Squares - Choosing and Using Them in the Workshop -- A woodworkweb.com video

www.woodworkweb.com/woodwork-t... : Making good joints and wood projects that fit together nicely begins by having your machinery set up accurately, and the only way to do that is to make sure you have accurate squares to do that with. In this video we look at different squares and which ones are more suited for setting you equipment more accurately and which ones are for rougher construction work.

[@GlueC]

I just hold my thumb and index finger in an L shape. Perfect every time. On a more serious note, I remember about 25 years ago when I was a kid in exploring around the basement and wondering why there were different kinds. My dad just saw them as a large, medium, and smaller one. This long later I learned that the medium one might have been iffy (wooden handle) and the small one was an engineer's square. Neat. You made what sounds like it could be a really dull topic pretty interesting.

[@chuckuu9294]

After watching your video on squares. I went to my little shop and checked my squares with my framing square. Yes you were right. All three of my tri squares were out various amount and my wooden handle square was too. Into the recycling bin they went. Now only steel squares are in my shop. Thank you so much for this great tip. Now my table saw cuts right to the line. thank you again chuck

[@corvuse.2873]

What did you check your framing square with? I recently bought a second framing square and they don’t quite agree.

[@knecht105]

Thanks for taking the time to comment, great to have you with us Colin

[@knecht105]

Good for you to know and find out it was off, then do the work that needed to be done to correct it. Thanks for the note, others will be able to learn from this too. Thanks for posting ... Colin

[@knecht105]

Hi Jake, As I said in the vid if you have one that works, don't no need to change. The problem is, for every 1 good quality adjustable square sold there are probably 50 ... not-so-good ones sold. Nobody who buys a combo-squares says to themselves ... "I wonder if this square is accurate?" ... We just assume they are, but nobody talks about that. I only want to raise the awareness. Glad to hear you got a good one, and thanks for taking the time to comment on this. Colin

[@knecht105]

Hi Wayne, thanks for all the information on your square. Good to hear 30 years of wear and tear has not affected it accuracy. For most of us working with wood, an engineers square is more than enough to check and set up machinery, even if it is off by seven thousandths of an inch. Wood movement alone would nullify the need for that kind of accuracy. Thanks again for taking the time and sharing your detail. Colin

[@randysellers7745]

I've 56 yr old man . I've been in took rough framing and steel work all my life and build and repair all maintenance issues at home until recently I decided to remodel my bathroom. That's when I learned rather quickly that There is a Problem with measuring and layout Tools. Cabinet and trim work . immediately I realized I had a problem. I thought it was the tools about new take measures squares saws . Still had a problem I could not make Door jambs and Trim come together measured measured and remeasured. You sir have been a major help and realizing what my problem was as you explained in the squares And other tools that don't cause problems when I was rough framing using a Welder and Such things . My wife thinks I may have lost my mind setting in the garage Checking squared against other squares . hours checking my squares with squares. Comparing tape measure against tape measure and when almost squares were off a little what was I to trust nothing .I relied on Silicone caulking.

[@randysellers7745]

I wanted Crown molding in my bathroom. You can't even imagine The problems I had and I could not understand why and it's still hard for me to wrap my head around it get measure it and then Market down And then turn it upside down and cut it. Not you away a $100 worth of chopped up and cut up Crown molding. The worst part for me is I knew I could do it and I could not figure out where the problem was. Again sir you cannot believe how much you've helped In order to say it the best. I been using the right tools for the wrong job. I've done such a good job on the Crown molding and built my confidence. To where I Went bought a quality table saw and tools and now M believe it or not I'm removing in 3 different phases all the cabinets in my kitchen I'm building them myself with Quality material .my home is a fixer upper There's no place in my floors that are level the walls Is not plumb. So for anybody that tells you you didn't need to say this or say that. With their level of experience they may be correct I don't know until I get that much experience. But until then you give me the confidence to re do my kitchen cabinets Completely from scratch. I will keep you posted hopefully we will spend Thanksgiving Eating in a nice kitchen Or I'll have to spend it at a homeless shelter I After I am divorced .

[@markmiller-summer473]

Colin, your presentation is spot on! I wish I had sat through your class a long, long time ago. My wood bills would have been less and my "How Sweeeeet-to-Oh Dang" ratio certainly would have drastically been different.

