Byzantine Overview AoE2

[@olefredrikskjegstad5972]

AoE2 is where I first discovered the Byzantines. 15 years later I am doing a Master's in history with an emphasis on Byzantine history. I definitely credit this game with planting the seed of my long-time fascination with the history of the latter-day Roman Empire.

[@Vi_XXiV]

I absolutely love that! Such a positive comment, and very inspiring

[@agustindellasala103]

Hey Man! In which university are you? I study history and I definitly would like to do a master in Roman history.

[@olefredrikskjegstad5972]

@@agustindellasala103 University of Agder in Norway.

[@StephenParlow]

This was my experience as well, except I've only got a bachelor's in social studies education :P

[@VittamarFasuthAkbin]

@@olefredrikskjegstad5972 what is your focus on byzantine history?

[@akapbhan]

town watch and town patrol being free is very historically accurate considering the amount of advaced signaling stations that they had to provide info about the raids and attacks

[@olefredrikskjegstad5972]

The beacon system of Gondor from Lord of the Rings was allegedly inspired by the system comissioned by the Emperor Theophilus in the 9th century.

[@v4enthusiast541]

@@olefredrikskjegstad5972- Best way to signal and plan for the annual jihadi raids into the Anatolian plain

[@nemou4985]

The lack of heavy scorpion however isn't given that actually byzantines were the only ones to keep using them...

[@proxwarrior33]

@@nemou4985 petition to give Byzantine free heavy scorpion

[@doomdimensiondweller5627]

Why did it take them so long to get them for free though. The Byzantines suuuuuck they need more buffs. I would argue the Byzantines are one of the worst Civs in the game and most out of place in the current meta

[@JamesonHuddle]

So many of the intro clips are just so satisfying to watch, the spinning vil dodge, goth game plan, and lightsaber duel are probably my favorite however.

[@sebazpereyra9431]

My favorite is the Supremacy villager taking down the Cobra car. And I love that Karambit coin's value keeps plummeting.

[@bladactania]

I miss the moonwalking Eleephant

[@GarkKahn]

My fav are the goths gameplan and the cobra being destroyed by the villager

[@mariano1196]

I wish Spirit went back to making sillier content like Supremacy the movie

[@TubeTAG]

Byzantines are the perfect example of “Jack of all trades, master of none” while simultaneously showing how important it is for a civ to have a clear intended gameplan to be *most* competitive.

[@Igor369]

Except they are masters of few things... They have strongest walls and gates in the game. Whether +40% building HP is better than +21% building HP with +2/2/6 armor is debatable but often +40% hp is better as most sieging is done by trebs, mangos and rams but IIRC architecture is better than +40% against champions. Also they have FU skirmishers with a discount which is as good if not better than a FU skirmisher with a civ bonus.

[@Neon-Lines]

Cataphract deserves a buff

[@gabrielmelnik6796]

Arbalest timing push is a clear choice.

[@chingamfong]

Jack of all trades, master of trash. (That's a compliment)

[@Davtwan]

I think that’s the reason they rank so low on competitive. A lot of newer players bring them for their varied tech tree and defensive capabilities, but they don’t realize they _still need_ a specific build order. The best Byzantine players are those who know several build orders to take full advantage of the flexible tech tree.

[@ethanlim3222]

"For a historically orthodox civilisation~" I saw what you did there, Spirit!

[@OwnedbyBazooka]

I feel like I can just see him smirk while he delivers these dry humor jokes lol

[@arnavnandan]

I didn't understand what he meant

[@FirstnameLastname-sw1ry]

@@arnavnandan Byzantines were Greek, who were Orthodox. SotL just used word-play between something that is literally Orthodox and orthodox (standard play) and having to use non-orthodox strategies (think, heterodox). Just a fun play with words. :)

[@arnavnandan]

@@FirstnameLastname-sw1ry ohh. Thanks for telling me (now I can score 100 in language test)

[@chingamfong]

Not enough people are talking about SotL's sponsor messages. So far, he has come up with these hilarious website names: Spirit of the Lawn Spirit of the Draw Spirit of the Paw Spirit of the Jaw

[@eristaviserbia]

Spirit of the Prawn (Sushi restaurant) 😂

[@LynER1992]

Spirit of the Raw 😐

[@micahbush5397]

Crow-removal business: Spirit of the Caw.

[@seidmadr2024]

Independent quality assurance: Spirit of the Flaw

[@Lotiras92]

Archery Courses: Spirit of the Bow

[@gravity8120]

13:43 This point has always stuck with me. In Age of Kings, every civilization was designated as either an Offensive or Defensive civ, but only 2 (Byzantines and Teutons) were actually considered Defensive. Then came The Conquerors, where each civilization was given a different title to correlate with their strengths. But while Teutons became the Infantry Civilization, Byzantines stayed as the Defensive Civilisation. And I always found that impressive.

[@VRichardsn]

The OGs

[@meeeeeeeeeeee]

I remember reading the manual and wondering what the point of the offensive/defensive designation was when nearly everything was offensive.

[@Drrobverjones]

I honestly had the Byzantines as my favorite when I was younger because they had the least red Xs in the tech tree of any civ. At least, back in age of kings they did. I had no clue what upgrades did what, but I did know they were good

[@jagovalkparkietje]

Damn. I was not the only one searching for the one with the most techs apparently.

[@sethalbrecht2530]

Lol same! Sat and counted all of the techs for each civ on the tech tree sheet that came with the game, then picked the one with the highest

[@freekmulder3662]

Haha this is the reason my best mate always choose Byzantines

[@ΣταύροςΚολοκοτρώνης]

The chinese have 1 more tech :)

[@Booklat1]

I was so young when I started playing aoe II and I didn't speak english so Byzantines seemed like the best civ to me since I also didn't understand that civ bonuses also existed.

[@ethanlim3222]

Those cataphracts pack quite a punch!

[@Teinve]

Better to fire and retreat than face them toe-to-toe!

[@Neon-Lines]

@@Teinve like any pro player would do, that's why Byzantines suck in competitive

[@LeicaFleury]

@@Neon-Lines What do you mean suck they're picked in every tournament 11 haven't you seen jordan or nicov win with them against hera and viper?

[@guilhermebraga9773]

@@Neon-Lines yeah, but some pro players are really good with them. It is the majority of Byzantine players that usually suck, because the civ attracts plenty of beginners

[@Neon-Lines]

@@guilhermebraga9773 is that why they never pick or ban them in important matches?

