Spider-Man vs Paul - Why Are Fans So Mad?

[@thebleachbartender1312]

Honestly I think we're through the thick of it with Paul. The initial shock is over. Everybody knows him, everybody hates him, Editorial got the reaction they wanted and the jokes are mostly over. Now with the positive receptions to the "adult" Peter with Ultimate and Spiderverse I'm now sure Marvel is aware of that there is an audience that wants to see MJ and Peter grow up with a much more stable mellow tone rather than the constant up and down that is Spider man is constantly forced to go through.

[@harlannguyen4048]

Given how recently the editors made it very clear that they have zero intention of bringing Peter and MJ back together, I doubt they learned a damned thing.

[@dearickangelonej.legaspi6686]

As long as Ultimate stays as a side run we are.... Pretty safe? We can expect some issues with the relationship later on(as is usual in stories) but I don't think they will go the same route as the Amazing run because of how people hated it so much that they cheered for the "One Bad Day" event they wrote for spiderman

[@thedukeofchutney468]

If there is one thing I know about marvel editorial it is this: They. NEVER. Learn.

[@verdurite]

the ultimate comic, spiderverse, the video games. There are so many versions of peter that is with mj and also happy, and those media sell insanely well. But it still doesn't change the comics because the editors want you to be mad, it's the only way they get attention on the 616 comics anymore

[@alexlennen]

@@thedukeofchutney468 yeah you're right that editorial probably won't take the right lessons from it. I was gonna include the sales figures for Ultimate at the end of the video, saying "look guys, maybe they'll finally learn now that Ultimate has replaced Amazing as the most popular series!" But given the last 15 years it's clear that they're not motivated by sales. Like I said the best solution is just to stop caring about the main series

[@majinmissingno4591]

"GET BACK HERE PAUUUUUL-!" "PAUUUUUUL-!" "YOU CAN'T ESCAPE ME-!" "I'LL CHASE YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE EAAAARTH-!"

[@SolidSpiderLink]

😂😂😂 I understood that reference 👍

[@stone6242]

What reference is that from?

[@PeptoAbismol]

@@stone6242 spider-man

[@caramelcandys]

@@stone6242spiderman the animated series where peter in the black suit is chasing after shocker and Christopher Daniel Barnes drops the most aggressive line for a spiderman cartoon

[@whodistoodis]

Oh golly, that brings me back. Good stuff, that was.

[@dhayris160]

Funny that in Spiderverse, Peter B. Parker was the older, jaded Spider-Man. His relationship with MJ failed, his Aunt May dies and he has no one important in his life when we meet him. After meeting Miles, he goes home, relindles his marriage, has a daughter, and guess what? EVERYONE loves that.

[@petrenicolae3282]

Because he's the 1 in one million.If Peter having a happy life was the norm,then people wouldn't be as happy about it

[@notmariolevi2863]

​@petrenicolae3282 it also helps that he's written damn near perfectly and is genuinely likeable.

[@petrenicolae3282]

@@notmariolevi2863 that too.

[@allanorme2093]

Not to mention the new Ultimate Spiderman

[@breawycker]

Please give Mayday a new series, Marvel

[@l_rob420]

unironically one of the funniest things in marvel history is being so bad at your job that millions cheer for the death of children💀

[@Erpdc-y6w]

Goblins getting out of control they need to touch some water😂

[@pabloiriqui6128]

I saved some of those tweets. So god damn funny “Yeah! F%CK THEM KIDS WOOOOOO-“

[@rudyisabot]

Erhm they’re not real children in case you didn’t notice☝️🤓

[@Erpdc-y6w]

@@rudyisabot you okay with a lolicon playing with a loli since loli is not real but base on little kids🤨

[@rudyisabot]

@@Erpdc-y6w It was satire. But yeah I don’t see the appeal to lolicon. Sounds like an excuse for fantasizing about children. Especially when people bring up “women can have petite bodies, ever heard of that?” It’s so stupid I swear. Just talk about women that are petite if that’s the case.

[@ViniciusFigueiredo19]

Maybe I dont want a character to be relatable. Maybe I just want a story about Spider Man accomplishing things, defeating villains and achieving happiness like, you know, 90% of his media outside of the comics

[@simonhailom2477]

I agree brother

[@NYCTOSEE]

I know, right?! It’s almost like this is a… fantasy of some sort?! This stupid fucking mentality is one of the main reasons I can’t get into comics. Peter & Mary Jane are as iconic as Superman & Lois Lane. This bullshit mentality that ‘manly man comic readers don’t wanna read about romance’ truly pisses me off. It feels a lot like corporate just sort of boils it down to “too many women interested?! Cancel it!” DC did the same thing with the OG Teen Titans cartoon because “it was too popular with girls and girls don’t buy merch” ??? I feel like a lot of the sexism in the comic book industry has to do with the reason Paul is so prominent (especially since he’s literally a fucking Gary Stu) since “Romance is a women’s thing guys don’t like that!!” Or “guys like seeing female superheroes in sexy, unpractical outfits, don’t listen to those feminists!!” I feel like even if corporate doesn’t say it, Peter & MJ being separated wasn’t just about relatability, but also because it was a couple women liked.

[@BaldGuyElectric20245]

@@simonhailom2477Totally. Give Spider-Man a Naruto esque ending. Let him actually grow as a person. Spider-Man comics as far back as the 80s did a better job with depicting an adult Spider-Man. Now he’s not much different from his teenage counterpart.

[@michaelzaiser8088]

On that note, I am willing to argue that Spider Man being in constant misery actually makes him less relatable. I for one can't relate with a character that is not allowed the briefest moment of happiness and that the universe seems to screw over at every turn. Our lives our not endless streams of failure and suffering. We have wins, we have triumphs, we have victories under our belts. Peter being made into a failure is not relatable, it is an insult to people who want to see him succussed. But that's just my two cents. .

[@IvanDubsK7]

Modern Spider-Man fans to Marvel are like: “I come before you today, humbled and humiliated, to ask you for one thing... I want you to kill Paul.”

[@archivist_13]

I have to give a sincere apology to that version of Eddie, I finally understand the sheer fucking rage that drove him to pray for someone's death lol

[@sauce2514]

@@archivist_13 Same. I feel exactly the same.

[@ASlickNamedPimpback]

Better Call Paul! (to die)

[@IBigPrivateDickChinchillaI]

Real

[@KatamuroTheFirst]

the only thing anyone can do to stop paul and get marvel to do something else is to stop buying the mainline comic. just stop.

[@reportedbooch697]

The funniest part of the whole Paul situation is watching Marvel fans find both background characters who look like him and other characters named Paul in older Spider-Man books or even other marvel books. He’s always been there. Watching. Planning. A fucking multiverse constant.

[@BlokHeadAnim]

Doctor Who level retroactive continuity tbh

[@fcomolineiro7596]

One piece level of foreshadowing

[@MatthewPrower]

ngl i actually wanna see some examples

[@itriedtochangemynamebutitd5019]

​@@fcomolineiro7596Attack On Titan level foreshadowing

[@christiangutierrez2036]

@@fcomolineiro7596 "Will of D." "The Name of the Doctor." The Doctor's name is Will!

[@DTheAustralian]

Paul is basically the living representation of the fact that Peter is never allowed to be happy. If his personal life is miserable, how can any other facet of his life be anything but?

[@drew1429]

Not only that he is also serving as this weird embodiment of this weird idea editorial is forcing of "Look MJ can be happy without Peter, her life doesn't need to revolve around him" and then fans go "Okay fine yes Peter and MJ can be happy without eachoth-" "NO, that is not what we said. We said MJ can be happy without Peter. Peter is constantly miserable and so in love with MJ still that he might try to move on and might even say he is moving on and it is getting easier. But he isn't and we will keep reinforcing this is the worst thing that could have ever happened to him, no matter how he tries to hide it" So not only do they not want MJ and Peter together. Which that happens in comics all the time, a once iconic couple breaks up and never gets back together and find happiness with other people, but they also want to reinforce Peter can never get over it to find happiness with one of his other Love Interests.

[@Sf_solarflare]

screw that peter parker needs a break

[@celestialsoldier622]

Marvel writers life suck so they make Peter's life suck, that's all there is too it.

[@فهدالدوسري-ح6ض]

Hmm.. Peter getting married? No! No! Kids won't relate! Have him sell his unborn daughter's soul to Mephisto, go back in time, and experience an insane amount of agony of getting screwed over and over, and over again. Kids will definitely relate to that guy!

[@mateushenriquepinheiro3197]

@@DTheAustralian at this point it would be more relatable for Peter to just... Abandon his life as Peter Parker and become Spiderman full time, like everything he suffers so much from his civilian life because of the Marvel editorial that physically getting beating up feels like the less painful thing to watch. I'm not saying this would be the best direction for the character, but if Marvel is hellbent on making Peter's love life miserable, then maybe he should just give up on it. Like if I was Spiderman, I would probably be too depressed about my life to go out fighting crime or I would straight up release all my pent-up aggression on my villains (Tombstone should be in a hospital bed, like Zeb Wells writes him to be such a loser that he struggles in every fight despite the fact he is holding back, if he got more serious I guarantee Tombstone wouldn't be able to land a hand on Spidey)

[@wdcain1]

I don't even see 616 Spidey as a character now. He's just content. His owners and editors won't ever let him leave his childhood behind. I'm sticking with Ultimate Spider-Man from now on.

