger" is such a fantastic pay-off for the film and their relationship

[@martinbraun1211]

Please watch STAR TREK. 🖖

[@santiagomunez3633]

Definitely one the best super hero movies of all time.. A pioneer if you want.. Ahead of his time.. I actually prefer this "cheesy" tone than a lot of the mcu "humorous" ones

[@CrazeeAdam]

I honestly didn't feel like this one is that "cheesy" tbh. Less than the first. Felt like this was much more serious and like classic super hero movie feel

[@anouar3194]

Yeah it was unnecessary from her to call this movie cheesy so many times, it ruined the reaction for me a little bit.

[@richardb6260]

@@anouar3194 Same

[@christophplank8972]

Why are you laughing at misfortune so much lol "As long as...30 minutes..."-- "well ofc he can't get in" -- after saving 20 people: "serves you right, Peter!"

[@Sky-hb5cn]

Tobey is the best spider man

[@The_Phantasm]

I disagree. Tom Holland is the best Spider-Man. Tobey was a good Peter Parker, but whenever the mask was on and he was Spider-Man his performance didn't really capture the mannerisms or the quipy nature that where present in the comics.

[@Sky-hb5cn]

@@The_Phantasm Umm yh but in my opinion it is Tobey the best Peter Parker and Spider-Man Tom is great but I think Tobey is much better this is my opinion yeah 😇

[@The_Phantasm]

@@Sky-hb5cn I respect your opinion, but can you tell me any meorable quips that Tobey has said other than the gay joke in Spider-Man 1? Look Tobey was a great Peter Parker, but his Spider-M an was nothing like the character in the comics ad Andre Garfield was a perfect Spider-Man, but his Peter Parker wasn't quite right, whereas Tom Holland id great at being both.

[@queenc9570]

I think you weren’t really cutting peter some slack in this… not everything is about MJ. “serves you right peter” yeah, he missed her play, but he was out there saving people’s lives. the point of this movie was to show how peter can’t keep up with his personal life by being spider-man and that despite having such power, he STILL is human and makes mistakes.

[@catfightparadise]

It takes critical thinking skills to have to understand this (apparently), to which this "reactor" clearly lacks.

[@NoGunPowder.]

Savage😂

[@SpartanShepard]

So excited to watch along! My personal favorite superhero film ever. "Punch me, I bleed" is going on my tombstone. Joking aside, the line "Sometimes to do what's right, we have to be steady" is such a trigger for me to instantly start crying. It speaks so much to me and that's why I love these cheesy movies, they speak to me on a personal level.

[@bassmunk]

I recently re-watched this trilogy and I just realized how long the scenes with aunt May are. They're not short at all, it's a full blown conversation each time, and it's great. They really make the move better! I'm so glad they took the time to have something just...play out as it normally would. It's what they did with the trilogy on a whole now that I think about it, the pacing is what sets it apart from newer action movies, including the MCU.

[@SpartanShepard]

@@bassmunk the quiet, long conversations with May are gems. When I think of the trilogy, I don't think of the action, I think of the moments that are heartfelt, and most importantly human. May's scene in 3, "You start with the hardest part... You forgive yourself" hits way too close to home for me, and is a standout moment in all of comic book movie history. The movie itself is a little messy, but it has fantastic moments

[@The_Phantasm]

One of the few critisisms about this movie is the fact that he loses he's powers because of his emotions which always took me a little out of the movie. Another issue with the movie is that the arms want to rebuilt the machine. I mean why would they want to do that? They're sentient objects, it doesn't make any sense. Also another problem is Kirsten Dunst as Mary Jane. Out of all the love interests in all Spider-Man movies, she is easily the worst one. I never liked her interpertation of the character nor did I like the fact that every film in the trilogy had to end with her having to be rescued.

[@SpartanShepard]

@@The_Phantasm I can understand the arms making Ock to make the machine criticism, but I believe the movie explained the reason for Peter losing his powers with the line Otto said to Peter, "If you keep something as complicated as love stored up inside, it can make you sick." It wasn't until Pete was able to let go of MJ and let her be with someone else that his powers finally returned. And I can also understand the MJ criticism, but in this movie if you look at from her perspective, her "best friend" keeps flaking and is turning out as a worst friend. Plus she doesn't have to wait for him, it's her right as a person. Her being captured only became an issue for me in 3, and I had heard Sam Raimi didn't want to make her the damsel again, but was told he had too.

[@The_Phantasm]

@@SpartanShepard Honestly, him losing his powers feels too much like screenwriter trickery and even though the movie has a man with the powers of a spider fighting a guy with mechanical tentacles, that particular detail is a bit too big of a leap. As for MJ, her having to be rescued again doesn't change the fact that the way Kirsten plays her comes off as irritating.

[@orangkulithitam7915]

Fun fact: there is no cgi in the train scene, Tobey actually stop the train without special effects

[@trentlane6971]

Sorry NWH, but this always be THE Best Spiderman Movie.

[@The_Phantasm]

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! That title rightfully belongs to Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse and it's not even close.

[@trentlane6971]

@@The_Phantasm i'm talking about live action movies.

[@Monty0-0]

@@The_Phantasm If you think that NWH is objectively better, you are objectively wrong.

[@The_Phantasm]

@@Monty0-0 But Spider-Verse is better thhan both.

[@Monty0-0]

@@The_Phantasm I personally prefer Spider-man 2 over Into The Spider-verse. But Spider-verse is the best Spider-man movie ever with Spider-man 2 and one of the best superheroe movie ever made. NWH is like garbage in front of this two movies.