[@ridempaix6656]

I've been waiting for this for 5 years. Always has been my favourite civ. Always will be! Even as a veteran player.

[@andyanimacion3d]

Me too, holeheartedly agreed, it's the most balanced well rounded civ for any map or game style. Other civs tend to be more specialized, but Byz can do it all great, cheap and hardy.

[@ellatgrasso2096]

Yeah they really are the do it all civ. Good defense, good offense, Uber strong unique unit, good trash, good eco, solid on water. They're the most versatile civ in the game.

[@martinnolhaf3151]

Based Rome Enjoyer!!!

[@triconex4816]

I remember in AoK they were the only civilization that lacked blast furnace. I didn't like them, but after the introduction of a second unique technology (Greek fire, in their case) I really started liking them.

[@JarlFrank]

As a kid playing AoK I liked the Byzantines best because they had the widest unit tree.

[@userneron288]

They should really add Berserkers in their Barracks (like the Condottieri of the Italians) and name them Varangian Guard

[@BasileusHorus]

They are on the AOE 4

[@aqui1ifer]

A shame there isn’t anything to *tempt* you into champions for that full Roman feel, but given historically they moved to Spears/Pikes later on it makes sense

[@Manouil_III]

Every time I face American civs, I train Champions.

[@JewelManDLN069]

An updated overview of my favorite civ Byzantines? Awesome! :D

[@IMortage]

I am always surprised when they are suggested to beginners. They actually require a lot of experience to make best use of. It's their flexibility to react and counter that makes them a good defensive civ, the building HP is only a small defensive boost in comparison. But that's exactly what new players are probably not going to do well. Give a new player the Mayans and tell them how good their eagle warriors and archers are, and they'll probably execute something of a useful strategy. Give them Byzantines and they'll have a hard time choosing a good plan out of many options, especially as it'll be much more variable what a good plan will be for any given game.

[@mbvglider]

Mayans are actually a really good civ because the gameplan is so simple. Make lots of archers, upgrade them, boom, try to build plumes if you can, add siege and infantry, and you’ll lose now and then, but it’s a viable strategy 90% of the time.

[@ArchsageCanas]

Totally agree. Most defensive civilisations lean more into having options to counter what is coming at them and therefore making them inherently more difficult to play. The way I see it is: To play aggressive, you mostly need to know and play your civilisation well. To play defensive, you need to know all 42 civilisations well to brace up against their strengths and then exploit their weaknesses.

[@markburke1396]

I think its because of their unique techs are all passive buffs that are easy to use. examples: all buildings are stronger, Town watch/patrol free, faster firing ships (you can only really make 2 ships so I'm including this and not the cheaper thrash), cheaper Imp. These are all buffs that you will use every single game (with the exception of the fire ships on non-water maps). Beginners aren't competitive and play the game for fun and this civ allows them to make any unit a beginner might like to make e.g. Paladin and there are less techs available that they might not understand e.g. Parthian tactics, thumb ring, siege engineers, bloodlines (even if they do understand these things, they matter alot less at beginner level and won't know the correct timing to get them) kinda like the way Supplies is a noob trap and they always get it at the wrong time only hurting themselves.

[@benrobinson375]

Byzantines are attractive to beginners because they have a very open tech tree; this gives them a chance to try out different unit types and counters. Also beginner players love focusing on defense which the Byzantines excel at.

[@meeeeeeeeeeee]

They can be seen as good for beginners because they don't have an overly specific way to play them, rather you learn about many different strats in one civ. Competitive low elo players wanting to rank up early might do better learning some slightly uncommon but powerful build order in a specialist civ, but those people aren't really beginners.

[@jahnmark2864]

Dude I love your vids so much they were a big reason I started playing the game. (Also side note I really miss your old intro video/music)

[@user-ld3ny2yp2y]

I love the Byzantines, as a newcomer to AOE2 (discovered it last week) they were the first civ I beat the moderate AI with. Playing defensively early on and massing halberdiers and arbalists to survive, only to overwhelm the AI with trebuchets later on. This game is fantastic and videos like this are such a pleasant add-on, what a great community this game has. So much to learn, so much content on KZbin and so many campaigns to play. Oh and the in-game tutorials are splendid too! I've already played for so many hours and I haven't even touched online matchmaking yet. The first game I played was with my girlfriend and me vs the easy AI, it took 3 hours until we finally decided to attack this poor AI with hundreds upon hundreds of units and we were surprised it hadn't amassed a legendary army for itself. I love this game so much, it's my first time giving a RTS game a chance and MAN did I start out with the best possible one.

[@JawaThePwn]

The lower difficulty AIs never seem to mass up. So what I do when I'm playing with a team of friends vs AIs, is increase the difficulty, but reduces the amount of AIs. So, in your case, instead of fighting 2 Easy AIs, it seems better to fight just 1 Moderate AI, etc. Because the AIs are not programmed to go above certain supply, even if they have the space, and it scales by the difficulty.

[@Cra3ier]

Welcome to aoe2! Just do one civ at a time, don’t be overwhelmed by so many civs, just learn the unit counters and basic build order can lead you a long way. Keep spending your resources, don’t get housed, keep building villagers, and have fun!

[@randomturd1415]

I'm just glad peeps are still discovering this amazing game, makes me feel less of a boomer at the age of 20😅

[@dj_koen1265]

When you are 20 you are pretty much a teen Wait till you are 24 and how much of a boomer you will feel then

[@Latinblood59]

How are you liking it still? A year later

[@Solid-Shizzard]

Byzantine more like Basedtine

[@williamangga6164]

Gotta pump up those Chadaphracts

[@ailius1520]

Kind of funny how AoE1 was too early for the Romans and AoE2 was too late for them.

[@azh698]

That's why they made Rise of Rome.

[@anonvideo738]

It was still fine to put the huns in AOE2 though.

[@drosberg3680]

Just in terms of accurate chronology, there really should have been an entire game between AoE1 and AoE2. Civilizations like the Sumerians or Hittites had already been gone for thousands of years by the time classical Greece and Rome were just getting started, and they really shouldn't have been in the same game. Julius Caesar is chronologically much closer to Charlemagne than he is to Ramesses II.

[@vanders4198]

But the Byzantines are Romans so AoE2 isn't too late for them.

[@vanders4198]

@@mb_entity They are. It's a literal fact.