[@kingbash6466]

Paul is definitely a cut above the rest because he somehow found a way to Garner more hate from Spider-Man fans than an literal demon who erased decades of character growth and chemistry between Peter and MJ.

[@desertplanet3253]

mephisto is the devil. it's expected, makes it a lot harder to hate the character with the same vitriol, since that's just what he does. Paul, however, is a non-character for most of the run, whose sole reason for existing as a character is to keep peter down. He's not the devil, he's just one really fucking annoying piece of dead weight dragging peter and the comic down

[@ale_islost]

Amazingly put. While Mephisto's role serves as a plot device, his existence is very loosely justified, the act he does makes sense under the logic of the universe, in the case of Paul its like you just made your room shining clean and there's a fly fucking around, it doesn't make sense and its there when it shouldn't be

[@BenM6]

I find it so freaking funny that mephisto interacted with wayep before wayep appeared again in this run. The route to retcon this as mephisto trying to manipulate everyone and ruin the relationship again is so freaking easy they could fix it in 1 issue

[@peterwhite6415]

@@desertplanet3253 Pretty much, at least the goddamn Devil made a trade with Parker: His aunt get sto live longer (cause she was dieing of a disease) but his marriage and relationship with MJ gets reseted. The trade is pretty rough but at least Peter kept most of the knowledge and could try to rebuild it again (as anoying as it was). Paul just come out of nowhere like a flying turd yeeted by the writers.

[@toyohimeyeswatatsuki6917]

At least Mephisto give peter a choice on should He erased his child and marriage to save his aunt or let her die Paul doesn't give him any choice, He just show up and take everything that peter want

[@BadTakeRisan]

I honestly think the fact that his name is Paul makes it 20% worse

[@nothingwrong2293]

It's better because you can choose to believe that it's all an elaborate setup for a "Hey Paul!" joke

[@SonicLegends]

lol, reminds me of the first show I watched as a kid that made a play at the name called Recess which had the popular/rich girls the Ashleys and how this funny line from one of them saying how they'd have to then date boys with names like Paul or Joe which the very thought disgusted them all.

[@lylelylecrocodile2538]

I still haven't forgotten Paul from third grade I hate you Paul

[@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527]

“Robbing Peter to pay Paul.”

[@bluechezzwithsocks9117]

@@SonicLegendsrecess goated ong

[@chemems135]

You know you fucked up as a writer when during a moment that is meant to show how far Pete has fallen, resorting to killing someone while under the influence of Norman's sins, your readers are cheering him on.

[@archivist_13]

It was so funny seeing people go "can we let him have this?" online, cause it's what I was thinking too

[@talldrinkofmarmalade7281]

And laughing at the evaporation of his kids

[@Valkyrie77]

Yeah, I have seen so much fan art of Peter unalive Paul is a proof of that.

[@superjlk_9538]

The writers wrote that to make fun of the fans who hated Paul but it only fueled them even more

[@pabloiriqui6128]

“YEEES PETER K1LL HIM”

[@lordromanyx]

Ultimate Spider-Man proves that the editors know EXACTLY what the fans want but are so stubborn about making it canon that they have to make an entirely new universe and then are like "hey look, we gave you the family Spider-Man you wanted. Aren't you happy now?"

[@Pencilman246]

I think the existence of Ultimate both proves that they know, and that they can’t go back now. What’s unique about Ultimate Peter if you give him the same life as 616 Peter? Uncle Ben being alive?

[@PokeBattlerJaze]

Editors: “We can’t let Peter be happy because it would upset the readers. Literally everyone: “We want him to be happy please.”

[@EvilRyuGuy]

He should have some struggles in his life, but the point is that "being relatable" is not turning his life into a torture chamber and humilliating him every chance you get. Marvel thinking that more suffering is better don't understand their own character.

[@PokeBattlerJaze]

@@EvilRyuGuy We said the same thing.

[@sarov7658]

He is too white to be happy

[@Robacus]

Seriously!!!

[@freman007]

Yes. All of this.

[@blackphoenix77]

Paul isn't a character: he's a plot device. He only exists to keep Peter and MJ apart.

[@micahwilliams2384]

And they're trying too little too late to develop him past that with his list

[@Gamfluent]

He exist to make Peter a cuck

[@CaptainSauce]

I'm begging people to stop buying ASM. Every editorial kick in the pants sent our way is justified by sales numbers. Stop reinforcing their actions.

[@WHLSHRK]

😲

[@sars910]

Hey Cap. Weird seeing you here. How's it hanging?

[@thenexus8384]

How are you holding up, Captain?

[@yagamifire7861]

Way ahead of you

[@joshuaconnall4237]

Holy shit, is that the saucer himself? Hope you’re doing good man

[@caseyhughes5313]

Paul: I don't believe in gods. The Many MANY Gods That Exist In The Marvelvers: Excuse you??

[@PolarPhantom]

Thor: I'm literally standing here.

[@jasonrobinson401]

His own father: son, I, and Tezcatlipoca, are both dissapoint.

[@Shrimpfriedpee]

I saw this on Reddit, but I agree: Paul is the narrative foil to Peter nobody wanted. Where Peter sacrificed of himself to make New York a better place, Paul endangered others for his own wants, as shown when he shoved Peter through the portal, trapping MJ in another dimension with him for "years". Where Peter's self-sufficient, Paul is highly dependent. Where Pete stands up for what he knows is right, Paul takes the high horse of not fighting his own battles. Where Peter risks his life to protect people and gets villainized for it, Paul helped commit the most heinous crimes against humanity and gets validated for it. Paul being "just a guy" isn't enough. Paul being "the villain the entire time" isn't enough. If this run doesn't take the time and effort to actively rebuke Paul and restore some semblance of Peter's dignity and status among his fellow heroes, then this run will have amounted to nothing but a masturbatory attempt to inflict another layer of misery porn on a character that never deserved this mistreatment.

[@CS08129]

I'm hoping they reveal either Paul put a mind control device in the bracelet he gave MJ for her powers and ends up getting dogged on physically and verbally for all his crap; Jackpot is a clone of MJ Paul made cuz the real one died in his world and he tried replacing her out of guilt; Or Mephisto kidnapped MJ and replaced her with a fake to try and drive her and Peter apart for good. Either way this could make way to redeem MJ and then Marvel can finally try growing a brain and make a story that undoes One More Day. With new stories having Peter finally having the life he was meant to have. Maybe have reality get warped to make it so that Mayday has been alive for about a decade now and can go on adventures as a young Spider-Girl being trained by her daddy, and Peter gets back his Other enhancments and and stable job that allows him to build better tech and be a greater version of Spider-Man

[@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527]

@@CS08129 my long standing fan theory is that the baby they had in the 90’s is still alive in a pocket dimension

[@rovaughncampbell3062]

​@@CS08129not gonna happen bro

[@sev1120]

​@@CS08129for the third one, I can see Mephisto wanting to punish Paul because even though he's literal Satan, even HE has standards

[@charlesman8722]

So we agree Venom needs to eat Paul

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

That moment Peter's former enemy who may or may not have eaten brains is now off, being a universal hero, offered Avengers status multiple times, with a son, is allowed to progress, and even has an ending to his story that's a future version of himself. Not bad, Brock.

[@technounionrepresentative4274]

Its insane how Peter's biggest and 2nd biggest villains are doing great now

[@Subpar1O1]

I can't not find it hilarious that the asshole who tormented Peter, the one whose villain origin was praying in a church and getting stuck to an alien, had one of the happiest characters right now and is literally symbiote jesus. I'm abbreviating it a bit but Eddie was genuinely very well written during this time and him not being around as much is a nice change to the status quo, MARVEL

[@dliatsos1]

@@Subpar1O1 I agree, is funny and honestly just sad that Eddie Brock of all people, who mind you was praying at that church before intending to eat some lead in a literal sense is having a better state of mind and life compared to Peter Parker. I hate that they don't let Peter be able to have some sort of happiness as Eddie is having. Ideally though Anne would also be alive and well to be with Eddie and Dylan as well, but I can work with what we have currently for the Brock's, hopefully this whole Venom War thing ends on a decent note for Eddie and Dylan, sucks that Peter and the symbiote aren't going to stay together after it. I figure it'd be a good change, hell I figure the symbiote would even try to motivate Peter to fix his life around and maybe get back with MJ... And that's also probably one of the reasons Marvel Editorial wouldn't bother keeping the symbiote around in Peter's life after this event finishes in whatever way it does...

[@YouthRightsRadical]

@@dliatsos1 Agreed. It's pretty obvious that the reason Peter can't stay with the symbiote is because that would mean that there would always be someone in Peter's corner who had his back.

[@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868]

isn't meridius hella evil? just because he's a future version of Eddie doesn't mean he's a positive ending for the character

[@JCShadow0202]

It’s insane that a decade after One More Day, we’ve yet to recover

[@Quinn-kr2cp]

>tfw one more day was 17 years ago

[@0uttaS1TE]

One More Day and its consequences have been a disaster for Spider-mankind

[@nont18411]

“We’ve yet to recover” More like Marvel actively choose NOT to recover

[@bearerofbadnews1375]

@@JCShadow0202 I don’t think it will ever recover that wound will most likely continue to fester with the occasional rubbing of salt into the wound making it worse.

