Old World Army Guide: Empire of Man Overview

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[@BefuddledGentleman]

For anyone wondering why pistoliers have delusions of melee-based grandeur, it's because, in the lore, they are the children of nobility trying to earn their knighthoods. Great video, Rob. You definitely gave me some things to think about.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Appreciate that. That is cool lore

[@wakankinyan]

That desperately needed to be a Ld check rather than a 50/50. I have 10 Pistoliers that will never see the table because of it. I already play Beastmen, I don't need another army that doesn't do what I tell it.

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

@@wakankinyanwith fire and flee, the mounted repeating hand gunners seem necessary now. They don’t have impetuous either.

[@vladimirpalik6697]

@@wakankinyan i get what You are saying but the inability to shoot after march hurts way more.

[@wakankinyan]

​@vladimirpalik6697 yeah, I'm in the weeds on gun based fast cav. I figure some table time with the new movement rules will paint a clearer picture.

[@Gartov77]

I think the important part about greatswords is that they give stubborn to their detachment. You can potentially set up lose-lose charges for your opponent, where if they charge the greatswords, they get countercharged in the flank, but if they charge the detachment, you know its going to fall back in good order, so you can position your greatswords for charging the next turn. Probably a bit magical-christmasland compared to just bringing demigryphs, but could be very rewarding if it works

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

I love that, thats really concious army building and awareness!! THANSK FOR THE COMMENT

[@vladimirpalik6697]

but the worst part about the gretswords is that they are regular infantry. That is either a mistake or a joke.

[@wesadie]

I really like the sound of the Empire army but I bloody well love Rob's presentation of these fantastic guides.

[@bcrouch9371]

There is plenty of great content out there but Square Based really are a cut above in terms of being superbly balanced between insights and the level of detail. Cutting away to rules is especially useful/effective.

[@patrickhill8494]

I love that older WHF art at the beginning 🥲. Happy tear to the eye.

[@KingdomEnfilade]

'the empire roster is very honest'- you've nailed why i was always drawn to them; you could eyeball pretty much any mini on the table and know what its capabilities were. empire always felt like the least cheesy faction

[@janehrahan5116]

For ze lady. I agree.

[@Fenixx117]

I'm painting my Averland scheme state troops right now and have just made a bunch of magnetic movement trays. I just needs some Demigryphs and wizards and I will have an impressive army. 4 cannons, hellblaster, steam tank and tons of cavalry and troops. Flagellants also look epic as a reserve unit to countercharge. TOW looks like so much fun

[@t.j.tomlin6040]

Great job again. I would have liked to see KB or armor bane on the great swords. Like you said I always felt like the Empire is great and has tools no matter what army you might face. I think it takes someone with better generalship to run an Empire army then others. You really have to out think (strategy) your opponent.

[@guilliman1990]

Its part of the reason I want to learn them I started early 8th edition doing dark elves an I had far to much luck for no reason.

[@adamjackson260]

Hell yeah. This is the video I have been waiting for. Empire was the faction that got me into Warhammer in the early 90s. When I returned to the game when I could actually buy an army the Old World had been nuked. I always held out hope so built that army when the kits were affordable, shame I based my new army on rounds and ovals to play Freeguild in AOS, but that is not going to stop me playing. Keep up the great content Rob as always.

[@PRAISE_HASHUT]

A classic army that I think is going to come into its own through the arcane journal. There’s so many cool options they could look into, Marienburg, Middenheim, Nuln, Sylvania, Crusading Knights, Altdorf (maybe as a classic empire army with ogres and halflings ), Dogs of War, Tilea, Estalia, the list could go on and on!

[@voice_of_terra7228]

Didn't they only give two generic options in all released Arcane Journals so far? I think we'll only see something like Knightly Orders X Gunnery School.