[@TeeBar420]

I love that the byzantines don't have regular units, just counters and counter-counters

[@Bloodark124]

They have FU Arbalesters though

[@kevinfogle7929]

​@@Bloodark124 yeah, and gunpowder units, siege rams, open tech tree, I don't get the hate

[@carlosascanio7143]

reminds me of egyptians in age of mythology where most of their human units are hard counters of something else

[@Bloodark124]

@@kevinfogle7929 I think people don’t like defensive or Jack-of-all-trade as a concept. People prefer to be flashy, or one dimensionally powerful specialised in a thing maybe two. E.g. people love franks for paladins, Britons for range fights, mongols for powerful mangudai…and while people do love cataphracts, it’s incredibly expensive and at its core still a counter unit, and not a power unit like paladin. You simply don’t win just by massing cataphracts (good luck doing that in 1v1), cataphracts alone just won’t win you games. You can’t kill bases with them.

[@kevinfogle7929]

@@Bloodark124 I get that, but historically armies have fought with a combined arms approach. Also, spam the special unit games are boring. I mean sure, everyone wants to win, but it is a game. It should be fun.

[@caldow196]

Last time I was this early the Theodosian Walls were standing

[@ondrejmrazek8209]

Same, except in my time zone it is afternoon :)

[@darkdill]

Here's something I think you need to do, Spirit: Add in an "S rank" for civs that are #1 in a category. For instance, Celts would have the S-rank at Siege, Goths would be S-rank at Infantry, and so forth. This would allow you to give more A+'s out, while still retaining a category for best-in-category that doesn't confuse people.

[@DCdabest]

I'm surprised they don't have Heavy Scorpion considering the Romans literally invented the Scorpio Ballista. I guess it would prove too strong to pair with Cataphracts but I would be curious to see what adding it would do to the balance of the civ.

[@williamangga6164]

I wish they added heavy scorpions for Byz as it is appropriate like you said. Since they lacked siege engineers it is not a strong options to pick often. Just to complete the set and make tech tree look pretty :)

[@DCdabest]

@@williamangga6164 I can see a situation where it might get a bit oppressive for infantry civs who are already going to have a hard time against Byzantines because of fully upgraded Arbalests and Cataphracts.

[@lazthegreat10]

Why would it be too strong? Not sure it benefits them that much at all. No one uses that heavy scorp anyway

[@Saltyoven]

The only civs that really use scorpions are Khmer not not many other civs tbh.

[@Davtwan]

Considering the Heavy Scorpion doesn’t get a lot of love, I think it should be added to the Byzantines just for this. :B

[@SRV2166]

Disagree on B+ Archer rating. The civ has FU arbalest and cheaper FU skirms as well. CA isn’t that common anyways. IMO it should have been atleast A- Otherwise good video

[@TrafalgarDlaw-um9ef]

Yes.. And about Calvary it is A at least cause basically no counter for their cataphracts

[@genericpersonx333]

Always saw Byzantines as an excellent trainer civilization. Not saying Byzantines are the best civilization, but when you are a newer player, their virtues really start to shine. You learn good generic play skills while having a lot of bonuses that help you do that, rather than bonuses that encourage you to play in very specific and/or different ways from other civilizations. 1.) No unusual economic bonuses that push for a different build order at start like Chinese or Huns. Your economic bonuses are later savings, not immediate boosts to production, so you are encouraged to focus on a generic build order that will work with most other civilizations. 2.) Increased HP for buildings for free gives players more time to react to attacks on buildings, especially their starting town center if rushed. 3.) Cheaper basic counter-units means players are more likely to be able to afford the counters as needed, making common rushes against Byzantines more difficult. When archers, scouts, and knights are the main threat, having four skirmishers or spearmen instead of three, or being able to afford one a moment faster while waiting for resources to come in helps a lot. 4.) Fireships are very effective in feudal and castle age, so a boost to fireships for Byzantines translates to better ability to contest water against most civilizations. This allows players to devote fewer resources to water while contesting it, making it easier to find a balance of water/land economy. 5.) Free town watch/patrol gives players early warning of trouble, but also gives new players better opportunity to learn maps, as they can more quickly see the differences in resource placement around town center and such. 6.) Cataphracts are excellent for practicing micromanagement of cavalry, because they are punished less for bad management. Failure to pull your horsemen back from that enemy spear counterattack hurts less than doing the same with knights or scouts. 7.) Lower cost for advancing to Imperial Age means more likelihood of advancing to Imperial Age, meaning more experience with Imperial Age technologies that some players may not see often because the battle is over in castle age. 8.) A broad range of technologies means experience with those technologies. 9.) Monk heal won't win you the game, but will help you recover from mistakes. Get your cataphracts beaten up, you can heal them back rather than panicking over seeing all those red bars. Really takes the stress off the newer player while they learn how expendable units really are and become more comfortable letting units get killed.

[@couchpotatoe91]

6) One does not retreat cataphracts from spearmen. :D

[@Max-we3gc]

Excatly thats why I love them. You learn all moves and unit compositions while being punished less for your mistakes.

[@ethanpappas2502]

Since you're redoing some of your older civ overviews, can we have a Persian civ overview next please?

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

No, Turks next!

[@unoriginalcopy9844]

yes please

[@creepy3ric]

Whenever I have Byzanthines I forget about the Imp discount and still collect 1000 food and 800 gold before clicking up

[@dj_koen1265]

For me its the other way around Whenever i play another civ I struggle to reach imp Its such an underrated bonus imo

[@alexwild760]

Wow first time I see someone mention Byzantine fast gunpowder. I love that strategy

[@hydrargyruschaldaecus2572]

Historically, it's kind of weird that the Byzantines lacks Parthian tactics since they would be the most likely among European civs to adopt it, with them being mortal enemies. In the Gothic war, ERE horse archers posed quite a threat, and the Goths really couldn't deal with them due to their unfamiliarity with Eastern warfare.

[@meeeeeeeeeeee]

Meanwhile the Persians lack good cav archers ingame. And Byzantines don't know how to breed good horses.