[@knecht105]

Hi Roland, hmmm ... that's a good idea, I think I need to get a few of you guys around me when I am making these vids, so good ideas always help. I will see what I can do about making a short, non-listed add on to that vid, I really like your idea ... thanks for taking the time to mention it Colin

[@knecht105]

Thanks for commenting .. clearly you know your way around squares and when to use them to their best advantage. Thanks for mentioning about the depth usage, a point I didn't mention in the vid but at least one good use of the combo/tri square. Thanks again ... Colin

[@KRColson]

Boy, Colin you are absolutely dead on regarding squares!!!! I have driven myself to utter distraction wondering why my joints are not lining up only to discover the nickel-ninety-eight square I was using was NOT SQUARE to begin with! Thank you ever so much for making this video and pointing out the inaccuracies with cheap measuring devices. You get what you pay for and sometimes a little (or a lot more) up front will make your life so much easier in the end! Again, thank you.

[@joedejesus6363]

Great lesson thanks, I've always relied on the "Steel Squares" myself. You can never go wrong with them.

[@knecht105]

Hi Cary ... your brother is a lucky guy!! ... lucky he has someone like you around who can see when things are not right. There are is poor quality stuff coming from many different sources and even some counterfeit stuff that looks like it`s US but actually isn`t, so reading where it`s manufactured isn`t always correct either. Good for you for being able to spot the problem and raising the alarm. You are absolutely correct in that squares need to be accurate ... thanks again Colin

[@DEG1985]

Well explained video, I always learn with Mr. Colin, I think he is possibly the best teacher on the internet...

[@FedericoGalimbertiApparel]

Thanks!! I really appreciate your information and experiences!!

[@knecht105]

Thanks for posting this, I am not familiar (I don`t think anyway) with Nobex. I will have to check them out ... thanks again Colin

[@woodsniffer]

I purchesed a new square after viewing your video. I really like the Engineers all steel one. Fantastic thanks. It really helps when squaring wood on my table saw with the squaring Jig.

[@davebeedon3424]

Thanks for making me more aware of accuracy. What you call a "draftman's square" I have known as a "triangle," going all the way back to 1966, when I took a class in engineering drawing. I was disappointed that you displayed a T-square but did not mention it.

[@woodprojectswithalex2692]

Hi Colin, This course was very very helpful for me and I find a couple of mistakes that I made before by choosing the inappropriate square in my job. Thank you very much.

[@woodlandparadise6002]

I was a draftsman back in the 70's and truly enjoyed this video. I don't know how many times the tri square has failed me in the past ,then I realized it's worn out. Great topic...

[@knecht105]

Thanks for watching!

[@knecht105]

Hi Josh, you could use your draftsman square, depending on how big it is. If it is one of the larger ones and you feel you are getting a good reading, go ahead. You can check your cut after with eng, Square and make adjustments of needed. One thing ... when you are making your test cuts on sled - don't cut all the way through the base until you are certain the backer board is where you want it, just easier to re-adjust if you have cut all the way through. Let me know how you make out ... Colin

[@knecht105]

Hi Nicholas, thanks for commenting ... we are hearing reports from other owners that their Starretts appear to be quite accurate, but never hurts to check I guess. Colin

[@knecht105]

I see we are on the same wave-length. By having at least one good quality square in your shop for setting up machines and using as a reference, you will be on the right track. Unfortunately we often simply assume that every square we pick up is accurate, but some aren't. Thanks for commenting ... keep in touch ... Colin

[@pritam144]

Perfect research sir. Thank you so much. It helps me a lot.

[@takismantas1159]

Love how you try to stay calm while holding the combination square. We've all been there at some point or another.

[@mariomuranaka9751]

Very good explanation, thank you !

[@KennethColeStatenIsland]

Wow, great information, thanks again.

[@MrSheevy]

Hi does square stay square over any distance, any input would be great. Thank you

[@pcproff]

Great point! In Florida the humidity is off the charts

[@mmazing]

Thanks for the video, good info as I had some inaccuracy earlier tonight with my tri-square. Subscribed!

[@joelcash5190]

Here's a tip for situations that need a combination square: They can be very reliably if calibrated, and calibrating is pretty easy. The "How to adjust a combination square" video by John Heisz is short and well done.