[@timmitytom]

​@@bearerofbadnews1375 gangrenous and requiring amputation

[@arcanaido6415]

The guy that created Paul was into NTR, no one can change my mind on that one.

[@rabbot7804]

*If Paul has a million enemies, I am one of them.* *If Paul has only one enemy, I am that one.* *If Paul has no enemies, it means I am no longer alive.* *If I do not hate Paul, that means he is finally dead.*

[@conradgarrod117]

This mantra needs to be immortalized

[@YlisseanShepherd]

damn, thats a poetic expression of showing your sheer distain. We need a plaque of this.

[@SolidSpiderLink]

I have a display case of different media artworks of Spider-Man....I am now considering this Beautiful poem to be transcribed on paper so that I may include it and cherish it as part of my collection. I shall call it... "An ode to MJ"❤

[@tmoney1036]

You're wrong on that last part. If you don't hate Paul, that just means that he never existed to begin with.

[@en-voguepugh3472]

this sounds like the chant to a reality marble whos gimmic and powerset is fuck over this one guy named paul.

[@Tiyong55]

"Hey Paul!" *rushes to him with an axe*

[@PedroParkerProductions]

Lmfao I got that reference 😂

[@kalainreinard8421]

I understood that reference.

[@indigosteel5702]

"You ever listen to Huey Lewis and The News, Paul?"

[@emanuelstornello8009]

*''try stealing my wife now you stupid f-ing b-stard!!!''*

[@forkempty]

Let's see Paul Rabin's card...

[@alanthieris4447]

We live in a world where Ash Ketchum won a pokemon League and rode off into the sunset. Maybe someday we could see Peter Parker earn his happy ending too.

[@LocksAndChains]

I’m still in denial about Ash. It took my entire lifetime, basically.

[@rennytheevilest-8333]

I mean, it truly showed that to beat the best , you don’t need strategy or type advantages, just a level 100 starter is enough

[@ryszakowy]

he finally became the champion it only took him the artstyle

[@DemonicRemption]

@alanthieris4447 That'll never happen because these chuckle-heads who apparently never really experienced life, misery=relatability.

[@caddy4273]

it was wonderful, it was unbelievable, 20 years waiting and he ACTUALLY did it. And it wasn't retconned. It was incredible!

[@tonywilliams6294]

The biggest problem with Paul, beyond the obvious, is the fact he is an accomplice of his murderous father, and it was completely ignored.

[@crimsoneclipse0618]

I think it's just that Paul is the straw that broke the camel's bsck after years of Marvel editorial just fucking shitting on the Spider-man fanbase with their insistence of Spider-man not being able to have a good and happy life.

[@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868]

I mean you act like fans didn't agree with that. in like 2020, right before the spider-man online discourse was 'why can't editorial just let spider-man be happy' the spider-man online discourse was 'spider-man stories only work when he's unhappy'. I mean, that was kinda the moral of Across the Spider-Verse, the thing that makes a spider, never giving up, and so the only way to truly test that and put spider-man in a compelling story is to put him through the wringer

[@Swangbang]

@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 Absolutely true but the problem is Paul ends the mj/peter drama that has been the basis of Peter’s entire love life and in a way where our main character is basically cucked, it’s not even Peter being sad it’s an insult to his entire history with mj

[@crimsoneclipse0618]

@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 bro what? The moral of Across the Spiderverse is literally the opposite, that Spiderpeople don't have to suffer those canon events to be Spider-Man. Miguel is literally framed as the villain for believing that to suffer is to be Spider-Man.

[@combatmantis4393]

And now Sales are dropping with others comics like the new Ultimate Spider-Man outselling the main comics. 616 Spidey editorial essentially screwed a top comics series due to their obsession with a status quo.

[@mcpics4448]

@@crimsoneclipse0618I feel that Paul like you said open peoples eyes to how spider-man as a series really is now. Stagnant and full with a lot of oversight with the stories that won’t explore more with the characters. It’s like the second coming of OMD for modern reader

[@Mythodyn]

"Kids can't relate to a Peter who's married and has kids that's not going to work." Oh man if only there was a younger Spider-Man who could be the vessel to tell stories the kids could relate to. They should make a character like that. Call him Mike or something.

[@pqcowboychanel]

Yeah.. Mike moral or something

[@verdurite]

kilometer immorales

[@shinyocelot04archive]

Yeah wouldn't be whacky if there were two massively successful theatrical movies with this Spider-Man that kids saw and enjoyed? And we don't get free money since we'd rather promote Peter suffering for the 85th time?

[@Oddash-lz6kw]

Here's the funny thing about relatability: according to Enterprise Today and Zippier the average American comic reader is over 30. Seriously. Kids aren't really reading comics right now (probably because they're so expensive). What's relatable to a 30-year-old? Balancing their marriage, their careers, their families, and their personal needs. Aging. Stability. No wonder Ultimate Spider-Man is selling like hotcakes- it's a version of Peter that's going through the same struggles as his audience.

[@conic2721]

And maybe he could be a real awesome dude with a lot of MORALS... Maybe Mike Morals? That sounds good.

[@dwayneduphraine7024]

The worst part of Ms. Marvel being the one to sacrifice herself is, that was _also_ an act of the editors meddling. The whole thing was orchestrated so that she could be resurrected as a mutant, because she's a mutant in the MCU instead of an inhuman, and there needs to be brand consistency between the comics and films.

[@JohnWilliams-wl9px]

She was always meant to be a mutant. The reason she wasn’t because when she was created Marvel was pissed at FOX because of movie rights.

[@MoojinBoi]

​@@JohnWilliams-wl9pxbut you know that's not why they did this, almost 10 years after the fact wasn't to "make things right", it was 100% because of the MCU bullshit

[@Gabe600]

​@@JohnWilliams-wl9pxAnd thank god for that, because the Inhumans were never that popular she was allowed to be her own character insted of just another mutant that would end up as a brackground character, If you follow X-Men comics for long enough you will notice that every couple years they created a New generation of young mutants but usually only a few of them end up sticking around and stay relevant

[@gregcourtney751]

And now.... she's both! As it was already established she's inhuman due to an ancestor marrying an inhuman. Thus they just had another ancestor marry a mutant. We've gotten a hint of what will probably come, kamala having her polymorph powers and her new mutant powers (her mcu powers) at the same time and combing them together for cool moves. That's gonna be fun.

[@shinyocelot04archive]

Kamala has been messed up from the beginning because of executive meddling. The creators wanted her to be a mutant but Disney refused to make new mutants because of petty reasons to not pay Fox, so inhuman it is. The mutant decision in the MCU just caused even more problems and they went the absolute worst route to give her the MCU powers. Just have it that her mutant gene overrides the inhuman one or something while she's helping Spider-Man, not whatever happened in ASM 25.

[@KalvinEllis]

The real problem isn't Paul, it's that MJ left Peter for him. Paul is an instrument created to undermine her credibility as a romantic partner to Peter, but she's the one who was ruined. Look at the "Spider Incel" thing: MJ leaves Peter for another guy, treats him like shit for a year - noone calls her out on it. Peter gets possessed by an evil being and expresses basic human emotion(hate) for the woman who betrayed him - gets called an "incel" or a "chud" for it. This status quo is poison.

[@caboose135]

I'm going to become a comic writer and climb the ladder at Marvel for years until I get to write on a Spider-Man series so I can write a story where it's revealed Paul has been killing people and the Punisher mag dumps him.

[@tVt2000]

I’d buy that

[@thebigboss1824]

Godspeed

[@roseoliveira6709]

Good luck, another writer will probably just retcon his death, bring him back with super powers or do a multiversal reset and make a part of history since the beggining.

[@rifarira9160]

I will be waiting for that, friend. make sure you tag me once that happen.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

Have Peter try and save Paul but fail to, would be so freaking ironic.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

This whole video is a repeating sequence of "Okay this can work and here's how but also it's vague enough that thenwriters can play with it still" then followed by "Oh not only did they not do that they rereaffirmed that they are so dedicated to the status quo of perpetual peter pergatory that they'll shred the rest of the status quo in order to keep it."

[@cooldud7071]

Well... that is why fans are mad.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

@@cooldud7071 I did not intend to come off as claiming otherwise, apologies. This comment was meant to be in agreement with what you just said.

[@cooldud7071]

@@youtubeuniversity3638 It's fine. I get where you're coming from.

[@sparking023]

The fans are very insisting in filling in the blanks and fixing marvel's shit, yes

[@professorhaystacks6606]

I read that as 'petergatory' at first. That should be a word.

[@Draco9052]

Why the fuck should I ever care about 616 spiderman ever again. If marvel doesn't want him to progress due to a fear of alienating their audience, then that means he will never progress even if MJ is gone. So if spiderman can't progress in life since he has to be relatable, he ends up not being relatable. So.... why should any of us care about this guy? He's stuck in time, and all of us are moving on.