[@tonycampbell4982]

She calls classic good script writting a cheese fest. Im guessing Natalie enjoys Captain Marvel.

[@Alexanderthegreat159]

Really? Someone screaming before their death is cheesy? 😅 Kind of worried about you nat

[@man_without_fear2349]

Its the way its filmed

[@catfightparadise]

How are these movies "cheesy"? Better acting and storytelling than that crap MCU B.S. Disney pulled out their asses. lol

[@michellepeters7066]

Please watch "ONLY THE LONELY" from 1991. It's with John Candy ♥️

[@rohanchooramun7288]

That funny "My back" scene. Always remember this particular scene😂.

[@MajikMan1977]

As close to perfect a comic book film can be is this one. That it actually went into the mental health state of Peter, the stress, the guilt, feeling totally alone and with the weight of HIS world on him , was something special and gives it the emotional depth that these kind of films often ignore. I love it and the original so much.

[@BrandonWestfall]

"It's nice that no one's taking a photo." This was the early 2000s otherwise they would have let his ass fall to his death then take a photo.

[@capsey_]

Natalie: "Do I have to wait another movie to see you together?" Me: "About that..."

[@JohnSmith-wh2ob]

That horror scene was cheesy? I wouldn’t say that it has moments of genuine terror

[@tbirdguy1]

The BACKPEDAL! That had me rolling.

[@FernandoMendoza-dw8nz]

9:35 Nat telling Spiderman to throw away moral obligation. 18:55 Nat seeing the consequences of Spiderman throw away moral obligation.

[@AnotherScribbler]

The novelization, IIRC, has the arms sorta “thinking” simple thoughts at Doc Ock throughout, and when Otto goes unconscious at the end it fades out on them saying, “Father? Father?” again and again as they sink.

[@JasonZakrajsek]

Also, that shot of Doc Ock sinking at the end is entirely CG. It looks pretty damn good for 2004.

[@nickmorgan1690]

"Man she has to be wet in every movie.." Seriously, are we not doing phrasing anymore?

[@emilyzahora3330]

I love your reactions, but I can’t stand by this cruel criticism of Peter. He’s so relatable. A broke college student who just happens to have super powers and is trying to do the right thing, which almost never works out for him. And he can’t just not save people because he has things he’s rather do. Otherwise he wouldn’t be our friendly neighborhood Spider-Man.

[@jabecker21]

SPOILERS: The first half of this movie is good, on par with the first one. The second half of this movie is next-level amazing. The only thing that would've made the second half better is if they actually kissed in the coffee shop and you see a look on her face where she knows he's Spider-Man and you see a look on his face that his spider-sense is going crazy. Then he saves her from the car crashing through the window. They don't get to talk about it but she knows. Then when Doc Ock tells her later that Spider-Man is dead there's way more weight to it. That would've been way better than her just seeing him without his mask at the end and the kiss that they built up over two movies would've actually meant something.

[@The_Phantasm]

One of the few critisisms about this movie is the fact that he loses he's powers because of his emotions which always took me a little out of the movie. Another issue with the movie is that the arms want to rebuilt the machine. I mean why would they want to do that? They're sentient objects, it doesn't make any sense. Also another problem is Kirsten Dunst as Mary Jane. Out of all the love interests in all Spider-Man movies, she is easily the worst one. I never liked her interpertation of the character nor did I like the fact that every film in the trilogy had to end with her having to be rescued.

[@jabecker21]

@@The_Phantasm Him losing his powers is straight out of the comic so it didn’t take me out of the movie as much as just remind me of the comic. I never thought about the motivation for Doc’s arms so I guess it never bothered me. MJ being saved each movie, I mean you’re talking about every superhero movie ever. It’s a rare superhero where if the hero has a girlfriend she isn’t being saved, or at least with him, during the final fight. My biggest issue with this movie is Aunt May being thrown around and hanging on during the bank fight. There’s no way she’s be able to do that.

[@The_Phantasm]

@@jabecker21 The getting reescued part was the writter's fault but her coming off as whiny and annoying is her performance's fault.

[@christophermedina4849]

Spider-Man 2 is, to most Spidey fans the best of the Raimi Trilogy. Just wanna point something out: MY BACK🥴 Will you react to the Amazing Spider-Man films too? Or have you seen those already?

[@DaDunge]

9:13 He's likable because he's Alfred Freaking Molina.

[@AbrahamHerrera1589]

You calling this movie cheese is horrible. Marvel movies ARE actually cheese. But this one is special, not cheese

[@queenannsrevenge100]

The sickness storyline and the giving up being Spider-Man were straight from a couple of issues of the comic books - down to the cheesy “Spider-Man… no more” and the shot of the suit in a trash can which is almost a recreation of one of the comic book panels. 20 years ago, Geek Me loved every second of it. In the comic, however, I believe he actually had the flu. 😀 Edit - correction - two separate stories - in one he had a psychosomatic loss of powers due to stress, and the quitting spider-man was a separate story. In that one he even stole the costume back from Jameson the same way as the movie .

[@secondghost]

Aunt May knows Peter is Spider-man. She doesn't say it but she makes a subtle hint about it.

[@BloodSportA2]

Wish we had more of these comic book movies that allowed themselves to be shamelessly cheesy in a self-aware way. I swear, a lot of them are *still* trying to chase after the "Nolan effect" 20+ years later. Probably part of the reason a modern Superman seems so hard to properly pull off.