[@bricofast]

The best video squares Thanks 👌

[@kaydenmcgowan557]

hi colin thanks for puting the video on it answered my questions about the last comment i put about the table sawsled .. could i use a draftmans square to set my sawsled up as i dont yet have a framing square i also have a engineers square to . any tips ??

[@68jacen]

One of your better videos. You got straight to the point, talked about the pro's and con's. I really like using my tri square ( I call it a combination square), for setting depth of cuts. I had purchased a route lift. Used the tri square to mark the depth, and cutter height to make the cut. Trying to go with the princepal of not measure, but finding the depth, and xferring it. Kind of curious on what measuring/ process you would of used to get the job done.

[@itamarkas]

Which square is recommended for accurate speaker box building? Thanks.

[@carlossimoescampos1]

Hi, Colin! Very good your video! I am a woodwork DIYer since a few month ago and I've a doubt. I will buy a stainless steel high precision square 150 mm x 100 mm. Considering the woodwork services which is better: square with base or not? Thanks.

[@gcanaday1]

My dad, who was a machinist, always called the Engineer's Square a Machinist's Square, and that's the name that's stuck with me. I don't own one, but I work in a precision machine shop and may make myself one. Why I haven't already I don't know! I DO have 3 combination squares, one 12" Stanley and two 6", one foreign that I never use and one higher-quality. I use them essentially like you mentioned: for laying out 2x4s for making things like shop table frames that I glue & screw.

[@knecht105]

Ah ... great minds think alike :) I have just uploaded another short video on how to check and make small adjustments to framing type squares, you can see it at the 8 min point in the video. As far as what to choose for a tri-square, generally the more you pay the better you get ... but not always, best to check what you are looking at with something you know is good, then you can make a better decision. Great comment ... thanks for posting :) Colin

[@aaudain1]

I do agree with you those squares I run into a lot of problems when I first started off and woodworking you are so right about that

[@wollybenson6726]

I use my engineers squares I have 3 of them and they’ve been spot on. If I need anything bigger I use my big steel square. I enjoyed your video and your so right about those Squares you showed that aren accurate.

[@brentdhedrick]

The combination square was designed initially for machinists. You can buy cheap ones at the big box stores or online, but it is unfair to lead people away from them. Starrett layout tools are machined to unbelievable tolerances, and are quite possibly THE go to tools for layout when precision is needed. Engineering squares can also be purchased for cheap with unreliable results. This video should not have been an emphasis on which type of layout tool to use; it should have been on the importance of quality when choosing one. And on a side note, I would never use a framing square for furniture work, but like you said, if you have one that is accurate, then dont change. I also use drafting triangles as they are good for setting up equipment.

[@monteglover4133]

Dido

[@johnjohnoj6408]

ty colin, you teach very good.

[@vskkgaming]

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. ..I have all the ones that were in your do not use list. Now I know.

[@knecht105]

I still use them ... just not for anything that I need that wants to be quite accurate. I did a fence repair the other day ... and it worked fine for that :) Thanks for commenting ... love your name choice too

[@synapse131]

This is so true. I bought an inexpensive 7 inch tri/combo square from Sears (if I could afford a better one, I would) and I literally had to file the ruler straight using my caliper to check it. Much better after some work.

[@solb101]

How would you measure other angles or transfer measurements without a combination square?

[@beyondlimitsproductions1468]

Great Video! I was always curious about which squares were the best, this put that to rest! Ive always wanted an acurate square...I cant stand when Im off a 16th or even a 32nd. Im very much still an amature wanting to make more intermedate projects and this is definetely a step in the right direction! Thanks for this vid!

[@knecht105]

Beyond Limits Productions Yeah ... boy I'm with you about having accurate squares. Probably even more important to newer woodworkers, when you are putting things together and they don't match up, it's pretty easy to think that we made a mistake somewhere, never dreaming the square is the problem. Thanks for commenting ...

[@stanwebb2272]

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!When building 2 saw horses the speed squares were off and had to use a compass and metal rule and my son and his knowledge of Trig.......... worked great!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@graham6411]

I have checked with all of the whizz-bang companies like woodpecker who sells measurement tools at a very steep price. None of them have a NIST certification except the Starrett forged head tri-square. As for wear, a dial meter used to measure extremely accurate dimensions on a milling machine has a much greater possibility for wear than the slide on a tri-square. Granted, there is junk for sale cheap but every tool has junk knockoffs. As for carpenter squares, drop one on the corner and see what you have for square.