[@stevencolor3389]

One thing you didn't mention about team games is their defensive boosts helping out, offsetting some of the short comings of them or their teammates. 3 Parts come to mind: 1: If you can get the frontline spawn as a byzantine you can buy alot of extra boom time for the backline player(s) due to your extra building health and cheap counter units meaning you can hold out with less support for longer, buying more time for the backline to boom and enter the fight as a bigger threat instead of having to slow the boom inorder to save the teammate(s) who is under attack 2: Synergizing with teammates/covering their weakness's, for an example, the portuges are strong in long games as their fetoria's provide infinite stone to build/repair defenses and castles, infinite gold to allow for making siege engines, ships and even non trash troops but they get bullied in shorter games as that is 20 pop cap on a building that does not make up for its drain, at 200 pop cap it is 10% of your total pop per building, with a Byzantine teammate doing heavier lifting in the fight, the portugues can have some fetoria's and essentially play mob boss, funding their allies. One of my buddies plays them and builds almost max fetoria's possible and funds the 2-3 of us in our wars, this boost also helps offset the cost of cataphracts and lets the byzantine make the most of their extra tower and castle hp. 3: Fortifying/ saving a teammate, the cheap units allows the byzantine to throw a swarm of troops into a falling city in an attempt to beat the attackers back outside and the extra building hp helps them seal breaches in the original defenses or build a new defensive position that can hold. I once had a match of ages during a land party where my teammate has attacked by my dad who also plays byzantines, between using cheaper camel hordes to smash the trebuchets and my stronger defenses, I kept my ally alive while another teammate dropped my dad's allies and forced him to abandon the siege.

[@Otomokol]

great overview! just wanted to point out koreans are also officially called a defensive civ, defensive and naval.

[@ethribin4188]

I find it so interesting that, such a flexible civ with so many powerfull bonuses, ultimatly is held back by lacking 2 techs. Bloodline and Blast Furnace. Lacking those two techs hurt this civ so much that its literaly those techs that are keeping them in check.

[@crimson_grog172]

I think that goes to show just how important (and dominant) cavalry are. Not taking game balance into account though, I would gladly give up my stable units if it meant I could have bloodlines and blast furnace on my cataphracts lol.

[@erwinciam1812]

It's actually 3 techs that keeps them in check. Blast Furnace, Bloodlines and Siege Engineers. Giving Byzantines Blast Furnace will give them FU Champion and FU discounted Halberdier and also allow Elite Cataphract to two shot FU Halberdier. Giving them Bloodlines will open up all their stable option and you can also use their paladin and discounted camel with Bloodlines in TG. And giving them Siege Engineers, will get them to have Onager with SE which is pretty solid against massed arbalester in early imp and Bombard Cannon with SE is again pretty solid lategame unit.

[@lilben4184]

@@crimson_grog172 You'd be able to count on one hand the units that massed FU Catas wouldn't win against. War Elephants, Boyars, microed Cav Archers, microed Aztec monks? I think that's it, every single other unit in the game would get trounced.

[@spectre9065]

I don't mind lack of Blast Furnace, the other blacksmith techs are more important. Lack of bloodlines hurts their early game though, since they can't Scout or Knight rush well. Their stable feels blend, none of their options are bad per se, but none are spectacular either. Siege Engineers is nice to have, but Byzantines already have Bombard Cannon and Skirmisher to counter archers and other siege.

[@downhillchaos3012]

Im so happy you added the into back, I've missed it so much!

[@grantbeardsley278]

It seems the level of success for a Byzantine player is measured by match-up knowledge; they can't outright overpower civs very well but they have a counter play for just about anything.

[@Pantelis_Psaroudakis]

My best civ. Thank you for this video! Πάλι με χρόνια με καιρούς, πάλι δικά μας θα' ναι!

[@hennimore1]

Spirit of the Law talking about the Byzantines is the most perfect KZbin video.

[@The_Room_2_Doggys_Revenge]

I'm not convince by the replacement of your Economy rating by a Thrash unit rating, and I'm wondering if you could do without any of those or find another rating because, as was the case with the eco, you already cover in some way the thrash units when looking at each military building...

[@thepersonwhocomentz]

I feel like the Byzantines not doing as well as they could on land maps is at least partly because their castle age UT doesn't do anything for them on maps where water isn't an option. You could argue this saves them a couple hundred food and gold to spend elsewhere, but maybe if Greek Fire gave some kind of additional gameplay-over-historical-accuracy bonus that applied to their land game, you might see them have a more even win rate on closed maps. Maybe it could give their defensive buildings 1 bonus damage vs. Siege? That'd certainly fit their theme.

[@fenrisulvur9390]

Most civs don't pick up their castle age UT until at least late castle age, if at all. Gathering the res for the tech, on top of 650 stone to drop a castle, is a very tall ask, when you have other demands on your eco such as military production, booming, adding a compelmentary unit like siege or monks, adding a university for ballistics, etc. that all have better return on investment than your unique tech. For Byzantines in particular, the unique tech would have to be pretty nasty for it to help them out in the early-to-mid game where they struggle in 1v1's the most.

[@doomdimensiondweller5627]

My idea is giving range to other things. Other things that it could improve the range of are defensive buildings like towers or castles. This makes sense historically as Greek fire was used on these buildings. Also Greek fire was often put into clay grenades and launched at enemies so maybe improved range on Trebuchets. The Byzantines brought the Trebuchet to Europe and some argue that they invented the counter weight Trebuchet.

[@stormrunner4081]

Jack of all trades but a master of none is still better than being super good at one thing but being useless if someone builds a single counter

[@Lightning_Lance]

Idea for an extra intro clip: a castle falls to trebuchet fire followed by paladins charging into the economy. Defending player panics and rings the town bell

[@jefffinkbonner9551]

1:00 and just like that, everything was right with the world again!

[@ivanstrydom8417]