[@PRAISE_HASHUT]

@@voice_of_terra7228 they’ve been playing it rather safe with some of the alternative lists, that’s for sure. Hopefully they don’t go vanilla on this one. I can imagine that Cult of Ulric/Midddenheim is a strong contender. I’d personally love Marienburg with some mercenary units and piles be an option. Time will tell…

[@TheLunchBreakPainter]

Another superb army breakdown! You have the best army and rules content on the Old World out there! Smashing work Sir 👏👏👏

[@railwayjade]

I loved this! Thank you! I will be playing my Empire against Tomb Kings in Feb, now I definately cannot wait!

[@badlydrawnhobbyist]

Great series Rob. The format is really engaging and well laid out. Coupled with your enthusiasm for the game 👌🏻. If Empire really is that boring however, this video hasn’t altered my plans for an empire army! 🤓

[@MDDwarf]

Favorite detachments for my Army in the past were either handgunners or crossbowmen on one side to stand and fire, and a detachment of halberdiers to counter charge the enemies flank with their Strength 4 halberds. Spearmen of at least 20 to 30 unit size as the regimental unit. Militia were often good to mass together in a massive unit and push up a flank. Often they are ignored for juicier more tempting targets and will often actually make it to the enemies blocks of ranged troops before they realized they were in trouble. Few archers can withstand a tidal wave of of village drunks and angry townsfolk piling upon them.

[@ForgottenNorthGaming]

You're missing out that Mortar is also good against monsters now it has a high S under hole and D3 wounds - great review overall. In my games the Mortar has been amazing; the AP is brilliant even with the low S in general.

[@aipaca7963]

"You can also mount the priest" - Rob, Jan 2024

[@WillOMyers]

I’ve looked as forward to your review of The Empire as Christmas Thanks Brother

[@mariodeglera8934]

Love the way you are piecing the armies. Keep it up man! Refreshing to see people have not forgotten about Warhammer fantasy of old!!!

[@prlostinshadows]

Great video Rob. Im pleased I managed to control myself and not splurge on Brettonians when I knew in my heart I should be playing Empire. The arcane journal is something to look forward to so that we can choose City State forces effectively.

[@davidbenitez389]

Great content, you guys have been really making me excited to get painting and playing. Was super looking forward to the empire faction overview, great info. Thank you Square Based!

[@michaelf.7339]

Great video, looking forward to your empire deep dive and tactics!

[@Emanon...]

You guys are now officially my go-to for TOW content. Brilliant video! There is only one Imperium and that is the Empire of Man. There is only one God-emperor and his name is Sigmar. For Magnus, for the Empire and for Sigmar!

[@mizzrum7591]

I have a question for you Rob, could I make a 100% Knight/horseback army with the Empire of Man. If so I'm getting on the hype train for them to come out. Once again thank you for the hard work you keep doing for us all.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

You can and it would be wicked

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

If a unit is CORE, and it isn’t restricted (I.e. 0-1), then you are free to make an entire army from that core unit. Take priests of Uric for good measure. 😁

[@mizzrum7591]

@@mrsnakesmrnot8499 Thank you for the information and have to give the priests of Uric a try.

[@DrGreening7]

Love the Empire, have always been that faction that I wanted to always build but never got around to getting. Hope to see some Elector State flavor in the Arcane Journal.

[@henriksorensen82]

It makes me so happy to hear someone other than myself talking so passionately about pigeon bombs

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

They are so important

[@henriksorensen82]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld yes that they are. And now you can have them on the Steam Tank as well

[@ph1lb3rt]

Another home run! Those pigeon bombs! 😂

[@julienlesage-c6m]

Thanks a lot for all those videos! Making my days easier listening to those at work!

[@troyradford75]

Great review Rob. I was on track to have my 7,500 pts of Empire ready for Old World and then my mate gave me another 2,500 pts to build and paint. Looking forward to epic battles again.

[@brianwalsh1339]

About time, I’ve been waiting for this one :)

[@spartanpiplup6229]

Bit late to the party, but an empire general with longbow and bow of the dragon can hit surprisingly hard. Stick him on a flying carpet and he can be almost anywhere you need him.