[@TedStJohn-vz9jr]

What an eye-opener. I followed up by checking 5 squares in my own arsenal, and was shocked at how far off the tri-square and even a framing square were. A couple others were right on, so now I know I have to keep that in mind when accuracy counts.

[@knecht105]

Ted St. John I too was shocked when I checked mine. They tell me that the very expensive tri-squares are in fact accurate, but most people are not willing to spend the $200 it takes to get one. Thanks for the comment Ted Colin

[@michaelbulger1947]

Combination squares were, and are used in metalworking, not just in rough carpentry. They can be very accurate.

[@kellerrobert80]

Came here to say this. The combination square (not tri-square) he's demonstrating with the brass screw is inexpensive. A steel one made in USA or Japan are very accurate. A 12" costs about US$35 and will last decades.

[@artheen4713]

A Starrett square will cost you north of $100, and will last longer than that. It's about the best investment a woodworker can make, given how much use they see and how accurate they stay.

[@DMM-cv5fh]

I am with you on most of your analysis, I use the machinist squares on setting my fences and for intricate joinery. Here is what is strange, my 15 year old Swanson speed square is as accurate as my machinist squares. I am dead serious, I have checked and rechecked it and it is PERFECT. Its a steel one so you know its not going to move unless you happen to drop it in your forge LOL.

[@Mrdubomb]

I picked up an engineer square like one in video, (sobe, made in india) but its been dropped and bumped around a bit, should I throw it out? How susceptible to abuse are they?

[@knecht105]

Couldn't agree with you more ... if you have at least one engineers square around the shop, at least you have a reference point. Thanks for taking the time to comment . Colin

[@johnbuob3480]

Sorry Colin the brass nub that rides in the ruler groove has no bearing on the accuracy of how square the tri-square is. The accuracy is determined by the 2 pads inside the square head that the edge of the ruler rides on. These can be filed carefully to true up one of these squares and they should be checked every once in a while with and engineers square. I recently purchased one of these tri-squares at Harbor freight tools and was not expecting it to be be very accurate but to my amazement it was so close to dead on, I just left it alone. Very good videos, keep up the great work.

[@brett328]

actually a couple of the most common reasons those combo squares can be inaccurate are 1. sawdust debris in the channel between the blade and body, and 2. a nick on the blade from dropping it or having banged it against something previously. That little nick can cause a nub that will prevent the blade from seating flush in the channel. At any rate, he is quite right in the notion that those can become out of square rather easily without you realizing it. Solid advice to check them out. All the bashers here need to get a life.

[@BandasPalette]

Great video. Just confirmed I need to spend the extra money for an engineer square. Thanks a lot!!!

[@knecht105]

jaime banda Yes, you will not be sorry and they aren't really that much money considering it will last you the rest of your life :)

[@jamishep]

Thanks for the tips Colin. I went and checked my Tri square and speed squares with my metal squares. You were right - they weren't exactly square! Good on ya mate.

[@knecht105]

You're Welcome Jamie! Thanks for watching.

[@richarsenault1004]

I use my Starret combination combination square. Accurate and trust it. It’s made for machine work.

[@guyjohnson3775]

Good advice 👍

[@aaudain1]

You are so right about that thanks for sharing this video why am I just seeing this

[@duster.]

Thanks Colin, as someone just coming to woodwork just after I turned 60 I've a lot to learn in what time I have left. I found your clip informative and useful. I have some of each of the squares mentioned except the engineers' square. I did have a 2" version but it has vanished. I will look into buying a replacement and thanks to a poster for the RDG Tools link - a set of 4 for £27.00.

[@duster.]

I went to a local house clearance store in town today and picked up a 6 inch and 9 inch engineers' square £5.00 (5 GBP) for the pair. That's approx $7.80. Looking at them I think that they are 40 to 50 years old and very well constructed.

[@knecht105]

+Robert Trevena Well done ... I think I need to go shopping with you to get in on some of your great finds ;)

[@mibict]

Every combination square have a lifetime, simple as that. You can buy one quite precise in price range of 15 - 30 USD and use it for a long time. When it's wear out - buy new one. P.S. I bought my combination square from China. Surprise - very accurate and fastening bolt is also made of steel, same as ruler, therefore I expect to last longer than brass one.