I love the Byzantines their history and their culture, especially how they evolved from the Eastern Roman Empire to the Byzantine Empire, how their architecture, dress, army and weapons evolved to be a mix of Western Greeks and eastern ME/North African cultures. What I would love to see for the Byzantines: Please give us regional/civ accurate unit skins for all the B,A,S units. Either as a purely visible mod/addition or as standard. Add Burning oil as a generic tech for most civs to the university. (Increases defensive arrow fire from castles + 4 attack against rams.) As well as add Tracking,and Cartography back into the game. (More techs and complexity adds more fun adds more small elements to learn and master.) I'd much rather have the Persians or Byzantines get Free HC and Free WB. To me, vast empires such as the Persian Empire and the Byzantine Empires (Bordering the Fertile Crescent) should have an eco focus since their administration of their vast empires were so good. Where ''lesser'' Empires and Kingdoms situated in cold , barren regions that focused more on raids like the Goths and Norse should have a unit focus such as Cheap infantry (Goths) and cheap trash + Beserks slowly generate gold when attacking buildings. (Vikings) Vikings. We need a completely new architecture set for the Vikings (That resemble their beautiful Norse church wonder) The main emphasis is on the long boats and their over use of Arbs, the rest are not to important and can be left as is. Have Vikings lose free hand cart + lose Arbalerster but instead they get Halbedier,(NB!) have their longboats be able to attack as well as transport units (Infantry/vils/monks/kings only) (loses transport ships but they have non attacking Longboats in feudal age.) and gift them cheap trash units Halbs + strong Angon Skirmishers.They could also give the berserkers a new trait that allows them to accumulate Food or Gold when damaging an enemy building thus aiding in their ecco in an accurate and interesting way. Castles cost change to 450 stone and 300 wood (Wood castles have lower HP) OR... Since they get Halbs change their unique tech Chieftains to allow Beserks to be made in TCs even after all castles have been lost. I’d enjoy raiding coastlines and rivers using longboats to transport infantry and Angon skirms to the shores of my enemies. I'd say give them other buffs to help in the late game, for instance to have their eco speciality exchanged with the Byzantines speciality. The Vikings came from a cold, barren mountainous/fjord covered boggy area, Norway,Sweden,Scandinavia where agriculture was highly difficult to maintain, thus their focus was on fishing, but as their culture and cities grew, it became a necessity to raid other shores/peoples in order to survive and thrive. Thus they started to use their brilliant longboats to conquer the northern seas and raid countless European and Mediterranean kingdoms. So I was wandering, why the devs gave the Vikings (Which literally mean Raiders) such a strong economy by means of free handcart and wheelbarrow? Where the Byzantines/Persians are famous for already having a well established society and Empire by the time of the Middle ages (They had wheelbarrow even before the Western Roman empire fell), with a professional standing army and immense economy and trade. (For such a strong wealthy Empire, why do they have to focus on Trash units in game?) For me, the two civs will be perfectly compensated to have those two traits switch. The Byzantines get an ecco upgrade like free wheelbarrow and the Vikings get cheap trash units. Now, combine that with Viking Wood architecture Castles: Castles cost change to 450 stone and 300 wood (Wood castles have lower HP but they can create a lot more of them due to less stone cost) OR... Since they get Halbs change their unique tech Chieftains to allow Beserks to be made in TCs even after all castles have been lost. That will always allow Vikings to create Beserkes in large numbers and have cheap Halbs and Angon/Frakka skirms to back them up throughout the game and into the late game. (Celt skirms also need a buff) No need for arbs. Then you take your Berserks+ trash , get onto your longboats and go Viking/Raid the enemy shores. (Without wasting wood nor pop space on Transport ships) They could also give the berserkers a new trait that allows them to accumulate Food or Gold when damaging an enemy building thus aiding in their ecco in an accurate and interesting way. Peasant:’’If Vikings lose arb they will be useless in imp. FALSE!!!!! Proof: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHXHmHSaral1jtE Watch both the 1st and 2nd games. VIKINGS SHOULD LOSE ARBS!!! Byzantines. In turn have Byzantines lose Hand cannoneer, bombard cannon and bombard tower , [to have them not become intensely OP and these forms of warfare was much more used by their neighbours (Italy) and enemies (Turks)].(If WB+HC goes to Persia then no need for Byzantines to loose gunpowder) Trash becomes more expensive and Imp becomes more expensive but Civ gets free wheel burrow and free hand cart. (For even when they were still the Eastern Roman empire, they already had WB+HC)(If Persia gets Free HC+Free WB then Byzantines retain their cheap camels) Byzantines get a unique tech in the Feudal age barracks: Justinian Reforms - Sword line +1 Melee or Pierce armour from castle age. (Optional) Enables the technology of Varangian Guard from the Feudal age. In Feudal age , Byzanitne army (As well as Viking allies) gain access to a special unit in the Barracks called the Varangian Guard. - Expensive , slow moving but difficult to convert with a limited build amount. Since the Byzantines are a Defensive civ, the Varangian Guards can have a high attack boost when in the vicinity of a TC or Castle but outside a certain radius from these buildings the VG should lose the strong attack bonus and just be as strong as a normal Man at Arms/Long Sword/Champion. (Highly loyal guards of the Emperor) To defend against early rushes , but since they are expensive,slow and limited, you will have to think strategically as to when and where to deploy/station them. Unique Castle techs remain Logistica. Greek fire - Fireships damage adjacent ships. (Loses the useless+1 range buff) Please give Byzantines Camel trade carts and a proper architecture something like this will be perfect: [Steam Workshop::[IA] Catbarf's Byzantine Buildings V2 (WiP IA Version)] since 80% of their empire and trade stretched across the deserts of Anatolia, the Levant and North Africa. Byzantine ships should also acquire beautiful coloured Lateen sails.

[@Bonanza99994]

could be very nice to see an change with the Vikings as we saw with the indians Making 2 or 3 differant viking civs as Danes, Fins and Norwegian or something like that And then have their own architecture and as u said wood castles and transport longboats

[@ivanstrydom8417]

@@Bonanza99994 🙂 See my Byzantine complete build and Viking split sir. Ill post them in the comments . Have a good day sir.

[@HistoricalWeapons]

Cataphracts weaker to arrows than knights who don’t have horse armour is just hilarious to me

[@sashidharan1192]

There is an historic accuracy in Byzantine has the best fire ship than the chola fire ships utilising Greek fire.. Can you maje civ review for other Indian civs, Bengalis, Dravidians, Gujara and indians

[@Saltyoven]

Probably going to wait until the buffs/nerfs after the patch before writing the script.

[@parthn-musicforwork4789]

Nobody: Spirit of the law: But keep in mind, the Japanese still have the best Halberdiers, partially because Byzantines miss the notable final attack upgrade. 😜

[@hansoskar1911]

They playpattern fo byzantines feels really nice. usually agressive civs try to either overpower defenders in the midgame which is hard due to the cheaper counterunits or they produce enough army to threaten and then follow it up with a faster imp tthan a kinda generic civ that just trades well on units. (The defender cant stop producing but the agressor can) But here the byzaninte fast imp comes in and usually means you are fester even with a weaker eco. Then your castles are laughably better than the opponents (which usually lack upgrades) and more HP also menas better and cheaper repairing. No civ really _likas_ facing byzantines even though they have hardly any extremely good matchups.