[@rayvenkman2087]

You know why they insist on it? Because MJ Parker is an idea from the Jim Shooter Era and if you know anything about the likes of Joe Q and his ilk, they abhor everything about the man. It starts to add up when you consider how the company effectively flew off the rails into bankruptcy within a few years after he was ousted and the unacceptable garbage that makes it past editorial is something you get when you don’t have an editor in chief who does their job. Marvel has already alienated their audience around the late 2010’s to now where absolute atrocities too numerous to name offhand that not even mid-90’s Marvel at its most dire would be pleased to put out. They forever alienated a lot of people when they thought One More Day needed to be made and has kept alienating more by have a bunch of Joe Q’s loyalists refuse to budge on the fact the divorce is a bad idea because it meant admitting that Jim actually did something good. Hell, half of the BS in the industry tends to be largely from Silver Age fans basically running the asylum and the big two trying to avoid giving their most popular to the families of their creators including Captain America as per the law regarding intellectual property. I could be wrong but it does explain a lot of things.

[@Jepze158]

@@rayvenkman2087 Wasn't Shooter out from Marvel when they married MJ and Peter?

[@TheUncivilizedNation]

I mean Peter is progressing seeing as though he and Venom have reunited in the Venom War run

[@rayvenkman2087]

@@Jepze158When did he leave in 1987 relative to ASM Annual #21?

[@darkrai436]

And you know what's the worst part about it? That the editors *actually believe* they're doing the right thing. A fan sent a letter to Marvel criticising the current Spider-Man run, calling it a disservice to the character and to the creators. How did editor Nick Lowe respond to that? By claiming that Stan, Ditko, and Romita Sr. wouldn't want Peter's life to develop, even though they were there to make Peter grow. The gall of these atrocious people and their immature way of thinking.

[@Hadeks_Marow]

The problem with paul is. . . narratively speaking, there is NO POINT in MJ existing, as a character, if paul only exists to say that MJ can't play the role and do the only thing she was created to do. To be a potential love interest. Her character has no point and thus she has no place in the story. If she is supposed to just represent that "awkward Ex that you still choose to be friends and hang out with" then the question has to be ask. . . what does that role even do to the story? Is it just to say peter has friends and to give him some version of a social life? Like, i'm sorry, but this isn't how you check that box. This relation between her and peter is just awkward. And, again narratively, their friendship has no impact on the story. She already knows hes the spider so there is no issue about "balance between peter and hero", let alone struggle with secret identity. She isn't a damsel, she isn't his guy in the chair, she isn't directly linked to any other major characters (like working for the bugle), she isn't a friend turned villain, she's not a victim. She's just kinda. . . not involved at all with anything to do with the character. The problem isn't paul. The problem is pauls existence makes MJ have less relevance to the story than CW's Iris West. There is nothing left to her character, and paul just happens to represent that.

[@topster888]

"We need to increase the series' longevity by making the fans hate everything they like about the series" is a bold strategy

[@TrineofFire333]

Seemed to work because people still buy this garbage.

[@reicherwallace6774]

​@@TrineofFire333 I think they call this sunk cost.

[@thecaptain6845]

Paul just gives off Subway Jared vibes. He's not into kids, but there's something insidious and unnatural about him when you look at the cracks in his goofy persona, like the main villain in The Stepfather.

[@SuperBatman1939]

I mean he die lie to and gaslight a taken woman into abandoning her love for her partner to start a relationship with him… (This is only a mild exaggeration since MJ didn’t even know Paul’s last name until years after she met him; never mind the genocide stuff)

[@dhayris160]

He reminds me of Todd from The Boys.

[@DJET723]

@@SuperBatman1939did he actually lie and gaslight mj into abandoning Peter? I thought that was a natural progression in context to the story

[@Subpar1O1]

​@@DJET723he did set it up by pushing Peter through the portal and making it so he was stuck in that plane with MJ. Obviously there was no nefarious intent with that but it doesn't feel natural, it still always feels like Paul didn't really earn anything, his relationship feels like it's built on a lie

[@SuperBatman1939]

@@DJET723 He literally told her he was from Earth 616 when he wasn’t. He didn’t tell her about the time difference between dimensions despite knowing about it (“a long time ago, for me at least”). He told her to give up on ever seeing Peter again immediately after Peter was sent back and kept encouraging her to give up on him returning. Oh and there’s the fact that he didn’t tell her the truth about her situation, about his role in the ruined world, or his last name until YEARS after meeting her (AFTER she had started sleeping with him btw). Nothing about this is natural. MJ’s bf is a dude from another universe who accidentally genocided that universe and didn’t tell her until way after. MJ wouldn’t have ever fallen for Paul, and she sure as hell wouldn’t still be with him after discovering the truth. But Zeb gotta Zeb.

[@fiaschampion3379]

"See ya, chumps" at the death of Paul's kids had me rolling lmao

[@MoojinBoi]

SAME LMAO

[@weed3728]

LMAOOOOO

[@demilung]

"fuck them kids"

[@jellyface401]

Not your problem

[@X_Gon_Give_It_To_Ya]

Gonna cry Paul?

[@teleportedbreadfor3days]

Here’s the thing about Spider-Man, according to Stan Lee. He wanted to write a character who had ‘personal problems’. Personal problems refers to relatable everyday issues such as where to take your girlfriend on your next date next week or getting milk on the way home for your aunt, with Stan Lee having admittedly drawn inspiration from his own personal life when he was growing up. I personally think Marvel actually knows Stan Lee said he wanted Spider-Man to be a superhero with ‘personal issues’, but they misinterpreted what that really means. And so, we continue to get weirder Spider-Man stories that are also so often written just to bring the man to the dirt and kick him while he’s down. In more modern comics with Spidey, he’s said outright that he hates his life. The thing is, I don’t think he’s even supposed to, or at least to the degree he’s been given these days.

[@spookypumkin6387]

I already knew about that Ms. Marvel death controversy before I watched the video, but knowing now that it was connected to the whole Paul thing is just… awful, to put it simply.

[@AlriikRidesAgain]

And the thing is, as an X-Men reader, I was suddenly dropped Ms. Marvel as a super important character and Mutant hero of the future with mysterious powers she hasn't accessed yet unrelated to her Inhuman powers, and I was like... Huh?

[@Deltanium2080]

"HERE'S ONE PAUL YOU'LL NEVER CRAWL YOU RED AND BLUE BUFFOON" - Paul, 2024 (probably)

[@Mjgaming54321]

He became Paul when a brick Paul fell on him, transforming him into a living Paul. Disturbing when you really think about it.

[@sanguine-moon]

thank you quote from cave story

[@sofiemaster892]

HE’S TRYING TO AJUST WITH NO WRIST CONTROLS

[@nerdwarp112]

✍️🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@Deltanium2080]

@@sanguine-moon Finally someone else recognises, no problem

[@Exziles]

Paul is like the actual fictional representation of Spider-Man editorial. He's a representation of what Joe Quesada, Nick Lowe, and Tom Breevoort believe Spider-Man should be. He keeps Peter from being with Mary Jane, he is in part a reason as to why Peter isn't happy, which is what they always believe Peter should be. But most of all, he directly regresses Peter's character once again. At the end of the Nick Spencer run, Peter was finally in a good place, he and Mary Jane were about to move in together, and then Paul comes in and goes "sorry bruh, not on my watch". I can't for the life of me think of another Marvel or DC character who has an editorial team who is so disconnected with their fanbase on how a character should be written. It's actually crazy!

[@BenM6]

Dc had that problem, lasted 5 years and fixed it. My superman and flash fan friend is happy they are both married and handling problems again

[@Hawkatana]

@@BenM6 That was just one editor: Dan DiDio, and he was infamous for his raging hateboner against Wally since he started working for DC in 2002. Also, Superman's issues were more a result of a writer: Brian-Michael Bendis. Editorial's problem there was letting him have free reign.

[@sumanoskae]

They really don't seem to understand how much they've twisted the concept of 'relatability' into a parody of itself. They seem to think that misery porn is relatable... which is kind of sus, honestly.

[@Hawkatana]

@@sumanoskae IKR? It's crazy how a I: a man in his mid-20's who has never had a partner relates more to a 35 year-old married man with two kids than what 616 Peter has become. Hell, I relate more to *Miles* at this point, and I'm white.

[@BenM6]

@@Hawkatana i heard he hated legacy characters too. Like nightwing.

[@WebbedManiac]

I think one of the reasons that Paul got a backlash this huge was because Zeb Wells' run directly followed Nick Spencer's run. Nick Spencer almost made it blatantly obvious that he wanted to retcon One More Day. So the hype meter of the fandom was at an all-time high. The fact that the editorial not only prevented Spencer from doing that but also proceeded to solidify OMD using Paul just after that was the thing the made the fandom explode.