[@OstripesO]

Amazing video! Good for me who is coming back too Fantasy

[@MAZGamingUK]

Fantastic video. As a classic Fantasy Empire general I'm very rusty and this has really helped. Can't wait to see the new models now when the army is finally released

[@bearlyk]

Timestamps would be awesome - even just between intro, leadership & core

[@JoshuaRissik-in7kn]

Great overview, looking forward to the other factions as well as the deep dives. Thanks Rob 🤘

[@seanclarke8015]

Waited so long for this. You make the easiest to follow overviews.

[@zachjones2443]

So I run a “Nippon” counts as army for Empire. I have some sick samurai minis and such a fun list

[@keyanklupacs6333]

Dude that's awesome. I'm going to be running an empire turncoats army that have aligned themselves with chaos (also i can then use my greatswords and flaggellents are murauders in chaos warriors.) Buff stacking with a level 4 wizard with daemonology and a priest and bsb with a few great cannons!

[@zachjones2443]

@@keyanklupacs6333 that sounds fun!

[@Tzenyatta]

The content just keeps coming! Loving these overviews so much man, thanks for making these

[@mrviking8450]

See, I was looking at the militia. Between their throwing weapons and two hand weapons, that's a lot of attacks for a small price investment.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

I agree!!! Love stuff like that but it takes a crazy person to wanna do that many militia

[@mrviking8450]

*snorts line of plastic dust* It's only 700 points for 100 of them.

[@andrewj1754]

Plus they are levy. @@mrviking8450

[@morganpayne8337]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld I'm currently half way through painting 90 of them :D

[@jensbalslev4693]

Thanks for the breakdown! What armies of infamy do you think they´ll include in the Empire Journal? Flagellants lead by a Warrior Priest? One army for each of the three emperor´s? Artillery train?!

[@KnockoutKingable]

Great video , what book did all the data sheet info come from ? Planning on creating a nuln army with a ridiculous amount of handgunners for gunlines , artillery for sure and the steam tank. Who needs magic when you have bullets !!😂

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Forces of fantasy! That's the book that includes Empire

[@konatelassina5301]

I was wondering how they would handle wizards in this era of the Empire's history. I haven't heard the recon reasoning yet

[@venom_6111]

Yeah I was pretty disappointed when I found out they have better magic than the High Elves making the whole Magnus the Pius and Teclis' colleges a mute point. The reasoning is as follows "The status of Wizards varies greatly from one province of the Empire to another. In the Reikland, seat of the Cult of Sigmar, magic is universally outlawed and its practitioners, when caught, are burnt at the stake as witches. In neighbouring Talabecland, by contrast, where the worship of Taal is commonplace, Wizards enjoy greater freedom to practise their craft. Yet, wherever Wizards reside, superstition and distrust of their powers is rife amongst common folk, leading most sensible Wizards to seek the favour and protection of Imperial nobles and military officers. As such, practitioners of magic can be found in courts and barracks across the Empire, masquerading as wise advisers and trusted counsellors, only revealing the extent of their powers when called upon to do so in battle." Hope this helps.

[@liamroche1295]

I kinda love that the pistoliers are impetuous even though it will be a pain to play. Very flavourful.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

You can have some amazing story telling games with the rule

[@alfadasfire]

Just watched the beasmen one, I was impressed. Very useful. This one won't be any different I'm sure. Can you do one for the Lizardmen? I know, not one of the "main" factions but definitely the one I am most interested in. Maybe tied with dwarfs and beastmen. Very good videos!

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

I'll be doing one of every faction and more!

[@alfadasfire]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld Yeah! I'm binge watching them all now. Very interesting, and you manage to make me VERY interested in all of them. They are all so cool! Ofc time, space and money won't allow me to collect them all but if I could, I would.

[@themidnightaristocrat]

The opening felt like I was watching an old Phil Kelly army video. I miss those videos.

[@sverdmester]

I like how the Empire is just regular humans, but I wish they would have just one unit of dudes that really push the limit of human capability. Something kind of like what grail knights are to bretonnians.