[@CG-eh6oe]

Two things I would add to the +40% hp vs architecture discussion: -There is a pretty specific, but important case in which architecture is very important: Units that deal a bit of anti building damage, e.g. saracen archers, indian cav or tarkans. The combination of melee armor and building armor really helps to stop those units from dealing too much damage. An elite tarkan does 22 dmg/hit to a byzantine house, but only 14dmg to a generic one, making the generic one last a lot longer. -Architecture reduces dmg taken, therefore making it easier to outrepair the damage of attacking units. Overall i still prefer the byz bonus because you get it so much earlier, but in a post imp scenario, its not a big advantage.

[@eristaviserbia]

Ah, the Rhomaioi! Glorious continuators of Rome, staunch defenders against barbarian hordes, ingenious diplomats and engineers, deep contemplators of the Divine mysteries of Christ. The only 1000 year Reich to have truly lasted 1000 years!

[@DCdabest]

And they would have got away with it too; if it weren't for those meddling Franks!

[@Randomvideos-tz9su]

You should some more things like win rate in games lasting 20, 30, 40 minutes, win rate against different civilizations etc

[@igncom1]

I love any nation that is all about large armies of cheap units. Why have a small elite core that I need to micro manage when I can attack move with wave after wave of my spearmen?

[@LynER1992]

Cataphract: Anti Anti-cavalry Infantry Cavalry Chu-ko-nu: Anti Anti-archer Archer Next DLC should include an Anti Anti-gunpowder Gunpowder Unit

[@xxxcripyxxx]

something to counter condotiero ???

[@Sunlight91]

For more historical accuracy Byzantine should start in Castle Age.

[@RazorWinter]

"Because they are romans" I only learned Byzantines were romans after 10 years playing this game 🤣

[@seltin1988]

i love the byz civ. wish we could get the legionary in the barracs..... we need more roman thems :)

[@angelenriquechavezponce1629]

So basically the byzantines are the best civilization on the whole game. Got it. They hold a special place on my heart so even if they're not the best they'll still be my favorite civ 😁

[@ohiocoder8313]

hey SOTL, do you stream on twitch ever? or do you have plans to?

[@mekelius]

Byzantines might have been orthodox, but they were also youknow... byzantine. So having funky game plans is pretty much spot on.

[@micahbush5397]

The discounted Spearmen, Skirmishers, and Camel Riders are an interesting choice for this civilization, given that the Byzantine Empire, for much of its history, had a reduced population to draw soldiers from, and Greece and Anatolia are very rocky, which is not favorable terrain for camels. Most likely, the choice was made to reflect the fact that the Byzantines made frequent use of foreign mercenaries to supplement their army.

[@JacoDeltaco]

YES YES YES THE INTRO IS BACK

[@Davtwan]

Honestly, I think the discounted Skirms can help with a weak but effective Flush where you disrupt the enemy’s farming economy. Apparently damaging farms screws with the villagers harvesting on them. It’s not much, but it’s something.

[@Corundrom]

*Byzantines perform better with a few units replaced by monks *Byzantines rarely replace a few units with monks *Byzantines are slightly below average I wonder how connected these facts are

[@kikenriacoacosta6919]

As a Byzantine Pplayer, I am currently so happy because of the recent Byzantine attention. Amazing video!

[@IHeliosI]

So when I was little I always figured "more hp?? That's the best stat cause units die when it goes to zero!" But now it seems that a cheaper unit is more valuable cause it cost less to create whether it dies or not. I'd love to see a video comparing something like Berber cheaper Cavaliers vs Frank better HP cav or Teuton more armored cavalry and see what ultimately wins in the end

[@guilhermebraga9773]

Curious how popular they are among new players. At least the ones I talked too. They were my favorites and my cousins liked them too. I know this does not have any statistic value, though

[@thephilosophyofhorror]

You forgot to mention possibly the greatest bonus of playing as Byzantine: you are playing as Byzantine ^^

[@DrRobGilles]

The Byzantines are a civ that most people wouldn’t complain about it they got even more buffs... lol because as he said. We all loved them as kids. Because we loved how many options that had and who didn’t love building 100 bombard towers. Truthfully the romans could use a little push especially since some of the newer civs have been power crept a little. That Greek fire tech is useless. Have it buff something. Maybe boost trash units armor or attack for a cost. You can even further decrease the cost of cataphracts. Or give them some kind of eco bonus. Besides just the discounts.

[@doomdimensiondweller5627]

The meta has basically evolved in such a way to nerf the Byzantines.

[@bwilson774]

If it were up to me I would reduce the cost of the elite cataphract upgrade, and add bloodlines. They honestly seem a little underpowered, even for the theme of being a defensive civ which is a shame because they otherwise have great bonuses.

[@Hemdael]

Byzantine win rate is directly tied to being Purple or not. I mean if your not being purple Byzantines, why even pick them? :)

[@Aaahrg]

Nice coincidence. Didnt play AoE2 much recent days but CK3 and I am Byzantine Emperor now (killed and slept my way there from duchess). It spiked an interesst and I think im doing a AoE2 match this weekend as well.

[@HazmanFTW]

Spirit of the Jaw! :D I'm still waiting on your other website Spirit of the Draw

[@jasv49]

And his website about birds, Spirit of the Caw

[@bwilson774]

The cost of Logistica needs to be halved from what it is now, and I'd probably cut 200 food and 200 gold from the cost of the elite upgrade to make cataphracts viable.

[@divicospower9112]

A- for their infantry. So the Spanish barrack deserve a A, the Celtic one a A+ and the Burmese one a... A what?

[@ethribin4188]

Byzantennes, to my experiance, are extreemly flexible and able to outlive their opponent. But they are extreemly bad at actually beating their opponent...

[@viethung9419]

I thought this was a video from 7 years ago ..... I hope you guys understand what I say.

[@2MeatyOwlLegs]

Anti Anti-Cavalry Infantry Cavalry will be my new way of describing the Cataphracts to new players for sure.

[@meeeeeeeeeeee]

Byz is playing 8D chess in a lot of ways

[@abhishekjain3148]

7:12 because anti-anti-cavalry-cavalry was not confusing enough for you anymore lol

[@MrKhaos0001]

Sending your cataphracts with cheap camels to deal with paladins looks a really good composition hard to counter.

[@LordVelari]

Byzantines in history: built the Theodossian Walls, Hagia Sophia, and numerous cathedrals, monasteries, and castles Byzantines in AoE2: lacks masonry and architecture

[@ANSELAbitsxb]

Imo they have the ugliest architecture, I even rate hausa better.

[@youcanthandlethetruth5433]

They get better building bonus for free.its like celts not getting squires

[@Spiror]

Byz need bloodlines and blast furnace and siege engineer…..after will be ok 👌

[@MrAllmightyCornholioz]

Οι Βυζαντινοί είναι φοβεροί!