[@pauldevey8628]

Good video. I have 5 different sized Starrett Combo squares. All are spot on and I use them for machining. Pays your money and get quality. I believe Starrett invented Combo squares for machinists.

[@travel734]

I agree the Starrett square is the "gold standard". The invented the tool and they continue to make a great product. The rule is steel and the head is cast iron. Over the years there will be some wear on the pads that the rule is held against by the lock bolt. Periodically, as with framing squared, the trueness should be checked and a simple adjustment with the edge of the rule should suffice. I have an aluminum head Stanley and after 30 years it is still true.

[@artheen4713]

Starrett also sells combination squares where the head is forged steel instead of cast iron. They cost a bit more, but should last for generations of daily use.

[@karls6802]

I have found over the years that my try squares have failed all too soon whether they are cheap or expensive. Good video, this is an often miss understood issue the difference between construction tools and cabinet maker tools, both good for their purpose.

[@waynegetkate9315]

Oh by the way, I also have a steel square ofn600mm X 400mm which I use often. Been wanting to get a smaller one which i will do soon. Am also buying a Speed Square if I can find one locally, else will buy on eBay. The Speed Square is so cool to have.

[@LimitedGunnerGM]

Check out the cnc squares made by Mirock. Excellent and accurate!

[@rickreed123]

I just adjusted my combination squares to make them square. Same with other types. You can even just make one if you need to. It is just a square, make it square and check it an adjust it you need to.

[@greygoosemafia]

which ones are bad? brands?

[@BackyardWoodworking]

Wish you showed how to check your square for square by drawing a line then flipping it over and drawing a line next to it. If your square is off it will show up. I've seen brand new steel framing squares way off. Levels are also good to check before you buy one. Thanks Colin good info as always. Roland

[@alext9067]

I did that with my drywall square and it was off by a country mile. My miter saw was off too. I make a cut an flip it over to see the error. Trouble is when the 45 to 45 is off. You can move the fence, but you can't change the 45 to 45 angle, to my knowledge. I think one of my saws is about .25 degrees off. Did Colin say he had a secret video on checking squares? I bet it's your system. Good one.

[@randywarnock2937]

What you call a “try square” is a combination square. Starter Bridge City Tool Works, Woodpeckers squares are all very accurate. The first square is what I call a try square.

[@jimhester2004]

Good information, Colin. I think I need to not be so cheap, and pull the trigger on an engineer's square. I know that tri-squares can be adjusted, but who wants to have to check them every time you drop them, or they get a hard bump? Thanks for the advice.

[@InformationIsTheEdge]

Good video! There is a lot of useful information here. I appreciate it!

[@knecht105]

InformationIsTheEdge thanks for taking the time to comment Colin

[@InformationIsTheEdge]

WoodWorkWeb Hey Colin! I happened across your channel when I was looking for videos of old Stanley tools. The reason I was looking is because I had just purchased a 12" Stanley square at a flea market for the Princely sum of $1. Just like in your video! I was quite pleased to learn that I had made a good choice. Thanks again for all of the great information!

[@knecht105]

InformationIsTheEdge Those old Stanley tools are excellent ... IF you can still find them. LOL a $1.00 for a square, that is such a great deal ... well done !

[@athiker7209]

Good Info; I have all but the engineer square. If ever dropped, one should check the accuracy. One quick method I use is to place it on a good know straight surface where you can scribe a 90 deg line. Flip the square over and then scribe on the same line using the scribe mark closest to the edge. If you still see only one line you are square. If out at the end, you see two lines, example what looks like a 1 degree angle, then your square is off by half that amount.

[@horaciocastillo3082]

Good advice!...so we work with accurate...

[@labrat7357]

You get what you pay for. The trisquare is an excellent engenneering tool, the example you have is a cheap die cast copy. Mine is a Mitutoyo and it is very accurate. I also use a Colen Clenton square with a wood stock and it is always spot on as I check it with its reference square and recalibrate it if needed (it has not been needed yet). Metal engeneering squares are variable in quality as well. A M&W tool room reference square at $200 will be far more accurate than a $20 groz metal square.

[@BradsWorkbench]

If the combo square is meant to be used with a pencil then why do most have little scribes in the bottom?