[@vladimirpalik6697]

Well they kinda do it by being stubborn and giving a fight to the last man LOL

[@stepansraka3608]

Demigryph knights kinda do that, although it's their mounts doing most of the pushing.

[@sverdmester]

@@stepansraka3608 Yeah, I thought about them too, and they do fill a similar role tactically. But as you say, even though they have a respectable statline, most of the work is done by the demigryph. Even the T4 seems to be provided by the mount.

[@NoName-lo9ym]

The problem is how weak the Warrior Priest prayers are. Only Shield of Sigmar and Hammer of Sigmar are consistently good, and Wrath of Winter is only good in specific situations (into monsters, monstrous cavalry and characters). The Priests need a bit of a buff and a re-write and then you could get the feel of the power of two much bigger and more powerful Gods than the Lady of the Lake!!

[@mjpyro7993]

Another great review with a fresh perspective. Keep ‘em coming! Cheers

[@gangsterspairofdice1037]

Summon the Elector Counts!

[@tutorialdieg9398]

Are you going to cover the factions of "legends” like dark elfs and chaos dwarfs I always want to play fantasy and with you content I am going to Love your content

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Absolutely. All in good time. Rob spends a whole lot of time on each of these so he's gonna get through everything as fast as he can

[@tutorialdieg9398]

Thanks very much that was a fast answer I will waiting for all the new content your team does Greetings from Mexico

[@tutorialdieg9398]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld incredible just todo they drop the legacy army’s I can’t wait for your análisis

[@themainstager]

I love these videos! Thank you for explaining things so eloquently 😊

[@Slothasaur]

Having all the engineer stuff back is so cool, rolling for pigeon bombs are going to be so hype! Also having to choose Bang! or Phweee! is what wargaming is all about

[@mightyg4538]

You’ve been doing great job! I truly enjoyed watching the vids. Well done!

[@Iron_Wyvern]

IT'S KRAUT TIME

[@chrisgibson2774]

Any chance you can make the graphics for each unit, with each units rules and relevant USRs available as a download? Would be a super helpful gaming aid!

[@michaciemniewski9791]

Great! When can I expect Chaos Dwarfs review? My beloved army of all times.

[@CorporalTunnel]

Love these videos, can’t wait for the Orcs and Goblins video

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Coming soon

[@rutherfordappraisal258]

So is this the year I finally build an Empire army constructed around a huge unit of inner circle knights kitbashed up to be Knights of Morr?

[@Shadoweyed09]

May be Oldhammer coming in but Empire brings 2 cannons in every list, then fills in from there. I like that that the troops are cheap and inter-reliant, that has shown to be the best Empire.

[@Shadoweyed09]

The best way to think of characters in the Empire is as supporting elements. You add one to support a specific unit or aspect of what you want. Engineer for warmachines, Warrior Priests for hard hitting or defensive (not quite anvil) blocks. Wizards and Captains fit as you see fit. Don't put stock in the characters when the combined lined troops can do the work with enough support.

[@SinglemSolis]

A question for the magic item video: Does the sword of justice synergise with the laurels of Victory? Does Laurels of victory count on the mounts attacks?

[@Rdeboer]

I hope that by the time the Empire comes into focus in TOW there will be new knight models. Much of the pre-existing Empire range holds up fairly well, but the old knightly orders set is well past its sell-by date.

[@crimsonsun2000]

I love the Empire, its one hell of a lot to collect and build an army of however..

[@IceJoust]

I can't decide if I love the Master of the Order or the Engineer more.. any set up that sees more of the beautiful Demigrpyhs on the table I'll take though!

[@MordianGlory]

Amazing video! Been looking forward to this for days and I watched start to finish in one go ❤ Was proper chuckling at the mad glint that was in Robs eye during the pidgeon bomb bit!I😂 1 quick question, can you upgrade Detachment with the normal unit upgrades? Im just wondering how many Repeater Handguns or Long rifles I could cram into a list spamming 5 man Detachments

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

All upgraded apart from command groups!!! Thanks for watching the video!