[@carmelle127]

To Paul: Let me say Im the biggest hater I hate the way you walk The way you talk I hate the way you dress I hate the way you sneak diss If I catch flight its gonna be direct

[@archivist_13]

Euphoria but it being about Paul would go kinda hard ngl

[@henhenhennyhenhen]

Dear MJ, I'm sorry that that man is your husband lemme be honest

[@Cyn_the_goober]

Beat yo ahh and hide the comics if Stan watchin'

[@0uttaS1TE]

It's not just me, I'm what the culture feelin'

[@omoaubs]

this ain't been about fans, not about writers, not about who the greatest it's always been about love and hate, now let me say I'm the biggest hater i hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk, i hate the way that you dress i hate the way you date mj, if peter catch flight it's gon' be direct we hate the girl that you like 'cause she confuses herself with who she datin' and notice, i said "we," it's not just me, I'm what the fandom feelin' how many more fairytale stories 'bout your life 'til we had enough? how many more backstories 'til you finally feel that you're worthy enough? i like paul in the background, i don't like paul when he act tough you gon' make a [buddy :)] bring back bendis, lemme see if jackpot really crash somethin' yeah, parker's first one like his last one, it's a classic, you don't have one let the editors stomach that, then tell 'em where they lost their audience from jackpot, it's a fast one, baow-baow-baow, last one headshot for the year, you better fly around like goblin remember? ayy, parker, who the fuck he think he playin' with? murder's your middle name as soon as he messes up your life, bitch I'm allergic to the lame shit, only you like bein' famous MJ can't give you no swag neither, i don't give a fuck 'bout who you hang with surprised you wanted that children request, you know that you got some shit to address i even hate when you say the word "peter," but that's just me i guess your life just cringeworthy, it ain't even gotta be deep, i guess still love when you see success, everything with watson is blessed keep makin' him dance, being real bland, and you'll be seen a threat this is terrible and has awful flow but it's funny (i will do more if comments want)

[@icarusgaming6269]

Are we not gonna talk about how they sacrificed the only serialized version of Ms Marvel for this pointless war on the fanbase? She's dead now, and she had nothing to do with it! The grand finale of the whole Raven arc was him murdering a teenager who Peter barely knew. What the fuck, Marvel

[@geraldobrien5956]

They needed an excuse to reveal that she was a mutant by bringing her back via the Resurrection Protocols. One of the dumbest moves ever and completely undermine her creators original intent.

[@JohnWilliams-wl9px]

@@geraldobrien5956actually her creator meant for her to be a mutant but editorial flat out told her to change because Marvel at the time was trying to downplay the X-men. They flat out forbid new mutant characters.

[@connormellin7777]

Yeah I'm gonna miss Kamala

[@wesreleases6346]

Ms. Marvel was resurrected like two months later. Her death did not stick in the slightest. She’s had two miniseries published recently.

[@brandonlyon730]

@@JohnWilliams-wl9px Probably because of the whole movies thing that became pointless after Disney bought Fox and got the rights to X-men again. Even if it was a very petty thing to do in the first place.

[@AvaMarie02]

The sheer hatred Spider-Man fans have for this man will never not warm my heart

[@federicoricca2512]

I don't even read comics, I just adore Spiderman fans hating on Paul's existence

[@Umcarinhasemtrabalho]

Hatred? Maybe i feel a sense of dread in the air

[@Elementroar]

The fact that Ultimate Peter looks vaguely like Paul is kinda hilarious. The whole moustache and glasses lol.

[@toastercannon7941]

It’s the only way it could get past editorial I guess

[@MaidenlessScrub]

@@toastercannon7941 Yeah, but the fabulous hair line makes ultimate Pete 100 times more handsome

[@toastercannon7941]

@ true

[@hangry3102]

I'm 95% sure paul is a self insert for the writer who wants to be married to MJ. It's reads like a fanfic its so out of character.

[@vrrooooommmm123]

who even reads amazing anymore? it’s literally peter’s hell/purgatory

[@retronerds6884]

They don’t even like mj

[@shizachan8421]

It feels like som Nice Guys Self-Insert, yeah.

[@kingofthegundam7974]

I don't think it's a self insert for Wells. He said that he wanted to explore a relationship where Peter cannot be with MJ, and Paul happened to be the character to create the drama.

[@retronerds6884]

@@kingofthegundam7974 he’s a self insert for editorial

[@WesleyRoberson-t9t]

I think I felt the shockwave of the collective of Spider-man fans globally rejoicing at the reveal of his marrige to MJ and having kids with her in the new Ultimates universe.

[@AaronLitz]

They're making _another_ Ultimate universe? Ugh. The first one was already _more_ than enough garbage. [EDIT] I take it back; I just read the first issue of _Ultimate Spider-Man_ and it was _amazing_ (pun fully intended.)

[@He-who-wakes]

​@@AaronLitzyou seem a little late to the party bud. The ultimate universe has been going for like a year now and isnt anywhere near as bad as the original

[@KajiRider1997]

Renew your vows and Mayday fans like me literally cried

[@Chuckles3100]

@@He-who-wakes the problem is that is EXACTLY how the original ultimate universe was recieved. Let's see how the rest of this new ultimate universe plays out.

[@BenM6]

​@@Chuckles3100 i'm begging that this makes an effect were someone at marvel uses USM success to say "you gotta change asm to be more like that other book that is critically acclaimed and makes twice the money" considering this is what supposedly happened with the original usm(although the monetary succes of usm in its beginning seems to be a myth )

[@Subpar1O1]

33:46 is so fkn funny, Paul's voice actor genuinely doesn't care and Peter's is channeling his inner "SHOCKEEEEEERRRRRR!!!"

[@toyohimeyeswatatsuki6917]

I guess even his VA barely care who he is...i mean i wouldn't blame them

[@rifarira9160]

ONOREEEEE, DIKEIDOOOOO

[@apples6684]

@@rifarira9160 was not expecting to see a Kamen Rider reference in the replies to this, even if I was thinking along similar lines

[@Timberdoodle720]

if peter hits the ichigo pose at least once i'm gonna be happy

[@shinyocelot04archive]

GET BACK HERE SHOCKER! I'LL CHASE YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTHHH!!

[@spanglezekankleplushapalooza]

As someone who has loved Spider-Man basically for my entire life and recently found a comic store near me, I avoided Amazing and picked up Ultimate 2024 when it became a thing because I did not like the idea of dealing with things like this on a regular basis

[@shadowmist9093]

I mean Goku has a kid and he's still loved by young readers. I just think those editors just hate peter being happy.

[@cherrybramble]

yeah but Goku is also a terrible father and the fact he has a kid is sort of circumstantial, if that makes sense.

[@Witchhunter7020]

​@@cherrybramble Bro Goku isn't a terrible father. He isn't winning father of the year yes but his very very far from being considered terrible.

[@cherrybramble]

@@Witchhunter7020 just because of your reply I now consider him an even worse father

[@Burlapyui]

​@@cherrybramble Goku gave his life for Gohan multiple times and has complete trust on him, something that makes him better than most parents despite not being able to spend as much with his kid

[@wtfstudios4093]

​​@@cherrybrambleYou probably only say that thanks to TFS. I like what they did with their version of the series, but they low-key enforced that stereotype all across the internet for the past decade that I'm still bitter about.

[@normalname8250]

Paul managed to piss marvel readers off so much that they got away with having Ms. Marvel, a Muslim girl, die in Pieta pose, a pose used to allude to the death of Jesus Christ, and not a single person commented on how disrespectful it was to both faiths. Marvel editorial got away with a double sacrilege, all because fans were too distracted hating on Paul.

[@magicman3163]

Tbf it’s Jews they hate everyone not Jewish

[@ThyFloorestFloor]

Her death as a whole was disrespectful to the character. Like, she died without anyone she was actually close to, she's not that close with Peter, if her death is affecting a Spider-Man it's Miles who's one of her best friends. She didn't die in one story centered around here or where she was a key player surrounded by characters who knew her well and she cared for. She died in this random event, surrounded by mostly strangers, and ended up bleeding out in an alleyway. Not a fitting death if I've ever seen one.

[@meh4294]

☹️

[@MonkeyLuffy-v3c]

@@ThyFloorestFloor apparently her death has smth to do with the company wanting to rewrite her backstory so that she's a mutant like they originally planned

[@berdem6157]

F islam

[@jeniskindof]

"he can't progress in life he literally wouldn't be relatable anymore" Can't think of anything more relatable than growing up getting a house getting married and having a couple of kids.... Unless you're a marvel writer who still haven't grown up

[@RobBlu-d6u]

It's almost like they don't want you to believe getting married and having a family is a realistic goal for the average person anymore.

[@MusicoftheDamned]

And even for the people who don't want that and/or can't relate to it like myself, there's still no real appeal in seeing a character we like *always* be miserable and unable to get the things they want despite constantly being a good person. That it's also at the whims of people who not only use the "unrelatable" excuse but then use thinly-veiled self-inserts as the instruments of Peter's constant misery just make the whole thing even more gross than it already is.

[@patoastral2118]

Or not even these things but jist not being misserable all the time and comically bad things hapenning always with you being unable to grow, thats just not relatable by any means

[@tgr3423]

It's so ridiculous that the message we can take away is, "No matter how responsible you are, no matter how much good you do in the world, you will never be recognized for your achievements and anything positive that occurs in your life is doomed to crumble to ash in your hands."

[@BiscuitBuccaneer]

Buying an apartment for your first time? There I thought of one... Took 2 seconds lol

[@SeseOB2003]

Alex was surprisingly chairtble towards Paul and his character, I’m used to the (understandable) rage and hatred he gets, to be honest I only felt morbid curiosity on why he exists. I was considering picking up some Spider-Man series to read, and the ultimate Spider-Man series for this year looks like fun.

[@Pencilman246]

Ultimate Spider-Man is great. Grab the first TPB. The second arc has two more issues I think, #11 comes out this month.

[@HabitualThinker]

Hey! Dont. Please don’t. Don’t give them a reason to continue

[@TheDrexxus]

Fans: We love married spider-man! Marvel: Fans only like spiderman when he's single. Fans: No! We like him being married! Marvel: Erase the marriage from existence. Fans: NOOOOO! WE WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU FOR THIS Marvel: Huh, why is Spider-man not selling as well as it used to. Maybe no one has heard he's single again?