[@dailyfootynews3788]

This just confirmed my own experience with some squares- regardless of quality. It's better to use a solid type of square if you really want to be absolutely accurate. Something that contains loose parts and that can get inaccurate with time is something to be wary of. If you can do the job with a framing square, then do so. I've found we resort to substitutes and cross-over tools as a result of people not using the intended tool correctly or for it's intended purpose or not trying to get the very best out of it, so they use a substitute to make it "easier". In drawing and fine art- my hobby- it's exactly the same: millions of pencil grades for instance: from 9H to F to HB all the way up to 9B- all because people(or teachers/instructors who are the biggest culprits) do not have the time or patience to learn/teach how to use a pencil properly and setup a drawing surface correctly or how to blend or shade correctly; and how to use pressure and multiple layers to control the volume of your shade. Stumps and a variety of mechanical pencils, heaps of erasers, every sort of sharpener under the sun etc.. Just a mess and the quality of work suffers. It might take a little bit more work, but learn to use the correct tool- properly; for the job and you save yourself a lot of headaches, avoid a bad habit and avoid dependency on that substitute. Simples. Thanks again!

[@calblacksmith]

For the most part, I agree. Price is an indicator of quality. My square set (blade, head, center finder and protractor) Starrett 434-12-16R is dead on. It is forged and hardened steel, I bought it as a learner tool and die maker over 30 years ago and it is still 100% accurate. Today it will set you back $278 and likely will not be in a home big box store. The steel square you like, is not accurate when looking at tooling tolerances of + - 0.007" I check to a granite master square often. YMMV!

[@pystig]

Hi Colin. Thnx for this video. It would be also nice to show us how to check a square. Also, while possible, to compare tri-squares from Starrett. I am in a market for one and I'd like to be sure to have a quality tool for the price Starrett asks for their tools. Thnx

[@waterbuddy92]

love your simple, yet detailed explanations. question: where did you pick up your pronunciation of words like 'again and against' ? it's kinda like old english, but you don't have any other accent.

[@censusgary]

The problem with a wood and metal measuring tool is not just that wood expands and contracts (and twists and warps); it’s also that metal expands and contracts (with temperature changes) at a different rate from wood. For that matter, brass expands and contracts at a different rate from steel or aluminum (that’s the principle behind bimetal thermal switches). Come to think of it, a metal ruler is a different size at one temperature from another. That doesn’t matter from minute to minute, but if you measure some pieces on a cold day, and then come back the next day, when it’s hot, and measure more pieces, yesterday’s won’t be quite the same size as today’s. Also, if you measure a piece of metal that is hot from machining, it won’t be the same size when it cools down.

[@RoyAndrews82]

HOLY CRAP.. Starrett Squares are EXPENSIVE. Very Expensive. Looked at Starrett's site.. WOW.. Expensive. Looked at Starrett Squares at McMaster-Carr.. Expensive. But your paying for accuracy. Like 0.0001" accuracy. For a 6" Starrett engineers square, it's currently $369.06. Now that's very expensive. 3" is $242.22, etc. etc. Nice video. (+1 : 186)

[@knecht105]

MARK 1 Thanks for commenting Mark, yes they are expensive and yes you are paying for the quality and versatility. Not everyone is prepared to invest in this kind of a tool and that is why there are so many options at all sorts of different prices. What I like is the people, like you, are doing their research and will end up purchasing what will work best for them. Thanks again Mark ... Colin

[@williamwinn948]

I live in New England never had a problem using my Starrett's

[@woodworkingspace7342]

Thanks for the valuable information Colin, I studied in a woodworker course, between my 14 and 18 years of age, I am now about to turn 51 years old and am buying tools for working with wood, I confess that I have to learn a lot before putting my hands on. I am Brazilian, here not easy nowadays to get a good square that really accurate, I've tried several manufacturers here and it was only disappointment, now I'm looking at the squares for Carpenter 53M-250-S or 53M-300-S Starrett by its great reputation and we have here in Brazil, do not intend to buy a combination square Starrett because of its high cost. I'm researching a lot about buying a decent combination square 6-Inch and 12-Inch, I liked what I read about Stanley Rabone, EMPIRE E255IM, Blem Cosmetic Second PEC SAE Metric 12 "and Blem Cosmetic Second PEC USA 6", these last I seem to be better options for having heads of cast iron and stainless steel rules, and more accurate. What is decided so far is that I will buy Starrett 53M-250-S / 53M-300-S a good engineer square to check other squares. Thanks again. Diomar