[@The_Ben_M]

Thanks for this Rob! Currently trying to get 30 Flagellants painted up

[@chrish1645]

I know you said on the live stream that you were struggling with excitement while making this video. If you were it really didn't come through. Great overview of the army and I loved the little comments about all the stupid lists we're going to make for the army. 80 flagellants backed by as many pigeon flinging engineers as we can fit? You bet!

[@davedecrop3726]

I played Empire for 15 years at the time of warhammer fantasy. Won tournaments, ETC. Believe me detachment units and small archers units of 5 are sacred in an empire army.

[@VoltanIgnatio]

The one ive been most excited about, thanks Rob 💪👍

[@anglecynn927]

First fantasy models I ever bought were the 10 halberdiers box in 4th edition, just normal blokes shanking all the horrible fiends arrayed against them alway appealed to me! Still do and I can’t wait to bang my Empire Army out for ToW.

[@nurglematthew893]

Ronald best summaries

[@lesbianmorgoth652]

i've been thinking about doing a marienburg force that have gone into the border princes for some early modern-esque colonialism. just got to figure out who the fantasy dutch are colonising...

[@rikusvolschenk6476]

If this was a thing in the past, apologies, but only starting to look Warhammer now again since 8th Ed. The Imperial banner basically gives all units in range Cold-blooded. Wow, that is strong! Auto-include imo.

[@Nekorook]

Going to have get grab some halfling minis and make a Mootland army

[@capt.mannerings8095]

Always good to know the enemy. Great video.

[@nathanfee9644]

Thanks for the video! Looking forward to Tomb Kangs.

[@zaynevanday142]

In this timeline there was way more than just 13 Tanks total as was the case in the time of Karl Franz 🔥 🔥 🔥

[@AdmiralMila]

I feel like the Witch Hunter should just be able to pick their specialism before the battle at the same time wizards are generating their spells.

[@nicolasperel8026]

I think you miss the fact that with this Empire, we can make nice thematic lists :) I'm a fan of Cult of Ulric ;) I know you said it in this video, but in another you quite criticize this book. Thanks for your work anyways, awesome content !

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

I'm so keen for this book but it's not readily apparent how to build it. That's all

[@aediusbarbatus]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld Big blocks of State Troops with detachments, well-placed characters to bolster Leadership, knights as a counterpunch after your lines absorb charges, artillery to apply pressure at range... it's the ultimate combined arms force. The Empire army has always rewarded tactical play and a solid understanding of the rules instead of relying on a handful of powerful units to just smash into everything.

[@sheepewe4505]

They have got rid of the robohorse (or even the option to have them mounted at all) for the Engineer, thank Sigmar. What's even the point of having an Engineer mounted if he is just camping out with a long rifle next to the artillery?

[@r.j.macready]

I think close order infantry should have been able to "step up" to keep cav from being too dominant like it looks like it will. Or possibly just units with the "veteran" special rule.

[@vladimirpalik6697]

An old Outriders wisdom says that You don't get -1 for range if You are 6" from the enemy 🤣

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

WISDOM

[@cristhianmlr]

Unrelated, but I wanted to buy a new Chaos or Beast army for TOW but they're all sold out in the webstore 💀💀💀💀

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Wow

[@Agozz87]

Looking forward to ogre mercenaries in the arcane journal 🤞

[@seangray8509]

Awesome intro thanks Rob

[@LordBilliam]

Imperials: we are the Empire of Man Bretonnians: ah yes, the Empire of Some, But Not All, Men

[@GhostGuitars]

another absolute banger. cant wait for the Orcs/Goblins

[@darrenhazelden2340]

Ive been enjoying these even when i dont care about the faction. So much more engaging and interesting than just reading the book at me

[@Wurschtbi3b]

Question; why is the Griffon listed on a 50 x 50 Base and the imperial Griffon on a 60 x 100? They come from the same Box only the imperial Griffon has 2 heads right?