[@greendaleforever]

Spider-Man....NOW with poop jokes! (Written by Dan Slott)

[@isaiahgarraway5568]

Editorially actually did this. When asked by a fan during a convention about mj and Peter being back, fans cheered but editorial states in his face no we won't but check out our shitty plans for MJ as a hero no one wanted.

[@Killgore-ip2yq]

Spider-Man editorial love gaslighting Spider-Man fans. 😂

[@coolman5242]

Marvel editors can't fathom the idea that people can still be happy for other people, even if that happiness isn't relatable.

[@DDeusExMachina]

@@greendaleforeverI think you mean Dan Slopp

[@milkiassamuel780]

I love how you separated each part of the video into the 5 Stages of Grief regarding Zeb Well's Spider-Man run. I am so thankful Jonathan Hickman came around and save Spiderman's legacy with his fantastic Ultimate Spiderman current run, which gives us the Peter Parker we want to see, an older Peter who is happily married to MJ and has two adorable kids and starts a whole new chapter starting out as Spiderman and works alongside Harry Osborn as Green Goblin. Thank you, Jonathan Hickman

[@FrankieD8283]

Let's definitely enjoy it while we can, I can already sense things starting to crumble...I doubt it would ever get as bad as the main continuity though.

[@mantraki]

​@@FrankieD8283pray to whatever god you know that ultimatum doesn't happen again

[@Future_Vantas]

Credit to the Spider-Verse movies too. It started out with a Peter Parker alone and miserable and by the end of Into he was encouraged to reconcile with MJ. Then the next movie shows Pete is a happy father to an adorable baby girl and married to a supportive wife, it was so good to see.

[@kayaanbedi5554]

Jonathan Hickman based Earth-6160 Peter Parker on Earth-616 Reed Richards and Earth-6160 Mary Jane Watson-Parker on Earth-616 Susan Storm-Richards

[@housewilma4904]

@@kayaanbedi5554 did they? i thought 616 richards also was suffering from writting problems what with how they needed to keep having the maker comeback to be thrown in his face.

[@whade62000]

"We need to make Peter more relatable for the kids" (turns Peter into an aged burnout)

[@TheInquisitiveMug]

I put this video off for 2 weeks because I thought it's be a bummer- not because I'm angry about Paul but because it's a gut punch even for a casual like myself. You did good, Alex. This was a good god damned video.

[@TransformersGeek14]

Apart of it is crazy, because with how many young people still read comics they could’ve used Peter and MJ to show kids what a good healthy couple is. Show Peter being understanding, MJ being supportive, etc. but they threw the opportunity away

[@哲二川上]

Also how classic. Peter is a toxic Guy for being(rightfully) pissed off at his Woman being taken from him. And MJ is Right for…Essentially being assasinated into your typical stockholm syndrome for a guy that kidnapped her and Took her from her life where…yeah it was hard but ultimately happy into her just causing misery to everyone around her

[@Shinteo5]

That's the point, I think. They don't want a good healthy couple. They want drama and suspense, which is something that a trusting and solid relationship will kill. I recall there is one old comic that has some actor try to seduce MJ, but she remembers that she is happy with Peter and did not fall for that. No drama and no suspense. Just a good solid relationship. And to those idiots in management at Mavel, boring.

[@mythosinfinite6736]

You'd think that, but I don't think anyone involved in the creation of these things even understands that a healthy relationship can exist.

[@licespice0]

All my homies hate paul

[@bendyandtacky]

If paul has no haters, I am dead.

[@Thepalevoidedknight]

Real

[@mateushenriquepinheiro3197]

Facts

[@THEGOOFINGTON]

ned undoubtedly singles paul

[@IAmMightyMike]

If you have more than one friend that is that much in touch with comics that they even know paul, I'm jealous

[@slim_streams]

Paul is essentially a face that people can point at as a representation of what's bad about modern spider-man. He as a character is just designed to keep Peter unhappy and never grow or change. He may just be some random guy, but his mere existence is frustrating

[@serenityq26]

It really isnt

[@spider-man500]

​@@serenityq26Stop fucking lying. Paul is the bane to Spider-Man's happiness in physical form

[@boneappletea3858]

So....MJ just out of the blue loves Paul in a hell dimension and stopped loving Peter enough to stay with him? Is that right? Wow, what a bunch of bullocks.

[@nooneinparticular5256]

"Daddy? What's Spiderman about?" "It's about a man who's not allowed to be happy."

[@instantpurple1282]

It’s just Berserk, but bad and with a sh*tty editorial team.

[@Spectacular-Collects]

HE FUCKING LIVES!!!! ALEX LIVES!!!!!

[@Penacts]

HE LIVES

[@yikesyourchunkyhostilityha2321]

SOMEHOW ALEX RETURNED!!

[@Fantastic_Stranger]

ALEX LIVES (after a 6 month break 🥴)

[@archivist_13]

HE MANAGED TO BEAT PAUL AND RELEASE HIS EXPOSE

[@lane1536]

LONG LIVE ALEX!

[@benncourt]

I can't believe Ultimate Spider-Man has helped me during two very challenging stages in my life and helped me change for the better, during 2009 and during 2024. Ultimate marvel truly is the goated line

[@dajokahbaby1506]

Paul’s like the squid monster from Watchmen, every corner of the Spidey fandom united out of their sheer hatred for him

[@griggorirasputin6555]

Really? I liked watchmen, it was a good read and the squid monster thing was a good part of its subversion

[@Helder70]

​@@griggorirasputin6555He's talking about how in watchmen the world unites against the giant squid, not the watchmen fandom

[@xthelegend89]

@@griggorirasputin6555I think he means in-universe, like all the nations of the world came together because of the squid monster.

[@griggorirasputin6555]

@@Helder70 I see, my bad lmao

[@Willified]

​@@griggorirasputin6555He's talking about the in-universe reaction to the monster

[@TheAzulmagia]

I remember in the 90s, kids could never decide if Peter's greatest villain was Green Goblin, Doc Ock, or Venom. Turns out, the actual answer was the Marvel Editorial Staff.

[@wilfweNightsky]

It always has been. Who else would turn a superhero into misery porn?

[@greendaleforever]

THESE WOUNDS THEY WILL NOT HEEEAAAAALLLLLLLLL

[@okshamaulana5266]

I never got the argument that they want to keep peter young when MILES IS RIGHT THERE, he represents the younger audience, let peter grow man🤦‍♂️

[@Cklert]

Miles up until about 6 years ago, wasn't much of a character. He was introduced in 2011, but really didn't have any interesting personality or characteristics going on. It was really due to the success of ITSV and Marvel's Spider-Man 2018 video game, that Miles started to really stand out as a character and popularity. Miles comics these past 2 years though have been great and engaging. Like they stand out and are miles (pun intended) ahead of Peter's.

[@MusicoftheDamned]

On top of what the person above me explained about Miles not really existing during the _One More Day_ debacle, much less existing in the mainline universe, there's additional issue that the "keep Peter young" thing has always felt like a pretext anyway. This especially since it's not like actual "youths" would care about if he was married or not short of his married civilian life threatening to take over the entirety of his series, which it never did. The closest it ever got to that was ironically with _One More Day_ itself given what a false argument it was (and how stupid Mephisto's fixation & that storyline in general were/are).

[@TheDeathmail]

Not to mention that we have MULTIPLE comic versions of Peter.... so having one version grow WOULD be relatable. Hell, I grew up as a kid reading about a married Peter Parker and I also read Spider-Girl comics with Peter as a DAD..... And I never stopped relating to him....

[@prod.kilvkrxcksxlvd8183]

Even if you don't like Miles (which most comic fans have made obvious), removing the ONE chance they had to make a new protegé (Benjy, Mayday ect.) is insanely stupid.

[@sampeter1471]

they never wanted to keep him young one of the garbage writers just has a cuckold fetish and is just making excuses 😂

[@Herald_of_galactus]

Always love your videos dude. Your passion for Spider-Man is infectious.

[@anenemystand5582]

Its so telling that editorial's main reason for keeping peter and Mj apart is marketability not because they genuinely think it makes for a good story. Personally I think people who think in those terms when it comes to art should be kept as far away from it as possible

[@Hawkatana]

That's the worst part, it's the opposite. Spider-Man editorial have been defending their position on breaking up Peter & MJ for almost *20 years* now despite interest in the books dropping since then and having not recovered.

[@donkeyman9992]

It's really weird that people all seem to agree that these peripheral works: Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Verse, the cartoons, movies, and games, all seem to tell the real story of Peter Parker. The mainline comic ironically feel like the mutated, less-accurate version of that story, because in many ways it is.

[@oldylad]

Not the game, never the game. Id I wanted budget Lois lane maybe, or a bland Miles probably, but otherwise never the game

[@b_a_t_m_a_n_]

I think if they hadn't canceled the show, spectacular spiderman would've told a near perfect spiderman story.

[@hyperion3145]

Tbh, that's what the Ultimate universe was for. Most mainline characters are completely fucked, Captain America and Iron Man are in the same ship.