[@NirreFirre]

Check out the DIN875 standard used in Europe. You can get a engineer's square with a specific tolerance (class 00 to 2) that are order of magnitudes better than any Starret. Primat is an example but German ebay and Amazon is full of pretty good deals, buy from a reputable seller so you don't get duds

[@woodworkingspace7342]

Good tip! Thank you

[@peterhaughton568]

Colin could you find out if I can fit a dado blade to my portable 10 inch table saw rise and fall dw7 354 peter fae Scotland thanks col.

[@knecht105]

Peter Haughton Having a bit of trouble finding an exact answer but here is best I can find. Your saw has a 30mm arbor (??) all blades in North America are 5/8 inches or 15.8mm ... but even if we could find a dado blade, the other issue would be the horse power of your saw, is a wee bit low to be trying to drive a dado set, the other problem is that the saw arbor, from what I can find, is too short to put a dado blade on and still have room to secure it with the screw. Peter, I am planning to do a video on making dado cuts with the router in the next few weeks. I know this doesn't help you now, and not sure if you have a router, but this might be an alternative for you in the future. Hope this helps Peter .... Colin

[@peterhaughton568]

Yes use router a lot col all look out for that and thanks for getting back so soon peter fae Scotland.

[@oneeyedphotographer]

I know the first square as a try sqyare, because you use ot to try an angle to see whether it's square. I am not well informed regarding those with a wooden body, but squares with metal bodies exist. Those should match your engineers square. I do not recommend comparing squares, there's a process I am surprised yu didn't mention. Take a piece of wood with a straight edge. I would use MDF or similar. Use the square to draw a right-angled line. Flip the body so it's pointing the other way. Draw another square line beside the first. If they match, it's square. If not, clear, repair or ditch. he yellow one is a speed square. It's square, or not. No adjustment. Test it. I use them as a guide for cross curring.

[@jerrybobteasdale]

Those combination squares can be fine-tuned. Use a fine file and sandpaper. It's a finicky job, but it's doable. But yeah, I agree with Colin. I have some squares that I baby, and really trust. And I have others that get tossed around, and are good enough for most tasks. The square that's by the welder, is the most abused, and stays by the welder. The table saw has a better square nearby. Etc. And none of them are wooden. I don't trust those, altho they are pretty.

[@knecht105]

Thanks for the tip Duke, and thanks for watching!

[@yetanotherperson6436]

I was a stone mason and we used all steel flat squares. They used to go out of square after a while. Possibly because they were cold in winter then very warm in doors or in the sun , but I am guessing.

[@SteS]

Bought a Starrett combination square which is a 3 piece set 2nd hand in mint condition for 60€ on Amazon. Best steal ever. To buy new 150€!

[@oneeyedphotographer]

2:19 I know that as a combination square. That brass pin has nothing to do with its being square or not, that's determined by the body of the square. If it's not square on purchase, it's faulty. If it's not square later, there might be some dirt in it, it ight be worn out. Just check it before measuring something important.

[@FirstFiveFrets]

I use a Nobex square. It is a brilliant design that ensures accuracy. I have dropped mine on occasion and it remains dead square. I check mine on a dead flat surface with a dead flat edge. Draw a line with the body left and then with the body right while matching the line at the edge. Any difference means it is not square and if shown, will be double the amount out of square.

[@jusb1066]

of the several squares ive had over the years, the one i bought with the most inaccuracy was a large one piece steel square, i had to throw it away, ive had rabone wood/steel try squares for decades that have remained perfectly solid and square, each to his own, always check your squares when you buy and often. i also had one of those combination squares, it was never accurate and was also thrown, i had not checked it and only realized it was out when i did some bad work

[@heinswanepoel7344]

Thank you. I feel pretty dumb now. I used my tri-squares on my projects and in the end its not as perfect as I intended it to be.

[@knecht105]

Hein Swanepoel Hey ... no need to feel dumb, many of us (including me) have learned the hard way that the cheaper tri-squares aren't always that accurate for finer woodworking. Of course the expensive ones are, but not many of us are willing to spend $200+/- on them. Thanks for your comments, you echo the thoughts of many of us :)

[@nicholassmerk]

Thanks Colin. I have a Starrett tri-square and always double guess it's accuracy. I'll have to check it sometime. I don't think it's aluminum.