[@o2Tenka]

0:21 Probably because they speak pretty, that was my reason lol

[@robmorgan1989]

Such an accurate statement to see they are every players favourite at some point.

[@flamingmuffin666]

Byzantines need something, it’s bugged for a long time but they lack something to me. How about a unique wall to fit their defensive civ nature and to be historically accurate Theodosian wall Equivalent or better than fortified wall stat wise, but it gives nearby units a bonus to range and/or attack damage and/or disadvantage to attacker. Hell, make it easier to repair (1 villager is 2x, 2 villagers is 4x, 3 is 6x the repair rate) which references when an earthquake severely damaged the wall, and and army was marched to attack the vulnerable city only to find that they Wall was repaired in an insanely short period of time. That would be a clearly and uniquely defensive feature exemplifying a “defensive civilization”. And may fix my gripe with the civ as is.

[@randomturd1415]

Easy to repair walls++

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

For me it was viable swordsmen, and now DE solved it for me. No final weapon upgrade, but they have the rest of the tech, and cheaper support units.

[@cleanerben9636]

rush houses near your opponent's resources. They're harder to remove and benefit from the free town watch.

[@funny_liquid7111]

You really went out of your way to make that anti anti confusing, they counter all infantry so they are an "anti infantry cavalary" Nice nod to the Chu ko nu in the Chinese overview, "The anti anti archer, archer ".

[@dj_koen1265]

A byzantine civ overview in 2022 ? What sorcery is this

[@EngPheniks]

in original version, the Byzantine buildings were designed in the Middle Eastern type with a mosque like structure as the monastery which is quite inaccurate. But now with the Mediterranean style coming up, the Byzantines, Italians, Spanish and Portuguese share the same architecture.

[@erwinciam1812]

Such a flexible civ that is being kept in check by missing some late game tech. It's actually 3 techs that keeps them in check. Blast Furnace, Bloodlines and Siege Engineers. Giving Byzantines Blast Furnace will give them FU Champion and FU discounted Halberdier and also allow Elite Cataphract to two shot FU Halberdier. Giving them Bloodlines will open up all their stable option and you can also use their paladin and discounted camel with Bloodlines in TG. And giving them Siege Engineers, will get them to have Onager with SE which is pretty solid against massed arbalester in early imp and Bombard Cannon with SE is again pretty solid lategame unit.

[@Manouil_III]

I would give them access to Heavy Scorpion tho.

[@GarkKahn]

I always loved roman history And during the time i had history class about eastern rome i got my full version of aoe2 with BYZANTINES on it! My excitement was higher than the himalayas Also i learned about bulgarians and i wished they could've been added in the game And of course that was the only civ i wanted from de and *wish granted*

[@Jondiceful]

My takeaway is that the Byzantines are a jack-of-all-trades civilization with special emphasis on defense. The problem is two-fold. 1) being a jack-of-all-trades gives you great flexibility, but that same flexibility makes it harder to focus your strengths in a powerful synergism. Specialty civilizations usually outperform generic civs because that focus and powerful synergy can overwhelm the generic civ. 2) the best defense is a good offense. Here the Byzantine's are better equipped to let you come to them and try to wear you down before counterattacking. But with no specific offensive bonus, their inevitable offensive is going to be more expensive. And then there's the whole axiom that the defender has to win every battle, while the attacker needs only to get lucky once. Playing defense can be a good play, but it's a gamble against your opponent's luck with each attack representing another roll of the dice. If instead of being good at healing the Byzantine monks were better at conversion, then their defensive play could become a bigger gamble for the attacker than the defender. But that's my take.

[@anilkarakaya9343]

Their problem is being very boring with grind and no power units besides arbalest

[@justdracir8197]

Ah yes the cannon gally. The thing i think the most of as anti-cavalry.

[@viajesargentinos8750]

I prefer the normal aoe2 conquerors game. No the definitive edition. Too many bonuses, some not at all connected to real history. Too many weird and complicated bonuses as well, like as they didn't know what to add more. I hope you do some videos about.

[@etherraichu]

You put way too much effort into this. You should've just said "Best civ in the game, and always will be." since it is. But I guess you wouldn't have gotten as many views that way!

[@ivanstrydom8417]