[@aediusbarbatus]

No, the 50x50 Griffon would be the older metal versions, which weren't ridiculously large. Any version of the current AOS plastic griffon would be an Imperial Griffon. The second head is a 20-point upgrade.

[@Wurschtbi3b]

@@aediusbarbatus ah ok i see. I asked because i bought the AOS Griffon with Rider and the kit has 3 options; Karl Franz with Death Claw, Lord/Mage on Griffon (with one head) and Lord/Mage on imperial Griffon and the only thing that makes him "imperial" is two heads.

[@BajsDan]

I've yet to receive my rule book but I think you're wrong on the template mechanics. As far as I understand the same mechanics are employed as in 8th edition. This means that anything under (wholly or partially) the template is hit and you roll to wound. There is no roll to hit (unless you count the scatter) followed by a roll to wound. This makes both the mortar and Helstorm a rather fearsome prospect, The mortar might be S2 but it's S2 at AP1 with a 5" template. And the helstorm, with three templates is statistically very likely to get a good hit with at least one of them.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Partial hits (not fully under the template) are only hits if you roll and additional 4+

[@ClydeMillerWynant]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld And the base sizes mean you hit fewer models as well. Have you been able to find out if there is anything relating to how things work out depending on even or odd numbers of ranks and files (the hole being directly over one model or at the intersecting point of two or four etc)?

[@BajsDan]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld Wow, that feels like a real gut punch to Artillery. Increased cost and reduced number of hits on account of larger base sizes and the re-introduciton of partials. I guess we'll have to see how things pan out but my instinctive thought is "why would I ever take a war machine that isn't a cannon or Helblaster"? (I play Empire)

[@Dryzual]

"Will it be effective, No. Will it sometimes work, also No. Will I get to consistently consult the pigeon bomb table, Yes, Im in." 😀

[@Crozierization]

What do you think is a good unit size for Demigryphs I currently have nine Demigryph Knights. 3 with Halberd, 3 with Lance, and 3 as a nonbinary command group (hammer&horn, banner&shield, sword&shield)

[@Crozierization]

I guess what I’m wondering is, should I shift any of the lance grifs over to being halberds, or switch any of the halberd grifs over to being lances? Or get more? Currently I could field 6 of either, but not both at the same time unless I split up the command group. Which varietal is more useful?

[@CrimeaRiver]

Keep 'em coming!

[@sheppeyfishtales]

The Steam Tank looks extremely frightening!

[@RustedBrush]

Yes! Was waiting for this one! Let's gooo!

[@hailhydra7959]

“Elector Counts Assemble!” - OB, probably

[@bearlyk]

Detachment rules hurt my brain

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

Perhaps winning a tournament by maxing out on pigeons and rockets is the best way to get street cred. Then, take that lucky rolling streak to the craps table.

[@patrickhill8494]

God, I'm going to spend so much money on both official and 3D printed minis this year 😂.

[@questery]

I just went to a swap meet at one of my favourite FLGS. The last time I went I started a skaven army for AoS, and now have 7k in skaven. This time I walked in and the first thing I see is a small dwarf army on squares for 180 aud. Yoink. Walking around we find 20 hammerers for 30 bucks, yoink. On the way to the register there is a little, original, metal white dwarf. Yoink. Then I got a runelord on my way out. So.. dwarf overview?! :D My army is now: 2 organ guns 2 cannon 20 warriors 20 quarellors 20 longbeards 20 hammerers 2 runelords I bought a high king from etsy the white dwarf who I will probably run as a lord of some sort because why not. I have no idea what else to buy. Haven't even got the damned rules yet (delayed in Aus) and I have two armies hahahaha.

[@juliancalero8012]

If this is the vanilla faction then the old world has high quality vanilla beans

[@intzbk1]

What a great video, subbed. Now I have to get get my Battlemasters figures based. j/k... maybe.

[@clarkcommando1983]

Is there a starter army coming