[@thedarkassassin0116]

@@hyperion3145they probably meant the current Ultimate Universe Spider-Man, who got his powers as an adult. Nevertheless, the OG Ultimate Spider-Man run is still memorable

[@AnAverageGoblin]

thats because the comics have turned into advertisement for the shitty MCU

[@zaragachizanparo4948]

The day Spider-Man enters the public domain will be a day I celebrate like never before.

[@cantthinkofaname5046]

He was created in the sixties so we’ll probably be dead my guy

[@SheoGotSomeCheese]

@@cantthinkofaname5046 Yup, 2058 or something.

[@thedukeofchutney468]

I was born in ‘98 so I’ll be in my 60s when this happens.

[@epicloreentertainment8532]

As a writer and artist I'll be ready for that day. Even if I have to wait till I'm old and gray!

[@ihavenonamestilldonthaveon8970]

​@@SheoGotSomeCheese Ill take it, its either then or never.

[@PrinceofTheMonsters]

The thing is, nobody wants to read a comic book and be reminder about the relatable parts of life that make us miserable. It feels like marvel is punishing us for their decisions to keep peter in a constant loop.

[@Wdgsgg]

I want to see the Spider-Man convinces Paul to kill himself arc

[@ark2074]

“Your life is as valuable as a summer aunt”

[@watchamigos1232]

Where's the Symbiote when Peter actually needs it lol?

[@ryszakowy]

damn paul i gotta be honest with you i battled with myself - literally and my hero friends when super hero act was passed i was almost killed by ironman himself because i disagreed with him but against all odds i pulled through... but in your situation.... damn man there's no way to sugarcoat it if i was in your place i wouldn't be capable of going on i don't know how you do it man to be in your situation i would swing to the top of empire state and web my arms to my body and just jump there's literally no hope for you man >good ending

[@KaneMeadowsGaming]

Call it The Low Tier Parker Arc

[@demilung]

Remember that one guy Thanos desided to fuck with in particular for no good reason for his entire life? He should switch to Paul.

[@doubledocable]

Allow me to quote Mephisto, while explaining his terms to MJ for him to save aunt May: "Let's say this...Enjoy the world as it is for as long as you can. For you will only have it for one more day. *You will not consciously remember this bargain, or this moment, or the life you lived to this point. But there will be a very small part of your soul that will remember, that will know what you lost. And my joy will be in listening to that part of your soul screaming throughout eternity.* You have until midnight tomorrow to say yes." That "part of your soul" are the readers. People at Marvel are messing with our minds because that's what they like to do. If they wanted to give Peter some joy they'd have given it to him by now, after so many years. There's can be no other explanation.

[@redflame2328]

Damn.

[@dliatsos1]

Yep, and part of both MJ and Peter's souls would no doubt be screaming as well for all of this happening. I really wish they didn't have to do that. But sadly, we have no choice but to endure this travesty. Maybe one day the two of them will say enough of this and get back together. I'll keep enduring it though. No matter how long it takes. Maybe I'll be dead of old age before they are back together, but I suppose my spirit would not simply rest until they are. I'd like to think it at least, but I wouldn't really claim to know otherwise really.

[@lordrj4203]

Mephisto finding infinite soul weed glitch for him to smoke forever with all the reader's souls in agony He really pulled one up over Deadpool with this one , can't get more Meta than this Not to mention people hate on One More Day storyline but not him cause he's the Devil so no smoke with the readers and Marvel editors won't let that story change like a cannon event at any cost Mephisto is the only one winning(other than comic sales) and by a landslide

[@shinybreloom4027]

what a monster mephisto is

[@alexanderchippel]

"We wouldn't want to alienate the yougner fans!" The editor said, not understanding that nobody under the age of 25 buys comic books.

[@PolarPhantom]

I work in a library and you know what graphic novels the kids takeout? Stuff like Dog Man and Diary of a Wimpy Kid. We have comicbooks for the older crowd but primarily adults borrow them. Heck, we only let adults borrow them because of the content of such stories.

[@BoyBlunder66]

Man, Marvel needs such a damn shake-up, but sadly it doesn't seem like those in charge would allow that to happen anytime soon. It's sad seeing such a massive part of so many people's lives over so many years dying a slow sad death.

[@monobro141]

Paul trying to morally grand stand SPIDER-MAN is something that my eyes SHOULD NOT SEE Edit:I DID NOT EXPECT THIS COMMENT TO GET MORE THAN 3 LIKES THANKS

[@archivist_13]

Please do not provide a timestamp, I don't want to see this

[@monobro141]

​@@archivist_13I won't because NO ONE needs to see that because IT SHOULD NOT EXIST

[@archivist_13]

@@monobro141 WELL SAID

[@dane1382]

@@monobro141 SHOW ME, MY EYES HUNGER

[@somethinganonymous1723]

@@dane1382 I concur with dane. I simply must see the tripe

[@covereye5731]

I think they should give Paul his own comic series, where every time it looks like things will almost go horribly for him but he always comes out better then before. Also have Parker getting beat up in the background of some panels and don't address it.

[@Parmesan_Seeker]

Marvel's gonna call you.

[@changvasejarik62]

I think it’s more likely he’ll appear in the next take on marvel zombies as either a red shirt or a background kill. Or we’ll see Marvel universe vs spiderman and its Paul who created survivor 118.

[@somethingclever4297]

​@@changvasejarik62he'll survive the next marvel zombies. He will be like Rick grimes.

[@cadettrev762]

@@changvasejarik62He’s gonna be the leader of the group of survivors, Spider Man is gonna keep being against his leadership and being “that guy” in the zombie apocalypse, and then he’s gonna die while Paul saves the day

[@changvasejarik62]

@@cadettrev762 doubtful, if there’s one truly great thing about the MZ writers it’s that they do occasionally throw us a bone, by gruesomely killing characters people didn’t like. Or something of equal greatness like cyborg warmachine, stark using science and alcoholism to kill zombies, ash Williams working with Doom, or the super team of Kansas where one is a human sunflower and the other is basically sandman but made of several healthy and delicious grains.

[@callac]

if they wanted a Spider-Man for the new generation, they already have one, Miles. There was no need to piss on Peter's life story and then drop a nuclear bomb of feces, Marvel.

[@Kirayoshiikage]

THAT IS WHAT THE MULTIVERSE SHOULD BE A WAY TO FINISH CHARACTERS OFF AND STILL CONTINUE MAKING MONEY

[@NoahToledo-xo5pj]

Marvel is too busy fucking him up in the opposite way

[@GuyParson]

sadly, Miles is nowhere near as popular as Peter, even now that Miles has his own movies and a game, Peter's movies and games still sell far, Far more.

[@jahmoymignott4081]

New generation here most of us don't know about Miles and some like me don't like Him well Comic version this nigga keep getting power up for no reason and Pete like normal life is a Bitch for Him

[@Catto_Ninja]

​@@GuyParson so here's what they are going to do: for the love of god, give Peter finally a good life and an ending, and move on to a Peter from another universe, essentially do a reboot but without rebooting anything at all, you will only jump to another universe, the Peter 1 saga has achieved the end, now we see the life of Peter 2. It's as simple as that, no more suffering and another Peter to a new generation of kids and teens to grow and evolve with him, not evolve past him like is happening now.

[@danalvin1184]

Wow this is exceptionally layered & erudite commentary -- gratitude!

[@sopebarrofficial3557]

“Oh, Peter! I thought I’d lost you!” “Hm..? MJ? Wh-what’s going on? Ah.. my head…” “Honey, you’ve been out for months, please, get some rest…” “Where am I..? What happened to Paul and Mephi-“ “Paul? Honey, who’s Paul?” “… Ah, he’s nobody. Weird dream I had.”

[@rayvenkman2087]

Oh if only that was what we got...

[@camerondalton1495]

There's a great fan fan comic with that very premise.

[@archivist_13]

You know a fandom is broken and traumatized when they would legitimately accept the "it was all a dream" at this point

[@Valkyrie77]

I wrote something like that on a another paul-themed video except he woke up from a nightmare and M.J sleeps besides him asking what he dreamed about.

[@v10fc92]

@@camerondalton1495For real!? Where!? Please tell me 😭

[@kingofcrap4414]

I don't hate Paul. Paul is nothing, he's an empty shell created to serve a singular purpose. I hate the Marvel editorial. The Marvel editorial has been leading Spider-Man fans on and manipulating them for years all just to make money. They deserve to lose their jobs with no hope of ever getting into the comics industry again.

[@doctorsketch7476]

This guy, he's absolutely right.

[@somemeatball368]

Marvel has helped spider-man fans get the craziest edging streak when it comes to MJ and Pete lmao

[@jackrogers5712]

Paul is just the avatar of editorial. People are right to hate him, at least in part.

[@Cyborg_Ninja_13]

An Insert Character if u will​@@jackrogers5712

[@robertrowley4929]

I actually made a Tumblr post that fixed Paul as a character and made him somewhat likable. You know, with a proper arc and s***.

[@anubhavkumarc]

10:51 hated? I don't think past tense would ever apply to this, people will forever hate paul. Not a single soul unironically likes paul, if someone does I'd assume they're a homunculus without a soul

[@mythosinfinite6736]

Guess now we know that Marvel's run by soulless homunculi.