Vikings Civ rework NB Norse/Vikings Pagan, early aggression, raiding using Infantry, cheap trash,Strong Agnon Skirms, transported in longboats. Architecture: Norse architecture that resemble their beautiful Norse church wonder. UU castle: Berserk (infantry) - Unique infantry unit that slowly heals itself. (Dane axe + round shield on back) Can repair Longboats UU Dock: Longboat (warship) - Unique ship that fires multiple arrows (from castle age) as well as transport foot units (Infantry/skirms/vils/monks/kings only) In feudal age Longboats can’t fire arrows. Longboats transporting skirmishers gain added pierce armour and attack. Feudal age longboats transporting skirmishers gains an attack. UT Imp: Chieftains Longforts - Beserkers can be trained in docks. UT castel: Berserkergang (Berserks regenerate faster) Civ bonus1: Dane Geld:Skirmishers, Pikemen, Halberdiers cost -25% Civ bonus2: Infantry and skirms +20% hit points starting in Feudal Age Civ bonus3:Warships+fishing ships cost -15% Feudal Age, -15% Castle Age, -20% Imperial Age Civ bonus4: When infantry destroys an eco building 100 of the connected resource gets looted and added to your stockpile. Lumber camp = 100 Wood Mill = 100 food Dock = 100 Food Mining Camp = 100 gold + 200 Stone Market = 300 Gold Monastery = 500 gold TC = 500 gold If allied to Byzantines, both civs gain access to: the technology of Varangian Guard from the Feudal age. In Feudal age , Byzantine army (As well as Norse allies) gain access to a special unit in the Barracks called the Varangian Guard. - Expensive , slow moving with a limited build amount. Since the Byzantines are a Defensive civ, the Varangian Guards have a high attack boost when in the vicinity of a TC or Castle but outside a certain radius from these buildings the VG lose the strong attack bonus and are just as strong as a normal Man at Arms/Long Sword/Champion. (guards of the Emperor) To defend against early rushes , but since they are expensive,slow and limited, you will have to think strategically as to when and where to deploy/station them. (Automatically upgrades with each age) If allied to the Franks, Norse gain access to Throwing axemen in the Castle. Team Bonus: Arson becomes available in the feudal age. (Civs whom did not have access to arson now do gain access to arson) Barracks: Champion Up to long sword - Round shield + small war axe 2handed sword to Champion - Round Shield + sword Halb - Round shield spear line Stable: Light cav AR: Elite Skirm - Angon Skirms (does slightly more damage to villagers) archer SW: Siege ram Siege onager scorpion Dock: Fire galley War galley Heavy Demo Transport ship UU - Longboat (warship) - Unique ship that fires multiple arrows (from castle age) as well as transport foot units (Infantry/vils/monks/kings only) In feudal age Longboats can’t fire arrows. Longboats transporting skirmishers gain added pierce armour and attack. Feudal age longboats transporting skirmishers gains an attack. No shipwrite Pagan Temple: No Redemption No atonement No Theocracy No Illumination No Herrecy Blacksmith: No plate boarding armour University: No keep No BBT No Siege engineers No fortified wall Don’t gain access to Livestock penn unless allied to the Swedes. No crop Rotation Wonder: Borgund Stave Church Swedes/Kalmar Union Christian , late game focus, expensive units , using Hand cannoneers, Arbs, Knights + warhammer plated infantry to crush their enemies. Architecture: Current ‘’Viking set’’. Kalmar castle Visby/Gotland Castle Monnestary - Lund Cathedral UU castle: Plated war hammer infantry (Heater shield + one handed war hammer) Slightly stronger than a longsword (Regular) and Champion (Elite) but does bonus damage vs other Swedish units (To depict the numerous civil wars within the Kalmar union) Weak vs Cav + gunpowder, average vs archers, strong vs siege + buildings + infantry , very strong vs other Swedish units except for cavalry. UT Castel:Danish Reformation - Swordline + Knight line gain + 25HP UT Imp: Vryborg bang - All guard towers become upgraded to BBT and when a BBT gets destroyed , it explodes and inflicts area damage around it. (To allied and enemy forces) Sallet helmet - sword line + arbs gain +1 melee armour Civ bonus1: Pete houses - Houses built on grass or snow terrain cost - 50% wood. Civ bonus2:Torps - Houses built next to Berries and woodlines increases villager collection rates of these resources. Civ bonus3:Burkals - Hunt generates the same amount of gold as they do food (Selling of furs) Civ bonus 4:House of Vasa - if allied to Poland you gain access to Winged Hussaria Team Bonus: Elk/Reindeer can be bred in the livestock penn wich provides more food (and more gold for the Swedes) in cold /winter maps Barracks: Kiteshield ,nasal helm swordsmen up to Long sword Two handed swordmen - Plate armoured Heater shield swordmen Spearmen - Kite Shield - Pikemen - Heater shield ,Halb - Plated halberdier no shield Stable: Cavalier wearing plate armour and Sallet helmet Light cav No husbandry AR: Arb Handcannonner Elite skirm SW: BBC Onager Ram Dock: Gallion Fire ship Demo ship University: No Keep Wonder: Uppsala Cathedral Historical battle: Battle of Brunkeberg 1471 AD. Campaign in the Levant with the Norwegian Crusades under Sigurd the Crusader 1115 AD Siege of Sidon

[@niki75]

It is baffling to me that Byzantines get Cav Archers and heavy Cav Archers. I guess it makes sense historically but missing both Bloodlines *and* Parthian Tactics (The omission of which alone in my eyes renders Cav Archers a poor choice) means you'd have to be insane to use them. Unless it's a case of Spanish and Archers where it's so utterly unexpected that your opponent wont see it coming.

[@Manouil_III]

Well, the most important tech for cavalry archers, in order to be a good raiding unit, is the thumb ring, not the other two. And Byzantines have thumb ring available. The other two techs keep cavalry archers a relevant unit for regular combat.

[@niki75]

@@Manouil_III Yes but Cav Archers are so expensive is it really worth teching into them knowing they're not gonna be all that great in the late game? They take bonus damage from both spears and skirms and without Bloodlines they have less HP too. Now you're also missing out on +1 melee and 2 Piece Armor and +2 damage against spearmen as a whole? Doesnt seem all that worthwhile to tech into Cav Archers to me.

[@Manouil_III]

@@niki75 you are gonna tech into thumb ring and blacksmith upgrades anyway, for your skirms most probably. With that in mind, I can see the Byzantine cav. archer like a cheaper steppe lancer, I would say, to raid only (villagers, and trade carts). It could be another proper tool in Byzantine quiver of versatility.

[@niki75]

@@Manouil_III Hmm... Perhaps for castle/early Imp... Since they'll also end up missing Blast Furnace I'd rather focus on things like Paladins/Camels, Siege and the cheap trash

[@Manouil_III]

@@niki75 no blast furnace, cav. archers are archers, they get bracer, which is available.

[@sebazpereyra9431]

I just want to say that I love that you used purple for the byzantines. I play certain civs with certain colors, and in the case of Byzantines, I use purple. It just fits so well.

[@corgamargetokodra7056]

Byzantine Never less than a B in every categorie

[@TheDemonx2000]

infantry B+ for Bohemians but A- for Byzantines and forced mentions to the Japanese...so sad

[@mzil]

Well, I love your videos, but I don't like A+ for defences. They're worse at fast repairing Castles, if it's slow, their buildings are not much dreadful for ships, their defensive Siege (especially without HScorp) will be outranged by the siege with SiegeEng...

[@Mechsrule1]

Yeah! Intro tune!

[@ryanforgo3500]

For the byzantine building HP bonus, i gound it MUCH stronger against big hits but much weaker than university bonuses against normal troops. One example, hussars attacking a castle is legit a troll move as they do 1 damage to a fully upgraded castle, hussar attacking byzantine castle deals 3 damage " that's literally 300% of the damage taken by other full castles" In fact 60 hussars can't take down 1 fully upgraded castle, while they can take down byzantine castle and will only lose about 10 hussars. The problem is that this does not stop at hussars OFC. Any sidden fast hard hitting unit can take down a byzantine castle in a surprise attack. Including paladins which deal 10 dmg per hit. What's more interesting to me is that some few select ranted pierece attack units can deal a lot of dmg to cmbyzantine buildings as because of the missing armor upgrades. In that sense, same as how caraphract are not countered by typical cavs counters but by other things that are not xavs counters like arbalasters. Byzantine buildings are also stronger vs building-counters and weaker vs buildings non-counters. One weird example would be turks hussars i guess? 1 additional pierce armor and dealing shit loads of extra damage.