[@fibiger12]

its most likely cast iron. and you can alwas adjust it. but it should accurate

[@janfilbeck6376]

I didn't understand why the pencil mark, 4:00 , was inaccurate. Not sure why you compared it to marking with a crowbar because I always use a pencil. This video was very informative! And I love the antique hand drill in your logo. I learned to drill with one just like that which belonged to my great grandpa!

[@GardenBushcrafter]

Just bought a set of Engineers Square. Glad that I didn't go for the combination tri-square with bubbles.

[@tubthumper1964]

+GM0MOP a combination square is just as accurate as a engineers square however the only ones to get get are starett, rabone and the stanly cast iron version as they now own rabone they are machinists squares and very very accurate

[@kellerrobert80]

I would also recommend PEC and Mitutoyo. These are pricey but you only cry once.

[@JCHCREACIONES]

interesting , never thought of that, i rather to use steel squares, they last longer and are more accurate. thanks for sharing

[@knecht105]

You're welcome! Thanks for watching.

[@daviddaddy]

I have a Question, The tool Ive always known as a Combination Square, i hear you calling it a Try square. Now heres my confusion does it have two names? i thought a try square looked like just an L Shaped device to measure with, with one thicker shorter handle. Great videos by the Way i Love them.

[@artheen4713]

Don't believe what he says, it's ignorance presented as truth. A try square has a fixed blade of a material that doesn't bend, a thicker handle so it can register against a surface, and can try both an inside and an outside square. A combination square has a sliding head like a T square, but a head with a 45 degree angle on one side. They don't have an outside square, but often have other extra functionality, including ruler markings, bubble levels, and a scribing awl embedded in the handle. The two have different uses, and almost every woodworker will have and use both. There are also try squares with an additional 45 degree surface, and T squares which have a sliding head but not a 45 degree mitre angle. The steel squares he advocates are useful if you need to mark a square in the middle of a surface, and not the edge. Like construction work, coupled with a plumb bob. For edges, they're the worst choice of all, given that they don't register, and bend under their own weight.

[@richjohnson1263]

I think that Colin is expressing a lot of observational wisdom. I've know machinists and carpenters. A carpenter keeps his tools in a big tool box with all kinds of tools thrown in together. A machinist will have a dedicated drawer and space for each and every tool he owns. Machinist's tools almost never touch unless it's intentionally. A carpenter treats his tools rough. A machinist treats his tools like the precision instruments they are. A machinist square in a carpenters tool box has little chance of remaining square. My father taught me "never drop a tool". If you can fine tune a steel square with a little dimple, why wouldn't a little ding throw a square off. The combination/tri square should be fine, until your first oops.

[@ianmathieson65]

The arguments about naming of squares and their make and associated accuracy miss the point Colin is trying to make, namely that it is wise never to assume a square is accurate without checking it. If its out of square, correct it or at least don’t rely on it. If its truly square, no matter how cheap or expensive it is, or what make it is, continue to use it. My experience mirrors Colin’s very closely: My combination square was inaccurate the instant I bought it - it was inexpensive but I couldn’t afford a top quality one - but the important point is that I checked it before using it. I now only use it for depth or width measurement or setting a width for scribing a line parallel with the straight edge of a board or a piece of timber, for which it’s very useful. If I want accuracy I use an engineer’s square of which I have a set of three sizes. The protractor which is part of my combination square has a serious zero error so I only use it after setting it against a part with a known angle which I wish to duplicate. My steel framing square was significantly out of square when I bought it but again, I didn’t assume, and checked it and then corrected it using a robust centre punch and a hammer. It’s now accurate. Colin is correct when he says he’s seen people on KZbin using a combination square to check a right-angled corner. I too have seen this and had the same reaction because sometimes its obvious from the appearance of the tool that its a low cost item but like him, I bet they’ve just accepted it without thinking to check it. Thank you, Colin for highlighting the need to check rather than merely assume. And as you said in your video, if you find its accurate, just continue to use it, no matter how little you paid for it. I would add to recheck it from time to time because of the effects of wear and tear, especially if you drop it!

[@jimcooney9019]

good video just make sure everything's calibrated