[@serenityq26]

Cant imagine someone liking someone who has done nothing wrong simply because you hate them for no reason. Sounds like you are the one with no soul

[@anubhavkumarc]

@@serenityq26 ​ He literally got his entire world killed because he wanted to profit from his dad's "math" magic. Is that doing nothing wrong?

[@nibblesnarfer]

​@@serenityq26 "haven't done anything wrong." LMAAAAAO.

[@IbrahimSamara-u2r]

@@serenityq26deffo one of the only Paul fans

[@jpbo98]

I find it hilarious that “relatable” to the editors means miserable and pathetic.

[@ArcTrooper269]

Current 616 Spider-Man Run truly made appreciate how underground is Moon Knight to the point of giving Jed Mackay & Alessandro Capuccio's what none 616 Spider-Man writer & artist has had for the past 20 years: *CREATIVE FREEDOM*

[@heeeheee6947]

yeah, creative freedom and not financial freedom cuz the sales are gonna plummet 🤣

[@windghost2]

Same with Miles.

[@fanb1536]

Eh. Moon Knight's not a great example. The run is well-written don't get me wrong, and it's *relatively* in a more niche corner of the MU, but he's absolutely suffering from a form of editorial interference. Marvel's trying to push him more thanks to the terrible MCU show, and one of the ways that shows through in the newest comics is how all ambiguity is abandoned: all the magic and fantastical nonsense Moon Knight interacts with is completely and totally real, as opposed to older comic runs, where there was always room for interpretation - it could be real magic, or it could all just be manifestations of MK's wartime and childhood traumas and paranoia affecting his already-damaged mental state. Marvel seems to believe that turning Moon Knight into just "another magic dude but he's Egyptian/Moon themed I guess" is the path to making him marketable. Jed just happened to form a good story inside this status quo.

[@fcomolineiro7596]

Pretty sure freaking sorcerer supreme doctor strange straight up said "konshu is real" ​on the old comics (Wich bring a whole can of worms of not helping Marc whit him, but that's apart) @@fanb1536

[@wesreleases6346]

@@fanb1536I think the real ambiguity regarding the supernatural was only possible in the original run, where it was uncertain if Khonshu was real, if Marc truly resurrected, and if Marc literally had multiple personalities. Those questions were answered after the original volume. Although other writers have found ways of replicating it, like the Lemire run always being unclear on what’s real and what’s in Marc’s head to the very end.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

Paul's basically less a character and more a symbol of the editors basically it's sounding like...

[@rayvenkman2087]

Joe Q?

[@jackrogers5712]

He's an avatar.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

@@jackrogers5712 Last Air Bender or Blue?

[@BoboyMagdalera]

​@@youtubeuniversity3638the indian

[@Henrex2000]

he is Mephisto

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

Ultimates giving a Spidey that literally has "Your past was stolen, do you want it back" come up I 100% can see appealing to those against Paulinization.

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

The wild thing is that it started as weird and maybe a little frustrating for some, kinda just whatever for me. And then obviously my god it snowballs

[@hanayaseth]

@BestgirlJordanfish Who could foresee the catastrophe back then.... I doubt that the editorial even has the fractions of ideas how much the readers will be their greatest and steadfast antagonist.

[@whosey2807]

Same i was like "alright, let's see what happens" to "someone please god kill me into another continuity". Like spiderman reign has that very famous awful MJ subplot but this one just went on for sooooo much longer over so much more ink that it's worse imo. i began to feel genuine dread for Paul every issue because I knew he'd be there, he didn't need to shock me or stun me with wild plot developments. He just needed to wait. He was inevitable, a sweater-clad force of cuckoldry and entropy. Jokes aside though, geniunley, really not a fan. So glad that's over and behind us honestly

[@lesliejacoby9137]

Also Paul is just the actual personification of the forced or random break ups MJ and Peter have gone through. Every other time it was just calling out the writers but now we have a name and face to put to it in the comic itself. Also I hate how much they keep pushing Jackpot for MJ 😭

[@superthorc6894]

I swear they push MJ being Jackpot just so they can keep Paul and her relevant

[@nicholassgobero]

And her Powers are so bad, they are random but she always gets exactly the one she wants, and if she doesn't, she rolls again, bruh

[@zayindarkmore1616]

I really hate it, feels like a damn middle finger to the fans.

[@archivist_13]

Jackpot is pretty cool, I just wish it was literally any other character

[@jamalwalker04]

​@@archivist_13 Exactly I don't even mind the idea of MJ kicking ass but her being a whole superhero just feels so forced. It's just the Editors' way of adding on another arbitrary reason Peter & MJ can't be together.

[@captainweekend5276]

It's quite telling about what Marvel editorial thinks about their readers when their idea of keeping spider man "relatable" is to make him lonely and miserable.

[@imjustlookingformywatch]

The idea of preserving the longevity makes no sense when theyve literally introduced a successor character and mentee with the introduction of Miles Morales.

[@Arunetto]

I can't believe Marvel Comics literally stole from Peter to give to Paul.

[@snowballeffect7812]

omfg lmfao

[@weatherman1504]

Muthafucka! That really do be what they did. Side note Spider Man fans 🤝 Gay people: hating a guy named Paul.

[@professorhaystacks6606]

"That joke was bad and you should feel bad!" ...But it was funny.

[@simonhailom2477]

????

[@professorhaystacks6606]

@@simonhailom2477 "Robbing Peter to pay Paul" is an old expression that means taking from one person to give to another similarly situated person. Specifically it refers to what we now call a Ponzi scheme, after the best-knowing incident. Out of curiosity I googled the phrase to see what it's origin is, and nothing concrete comes up right away. Best speculation I saw is that in medieval England the feast days of Peter and Paul were on the same day and sometimes resources were taken from one feast and given to the other, thus moving things around without actually changing the overall picture.

[@mayotango1317]

30:25 Thanks, I've been saying for years that MJ is written just like Gwen Stacy in the Zeb Wells comics but no one would take me seriously. Thank you.

[@florinefurtado9831]

@@mayotango1317 Gwen Stacy sucks

[@thedukeofchutney468]

Seriously you’re right! I’ve had to correct casuals for years about how Black Cat and Gwen were NOT good or stable people and that Mary Jane was pretty much the only girl who treated Peter decently and now Zeb in all his infinite wisdom decides to character assassinate her into the very thing she was the opposite of.

[@sparking023]

Not only that, Sam Reimi's MJ also behaves like Gwen at times. As much as I love the movies, they did irreparable damage to Mary Jane's image in the public's mind

[@GhostESO]

I am convinced Paul is a "self-insert" of one of the Marvel writers 😂

[@dazzlingpurple756]

@Blur4strikethey still have a few good comics here and there but yeah

[@alexandercastillo9315]

Wells got divorced before this run started so there’s a clue on where Paul came from.

[@angelangelis8362]

Considering he looks like the main writer…

[@thenablade858]

@@angelangelis8362 Only with facial hair. His hair is much darker, eye color isn’t the same, the writer has a wide forehead etc. Zeb Wells was good at writing other comics but this was just needless Peter torment on his part.

[@rayonlinee]

i’m seated for the rest of ur videos!!

[@Redahoge10]

This is the equivalent of training your star athlete with the top of the line tech, coaching, and nutrition and win in turn they always wins gold medals and above, only to replace it all with their entire diet being solely laxative products and with no water, training, or coaching. Sure, some people are gonna attend to point and laugh at the champion gold medalist crapping their pants for the 1st few times, but they've been living off pure laxatives for 4 years now, and the bit has been long overdue to be over after the 1st few times, yet it's still happening and now mostly everyone gave up on whatever.

[@connorburris4846]

Its impressive they haven't died of dehydration yet.

[@melliott81]

I'm so very tired of Peter not being allowed to grow. They have Miles as their young "I always have problems" character - let Peter grow into being a competent adult.

[@ghostprimer]

“2024 will be my year” there’s three months left, Alex

[@comixproviderftw_02]

Better late than never

[@Venorpion]

i honestly not into long videos like this but you did it a great job dude

[@redstonemecha7716]

The reason why everyone hates Paul so much is because of what he stood for. For years fans wanted Peter and MJ to get back together and it seemed like they were about to finally get married again. But then Zeb Wells, Marvel, Disney, pulled this and broke the two up and undid everything that people have been waiting all these years for. Not only that but they did it in the most B***S*** way possible. They suddenly had MJ get married to some random guy and have kids with him and told how that happened in a random story that plot felt out of nowhere. That was only the start as Peter's life started to go down hill fast as Marvel believes that Spiderman can't have a happy life because that somehow makes him unrelatable to readers. All in all, Spiderman is the perfect example on how people take advantage of the icons of the past and twist them into anything that could sell for a lot of money.

[@auliamate]

IT LEGIT JUST HIT ME. this same "peter can never be happy" mentality applies to any spiderman thing marvel has a degree of control over. spiderverse is kinda safe + is challenging this idea with miles not wanting to agree that spiderpeople MUST suffer to become better, same with the games showing how peter is living it up, even when aunt may died, and things got hard, but in the end, they got better. but then we look at the MCU, and how the ending of no way home is literally peter walking away, not getting with MJ, and his life essentially being completely fucked up, aunt may died (AGAIN). NWH Peter quite literally got One More Day'd 😭 i hate it here

[@mttylerdurden9]

Zeb Wells isn't the problem. he's just doing his job as dictated by editorial.